A question about the New DU

[Armstead]

I've been out of the DU loop for awhile. Life intervened.

In checking out the new DU' I've got a question. NOT trying to stir anything up, but an honest question.

It seem from perusing the forums, that there is much less critical content about Democrats. Not as much back and forth about President Obama and the differences that exist on the left half of the spectrum.

Is this my imagination, a policy change, or a natural result of where we are in the election cycle with the awfulness of the GOP becoming more of a natural focus than the debates on the left over things like healthcare, etc.?

Just curious about this.

[Patrick_Bateman]

1. Good question and observation.

Only recently becoming a member but was a long time reader of DU, I agree things seem not to go full circle discussion before a member is muted or a thread is locked. As long as all is civil, let the conversation turn into a meaningful debate.

[Renew Deal]

2. It seems like people are having an easier time when there is an obvious "enemy"

[RZM]

57. And so the world turns . . .

That's an old story there.

[snooper2]

3. LOL, go ask the 8 people at DU2

They'll tell you how the PTB took over and are trying to silence any dissent

Of course BBI is still here

[sharp_stick]

6. I forgot about them

are they still there? One of these days Skinner's going to cut off the power over there and the rending of garments will commence in furious and hilarious fashion.

[SidDithers]

10. It's OK. They're planning their own DU3 group...

I'm really hoping they name it the DU2 Group.

Sid

[2QT2BSTR8]

8. BBI?

[TheWraith]

14. User "Better Believe It."

Your local source for every negative propaganda story one can possibly find about Democrats, posted as often and with as much drama as one can possibly summon.

[ljm2002]

23. Sorry the jury let this stay...

...I voted to hide it. Calling out other DUers is against the rules and that is what this post does.

So in the spirit of the apparently more-permissive rules here at DU3: TheWraith is an ass.

[SwampG8r]

24. more

the exact center of one
ground zero

[TheWraith]

28. Telling the truth isn't against the rules.

Certainly no more so than posting a constant, non-stop stream of anti-Democrat propaganda aimed at discouraging or fracturing the left, much of it coming from sources which either advocate for third parties or places like FireDogLake that are financed by Republicans.

[Bluenorthwest]

40. I find your constant contention that the Admins allow 'anti Demcrat propaganda' of

nefarious intent on this site insulting to them. What you say is not true, and it is rude.

[ellisonz]

49. +1

Some at this website seem more concerned about considering to divide, rather than unite. I think it's sad.

[eridani]

91. That would really be wonderful if FDL were financed by Republicans

Then Republican money would go to material support of OWS, which is a better use for it than supporting Repuke politicians.

[snooper2]

52. That's one of the stupidest rules DU has by the way..

Somebody posts something that is truthful and verifiable about another "anonymous" person, really just a user id...and it's hurtful


At least we get to see hidden posts here. A (DU2'er) posted a blatant lie about DU3 and I called them out on it over there. Took 4 days for the post to get deleted though LOL

[ljm2002]

53. If I criticize a family member...

...say, for drinking too much, that does *not* indicate that I am against that person. Rather, it indicates my concern and my wish to help them become better by not drinking, or not drinking to excess.

Similarly, criticism of Democratic office-holders or the positions they take does *not* necessarily indicate that someone is against them.

It seems to me that some people miss this distinction.

[limpyhobbler]

72. +1

what he/she said.
Just because someone criticizes policies of elected dems, does not mean they are against them.

[FlaGatorJD]

92. +1,000 (n/t)

[Kaleko]

55. Weird. I alerted on that post

to see what would happen and got the following result: a jury voted 4-2 to hide it.

How come it is still there? Perhaps a glitch in the alert system?


At Fri Feb 3, 2012, 10:34 AM you sent an alert on the following post:

User "Better Believe It." http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002251783#post14

The reason for the alert was:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

You added the following comments:

Calling out a DUer. Personal attack.

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this post at Wed Feb 1, 2012, 11:10 AM, and voted 4-2 to hide it.

Thank you.

[Renew Deal]

60. I think it was an accurate description

And if it's accurate, can it be a personal attack?

[Renew Deal]

66. What you posted is insults.

It is not insulting to state that BBI is "Your local source for every negative propaganda story one can possibly find about Democrats, posted as often and with as much drama as one can possibly summon."

I think many DUers are fans of BBI for that specific reason.

[Number23]

67. "I think many DUers are fans of BBI for that specific reason."

Nailed it.

[DevonRex]

101. There is no rule against call-outs.

There are community standards. The standards are what juries say they are.

[Grateful for Hope]

112. The Wraith calls it as he sees it.

[ljm2002]

115. Well...

...one could make the same statement concerning lots of people. For example, I'd say that Ron Paul calls it as he sees it.

In other words, your statement is values-neutral.

[Grateful for Hope]

118. It was meant to be (values neutral).

[ljm2002]

121. In that case it was pointless...

...since the vast majority of us on this board call it as we see it; therefore, it does not distinguish TheWraith from others on the board.

[Grateful for Hope]

124. Thanks for your opinion. n/t

[UnrepentantLiberal]

62. User "TheWraith".

Your local source for every negative propaganda story one can possibly find about Progressives, posted as often and with as much drama as one can possibly summon.

[ljm2002]

117. +1000 n/t

[kentuck]

4. Armstead..

I think much of it might be because GD and GDP were combined and GDP was mostly pro-Obama no matter what. The GD is where most of the criticism generated, in my opinion.

Welcome back!

[ZenLefty]

7. I think this is it.

There were a lot of people in the old GDP who really didn't post much in GD. Then when DU3 came around everyone kinda had to hash out everything in one forum.

I know we recently got a P2012 forum but that's too many acronyms in my reply.

[Lionessa]

5. From what I've seen and read on other liberal forums...

Many of the more liberal or left leaning folks simply walked away when the new DU started because they pre-determined that the jury system would be corrupt. Many others since the boot up of DU3 have been TS'd, but following from their comments on the other sites, it looks to me that they were trying to get the boot by clearly stepping over lines they knew existed, then went to other sites to complain.

There are a few long standing left leaning liberals still here, who manage to post within the rules, but there are fewer of us left to support them.

There also seem to be fewer of nearly every type though. I've noticed huge differences in the views and rec's (even with no unrec's to interfere) compared to DU2 the typical DU2 greatest page of yore.

[Blue_In_AK]

128. Some of us lefties still come here occasionally,

but only post innocuous little nonpolitical things that couldn't possibly offend anyone. That's me. I go elsewhere if I really want to speak my mind.

[Lionessa]

129. So far I've been able to speak my mind, and I'm not a fan

of Obama, DNC, or DLC. Only one topic is in my mind off limits for me, and that's because it's simply not appreciated anywhere. So I've learned to keep it to myself even on the other liberal forums.

I am also having to be careful to not let some of the usual suspects goad me, even though they seem to be able to get away with more crap, I've had to just accept it's a reflection on them and not me.

[Old and In the Way]

9. There doesn't seem to be nearly enough discussions trashing Democrats and Obama here.

We ought to be more focused on what talking points we can provide Republicans to use against Democrats in November. With a little effort, we can help increase Obama's negatives and make this race in November competitive!

[RC]

13. The reason being, that most of the high profile Liberal and Progressive members

have been driven from DU.
Leaving those that think the DLC and the DNC are somehow both Liberal/Progressive Democrats. Never mind the DLC is (was*) Republican Lite.
*The DLC supposedly was dissolved in February 2011. The reality the DLC is not needed as they have taken over the Democratic party.

Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council

[TheWraith]

18. If some people think the extremely liberal population of DU is somehow less liberal...

...because we're not constantly bashing and denigrating the people we elected to advance our agenda, we're probably better off without them.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

63. You're extremely liberal?

[Number23]

68. Do you have a crush on that poster or something?

[UnrepentantLiberal]

69. Is the BOG a biker gang?

Challenge one, the other's jump in.

[Number23]

73. Wraith doesn't post in the BOG not that this has anything to do with my question

Wanna try again?

[UnrepentantLiberal]

76. And answer your goofy question?

Doesn't matter where Wraith posts, he's a blue dog Big Kahuna.

[Number23]

77. He must be doing something right if you're his #1 fan

So carry on. I guess.

[dionysus]

78. crushes are so sweet, aren't they?

[Number23]

79. lol Depends on who is doing the "crushing"

As for this particular one, I think Wraith may have a different take on "sweet"

[UnrepentantLiberal]

81. I've read your posts. You're not exactly overflowing

with positive vibes.

[Number23]

82. And this relates to your constantly negative comments to TheWraith in this thread, how?

[UnrepentantLiberal]

83. Just stating my opinion.

Now I'll be moving along.

[Number23]

85. For the sake of your transparency page

Probably not a bad idea...

[UnrepentantLiberal]

80. Obama dead-enders have a silly answer for everything.

Since I rarely visit General Discussion, I rarely read Wraith's posts. So I guess I'm envious in my dreams.

[Number23]

84. Not only do I not know what an "Obama dead ender" is but I strongly suspect

that coming from you, it's probably an unintentional compliment.

So thanks.

[pintobean]

90. Very well done.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

122. And now a high five from pintobean.

You're a leftist guru.

[Number23]

123. Thought you were "moving on?"

Starting to think that you don't mean anything you say, and that certainly goes triple for any "apologies." Oh well, life goes on.

[Union Scribe]

94. Lol. I wonder what their patch would look like. nt

[UnrepentantLiberal]

107.

[bahrbearian]

119. I thought I was the only one that noticed it.

And the have fast bikes, they are alway cruzing, I think Sid lives here, he must be a Homey

[Mojorabbit]

126. +10000

and you can't have a rational discussion without blue link people jumping in and derailing the conversation. It is frustrating as Hell.

[Skinner]

11. I think it is true there are fewer critical postings about Democrats.

I wish I could say for certain why that is. My gut feeling is that it's a combination of two things:

1. The Republican Primary has sucked all the air out of other topics, here on DU and elsewhere. It also served to bring into focus the fact that the Republicans are actually worse than President Obama.

2. Echoing what Lionessa said above, I think some people voluntarily chose not to come to the New DU because they thought DUers serving on juries would unfairly censor criticism of President Obama. This is a shame, because I think in practice, DUers serving on juries have shown a strong preference toward leaving posts rather than censoring them. When we designed the system, our hope was to get off people's backs and let them have discussions, and it seems to be working out that way.

[Lionessa]

12. Perhaps the only thing you and I will ever agree on, but

one is better than none.

[Evasporque]

16. Obama!

Did good!-------------- Did bad!
\\\\\\\\\\\\ ///////////


There now we are perpetually fair and balanced....

[Armstead]

34. Thanks for the clarification

As one who has done my share of criticism of Pres Obama and the Dems on DU I'm glad there is still room for debate here.

At the same time, the prospect of President Romney and a GOP Congress is scary as hell, and certainly overrides any disagreement some of us may have with elected Democrats.

[DevonRex]

103. I think some of the stuff said by

Republican nominees has been so frightening that it's created a bit more unity here. Those nuts are really and truly scary.

[Kaleko]

58. Skinner, since you've posted here, please take a look

at what happened up-thread.

There seems to be a glitch in the alert notification system.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002251783#post55

[UnrepentantLiberal]

64. As you know, they decided that before DU3

got going.

[malaise]

86. I've noticed that on the juries where I've been involved

Indeed I've been pleasantly surprised at the objectivity of jurors.

[JohnnyRingo]

15. I think many of the president's critics have finally accepted that there will be no challenge

this fall.

As 2011 turned into January, those who complained that Obama should meet a drafted opponent from the left have come the harsh reality that it absolutely isn't going to happen. There will be only two choices in November, and stating that Obama has to go at this point leaves only one alternative. Four years of Mitt Romney.

Complaining that Obama hasn't met our expectations will have to wait until next January, when DUers can pick up where they left off. I'm all for dissent, but I'd rather hear four years of complaining that Obama is ignoring the left instead of four years of conspiracy theories that got Romney got in the White House.

[RC]

17. How does criticism of Obama equate to support of Republicans?

All praise, all the time is what the bu$h administration pushed. We will be dealing with that train wreak for generations.
One can be critical of and criticize Obama and still support him. That concept is hard for some here to grasp.

[BrendaBrick]

29. +1 It can be both, IMO n/t

[JohnnyRingo]

47. Maybe you and I don't see the same critisism.

Where people say they're going to stay home in November to "send a message" to the Democratic party, or that "maybe we need four years of a republican" so the next Democrat will serve the left. I'm not making this up, I've been in a few agruments here over those points. Fortunately, we've seen less of that recently, as I originally pointed out.

People can critisize and be critical of Obama and not support him at all. The concept of unity behind the candidate is hard for some here to grasp.

[Motown_Johnny]

19. Just today Mitt said he didn't care about the very poor

So I think it is the election cycle. The (R)s have been front and center for a while and we tend to focus on them more.

[girl gone mad]

20. There are fewer people here now.

Many of the long time liberals have moved on. I can get caught up on all the popular topics in less than 30 minutes now. I wouldn't bother trying to post anything meaningful in GD because "the swarm" destroys the chance that an interesting dialogue could emerge.

[RKP5637]

22. I think of DU anymore as main stream democratic. I don't see things

wildly underground, really liberal or progressive anymore. I've also noticed a lot of posters I used to follow gone or just currently MIA.

[RC]

25. +10

I think we can thank "the swarm" and Jury System for that. Those of us that are left feel we have to censor ourselves to avoid getting our posts hidden. I never felt that way on DU2.
It is easier for some to "Alert" on someone than to respond as to why they disagree with something that was said. Look at the alerts where the alerter has nothing of substance to support their alert.

[sabrina 1]

45. Yes, a lot of people are gone. And the discussion aspect of DU has suffered as a result. I

was hoping they would stay and/or start posting again but the likelihood of being attacked constantly for stating an opinion and accused of being a Republican is not something people want to bother spending their time with. Maybe the board is evolving to reflect the Party itself which has taken a huge shift to the right. My hope is that we can drag it back to its original platform where Corporate influence no longer drives the Party's policies. To do that it will be necessary to support the most progressive candidates, those the party often does not support at this point. This time hopefully the people will decide.

[woo me with science]

46. This is the correct answer.

When a content-free swarm of mocking and vitriol follows any post that attempts to move beyond election talking points to a more critical appraisal of our party, it only makes sense that people tire of it and go looking for real discussion elsewhere

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=200607

[bvar22]

74. Nailed It.

"Legitimate appraisal of malignant policy and discussion about how to improve the representation of our representatives should NEVER be silenced or swept under the rug in some misguided belief that doing so will help our party or our candidate.

In fact, I am certain that the opposite is true. I have absolutely no doubt that all the hostility and derision and contempt toward anyone who raises these important issues here has driven away more potential Democratic voters than it has attracted."

The only reason I'm still here is that I have a thick skin,
the ability to ignore fools,
and a 50 year history of STANDING FOR the Traditional Working Class Democratic Party Values of FDR/LBJ.

--bvar22
Formerly a Mainstream, Center FDR/LBJ DEMOCRAT,
now relegated to the Fringe Wacko Left Wing of the New Democrat Centrist Party.
I haven't changed.

[bahrbearian]

120. Thanks for the Link

I missed it the 1st time Love the OP and your reply.

[Mojorabbit]

127. This is just what I posted above

before I saw your post. You can hardly have a decent conversation without them showing up en masse and derailing the discussion.

[RKP5637]

21. Three things IMO. (1) The R candidates are soooo horrible that for

many the wagons are being circled around Obama. (2) I think with DU3 people are afraid to post negative things about Obama. (3) We are in an election year and given the Bush years, there is always the possibility of a R presidential win.

I've never been 100% happy with Obama, I've never been 100% happy with any president. ... but given the alternatives, I can be happy with Obama. And a 3rd party progressive win, not at all very realistic IMO in the US, at least not these days.

[deutsey]

26. DU is a great source of information, no matter what version it is

So through all the ups and downs here since I joined in spring 2001, I've remained a regular visitor. Sometimes I posted a lot, sometimes I lurked, but I've always checked in because I felt like I found a virtual place where I fit in and that let me know I wasn't so alone during the Bush nightmare.

Honestly, since '08 (and especially since DU3), I haven't felt like I fit in here as much and, although I still post, there have been numerous times that I've refrained from responding to something or posting my own OP because of that.

Which is cool with me. As I said, I still find tons of great info here and that in itself will keep me coming back. And there are many participants who post thoughtful and often hilarious things that I enjoy reading. However, I do more and more feel like an outsider than I used to.

But, as a wise philosopher once put it, "Oh, yeah, life goes on...long after the thrill of living is gone."

[AtomicKitten]

27. Some use alternate sites to express themselves in ways not acceptable here.

Advocating not voting or voting third party isn't allowed here; that rule has been in place from day #1. The election cycle ultimately sorts things out.

[JNelson6563]

31. That seems to be the case.

I know some who think DU is just an anti-Obama place and others who think DU is an extension of the Obama campaign.

I will say, DU3 does not seem to be quite as hostile toward actual Democrats.

Julie

[RC]

32. Define actual Democrat

Is that DLC or DNC leaning?

[JNelson6563]

33. As in identifying with the Democratic Party.

It's a bit of a broad spectrum, to the great dismay of some.

Julie

[RC]

39. The Left half, or

the Right half of the Democratic Party, that sometimes seems to overlap the Republicans all to much?
The Democratic Party is not just the Democratic Party anymore. There are a lot of DINO's.

[JNelson6563]

42. Yeah, ok.

See, out here in the Real World, I go to a Dem event, I don't inquire of the attendees if they are in the "right half" or the "left half" of the party. I consider them all allies and treat them accordingly. Interestingly enough I don't know of any of them much caring either. When we ask them to support our effort they donate.

Then we go and do stuff like support Dems in our community. Many more elected officials are at the state and local levels than in the glamorous world of DC. We work to get Dems elected to city and county positions, try to send more Dems to Lansing, get the damn fundies off the school boards, promote human rights for all ballot initiatives and the like. We sit together for hours assembling mailings, phone banking on behalf of candidates or causes and stuff like that.

Now I can assure you, the hundreds of volunteers I have had the honor to work with over the years were't all exactly of the same opinion on everything. We all supported different candidates in primaries, we all have our pet issues, as it were. But we knew if we were focused on our differences we'd get nothing done so we didn't waste the time.

All decisions are put to a vote and when an effort is agreed upon the work moves ahead. We tend to leave the hair-splitting categorizing & difference finding for those who have the time and inclination. I prefer to spend my time focusing on commonalities and building from that point.

Enjoy!

Julie

PS One last tip about RL politics, it's pretty standard for a caucus to accept as low as 80% agreement on issues to offer support to a candidate. And yet, somehow the world continues to spin, hard to believe.

[wildeyed]

43. Amen.

[Number23]

71. Go girl!

We tend to leave the hair-splitting categorizing & difference finding for those who have the time and inclination.

[Old and In the Way]

97. Huh...another real world Democrat.

[MADem]

99. I know you don't do it for the thanks, but thank you for your work on behalf of Democrats in your

neck of the woods.

It's easy to gripe on the internet, not so easy sometimes (particularly in cold weather) to do the schleppy and no-immediate-gratification work that builds and maintains the party.

[JNelson6563]

109. And Thank You back!

Encouragement and support from our internet friends means a lot! On to victory!

Julie

[nofurylike]

125. thank you for that Reason and clarity!

very well said!

"We tend to leave the hair-splitting categorizing & difference finding for those who have the time and inclination."

it is vitally important to be able to convey that! we have work to do, and it is crucial that we not feed the republicons!

thanks again, Julie!

[sabrina 1]

106. On the contrary, some on DU3 are very hostile to actual Democrats, which may be why so many are

no longer here. Actual Democrats never shy away from dealing honestly with important issues and they believe that elected officials need to be reminded constantly who they represent. We are not Republicans, who like freepers fear any dissent or disagreement and expect complete 'loyalty' to their chosen candidates regardless what they do.

When people accuse real Democrats of being Republicans for daring to hold their Party to accountable to the people they represent, that creates a very hostile environment for real Democrats.

That hostility is harmful to the Democratic Party and makes me wonder what the purpose of it is. As a real Democrat I want to see the Party swing back to the left. That is what I as a real Democrat will be working for.

[JNelson6563]

110. "Real democrats"

I suppose you are the decider on who's "real" and who's not.

True Scotsman....

So, how many "real Democrats" have you gotten elected to office, if you don't mind my asking.

Julie

[sabrina 1]

113. Um, I thought it was you and a few others above, who were deciding who 'real democrats' are.

Just wanted to correct that impression if you don't mind.

How many real Democrats have YOU gotten elected all by yourself, if you don't mind my asking?

I support Democrats like Grayson, Kucinich, Nadler eg, Real Progressives wherever they are running and always have. How about you?

[Number23]

70. You're right.

The election cycle ultimately sorts things out.

And many Obama supporters left DU a VERY long time ago. It wasn't that noticeable on DU2 when GD was brimming with anti-Obama posts and the home page of the site was full every single day of one anti-Obama screed after another. The numbers of supporters dropped considerably.

Add that to the paranoia on DU3 now over the jury system as well as the admins cracking down on the folks you mentioned (3rd party advocates etc) and it's no wonder the place seems quiet now.

[ProSense]

30. Oh

It seem from perusing the forums, that there is much less critical content about Democrats. Not as much back and forth about President Obama and the differences that exist on the left half of the spectrum.

...brother! This is a fairly weak basis for an OP.

You obviously missed the "dump" Obama threads and those advocating support for a third party. As for not as much "back and forth," there has been plenty. If missed, then the perusal wasn't very thorough.

I should know.



This OP seems to be just a continuation of the "victimhood" mentality that spawned the "DU 3 is going to be about censorship" freakout. Nothing of the sort happened. In fact, it seems to me posters are enjoying more freedom here.

Still, why isn't this in the appropriate forum?

[Armstead]

35. Some things never change I guess

[ProSense]

38. See

"back and forth"

Glad you joined us.

[MGKrebs]

36. Apparently Skinner missed those threads too.

[ProSense]

37. ?

The threads exist, but I'm not going to presume to know what Skinner missed or didn't miss.

[Union Scribe]

95. Have you been on vacation or something?

I hope your right-click finger is rested up.

[Romulox]

41. My impression is the purpose of most of the changes, going back to rec/unrec

has to been to silence critics. That's certainly how it's worked out.

[Vattel]

44. I think that the removal of the unrec has helped

to make criticism of Democrats easier to make. Now the unrec cannto be used to stifle criticism.

[grantcart]

48. I think that people are getting more interested about the election than before.

[DCBob]

50. The outrage brigade is definitely in decline.

Kind of miss them. They certainly spiced things up here.

[ellisonz]

51. Many threw their hands up and left...

[JoePhilly]

54. Shouldn't this question be posted in the "Help and Meta-discussion" forum?

[moriah]

59. Agreed.

[JackRiddler]

56. Swarm behavior has bludgeoned most of the interesting discussion to death.

You can see some of the victory march in this thread.

This place has largely succumbed to the minority who want a party-line parrot forum, and who seek to impose their extremely narrow idea of party line by way of verbal harrassment, calls to censorship and tombstoning. It seems the only acceptable function of this place to them is to act as a kind of adjunct to the DNC press release of the day, with an extreme hostility to contrary ideas. Either you repeat the approved talking points verbatim, or you are with the Republicans and "hate Obama." Although the default behavior is bully rhetoric and content-free ridicule, a few work hard to achieve amazing feats of sophistry in the assault on dissent. They are turning this place into a mostly empty echo chamber, yet the bizarre belief is also expressed that this highly alienating atmosphere magically "supports" Obama in the election.

[ellisonz]

61. +1

This Obama supporter says build a coalition, don't burn bridges.

[annabanana]

75. SOME of the "back and forth about Pres Obama" has been pulled

back naturally as the election looms closer. There is still an angry left here (ME, sometimes) around Justice Dept. failings etc etc.

So I think you are right on both counts

[ecstatic]

87. Obama's biggest critics don't like the transparency of DU3

They prefer the old format, where they can rec the really negative articles (anonymously), while unreccing anything positive about President Obama. Either that or they're now working with Gingrich /Romney.

[Fumesucker]

89. You got me..

The first time I found myself looking to see who had recced a certain topic I realized just how creepy it was to care so much about what anonymous people on the internet think..

I haven't recced anything at all since then, I've just about stopped posting and my reading here is way down too.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

93. They're also pillfering strawberries. You should look in to it.

[scarletwoman]

98. "...or they're now working with Gingrich /Romney." That's an unbelievably twisted thing to say.

Accusing some of the most progressive leftists that have ever been on DU of supporting republicans?!?

That's as ridiculous and unreal as Gingrich accusing Romney of being a "liberal".

It's shallow binary thinking like this that causes good-hearted people to simply give up - because trying to discuss the U.S. political system in depth with people who can't see beyond such simplistic dualistic constructs is like trying to conduct a discussion of quantum physics with a 2 year old.

[UrbScotty]

104. Not sure (s)he meant progressives. There are paid conservative trolls.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread738780/pg1

For almost five years, I was a paid Internet troll. Yes, I admit.

...

I cannot and will not name names, but after an internship at a firm with government and political party (Republican) contracts, I was offered the position of "Online Communications Associate" at another company by someone from the original firm for which I interned. My contract completed one year ago, and I have since moved on.

Utilizing six artificial personas, I was active in social networks and bulletin boards. But since I came to love and respect this site, as I stated, I never performed my functions here. Each week, I and presumably several others, were provided with information to use in our online postings. At first the information was comprised of fully conceived scripts, but as I became more and more experienced, it eventually became simple bullet or talking points.

Then, from Canada, comes this (and there's good reason to believe they're doing the same here):

[Yo_Mama]

88. Probably a result of the election cycle

There is nothing suppressive about the policies here.

Let's face it - even the Republicans are turned off by the choices they have. You can hardly expect a Democratic forum not to look at Obama and think "well, it could definitely be worse".

[nadinbrzezinski]

96. Silly season

I jst avoid well you know. It is silly season.

[scarletwoman]

100. It's good to see you again, Armstead.

I'm very glad you are here.

sw

[me b zola]

108. We're not in Kansas anymore n/t

[Horse with no Name]

111. My view

not that it is important.

I've stayed out of the fray. It does no good, there isn't a primary challenger and endless hand wringing about it doesn't change anything.

My focus went completely local. IF you come here and trash my local candidates, you are going to get a rise. National? Blah. They ARE all the same and stand for the same things. No amount of purty uplifting speechifying tricks changes that. I am resigned to "it is what it is".

I will advocate the things that are important to me. My posting has been fairly limited to the PP situation. THAT is important to me and I want to discuss it.

Perhaps if I hung around more, it would grow on me...but I have yard signs to put up and phone calls to make for my local candidates. The national race is already predetermined so I am not going to bother with it.

[noise]

114. Criticism of the Obama administration

was well and good during 2009-2011 but we need to move on. Rehashing the past is simply not productive.

[joshcryer]

116. It's because GDP didn't exist for a few weeks there.

Because we didn't have GDP a lot of posters who would have rather not debated Obama/Democrat criticism were forced to do so. It helped them grow a thick skin for being basically marginalized on DU2 and hiding away from criticism.

Once they got a taste for it, it was all over, and ever since then GD has been more diverse in opinion than it ever was. On DU2 GD was solidly anti-Obama / anti-Democrats. Here it's a mixed bag.

I do not see how this is possibly a bad thing.

It helps that a lot of people moved on to other "more leftist" forums like "Left Underground," "Rev Left," and one I recently discovered, "The Bell Forum."