About the two young, convicted rapists in Steubenville . . . . .

[Stinky The Clown]

Many of us were worried that this trial could have resulted in two obviously guilty young men being acquitted for a variety of reasons. That didn't happen. They were convicted and will serve time in juvenile prison.

While the victim will probably never fully heal, she can, with luck, good fortune, and good professional care, move on with her life.

I want to talk about the two young me. Specifically the fact they have to register as sex offenders. Which they are. And if they were tried in the adult system, that would be - and *should* be. BUt they weren't charged in the adult system. They wer charged, tried, convicted, sentenced, and will serve their sentences as juveniles.

There are good reasons that we have two criminal justice systems, one for adults and one for children. The line between the two often blurs, but there are, indeed, two systems.

I have long felt that we have these two systems because children are children. They're immature. Their core understanding of consequences are not fully developed. Their concept of finality is equally immature.

It is far easier to argue against harsh sentences for younger children. It is harder to do so for a 16 or 17 year old. But I tend to want to argue against adult punishments for *any* child who commits a crime. By law, these two young men are children. And the trial, as I understand it, followed proper and fair juvenile justice system procedures and guidelines.

But one thing jumps up for me. These two young men must register as sex offenders. As they should have to.

But should they carry that designation forever? Might it not be reasonable that they be allowed to petition for that registration requirement to be lifted at some point? I have not thought this out, so this is just an example, but maybe when they're 30? 35? 25? pick an age, they can petition the court for reconsideration?

I am neither apologizing for these rapists nor ignoring the victim. Instead, I am asking your thoughts on juvenile criminal laws and practices.

[Kalidurga]

1. They got off easy...

So, when do you think their victim will be fully healed? Do you think she will ever get over it? I hope she isn't going to be serving a life sentence, but knowing many victims of sexual assault I believe the odds are not in her favor.

[onpatrol98]

2. Sex Offender

A sex offender is a person who has committed a sex crime.

These young men committed a sex crime. Thus, they are sex offenders. You can't unring a bell. When this young woman is 25, 30, or 35, she will still have been a victim of a sex crime.

I know you don't mean to do it. But, it still smacks a bit like...these poor boys, stuck with this designation. But, this particular designation was earned. They worked hard for it. And, now they have it. But, you're really suggesting that the young men "will have suffered enough". I know you didn't say that, though. That designation isn't as much about punishing them. It's about protecting the rest of us from them. It's about alerting their eventual neighbors that the guy moving in next door has proven he's capable of doing some horrible $%^&. Our laws won't let us keep him incarcerated. But, we thought you ought to know before you date him, live next door to him, etc.

[mercuryblues]

9. That is it in a nutshell

I would certainly like to know if the guy next door has proven himself capable of drugging and raping women, all in the name of sport. Kind of a heads up to not invite him over for a 4th of July party.

Consider the sex offenders list as another weapon a woman can use towards protecting herself against rapists. Because it is to much to expect others to step forward as this case shows.

In this case, those young men dragged her around to different places/parties and NOONE stopped them. Not even adults. Not one of the planners of this crime (yes it was premeditated) warned the young woman.

I want to see more charges, not outs for rapists and their enablers.

[spooky3]

3. I think it helps to remember that several others the same age

expressed outrage, concern, etc., about what was happening at the time or when they learned about it.

I'll leave it to child development experts to address your question in depth, but my layperson's sense is that it is not unreasonable to expect people who are 16 or 17 to refrain from doing what these young men were convicted of doing and to provide punishment that fits the crime.

[uppityperson]

4. I think it depends on the individual case, but the older they are, the more likely they should

have to register and stay registered forever.

"They're immature. Their core understanding of consequences are not fully developed. Their concept of finality is equally immature. "

While I agree with that statement, this statement would fit many adults also. And is not an excuse or a pardoning or actions like they did.

I can see them being able to petition the state regarding the registration requirement, but also see that as something for everyone on the list. In reality, I do not know if there are people and hours available to adequately research all the cases, but it seems like it would be a good idea.

Rather like someone who is in prison and up for parole.

It will be interesting to see what others write here as it is a good topic for discussion and my mind is not set yet.

[Stinky The Clown]

11. You know . . . . I am always big on forgiveness, at least in concept. But . . .

. . . . . I'm not so sure I want an adult rapist to be able to lose the designation now that we have it available to us. On the other hand, I never thought Hester Prynne should have been made to wear what she was made to wear while standing the required three hours in the public square, let alone forever.

Maybe there's some middle ground. Maybe each degree of offense carries a longer mandatory time until they can petition with the highest degree without the ability at all.

As to the juveniles, I just don't know what a proper time is.

[forestpath]

5. Yes, they should carry that designation forever. I think they should have been tried as adults.

[JI7]

6. they should carry it forever , and they got off easy

[Posteritatis]

7. I'm more inclined to care about the life and future of the real victim. (nt)

[phylny]

8. I wonder...were they old enough to know that they wouldn't want someone to do the same to them?

To their mother? Their sister? Their friend?

Were they old enough to realize that they had to hide what they did after the fact, or did they think it was okay to do?

The answer to those questions will tell you whether or not they are should carry the designation forever.

[redqueen]

10. Yes, IMO they should be registered sex offenders for their entire lives.

They didn't just pee in public (which I'm told can land someone on that registry), they raped a girl.

IMO these crimes are treated much too lightly by society. In too many cases people won't stop defending rapists, and I know you didn't mean it this way, but this idea on this day, when they've been sentenced to two years for raping her and carrying her around to rape her some more... it does seem like too much concern for rapists and how maybe they're being punished unfairly. If they'd gotten the death sentence I'd agree. But this? And a registry? No I do not agree.

I wish you'd started this discussion on a different day, far removed from a time when so many gang rapes around the world have been so well publicized.

Maybe then the idea of whether juvenile rapists should bet let off the sex offenders list for life might seem more reasonable.

[DirkGently]

12. Question is whether we think they can be rehabilited

I know the hip thing is to scoff at the idea of prison being anything but punishment, but as Stinky points out, we have an entire separate justice system dedicated to the proposition that people below a certain age should get a shot at a clean slate. There's a much greater focus on diversion, education, and rehab than in the adult system.

So as to the sex offender status, it's not a question of making sure the young criminals are punished forever so they suffer as long as their victim. That's not what sex offender staus is for. The question is whether or not we think "kids" who commit this kind of offense are a permanent danger such that they should be marked as sex offenders in everything they ever do, forever. Are we really aiming for rehabilitation, and if so, do we think it ever works?

[Stinky The Clown]

13. You're asking good questions . . .

. . . . and that's how maybe it ought to be considered.

As I was thinking about this, I never thought it should be automatic that they lose the status, but it does seem reasonable that it can be revisited. A high bar is okay with me, but I think for juvenile offenders there ought to be a way to allow them to finalize their societal debt.

[Why Syzygy]

14. It is my understanding

that the juvenile detention system will determine at the time of their discharge whether or not they have to continue to register.

I've had some ethical questions about the stigma attached to this reporting system. But after watching this case, I believe it is warranted. It would be helpful if the adult system also allowed a method of redemption.

[femmocrat]

20. I heard that today, too.

You explained it so much better than I could! TY

[mythology]

15. When I was 17

I realized that I couldn't allow my biological dad to remain in my life because his constant verbal and emotional abuse was destroying me inside.

When I was 16 I was on a school trip in a foreign country. One of the girls on the trip got utterly drunk and passed out in what turned out to be my room. Apparently in her drunken stupor she got confused. Neither me or the other person who was actually supposed to be sleeping in the room with me did anything other than put her under the covers with her clothes on. We didn't rape her, we didn't take pictures of her, we didn't do anything like that. Granted I was a little annoyed that I wound up sleeping on the floor, but it didn't cross my mind that I should commit a violent felony simply because she wasn't capable enough to say no.

Unless there was some sort of compelling evidence that these kids were incapable of understanding right from wrong, then I've got no problem with them having to register as sex offenders. Especially given that one of these poor excuses for a human being lamented that they shouldn't have taken pictures, not that they shouldn't have committed the act, I don't see a lot of remorse.

Now if it were a case of an 18 year old sleeping with his/her 17 year old partner (or whatever the legal age difference is in Ohio), then I'd say that the label either shouldn't be applied or should be able to be removed.

[Stinky The Clown]

16. Following the apparent logic of your comments, it seems you do favor some route to redemption....

.... at least for children. It seems that maybe the only difference is at what point we'd consider a route to redemption for these two.

[geek tragedy]

17. Maybe when they're 45 or so, depending on good behavior.

These guys won't stop being sexual predators for a long time.

The sex offenders list warns people, and these guys are the kind of predator people should be warned about.

[snooper2]

18. I thought the judge does a review at 18 and decides on sex offender listing

anybody got facts?

[sir pball]

21. Near as I can tell

From reading this - they've been convicted of rape, which makes them Tier III offenders - both adults and juveniles must register for life, and verify their whereabouts every 90 days. Juveniles may petition the court to have their tier reduced, however.

Suits me just fine if they get denied though. Broken little monsters.

[LittleBlue]

19. I want all future women that they date/marry to know that the boys are sex offenders.

No woman deserves to blindly walk into a relationship with one of these perverts without knowing they are sex criminals. At least those women will have fair warning, unlike the young woman they assaulted.

[nolabear]

22. I think they should be punished, but also taught and evaluated and guided and yes, rehabilitated.

It does the world and the victim no good to carry this in its current state for the rest of their lives. She should be given every advantage in her course toward healing, but those young men need to heal as well, and I believe they can. To take away the chance for eventual rehabilitation leaves them nothing to look toward, no reason to feel as if they are a part of humanity and that being empathetic and caring are worthwhile.

THey are indeed young, and I think they can be helped by appropriate reparations and punishment, and a carefully monitored second chance until they prove that they are different.

If they do not offend again I'd advocate for removing the sex offender status after a while.

[Evoman]

23. They are fucking sociopaths. The registry is not to punish them, it's to protect us.

These young men are sociopathic rapists, who dragged a drunk girl to different parties and laughed at her. I think they even pissed on her after.

I think they got off light, considering what they did. But the law is what it is, and we treat child offenders differently for a reason. But do I think it's reasonable to keep tabs on sociopathic rapists? Damn rights.

On edit: Hell, it's possible from some of the comments I heard that they may even be serial rapists that have done this kind of thing before. It's obvious their remorse isn't real....they are just sad that their golden boy lives are over, as well they should be.