Do whatever the fuck you WANT to do when it comes to doors...

[Bicoastal]

...because there's no possible way for anyone to tell whether you show a preference for one gender or not when it comes to holding doors open for people. Not unless they follow you around to see what you do the next time with someone of the opposite gender--and really, who's doing that?

Hell I don't even really know if I have a preference or not. It's really something I never think about until I'm the process of holding a door open for someone--usually because I got to the door first--and by the time I START to think about it, it's all over.

I just sense that in today's world, there are far better ways of demonstrating your respect for women and belief in gender equality than worrying about this simple gesture. Change nothing.

[Kingofalldems]

1. Same here. Whoever is behind me gets the

door held for them.

[demwing]

5. What I love is to hold the door for someone

alllllllll the way down the hallway, then watch the internal struggle as they decide whether to jog to the door, or stroll while I wait.

I have no preference toward men or women. I am an equal opportunity jog forcer.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

8. ^^^this^^^ n/t

[nolabear]

18. LOL! But it is a funny thing to mentally gauge whether it's a favor or a problem.

This is part of what I love about being a person. Those little signals we all send one another below the surface. Else, how would dancing and sex work?

[Life Long Dem]

63. When people do that

I feel it's really nice of them to take the time to hold the door. And I'm happy to do the little jog.

[Cronus Protagonist]

85. I would ignore your door and open the one beside it

I have enough crazy people in my life without encouraging more of them to run psych tests on me with door holding.

[demwing]

89. that would be awesome!

Or if someone saw me holding the door and just sat down, square in the middle of the hall, with a look of sheer "Nope" on their face!

[Cronus Protagonist]

166. I've done it several times too

I don't need the door held for me, so I usually open the other door and the door holder often looks a little perplexed. I wonder what their experimentational notes say about me... lol!

[demwing]

196. Experimentational Notes, Page #1

Subject: Cronus Protagonist

• Opened door while subject was still at least 50' down the hall.



• Subject showed no signs of internal struggle and walked at an extremely average pace toward the door.



• Subject neither initiated, nor avoided eye contact.



• As agent held the west door open, subject purposefully entered office through the east door.



• Subject is stubbornly independent, perhaps willfully so.



• Subject clearly knows the nature of the test. This awareness is skewing test results.



• Perhaps subject knows too much?

BWAhahaha!

[randome]

198. LOL!

[freshwest]

55. Also, and I don't care what the gender is. Sometimes someone helps me out that way.

In the interest of disclosure, I'm of an age now that opening doors can be painful. So I appreciate it as I think the energy used should be passed on.

I never did get the problem with it when I was young and athletic, unless a stranger was being lecherous. Since I'm older, I'm no longer in that category, thank gawd. Men are more polite where I live now. I've never seen a man act badly, no cat calls or leering looks at young ladies, etc.

Last year I had a young man offer his arm to guide me because I was exhausted standing at a Democratic precinct meeting, and I was deeply touched by his caring manner. It all depends on context.

[onpatrol98]

78. Some people look for reasons to be offended...

I say it's up to the individual to hold the door open or not...AND to do it solely for women or for everyone, for the old, the young...whatever you want.

Some people are professionals at finding reasons for being offended. You can't please them. You won't ever be able to please them. Some women are offended when you say, yes ma'am. Some men, at yes, sir. People are peculiar. I think they're just unhappy. The world is a place for scorn, regardless for them.

Children make them unhappy. Hamburgers make them unhappy. Your religion makes them unhappy. Your sexual orientation, your gender, your age...your weight makes them unhappy. What you drive...what you wear, etc...life makes them unhappy. You make them unhappy.

The truth is...they were just unhappy to begin with and there's nothing you can do about it.

A person who takes the time to wonder "why" you opened a door for them AND attribute a negative reasoning to it, is just a negative person.

Do what you want. Because this group is the perpetually displeased.

I think it's perfectly okay to wonder about the traditions we perpetuate. It's interesting. But, a person who takes the time to be riled up about it. I say, when possible, simply avoid these people.

I think people who open doors for other people are considerate. End of story.

[MynameisBlarney]

68. Ayup

Me too.
Once I held the door for someone, then they held for the next person and that person held it for the person and so on.
By the time I was done paying for my beer and smokes, someone was holding the door for me.
It was a good day.

[Arkansas Granny]

171. I do the same. Old, young, male, female, it doesn't matter.

If someone holds the door for me, I say "Thanks you". I was taught that it's good manners.

[randome]

2. And use the fork on the LEFT for salad!

Or is it the right?

[cherokeeprogressive]

4. I thought it was the outside fork.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

6. start on the outside

and work your way in... but don't use the knife to eat your peas.

sP

[cherokeeprogressive]

14. I thought that's what honey was for!

To make the peas stick to the knife?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

15. that will work...

more fun to balance them, though!

sP

[greatauntoftriplets]

152. I eat my peas with honey.

I've done it all my life.
It makes the peas taste funny,
But it keeps them on my knife.

A bit of doggerel I learned as a child.

[Jackpine Radical]

194. I thought true southerners use molasses.

Up here it's maple syrup.

[leftynyc]

10. Start with one furtherest

from the plate and work your way in. That's how I learned it.

[randome]

27. Geeze, guys/gals, I wasn't expecting to LEARN anything today!

[Thor_MN]

189. Yeah, but then they will screw with you and put some above the plate

[RoccoR5955]

121. and here I thought it was supposed to be used

to stab the person on my left in the leg.

[randome]

124. I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that you don't get re-invited to many dinner parties, right?

[efhmc]

129. You two really did make me laugh out loud. Thanks.

Almost as good as having the door open for me.

[randome]

130. Sometimes there's a kind of 'gestalt' mood that strikes this place!

[RoccoR5955]

135. Is THAT why they don't invite me to dinner...

And here I thought it was because I looked funny, and smelled bad.

[AAO]

111. What are ya, some kinda mook?

[pipi_k]

157. Oh screw it!

See, I can never remember, which is why I carry one of these around in my purse.

[randome]

161. International dining conundrums solved once again by Switzerland!

[cherokeeprogressive]

3. Agree. I would add never smile or make eye contact.

That way, no one can mistake the act of courtesy for ANYTHING other than what it is.

[randome]

35. Look away! Look away!

[cherokeeprogressive]

57. Yeah, but if it's a homely person...

Whole new can o' worms

[The Straight Story]

7. We just need a law that all doors are automatic

Then we don't have to stand there, eyes glazed over, trying to determine if we did something wrong.

Or maybe an app that tracks the sex of the people open doors for so we make sure it equals out over time, with a little slider bar saying if we are sexist one way or the other or neutral.

I think I have held more doors open for women then men in my life, mom just taught me it was polite when I was younger - a show od respect. So I need to catch up and no longer open them for women but only men until the balance in the force is restored.

Things I never thought I would have to worry about to keep my liberal street cred....

[ProdigalJunkMail]

11. i like the app idea... n/t

[LittleBlue]

17. That app is a brilliant idea. Pair it with a shock collar

When the app determines we are holding too many doors open for women, it can send a little electroshock. Then we can be liberated from our benevolent sexism.

[randome]

30. Unless one enjoys shock collars. Then it might be problematic.

[AAO]

117. I will reluctantly admit...

That a man - if they are farther than 20-30 feet away or so - may not get the door held, but a pretty woman will cause me to hold it open even if they are close to a football field away.

But that's not sexism, just hornyism.

[The Straight Story]

119. Well it is sexism if you don't have sex with both men and women equally

[AAO]

132. No, that's just my sexual orientation. I can't help myself!

[randome]

133. You like...doors? Eww!

[AAO]

134. Yes - "Riders on the Storm" is one of my favs!

[kwassa]

153. Which Door? Jim Morrison?

He dead!

[pipi_k]

158. What if

the person you thought was a woman from 100 yards away turns out, at 10 yards, to be a man with long flowing hair?

[AAO]

160. I would hold the door open and wish him a good day!

[Rider3]

9. Um, it's simple courtesy...

As a woman, I don't care who goes first. It's simply about courtesy. If a man is behind me, I make sure to hold the door so that he can enter, too. If an elderly or handicapped person or someone carrying a lot of stuff in their arms, I'll make a point to open the door. It's not hard to be courteous. At least most of the time.

[MattBaggins]

12. Wrong

Instead of dismissing it out of hand just take a simple few moments to reflect on whether you do tend to do it more for women and if so do you let it influences other ways you interact with women.

Institutionalized Racism is a plot made up by angry black men?
Benevolent Sexism is a plot made up by angry feminazis?
They are both legitimate concepts that deserve more than angry dismissal and snark?

[demwing]

22. Genuflect?

[MattBaggins]

31. Fuck and you

Perhaps those words mean what you think they mean.

If you have nothing of value to add other than a wrong word... Well you know the rest.

[snooper2]

38. you are getting mad at the internets...

there's a meme for that too

[Lionessa]

39. Wow, never seen anyone claiming to be a Dem get so pissed over

someone suggesting you not remain ignorant of the terms you're attempting to use. Generally Dems want to be informed instead of ignorant.

[MattBaggins]

51. Sometimes FU is used in jest

Anyone that uses an Inigo Montoya graphic ought to know.

I apologize that my phones auto correct turned my FFD into genuflect.

[Lionessa]

66. I guess I just didn't read any jest in the comment at all. You seemed sincerely pissed.

As for the phones, that's why proofreading is still a required skill.

[MattBaggins]

70. I am diabetic with poor eyesight

Sorry that I don't meet your proofreading standards.

[Lionessa]

72. Apology accepted. Try to do better in the future. But,

seriously try to lighten up a bit, you're definitely ruining your own day.

[MattBaggins]

75. Not as much as you might think

I may have been laughing when I wrote the Fuck and You comment.

[Lionessa]

77. Well, that laugh didn't last long did it, and

what kind of person laughs while rude cursing to another? I guess the kind that finds being the heavy as enhancing their day. Glad I don't suffer the upside down enjoyment that you seem to.

[demwing]

74. That would be me (uses an Inigo Montoya graphic)

You really would have nailed me another Inigo meme...maybe "My name is Inigo Montoya. You hurt my feelgoods. Prepare to Die!"

I thought "genuflect" was cute. That's why I tried the humor route, instead on the pedantic grammar nazi path.

I've almost given up on using my phone to post to DU for that very reason. I also can't text my son Jackson, whose nic-name is Jax. My cell keeps correcting my typing, and I keep calling him Ajax. I have gone back, corrected the correction, and been corrected again! RAGE!

Sorry I pissed on your post. Didn't mean to be so mean...

[MattBaggins]

76. My FU post was not done in anger

I was trying to troll what I though was a troll but it seems to have failed.

Although the use of genuflect is rather funny. It would be amusing to drop to one knee as you open the door for a woman I suppose.

[demwing]

47. Lighten up Francis

You're sweating all over the Internets.

Ew.

[Logical]

65. Amazing this unbelievably rude post did not get locked. They new jury system is a joke. n-t

[MattBaggins]

71. Is it as bad as the one where

the MRA member told the Feminist group member he would like to slam a door in her face?

[Logical]

92. Yes, fuck you is worse. Too bad you do not know it. Lucky for you I am not an admin. n-t

[MattBaggins]

143. Lol

internet tough guy

[Logical]

144. LOL, Yes, because banning you from the DU is fighting you. Sorry if I scared you. n-t

[randome]

99. No, the new jury system, unlike the Pope, is not infallible.

IMO.

[NCTraveler]

56. Good post.

Many of the outraged only got doors out of the deal. They clearly didn't read many of the good articles posted by redqueen. They just saw door, and the outrage went into overdrive. It is kind of funny, the people making the most noise are the ones calling the other group perpetually outraged.

[MattBaggins]

60. Of course

Reducto ad absurdum. There are a lot of "feminazi" haters on Du who want to ridicule the members of the feminist group.

[redqueen]

168. "They just saw door, and the outrage went into overdrive."

Exactly.

It is kind of funny, the people making the most noise are the ones calling the other group perpetually outraged.

[Luminous Animal]

182. It reminds me of how the right trivialized the ERA by whining about unisex bathrooms (nt)

[HappyMe]

59. Oh good grief!

I think you are reading way more into this issue than it needs.

[MattBaggins]

62. You are perhaps not giving it the seriousness

it deserves.

Easier to play the Republican card and condense the issue to a bummer sticker slogan we can laugh at and dismiss.

[HappyMe]

67. Perhaps I am not.

So what.

Oh my! A Republican accusation! How will I go on!!11

[MattBaggins]

69. Trying to create a straw man

by equating Sexism to door opening and "Feminazis", is a Republican tactic.

I did not call you a Republican. I called the tactic Republican. Duers are better than that.

[datasuspect]

127. i will let anyone go first

examples:

-"please, after you." simple.

you have to be courteous in life.

[MattBaggins]

145. Which has nothing to do with the actual issue

[nolabear]

13. Just be kind. To men, women, children, animals, and yourself.

Honestly, nothing should be taken in isolation. It's the arc of your life and your relationships that matter. A kind person who fails to open a door is still kind, and a person who denies your value as a human being can open every door on earth and still be toxic.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. A simple "No, thank you" would work for the squeemish.

[monmouth3]

19. I especially love doing this for men. First they're surprised, then try to flirt (most of them

anyway). It's a nice way to have a short conversation, pass the time of day..

[Recursion]

20. I take off my hat when I talk to women

It's an affectation, yes, and it's probably irritating to some, but it hasn't been irritating enough to anyone (yet) for me to bother unlearning the habit. Call it a residual bit of ingrained southernness.

Then again, I don't get up in arms when people accuse me of sexism or racism, because I don't see those as individual moral failings but as learned (and so re-educable) roles in a social and political system.

Then again the fact that I wear hats when I'm outside is kind of odd to begin with, so I may be getting some leeway because of that.

[HiPointDem]

25. I wish more men wore hats rather than baseball caps. I miss the hat era, it seemed so much

more civilized.

[Lionessa]

29. Well more civilized until the hat comes off and egads! HatHead! tee hee

[HiPointDem]

36. that's why real men carry pocket combs.

[Lionessa]

43. ROFL. OIC. And if I recall have tons of Brillcream (?) to help hold it all in place.

Yeah, no, have no desire to return to those days.

[HiPointDem]

49. brylcreem. a little dab'll do ya, though.

[Lionessa]

50. Well, those that used it were measure challenged then because they were always

so greasy and slicked back, it had to be more than a dab. Of course we know though (heading into a joke here folks, don't get all excited about "generalities&quot that men think 6" is really 10"...shaboom.

[HiPointDem]

53. and women think 160 is really 120. see how that works?

i'm a woman, btw, but i think the repetitive penis thing is a bore.

[AAO]

137. And spit on them when they comb their hair! (see P. Wolfowitz)

[Recursion]

33. Sartorially, at least, it was much more civilized

And, yes, I do wish people dressed better.

And you kids get off my lawn.

[HiPointDem]

44. sartorially was my meaning. i also like when medical personnel wear crisp whites instead of

dirty-looking scrubs over jeans and t-shirts.

and kids are free to come on my lawn, it's the tweakers who've robbed half the cars in the neighborhood i have problems with.

[Lionessa]

32. I wear a fedora much of the time, and I too remove my hat when speaking to man or woman.

Again, it's just polite, regardless of gender.

[Lionessa]

21. I am a small woman, almost elderly, and I happily and cheerfully hold the door

for ALL genders, ages, races, religious affiliations, and sexual orientations. It's just a nice thing to do and I always smile big and say something along the lines of, "well, you look so handsome (lovely for women) today, it just seems someone should hold the door for you," and they always seem a tad more uplifted after they step through. Mission accomplished.

[klook]

23. You are a gem, Lionessa

... or are you a gemess?

For real, though -- I like your style.

[Lionessa]

26. Thank you. I've always felt that making someone else smile brightens my day.

[pipi_k]

159. It costs

nothing at all to brighten someone's day, and in many cases, that one little act can be something the person remembers for years afterward. I try to do that also.

I've mentioned it before, but will say it again...years and years ago I was at a function with my ex husband and some friends when a man I didn't know came up to me and said, "I just wanted to tell you that I think you are lovely", and then he walked away.

Didn't want my phone number. Didn't want to sleep with me. Just wanted to tell me he thought I was pretty.

That was oh...1978 or so. I still remember it today.

Maybe some women would be insulted by that...as if their outer selves don't/shouldn't matter. But it meant so much to me because I always felt ugly.

[blueamy66]

24. I am a woman.

Please open the door for me. Thank you.

[SomethingFishy]

28. THANK YOU!!!

The fact that this entire debate is moronic is overshadowed by the fact that there are multiple threads about it.

Hold the fucking door if you want, don't if you don't. This is not a "benevolent sexist" conspiracy. It's people trying to be nice. You want to make something out of a person trying to be nice, then it's you with the problem.

[Apophis]

34. Only a few people can turn a common courtesy into something negative.

I appreciate it when someone holds the door open for me and I'm sure others appreciate it when I hold the door open for them.

[Gormy Cuss]

90. Ah, but this thread isn't about common courtesy.

Last edited Fri Mar 15, 2013, 05:22 PM - Edit history (1)

It's about treating members of one gender as delicate flowers who can't hold doors open for themselves.

Common courtesy is holding the door for the person behind you. Common courtesy is holding the door for people who are likely to have trouble negotiating the door on their own because they're pushing strollers, carrying packages, or just look like they could use a hand.

[Apophis]

108. I didn't think of it that way.

My girlfriend and I were discussing this topic and she said it's only sexist if a man will open a door for a woman when the woman is 50 feet from the door and she's holding nothing but her purse.

I can see that now. Eyes opened.

[randome]

37. Bad advice. I hold the stall doors open for women all the time.

They don't appreciate it.

[joeglow3]

40. I hurry up and close the door before someone else can get there

That way, I am an asshole to everyone.

[HiPointDem]

46. i hold it shut while making faces through the glass.

[ZombieHorde]

41. At my university, the norm is to hold the door open for whomever is behind you.

Both men and women will hold the door for either men or women.

Sometimes, if I am in a silly mood, I will hold the door for someone who is far behind me, just to see if they will trot to the door out of politeness.

[randome]

45. Hold your hand out for a tip.

[Whisp]

42. I can't tell, are you outraged? n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. This is an issue...serious?

[randome]

54. No, I think it's a replacement for Meta.

[Warren DeMontague]

179. Gee, ya think?

Just remember, everyone is SO HAPPY IT'S GONE!!!!



SO! HAPPY!

[randome]

181. THIS Metalunan is also unhappy!

[MattBaggins]

58. Yes benevolent Sexism is an issue

But DUers have fallen for the silly straw man and trying to turn into a stupid conversation about door holding so they don't have to think about the issue and can instead dismiss it as Feminazi ranting.

[HiPointDem]

64. not much of one.

[HappyMe]

98. It really isn't much of an issue at all.

If a man wants to open the door for me, I'm fine with it. If he wants to help me carry heavy stuff, I'm fine with it.

Instead of worrying about some faux sexism, I'm going to see if they need a hand at the food pantry.

[redqueen]

170. The acceptance of benevolently sexist ideas is strongly correlated with

being more accepting of victim-blaming in situations of rape or sexual harassment.

You may want to label this as "faux sexism" but your opinion doesn't change facts.

Also, the 'can't walk and chew gum at the same time' schtick is old. You took the time to read and post, so...

[seabeyond]

173. you do not find hypocrisy to be an issue? i do .

Benevolent sexism is a part of a model of sexism developed by Peter Glick and Susan Fiske in 1996. Benevolent sexism, as opposed to hostile sexism, often seems to be a favorable view towards females, despite being grounded in gender stereotypes. For example, the beliefs that women are more nurturing, the men should always pay for a date, and that women should be rescued first from a sinking ship are all indicative of benevolent sexism. Benevolent sexism has three sources: protective paternalism (wanting to protect women), complementary gender differentiation (viewing women as different and better), and heterosexual intimacy (worshiping women).


A problem can arise when women are opposed to hostile sexism but not benevolent sexism, such as demanding equal pay for equal work but also believing a man should open the door for a woman. Men often view this as a double standard.

Glick and Fiske found that both types of sexism can, and generally do, coexist. Men who exhibit signs of benevolent sexism also tend to exhibit signs of hostile sexism. This is part of the reason that benevolent sexism may not be as harmless as it seems: it is clearly linked to the more injurious hostile sexism. This may help explain why sexism is still so prevalent in our society. Since the two are related, we can't eliminate the one without the other. Allowing benevolent sexism to remain may be forcing hostile sexism to stay, too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

115. No, not talking about sexism, opening doors.

I opened one for an elderly man today...I just consider that good manners. I am a woman.

[randome]

120. Yeah, but that guy was trying to escape the insane asylum! And you helped him!

[MattBaggins]

142. For you it's not an issue

Many folks believe there is no such thing as institutionalized racism either.

Forest for the trees I suppose.

If you and others do not wish to look beyond the silly door argument there is no chance for discussion.

[nadinbrzezinski]

146. I did not say the issue does not exist.

What I said, reading might help, is that opening doors for others is not necessarily an issue. Sometimes you do as respect to your elders. I guess there were implied things I did not know when I opened the door for an elderly man using a walker this morning.

But hey, whatever

Sometimes there is faux outrage.

[MattBaggins]

147. This isn't an example of faux outrage

This is an example of people taking a complex issue and turning it in to a a silly argument so they can dismiss it and the people who bring it up.

Opening doors for other and opening the door for women are not the same thing. No one is saying not to help others, the concern is about the old mentality that women need to be treated certain ways by men because they are the fairer sex.

People just want to be snarky and dismissive of the "Feminazis" so they refuse to consider the idea that helping others and helping women may be different frame works.

[nadinbrzezinski]

148. Whatever

Have a good day. Thread into The trash it goes

[MattBaggins]

150. Exactly my point

People have made up their minds and won't entertain any notion beyond the silly door issue.

[Luminous Animal]

185. Yep. And the Equal Rights Amendment was all about unisex bathrooms. (nt)

[redqueen]

167. Yep. And it's really sad. nt

[polly7]

186. Hey nadin ...

speaking of all this, how did you make out when you first started with ems in terms of lifting and carrying? I remember in training being told not to 'expect' any help from police when lifting or carrying a very large or heavy pt., ... and it made sense, of course they couldn't be expected to risk injury (but they did help .... many times). I've always been strong and have never needed help with lifting ... it's just something that needs to be learned correctly, but have had some really funny responses and nervous looks when responding as a two woman team. Especially from some of the less ill older men, who felt so bad about having to be carried by us little ladies and would offer to get up and walk. If they hadn't been strapped down, I know they would have.

[nadinbrzezinski]

192. Yup, I had the same experience

Was part of the first all female crew. Chuckle.

I know what you speak off.

In TJ when we had a really big patient we even had bystanders help...and at an MCI keeping them out was the trick.

Different culture to a point.

[klook]

52. Sometimes people try to "seniorize" me

so I can project and kind of understand the irritated feeling some women get when somebody holds a door open for them. But I have to say, the reactions I've seen on some of these threads today are really over the top.

What I mean by "seniorize" -- every now and then, some cashier at the supermarket will ask me if I want help taking my groceries to the car. (And I am SEVERAL years shy of getting the senior discount, thank you very much!) Quite often I get this from tiny young women -- the kind who probably get doors held open for them a lot. I always smile and politely decline, because I know they're just being nice (and maybe want a break to get outside the building for a couple of minutes). But these exchanges always make me think, "Sheesh! You think I'm OLD?!1!!1??1!!1" (...just because I'm 30 years older than you? )

But hell, am I going to accuse these well-meaning young cashiers of raging ageism? I have better things to do with my energy.

[Evoman]

104. Some of the grocery stores have that as a policy.

I wouldn't necessarily take it as someone trying to "seniorize" you. Depending on the grocery store, I get asked if I need help with my groceries, and I'm a tall, big 33 year old.

[klook]

109. Thanks, that's reassuring.

And I didn't really mind the drug store cashier who told me, "I'm gonna go ahead and give you the senior discount." After all, it saved me a couple of bucks, so what the heck?

Sometimes a shrug (and, in extreme cases, a deep breath) is the best policy.

[davidpdx]

202. I concur with the person above

I worked at a grocery story (actually Safeway and this was a long time ago) and they pretty much require you to ask everyone who has a grocery cart if they want help out to their car. We had secret shoppers come through to score us based on what the policies were and would get dinged on our score if we didn't do what we were suppose to. The people who work there have a lot of pressure put on them to follow policy, especially when it comes to customer service.

[klook]

203. Wow, interesting

Thanks for the info. The people at my grocery store are genuinely nice and helpful, it seems to me. My wife and I always make a point of shooting the breeze with them a little bit and treating them like human beings instead of automotons, using their names when we know them (or can obtrusively steal a glance at their name tag), and I think it often brightens their day as well as ours.

From now on I will remember that the ones who offer to help a future doddering old fool like me with his groceries are just doing their jobs. And one day, I'll accept their offer of help.

[X_Digger]

61. My momma would smack the back of my head if I stopped now..

.. and it doesn't matter that she lives in another state, she'd break the barriers of time and space to do so.

[MattBaggins]

73. Would she smack you for not opening the door

for other people or not opening the door for women? There is a difference.

[X_Digger]

107. Women, someone with their hands full, children, the infirm, senior citizens (of both sexes).

The same rules apply for entering and exiting elevators, seating on benches, waiting rooms and the like, etc.

I really don't care if that makes me sexist, ageist, able-ist, or whatnot. Those were the manners I was raised with.

[MattBaggins]

172. I was busy with other things

He did nothing but put out one more tired example of what the Feminists are not talking about.

wasn't worth the time to respond.

[seabeyond]

191. nor is occulus. more fabrication and make believe. nt

[gollygee]

155. That's actually a good example

Let me say first that this issue doesn't keep me up at night or upset me, and if someone opens a door for me - anyone - I smile and say thank you, and just take it as a kindness. To me the concept of benevolent sexism is a conceptual thing that shows a more societal view of women. Having the door opened for me doesn't make me unhappy.

And your post really is a good example. I know you do what you do out of kindness and from how you were taught, and I don't want to be negative about that. I just want to show that saying women need the same consideration as people with their hands full, children, the infirm, and the elderly, is the point exactly. We aren't infirm, and we aren't children. For me, personally, I'm not upset about the act of the door being opened for me. I just notice that I'm put into a category with the elderly, the infirm, and children.

So the issue isn't the door. It's the categorization.

When I've been pregnant, I've had doors open for me every single time I stepped near a door. That's when you really get it, but at that time it's harder to get around, too. I'm not sure if that's recognition of the physical difficulties of pregnancy, or some kind of sexist thing, or a combination, but it didn't upset me either.

Sometimes we like to talk about theory. We aren't upset about everything. I'm not speaking to you here, but I wish DUers in general would calm down about us discussing sexism. It is simply an area of interest to us.

[X_Digger]

156. *nod* It's not something I put a lot of thought into, and I've never had anyone get mad over it.

If someone extends the same courtesy to me, I be sure to say, "Thanks!".

I don't consider it infantilizing or a comment on women's capabilities. It's a kindness that I extend.

It's funny the way certain manners we grow up with stick more than others. When I was growing up, two of my parent's close friends were 'Aunt Janet' and 'Uncle Bruce'-- neither were actually related to me. I have a friend of my mother that I still call, "Aunt Linda". It was an honorific.

I didn't realize until I was about ten that 'Grandma Trula Bee' and 'Grandpa Aldy' weren't actually my grandparents.

[pamela]

79. Wow, I must have really missed something.

Haven't been on DU for days and now I see all these threads about doors.

[randome]

84. It's a-door-able, isn't it?

The Meta dimension done collided with GD!

[Evoman]

105. *groan* Puns like that should be a bannable offense.

[randome]

114. I can't believe I even typed it. I'm not the sort who uses the word 'adorable'!

What's wrong with me??

[Buzz Clik]

80. Is this really a topic worthy of discussion? I see that lots of people are responding, but REALLY?

I have kids hold the door me on the way into a building with two sets of doors. I hold the next door for them. What does that mean? My mom would say it shows good manners.

[applegrove]

81. Whether you are a man or a woman,

always hold the door open for a person with kids or parcels, some one old, or a line of people whose first person got to the door before. It feels good to hold the door open for anyone actually, so do it as often as you can. Who doesn‘t want to feel good.

[randome]

83. Or someone with crutches. Or in a wheelchair.

Or walking on one's hands. Or skiing. Or running from a vicious hoard of zombie butterflies.

[applegrove]

138. butterflies LOL!

[Aldo Leopold]

82. I constantly remind my son AND my daughters to

HOLD THE FUCKING DOOR OPEN FOR THE PERSON BEHIND YOU. Without a thought as to who that person might be.

Great post.

[Rex]

86. META was boarded up without notice

and this is the result.

Doors will continue to be a hotbed of controversy for eons. No doubt.

Since reading all about doors today, I've started yelling at people to HOLD THE DOOR! Then turn and walk in another direction. As an experiment to see how many people will throw rocks at me and what gender, height, age, blood type, weight, left hand - right hand, faith - no faith, dog person - cat person format in crayon on a flowchart I made myself! I even crayoned in the word EXCEL and drew all the rectangles by hand!

[randome]

87. Oh. My. God. We need to bring Meta back just so you have somewhere else to go!

[Rex]

88. No need, you bring META into each reply

no matter where you go. It is on the flowchart, somewhere.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

112. As your avatar says....

....not THIS shit again.

[Rex]

116. Breasts, doors, elevators

one can only guess what will be next. How we went from breasts to elevators is not clear, but I guess that is the whole point.

[winter is coming]

163. I was wondering that, too.

Maybe there's so new super-duper mega-uplift bra that we've missed the discussion of.

[LadyHawkAZ]

91. The person who reaches the door first, opens the door

and holds the door until the next person has either gone through or taken the handle. How hard is that? I don't understand why this is a pressing issue that demands multiple threads.

[MattBaggins]

149. Because what you suggest is standard practice

It is also not what the issue is actually about

[UnrepentantLiberal]

93. How about letting a women exit the elevator first?

Every time I've done that the woman has smiled and said thank you.

[randome]

94. Unless you're on the 13th floor.

Then you're just being mean.

[seabeyond]

95. talk about myopic. the issue is not damn doors. geeez. nt

[rrneck]

96. Better to be wrong opening them than closing them. nt

[RedCappedBandit]

97. Can I just leave the toilet seat up now?

[Luminous Animal]

187. No. Both the seat AND the cover should be down after use.

[JoePhilly]

100. I hold the door for anyone who is within about 10 feet of the door.

On either side.

In graduate school, a woman yelled at me for holding the door for her. How dare I!!! And so on.

I laughed and said, ... "No problem, next time I see you coming, I'll make sure to hurry through and close the door so that you can open it properly".

To which she said "Fuck you!"

And I responded ... "Wow, the University has a free course on rude behavior, I had no idea."

She stormed off.

I still hold the door for everyone. Most people appreciate it. Although some do march through as if its your job to do it. They're funny too.

[deutsey]

106. I do, too

It never even occurred to me that doing so could be be seen as controversial or offensive. I don't even expect a thank you...somebody's coming out in front of me, I hold the door and let them come out. Someone's coming up from behind me as I'm going in, I just hold the door long enough for them to get it as I go in.

[JoePhilly]

110. Other than that one time, its never been an issue.

Unless sometimes people are angry but don't say anything.

[bike man]

101. I hold doors for people of all ages - men, women, and children. Children almost always

acknowledge this in some way (a smile, thank you, or just simple eye contact), but quite often adults brush by without doing so.

[ellie]

102. I didn't realize this was being debated?

What the hell is wrong with people? I hold the door because I am polite.

[deutsey]

113. Ain't nobody got time for this.

[polly7]

190. Oh I love Sweet Brown.

She's a spokesperson now for some company, I can't think of which though. She me laugh for hours.

[Luminous Animal]

188. It isn't. Some people are pretending that it is. Similarly, the

right wing pretended that the Equal Rights Amendment was about unisex bathrooms.

[AAO]

103. I hold the door for anyone directly behind me, sometime for a whole line of people.

It's a nice thing to do. <--- (period!)

[NMDemDist2]

200. the old cowboys in my town do that too

especially (it seems) at the Post Office.

I always thank them and comment "You could be standing there all day now" since the Post Office is a hot bed of traffic here in Nowhere, NM

[AAO]

204. Sure. You need to gauge the situation, and not be late to work!

[sibelian]

118. I hold the door open.

For everyone. That's it.

[RoccoR5955]

122. What's the big freakin' deal?

Just hold the door for the person behind you. Simple human courtesy.

[4Q2u2]

123. Angle #1,246

What if I was opening the door for a woman in a combat zone so she could enter the house and get shot first.

[SheilaT]

125. I love it when some nice man holds the door open for me,

and then there's another door immediately ahead of us, so I hold that one for him. The men seem to like it too.

The first time I ever got a senior discount I was all of 46. The cashier could not herself been over 16, so of course I looked old to her. Every woman my age I told the story to thought I should have been offended. How could I have been? I recall being not much older than that and waiting on the public, and to me there was no difference between some one over 40 and someone on social security. Nowadays I take every senior discount offered.

I'm also a little on the short side, so sometimes I can't reach something on a high shelf, so I will always politely ask someone taller (usually a man) to help me out. I then smile and say, "That's why God made strong, tall, handsome me." So far no one seems to have gotten offended.

[cbdo2007]

126. We have a revolving door at my work so luckily I don't have to worry about this.

We also have a regular door next to it, but I don't use it so I don't have to think about it. I'm guessing that's why revolving doors were created, so women wouldn't have creepy guys going out of their way to hold the door for them anymore.

[randome]

128. Look, if you start creating exceptions, the entire concept falls to pieces!

Hold the door! Whether it's a revolving door, a trap door, an emergency escape door...hold it!

[efhmc]

131. What I'm trying to teach my gsons is not to run up to a door, open it and

run in, leaving the person behind him with a door in the face. To me that is just bad manners, no matter who is on the other side.

[LiberalArkie]

136. Where I work, a person will get fired if they hold to door open for the next person.

Everyone has to badge in and enter individually.

[a2liberal]

139. Context?

Specifically, are there other threads on DU talking about this? I'm oblivious and I don't know where to go to find what drama things refer to anymore.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

140. Big doors or small doors? n/t

.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

141. Next up,...all males at the table standing up when the woman has to go take a piss.

[graham4anything]

151. Riders on the Storm

[Cali_Democrat]

162. What is the proper way to open a door for someone?

Should you walk through the door first and then hold it open? This is assuming the door has to be pulled to be opened. Or do you pull the door open and allow the other person to walk through before walking through yourself?

If the door has to be pushed...do you push, walk through and then hold it open? Or do you push without walking through, awkwardly keeping your arm extended as you allow the other person to pass?

It can all be so confusing.

[randome]

169. I walk through and hold it open.

It's a good middle ground between being helpful and trying not to look patronizing.

[AllyCat]

164. I just think it's kind to not let the door slam in

another person's face.

[redqueen]

165. Yeah, see, it's not about doors.

FFS, does anybody read anything?

[MattBaggins]

174. No they do not

They do not want to think at all.

If this was a discussion of Institutionalized Racism and posters pulled the crap they have on this issue they would get a tombstone.

[redqueen]

175. I don't know if they'd get PPR'd, but they sure wouldn't be so proud of how little they care

or so eager to mock and belittle issues which they clearly don't have the slightest flickering of understanding about.

[MattBaggins]

177. They should get one

The blatant attacks allowed on DU towards members of the Feminist group would not be tolerated if the issue was Racism instead.

If someone tried to dog whistle "look an angry black man" on DU they would rightfully be gone in an instant but play the "Feminazi" card and it is allowed to fly.

[Kingofalldems]

183. So you say

[csziggy]

176. As a woman who holds the door open for the next person

Who is near, I don't get the outrage. I don't pay attention to who the next person is, I hold the door for a human being out of politeness.

When people hold the door for me, I always smile and thank them because I appreciate the courtesy. I never expect the person ahead of me to be obliged to hold the door for me because of my sex, my appearance, my age, or an infirmity so often my thanks is tinged with surprise.

What I do like is that frequently when I have held a door for someone else, they seem to be happier afterwards. Courtesy and happiness are easy to share and to pass along. People should do it more often.

[seabeyond]

178. the only ones that are outraged are those accusing anyone being outraged because someone holds a

door open.

i have yet to see a single person outraged cause another held a door.

i have seen many people outraged at this fabricated person though.

[Texasgal]

195. That's because there is NO outrage

just manufactured BS that is common on DU.

[Warren DeMontague]

180. No, I will not get the door for you.

my hands are full.

[alp227]

184. My approach to the door:

- Chivalry is a relic that should be left to Victorian England
- If the door is going to slam right when the person behind me gets there I gotta hold it open

[BainsBane]

193. Because we don't have enough flamebait

Create a strawman here. No one gives a fuck about the door. Think about something else.

[Cerridwen]

197. You have my sympathy.

You have my sympathy for such a binary view of the world.

It must suck to see the Rainbow colors and nuance of the world in such black and white images.

I can't imagine how difficult it must be to be ignorant of the nuance surrounding your every waking moment.

Again, you have my sympathy.

[ThoughtCriminal]

199. Don't get me started on those self satisfied automatic doors

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_in_The_Hitchhiker's_Guide_to_the_Galaxy#Doors

Doors manufactured by the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation are programmed to love their simple lives; they love nothing more than to open and close for passing users, and thank them profusely for so emphatically validating their existence. Most characters in the series grow to loathe the doors, particularly Marvin (and he was the first to explain about the doors' "cheerful and sunny dispositions&quot .


“Ghastly,” continued Marvin, “it all is. Absolutely ghastly. Just don't even talk about it. Look at this door,” he said, stepping through it. The irony circuits cut into his voice modulator as he mimicked the style of the sales brochure. “All the doors in this spaceship have a cheerful and sunny disposition. It is their pleasure to open for you, and their satisfaction to close again with the knowledge of a job well done.”

As the door closed behind them it became apparent that it did indeed have a satisfied sigh-like quality to it. “Hummmmmmmyummmmmmm ah!” it said.


The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy defines the marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation as "a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes," with a footnote to the effect that the editors would welcome applications from anyone interested in taking over the post of robotics correspondent.

Curiously enough, an edition of the Encyclopedia Galactica that had the good fortune to fall through a time warp from a thousand years in the future defined the marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation as "a bunch of mindless jerks who were the first against the wall when the revolution came."

[dkf]

201. Letting the door slam on whoever is behind you is the asshole thing to do regardless of gender.