Political correctness, good or bad?

[quinnox]

I tend to be a very liberal when it comes to speech and expression. That doesn't mean I run around using filthy or rude language, far from it, but that it doesn't bother me to read it or I don't have a fit or faint due to hearing or reading something deemed "offensive". PC in a way, makes people dishonest because social pressure stops them from saying what they really think. At least if they say what they think and are honest, then it is easy to understand they are jerks or racists or whatever. If they are trying to be PC, it can allow them to hide behind it in a way, by cloaking their true feelings. Anyway, I know my take is a bit unusual, and probably not the same as most here. But I was interested in making a poll to find out!

32 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	I love political correctness!
	0 (0%)
	I think PC is a good thing in general, but can go too far sometimes.
	4 (13%)
	I\'m lukewarm toward the whole concept.
	3 (9%)
	I think PC is an artificial social construct that just promotes dishonesty.
	7 (22%)
	I am strongly against the concept of political correctness in general.
	16 (50%)
	Other (explain, if you would)
	2 (6%)
	How dare you make this poll! Questioning PC is a grave offense, you are being a disloyal citizen!
	0 (0%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[BainsBane]

2. somehow that doesn't extend to sex education in schools

Why is that?

[roxy1234]

11. I am ok with smoking

But that doesn't mean I want people to be smoking in front of my children. Sex education is schools has very little to do with political correctness. Some people prefer doing the sex ed teaching themselves.

[BainsBane]

12. You'd need to see the other thread

about Steubenville to understand the context. But if the point is about having a thicker skin, what's so threatening about kids learning that rape is not okay?

[roxy1234]

31. Oh I see

You having a thicker skin doesnt translate to your kids having a thicker skin. Btw building up a thick layer of skin takes time. You want to ease into it and not jumping into it.

Rape should be a no no, I seriously doubt any person living in the 21st century, able to have sex doesnt know that rape is wrong with or without any sex ed.

[BainsBane]

40. unfortunately

You're mistaken about that. We've even had some threads on DU by people talking about raping women in the past but not understanding it as rape. The Steubenville defense will rest on the argument that date rape doesn't exist as a form of assault, when the fact most people are raped by an assailant they know.

[roxy1234]

44. But the steubenville case is different

You can tell those kids knew they did something wrong. But now they have talked to their lawyers they will play the ignorant card but that doesnt mean they didn't know it was rape.

[BainsBane]

75. the point is not just the rapists

but everyone who enabled the crime to happen, from coaches to kids in the school, police, prosecutors, parents, most of the community. A rapist rarely acts in vacuum. He has sex with a passed out woman at a party and his friends high five him. All of that facilitates violent criminal activity.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

29. I know..... Go fuck yourself! You're right this feels liberating. nt

[Kalidurga]

3. I agree with everything you have said...

I might sound PC when I talk, but that is because it is what I think and/or feel. I am not good at censoring myself very well anyway, my filter got broken a long time ago. So, I do tend to say things that might seem insensitive. It isn't because I am trying to be mean, I will try to say what I say in a nice way. But, if someone is acting stupid I will probably make it known that I think they are acting stupid. That is about as far from being PC as you can get without being a bigot.

[backscatter712]

4. The word-police wars are one of the favorite ratfucking techniques used by the trolls.

When they want to disrupt, they start howling and shrieking about some word they find "offensive", start demanding PPRs, cause multiple threads to go diagonal...

[Nye Bevan]

63. As an animal rights activist, I find your use of the term "ratfucking" highly offensive.

Rats are actually cute little rodents and do not deserve this insult. Alerting for TOS.

[etherealtruth]

5. What some call "political correctness" ...

... others call respect or courtesy.

I am all for respect and/or courtesy in our interactions with others.

[marmar]

7. +1000

The strident anti-"PC" backlash puzzles me.

[geek tragedy]

22. Privileged people want their privilege. nt

[OriginalGeek]

115. Personally

I can be respectful and courteous without necessarily being politically correct. I think we are talking about 2 different things here.


To me ( and I am perfectly willing to be educated if my notions are way off base) PC was created by right-wingers as code so they could talk about "those people" without offending anyone that might hear them. It has morphed into something else entirely.


I don't use the N word but not because I'm PC. Good gravy I am not PC. Just ask anyone who knows me in real life. I do not use the N word because I raised in a racist culture where it was OK to use the N word and every single instance of me ever hearing it, it was used is a vicious, hateful, hurtful word. I can't personally use it because I can't separate that usage from my upbringing HOWEVER I know plenty of people who use the word differently. I hear people use it among themselves and nobody is offended or disrespected because their experience with the word is completely different from mine and I cannot apply my experience to theirs in order to judge how they use a word.

As is so often said, it's a matter of context. I don't think there is an "anti-PC" backlash as much as there is an anti-"don't consider the context" backlash. Maybe folks need to get better at explaining their context but I would rather think folks are pushing against not getting context instead of pushing against being courteous and respectful. Maybe I'm just dreaming.

[derby378]

19. Here's the problem...

When respect and courtesy are codified, etched into stone, sold to the public as "this is how to be courteous, and nothing else will do," there's going to be a backlash.

I try to be respectful of people, but I don't censor, either. There's a lot of me that is definitively un-PC, but that doesn't mean I'm some sort of monster who wants to hurt other people's feelings. Maybe I'm a little like Shrek. (I definitely have layers, as those who know me will undoubtedly attest to.)

[geek tragedy]

25. Is there a backlash against all forms of respect and coutesy that are

demanded of citizens, or is this backlash only in existence when members of one privileged group are asked to respect the feelings of those less priviliged?

[derby378]

37. Depends on the context

The whole idea is that there aren't any privileged groups, and any opinions that we might have to the contrary are the product of our own faulty or distorted observations. Either that, or the fault of FOX News.

If you want egalitarianism, it's best to stop using words that automatically single you out from everyone else. For example, my transgendered neighbor is not a "trans-American," a "tranny," or whatever. She's simply Pamela to me. The fact that Pamela might have been born male is not of any pressing importance to me - this is who she is and where she is, here and now. Labels can sometimes get in the way, whether good or bad.

[geek tragedy]

46. If who wants egalitarianism, they should stop using such words? nt

[derby378]

58. Exactly

We're all bits of starstuff wandering over this Big Blue Marble we call home. (Remember that show from childhood? I sure do.)

[geek tragedy]

60. Some bits of starstuff face societal discrimination and isolation

based on who they were born as.

It's not for us to lecture them on how they should describe themselves.

[whathehell]

114. Bingo...You are correct, Sir.

[fishwax]

117. "there aren't any privileged groups"

Sorry, but I don't think the path to egalitarianism is to simply pretend that things are already equal.

[derby378]

153. How do you regard people in your own mind, however?

People who are somehow different from you, for example?

If you just see them as fellow human beings, you're not pretending anything. It has to start within oneself and get extrapolated into society as a whole. And we need to start it when folks are young.

[fishwax]

160. i view them as human beings, but I'm also aware that there are social structures in

place that present some of those humans with challenges that others (including, often, myself) don't face.

[denverbill]

27. Most people who hate PC are just mad they can't tell racist and/or sexist jokes.

[bamacrat]

43. That's why I don't like it.

[geek tragedy]

51. Say wha? nt

[bamacrat]

96. Tee hee. n/t

[RC]

80. I do not like PC and I do not tell racist and/or sexist jokes.

Nice Black and White broad brush you got there.
It is the confining censorship of the PC that is the problem. Don't use that word, here use this synonym instead.
Being PC is nothing more that cover for being a bully. One can still be a racist or sexist while hiding behind being PC. Quite often being PC is not being honest with who you really are.

[geek tragedy]

101. So, sexism and racism is whatever you say it is, and

if blacks or women take offense to something you're saying (e.g. word choice), they don't know what they're talking about.

Is that what you're saying?

[RC]

105. I also try to avoid bullying.

But some people don't seem to see their own aragance, which makes it hard sometimes.
Oh, and BTW, do you still beat your wife?
I treat the people I know with the respect they deserve. How about you? No? Maybe you need to work on that.

[geek tragedy]

119. I try to treat everyone with the respect they deserve. nt

[RC]

123. I think you outed yourself here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125926

[geek tragedy]

124. It's called a sense of humor. Look into acquiring one. nt

[RC]

125. So that's what you call it.

Needs work.

[denverbill]

107. Every single person I know who whines about political correctness is racist and/or sexist, period.

I cut some slack and said 'Most people' to allow that there might be some people who oppose it who are not. If that's not good enough for you then too bad.

[RC]

108. Project much?

Find anything racist or sexist I posted?

[denverbill]

110. What don't you understand about the difference between most and all?

[RC]

111. I do, but it depends on who is using it and why.

[whathehell]

138. Gee, do you parse out racist and homophobic comments that much?

[RC]

144. Find any racist or sexists post I have made.

I don't automatically assume anyone that doesn't totally agree with me is a problem. And I don't go looking to find what I think is a flaw in the posting to prove my piety, as some here do.

[whathehell]

146. You're not answering the question,

and, no, sorry, I can't be wading through thousands of posts to answer YOUR question.

Mine is a lot easier.

[RC]

147. You are not looking either.

[whathehell]

157. Looking at what?...You're entire posting history on DU?

No thanks.

[whathehell]

102. +10 n/t

[Cary]

6. "Political correctness" is "conservative" code.

The meaning can vary a little but "conservatives" use it as push back against anti-racism efforts. I think it really means "I can talk in racist terms if I want to."

[wryter2000]

34. Bingo!

Sadly, not only conservatives use the term that way, but you're basically correct.

[olddots]

47. true true

they're the ones who spewed the term first time I heard it-some douche like dennis miller or P.J. O rourke .

[Mnpaul]

91. case in point

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/41724__askFLOTUS_Hashtag_for_Citizens_to_Tweet_Michelle_Obama_Swarmed_by_Hate_and_Rage

They hate the backlash from their racist rants. Limbaugh 101.

[Starry Messenger]

8. The phrase "politically correct" is a right-wing meme

Glenn Beck uses it to make fun of liberals who wish to employ egalitarian modes of conversation to make all humans feel included.

[Solly Mack]

15. Yep.

[marmar]

16. Agreed. A loaded phrase, like "War on Terror."

nt

[geek tragedy]

21. Well, the oppressed league of white men are outraged that their LIBERTY

and FREEDOM to denigrate women and minorities is being limited.

What comfort can you offer them?

[Starry Messenger]

23. I might have some left-over bon-bons.

The coconut kind, with a small bite taken out. Can't stand that flavor.

[geek tragedy]

26. Well, our enlightened anti-PC brigade has informed us that

the reason you women are so critical is Darwinism at play.

That is when they're suggesting that the real problem with rape discussions is all of those 'damaged' rape victims shouting the men down.

And yes, those are actual things people said at DU by people who are totally not sexist.

[Starry Messenger]

30. Darwin? The scientist?

Unless they are suggesting that we are awesome, rugged and kick-ass because of survival of the fittest that doesn't even make a lick of sense.

I'm guessing that isn't what they were suggesting...

[geek tragedy]

35. A jury found 0-6 that it was totally not sexist.

This thread is kind of disturbing. Are women this invested in thinking men don't think? Is this why women are so critical? I think we're talking Darwin here.

This kind of thread has me convinced that a certain percentage of purportedly progressive men will simply not tolerate women standing up to them when the issue is sexism, and that they stridently believe in their right to offend women to their heart's content, and that the women offended should STFU.

[Starry Messenger]

52. Oh, there are, definitely.

Fortunately they are few, but quite strident, as you mentioned. They tend to run in swarms. I won't randomly invoke a Victorian scientist to say why though.

They exist outside of DU too. They aren't shy about saying what they think to women in person, either. No one stops them, so hey.

Usually they invoke phrases like "You choose to be offended." Right, like someone would choose to just have that be a part of their everyday life, looking for things to hurt us.

[whathehell]

106. LOL!

[FreeState]

83. This, +1 n/t

[demmiblue]

100. +1 n/t

[whathehell]

104. Yup...

It's the resentment of Straight White Men to losing the status

of "The Only Real (e.g. "important&quot People.

[Shankapotomus]

9. I think Political Correctness is misunderstood

and gets a bad rap. I don't want to know if someone is racist. Racists should live eternally underground and have to perpetually deny or hide they are racists or risk imprisonment. Racism can never succeed if Political Correctness forces it to exist in perpetual darkness, where it should be. Racists should be afraid to voice their views. They are evil.

[arely staircase]

10. regarding that

[arely staircase]

24. start over

if culturaly tying PC fights to the 90s goes over your head i apologize. maybe the 80s would have been better but your rudeness is uncalled for. i voted in the damned poll and gave a reaction you didn't get. sorry if i don't add enough.

[dipsydoodle]

33. I misinterpreted your motive

Apologies.

[arely staircase]

48. accepted

and please accept mine for any vaguery in my original post. perhaps i was too clever by half and it could look like trolling if you aren't in my head.

que ten buen dia

[baldguy]

13. Political correctness is a term the use of which in America was invented by the extreme RW

Exclusively to demean & demonize progressive attitudes, ideas and policies. Like all such terms, the RW can sell their definition of the term very well, and they can make it sound like being against political correctness is a good thing.

But the goal of the RW in using the term is to maintain the traditional power structure in this country at all costs, which means they will disempower & disenfranchise the people in our society who are most harmed by it: women, the poor, minorities, immigrants, social & economic liberals, (might as well add the middle class to the list also). And to ensure that these people NEVER get a say in what their life choices may be, or how to run their own lives.

[BainsBane]

20. exactly

[redqueen]

42. This. nt

[smirkymonkey]

79. Thank YOU!

+1000

[Whisp]

133. thank you.

[ananda]

14. Doing the right thing is doing the right thing..

.. no matter how you label it.

[geek tragedy]

18. When people complain about political correctness, it's usually because

someone got in their grill for making sexist/racist/homophobic/transphobic comments.

Political correctness is one of those problems that priviliged white people have to deal with.

[arely staircase]

38. often

but not always.

some As are Bs

not all As are Bs

i voted that it is an artificial construct. and it is.

[geek tragedy]

41. Of course it's artifcial--it's a rightwing myth meant to

mock the idea that bigotry should be banished from public discourse.

[arely staircase]

57. it started as that

on campuses in the 1980s-90s i think the meaning of the term depends on your context these days. bill maher named his show "politically IN correct" after he got the boot from another gig for not taking a sufficiently pro-war position. so at that moment, in the nation, doubting the official line was NOT politically correct. I have heard liberals use the term for conservative positions many times around here - where the right wing is the norm.

[geek tragedy]

64. Liberals also use words like "race card" against other liberals.

Doesn't change the nature of the word--instead it helps validate the pernicious assumption underlying it.

"See, even liberals agree that the blacks are being oversensitive when we talk about them using welfare checks to buy Obamaphones."

[arely staircase]

66. again, artificial construct

as the op's poll gave, and i chose as the option.

one can either make a real claim of racism, or a phony one.

another can yell 'race card' either way.

[spin]

45. Isn't it somewhat politically incorrect and racist ...

to say, "Political correctness is one of those problems that priviliged white people have to deal with?"

I feel that in order to have any true value, political correctness should apply equally to everybody.

[geek tragedy]

49. Not if it's accurate. Angry white Republican men are the ones

who complain about it the most.

Next up are angry white non-Republican men.

[spin]

73. Perhaps these angry white male Republicans and other angry white males complain because ...

charges of racism and political incorrectness are most often directed at them while other groups can practice both and escape without criticism.

Now I will agree that we still live in a white male dominated society and that often white males do deserve criticism. We have come a long way in our nation and it is a far fairer society than it was when I was growing up in the 1950s and 1960s. Still I feel we have a long ways to go and perhaps in another 50 years we will live in an even better society with far less racism and where respect is shown toward all groups.

I personally abhor racism and stereotyping and feel that it is wise to use moderation in my comments so as to not hurt the feelings of others. If I show respect for others, should I not expect the same in return?

[geek tragedy]

76. It all depends on what we mean by courtesy and respect.

Certainly, black people hating on white people is despicable. It happens, but it's wrong, wrong wrong.

On the other hand, black folks letting white people know that, yeah even if you're not a racist, you benefit from white privilege--that's not racist, or offensive, but a lot of white people take offense at it. A lot.

In general, people who benefit from privilege need to stop being so defensive about it. No one's blaming them for being white or male, or heterosexual, or Christian, or whatever.

Funny thing is, once people just kind of adjust to that reallity, then they start losing the infamous 'white guilt.'

[spin]

82. I do realize that I have benefited from white privilege ...

but I have worked through my life to support civil rights for all. I would like to see my grandchildren living in a world where there was truly equal opportunity and all people showed respect for others.

While I realize that our nation has a long history of racism, I personally feel no guilt because of that as I can only feel quilt for my own actions.

It is quite possible that some of my ancestors fought on the Northern side of the Civil War to free slaves. I do know that both my mother and father were not racist. My dad often told me that our nation is a great melting pot and we would eventually benefit when all races were intermixed. He predicted that this would finally occur in one hundred years which would be 2060 as he died in 1962. He also accurately predicted that our nation would go though a long period of turmoil but that the extreme racism that existed in his time would end and our nation would be far better off because of it.

I think we agree on many points.

[geek tragedy]

89. I agree that we largely agree. nt

[snooper2]

141. So if a study showed women overall are poor drivers

you would support stereotypes calling that out?


All it has to be is "accurate" in your mind right?

[geek tragedy]

143. Data is data. So long as the study is empirically sound

etc.

Of course, all data indicates that women drivers are safer than men drivers . . .

[olddots]

65. I agree whole heartedly

its hard to know people's agendas ,some people are paid a lot of money to act like pigs and some people on line say piggy things for attention ....pigs are nice animals and don't deserve being called humans .

[Comrade Grumpy]

72. Dude, you are the personification of political correctness.

In the bad sense that allows the right wing to make fun of liberals and progressives. The term was orignally used by Chinese Maoists to ferret out deviations from orthodoxy, and that's what rightists in this country attacked. Well, that, and hyperleftism, particularly of the on-campus, holier-than-thou variety.

With your endless harping about privilege and rape culture and your limitless ability to be offended, you are the poster boy. I have arrived at numerous political positions without your help, and I don't need another thousand or so posts from you to figure it out.

[geek tragedy]

74. Oh my, I'm like the Maoists trying to oppress you.

Good thing the "rightists" were fighting the good fight against those evil Commies and "hyperleftism" eh Comrade? The good old days in the 1980's of freedom-loving conservatives fighting against the excesses of the pinko Commie leftwingers.

Tell us, which did you find more erotically gratifying*, the original Red Dawn or Chuck Norris's Invasion USA? You strike me as a "WOLVERINES!!!" kind of fellow, but I don't like to prejudge.

*In a heterosexual, Christian, red-blooded anti-Communist, pro-Freedom American kind of way

P.S. Can I cite to your post the next time someone accuses me of being a closet-rightwinger when I don't soil my drawers over drone strikes, the realistic chances of single payer getting passed by Congress, or the failure to rend garments at the next Great Betrayal (TM) by Obama?

[alarimer]

28. Calling something "politically correct" is right-wing nonsense.

It's not about never giving offense. It's about common courtesy. Sometimes you really shouldn't say what you think. I mean, you may think your boss is an asshole but would you go ahead and say it? If you did, you probably wouldn't have a job for long.

Right-wingers were upset they couldn't use the "n-word" anymore or couldn't sexually harass women in the workplace anymore, so they called it political correctness when they were told not to do that anymore.

[geek tragedy]

39. Look at the poll results--most DUers (likely heavily white and y-chromosomed)

have bought into the rightwing idea that minorities who don't like hate speech are oppressing them.

[Nye Bevan]

69. I'm always baffled when anyone other than the site owners claims any kind of insight

into DU's demographic breakdown.

[BainsBane]

77. That line of thinking originated

on the EXTREME right, with white supremacist groups, and has now filtered down to people who consider themselves liberals. The idea that whites, and white men in particular, are oppressed by women and people of color because they have to share the public sphere with us and are asked to take our concerns into account threatens their privilege, and they hate it. It appears to me to have grown more pronounced under the Obama presidency, since conservative whites now feel victim to an African-American President and a Democratic Party that represents the interests of all Americans. Fox news advances that idea frequently, and now we see it displayed among people who do not consider themselves conservative.

As for this particular OP, the polling questions are absurd. They reflect no effort to think about what politically correct means or to problematize the issues surrounding the terms and the kind of language it evokes. I, therefore, did not vote at all.

[RobinA]

126. Well, I'm White

and X-chromosomed, and the PC speech that drives me the most crazy is that coming from so-called feminists. I can't stand the "It's OK to denigrate men, but don't dare mention that some women may have some less-than-wonderful qualities." meme. Not only do I find it ridiculous and silly, but it invites backlash. In my opinion, we could all learn something from each other; men and woman, black and white, gay and straight, etc.

[geek tragedy]

127. "so-called feminists"

So, what in your mind separates a real feminist from a 'so-called feminist.'

And who is on the record as saying it's okay to denigrate men as a group?

[jeff47]

152. So were you going for the irony, or just didn't notice? (nt)

[wryter2000]

32. Other

I believe in common courtesy. If someone says they don't appreciate being called a disparaging name or word, you should respect that.

[LittleBlue]

36. "I think PC is an artificial social construct that just promotes dishonesty."

Voted for this option. Though I think sometimes it can be a courtesy.

[Nye Bevan]

50. Other. It's more amusing than anything.

When I was a kid, "black" was considered insulting, "colored" was polite and "Negro" was very polite. Now, for no apparent reason, "black" is fine, "colored" is questionable and "Negro" is offensive. But "people of color", for some reason, is impeccably PC.

Also the inconsistencies are funny. "Jap" is terrible, but "Brit" is friendly and affectionate. There was a long DU thread about how insulting the word "Chinaman" is (compared to saying "Chinese man&quot . "Paki" is a despicable insult, "Oriental" (at least when used in the United States) is offensive, but "Pommy" and "Limey" are OK. No apparent rhyme or reason.

Also, when I was a kid, "spastic" and "crippled" were in common use. But these words became offensive and we went down the path of "handicapped", to "disabled", to "differently abled", and "specially abled", etc.

What intrigues me is who gets to decide all this stuff.

Oh, and then the whole thing where people call a Christmas Tree a "Holiday Tree" and refer to Easter Eggs as "Spring Spheres" is absolutely political correctness gone mad. Oops, I meant to say "political correctness gone mentally challenged".

[geek tragedy]

54. Generally the people being described get to determine whether it's offensive or not.

White people don't get to tell black people when they're allowed to be offended, etc etc.

[Nye Bevan]

61. Right. But where are these people who decide?

Was there a committee in China that decided that "Chinaman" had become offensive?

And what if opinion is divided? For example, in a poll 90% of Native Americans did not find "Washington Redskins" to be offensive. Does this mean that it is not politically incorrect? What percentage of the people need to find something offensive in order for it to become non-PC?

I realize that these questions are pretty much rhetorical and unanswerable.

[Notafraidtoo]

85. I can try

Humans are naturally socially savvy enough to not use negative words against people they like or is not a threat to them,after hearing a term negatively used enough against a group of people that word naturally becomes a insult simply because its used as one by those who are fear full of others like lets say people with disability's or of another race, there is no list of words we cant say there is no word police as this argument likes to assume.

Its all about being a jerk,most people don't like being a jerk and when they hear a word used negatively against others that becomes a jerk word pure and simple.

[dipsydoodle]

70. Some of thoses changes in the UK

came about with time influenced by events in the US and others due to differing perceptions of "Asia" for example.


Black here is definitative and removes any possibility of implying that someone so could possibly be Asian. Oriental provides acknowledged separation from the sub Indian continent.

[sufrommich]

97. I read this in Bill O'Reilly's voice. Complete with

The War on Christmas and "why can't those minorities decide what we should call them".

[Nye Bevan]

99. Do you like the terms "Holiday Tree" and "Spring Spheres"? (nt)

[sufrommich]

103. They don't bother me,I'm OK with

people not feeling like they have to have some special reverence for the majority religion in a free country. I'm also OK with minorities objecting to being called by names they don't like in any given era. I assume people who aren't OK with this are attempting to ridicule others out of a sense of entitlement,like Bill O'Reilly.

[whathehell]

139. Yes, most white males, who aren't, by condition of birth, vulnerable to insult & bigotry

can often afford to be "amused" by the issue.

[Nye Bevan]

140. Sorry. I will work on trying to be outraged (nt)

[whathehell]

145. You might first want to "work" at untwisting your balls

You may then stick your snide privileged "sorry" up your

sorry white ass.

Just sayin'

[Nye Bevan]

148. OK. I found this link that should help in that regard.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110121005600AAYy85j

[whathehell]

154. No point in sending them to me, bro

You're the one with the problem.

[Nye Bevan]

155. And I thank you sincerely for helping me to face up to it.

DUers are so wonderful.

[whathehell]

156. and I thank you sincerely

for your sincere humility in accepting it.

[seabeyond]

53. dishonest? tell me how many people you have seen faint because of a word used. nt

[moondust]

55. To some extent advisable.

In general I think it tends to restrain linguistic savagery and hostility. Without it the public discourse today would probably be much worse in terms of open hate, aggression, and malice.

[Rowdyboy]

56. Not sure. Here in Mississippi its considered "politicaly correct" to call African-Americans "black"

because the other words once used were hateful and bigoted. Am I being too "politically correct" when I prefer to use non -racist terms? Women were called "broads" (or far worse) and gays were "queers" or "faggots". If not using those words makes me "politically correct" then I'll live with the shame.

Free speech is a wonderful concept but it can be and often is abused in trying to denigrate others. I won't play that game.

[Waiting For Everyman]

59. The term "politically correct" predates the right's use of it.

Just because the right uses a word or phrase, doesn't make it "theirs". To think that it does is, in itself, right wing thinking.

[geek tragedy]

68. They're the only ones who've complained about it since Alf was on TV

It used to mean "this is the correct political opinion to have."

Now it means "why can't I talk about shiftless welfare bums using their food stamps to buy watermelons and Obamaphones?"

And:

"Why can't I call Sandra Fluke a slut because she wants to have sex and have the taxpayers pay for it?"

[Paladin]

78. +1. It's Nothing More Than A Right Wing Construct, At This Point. (nt)

[Whisp]

134. geek, have I told you lately that I love you?

well, darlin', I'm telling you now.

[geek tragedy]

135. *blushing*

[janlyn]

62. so, so

While I think that the world could definitely benefit from more politeness,I am with you on the whole dishonesty factor...

Just think, isn't that what the conservatives have done?? when they began to realize that their beliefs were becoming outmoded and archaic?

they poke fun at political correctness,and yet they use it to their advantage!!!

You can think a woman's place is in the kitchen,and that jews eat babies,and that blacks SHOULD keep to the back of the bus. You just can't say it now!!! Thank goodness anyone with a brain know what they really think!!

the politeness versus honesty is how I feel about living in the south. Part of me LOVES the politeness,but part of me wished they weren't so FAKEY nice!!!

Took me years before I realized that not every southern woman liked me,and that Ooh how NICE!! was their way of saying F#@# off!!!

[Herlong]

67. Walking in to a room of tall, physically fit black athletes and saying, "What's up my Negroes?"

Walking in to a room of tall, physically fit, black athletes, and and saying, "What's up my Negroes?"

Now apply this to your daily life. Because every time you say something offensive that's the room you are walking in to, you just don't know it. The word PC means more than the feelings of the people you offend.

[ck4829]

71. "PC" is the new right's concept, and one that nobody should co-opt

Basically to make the gains of minorities and inclusiveness look like some foreigner or elitist agenda. They started to call what they did 'politically incorrect' when it started to become kind of uncool to be a racist.

[quinnox]

81. well, I must say these results surprised me! (from the OP, a thanks)

I thought the first and second choices would be the ones heavily chosen, but it looks like many duers seem to be along similar lines to my viewpoints regarding this issue. Thanks to everyone who voted in my poll!

[Herlong]

87. That's cool

Might help to listen to the lyrics.

[RC]

88. Walk a Mile in My Shoes Lyrics - Elvis Presley

(words & music by Joe South)
If I could be you, if you could be me
For just one hour, if we could find a way
To get inside each other's mind
If you could see you through my eyes
Instead your own ego I believe you'd be
I believe you'd be surprised to see
That you've been blind

Walk a mile in my shoes
just walk a mile in my shoes
Before you abuse, criticize and accuse
Then walk a mile in my shoes

Now if we spend the day
Throwin' stones at one another
'Cause I don't think, 'cause I don't think
Or wear my hair the same way you do
Well, I may be common people
But I'm your brother
And when you strike out
You're tryin' to hurt me
It's hurtin' you, Lord HAVE mercy

Walk a mile in my shoes
just walk a mile in my shoes
Before you abuse, criticize and accuse
Then walk a mile in my shoes

Now there are people on reservations
And out in the ghetto
And brother there, but, for the grace of God
Go you and I,
If I only had wings of a little angel
Don't you know, I'd fly
To the top of a mountain
And then I'd cry, cry, cry

Walk a mile in my shoes
just walk a mile in my shoes
Before you abuse, criticize and accuse
Then walk a mile in my shoes (3X)

As I have posted on DU several time before, I taught my kids to try to understand the others persons point of view. Where they are coming from. They don't have to agree, just try to understand.
Being PC just does not fit that philosophy. Being PC is forcing you view on others. As other have noticed on this thread, being PC is a conservative, a Right-wing construct, designed to control others. That is where I get the 'bully' from.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

84. Common decency and respect should be the guide.

"I don't like songs that make people feel bad." Woody Guthrie

[Starry Messenger]

86. You'll have to take off one vote.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=300617

[Rowdyboy]

93. You just made my day!

It doesn't take much these days

[Starry Messenger]

94. I'm glad to!

Hey, whatever works is my philosophy!

[MineralMan]

90. I did not vote. You can say anything you choose.

Whatever you say and how you say it becomes a data point in my assessment of you as a person. If your words demonstrate prejudice or disrepect for some group, then that will also affect my opinion.

Now, you may not care about my opinion of your character, but that is irrelevant to me. Others may also form opinions of you based on how you use language. It is your decision entirely. On DU, we are all known by our words, and by those alone. Choose your words as you please.

[Spider Jerusalem]

92. This depends entirely on context

if you're going out of you're way to give offence and then acting all surprised and indignant when people call you on it? Then you clearly have a problem interacting in modern society.

People crying about political correctness are usually upset that someone has called them on their use of overt racist, homophobic, or sexist language.

Some examples of language considered "politically correct" are frankly absurd and ridiculous though. For instance: I say "black", not "African-American". I live in the UK. There are black people here; few if any of them are "African-American".

[flamingdem]

95. I got a post hidden for using the female equivalent of dick

Will this get hidden for using the term dick?

It's too prudish here

[whathehell]

112. And you are surprised?

Are you saying that you really don't know why "dick" and "c*nt" don't draw the same reactions?

If so, you are ignoring the reality of male dominance, the

power and status differential between males and females in the world.

It's like saying that that the impact of a black man calling a White person "honky"

is the same as that of a White person calling a Black person "n*gger" in this country.

In an "equal" society it would be, but I thought we were all on board

with the fact that when it comes to whites vs. minorities and men vs. women,

that's not the reality.

[flamingdem]

122. Good point. Ironically I believe it was probably

females who were apparently horrified with the term tw*t that Monty Python used on their show. A humor term imo

Why read the humorous comments on this thread if you're uptight? In general there's a new levying of judgement in comments here that is unfortunate. I guess in off season the uptight patrol around here.

One comment was - unacceptable to mention body parts. This was on the thread about the woman who put the gun in her privates and 99% of the responses were humorous but my post set them off. You're right "dick" wouldn't set off that reaction.

I am female by the way. I dislike people who draw lines according to their mood about what is and isn't acceptable to say, especially in the area of humor. It says more about their need to control I believe than sexual politics but that is something I will consider more in this realm.

[whathehell]

137. I didn't read the original thread, so I'm not

sure what you're referring to in regard to being "uptight" about the comments

you referred to as humorous. As to "drawing lines" according to mood,

you won't find me to be one of those, as I'm quite consistent when it

comes to gender slurs. That being said, I'm actually considered to be pretty

funny, myself...I love humor and laughing, I guess I just like "insult" humor, nor

do I see the difference between, say, "fag" jokes and "twat" jokes (Yes, I know they have a bit different attitude in the UK, and I certainly DID like Monty Python, but, again, humor is somethimes not funny when you are the target. I just don't find jokes based on race, gender, or other conditions of birth funny.

In any case, I'm glad that you got my point, and I appreciate your telling me that...I didn't know that you were female and fully expected an unpleasant, defensive response.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

98. Political correctness is situational.

Political correctness, to me, is dressing up nice for an interview or formal event.

Then letting yourself go when you're not in the public eye.

[treestar]

109. Good thing that can go too far sometimes

When in territory where it looks like right wing satire, I start to wonder.

[HappyMe]

113. I'm lukewarm on the concept.

I think it has run amok. Context matters.

The most ridiculous part of it are people that verbally bully people and pat themselves on the back because they didn't use any of The Words. To me, it doesn't make them any damn better than the people who do use The Words.

[Dpm12]

116. I serously don't know

what political correctness is

[geek tragedy]

118. Something is offensive if I find it offensive, and it's politically incorrect

if I find it funny and someone else finds it offensive.

That's the operational definition.

[Nye Bevan]

129. "Holiday Tree". "Spring Egg Hunt". "Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep". (nt)

[Bohunk68]

120. Like I told my former pastor who was

a RW'er and who disparaged "Political Correctness." My grand mother used to call it, "Good Manners."

[Tommy_Carcetti]

121. I have less of a problem with "PC" than I have with....

.....people who insist "they refuse to be politically correct" just so they can express their racist, bigoted or vitriolic opinions.

That and comedians who claim "they refuse to be politically correct" so they tell jokes that appeal to people with racist, bigoted or vitriolic opinions. And I don't buy the whole "equal opportunity offender" thing either.

Just rubs me the wrong way.

"Politically correct" people can be excessive and annoying, but people who brand themselves on being "Un-PC" are often just ugly and hateful people. And that's far worse than just being annoying.

[Nye Bevan]

128. There's a big difference between being a bigot and resisting excessive PCness.

For example, criticizing the school that changed the lyrics of "Baa Baa Black Sheep" to "Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep" does not, IMO, make someone a "bigot".

[Tommy_Carcetti]

130. Of course not.

But some idiot who, I don't know, hypothetically, changes the lyrics to "Baa Baa Ghetto Sheep" (or worse) complete with racial stereotypes and then swears, "I'm not racist--I just refuse to be PC!" is a bigot and deserves to be labeled as such.

[Nye Bevan]

131. Agree nt

[LeftishBrit]

159. Agree entirely!

[stevenleser]

132. The first response to you is an interesting example.

"Hulk Smash" now ppr'd, was someone I thought early on was a troll because of his use of non-PC language, not to mention an obvious attempt to besmirch a fairly popular Democrat almost right out of the gate. Then of course, he was ppr'd for:

"Thinks victims of rape deserve part if the blame"

I think that an unwillingness to appreciate why some of the more vulnerable groups among us prefer we not use certain terms shows a profound lack of empathy. And given that empathy is a major requirement for anyone on the left spectrum... you do the math.

[JonLP24]

142. It depends on what you're referring to

Generalizations, epithets, stereotypes, pejoratives, etc shouldn't be used and there should be heat regarding such usage. If you're talking about little things than it probably is bad unless in cases of disrespect.

[tarheelsunc]

149. Surprised to see so many people outright against political correctness.

It definitely goes too far. (I read about a radio announcer for a college basketball team that called a game a "choke job" and got suspended and criticized.) But is it really acceptable for people to go around dropping n-bombs and using other forms of offensive language?

[Vanje]

150. I'm an out Lesbian , who lives and works in a very conservative rural area.

I've heard my co-workers call our President the 'N' word.

I'm not naive enough to think all of my co-workers approve of my politics and my sexual orientation,
but to have to hear their true feelings would make my workplace hostile, and would make my life into a battlefield.

It would be pretty unbearable.

Count me in for PC, all the way.

[ZombieHorde]

151. I have a feeling many of us use different definitions of PC.

I don't think about the term very often, so I don't have an opinion of it.

[LeftishBrit]

158. I think 'PC' basically means good manners and etiquette, extended to the less powerful groups

Like any form of etiquette, it can sometimes go too far, in the sense of leading to a focus on words rather than deeds, surface rather than substance.

However, a lot of the criticism of 'PC' is basically saying that only the powerful are worthy of basic good manners.