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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe United States is the most hated country in the world.
<>The United States is the most hated country in the world, followed closely by Israel, and then by nobody. Why? Why not Ecuador? China? Russia? East Timor? The hostility puzzles many Americans, who genuinely believe their country to be a force for good, a pillar of democracy, a defender of human rights.
<>If you have lived abroad, as so very few Americans have, the explanation for the hatred is obvious: Meddling. Relentless, prideful, uncomprehending meddling, frequently military, often with horrendous death tolls. Americans, adroitly managed by a controlled press, historically illiterate, incurious, decreasingly educated, either have never heard of the American behavior that angers others, or believe it to have been inspired by virtuous motives. Nobody else thinks so. Add to unfamiliarity with the wider world the constantly inculcated assertion that America is the greatest, most wonderful nation ever to exist, a light to the world, a shining city on a hill, and you get a dangerously delusional state. Especially now. In the past, American economic and military supremacy were such that the US didn’t have to care what others thought. The times, they are a-changing.
<>Nobody beyond the borders buys our song about spreading freedom and human rights. America has supported countless sordid dictators rulling by army and torture chamber (the Saudis being a current example). We have put many dictators on their thrones, such as Pniochet (“That little wooden guy, his nose got long when he told a lie, right?”) in Chile. (“Isn’t that Texmex soup with beans in it?”) Others notice that the only country that openly and proudly tortures prisoners is…us.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34328.htm
"Others notice that the only country that openly and proudly tortures prisoners is…us." That one really burns.
What does this country stand for ...again???
I could go on and on but I will use one example of the surprise many get when they come to this country. I have a friend who came here from Zimbabwe, He and his family of course want to stay here. He is a pastor. One day at church he was saying how nice it was to have all this food on every corner it seems. I responded with the fact that though your stomach is full from that Wopper that your body is being assaulted with salt, fat and sugar and that you would gain 200 pounds and eventually die if you only ate Woppers and drank Pepsi. He responds with ...well that's better than what we've had over there. While that may be some what true it is reflective of the deception that the US projects ...many forms of propaganda "the land of milk and honey". It is a strange thing to say the least that once one comes to this country that they readily and usually willingly assimilated into our culture. My point here is this, that it doesn't take long for people who move here to become like us and ignore what many in other countries think about us. I am sure that my friend did not have access to a lot of truth about the US and its world terrorist like operations like many other countries have and know about. How easy it is for us to ignore what others think about us living our busy lives without the time to be concerned.
One of my fav music videos reflects what the Germans and EU have been assaulted with. Check it out ...it's not vulgar or offensive.
...then there is Green Day with the song American Idiot ...and they are American
...how fitting is that. At least someone here in the US has a grip on reality.
We're ok with torture and war and serfdom as long as we have our Woppers and Pepsi ...no matter what it costs us ...and other countries. I don't wonder why they hate us ...the reasons, all too many, are obvious to me.
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datasuspect
(26,591 posts)slackmaster
(60,567 posts)
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)slackmaster
(60,567 posts)
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)we are now number one on the top of the world's most hated list. Fuck the world!
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)I have no control over them, and I don't have to give them any control over me.
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)And we probably could never make them happy anyways.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Or WANTS the US to intervene in any way in their affairs? Your comment seems to demonstrate why we have lost so much support around the world. Eg, the outrageous notion that we have any right to intervene in the business of other sovereign nations. Where would this right come from, assuming this is what you believe?
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Countless requests are made to our government every year to intervene. Sometimes monetarily, sometimes militarily, most often for council.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)by his people. By the genocidal maniac in Uzbekistan who is also hated by his people and who gets millions from us. If the US listened only to the people, they would hear what the Egyptians, the Iraqis, the Tunisians, the Venezuelans the Colombians, the Chileans, the Afghanis, especially the women of Afghanistan.
We seem only to hear from the corrupt, greedy despots who care nothing for their countries but who enrich themselves by selling OUT their people for money from this country. And shamefully we provide them with whatever they want so long as they allow us to use their countries as we choose. As we saw in the Wikileaks cables, 'he's a bad guy, true, but he lets us place our military bases in his country'. And they know he tortures and kills his own people when they object to him selling out their country.
So no, 'they' meaning the people of all the countries we are interfering in, do NOT want us occupying their nations. But we always manage to find a few dictators who we support and keep in power, against the wishes of their people, to allow us to over ride the will of the people. That has been our history for decades, backing dictators and helping them to stay in power and turning a blind eye, or worse, helping them to oppress their own people.
Egyptians finally, after decades of trying, got rid of our ally, as Biden said 'he's a good friend and ally of the US' Yes, shamefully, willing to die, as over 800 of them did, and then made it clear they want all influences from the West out of their country. Of course we ignored that request and are backing the military there still.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Many for good things. You are only able to recognize one type of request. Of course most of what you wrote is true. We do amazingly good work around the world. We also take part in some very bad things. Things we have no business doing.
And I notice you went from interfering, to occupying. You have severely limited the scope of your original post.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)and in order to get permission to do that we have to support crooked, brutal dictators because the PEOPLE of those countries do not want our military in their countries. The people who rose up against their dictators in several countries recently demanded that the US NOT interfere anymore in their countries.
Please give me an example of a country where our interference helped the people since after WW2 keeping in mind that we have interfered in many countries in SA, in Africa and in the ME. I can't think of one frankly.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)We have intervened there with the help of other countries. The results are positive. There are many, many other instances.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)dictators around the world who we knew will were murdering their own people if they dared to try to stop them from selling out their resources to Global Cartels. We didn't just turn a blind eye, we know for a fact that the US encouraged these right wing dictators to suppress any liberal opposition to their brutal regimes. It happened in so many countries, and while we may have amnesia about this atrocious record, the victims will not forget. See the trials in South American nations now of our former allies.
We DO have a lot to offer IF we wanted to. But historically, for the past 60 years we have become the most feared country in the world and for good reason. I don't think the few good things we do in any way diminishes the shameful record we have wrt to the oppression and brutal treatment of untold numbers of human beings.
See Iran Contra and read about the victims of our policies across the globe. In Africa where there have been some brilliant leaders but who were certainly not supported by us, on the contrary. This country SUPPORTED Apartheid in S. Africa eg. It was the will of the people with help from other African nations, such as Libya that finally ended it.
The subject of the OP was why we are now the most hated country in the world. If we do not acknowledge the legitimate grievances many of these countries have against our policies, then we have no hope of changing them.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)But I was replying to this post at first.
sabrina 1 (32,544 posts)
142. What makes you think anyone needs the US to 'make them happy'?
Or WANTS the US to intervene in any way in their affairs? Your comment seems to demonstrate why we have lost so much support around the world. Eg, the outrageous notion that we have any right to intervene in the business of other sovereign nations. Where would this right come from, assuming this is what you believe?
Then this one.
sabrina 1 (32,544 posts)
171. We ARE occupying several countries. We have military bases in dozens of countries around the world
and in order to get permission to do that we have to support crooked, brutal dictators because the PEOPLE of those countries do not want our military in their countries. The people who rose up against their dictators in several countries recently demanded that the US NOT interfere anymore in their countries.
Please give me an example of a country where our interference helped the people since after WW2 keeping in mind that we have interfered in many countries in SA, in Africa and in the ME. I can't think of one frankly.
Now in this post you say we do good things. I agree. I was only disagreeing with your absolutes. As I said before, I agree with a lot of what you wrote. Just not the speaking in absolutes. For example, "I can't think of one frankly." You can think of many, and you later stated so.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)pointed one out so I accept that.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)But thankfully enough people are stepping forward to stop them now that they are scared they might lose that power.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)just kidding, slack
xiamiam
(4,906 posts)slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Their opinions have no value.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)is worth considering, I'm not sure what the problem is.
It's simple, some things are wrong and some are right. That is how you can tell an ignorant jerk from an intelligent person. The intelligent person will always be on the side of what is right. The ignorant person won't have a clue what the difference between right and wrong is.
Cirque du So-What
(29,732 posts)Since childhood, I've heard the refrain that the US sets an example for the rest of the world to follow: equality, compassion, vigilance against all the -isms, democracy, etc., etc. What good, then, is a nation that sanctimoniously tells the rest of the world what to do - all the while indulging in all the same bad behaviors they condemn elsewhere? From my perspective, the only area of leadership in which the US excels is consumerism and export of weaponry that the rest of the world uses to kill one another.
I find your attitude supercilious and chauvinistic - emblematic of the 'ugly American.'
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)We shouldn't tell anyone else what to do. When we do, they're entitled to ignore us.
Cirque du So-What
(29,732 posts)What you're saying, in essence, is that the US is free to do as it fucking well pleases, seeing that everyone else's opinion is just shit. Try telling that to villagers in some third-world nation whose environment is destroyed at the expense of extracting some mineral or other from the earth. How about invading and occupying another nation for the purpose of gaining control over their oil resources? Think the opinions of millions of Iraqis are 'junk?' If so, Dick Cheney and the rest of his fellow neocons give ya a big thumbs-up.
flamingdem
(40,891 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)And that makes you very typical.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)What are they going to do, cut off all the foreign aid money they've been sending us?
LiberalEsto
(22,845 posts)Examples of perceived arrogance:
- the American notion that we are the good country and everyone else sucks
- the idea that we don't need to bother learning foreign languages, and expect everyone else to speak English
- the attitude that Americans don't have to learn anything about the history of other nations and don't know what wrongs we may have done to other countries in the past
-our refusal to recognize the history of severe mistreatment and attempted genocide of the indigenous peoples in this part of the world
Because my parents were immigrants and because I have relatives in Estonia, I can understand the viewpoint of at least some Europeans
GP6971
(38,016 posts)I've seen some pretty rude and arrogant Americans in my overseas travel. All it takes is just one or two .......that's what the people remember.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)GP6971
(38,016 posts)
Brigid
(17,621 posts)
treestar
(82,383 posts)GP6971
(38,016 posts)
Paper Roses
(7,632 posts)My husband and I were in Germany several years ago. Met great people. Had dinner with a local we met. During our dinner, he said "I can't believe, friendly Americans."
We tried hard to tell him that we were all not power hungry snobs, I hope he believed it.
Marengo
(3,477 posts)but discovered something quite interesting. The western Europeans exhibited a level of arrogance and condescension that I was always led to believe only Americans were capable of. Many of the British, French, Dutch & German tourists I encountered alike simply could not control their disapproving attitude of China. Especially embarrassing were those who seemed to long for the "old China" of western fantasy or those who offered their opinions to the tour guides on how China can improve itself. Many of the Americans seemed more accepting or at least didn't show open disdain as western Europeans often did.
After an especially unpleasant tour in Xian with several insufferable Dutch & British tourists who were critical of everything, the tour guide said to me she preferred American clients who were generally more respectful. I noticed that while the Europeans seemed to be suffering terrible with the inconveniences of the developing world, the two young American guys in the group were having a good time and didn't feel the need to project their cultural and ideological superiority on Chinese working class people who are powerless to change anything.
Perhaps she was flattering me for a larger tip as the British fellow felt he had the need to say to me after overhearing us, but I chose to take it at face value.
It would not be the last time I would hear such a sentiment.
gopiscrap
(24,734 posts)and having spent half my childhood there, along with having a ton of German relatives, I was given a very different perspective on the news and the US's actions.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)gopiscrap
(24,734 posts)lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)threads.
treestar
(82,383 posts)It is too easy to claim it is envy. And we don't know what other countries would do if equally as powerful, most likely, the same damn things. Maybe worse. Would we rather have Germany as the one superpower? No.
The US has its flaws, but given its relative strength militarily and economical, it is a downright gentle giant.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)All the more reason to go on with war, torture and capitalistic exploitation ...because they would do it too.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Human nature is pretty much the same, so I'd think if Ecuador were a world power, they'd do much of the same things.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Wow ...not trying to reframe this but take that same line of thinking an apply it to the Banksters, War criminals, torturers, drone pilots ...you name it.
treestar
(82,383 posts)If you rose in the ranks of banking, you might have done the honest thing. Likewise other nations might do better as major powers, but we also can acknowledge that many of them would have done worse.
I'm estimating the US to be actually probably a rather gentle superpower. If we were an un-powerful nation and another was the powerful one, I'm estimating it would be far worse to live under domination of Germany, Britain (though they may have mellowed out since the times they were in domination), North Korea, Iran, Iraq, Italy, third world dictators, China, Russia or the USSR had that applied.
We might be OK with world domination by Australia, Canada or New Zealand. Maybe France (I would love that for freeper teeth gnashing purposes).
I base it on ideas of Democracy, self government, and the spreading of those ideas, even if not done perfectly. I'm really seeing the perfect as enemy of the good in this instance.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Got to wonder if France were the super power if they would still have national health care. I think we already know what would have continued if Britain were to have become the super power of our day.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Eventually, I think so. The British did free most colonies over time, but had they not would they not have applied the same standards? Some of those countries have a parliamentary system they might not have had without their years as British colonies. I can admit the British did contribute to the world and were first out in front in increasing freedom and self government - the fact it was the British we were a colony of is what gave us our inspiration. Our Founders knew the history of Britain, the writings of Burke and Montesquieu, to add the French in.
I had run across some information on Rhodesia. There was a British "rule" that a country could not be independent until they had majority rule. The Rhodesians - the white ones in charge - refused to go along with that. They looked like the jerks more than the British did. At least by that time the British had the idea that the peoples they had formerly colonized had the right to self determination. They didn't make them win a war for it, and in fact had the standard of majority rule.
Whereas, when the Germans took over a territory, we know how they handled it.
We have our flaws, but we don't directly colonize, we have a significant chunk of population that is against exploiting other countries because they have oil, we kicked Bush out of office - I can look at us and say we aren't the worst that could ever be when it comes to superpower-dom. In fact the world is better off because the other one in living memory, the USSR, fell apart. So we should work to improve rather than whip ourselves.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)about the tea tax.
the British did have some justification that we should pay for our defense, but they should have given us Parliamentary representation. Some were OK with the idea of and American Parliament or Americans seats in Parliament, but the Americans really wanted independence.
The course of history might have been different. My estimation is that if we were like Canada, Australia, etc., we'd have a Parliamentary system and probably a national health care system by now - we have the conservative drag from the Senate that keeps us behind even if we get a liberal majority. Of course that is just a guess.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Just in the past decade, the US has started two wars that have killed several hundred thousand people. I might give Washington a pass on running off the Taliban, but that a dozen years ago, and the killing has never stopped.
We're helping one side in the ongoing Syrian civil war that has killed about 80,000 people.
Our battle to save the Central Americans from themselves in the 1980s cost another several hundred thousand lives.
Five thousand dead in the invasion of Panama.
And let's not forget Vietnam, shall we?
Maybe we could have killed even more, but just because we haven't always acted like a murderous psychotic hardly qualifies us for the term "gentle giant."
treestar
(82,383 posts)Not that it excuses it, but I'm sure other countries when attacked in such a way do the same if not worse, if able.
I guess my point is we have not really imperialistically taken over other countries. Look at the British when they were the biggest power.
And what good does US hate do? It's like any other hate.
We have to try to do good in the world, not just whip ourselves. We could do better, but we are not the worst it could be by far.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Again no excuse, but not like we were trying to take over others - we had some good, if misguided intent. In those days, IMO we were actually better than we are now. Now it appears our foreign adventures are to get a better control of the world's oil.
This U.S. def. has flaws, but no country is perfect. Just take a look at all the "super powers" throughout world history- almost all of them conquered and increased their territorial gains all over the world. They enslaved defeated populations and exploited their resources. After World War 2 the u.s. could have done all of this...and more. We could have ruled japan like the UK ruled india, we could have annexed all of the asian and african territories we "liberated". Instead we chose to rebuild them. The product of this U.S. "domination" has been 70 years without a major world war, democratization of most major countries, economic liberalization, a greater respect for human rights and individual freedom, and much more.
Benton D Struckcheon
(2,347 posts)The rise of the South is unprecedented in its speed and scale. It must be understood in broad human development terms as the story of a dramatic expansion of individual capabilities and sustained human development progress in the countries that are home to the vast majority of the world’s people. When dozens of countries and billions of people move up the development ladder, as they are doing today, it has a direct impact on wealth creation and broader human progress in all countries and regions of the world. There are new opportunities for catch-up for less developed countries and for creative policy initiatives that could benefit the most advanced economies as well.
Although most developing countries have done well, a large number of countries have done particularly well—what can be called the “rise of the South”. Some of the largest countries have made rapid advances, notably Brazil, China, India, Indonesia, Mexico, South Africa and Turkey. But there has also been substantial progress in smaller economies, such as Bangladesh, Chile, Ghana, Mauritius, Rwanda and Tunisia.
From the latest UNDP Human Development Report: http://hdr.undp.org/en/reports/global/hdr2013/summary/
Not bad for this horrible unipolar world we live in. Fortunately for the future, between China and India neither will be able to completely dominate Asia, and that means the next few generations will get to live in a world where no one nation, including the US, is going to be able to dominate. The last thing it will be is unipolar.
If you think you could have got to this result with the policies of any other nation, think again. Do you really think China would have allowed the world the space to develop like this? We already know what the UK and the rest of the European powers did with their domination.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)can you believe there are even Americans who don't know how to spell Whopper? (says the unofficial Duke of typos who has never set foot inside a Burgher King)
Maybe they just hate us because we are beautiful? As the Palin-drone goes
"deliver no evil, live on reviled"
Auggie
(33,151 posts)that, in most part, dictate U.S. foreign policy.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,996 posts)Why not go have a "wopper" and a nice frosty mug of lighten up francis.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)I certainly don't need you or anyone for backup. Did you consult Miss Cleo to determine that I "want backup"?
Dreamer Tatum
(10,996 posts)when you post a dubious opinion piece and then launch into a diatribe about something you can't even spell?
Hissyspit
(45,790 posts)Personal attack and no counter-argument to the opinion piece.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)Terribly written, without citations or references to back up his claims: Dogmatic, unoriginal and lacking insight.
COLGATE4
(14,886 posts)Jenoch
(7,720 posts)then why do so many people wish to emigrate from their home country to the United States?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)I really find simplistic shit depressing. And your flavor of American exceptionalism isn't much intelligent than the rah rah brand.
Damn, I hate stupid.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)are making about the weak piece you posted? right. got it.
lame.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Jenoch
(7,720 posts)What does that mean?
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)that doesn't really exist. That's what I took from the "deceptive images" remark.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Jenoch
(7,720 posts)'deceptive images'. When you post it, I'll read it. I'll notice it easiest if it's a direct response to me. I sometimes don't get back to all of the threads on which I post.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,223 posts)You very rarely see immigrants from Western Europe, and most of them are here either to take a specific job offer that was too good to refuse or because they married an American.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)moving for economic reasons is why most emigration has been done, since the dawn of time. Eons ago, and more recent, people left one area to go to another to follow game.
My grandparents and great-grandparents left Europe for a better life here. I'm sure it's possible your family has a similar story.
Even more rare than emigrants from Western Europe coming to the U.S. are emigrants from the the U.S. going to Europe.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,223 posts)Believe me, I looked into it during the Bush administration.
In most countries, you have to either
1) Have a parent who was born in that country. In Germany, it's OK to have a grandparent who was born there. Unfortunately, my grandmother was born two weeks after her parents arrived in the U.S. "Conceived in Germany" doesn't count.
2) Have a specific job offer from a company that has gone through considerable hassle and paperwork to hire you
3) Marry or be in a domestic partnership with a person from that country
4) Be a wealthy retiree, and that works only for some countries, not for others
5) Start out by earning a university degree in that country and getting hired as a new graduate
6) Qualify for political asylum (No, I didn't, not even during the Bush administration)
I count as "none of the above."
I also looked into going to Japan, where many American expats live happily and where I am able to function comfortably in the language. Almost all of them are married to Japanese, however. The other route is to have a considerable amount of cash in hand to start a business. Being a free-lance translator doesn't count unless you've already proved yourself by having a regular job. However, it's hard to get a regular job unless you're under 35, since age discrimination is legal, and the society as a whole thinks that you should be settled down by that age.
So you see, that's one reason why there's not more two-way traffic. I think there would have been if the immigration rules hadn't been so strict.
However, I do know people who have moved to Latin America or Southeast Asia as retirees, simply because they can't afford to live above poverty level on their Social Security income in the U.S.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)live in SE Asia. One of them was a high school buddy who majored in international business, spoke fluent German and somehow ended up in Taipei. He was in his mid-20s. Now he has a Chinese wife and when people meet him for the first time after previously only speaking to him on the telephone they are shocked that he is American.
The other guy tagged along with a buddy to Japan when they were in college. He met a girl, they eventually got married and moved back to Japan. He teaches English to Japanese businessmen. She used to teach Chinese at Harvard but I don't know what she's doing back home.
Response to Jenoch (Reply #154)
Post removed
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)and US citizens are fleeing the country en mass.
xiamiam
(4,906 posts)problem is ya gotta have cash to do that..and most of us dont..less than 200 years ago we stole much of mexico and interrupted a thousands years of migratory pattern...this doesn't even address the fact that we just dropped anchor and decided to commit genocide on the actual true citizens of this country..interesting lens you see thru
take much... poor people come here all of the time. It is a matter of priorities and drive.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)But other english-speaking countries don't want Americans unless they are 1, young and educated, or 2, rich. If you are older, or poor, no dice.
I guess Americans, by and large, don't want to resort to being smuggled into other countries. We are soft that way.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)But as long as it ain't Amurikka, right?
Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)I thought only the "ugly Americans" didn't learn other languages.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)I've spent up to a month at a time in Peru doing research, and can barely get around in Spanish. Others who can easily pick up languages have more options.
Whole lotta hate and presumption going on here.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,223 posts)unless they're rich or have a parent who was born there or have a job offer or marry a citizen of their country.
olddots
(10,237 posts)America was hated because of the goobers that traveled to other countries acting like fools dressed like reality show morons and making fun of the natives.
I had a friend that got hassled in Greece because they thought he was English ---everybody hates everybody it seems ..............
Recursion
(56,582 posts)A lot of people have been very frustrated with us of late, but the most hated? Absolutely not. People might talk about hating America, but they sure seem eager to move to New Jersey.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)
RandiFan1290
(6,710 posts)
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"The United States is the most hated country in the world."
...they actually do polling on this. According to the most recent polling, the above statement is bullshit.
Europe less, China more popular in global BBC poll
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18038304
Views of US Continue to Improve in 2011 BBC Country Rating Poll
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/views_on_countriesregions_bt/680.php
http://www.globescan.com/images/images/pressreleases/bbc2012_country_ratings/2012_bbc_country%20rating%20final%20080512.pdf
Yavin4
(37,182 posts)Germany, the most loved nation on planet earth.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)"'Improve' from what point? It does take a long time to recover from Bush/Cheney hate."
...really matter? I mean, people are agreeing with a statement from some random person on the Internet that clearly isn't true. Sure the U.S. can do more to improve its image, but I fail to see how validating a false statement changes anything.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6286755.stm
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)the "most" hated but the US is certainly hated. You on the other hand seemingly want to discuss or argue whether or not the US is the "most" hated. How much and who does and doesn't is something that can be discussed here. I don't see the value in trying to shut down the discussion over the word "most". If you want to discuss or point out that we are not the "most" hated I am fine with that. I think it is a matter of what is your reality. If you are on the other side of a drone attack then yea the US is most hated by the victims. If you want to move here because of opportunities then the US is not the most hated. "Validating a false statement" ...because the writer claims that the US is the most hated and it isn't the "most" hated doesn't change the fact that the US is very much hated. All you are doing is trying to change the issue to one of whether or not "most" is accurate. "improve its image" ...hrmmm is that all that matters is "image"? I fail to see how invalidating the statement makes the US not very much hated and or not worth discussing.
the "most" hated but the US is certainly hated. You on the other hand seemingly want to discuss or argue whether or not the US is the "most" hated. How much and who does and doesn't is something that can be discussed here. I don't see the value in trying to shut down the discussion over the word "most". If you want to discuss or point out that we are not the "most" hated I am fine with that. I think it is a matter of what is your reality. If you are on the other side of a drone attack then yea the US is most hated by the victims. If you want to move here because of opportunities then the US is not the most hated. "Validating a false statement" ...because the writer claims that the US is the most hated and it isn't the "most" hated doesn't change the fact that the US is very much hated. All you are doing is trying to change the issue to one of whether or not "most" is accurate. "improve its image" ...hrmmm is that all that matters is "image"? I fail to see how invalidating the statement makes the US not very much hated and or not worth discussing.
...pointing out that it's a false statement is trying to "shut down the discussion"?
Oh brother.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)but then that is obviously not what you are into.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"It is not false that the US is hated. How much it is hated could be discussed..."
OP: "The United States is the most hated country in the world. "
That's false.
Europe less, China more popular in global BBC poll
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18038304
Views of US Continue to Improve in 2011 BBC Country Rating Poll
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/views_on_countriesregions_bt/680.php
http://www.globescan.com/images/images/pressreleases/bbc2012_country_ratings/2012_bbc_country%20rating%20final%20080512.pdf
Discuss!
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)From now on I will keep it in mind that you are not into discussing an intended topic. You point is well taken. The US is not the "most" hated. End of discussion on "your" topic.
From now on I will keep it in mind that you are not into discussing an intended topic. You point is well taken. The US is not the "most" hated. End of discussion on "your" topic.
...thank you. I mean, my response was specific (http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2523113) to the OP title, which for some unknow reason I thought was the topic.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)the headline "The United States is the most hated country in the world."
If you disagreed with the headline, you should have said so in the first sentence of your first post that contained your own opinion.
By the way, you started this thread, it IS YOUR topic.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)You know, you better start smartening up if you want to move to one of these other countries you think are so great, they apparently don't take in dummies like we assholes in Amurrikka do.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)"you think are so great" Oh really ...I said that? What's it like to be a rocket scientist? I think irony escapes you when you say "dummies like we assholes".
UnrepentantLiberal
(11,700 posts)Who did they ask? A better poll would be who most/least popular in each 3rd world country.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Kinda like the DOW at "record" highs which is more bull shit because it doesn't factor inflation. I don't think we are on the whole the "most" hated but we certainly are by a lot of people and countries ...and with good reason. I can't think of any US drone victim who doesn't hate us ...if they are still alive. It's all perspective.
malaise
(296,118 posts)Millions inside those borders don't buy it either so why should foreigners who know better.
That said there are things to admire about the USA which really is a work in progress.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)didn't like Mitt.
BBC World Service opinion poll: Obama favored over Romney
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021610977
Wonder why?
Romney sees 'jihadists' as possible global superpower
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022513746
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)the country that Romney did the best in against Obama happens to be the same country where the Birthers believe that Obama was born in.
aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)in his youth is the one that favored Obama the most and gave almost no support for Mitt.
Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)As Bush is to blame for the wars. But displayed as hating the United States.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)We were the big, brawny friend of the little-friend nations. When someone picked a fight with our little friend at the bar, brawny friend was there to either de-escalate things (by our sheer presence) or defend our little friend.
Sometime after 1950, we became the bully.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)OneMoreDemocrat
(913 posts)Which is sad.
Go live somewhere else for a year and then see if you bitch about the good 'ol USA nearly as much.
This is the BEST country in the world. Period.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)You know, the countries that could afford their awesome social democracies (and they are awesome) because our "bellicose imperialism" was footing the bill for keeping the Soviets from going farther west. (Expect "the Soviet Union didn't want to take over all of Europe" in 10... 9... 8...)
I don't hear this so much from those of us who have lived and worked in the developing world.
datasuspect
(26,591 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)But as Homer Simpson says, with facts you can prove anything that's even remotely true. Facts schmacts.
http://www.pewglobal.org/database/?indicator=1
sir pball
(5,340 posts)Leader of the pack...the Germans, 87% of whom are confident in Obama. Click 2006 though, it's a hoot..
valerief
(53,235 posts)callous our government is.
Newest Reality
(12,712 posts)were, are, and always be nothing more than ideas. There are those who internalize those ideas and identify with them in a way that reinforces their boundaries and ideologies.
Being for, against or ignorant of those ideas and boundaries, unfortunately, reinforces them, hence they prevail. There is only one source and location for all the resources and territory that prevailing ideas and agendas jealously and ruthlessly demarcate, i.e., this planet.
While the "cold, hard facts" of life are utilized as a means to support and exaggerate the abstract notions that there are real, concrete "lines" on the globe that indicate zones, ownership and sovereignty, ultimately, they are the result of imagination mistaken for reality itself.
As a basis, boundaries can be useful and give us direction as we move about and settle-down. When we take them to be anything more than consensual, (and often non-consensual) assertions and conceptual projections, the problems and suffering that ensue are obvious as history reveals.
Regardless of how many of us agree to the outcome of the imaginations of others concerning rulers, leaders, nations, states and such, we are only bound to that relative and limited view until we apply our own insight into how this comes about and maybe, resort to our own imagination.
libtodeath
(2,892 posts)untold billions spent to destroy poor people (who happen to be dark skinned) while we let millions here (many who also happen to be dark skinned) starve on the streets.
Is this something to be proud of?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Hey we're not the most hated ...so uhm we're not hated at all. Some people on DU can really suck sometimes.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"Hey we're not the most hated ...so uhm we're not hated at all. Some people on DU can really suck sometimes."
...propaganda and red herrings were only for demagogues. Who is arguing that the U.S. is "not hated at all"?
Disingenuous claims are likely the things that make DU "really suck sometimes."
Dustlawyer
(10,539 posts)government was the Shah of Iran. We had their Prime Minister hanged for treason. The Shah's military police killed all opposition. That is why Iran hates us. Oh, and the idea was BP's! They did not want to have to pay for the oil that the Prime Minister was threatening to nationalize. This was 1952. How those chickens have come home to roost!
Cleita
(75,480 posts)even before we started invading countries for no reason but our own enrichment.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Well, Fred has his finger on the World's pulse dontcha know...
I'm guessing he got hit in the face with the dodgeball as a child because he was standing there looking at this feet wondering why they couldn't get out of each others way... and he always got picked last for soccer (for the same reason) so now he stands on the edge of the pitch and screams "America SUCKS!" You go, Fred.
I'm guessing he also had a bad experience at Billy Bob's Rib Pit and needs someone to blame that on as well. So, he lashes out at all Americans. His ribs were dry, so he thinks all Americans are stupid even though he can't spell a simple word like "rule" ("rulling by army and torture chamber"
.
Fred says things like "...in 1988, the US Navy, in the form of the USS Vincennes, shot down an Iranian airliner and killed everyone aboard. Americans shrugged it off: Such things were doubtless necessary to stop terrorism." Who at the Rib Pit did he ask to get such an answer? Wrong. He doesn't deign to ask ANYONE at The Rib Pit a question because he considers himself to be so much smarter than them. He only made that shit up. Fred does a lot of that. He seems to spend a lot of time at The Rib Pit though, for some reason. Probably studying the local population for his next bestseller: "They HATE Us, and So Do I!"
Here's some shit for Fred to ponder... in 2009, (after EIGHT YEARS of Bush's reign I might add) The United States had almost 43 MILLION foreign born inhabitants, or over TWENTY PERCENT of the world's total. Russia's a close second at um, 12 million and less than 8.5% respectively. I wonder why that is? Why is it that The United States is home to more than TWENTY PERCENT of people who chose to live in somewhere other than the place they were born?
Yup. You guessed it... HATRED for The United States. That would be MY guess anyway, and it certainly would be Fred's as well.
For anyone who wants to check my immigration numbers, go to the UN website and download the .pdf called "World Population Policies 2009".
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)too, that has something to do with it.
Also, America is the only superpower left. Everybody hates the superpower. Who's gonna hate that little guy that sits at the back of class?
But we do meddle too much, it seems. But of course we have no idea the extent of the meddling!
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,223 posts)Most of our foreign aid goes to Israel, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia, and much of our total foreign aid is either military aid or subsidies to companies like Haliburton to build roads in some Third World country (i.e. the country that is supposedly receiving the aid never sees a dime).
Read "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" for the details.
My parents had friends who were missionaries in Liberia, and they were SCATHING about U.S. foreign aid projects. They felt that the money wasted buying expensive equipment and maintaining the American "experts" in luxury could have been used to hire Liberia's vast numbers of unemployed young men to build things with appropriate technology for what was then the prevailing wage of 10 cents an hour (this was in the 1960s). As it turned out, those unemployed young men became the main foot soldiers in Liberia's incredibly brutal civil war, which featured, among other things, the massacre of 300 people who had taken refuge in the church that my parents' friends had served. (They were retired by then.)
As a percentage of total GDP, the Scandinavian countries give more foreign aid, and almost none of it is military.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)In terms of the absolute value of aid given, the United States is the world's top donor by far. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/30/us-foreign-aid-by-country_n_1837824.html
The main countries we give to:
Israel (3B)
Egypt (1.5B)
Afghanistan (2.5B)
Pakistan (2.2B)
Iraq (2B)
Billions combined to a number of countries on the African continent, besides Egypt. And Jordan is signed up for $600M or thereabouts.
The U S is giving Saudi Arabia $10,000. That's right. Just $10,000. Wonder what that's about. Saudi Arabia is an uber wealthy country, so it doesn't need aid.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,223 posts)The poor neighboring countries of Latin America?
Not so much.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)promote our international agendas instead of for public works to help the people of those nations, which is supposedly what the intent is. Our diplomats look the other way and the people in those nations who really need the aid know that this is what is going on. It's why they often hold Americans in contempt.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,223 posts)until I had lived overseas, I didn't really know how insulated Americans are from the realities of the world, although I got a hint of it when my family took a 5-week trip to Europe to visit relatives in 1967.
Until the new passport laws of 2007, only 11% of Americans had a passport, and we are one of the few countries in the industrialized world (perhaps the only one) where a person can graduate from high school, and sometimes even from college, without ever studying a foreign language.
I got more international news in Tokyo's English-language newspapers (none of which are journalistic masterpieces, but they do serve a highly diverse group of expatriates from all over the world) than I did in most American newspapers.
When the Soviets went into Afghanistan in December 1979, when I was already back in the States, I was the only person in my circle of friends who knew that 1) Afghanistan had had a Marxist revolution in March 1978, and 2) that government had called in the Soviets to get rid of the precursors of the Taliban, who objecting with violence to the new government's plans to institute secular education and equal rights for women.
If you're getting all your information from the American media, you are uninformed or at least, misinformed.
aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)From poor people dying in the emergency room because they have no health insurance, to rampant murder sprees at schools, to the racist signs at Tea Party rallies and the spitting on black Congressmen by the right wing loony crowds.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)I kind of expect that though from a place where there is national health care and being gun less.
Rex
(65,616 posts)America almost tied with NK...which, I dunno really bums me out. I know none of us like to hear we came in fourth place. That is loser talk.
JVS
(61,935 posts)They've got moxie.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I hear we are asking them to keep Dennis, as a permanent liaison.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/03/opinion/avlon-rodman-korea/
tabasco
(22,974 posts)LOL.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)Most of them un or under developed. I have never found we were "hated". The only people I hear that from is people who don't travel outside of the U.S. and project their own views on the world.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I know because as a kid of mixed parentage, I could disappear, language and all into the country I was in at the time in Latin America. So when among the Latin Americans speaking Spanish that was at one time as good as my English and knowing the customs and etiquette of the country I was in, they spoke freely around me and they really hated the Gringos. By Gringos, it just wasn't Americans, but Brits as well.
When in the USA, people don't know I'm not 100% white American so they speak as freely around me as well. I had to cut off a friendship with a person who kept deriding Mexicans to me because he didn't know I was of Latin heritage as well.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)experience is that people do not hate America per se, but they are very upset at many things we have done.
I don't know if you caught my interview with Medea Benjamin about drones, but one of the things I related is that when I traveled abroad between March 21 2003 and around January 2008, the very next words after responding to where I am from with "I'm American" were "I was against the Iraq war and marched in protests against it". I learned to do that because of all of the outrage against us throughout the globe about that war.
Once I did that, I had no problems.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)So much so that many literally risk their lives to get here.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)and what our State Department and CIA have done in their countries to prop up the dictators of our choice.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)Why don't they also hate Spain and Portugal who brutalized that region before the U.S. was even thought of?
Cleita
(75,480 posts)My mother was the daughter of a Spanish immigrant mother and she was always embarrassed when her mother spoke with her Castellano lisp around her schoolmates. Her schoolmates made her life hard because of it. I went to school in South America for awhile and the teachers spared no hatred of the Spaniards in history classes.
mokawanis
(4,489 posts)They hate us for our ignorance and arrogance, among other things.
I just cringe when I hear American's say the US is the greatest country ever. A quick look at how we rank on education, health care, infant mortality, etc should be enough to stop that "America, fuck yeah!!!" attitude.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)even if they have never been to every single country in the world to say for sure. And what does being "the greatest nation on Earth" really mean? What specifically are we the greatest at?
chknltl
(10,558 posts)In my opinion we the citizenry of the USA should be greatly concerned with what the citizenry of this planet think about our governments activities outside our borders. Just as it would be ill advised to anger the workers in the restaurant one is about to dine in we as a nation need to consider where we get much of our nourishment from. Our economy is fully entangled with the economies of the nations of this world, we are all codependent.
It is a small planet we live on and it grows smaller daily. At some point the USA will cease being the bad neighbor. Hopefully that change will be a positive one which comes from the introspection of its citizenry.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)That said, one sixth of the world is Chinese, nearly a quarter is Muslim, and a lot live in left-wing South American countries, and an awful lot of each of those demographics probably do hate the USA, so that's going to add up to a lot of people, so it's not that implausible.
It's also not that meaningful, though - compare the number of people in the world who *know anything* about the USA to the number who know anything about Chad or Uruguay. It's hard to hate a country that's just a name on a map.
Godhumor
(6,437 posts)And I have lived abroad. Just a dumb article.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)...as is the fact that it is hated by a lot of people and countries ....dumb article or not.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Stopped reading right there. The author of the article is a moron.
France, UK, Russia, China for starters have lots of haters.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts) geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Blogging While Intoxicated.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Plenty of people do, including some US citizens and some DUers.
The point is that it's intellectually dishonest to pretend that there are really only two troublesome states on the planet that have earned the enmity of others.
Shit, ask people in India about whether they prefer the US or Pakistan.
SomethingFishy
(4,876 posts)This is the kind of shit that makes them say "blame America first". America does good.. and bad. The problem is arrogance. When we do something bad we don't admit it.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)While there is no doubt in my mind the US has done some pretty stupid things, and I have disagreed with those. The person who wrote that article (if you could call it that) is vastly overplaying "the world hates us" card though. I've found in South Korea there is an ebb and flow depending upon what is happening. During the Bush Administration we were very unpopular, not surprising given Shrub was up to no good. Since Obama has been elected things have been calmer and most people I've met genuinely like Americans. My FIL fought in the Korean War with GI. Joe (sorry, sarcasm) and was very skeptical when his daughter wanted to marry an American. While there are still times when we are looked on poorly, the recent joint military exercises with the South Koreans have reassured them that we are there to help. I have traveled to many other countries (I also lived in China for an academic year teaching) and have rarely had a bad encounter with someone (though some guy on a subway platform called me fat once, ok so that's true).
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)
Prophet 451
(9,796 posts)Full disclosure, I'm British. So many Americans still believe that the USA is the greatest country on earth, always righteous. They pull out the fact that the US has immigrants (because the media the US exports paints America as the greatest country on earth) as if that proves how wonderful the country is. When the rest of us look at the USA, we see a country that has a barbaric healthcare system (or lack of one), that outright despises it's poor and is always looking for a way to do less for them, that is fiercely nationalist, that lets anti-science and anti-history forces write textbooks, that is warmongering and where one of the main political parties is outright fascist.
There are good things about the USA as well. On another day, I could praise, for example, the responsiveness of your legislature (getting anything through the British Parliament takes forever). But if you point out any of the many ways the US fails to live up to it's "greatest nation" image, you get nothing but a load of assertions that it IS the greatest country, lots of excuses and lots of "we shouldn't care what the world thinks of us".
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)The US Government sits above international law. Although that's because it pretty much set it up by defeating other governments through various wars.
1. US
2. UN
3. Everyone else
Until that dynamic changes in some way, the US Government will continue to do as it pleases around the world, with no official consequences. The US military is the default global military of the developed world. The US won't be economically sanctioned. No other government is going to overtly do anything in retaliation.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)They just get the gist of what the article is trying to say, don't read the whole thing, and then it goes into the memory bank. Without reading it all, they don't realize it is nothing but poorly written bunk. They then tell their Buddy's, often in the same mental boat, "you know what I read". Then they say, "get 'r done, who cares bout them furiners". That is who this article was designed for.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Ahhhhh, I see what you did there. A little hyperbole, just like the poorly written article.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)a professional. We should all bow down to AP and Reuters like some do.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Last edited Mon Mar 18, 2013, 08:27 PM - Edit history (1)
Bowing down to AP and Reuters? You first claim said no one hates the us, and then that I am attacking the messenger. The first one was never said, and if the messenger is preaching to the lowest common denominator, I will say so. That is what that article is doing. Thankfully you aren't the messenger, Fred Reed is. So don't take it personally. Fred Reed is the one playing to the "get 'r done" crowd.
The article is about hate, the article is inaccurate and poorly written, therefore my first post stands with respect to how discussion worthy it is.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)
Spain:
Britain:
Soviet Union
Us
Next?:
Zorra
(27,670 posts)And the minds of over half the population of the US.
It will be difficult for us to end American Imperialism Exceptionalism.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)I will say that there are enough people that hate the US to cause us much trouble ...and we are making more of them everyday ...and with good reason. Mean while the deceptions roll on.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Who has also brought such gems as:
"Maybe I'm just a country boy at heart, and lack sophistication, and don't see things the way I should. But when I watch one of those radical-feminist women heave onto a podium, like the forehaunches of an under-nourished giraffe but with more hair on her lip, and start hollering and carrying on about what slugs and bandits men are, I start thinking of the curative powers of a shotgun full of rock salt. I recommend a 12-gauge duck gun."
and
"OK, I understand that the radical feminist ladies are a few french fries short of a Happy Meal. They can't help themselves. What I can't figure is why more-or-less grown-up editors publish all this clucking and scratching as if it made sense. And I also don't understand how the rules got fixed so that a Dworkin can say anything at all about men and get away with it--but men can't say anything back.
Any loon feminist can accuse men of being rapists, killers, sadists, and Marines. These are pretty serious charges. A fellow could take exception to them. But if I say something comparatively innocuous in return, such as that I weary of being harried by a rat-pack of diesel-fired tarantulas who mostly look like Rin Tin Tin's littermates--why, they get mad. (Yes, I know, that was a three-animal zoological-automotive metaphor. Patent applied for.)"
http://www.fredoneverything.net/COL1.shtml
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)"The liberal believes that the group has a right to control every aspect of everyone's life. He may permit many freedoms, but only those of which liberals approve. Abstract or general freedom holds no appeal for him. The limbic instinct of the inveterate liberal is to harry, regulate, and stifle the individual, of whose penchant for independent action he is profoundly distrustful.
Of course he does not think that he is stifling and imposing, but improving and instructing. For the unwilling he has no patience. The liberal is a creature of the homiletic herd, like a gnu wielding tracts, and believes in the “the masses,” in their infinite plasticity and potential for uplift and betterment, guided by him. Particularly he wants to uplift those who do not want to be uplifted, as their independence might be infectious. He sees himself in the capacity of the patient mother of a society of wayward two-year-olds who must be diapered, formed, and taught.
Thus his love of government in all its meddlesome intrusiveness, pedestrian witlessness, and unrestrained drive for dominion. He — or rather more often, she — knows that without coercion, some people will not do as they ought: that they will besot themselves, behave wrongheadedly, teach their children heaven knows what, and march off in all different directions. They must be restrained. And since the restrained usually find ways of evading the constricting tentacles, ever more and more-detailed laws must be enacted to thwart each new escape. Thus the government will eventually come to dictate the altitude, material, color, shape, texture, and compressive strength of toilet seats.
Liberalism is a feminine creed, embodying the kindness, short horizons, modest familiarity with reason, and placidity of the sex. It wants to buy people nice things without reflecting on how to pay for them. It believes in goodness but doesn't often get much further, being benevolent while falling short of beneficence. As good mothers will, it tries to protect everyone from everything."
http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed53.html
