One phrase that always sticks in my craw: referring to a married woman's former name as "Maiden"

[pink-o]

Look, I realize that sometimes when we zone in on semantics instead of issues, it's like putting a band aid on a cut while the patient is hemorrhaging. But I really hate this: I still have my ***birth*** name, thank you, and I haven't been a maiden for 42 years. If Miss is offensive to unmarried women, then we need to get rid of this maiden crap tout de suite!

Thanks for the rant platform.

Sincerely,
Anja, AKA Pink-O

[JustAnotherGen]

1. Eh

I call it my maiden name . . .

[mimi85]

125. Doesn't bother me

in the least. On my list of things to be pissed about, that would be about 943. As Joe would say, BFD.

[Robb]

2. Refer people to your freonoma.

Should smooth things out.

On edit: freonAma.

[Comrade Grumpy]

49. Sounds like a form of air conditioning cancer.

[CrispyQ]

62. That made me laugh.

[geek tragedy]

3. It is an anachronism, for sure.

But, most people these days don't even consider, let alone know, the meaning of 'maiden.'

Of course, this gets resolved by women just keeping their names in marriage.

[brewens]

44. I know a guy that never got over his wife not taking his name. If you knew what it was you

wouldn't blame her. One of those that is kind of hard to pronounce and the actual pronunciation is reminiscent of something gross. That was really offensive to him and would'cha know, the marriage didn't last long. she was also from a very large and well known family from my area. I'm not sure how much that figured in her decision.

That's one of those things that couldn't matter less to me. At some point, some ancestor or his lord kind of just made up what my last name should be anyway, wtf do I care? Maybe I'd prefer switching to my wifes name?

[geek tragedy]

45. If the guy never got over his wife not taking his name, probably

not a good match to begin with.

[Bay Boy]

85. Women keeping their birth name is cool with me...

...I personally hate hyphenated names. Mary Dzieduszycki-Kleszczynska is one I just made up but I'm sure there are people running around with names like that.

[seabeyond]

4. good post. thank you. you are right. words matter. nt

[Gidney N Cloyd]

5. How do you feel about 'spinster'?

[Helen Reddy]

8. Bring "spinster" back

to our diurnal lexicon.

It is not the negative it has been portrayed to be.

[niyad]

10. as long as we are talking mary daly's definition:

reclaim the word 'spinster'
Mary Daly's definition

‘Mary Daly’s definition for Spinning: “Discovering the lost thread of connectedness within the cosmos and reparing this thread in the process; whirling and twirling the threads of Life on the axis of Spinsters’ own be-ing.” And the definition of Spinster: “a woman whose occupation is to Spin, to participate in the whirling movement of creation; one who has chosen her Self, who defines her Self by choice neither in relation to children nor to men; one who is Self-identified; a whirling dervish, Spiraling in New Time/Space.’

. . . . .


Spinning

The creative, celebratory and critical process is Spinning. The term aptly captures the spiralling motion, the dizziness one might feel engaged in such a process. It is a process which occurs on the boundaries of patriarchal society, for Daly affirms that it is impossible to fully separate oneself from that society. Yet Spinning issues forth into the void beyond, creating new spaces, new galaxies and new times. Often, Daly's phrasing sounds much like science fiction. She speaks of intergalactic and time travels, of leaping from world to world, and of the menaces of necro-technology. In a sense, this description is appropriate. From within the patriarchal system, these tales are mere flights of fancy. But from the margins, looking out, it is the creation and dis-covery/un-covering of new landscapes of being and meaning. It is the existential and semantic construction of a reality beyond and below patriarchy, the outward manifestation of gynergy, the fundamental power of women to be and to construct meaning.

The creation of meaning occurs on the boundaries and margins of patriarchal society, Unable to fully divest themselves of the old boys' semantic network, Sisters and Spinsters are free to laugh out loud at their ridiculous lies. Daly and her fellow Cronies re-member archaic meanings of words and unlock their creative potential. They affirm themselves as Crones, the Wild Women burned as Witches for their Wisdom. They proudly claim the title Spinster as they weave new texts and a new fabric of reality from what threads they may salvage from the torn tunic of phallic fallacy. Free to Be and to Name, they place emphasis where they will, not respecting the capitalizations and pomposity of androcentric verse.

Through the liberation of the powers of meaning present in language, Daly and other Wild Women outwardly Spin a new space and time in which to inhabit. In Spinning, they sew up the bonds of Sisterhood and support one another in their ongoing Be-ing, thereby creating a sense of Be-Longing, both with one another and with the universe. This Sisterhood is the vehicle of women's' salvation, and indeed of cosmic renewal, for it extends to not only human Sisters, but Mother Earth Herself. Together, they spin a complex web of interconnected meaning which respects the wholeness and integrity of all within that network. This spinning is also an internal process, for it binds up the fragments of the divided self which has been shattered by patriarchy. It is both the internal impetus to move forward into new galaxies of thought and life, as well as the gyroscope which provides a sense of balance.

. . . .

http://people.bu.edu/wwildman/bce/daly.htm

[Helen Reddy]

14. Right on! n/t

[CrispyQ]

65. I loved reading that!

Thanks for posting!

[Luminous Animal]

137. Mad props to Mary Daly.

[pink-o]

11. Well considering I don't own a spinning wheel and get my yarn at Beverly's like everyone else...

I don't feel it applies. And it's not a word used to describe single women very often (Maybe Mitt Romney still uses it).

The Maiden thing is different. A maiden is technically a virgin or a very young, naive girl. It sounds immature and condescending. Like calling a grown man a Lad or a Boy. They would hate that, wouldn't they?

[TwilightGardener]

6. Worse than the word "maiden", I hate "matron".

Now that I'm of matronly age. Why do women get classified by their ages and marital status and men don't?

[Nye Bevan]

9. Ever hear the term "confirmed bachelor"? (nt)

[TwilightGardener]

27. I don't think that gets used very much, does it? It also doesn't imply something

negative, like frumpiness, middle-aged spread, dowdiness.

[alcibiades_mystery]

35. Confirmed bachelor was code

It doesn't really mean "unmarried older man" in general.

Like, for example, Liberace was a confirmed bachelor, ahem.

[SoCalDem]

103. don't forget Lindsey Graham

He's also a confirmed bachelor.. I feel sorry that he is too afraid to admit that he's a single gay man

[Frustratedlady]

15. I've heard some men called Old Farts, does that count?

In my many, many years, I've heard us called all kinds of things, but I think Ms. got to me more than anything. I don't know why. I guess it's because I was happily married and proud of it, so I went by Mrs.

I guess I'm just too busy with life to get my b/p up over titles. Welllll, a couple might burn me, but, fortunately, I've never been called those.

Life is too short to get my panties in a wad over so many issues. Can't we all respect each other and quit the name calling/silly titles?

I am WOMAN, he is MAN.

[TwilightGardener]

22. No, there should be an equivalent "polite" word like matron, or matronly--

for middle aged or older men who are looking their age. Just to be fair.

[uppityperson]

26. Coot or Curmudgeon?

[TwilightGardener]

29. No...unless wedding parties have a "Coot of Honor", or "Best Coot", it's not

quite the same.

[Nye Bevan]

30. Silver fox? (nt)

[TwilightGardener]

36. Ha! What man wouldn't want to be called a silver fox?

As opposed to a middle aged/older woman being called "matronly"--ouch.

[Hestia]

53. Saffire, the Uppity Blues Women, has a great song for older women - Silver Beaver

in answer to Red Rooster. I took my mom to one of their shows and she was so embarrassed by the 1920s sexual innuendo songs. I think their songs are great!

[onpatrol98]

105. Hmm...matron was a female head nurse,wasn't it?

But, a guy was just a nurse.

[muriel_volestrangler]

120. Actually, the men are called 'matrons' too

eg

MENTION the word matron and the image conjured up would probably be Hattie Jacques from the Carry On films stalking through the hospital corridors in her blue uniform, striking fear into nurses and patients alike.So when Ivan Graham became Peterborough's first-ever male matron, he had steeled himself for all the jokes.

But to his surprise, his appointment as one of Peterborough and Stamford Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust's 10 matrons has barely raised an eyebrow – although he did have to get a uniform custom made.

Ivan said: "They did not actually have one for a man. they had the tops and dresses for women, so I had to make do with my whites until we ordered a new one.

"I am incredibly proud to be here, and I haven't received any stick about it.

http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/features/meet-peterborough-s-first-male-matron-1-126489

It is the official title, for a man or a woman.
http://nursingcareers.nhsemployers.org/browse-segments/acute-and-critical-care/level-8-management/matron-%28acute-care%29.aspx
However, a 'sister' is called a 'charge nurse' when he's a man:
http://nursingcareers.nhsemployers.org/browse-segments/acute-and-critical-care/level-7-management/ward-sistercharge-nurse.aspx

[Major Nikon]

64. I just want to know how old I have to be for the title "dirty old man"

My wife seems to think I'm already there.

[niyad]

23. crone here, and damned proud of it

[TwilightGardener]

25. LOL, that's another one.

[valerief]

80. Geezer is usually applied only to men. I'd rather be a matron than a geezer. nt

[JI7]

129. Because it started when Women were seen as Property of Men

which is why i hate those different terms.

[niyad]

7. semantics ARE part of the issue, not a distraction. words matter, the power of naming matters,

and it is very important, so do not let people tell you otherwise.


I point out that it is not a "maiden" name, but one's father's name. I have my own name, and have used MS since the first day I saw it. my relationship status is nobody's business but mine.

[pink-o]

20. You're right about our birth names being patriarchal...

But my dad's culture is actually a large part of my identity, and since I grew up with this name I feel okay with it. I could totally understand if a woman called herself Mary X, though. We have as much justification to reject our names as African Americans.

But it's funny how certain elements of society who can detect the slightest bit of racism don't see sexism (or ageism as it relates to sexism) at all.

[Nye Bevan]

12. I always think that it's a good sign to see rants like this in DU.

Because really, if this is the biggest problem people have to rant about, everything else must be going pretty well, in general.

[FSogol]

18. Definitely a 1st World Problem.

"I think they should stop saying that; the way to a man's heart is through his stomach, since many of those kids will go into medical school and it would be quite disastrous if a young medical intern thought that the quickest way to do open heart surgery was to open the stomach. -- Bob and Ray

[niyad]

19. a typical dismissal of the importance of the power of naming, but, alas, completely unsurprising.

[Helen Reddy]

37. Easy to dismiss

issues when they don't pertain to you.

[niyad]

38. exactly

[pipi_k]

94. What about the women

it does pertain to, who aren't getting themselves all foaming at the mouth over it?

Are they/we just too stupid to understand the importance of this?

As someone else stated, when something like this becomes so important, it's got to be a really good sign that there's nothing else worth getting hyped up about.

Maybe after my mom has her cancer surgery this coming Thursday I can get back to worrying about things that truly matter.

Like how offended someone is by the term "maiden name".

sigh...

[Helen Reddy]

95. Hoping your mom recovers fully! n/t

[Squinch]

132. Who is foaming at the mouth? OP said she doesn't like it. That's not foaming at the mouth.

I think cooking and baking aren't exactly THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS, yet lots of people here love to talk about them. And that's allowed, even though it doesn't rise to the level of importance of your mother's cancer surgery. Most things don't.

The OP is making an observation. Not foaming.

Good luck with your mother.

[uppityperson]

28. I always think it's funny to see concerns derided out of an inability to multitask. eom

[Nye Bevan]

32. Not derided. Encouraged. It's always interesting to see what people are most concerned about (nt)

[niyad]

39. and you have dismissed those concerns as being insignificant and not serious. but, as I said,

not in the least surprising.

[pink-o]

93. When did I say I was MOST concerned about this, Sir?

I am actually far more concerned about Climate Change, overpopulation, crazy Fundies undermining our constitution and unnecessary wars for profit. I think I pretty well implied that when I parsed the metaphor about cuts and hemmorhages.

I find the idea of my unmarried name being known as 'Maiden' to be as condescending as you might if they called you a Lad or a tyke. Hope that clears it up.

[Squinch]

128. LOL!

[LanternWaste]

102. What specifically leads you to believe that concern with one issue denies the existence...

What specifically leads you to believe that concern with one issue denies the existence of concern for any other issues?

Additionally, what specifically leads you to believe that voicing concern about an issue results in that issue issue being the de-facto primary concern for the person voicing concerns?

[Helen Reddy]

13. Women have no name

of our own (in many cases.)

Either many carry their husbands' last name or if not, still have their fathers' last name.

I, also, have changed my name legally to hold and have as my own. Wish more women would consider this, it is freeing.

[niyad]

21. that is what I did

[Helen Reddy]

24. I knew I loved ya!

From alllll the way over here.

[niyad]

34. right back at you!!!

[REP]

83. So did I, back when I was 15 or so

(and when it was much easier to do so). The only legal document I have that doesn't carry the name I use is my birth certificate.

[Helen Reddy]

98. How cool!

Have you had any issues regarding the different name on your birth certificate? Did you emancipate at 15?

I'm a nosy rascal aren't I? I won't be offended if these questions are none of my beeswax.

[REP]

106. No, I didn't emancipate

And knock wood, I haven't had a problem, but I think that's because my SSN lists both names (I had it changed at Social Security first). My driver's license, marriage license, etc are all under the name I've used for over 30 years. Way back then, I used the Common Use law, and signed an affidavit to have the name on my first driver's license (since then, that's my primary proof of who I am).

My brother changed his as well; I'm not sure if he went all the way and changed his birth certificate (I haven't) or is just 'open and notorious' or Common Use. We both use names for our mother's family.

[Helen Reddy]

107. Thank you.

I'll knock on some wood for you as well.

[d_r]

16. you are right

it sounds like something from one of the Game of Thrones books

[Warren Stupidity]

17. My spouse kept her name and our kids

Are hyphens. Egalitarianism starts at home.

[GobBluth]

40. How does that work when your kids get married and have kids?

Just wondering. I'm doing my amateur genealogy right now, and this thread is freaking me out. lol. I actually have a great great grandmother, born 1850, who went by her "maiden" name, even after she married. Made it easy to pick her out on censuses, but search engines hate it. I know people shouldn't keep or take names based on genealogical research, lol, but damn if I am feeling a little bad for the generations to come who get into it. It's hard enough trying to research women, but if you can get that awesome marriage/death cert that has their parents listed, you've hit gold.

I do wonder how many awesome news articles I am missing out on with my female ancestors. Papers would always call them Mrs. Fred Smith, and again, search engines seem to hate it.

[Warren Stupidity]

43. It's up to my children.

But they could, for example, just choose one from each.

[MineralMan]

31. I prefer birth name.

So does my wife, who still uses it as her last name. We never could see why she'd want to change her last name to mine. It doesn't reflect her history, and last names should do that. More and more women are doing that, and the questions about it have completely stopped now.

[Auntie Bush]

48. My daughter kept her birth name...I was very happy...husband was reluctantly OK with that.

Her in-laws went along after expressing their shock & disappointment. I think we all should have a choice of picking our birth name OR our married name. I personally prefer my married name.

One think I HATE is the use of Miss or Ms or Mrs. I prefer using only our name. Who needs to know if we're married or not? Men don't change theirs so why should we?

[MineralMan]

50. I agree on the Miss/Ms/Mrs thing, too.

I don't use any of them. A person has a name. I address mail to a person, so I use that person's name. So-called "honorifics" are simply irrelevant labels.

What I dislike the most, though, is the old-fashioned address format for married women: Mrs. Alfred E. Newman. Stripping a woman of her real name has never seemed appropriate or desirable to me, and I refuse to use that format, always.

[Auntie Bush]

67. Same here

I never use Mrs (husbands name)...I've only used my own name. I think it's insulting!
What about Me? I'm somebody! I'm not an extension of him.

[Bay Boy]

88. Along this line of thought...

...I occasionally talk to older women who are calling to have a furnace checked and I may say "I will have the tech call you back and let you know when he can be out there for you, what is your name?" And they sometimes reply "Jack Smith". It just leaves me scratching my head. I asked one woman "Do you want them to schedule it through your husband?" and her reply was "No, call me, he died ten years ago". I want to say "Then WTH did you say YOUR name was Jack Smith?"

[niyad]

114. "husband and wife are one under the law--and that one is the husband"--blackwell

[pink-o]

89. Oh yeah totally agree!

Talk about treating someone like property and undermining her identity! Nothing does that better than Mrs John Smith

[CrispyQ]

70. I refer to it as my surname. And I kept mine when I got married.

sur·name (sûrnm)
n.
1. A name shared in common to identify the members of a family, as distinguished from each member's given name. Also called family name, last name.
2. A nickname or epithet added to a person's name.

My husband occasionally gets called Mr. Q.

[MineralMan]

74. Yes, that happens to me a lot.

"Can I speak to Mr. Y(wife's last name.)?"

"Sorry," I say. "No person of that name lives here." Sometimes, I say, "No, my wife's father died some years ago." The calls are always telemarketers anyhow, if they ask that question.

Our return address labels simply have our names on them. Both of our names. Nobody seems to mind that our last names are different. If they do, they don't mention it.

[a la izquierda]

131. I changed my last name...

as I've had a very ambivalent relationship with my father.
We are referred to as Mr. & Dr. _______________. My middle name is my former surname.

[raccoon]

33. For that matter, how about brides wearing white for virginity, throwing rice at a couple who's

practicing birth control, or newlyweds going on honeymoons?

I have my birth name too. I've thought of changing it, but don't think it's worth the trouble at this point.

[slackmaster]

41. A true First World problem

[LanternWaste]

108. Like Social Security.

Like Social Security.

[dkf]

42. Your birth name may not be the same as your maiden name.

You could have been adopted or changed your name.

Asking for your maiden name is more precise.

[Cleita]

54. Wrong. If you aren't adopted, it's accurate.

If you are adopted you can call it your family name. If you change it either legally or by marriage, you really don't need to apologize about it if you are presently using it. I'm a widow but still use my married name. I don't have to explain it anyone.

[dkf]

59. So if you change your name at age 30 that becomes your birth name? Really?

[Cleita]

60. How did you change it?

Marriage? Everyone knows you are a Mrs. If by the courts, you still have a birth name. Other wise why would you need to explain it to anyone? I guess you could call it your legal name.

[dkf]

136. No that was your former legal name.

My uncle changed his name after college. All his high school friends still call him by his birth name while his college and work friends call him by the name he selected as an adult.

That caused confusion and hassles when I was trying to settle his estate as he had assets in both names so it's nice to be able to differentiate between the two.

[99Forever]

46. Yeah...

... that's really worth getting worked up into a lather over. When will the atrocities end?

[KamaAina]

47. I usually call it her "real name"

Last edited Mon Mar 4, 2013, 12:58 PM - Edit history (1)

or her "proper name".

[Nye Bevan]

57. Inaccurate. If the cops ask you what your "real name" is,

and you legally changed it upon marriage, your "real name" is your married name.

[Comrade Grumpy]

51. Okay. Fair enough. Now what?

[Cleita]

52. I just object to the word maiden as if my sex life is any one's business.

I always referred to my surname before marriage as my birth name. Actually, I would never have changed it when I married except that I liked my husband's surname better than mine.

[Nye Bevan]

55. I don't really think that the term "maiden name" has sexual connotations.

It simply means your name prior to marriage. Which, as a poster above pointed out, may or may not be the same as your "birth name".

[Cleita]

56. The word maiden has sexual connotations. It means you are an unmarried virgin.

If you are no longer a virgin, you aren't a maiden. The word just needs to go out of the English language as a medieval relic.

[Nye Bevan]

58. How about a white wedding dress? Does that connote virginity? (nt)

[Cleita]

61. Nice straw man.

No one is discussing the color of wedding dresses.

[Nye Bevan]

72. Actually, they are. See post #33.

And I am very much in favor of white wedding dresses. For first-time brides, obviously.

[Squinch]

133. Well, then, by all means you should wear one. And those who don't see the point

should do what they want to as well.

[pipi_k]

66. I think that needs to be

adjusted just a little bit to reflect the times.

Twenty-first Century, and all.

It meant unmarried virgin.

If anyone these days still thinks that, well...I guess "naive" is probably too mild a word for them.

[Cleita]

71. Wrong.

If a woman was married but her marriage unconsummated she was still called a maiden, in fiction anyway. I've been reading the Fire and Ice Series, which Game of Thrones is based on. Margaery is married to Renly, but Renly is gay so the marriage is not consummated before he is killed. In the book she is referred to as "still a maiden" even though married. It's important because the Queen and the King's Hand want to marry her to King Joffrey.

[pipi_k]

87. OK, so now

we are not only operating from a POV outside the scope of the 21st Century, we are also basing someone's title on a set of Fantasy novels?

Seriously?

[Cleita]

92. Fantasy novels like all fiction and non-fiction alike have to be grammatically correct

or they don't get published. That's one of the jobs of the editors, to find all spelling, grammar, and punctuation errors, and to make sure the words used are correct for their meaning.

[pipi_k]

97. What does that have to do

with what is, or is not, part of the belief of the real world?

Whatever words being used in that series of books apply to a fictional world. Or a world, at the very least, that no longer exists today.

"Maiden name", in the 21st Century, does not automatically label the woman a virgin.

And "Miss" does not automatically mean the woman is unmarried.

I got called "Miss" a whole lot, up till around the age of 45 or so, even though I had been married 3 times. I think it's charming.

But that's not my point. My point is that some people who don't like certain words think it's OK to tell others what "WE" have to do about those words.

Ummmm.....no.

[Cleita]

100. If you want to make up definitions for words, go ahead.

This is how new languages are created, but it doesn't change the definitions of the old language. We don't speak Latin anymore but used many Latin derived words in English.

[pipi_k]

104. It's not the definition

here.

It's how the term is viewed in this day and age.

If a maiden means young or unmarried woman, then that's what it means.

But I think it's reasonable to say that most adults living in the real world don't automatically assume that maidens are "virginal" no matter what the definition says.

FGS, we can't even assume that all 12 year old girls are virgins!

And again...that aside...

I can see someone being offended by the term, but I can't see where someone would think they have the right to use the word "we" in a rant to do away with words that aren't offensive to many in the "target" group.

[Comrade Grumpy]

109. The meaning of the word has drifted over the centuries. Here's a contemporary dictionary entry:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/maiden

maid·en/ˈmeɪdn/ Show Spelled [meyd-n] Show IPA
noun
1. a girl or young unmarried woman; maid.
2. a horse that has never won a race.
3. a race open only to maiden horses.
4. an instrument resembling the guillotine, formerly used in Scotland for beheading criminals.
5. Cricket. maiden over.

Words change over time.

[Cleita]

111. I don't see the meaning has changed at all.

According to your definitions, its a female who hasn't been broken in whether referring to a human or a horse.

[Comrade Grumpy]

115. Not my definitions, and you claimed maiden meant "virgin."

That dictionary entry doesn't even mention virgins.

Maybe if you didn't base your claim on reading medieval-style fictions you would have done better.

You're really stretching here. Just admit that you were wrong to claim that maiden is currently used to mean virgin.

[Cleita]

117. Whatever.

Maiden means a virgin. It comes to us from German or mädchen meaning a young girl or a young woman who is a virgin as contrary to fraulein which is merely an unmarried woman.

[Comrade Grumpy]

118. You're just one letter off: Maiden mean[t] virgin. It doesn't anymore.

As I said in my original reply to you, the meanings of words drift over time. That's what has happened with "maiden." Why you continue to insist that it means what you wish it did instead of how it is actually used these days is a bit beyond me.

Wiktionary defines "madchen" as:

Noun
Mädchen n. (genitive Mädchens, plural Mädchen)

1. girl
2. maiden

Not "virgin," for what it's worth.

I have said all I have to say on this topic.

[Cleita]

121. I think I'm right and you think you are right so let's end it. n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

119. It's earliest recorded use in English is as a translation of 'puella'

which is the Latin for 'girl', not 'virgin' (which is 'virgo'). From Ælfric's Glossary, written around 998, according to the Oxford English Dictionary and Dictionary of National Biography.

[Cleita]

122. Excuse me but since I had to study both Latin and German in school, by

what stretch of etymology can you equate the two? Puella just means girl like a little girl who is not a woman. It has nothing to do with Virgin or the German word we derived our word maiden from.

[muriel_volestrangler]

127. Take it up with Ælfric

Oh, you can't, because he was writing English over a thousand years ago. Nevertheless, his Glossary said to translate 'puella' as 'maiden'. As I said, that's the first written use of 'maiden' in English. This is the point - 'maiden' does not just mean 'virgin', and that has been the case for over a thousand years.

And, while I'm about it, I studied German too. They use 'Mädchen' for 'girl', when there's no question of it being like 'virgin', eg for Quvenzhane Wallis:

http://www.rtl.de/cms/news/exclusiv/oscar-2013-quvenzhane-wallis-stellt-einen-neuen-rekord-auf-2a892-8e15-22-1379889.html

[pipi_k]

63. As the quote goes...

"A rose by any other name..."

This, for me, is a total non-issue. I have a maiden name. I also have a married name, which I'm just as proud of.

And there were two other married names as well.

Did having three married names plus a maiden name change who I was?

Not one bit.

So my opinion is, women who don't like the term "maiden name" have every right to dislike it.

But I do wonder what is behind this "WE need to get rid of this maiden crap..."

If Miss is offensive to unmarried women, then we need to get rid of this maiden crap tout de suite!

This is about as ridiculous as me saying that just because I don't like the word "panties", it has to be eradicated from the English language, or that people need to remember that they aren't supposed to use that particular word in my presence.

[Squinch]

134. So is this OP what people are talking about when they say that others are telling them

how to think? Because if it is, that's pretty funny.

[Tree-Hugger]

68. Wait..."Miss" is offensive, too?

I can't keep track of all the things that are supposed to offend me these days.

[Major Nikon]

69. Some women are offended by it

I don't use it.

[CountAllVotes]

81. in the old south

Women are often referred to as Miss Cathy, etc.

Miss Cathy may or may not be married.

It's sort of a courtesy way of addressing women is some parts of the USA.

I kind of like it ...

[pipi_k]

84. Me neither

and it gets even worse when we're supposed to keep track of what offends other people.

I mean, we already know the really bad stuff we're not supposed to say.

But it's the little nit-picky shit that makes me want to say, "Screw this I'm never going to leave the house or talk to another human being again EVER!!!"

[lynne]

73. I took back my maiden name after I divorced -

- and retained it after I remarried. The term "maiden" doesn't bother me and I use it interchangeably with "birth". Being called "Miss" doesn't bother me, either.

As far as what surname was used for my children, each child has the surname of their father no matter which marriage the child was a product of or what surname I carried at that time. Told my children that I carry my fathers surname and they will each carry the surname of their own father. It worked very well.

[wildeyed]

75. I got into it with a DMV employee over a similar issue once.

My husband and I had just moved to a new city and were applying for driver's licenses. I never changed my name when I got married. The DMV worker looked at my form and then asked in a rude tone of voice what may married name was. I told her that WAS my married name and gave her a look that shut her up.

[CountAllVotes]

76. Kept my "maiden" name

My late father informed me that no finer of a surname could I have than this one. Luckily, I believed him and I kept it only to find out he was absolutely right of course!

[HockeyMom]

82. My daughter hyphenates her birth and married names

I know this is a custom in the Hispanic culture and I think it is wonderful. A woman shouldn't have to lose her identity when she marries.

As a genealogist, I especially love this!

[CountAllVotes]

99. As a genealogist, I especially love this!

Me too!

Makes it a lot easier to find "us" out there in those records.

I use both names as when you marry you are also an aka.

I used the married name for awhile and switched back.

Hence, I have three possibilities (and potential aliases ... ) .

[Drale]

77. Well its just semantics

last names in general started as a description of your career, Smith, Carpenter ex. The meanings of words change over time, very rarely do you hear someone refer to a virgin girl as a maiden anymore. Little known fact, the word nothing used to refer to a womens vagina because compared to men they had nothing there but now we use that word everyday meaning a lack of anything in a certain place.

[MadrasT]

78. I don't like the term either. Never have.

I refer to it as my birth name.

[valerief]

79. Let's do away with maidenhead, too. It's got nothing to do with the head. nt

[LibertyLover]

86. It doesn't bother me a bit

I've got other things to worry about. I didn't take my husband's name when we married, but rather kept my maiden name because where I work, I was reasonably well known and to have taken another name would have been a difficult for some people, that and I like it better than my husband's last name. He had no objections. I dislike the terms Miss and Ms. but will use Ms. because it's useful. I don't use the word Mrs. and the one time I got called "Mrs. Husband's last name" by a surgeon who had just operated on him, I didn't answer immediately because it didn't register. He was annoyed when I finally came up to the waiting room desk. I simply smiled and said I was First Name Last Name, Husband's name's wife. I saw him glancing down at the ring finger to see if I had a wedding band on - I did. So he gave me the update on my husband's condition and left. I never saw him again, but my husband told me later that he had walked back to the recovery room and told my husband he had married an interesting woman - at least that's what my husband told me .

[bamacrat]

90. I don't get whey Miss or Maiden bothers anyone.

I get calling it your birth name, but I don't see the deal with Miss??? But, as I type this I was about to ask how else would you decipher between married and non married women, but then the question of why popped into my mind. It's a tradition thing I guess, but men are MR. married or not... hmmm.

[pink-o]

96. So you don't think Maiden conjures up images

Of young medieval virgins giggling in the fields making daisy chains?

Well that's your prerogative and I would never shout you down if you used it. I personally, as a 6'1" 58 year old divorced woman do NOT appreciate any part of my identity referred to as Maiden

[bamacrat]

112. No, I never gave much thought to the word..

But it did dawn on me while typing the last response that why do we even have to signify married and non married women and not men. I think a lot of the removing gender specifiers people go over board, but the Miss/Mrs thing is a little dated and Ms. would be most appropriate.

[Gormy Cuss]

91. Maiden pink-o, it's just a word. Don't get worked up over it.

Semantics don't matter. You're being overly sensitive about this. And by the way, "Miss" is a choice and I'll thank you for not speaking for me on this topic.


(yeah, I'm being sarcastic.)

[Cairycat]

101. I use my birth surname and often tell people

(especially older people) that my husband and I both "kept our maiden names". That usually lightens the mood.

I sometimes get a little impatient with being referred to as "Mrs. Birthname" or "Mrs. Husbandsname", but I just correct it to "Ms. Birthname" and carry on.

[pipi_k]

110. Just one more thing

before I trash this thread, because, quite frankly, it's getting really stupid and I'm allowing it to occupy too much of my time and energy....

I have a deep voice. That means if someone can't see me...like on the phone...they tend to call me "sir".

So, with regards to this whole "Miss" nonsense, I can't count the number of times I've been called "Sir".

Being called "Miss"...even at 60, is a huge plus.

At least the gender is correct.

That's it.

Have a blast.

[HiPointDem]

113. 112 comments on this linguistic bs while congress institutes austerity = what's wrong with the

modern democratic party.

[GreenStormCloud]

116. I suspect that most people don't even know what "Maiden" means. N/T

[Nye Bevan]

126. Except in the context of "iron" (nt)

[Scout]

123. if i need to refer to it at all, i use "birth name"

and from a young age have been using Ms. ... single, married, divorced, married ... i'm still Ms.

[TroglodyteScholar]

124. Get a bigger craw, then...

...really.

[unblock]

130. i especially don't like it as a man who changed his name upon marriage.

during my first marriage, we both changed our name to a new name, which was just our two one-syllable names together, without hyphen. conveniently, it "worked". this was over a quarter century ago, but the state of massachusetts was advanced enough to have a place in the marriage form for "surname after marriage" for both bride and groom, so it was easy to legally do this.

getting the social security administration up to speed was another story, as was changing it back after the divorce....



in any event, we both referred to our earlier names as our "premarital" names. i think a gender-neutral term makes sense.

[Leslie Valley]

135. What sticks in my craw is those

unpopped kernels at the bottom of my popcorn bowl.