Ya know, I'd rather have all the catholic bashers leave than the catholics

[quinnox]

Just saying. If one group has to leave town by sun down, then I say let it be all the catholic and religion bashers!

My opinion. Lock this up if you must, I just had to speak frankly.

[nomorenomore08]

1. I think they should both stay. But put each other on Ignore.

nt

[brush]

105. How many times?

What I don't get is why this OP has been posted so many times? Enough already.

[RobertEarl]

2. No one has to leave

And I don't get why some Catholics are so lame.

[PatrynXX]

23. not the only lame ones

Some Atheists here are lame wanna shove their beliefs down my throat. Ignore probably the best thing. The 1976 thing is just zzzzzz.... He's the pope , rather work with modern issues.

[hrmjustin]

26. Come again?

[RobertEarl]

32. Heh

Jesus, I would think, is shaking his head over the reaction of the Catholics to their leaders being called out.

It is a lame reaction by some Catholics to be so upset upon hearing what other God's children think of Catholic leaders' un-Christian-like actions.

[hrmjustin]

35. I agree with you that Jesus is angry at those who covered up and committed crimes against children.

What I do not like is the Guilt-by-association that has popped up here recently. By the way I am no way saying you did that. I just wanted you to explain your post. Than you for responding.

[RobertEarl]

42. I'm a white male. So are the KKK

If i was a member of the KKK I would be guilty by association.

[hrmjustin]

51. The KKK is an evil org.

Why bring them up?

[zeemike]

52. I would re think that comparison.

The KKK was founded on an immoral principle and if you joined you did so because you agreed with it....so you are guilty not by association but by agreement with it;s principles...
The Catholics do not have the belief you should fuck kids...and none of them signed up for that.

[RobertEarl]

56. It was no comparison

It was pointing out the guilt by association concept has bearing.

As for myself, were I raised Catholic and became knowledgeable of what the leaders were doing, I would have become ex-Catholic. Just as I did leave my church when i found what a bunch of bozos the leaders were.

Actually, the KKK, afaik, was founded on moral principles, but became corrupted. Damn, now there's a comparison. Thanks for bringing that up.

[hrmjustin]

63. I disagree.

The leadership made those decisions not the laity. The laity do not have to give up their church because of the sins and crimes of the clergy.

[RobertEarl]

75. You are right

Members don't have to do a damn thing any priest tells them.

And neither do I when it comes to speaking my mind.

My religion is Christianity. What religion are Catholics? Who do I serve? Under who's authority do I bow? Not any man. So what do I care when someone says something bad about any church?

[Beartracks]

71. Poor decisions by the Church leadership no more represent...

... the Catholic faith than the policies of the Bush Cabal represented American ideals.

That is to say, why should Catholics "leave the Church" because the leaders made poor decisions? The Catholic laity have their faith, and that is separate from the Church's infrastructure and organizational problems, and separate from the moral failings of its leaders.

================

[zeemike]

78. Well sure it does...

If you join an organization that has as it's dogma immoral things then yes you are guilty by association.
But if you belong to a religion that has as it's dogma and principles something and the leader violates it, it does not mean all members are guilty too.

And that is bullshit propaganda about the KKK...it was founded as a direct response to reconstruction and the loss of the civil war....and they justified their violent behaviour by claiming they were doing it for moral principles...

[RobertEarl]

87. You may be right about the KKK

IDK about the KKK. I have heard people say that it became corrupted. All I know is that I would not be a member because of the things it does.

My religion is Christianity. It has but one leader. I do not bow to any man. I see that others do bow to a man in their churches. I don't have to like that or condone it or say that's ok by me. It is not ok by me, just as the KKK is not ok by me because of the fruits it delivers.

[hrmjustin]

93. I bow to a Woman.

My rector is a woman and so is my presiding bishop. My diocesan bishop is a man but he bows to the presiding bishop who is a woman. The presiding bishop bows to the archbishop of canterbury a man, but he bows to a woman the Queen.

[RobertEarl]

96. That's what I find odd about Catholics and others

Christianity means, to me, bowing before no man. Nor woman.

[hrmjustin]

97. Ok I understand your point.

You bow to God alone. But in the RCC and other churches like mine the Episcopal church we bow as a form of respect and clergy obey because it is the way the denomination is set up.

[RoccoR5955]

82. I'll have to ask Jesus himself...

...when he comes around to do the gardening!

[hrmjustin]

86. Was that meant as a joke?

[RoccoR5955]

88. No

Jesus is a guy who comes around and does some gardening for me. If you want to know what Jesus thinks, I'll ask him!

[hrmjustin]

90. LMAO!!!

[BainsBane]

74. that's not what people are reacting to

They are reacting to hatred directed at themselves simply for being Catholic.

[RobertEarl]

79. What does this mean?

"...simply for being Catholic."

[BainsBane]

81. Read the threads

It's all over the place. People have said all Catholics are criminals. They have accused ordinary Catholics of being complicit in pedophilia, misogyny, and homophobia, some in this very thread.

The problem is not criticism of the Church hierarchy. Catholics do plenty of that themselves. It's when members express hatred toward Catholics because of their religions. It's bigotry.

[RobertEarl]

92. Were those posts alerted on?

They should have been alerted on.

I do not think I have seen anyone really hated on because of their religion, except by the atheists towards believers, and we just turn the other cheek to them.

What I have seen is a hatred of some of the things the Pope and Cardinals have tried to hide and all the gold they hoard.

[BainsBane]

95. Yes

Most were allowed to stand. One I alerted on was just hidden. The offensive posts were allowed to stand because so many here share those same views.

It may primarily be atheists but it is not exclusively atheists. There are a few, and I emphasize few, adamant in the believe that Protestantism is superior. Many just don't mention their religious association and focus on their argument that their hatred toward Catholics is acceptable because religion is a choice.

I want to make clear I have nothing against atheists, agnostics, Protestants, Muslims, Jews, Catholics, or any other religion. I don't care what religion people adhere to or if they don't. And I'm perfectly capable of telling the difference between a Bishop, Imam, or pastor I see on TV and fellow DUers.

[JDPriestly]

130. Religion is a choice.

If you are happy with yours, great.

If not, you change.

But remember that we all need to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. And churches that are extremely intolerant should not be surprised when their intolerance comes back to them.

Also, some churches are less authoritarian than some others. I have a neighbor who belongs to an extremely authoritarian church. It is not Catholic. I feel kind of sorry for her. She is sweet, but oh my . . . .

I certainly don't hate her for it.

My husband who knows about these things reminds me that people stay with a certain religion very often because turning their back on it would mean turning their back on their family. That is especially true with regard to funerals, etc.

[BainsBane]

131. Yes, I understand you see it that way

As a product of a modern capitalist society in which we are increasingly severed from place, family and community,that is not surprising. If I had not studied history I might see it the same way. I understand that some people go from one church or new age fad to another. That is something I could not abide. So in my case, I don't go to church at all.

I know that religion is tied to ethnicity and ancestry. Empires have spent centuries trying to force people to change their religions. If people found it so easy and meaningless, the Irish would have converted to Protestantism long ago. Catholics in this country would have converted rather than being targeted by the Klan. Jews would have converted to Christianity to avoid being the target of genocide. Peoples of African descent would not continue to practice West African religions in Brazil and throughout the Caribbean if changing religion were so simple. Muslims in this country would covert to Protestantism to enhance their upward mobility. But peoples have not seen religion as something so easily discarded. To those connected to family and community, religion is part of their culture and key to who they are. Anyone who studies history or anthropology learns this.

[Rhiannon12866]

132. Very well said.

[BainsBane]

133. Thanks

[Rhiannon12866]

134. I totally understand what you mean

My Dad's side of the family is Irish - and Catholic. It's just what they are. I appreciate them because they're completely secure in what they believe, no proselyting from them. And they're also loyal Democrats.

[RoccoR5955]

80. I dunno if Jesus is shaking his head...

...I'll ask him when he comes around to do the gardening.

[abq e streeter]

3. Amen (pun intended)....from a non-Christian agnostic.

[sharp_stick]

4. I know you miss meta

but fer gawds sake please find another outlet.

[dkf]

67. Did something happen to meta?

[Fumesucker]

5. Why should anyone leave?

It's a political discussion board, everyone gets their feelings hurt at some point, it comes with the territory.

[quinnox]

8. heh

I just had to say it.

[CBHagman]

16. It's more than hurt feelings.

A lot of what I see amounts to community standards violations.

[Fumesucker]

20. The only community standards are those a jury votes to uphold

If a jury hides it then it's against community standards, if they don't hide it then it's acceptable, Skinner's position is that you take your chances.

As I said on another thread, a sixtysomething white male Southerner like me learns to have a very thick skin on DU. And an atheist like me learns to have an even thicker skin living in the deep South like I do.

[PatrynXX]

24. as an open minded person the

whole jury system is corrupt I won't serve on one. just anti free speech.

[snooper2]

30. so you're letting "the man" make the decisions for you

[CBHagman]

43. The community standards are posted on the site.

The jury members go in with access to those.

The terms of service, and not the individual member, state that this is supposed to be a friendly environment.

[Fumesucker]

54. Meh, I'm a sixtysomething white male who lives in the deep South

DU is remarkably unfriendly to me, I read posts on a regular basis that call for kicking the South out of the Union and anyone who lives here who is not a Fundie Republican can just go pound sand as far as they're concerned.

DU is not a friendly place to a lot of us, not just Catholics by any means.

The TOS and community standards are two different things.

[progressoid]

6. I'd rather forum hosts would lock non-GD posts.

[MattBaggins]

12. But it is called general discussion

I wanted to post in General Discussion but they wouldn't let me talk about anything specific.

[progressoid]

13. General Discussion Statment of Purpose..."No whining about DU"

[MattBaggins]

14. wouldn't that make DU disappear?

[reformist2]

136. LOL!

[pintobean]

21. You're whining too

Were you whining about Trumad's thread?

[progressoid]

22. I know!

Lock them!

Lock me!

[Nevernose]

70. They tried a system for a few months

In which, if you posted in GD or LBN, you had to choose a secondary forum. After your post fell off the main page or two, it reverted to the secondary forum. I liked, but apparently I was the only one. I think such a system would work much better on DU3.

[gateley]

108. I don't even remember that! Like listing an item in two eBay categories. :-)

When was that?

[Hissyspit]

7. OP not helpful.

Last edited Sun Mar 17, 2013, 11:38 PM - Edit history (1)

[Buzz Clik]

9. Everyone can stay as long as they admit that I'm always right.

[quinnox]

10. lol

[MattBaggins]

11. Only if we can send the MRA goons with them.

I mean us. I forgot I'm an atheist who finds belief in invisible beings silly.

I'll pack my things.

[defacto7]

46. It looks like everyone is packing their bags.

I think we should all just chuck the baggage and stay home.

(vague double meaning intended)

[EvolveOrConvolve]

15. Just curious why you think either group would have to leave?

And why it would be up to you to make a decision like that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. It/ getting well over the top

It's acceptable.

http://www.amazon.com/New-Anti-Catholicism-Last-Acceptable-Prejudice/dp/0195176049

[rustydog]

18. I disagree, who has been forced out bysundown?

One longtime DUer has voluntarily decided to leave because of other posters over-the-top rants against the beloved Catholic Church.
Why force anyone to leave simply because you disagree with what many may feel is a legitimate stance?
Why would one voluntarily leave and not stay and defend one's religion if oneis so strongly influenced by that religion?

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Here

http://www.amazon.com/New-Anti-Catholicism-Last-Acceptable-Prejudice/dp/0195176049

Really...

Learn the difference between laity and hierarchy. Lord knows I am not Catholic and I know it.

[dsc]

33. Really?

A bunch of people who have as a leader a man who literally equates marriage equality with Satan's work now is whining that they, and only they, are discriminated against. Sweet Jesus.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. No, unless the authors s the pope

You seriously are telling me the US has not had this problem? Not just Catholics by the way.

But serious, you are ignorant of that history?

[dsc]

39. well I'll tell you what

When Catholics get barred from marrying, commit suicide in droves to escape bullying, and have to wonder if they can hold their lover's hands at night for fear of getting beaten, then they can write books about how they are the last people who can be discriminated against, until then, well I don't have much patience.

[defacto7]

50. Although I don't always agree with the way you communicate your point

I will have to give you this comment as right in the corner pocket. You can't argue that.

[zeemike]

69. We seem to know so little about history.

There is probably no religion on earth that has not suffered persecution.
In Ireland during Cromwell's time, the Catholics had their land taken away from them and given to Protestants.
In the south before and after the civil war, you were not much better off if you were black or Jewish than a Catholic...
I think that these false equivalencies just make us stupider..

[dsc]

77. again the problem isn't that they say they have been persecuted

they say ONLY THEY are persecuted. Really, only they are persecuted. I am just flabbergasted.

[zeemike]

85. Who said that?

I was raised a Catholic and went to Catholic school...never once did I hear that...
And I am flabbergasted too hearing you say something that is new to me.

[dsc]

89. the title of the book is the last acceptable persecution

that means only they are being persecuted.

[zeemike]

94. I guess I read English different than you

Last acceptable persecution implies that there are other persecutions that are acceptable and so it can't mean it is the only one.
Otherwise you wold just say the last persecution.
But when did it happen that if someone rights a book they speak for all?

[nadinbrzezinski]

117. Here us the tittle

The New Anti-Catholicism: The Last Acceptable Prejudice (Green Chemistry Series) [Kindle Edition]
Philip Jenkins (Author)


Now I don't know about you, but Jenkins is not claiming it is only poor dear Catholics who are getting persecuted.

There is persecution of other groups. He just happens to specialize in this one...which we all though died with Kennedy's election, like Racism died with obama's election...or you forgot the declarations of a post racial US?

I will give you the benefit and assume you are first young, and second think that only LGBT people are persecuted these days.

So we are clear, this is an all but complete list.

LGBT
Blacks
Latinos
Immigrants in general
Catholics
Believe it or not to a point Mormon kids.
Women
Poor
Jews (yup it is alive and well)
Muslims

This is very much partial and the levels of persecution depend on geography in some respects.

If you decide to compare the size of the chip on the shoulder you will only help in keeping people from seeing each other as well...we...

[dsc]

119. first of all I am 45

second I never said only gays are persecuted, but he chose to title his book THE last acceptable prejudice, not AN acceptable prejudice. The definite article the means only one exists. He chose the title of his book. If I were to write a book entitled Homophobia: The Last Acceptable Prejudice I would deserve to be called out on thinking only gays were being persecuted. He wrote the book, he picked the title, he deserves the grief.

[nadinbrzezinski]

120. Academics do that regularly

And I intend to read it, cause I am not in denial...and this board has seen a lot of this as well.

By the way, that list I posted, I qualify for three huge chips on my shoulder...I chose not to act on them. Why? Any prejudice is rather unhelpful.

For the record, stay away from the Journal of the American Historical Association...I highly recommend you run from that one. Let's not start with the sociology journals, or poli sci. My god, the tittles of some academic articles will have you in fits.

Another little secret for you, the editor chose that tittle.

[dsc]

122. fine

how dare I intimate that it is harder to be gay in this country than Catholic. I mean until 2003 sex between Catholics was illegal in over a dozen states only to be overturned by Lawrence vs Texas. I mean Catholics couldn't openly serve in the military until 2011. I mean in over half the states, Catholics can be fired from their jobs for no reason beside them being Catholic. I mean a few weeks ago at the NFL combine athletes were asked if they were Catholic. None of the above are true of gays. No wait, never mind, the exact opposite is true. All of the above is true of gays and none of it is true of Catholics. It literally boggles the mind that a group of people who belong not only to the plurality religion of the country but have literally been protected from discrimination for generations have the unmitigated gall to complain that they are the last group who are acceptable to be discriminated against. But, yeah I have the chip on my shoulder.

[nadinbrzezinski]

123. None of us is saying you are having it easier or harder

But you know what? Have a good day. Enough of this my chip is bigger than yours.

And yes, things are changing for LGBT at light speed, for the better, right now.

But hey, I say that as an outsider.

So have a good one. I have tried to address in one day two other major issues... Perhaps tomorrow will deal with two or three more. Lord knows we have something going all the time, and I have a low tolerance for this intolerance shit.

And you know what? If you are to compare chips...my cousin lives in Mexico City, he s LGBT. Boy you want to compare notes? Or perhaps the cross dressing women I had to come to bat for at the General hospital (men, they were beaten). Of my more recent advocacy for another person who was LGBT at my local San Diego hospital.

I mention this to make a point...the size of the chip is a question of perspective. You mentioned LGBT kids who get bullied...well guess what sparky...the list of groups I posted...it happens to each of them...some to the point of suicide. Some to the point of murder.

I used to carry a few large chips, but I learned, great way to keep all of us divided. And you know what? Since we have been talking Catholics....some in the hierarchy are real assholes...they tend to have control. Then you have some parish priests fighting for their congregation and against their hierarchy. There are also internal fights that most f us can suspect at, but hardly prove...

Yes, as an organization they have the same fights we all are having. But if you think all Catholics are evil, well you are doing to them what many of those men in the hierarchy, or the Republican Party, are doing regarding LGBT or other groups.

No, it is not god...I personally have little belief in a god, but men do have changes of heart and culture changes. We are in one of those historic moments. That said...the church is so large...change will take time. It has to do with issues well beyond the borders of the United States.

So support those who are trying to change it.

[Bluenorthwest]

140. In 29 States it is perfectly legal to discriminate against LGBT people in employment and housing.

How many States allow discrimination against Catholics? Your comparison does not hold up to even the most casual look at the facts at hand.
It is sad when people who are oppressing others claim they are the ones being oppressed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

141. You know what is hysterical....

You missed what I said about chips, and how they are being used to oppress by dividing people against each other.

Bigotry *is* bigotry..

The best part is...I am not even Catholic. I am Jewish. Any other things you'd like to say?

Oh and one more thing sparky, tell me exactly where I said the LGBT community is not oppressed.

I want a direct quote.

[ButterflyBlood]

126. Please point to me how Catholics are persecuted and discriminated against in the modern day US

People saying mean things about the Catholic Church on a message board if that's the worst they have to put it up with makes them quite a bit better off than the other groups I'd say. Especially when you consider how active the Catholic Church is in in discrimination and bigotry against many of those groups.

[Skittles]

62. it is completely ridiculous

and yet they DEMAND respect - enough already

[MattBaggins]

47. When was the last time a council of female atheists

was invited to the white house to discuss men's reproductive rights and health insurance rights?

Far from the last acceptable prejudice.

[roguevalley]

29. for some every response to a defense

is you are stupid to believe in invisible sky men. every response. sometimes getting called stupid makes a place no fun to be. disagreeing without being disagreeable is not always practiced here. just mho.

[GodlessBiker]

25. Meh.

[geek tragedy]

27. This explains the hostility to feminists. nt

[snooper2]

28. I say we have a simple test..

let the bunny decide...

[truebrit71]

31. Sure, keep the self deluded, and ditch the realists...

...makes perfect sense...

[Egalitarian Thug]

36. Science will fly you to the moon, religion will fly you into buildings.

Frankly speaking, when religious fervor results in more people believing in angels than evolution, let alone seeking to understand it, that should be a clue that perpetuating a fantasy as if it were real is probably not a good idea.

[madrchsod]

37. ignore is your friend....

i do`t agree with everything that is posted here. i`ll either ignore or respond with my opinion.

[MattBaggins]

48. That offends me

some how... let me think on it awhile

[20score]

38. Needs some context. Really don’t know what your complaint is,

because I haven’t spent much time here lately. (Too busy.) But I hope you’re not saying that people shouldn’t complain about the Catholic Church and its pedophilia scandal, or its misguided foray into conservative politics, prioritizing limiting birth control access over helping the poor?

Is that it, or is it something else?

[defacto7]

57. There's a huge ongoing war

between the those who wish to defend faith, defend the way opposing views are discussed and non-theists and theists alike who wish to speak unabashed. It started during the Papal conclave and has escalated since the new pope was chosen. The posts are all over. Have fun... and meta is gone... good riddance.

[Apophis]

40. A Catholic wanting to banish non-Catholics.

Where have I seen that before?

[CBHagman]

41. The anti-Catholic posts are consuming a lot of energy...

...and they are alienating longtime members. How does that serve the mission of DU? How is that in harmony with the terms of service?

[url]http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus[/url]

Democratic Underground is an online community where politically liberal people can do their part to effect political and social change by:

Interacting with friendly, like-minded people;
Sharing news and information, free from the corporate media filter;
Participating in lively, thought-provoking discussions;
Helping elect more Democrats to political office at all levels of American government; and
Having fun!

After more than a decade online, Democratic Underground still hosts the most active liberal discussion board on the Internet. We are an independent website funded by member subscriptions and advertising, and we have no affiliation with the Democratic Party. Democratic Underground is a truly grassroots community where regular members drive the discussion and set the standards. There is no other website quite like it anywhere on the Internet.

We are always looking for friendly, liberal people who appreciate good discussions and who understand the importance of electing more Democrats to office.

[url]http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice[/url]

Do not post bigotry based on someone's race or ethnic origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, religion or lack thereof, disability, or other comparable personal characteristic.

(SNIP)

Don't do anything else which is similarly disruptive. Just because it isn't listed here, doesn't mean it's ok. If you post anything which is obviously disruptive, malicious, or repugnant to this community, its members, or its values, you risk being in violation of these Terms of Service.

There's nothing in there about disallowing someone because of their beliefs or the lack thereof. There's nothing there encouraging the sowing of discord (in fact, quite opposite).

[Thinkingabout]

44. We should be tolerant of religion or one's desire not to participate.

[mountain grammy]

45. I don't want to bash any religion, everyone has a right to their own beliefs

It's when those religions mess with public policies, contribute to campaigns for (and against) candidates and public initiatives, and influence government officials that I get upset. Religious organizations do, after all, live here rent free. They have no business choosing the landlords or making the rules. The business of running the country and communities (government) is best left out of the hands of faith based institutions. Our Constitution requires it.

[defacto7]

58. I'm with you grammy.

[Rozlee]

73. Hear, hear.

This is the biggest reason I became hostile to religion. I never went after them. They have always come after me. Whether it's trying to take away science in school, discriminate against me because I was an atheist in the military, hound almost every reproductive center and abortion clinic out of many states and base my character on my beliefs or lack of them, religion has always been intrusive in my life and unwelcome. And our country and it's people suffer from policies made by those who take religious texts literally in interpretation and pass laws and policies that affect everything from the things we teach in schools, to how we conduct our foreign policy. End Time prophecies rule some of our policies toward the Middle East and we're losing our country's edge in science thanks to biblical literalists and their anti-science agendas. Not to mention maybe even our planet, since they seem to want to usher in the Apocalypse and are only too happy to rattle sabers whenever they can. Witness how conservatives have been trying to reignite the Cold War with Russia because of the End Times prophecy that it will invade Israel.

[mountain grammy]

100. well said.

[RoccoR5955]

84. And I will bash ALL religions,

because they are nothing more than a brand of mythology, that seeks to control the masses.

[D23MIURG23]

49. So what?

Usually "religion bashers" (by which I assume you mean atheists) have an actual reason for criticizing whatever religion they are down on. If you actually bother explaining your opinion next time I might not ignore it.

[lindysalsagal]

53. I still hold a grudge

about the non-brain-washed like myself who were burned at the stake, for not believing in the unbelievable. Ok, ok, it was 500 years ago, but, hey.
Let's remember that america is here for 2 important things:

Freedom of/from religion, and freedom of speech.

If anyone wants to believe in invisible, all-seeing, all-knowing sky gods, well, they certainly can. If their faith in this god is strong enough, non-believers like me shouldn't bother them.

The annoyance might come from the annoyed-person's doubts.

And,
athiests don't have beliefs: They have science.

[defacto7]

60. "The annoyance might come from the annoyed-person's doubts. "

bingo.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

64. I like the part that God is a male bipod who looks like me (except for the invisible part).

[cordelia]

68. You hold a grudge over 500 year-old events, and you think people have doubts about

their beliefs because of hateful snide remarks on a message board?

Really?

Also, need to point out that:

1. Theism does not equal disbelief in science.

2. The correct spelling is "atheist".

[lindysalsagal]

146. I hereby nominate cordelia for Lord Head Magistrate of the Spelling Police.

Any seconds?

[skepticscott]

55. Don't hold your breath

As long as the Catholic Church continues to hold to philosophies and continues practices that are antithetical to the fundamental principles of this site, and as long as people here continue to support and defend it, the criticism will continue. Just as it will for a multitude of other people and organizations doing the same thing. This invented notion by Catholic DUers that they've somehow been singled out for criticism is simply ludicrous.

When you get that change from within thing accomplished (which to hear it, should be any day now), let us know and we'll take another look.

[hrmjustin]

66. Have you every heard of changing the church from within.

You have the right to be critical of their church as i am all the time, but people have the right to stick with their faith and not be bullied about it.

[skepticscott]

142. Nobody has been "bullied"

They've been criticized and their principles and priorities called into question. As noted, that happens a lot on this site, to all sorts of people, members and otherwise.

[hrmjustin]

143. There is a difference in saying the church is wrong here and here with I as a christian do all the

time, and Telling people they have to leave the church because staying enables child molesters and making it seem like guilt-by-association.

[SylviaD]

59. This site has a real problem with anti-Catholicism and anti-religion sentiment in general. nt

[JEB]

98. Well if this is a persecution contest,

you should have to listen to the crap I get for praying the powerful almighty FROG. He has powers that are hard for most to comprehend. Yet people ridicule me with no regard for my feelings. FROG however gives me the strength to carry on. Someday I hope to travel between this world and the spirit world as frog can in an instant.

[SylviaD]

144. Is this similar to that ridiculous pasta monster? Its not funny, nor is that. n/t

[JEB]

145. How about banning

all FROG bashing posts? They serve no real purpose but to denigrate a persons personal beliefs. Nothing funny about it.

[Skittles]

61. why does anyone have to leave?

you cannot FORCE people to respect something they do not respect

[LibDemAlways]

65. DU is supposed to be a place where like-minded Democrats can discuss issues of interest to

Democrats. I assume there are people on this board of every faith and no faith. I have no problem with discussion of religion as long as it's respectful. What someone chooses to believe or not to believe is a personal matter and should not be held up to ridicule. I don't think anyone should be made so uncomfortable that they choose to leave the board. A little civility would go a long way.

[BainsBane]

72. I agree because I despise bigotry

of all stripes. I despise the bigotry of the Catholic Church hierarchy against gays and I despise the bigotry articulated by fellow DUers against Catholic members.

[Logical]

99. Bigotry of GOP supporters? n-t

[BainsBane]

102. Perhaps you can point me to the part of the constitution

that protects people based on political affiliation?

I BTW, don't hate Republicans per se. I do grow irritated with ignorance, but there is a great deal of that to go around across the political spectrum.


Are you here advocating for fairness toward the GOP? It you want to suggest Skinner modify the purpose of the site to include Republicans, I suggest you take that up in ATA.

[Logical]

106. Really? Disliking religous groups is banned in the constitution??? n-t

[BainsBane]

110. discrimination is

under the First and Fourteenth amendments.

Speech, no matter how odious, is also protected by First Amendment. There is no requirement that people value human equality. Legal equality is a constitutional premise of the nation, but the First Amendment guarantees the rights of anyone to be just as hateful as he chooses, as long as he doesn't institute that hatred in discriminatory ways.

Your concerns of unfair treatment of Republicans should be taken up with Skinner.

[Logical]

111. So your argument is posts on the DU are breaking laws? n-t

[BainsBane]

112. Try rereading

carefully this time.

[Logical]

113. I think you are exaggerating. But pretty sure you realize it. n-t

[BainsBane]

115. no

Hate speech is legally protected. So obviously no laws are broken unless people ENACT that hatred in discriminatory ways through hiring practices or other legal measures.

That doesn't mean it's not hateful and repulsive, however.


I'm pretty amazed I had to explain that post to you.

[Logical]

135. Lol, you bring up your hatred of bigots then realize the....

Discussion on the DU about religions is protected speech!
And are ok with GOP.bigots!
Funny!

[ButterflyBlood]

124. The First and Fourteenth amendments don't prohibit discrimination by private individuals

The First Amendment just says Congress can make no law restricting or endorsing religious practice. That has nothing to do with an individual disliking or mocking religious practice. The Fourteenth Amendment just states conditions on which a person may not be denied citizenship or the right to vote. Which has nothing to do with banning private discrimination.

Of course individual laws in almost all states do prohibit religious discrimination, but that has nothing to do with the Constitution, and "Fuck the Catholic Church" is not a discriminatory statement. Nor any more offensive to me than "Fuck the Church of Scientology" is.

[BainsBane]

125. why is reading so difficult?

[dsc]

127. actually religious discrimination is banned by federal law

so gay business owners can't fire evangelicals who work for them but evangelical business owners can fire gays who work for them.

[ButterflyBlood]

128. True but federal statute is not the same as the Constitution

I though would most certainly be in favor of still prohibiting gay business owners from firing evangelicals just for being evangelical (as well as prohibiting anyone from firing gays), being both an evangelical myself, and very LGBT-supportive. I would however not oppose allowing gay business owners to fire people vocal with anti-gay views that create a hostile and uncomfortable work environment, whether those people be evangelical, Catholic, some other type of Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, something else or non-religious.

[NYC Liberal]

76. I'd rather have thoughtful discussion and debate from both sides

[AAO]

83. People should let others live their lives

As long as they don't infringe on the rights of others.

On edit: There is no freedom from being annoyed or insulted.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

91. Is it considered "bashing" to want them to put their money where their mouth is?

[Douglas Carpenter]

101. amen!

[Cleita]

103. Thank you.nt

[alp227]

104. Wow is DU turning right or something?

Sometimes I wish DU's mission was to look at things from a reality-based POV - that is a secular one. But America is such a religiously addicted nation that Antonio Villaraigosa vetoed the DNC vote to strike out God from the party platform.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

107. "Sacred Cows make the best hamburger." Mark Twain

[Bonobo]

121. LOL! I love it. nt

[rhett o rick]

109. Good grief. Why are you trying to fan the flames? nm

[Puglover]

137. Because Meta is gone?

[Behind the Aegis]

114. Can they take the anti-Semites and thier buddies with them?!

[LeftyMom]

116. Too fucking bad.

[datasuspect]

139. for once

i agree with you.

bunch of whiny ass, fake persecution complex BULLSHIT.

[catbyte]

118. My mother suffered physical & emotional abuse from nuns at the Indian School

she was forced to attend and carried the physical & emotional scars her whole life. No one ever apologized. I have no use for the RCC, but ymmv.

[Thegonagle]

129. Me too. nt

[bowens43]

138. no one has to leave. What a bunch of nonsense.

Seriously if you can't take it leave.