Public Shaming (Steudenville thread)

[ismnotwasm]

The worst of the tweets
(Trigger warning)

The victim-blaming, slut-shaming reactions to the Steubenville rape case keep pouring in. You can check out my first post on it here. Pointing out the worst responses and reactions to this all would not be complete without posting a clip of CNN grieving over the “ruined lives of the boys.” Watch that HERE.

http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/

[abelenkpe]

1. wow

that site is full of the most foul disgusting hateful bigoted ignorant comments ever made. I have never been more angry. Can't even type correctly....

[Warpy]

54. I imagine most of them are from boys in their tweens to their mid 20s

because adolescent male culture still states that girls owe sex to them. Numerous surveys have been done over the years and they're equally ugly in this regard.

One summary is at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10023100

One thing that might help is comprehensive sex education but good luck getting that anywhere but the more enlightened cities. The conservatives would rather put up with rape squads on the sports teams.

(And don't bother replying with MY SON posts. There are always a few outliers to any statistical norm and good for you if you raised a freak, most boys have appalling attitudes.)

[abelenkpe]

68. What gets me are the posts from women!

You'd think there would be more solidarity.

[niyad]

70. years ago, I read somewhere in talking about this very issue, a study on lobsters. if you put

one lobster in a pail, it will try to climb out. if you put several lobsters in a pail, and one tries to climb out, the others will pull it back down. women have been enculturated in this way, and, sadly, many of them do not seem to realize that pitting women against each other is a great control technique for the patriarchy.

[musical_soul]

83. The biggest problem is probably the women.

They're too busy standing up for animals to stand together.

[Warpy]

99. "Something had to be wrong with her so it can't happen to me"

I know that psychology all too well. It's why having women on juries is not an automatic conviction for any rapist. A lot of women don't want to accept the fact that to a lot of the men out there, we're not human beings, we're just things they use to masturbate into and whether or not we want them to is completely irrelevant. They'll do what they have to do. Alcohol and drugs are just easier than a gun or knife.

[seabeyond]

72. actually, we keep giving it to the kids. studies have come out it is the middle aged men throwing

this shit out. not only or even mostly teens.

we have a real problem in this nation, and beyond.

[In_The_Wind]

2. imo: There are a lot of very sick people posting vile shit.

[ismnotwasm]

3. Yeah

And some of them seem so young, it really bothers me.

[In_The_Wind]

4. It is what they are learning from their parents. Don't blame the kids.

[ismnotwasm]

5. That's what think

I think that about bulling too. Not 'go pick on that kid' but but NOT teaching what is and isn't acceptable in social interactions.






(And do surprise visits to the school if you can)

[In_The_Wind]

6. were you aware

that I was an investigator for child protective services?
imo: In cases like the Stubenville Rape case: perhaps a fine should be levied to pay for the care after the fact. Parents should not get away their lack of proper parenting.
Providing counseling for the victims will not be cheep. But extremely necessary.

[ismnotwasm]

9. No I wasn't

I have a friend who works as an expert nurse witness in child molestation cases. In all honesty, I couldn't do it.

Parental accountability, there should away to work with that. In my state if your kid gets caught shoplifting, the Parents pay a fine. I always a fan of situational appropriate community service.

[In_The_Wind]

10. indeed

It wasn't easy. Now as a private citizen I still try to help when possible.
I will not stop blaming the adults where any child is concerned. They were not born bad.

[niyad]

16. can only begin to imagine how difficult your job was. as far as fines go, my thought, in addition

to after-the-fact care and counseling, that the rapists and their parents should have to pay for whatever protection and security the victim and her family are going to need (given the death threats just today)

[In_The_Wind]

19. The death threats are unforgivable. I left CPS when I woke up every morning with tears in my eyes.

Children are never the same after living through the trauma I've seen.

The first child removed from an unsafe environment was ASPCA. Can you believe that.
Children are out future. What are we doing. This has got to stop.

[enough]

7. It's also what they're learning from every kind of media. (nt)

[In_The_Wind]

8. The media are feeding the public informatory information.

High ratings bring in the advertising dollars.

[seabeyond]

73. lol. i blame the kids also. as a parent i am very much into parental responsibility. i am also

very much into personal responsibility. many kids do not have parents that do their job. after a certain age, a kid does not get to use that as an excuse for wrong.

so, kids need to figure this out on their own. having a part of my family, where kids were raised without the parental guidence all kids deserve, i have to let these young adults know this, so maybe, hopefully they will not walk the same path their parents did, giving them a life of hell.

[In_The_Wind]

78. imo: We all need to work together for a healthy society.

When parents fail (as mine did) it is up to others to step up to the line and lend a hand.
When I removed a child from a neglectful home .. my next job was to implement a service plan to educate parents re: proper care.
It helped some of the time.
imo: not enough. Removal of repeatedly abused youngsters goes on all the time. And yes ... children who are hurt as children (because of their own pain) will pass the poison onward. It takes a lot of work, counseling, supervision to make a change. It is worth the effort.

[seabeyond]

81. yup yup yup

[In_The_Wind]

86. I will do whatever I can to help when possible.

OT ~ I was really surprised yesterday when old business took me back to the little town we had to move away from (thanks to Bernie Madoff). The toll collectors ask where I had been.
I left both of 'em laughing. The bank manager was so happy to see me. She was like family helping to take care of problems my husband always seemed to cause. I try to find a smile inside of everyone I come into contact with. Change happens one act of kindness at a time. It's too bad that haters continue to hate.
Oh and DUers attack other DUers just for bloodthirsty fun. They make me want to puke. on 'em if I could. Grow up DU haters. Put hate_away!

I am happy to chat with you seabeyond.

[seabeyond]

97. and another... yup yup AND yup.

grinnin.

[In_The_Wind]

98. Thank You!!!

[Luminous Animal]

11. This is rape culture.

[Sheldon Cooper]

12. Yes it is.

And if there is anyone who can still claim it doesn't exist, or they don't think it's really all that bad, they need look no further.

[Luminous Animal]

14. I've got it bookmarked. It will come in handy.

[Fawke Em]

33. But... but...but... someone will just get offended that they couldn't

hold the door open for you.

I didn't chime in on those threads, but it was clear to any reasonable person that you, redqueen and seabeyond where NOT talking about holding doors open.

[Iris]

59. ^ <3 ^

[Luminous Animal]

100. Thank you.

[bench scientist]

38. yes, this is the very definition of it.

That poor young lady is being victimized again, now on a national scope.
vile.

[Squinch]

80. And so many deny that it exists even though it's in our faces all the time.

And in the faces of children who are forming their opinions.

[kdmorris]

13. That is horrifying

I couldn't make it through many of the replies. How incredibly vile...

Can't believe we are still dealing with these kinds of "blame the victim" remarks in this day and age...

[Bonobo]

15. Those reactions are disturbing to say the least.

It is ignorance combined with a lack of empathy combined with group-think.

It IS a rape sub-culture and I only call it that because, thankfully, I think such thinking is limited to certain pockets of the country.

[niyad]

18. and what pockets would those be?

[Bonobo]

24. Just my opinion...

But I am never afraid to share that.

I would say a Venn Diagram with circles that involve some interplay with:

Lack of education
College or High School sports groups or frats in rural areas
The South

And NOT so much:
College/HS in blue states such as N. Cal or Massachusetts, etc.
Better-educated kids from Democratic families

[niyad]

27. anywhere there is rape, there is rape culture, including CA and MA.

[Bonobo]

39. I agree. Pockets of rape culture. nt

[Fawke Em]

37. That's class and regional bias bullshit.

The difference is in parenting and what we teach our BOYS, as well as our girls. I've already discussed this with my 13-year-old and we live in the South. He knows I'd kick his ass if he did something like that.

Many parents are too overworked or too media-influenced to teach their children much about anything, much less about difficult subjects like rape.

[bettyellen]

45. Nope, It's at NYU, Columbia and Rutgers too.

Been there, saw that. I think we stopped a rape at pretty much every frat party we went to. It seemed normal at the time.

[Bonobo]

50. Yup, that's the pocket of frat culture that I mentioned. nt

[bettyellen]

51. It's not just the less educated, or Southerners. Not nearly.

[Bonobo]

55. Yes, you are correct.

Like the rogue elephants, young men, especially in packs, can exhibit bad behavior indeed.

[bettyellen]

56. we need better messages to break out of this group think

because there's way too much validation of this shit in the mass media.
CNN made me want to puke Sunday.

[Bonobo]

57. I haven't been to the US in over 3 years so have no idea.

But honestly, I find it disgusting.

You know what calms down the rogue elephants? They release older, experienced male elephants and they beat them into line.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500164_162-226894.html

[bettyellen]

60. there was a really interesting article comparing the experiences of elephants and child

soldiers- that so many young elephants had witnessed their parents and community's slaughter.
We digress.

[Bonobo]

62. Not sure it is a digression.

I just found an interesting article that I put in an OP.

Please read the entire link if you have time.

[Squinch]

88. So we should add colleges in blue states where there are frats. And

we'd need to add places that look like Steubenville: middle class towns of middle America where high school and college sports are idolized. Pretty giant pockets you've got there.

[Bonobo]

90. Well the frats themselves are the pockets.

And even then, many in frats do not engage in such "culture". So really not as big as all that.

Same campuses and you would find most students appalled at the thought of raping a drunk woman of course.

[Squinch]

93. No. The frats themselves, if they are allowed to exist and have this culture, are

part of the culture of the school. Where these kinds of frats are allowed to exist, the college itself is engaging in rape culture.

[Bonobo]

94. That is a fair point.

I will give it some thought. Thank you.

[Iris]

61. Our entire culture is a rape culture.

Don't kid yourself that it isn't.

[Bonobo]

63. I don't think I am kidding myself.

If I point to a place where such actions are unthinkable, would you call that a "pocket of non-rape culture"?

If so, then we are merely disagreeing about semantics. About which is the "pocket" and which is the "normal background".

I think it is the rape culture that represents an anomaly, a sickness. So I do not consider it "normal" but rather an aberration.

[Iris]

64. Um. Ok. n/t

[Bonobo]

65. Ummm, like sure. n/t

[Iris]

66. yep. whatever you say. n/t

[Bonobo]

67. Uh-huh, fer sure. **n///t**

[Squinch]

92. But so far your pockets include: the South, which is a third to half the country

depending on how you define it, middle american sports towns, colleges where there are frats, places where education is substandard, and places where there is poverty. I'm sure if we think for a minute we can add to this.

You're including more than you are excluding.

[seabeyond]

74. not only is it not pockets, it is around the world. glaringly obvious. nt

[niyad]

17. I managed to get through the first three or four before I got sick. what vile, filthy, ignorant,

hateful things were posted. but, a perfect example of the rape culture. beyond sickening.

[In_The_Wind]

20. I agree. It was bad!

When did rape cultures start? I was totally away from all TV for a few years while I was traveling for work.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Blaming the victim is older than you or me

[In_The_Wind]

23. Oh. I know that.

When I was nine it my fault. At least that was what my stepmother told me.

sigh. I'll never understand that. Which is why I will defend the victim's rights.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Me too.

[In_The_Wind]

30. I am very sorry.

I hope my post didn't trigger any bad memories.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Oh no, I just always take the side of the victim

As a medic transported a few...the hardest were actually our male patients. Rape does not hapen to men...ah, a few screaming matches with investigating officers and doctors.

[In_The_Wind]

34. Rape does not happen to men.

bullshit

Thank you for all that you do. imo: your job is far more difficult than mine was.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. We all matter in this.

And my tolerance for this BS is low.

You take care.

[In_The_Wind]

43. I agree.

Thank you.

[seabeyond]

75. i made it about three, maybe four. nothing surprising, though. expected. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Jock culture + rape culture

Yup

[Butterbean]

25. I am just so disgusted and shocked and horrified.

Then I made the mistake of scrolling down and read the racist tweets about the Pope and the President. Holy SHIT.

It's just shocking to me that crap like this ever even goes through another person's brain. I cannot wrap my head around it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. You too? I was all but surprised though

I know the type...so I know that thinking is out there.

[Butterbean]

36. I am sheltered, I guess. I have never personally met such people.

Reading those tweets made me feel like I was reading stuff from another century. I have never encountered such backward, neanderthal, zero logic thinking. Really and truly.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Over the years I have done research off and on

On white supremacy. It's ugly. Those posts are par for the course. I like to call it the dark underbelly.

[Butterbean]

46. I think my jaw would hit the ground and my stomach would twist in knots

if I ever heard someone talking like that out loud. My God. Disgusting. Vile. Putrid. Subhuman.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Yup

But they do walk among us.

We have hate groups...and that is a reality.

[PDJane]

29. I don't get any of this.

I really don't get why it's the girl's fault at all. It's just not anything that is logical.

[geek tragedy]

32. Misogyny is cultural and learned. Just like racism, it's completely illogical. nt

[LAGC]

35. Scrolling down quite a ways, some people really hate the First Lady.

What ignorant racist tripe!

[one_voice]

41. This poor girl is being...

victimized over and over again.

Breaks my heart and makes me so very angry.

Parents need to be made aware of what their children are saying. I know in some cases they're saying what they hear their parents saying, but that's not true in all cases.

Fuck, this is sad.

[MrMickeysMom]

44. What a culture...

I don't know where to begin because it appears that anything I see lately just gets trumped by the next utterance of hate.

Hate's got a hold on us right now and it knows no age group. The relative of one of the boys threatened the rape victim. It's NOTHING to make these threats known to the public either, which is stunning.

"ruined lives of the boys"? ... uh uh... No, I'd say it's ruined the reputation of what passes as the sons and daughters of a society in deep shit.

[all american girl]

48. All I have to say, is that I have never been raped or sexally assaulted but

I have trigger stuff going on after reading that crap. I'm glad to see not much has changed since the 1980's....

[davidn3600]

49. It's even on huffington post!

Some of the things allowed to be posted on there is unbelievable...even from people who claim to be "liberal" and even women.

[bettyellen]

58. yep, women go along to get along too. LOL, we have those cheerleaders here too.

[justiceischeap]

76. Just FYI, there are a lot of conservatives that post on HuffPo comments.

They feel it "balances" things out. Not to say that liberal females can't be culpable of those kinds of comments, because they can.

[Catherine Vincent]

52. I'm speechless!

So I'll just shake my head.

[ismnotwasm]

53. It is isn't isolated to this case

The social media culture has brought out the worst of rape culture in a way, because like the kids that 'watched' at those parties, in Steubenville, these people seem to have no idea what they're saying is wrong.

It's what Sandra Fluke endured for speaking out

It's what Zerlina Maxwell endured for speaking out

It's what Anita Sarkeesian endured--- she made a video criticizing the 'damsel in distress' tropes in video games and received threats of rape and violence.

It wrong and disgusting and as much as I love the Internet for allowing diverse points of view to be expressed, it can also show the ugly side of how some think, or play follow the leader.

[AngryOldDem]

69. The wrong person is being shamed.

But then, I can't say I'm surprised. High school jockocracy might as well be the Fifth Estate in this country. Athletes, especially at the high school level in towns where high school sports are king, can do abso-fucking-lutely NOTHING wrong. Same goes for college level.

My oldest went to a high school like that, where the athletes were treated as gods and got away with a lot of shit.

And I had a roommate in college whom I suspect was date raped by a member of the basketball team. Her reaction whenver she saw him was visceral.

My heart goes out to this girl. She is being victimized a thousand fold.

[meow2u3]

95. Damn right the wrong person is being shamed

When the hell will the media start sympathizing with the victim instead of a those pieces of filth who ruined her life? I'm sick of this jock culture that gives star players a license to rape and destroy the life of the girl who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[seabeyond]

71. this would be our rape culture, if anyone is confused. nt

[justiceischeap]

77. You're wrong sea, there IS no rape culture.

It's just something women make up so they can blame men for everything.

[musical_soul]

84. It's not about blaming men...

It's about saying men or boys who are rapists shouldn't take responsibility for their actions when they should. I would think
that's rape culture.

Plenty of good men out there. One is Attorney General Mike DeWine.

[justiceischeap]

87. There have been posters on DU (male and female) that think that rape culture

is nothing but an excuse to blame men for everything. Hence, the sarcasm icon. I know there are plenty of good men out there, I live with 2 of them.

[Squinch]

96. And it's all in our heads. Silly us.

[Myrina]

79. Question:

Are those 2 jackasses going to be required to register as sex offenders?

They certainly should, and it should haunt them the rest of their lives.
To hell with them for what their arrogant asses did.
They can wear that scarlet letter & I wish them good luck living a normal life, the fuckheads.

[riderinthestorm]

85. Yes they have to register as sex offenders nt

[musical_soul]

82. Our culture is something to be ashamed of.

We still don't hold women up to the status of being considered human beings.

If somebody is a football player or somebody else beloved in the community, it's clear we're supposed to let it go.

I commend this young girl, her parents, and the prosecutor for standing up for what's right.

[gollygee]

89. Wow. I didn't see this thread yesterday.

This is just horrifying.

[bamacrat]

91. Fuck these guys.

I don't give a shit one way or another what a girl does, she doesn't deserve to be raped. While given the quality of many young men in our society, some girls may need to think about what they wear or how they act in certain situations, but nothing they do warrants this. Drunk girls with short skirts are not asking for it, but I wish they would avoid parties with over alpha male douche bags in attendance. In reality, public is a better place to flaunt what you got, not a private house party. Sad that people come out in defense of these ass holes saying she asked for it.