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[bigtree]

This message was self-deleted by its author (bigtree) on Sun Mar 17, 2013, 04:21 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[cantbeserious]

1. More Happy Talk - Only The 1% Are Doing Well - That Was True Before The Market Run Up

eom

[randome]

3. You cantbeserious. (Sorry, couldn't help it.)

It may depend on what region you live in. Obviously more jobs are being created. And obviously the 1% are doing better than the rest of us. But things ARE improving. And I think the GOP is losing steam and we will see more equitable tax rates soon.

Not soon enough, of course.

[cantbeserious]

8. The Economy Has Yet To Replace All The Jobs Lost In 2008

eom

[bigtree]

4. these numbers reflect gains for more than the 1%

. . . and it isn't as if there's a dearth of discussion out here about the folks still hurting.

I really don't see the purpose or value in dismissing economic news like this out of hand. It is possible to recognize the faults and challenges of our economy and still acknowledge where we've improved.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Cause part of economic growth is the willingness of people to spend

It is at the core of the engine. You dismiss that at your peril. Thankfully responsible economists are not.

[cantbeserious]

9. Walmart - The Store Everyone Hates - Had A Terrible February

eom

[bigtree]

10. maybe it's Walmart's anti-worker stance

. . . repelling consumers.

[cantbeserious]

12. Surely - One Noted That The Payroll Tax Increased by 2% In January - Cause And Effect

eom

[bigtree]

15. gas prices also increased in the same period

. . . taxes coming due; lack of holiday or seasonal business.

Besides, this report notes that overall spending hasn't taken a hit. Pointing to Walmart to refute that may be anecdotal, but it's hasn't translated in to a spending downturn across the board of U.S. businesses.

[cantbeserious]

16. Spending By US Business Is Of Little Relevance - Consumers Make Up 66% Of The US Economy

Without Consumers, There Is No Recovery!

[bigtree]

20. I didn't mean spending by businesses - spending by consumers IN those businesses

. . . although business orders in response to that consumer demand certainly play an important role.

And, don't forget about the effect of government spending.

[Ikonoklast]

17. Walmart's 'terrible February' numbers beat the next three largest retailers gross sales....combined.

Almost every retailer showed a lousy February.

You should have such a terrible month as they had.

[cantbeserious]

18. Still Indicates That The Economy Is Struggling

eom

[Ikonoklast]

19. One data point does not a trend make.

If you really want to see how the economy is faring, look to Shipping, especially spot market rates and capacity percentage rates, both up signifigantly the first quarter.

[cantbeserious]

44. Not Seeing The Trend In The Baltic Dry Index

[Ikonoklast]

45. I thought we were discussing domestic economic matters.

Look to truckload and railcar capacity, and domestic port export activity, in *this* country.

I don't care much if South Africa isn't shipping chrome ore to China on a bulk freighter.

The Baltic Dry graph shows where massive speculation in bulk commodities will get you.

[cantbeserious]

46. You Brought Up Shipping = The Baltic Dry Index Is Considered A Bell Weather Shipping Metric

eom

[HiPointDem]

47. walmart is bigger than the next largest three retailers combined, and more. so no surprise.

their sales were below trend, that's the point.

[iemitsu]

2. Amazing that regular tax payers can take a hit to the wallet

without a catastrophic hit to the economy, in fact the economy seems to be doing a bit better. Imagine what might occur if we taxed the rich? The economy would be booming.

[jsr]

5. Politicians have been purchased

to prevent such a tragedy from happening.

[bigtree]

7. that's what happened (more or less) in the Clinton years

. . . more revenue helped the economy improve. That's a no-brainer for most of us. Congress, on the other hand, lives in an alternate, fantasy, reality.

[cantbeserious]

11. Dr Doom Predicts Slow Growth Continues

[bigtree]

13. growth, nonetheless

. . . and, even he's reluctant to be overly pessimistic.


" . . . he believes a 'perfect storm' is still possible in 2013"

[cantbeserious]

14. 1% to 2% Growth in the US Economy Does Not Keep Pace With New Workers Looking For Jobs

In other words, all the unemployed workers have ever more competition.

Slow growth is no growth at the worker level.

One again, only the 1% benefit.

[bigtree]

21. no one is suggesting that we're where we need to be

. . .just that we look to be heading in the right direction. And, I'm always amazed how quickly some dismiss the jobs created. All of these effects of the economy don't all fall on just one individual. More than the 1% are benefiting; as is the case in most any recovery.

Now, if we can get these republicans to do something more than just oppose this President . . .

[cantbeserious]

26. See All Of The Additions To This Thread Below - All Happy Talk All The Time Is Not A Recovery

eom

[dkf]

33. Too Much Debt Means the Economy Can’t Grow: Reinhart and Rogoff

As public debt in advanced countries reaches levels not seen since the end of World War II, there is considerable debate about the urgency of taming deficits with the aim of stabilizing and ultimately reducing debt as a percentage of gross domestic product.
Our empirical research on the history of financial crises and the relationship between growth and public liabilities supports the view that current debt trajectories are a risk to long-term growth and stability, with many advanced economies already reaching or exceeding the important marker of 90 percent of GDP. Nevertheless, many prominent public intellectuals continue to argue that debt phobia is wildly overblown. Countries such as the U.S., Japan and the U.K. aren’t like Greece, nor does the market treat them as such.
Indeed, there is a growing perception that today’s low interest rates for the debt of advanced economies offer a compelling reason to begin another round of massive fiscal stimulus. If Asian nations are spinning off huge excess savings partly as a byproduct of measures that effectively force low- income savers to put their money in bank accounts with low government-imposed interest-rate ceilings -- why not take advantage of the cheap money?
Although we agree that governments must exercise caution in gradually reducing crisis-response spending, we think it would be folly to take comfort in today’s low borrowing costs, much less to interpret them as an “all clear” signal for a further explosion of debt.

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-14/too-much-debt-means-economy-can-t-grow-commentary-by-reinhart-and-rogoff.html


Carmen Reinhart and Kenneth Rogoff have spent countless hours studying financial crises and debt bubbles. And unfortunately for those with an upbeat economic forecast, their news is not good. For one thing, they expect growth to remain challenged for a long time, thanks in part to the aftermath of the debt binge of the 2000s. "In the advanced economies, think of trend growth being a percentage point lower for a decade more, possibly even two decades more," says Rogoff, a Harvard economics professor who in 2009 co-authored This Time Is Different, with Reinhart, who teaches about the international financial system at Harvard's John F. Kennedy School of Government. The two recently came to Manhattan, where they had a lively discussion with a Barron's editor. They agree that the proper regulatory framework to prevent another severe crisis is achievable. "But can we stay there?" Reinhart asks. For the answer to that question and many others, read on.

http://online.barrons.com/article/SB50001424052748703961304578128861988425802.html#articleTabs_article%3D1

[cantbeserious]

34. Wrong - Private Sector Debt Trumps Public Sector Debt By Far - Government Debt Is Not The Problem

Source: http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2012/01/03/the-debtwatch-manifesto/

[dkf]

36. Well that is a scary chart.

And I don't see why that proves or even supports your point.

[cantbeserious]

37. The Point Is That Public Sector Debt Is Not The Problem As Many Claim

eom

[dkf]

40. That makes no sense as a counter to the argument that

Historically large public debt is correlated to lower growth rates.

[cantbeserious]

22. Don't Be Fooled By Happy Talk

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022485057

[cantbeserious]

23. Don't Believe The Happy Talk II

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/09/dow-jones-record-high_n_2839862.html?utm_hp_ref=business&ir=Business#slide=more284591

[cantbeserious]

24. Don't Believe The Happy Talk III - Unemployment rate 14.3%

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=5da5497c-c127-4f84-b0ae-de84b5d5cd3b

[cantbeserious]

25. Don't Believe The Happy Talk IV

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/04/business/economy/corporate-profits-soar-as-worker-income-limps.html?_r=2&

[graham4anything]

27. The doom and gloom naysayers remind me of a famous LBJ quote

LBJ once famously said "If tomorrow, I walked across the water, the press (naysayers) would say LBJ can't swim".

[cantbeserious]

28. Don't Believe The Happy Talk V

http://www.democraticunderground.com/111631977

[FarCenter]

29. Once they limit unemployment benefits to 26 weeks, that will come down.

[cantbeserious]

30. Supposition With No Proof

eom

[dkf]

31. Well it will be proven or disproven soon enough.

No point in arguing it when the numbers will be coming in.

[cantbeserious]

32. Well, It Is Easy Criticism To Suggest That People Don't Look Because Of Paltry Unemployment Benefits

Probably spoken by those that have never been unemployed.

[dkf]

35. You could be proven wrong also.

[cantbeserious]

38. Probably Not Based On The Trends And Reporting To Date

eom

[FarCenter]

39. Not collecting unemployment insurance may change the way they answer the interviewer's questions

[bigtree]

41. spam much?

[cantbeserious]

42. Don't Know To What You Are Referring - Seems I Have Added The Most evidence To This Thread

eom

[cantbeserious]

43. Don't Believe The Happy Talk VI

&feature=player_embedded

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017104612