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Making Porn hurts like hell
The performers may look like they're in ecstasy, but the physical pain and endurance that goes into sex for the camera would make an NFL linebacker weep. By Aurora Snow
Portrait of me in the middle of a typical porn scene: Sweat drips down my face, my overworked legs are wobbly, my jaw might ache from being open too long while my neck burns from being twisted into an awkward angle.
Being an adult performer is not easy money, as the preachers like to say. It’s a little like being a high-risk professional athlete—stamina is required. While everyone is entitled to love or hate “skin flicks,” I think most people harbor misconceptions about the work. Remember that pornography is shot with the viewer in mind. In the summer there is no air-conditioning on the set (too noisy) and it’s not always, or even often, glamorous.
Like many other adult actresses, my first few scenes, which were shot in May of 2000, were the stereotypical easy-money kind: some regular vaginal sex where I played the wide-eyed innocent guided by the seasoned male. Fresh meat sells well—the roughing-up came later.
Over time the “new girl” scenes no longer appealed to consumers, who want to see diversification from steadily working performers, and scenes that progressively up the ante. Over the last decade this process has gained momentum—girls that enter porn in 2013 have to be ready for extreme acts earlier on in their careers. Because of this acceleration, there is about to be a generation of porn performers who have spent the majority of their years in porn doing extreme sex acts. I am one of them. I’ve smiled through gonzo scenes, but afterward often went home sick, curled up in a ball and physically nauseated. There is always a price to pay; the kind of damage we’ve inflicted on our bodies won’t catch up with us for years. Hopefully it won’t be lasting, but we’ll be the first generation of adult actresses to know.
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/03/18/blood-sweat-and-sex-my-hard-life-in-porn.html
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Xipe Totec
(44,554 posts)Response to n2doc (Original post)
C.H.O.M.P.S. Message auto-removed
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)Personally I think we tend to feel pressured more to blame things on porn that are completely not related to porn in any way.
And I suspect the Steubenville case was more a group of entitled guys who had been encouraged to see themselves as demigods and others as lesser beings because they were on the town's cherished football team, and who chose to get revenge in the most awful way they could think of when a girl decided to go all atheist on their godhood.
To each his own, though.
Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #14)
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Melon_Lord
(105 posts)As someone who would rape might find that style of porn appealing but causality is another thing. Millions of people, men and women, watch all kinda of porn and manage not to rape.
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)and no, I think it had nothing to do with their contempt for women. Their contempt for women was a result of the football hero-worship that made them think they were above the rest of humanity, and invulnerable. There's been reports from other women suggesting that the attitude went back further into the history of the town than the advent of Internet porn. So, no.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)certainly doesn't teach men to be more considerate of women's needs and interests.
MattBaggins
(7,948 posts)I have many friends with very young teenage sons who do to the complete lack of any regulation of internet porn, freely watch the nastiest violent crap they can and think what they are watching is funny. When you have an 11 year old showing 6 to 8 year olds the famous 2girls1cup video it harms. When kids ipods have videos of preteen kids and teens doing that stupid Sexy and I know it groin shake and kids are being sent home from school for it is harms. People claim the shit does not desensitize yet many grown adults get irate when a kid is sent home for shaking his genitals at other students. People are supposed to lighten up francis.
Boys and girls both find it OK to watch this extreme porn such as that wholesome marital aid known as gang bang throat @#$%ing. Just great when young teen girls try it and go to the hospital with injuries to their throats.
It does no harm when a local school has a 3rd grade boy anally assault another boy and sure enough he learned it from porn. A neighboring school had parents scream at a teacher that reported their son for "checking peoples oil" (where you walk up behind the person and through their pants attempt to insert your finger into their anus). Yes the parents felt this was innocent boy play and the teacher was going to ruin their son by punishing him for it.
Porn is harmless and can in no way influence peoples behavior or psychological states. At all
Apophis
(1,407 posts)MattBaggins
(7,948 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Expect to see lots of "LOL U STOOPID PR0N IS FREE EXPRESSION OF WOMEN'S SEXUALITY!" posts, and a few posters who think third wave feminism is about women being masturbatory aides for men.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)
I didn't forget it.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)generally he just keeps it at smacking himself in the head. repeatedly, lol.
Apophis
(1,407 posts)It talks about men in porn also.
SpartanDem
(4,533 posts)but you'd know that if you read the entire thing.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Response to MattBaggins (Reply #4)
Matariki This message was self-deleted by its author.
The best reason, and near as I can figure the only reason, to request the sarcasm tag is the assumption that most of the people who will read a given post are idiots. I'm sorry if you feel that way. Wait, there's one other reason to request the sarcasm tag. It would be the belief that intelligent people are incapable of disagreeing with each other. On second thought, no... that would also be an assumption that other people are idiots. It's not very nice.
bhikkhu
(10,789 posts)why don't they take the energy they put into complaining and use it to go get a better job!
because working in porn is the same.
MattBaggins
(7,948 posts)Unbelievable.
Your name is fitting
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Apophis
(1,407 posts)Okay then.
Response to Apophis (Reply #77)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
All because I suggest someone should get a new job if they don't like their current job.
I quit my job last year and got a new one. Why? Because I hated the old one.
Why am I still getting replies highlighted when I trashed this thread last night?
devilgrrl
(21,318 posts)The responses to you got have been appropriate and well deserved.
devilgrrl
(21,318 posts)eom
Apophis
(1,407 posts)You have nothing but personal attacks. You've said nothing.
devilgrrl
(21,318 posts)Correct answer man?
Apophis
(1,407 posts)LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)"just find something else"; it's been said here multiple times that jailing them or their clients and running them out of business is okay. One poster even suggested that police harassment was an acceptable way to run prostitutes out of town if it were legalized. How is this different from those established and accepted attitudes?
devilgrrl
(21,318 posts)Why are you attacking me?
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)It was a question.
devilgrrl
(21,318 posts)What ever it was.
While we're here. Why is it okay to suggest that porn workers find another line of work if they don't like getting injured on the job?
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)devilgrrl
(21,318 posts)eom
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)You keep responding with more questions and putting words in my mouth. Any particular reason for that?
devilgrrl
(21,318 posts)Sounds like you're for the behavior.
Have a nice day.
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)I'll answer yours anyway: under some circumstances, you're damn straight I'll tell a sex worker that they need to find a new line of work. They're physically and mentally demanding jobs. If you don't have the strength or the mindset to do it, it will fuck you right up. If they can't handle the physical and mental stress, they shouldn't be doing the job. And I will say so to them, the same as I would anyone else doing any other job they couldn't physically handle. But that's a case by case thing. It wouldn't be appropriate for the author of the article, who obviously saw it as acceptable risk, felt she could handle it, and did handle it- and who also had advantages that my line of work didn't, like OSHA protections and access to the police.
Do you have a problem with that?
devilgrrl
(21,318 posts)Feel better.
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)So why were you arguing?
devilgrrl
(21,318 posts)There's a lot going on. My apologies.
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)No worries.
devilgrrl
(21,318 posts)got it.
4 t 4
(2,407 posts)and not so nice men showed them things. Those of you that showed them things, are rather aweful. How would you like men like yourself showing your daughter things?
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)"Men like myself"??? Ahem. LADYHawk doesn't imply anything at all about my gender to you?
This post makes no sense at all.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)what
Squinch
(59,425 posts)to have a great education, and they've chosen to be in porn because they have these really great self images and probably they have perfect mental health. So they could go off and be, like, anthropologists or something if they want.
And because they have all these options, we all know that they are acting in porn because that's what they wanted to do more than anything else, and it was purely by choice.
Because if that weren't true, it would be pretty creepy.
Squinch
(59,425 posts)Apophis
(1,407 posts)You're assuming they all hate themselves.
And I'm being called an insensitive jerk?
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Porn star, and author of this article. She has a degree in business from UC Irvine. She entered pornography while in college AND finished her degree. She's quite famous, directs her own films, and runs her own website.
She had many options. She's not some weird fetish actor. She's as mainstream as it gets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora_Snow
4 t 4
(2,407 posts)about have degrees
devilgrrl
(21,318 posts)twit.
devilgrrl
(21,318 posts)Clown.
MattBaggins
(7,948 posts)Every other industry mandates protection of gloves and other PPE for employees but that industry gets a free pass.
Kolesar
(31,182 posts)MattBaggins
(7,948 posts)Kolesar
(31,182 posts)Online training modules with Q&A and video segments. Now apply that to porn.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Kolesar
(31,182 posts) , in case you don't get it
tjwash
(8,219 posts)
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)and you say "yes" when you could say "no".
MattBaggins
(7,948 posts)I'm sure I could find people in dire straits that I could pay money to remove asbestos from by basement with a broom. They could say no but that doesn't make my attempt to violate safety laws legal.
Porn needs worker rights and safety regulations.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)If prostitution were legalized, licensed and regulated, with mandatory safety and welfare checks, I think most people involved would benefit.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I believe the poster was making the clear implication that pornography is rarely a choice that one looks at or thinks about when deciding on a college or a career path.
Bu maybe there are idiots who believe they do just that... or are simply looking to find an argument in an instance where none exist to illustrate how clever they can pretend to be.
Thinking about it, I'll go with option two in this instance... 
Response to tjwash (Reply #7)
WinniSkipper This message was self-deleted by its author.
Skittles
(171,537 posts)but as long as she can fake like she's just LOVING stuff that we all know would hurt like hell, well then everything is peachy keen 
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)Squinch
(59,425 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)I mean, what kind of progressive could object to this?
SpartanDem
(4,533 posts)Yet the job is not without its redeeming qualities and unique experiences. There is no judgment within porn—it can be an outlet for sexual fantasies, helping those with a fetish feel accepted and less outcast. The movies we make can get a soldier through a long deployment, help a married couple spice up their love life, or provide an unconventional tutorial about sex. The good pay for relatively infrequent hours worked, not to mention the fame and the loyal fan following, create opportunities to have a voice in our community. Sex doesn’t just sell porn, it sells movies, advertisements and most of what we buy, and the adult industry fills a need within our culture. Whether or not you indulge in this form of entertainment, take a moment to consider the hard work (words not often associated with porn) that went into to creating it. It’s not the easy payday so many assume it is.
what kind of progressive could object to this?
One that doesn't have the sense to let people do want want with their own bodies.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)SpartanDem
(4,533 posts)I have no desire to make moral judgments for other people
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)judge coal miners when they criticize the mining industry.
MattBaggins
(7,948 posts)Easy pay for little work or not the easy payday?
And none of that has anything to do with work place protections for bodily harm and injury.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)can and can't do. I find those types to be far more authoritarian than progressive, but there sure are a lot of 'em here.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)But, people do not have to approve of porn anymore than they have to approve of Fox News or assault rifles.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)banning of porn is an absolute joke. There was a thread a few weeks ago about a proposal to ban porn in some Scandinavian country (don't recall it at the moment). There were quite a few in that thread who agreed with it and thought it should extend to the U.S. Even a number of people who said that they'd never consider banning porn in the past. It's quite clear where the dishonesty in this argument comes from.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)I'm also gonna double down and suggest you don't have a link to a single news story about any legislation on any level in the US talking about banning porn.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)You might want to work on those reading comprehension skills there, champ. I said that there was a thread here about a Scandinavian country with plans to ban porn and there were a number of people here that agreed with it. Christ, it's not like we're having a verbal conversation, you can actually go back and read things. Give it a try, you might find you like it.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Where is this massive discussion where all these scary radical feminists talked about banning the precious?
EOTE
(13,409 posts)My daughter is six, but I generally don't need to repeat every damned thing I say to her. Your ability to engage in discussion is even worse than your reading ability. How the fuck am I supposed to have an actual discussion on the internet with someone who refuses to read? I thought geeks, you know, liked reading.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)here who expressed a desire to ban porn, in order to support your bogus claim that the mere act of criticizing porn is the same as wanting to ban it.
And then you whiff on backing up your claim.
So, crying "first amendment" is not a rational response to criticism of the merits of porn any more than crying "first amendment" would be a rational response to criticism on the merits of Fox News or Jersey Shore.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)I was remarking on your remarkably bad debate skills. Three times over the course of this conversation you've demonstrated your complete inability to read or comprehend. I prefer to debate people who engage in debate with at least a tad of honesty, and those who actually read the posts they're responding to rather than providing ridiculously simplistic monologues. I'm quite sure I've wasted enough of my time on you. Bye.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)what they could and couldn't do, and now you're admitting you just made that shit up.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)I said that I said NOTHING about the first amendment and now you suggest that means that I was making up the fact that there are authoritarians here who would ban porn? I have a feeling that the hamster wheel in your brain needs replacing.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)can and can't do. I find those types to be far more authoritarian than progressive but there sure are a lot of 'em here.
And then you completely whiffed on backing up this bullshit claim.
So, put up or shut up: cite examples of authoritarianism in this discussion of porn, i.e. people "telling consenting adults what they can and can't do."
EOTE
(13,409 posts)I'm still waiting on that particular bit of herpy derp. I'm sure you'll provide it right away. Derp.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)progressive authoritarians telling consenting adults what they can and can't do is bullshit.
I in turn concede you didn't raise the false flag of the first amendment, just the false flag of leftwing authoritarianism.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)So yeah, you admit that you were full of shit about me bring up the first amendment. I, in turn, concede nothing. There are quite a few people on this board that are all about banning porn in this country to varying degrees. Will I go through the work of finding a number of them just so you can say "Oh, all you can provide is four lousy examples?" Fuck no.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)to criticism of the precious.
snooper2
(30,151 posts) now that was one funny replyWhisp
(24,096 posts)but now they are going to take ALL OUR GUNZZZ. Every last single one.
Just plucked out of thin air so they can rail against their own imaginations because no one actually said that.
oiy.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Squinch
(59,425 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)Squinch
(59,425 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)Squinch
(59,425 posts)She's explicitly stating that she wouldn't ban porn. Who else?
EOTE
(13,409 posts)So she's saying that couples would still have the ability to make their own porn, thanks beneficent one. Stating that you'd ban commercial porn is stating that you'd ban porn, period. Here's another one who thinks that Iceland's proposed ban is a great thing:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022373022#post5
Squinch
(59,425 posts)Who else?
EOTE
(13,409 posts)The law would be to ban porn. Now granted, I typically have a rather hard time deciphering what this poster wants to say, but it's pretty fucking obvious in this one. And no, I have no desire to play "Got another?" with you for the next few hours.
Squinch
(59,425 posts)surprised that you don't like the "got any examples of this at all?" game.
Because so far you don't.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)And that other poster wouldn't ban porn either, just porn that's made outside of one's bedroom. What a fucking joke.
Squinch
(59,425 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)About as obvious as that particular poster gets anyway. It's hard to defend something and not be at least somewhat for it.
Squinch
(59,425 posts)She's talking about their tweaking laws that liberalized prostitution.
You still haven't come up with an example.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)Someone first says that Iceland must not be very liberal if it's considering banning pornography. Then the other poster defends the banning and tries to suggest that that would be the more liberal position. If you can't see that, that's not on me. I've provided more than one example and you dismiss them. Just as you'd dismiss any others I find.
Squinch
(59,425 posts)that a poster meant "x" when they said "y" I would dismiss them.
You got nothin'
Have a nice day.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)porn. Because she's so kind as to not prevent fucking one's spouse in their own houses. You've got LOADS of it. And by "it", I mean bullshit.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Do you rationalize their pain away - that they can simply quit? Just like porn actors?
I can point out the pain and exploitative problems in the manufacturing slave labor camps of Asia and be called "progressive" but can't do the same with porn?
EOTE
(13,409 posts)No. Do I think that more should be done in the countries where they exist to improve conditions for all workers? Of course. Do I think that conditions for adult films stars are anywhere approaching slave labor conditions? Of course not. Being a porn star is a job. Most porn stars get paid far more than I do for doing far less work. Do I wish that porn stars had better working conditions and better pay? I suppose so, but no more than just about any other low end job in this country. I think McDonalds workers are often in more need of protections than porn stars are.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)in post 95. I was responding that one can be a progressive AND critical with an analogy.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)There are quite a few here who think that women shouldn't be allowed to enter into a career in porn because they don't know what it is they're consenting to. Those are who I object to.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)by slamming any conversation that doesn't support their position as "authoritarians" and/or not real "progressives" (or prudes or worse).
And yeah, a lot of times "consenting adults" is really a euphemism for "not so much consenting" and more like "SOL in a terrible place without options".
And having a conversation about that whether its porn stars, slave labor in Asia, or McDonald's workers is valid.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)I DO have many issues with those who will use those issues as an excuse for nanny state paternalism. Perhaps I wasn't as specific as I should have been in that initial post, but there are plenty of those posters who exist here.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)"Nanny state" is a euphemism by libertarians and conservatives to kill discussion of regulation.
That's all.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)But in its non-euphemistic form, it means the government telling grown, consenting adults what they can do when it doesn't negatively effect others. Regulation is fine, telling grown ass adults what they can or cannot do with their bodies is utter bullshit.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Seat belt and airbag laws is telling grown ass adults what they can or cannot do with their bodies. So are crash helmet laws. So are no-texting-while-driving laws. We have many occupational laws that regulate body use. That is what OSHA is all about. The new NFL rules trying to reduce concussions are another example.
There is a cost to society without these laws, both in the level of public health, and in health costs incurred by reckless human behavior.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)Seat belt and helmet laws save countless lives. Banning pornography would simply drive it underground with far worse and more dangerous conditions.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)then get back to me.
there is more than enough info on the issue. well documented. tens of thousands? hundred thousands?
no problem there, right buddy.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=how+much+of+porn+is+thru+sex+slavery&oq=how+much+of+porn+is+thru+sex+slavery&gs_l=hp.12...1851.10315.0.12131.36.30.0.6.6.0.265.2315.24j4j1.29.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.6.psy-ab.Ro0cSBcHjqU&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43828540,d.b2U&fp=b216c9d9fd13dd85&biw=1600&bih=775
EOTE
(13,409 posts)The records are made very much available, anyone can obtain them. Of course, those same records aren't really available for amateur porn for obvious reasons. Now, can any person enter into a profession with false identification? Sure, it happens quite a bit, companies are also doing quite a bit to prevent it, even financial institutions. No problem there, right buddy?
EOTE
(13,409 posts)But hey, those links have proper grammar and capitalization, so I guess I should be happy.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)As, once again, record keeping is done extensively within the business. Is that so difficult to understand? Is there underground stuff that's nowhere near as regulated? Of course, and the bulk of that is illegal.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)at the hands of all those using the women and BOYS and GIRLS, ..... to get off.
do i feel disgust for each and every person that uses another forced into doing something the do not want to do? damn straight. and none of the ones jumping up and down shouting to the rooftops about their right to get off proceeds those rights not to be forced, disgust me.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)Congratulations! You're part of a very large majority which includes 99.9% of humanity! Now, what the fuck your non-sequitor has to do with this conversation is well beyond me.
redqueen
(115,186 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)And I suppose another question to ask would be could a McDonald's employee support his or herself for a week by working for 3 or 4 hours?
redqueen
(115,186 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)It's almost like you lack even a tiny bit of empathy.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Being the authoritarian I am, I stop at stop signs. However, I'm quite sure non-authoritarians either rationalize that same to themselves in some way, or pay no attention to street signs-- to better maintain consistency.
Makes me think that many people who use the word "authoritarian", use it only because they can't understand why others would have different opinions than their own, and make up diaphanous and vague definitions for it that are not applicable in any way to every-day life as they go along.
I have very few doubts though, that that's the case in this instance...
EOTE
(13,409 posts)You see, if you don't stop at a stop sign and someone gets killed, that other person did NOT consent. So, you're not really an authoritarian for stopping at stop signs. This may sound nuts, but I stop at them too. However, when consenting adults agree to fuck on camera for money, everyone involved is consenting. Thus those who want to stop them from doing so are authoritarians, fascists, what have you.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And people involved in the sex trade.
It was never easy, and some of the injuries required emergency surgery. No, not talking of the people beaten by clients (for the sex workers in the street) but those making porn.
One kid, not older than 19, was doing it since the money was good...and she as going to college.
We took her to the ER with a prolapsed uterus. Her career in the business was over, but also her chances of having a family.
I go into the general details because she asked that we don't forget.
Oh and let me add, any who thinks tat sex workers are just poor women...the usual stereotype...there are men, and children as well.
Skittles
(171,537 posts)you'll ruin it for people who don't want to think of that while they are furiously whacking off
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I would.
I will be honest, at times I wish I did not lose my innocence in the field.
The down side is that both me and my husband have a very dark sense of humor. And now that we are doing reporting, and some includes real tragedies...our sense of humor has gotten even darker.
Skittles
(171,537 posts)I would be more worried if you did NOT have that dark humor - those are the folk that become mentally unbalanced
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Two combat vets...
Fire season has started...though not officially. Oh the jokes.
Skittles
(171,537 posts)I guess not everyone is familiar with that coping mechanism 
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)I feel sorry for her.
zappaman
(20,627 posts)There is truly nothing you have not done.
I salute you!
DU's treasure!
mythology
(9,527 posts)it sounds like the adult industry needs some serious regulation. I don't know that I believe that porn has to be inherently damaging in a physical sense, but then again I have no desire to have any sort of sex that results in anything prolapsing.
I don't really watch porn. I've seen some, but most of it was rather boring and repetitive. My imagination is far more varied and never has any silicon breasts.
But complaining about the lack of air conditioning is a bit silly, especially when she does list a number of more significant issues.
Warpy
(114,580 posts)which means the physical demands can be extreme, just as they can be when an actor is portraying a superhero of one type or another.
I'm not surprised to see this reaction. It's why sex workers at all levels and all genders need to be organized, to reject things that aren't safe and force writers to be more realistic or special effects people to be called in. Or have it done with animation if it's that dangerous.
I hope this person isn't being permanently damaged by the unsafe stuff. There is a reason it's been relegated to fantasy, guys, real women don't often enjoy being hurt.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Which means no physical demands on any human being except the animators.
LisaL
(47,418 posts)
Kurska
(5,739 posts) Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Are men in porn similarly exploited? Would banning porn end up with a situation like Prohibition, or the war on drugs, where it is still made, and still widely available, but is controlled by violent criminal gangs?
No easy answers and I do not pretend to have the answers.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Especially now that an iPhone is enough to produce it.
MattBaggins
(7,948 posts)If you use an animal in a film you must go through hoops to provide the proper care and protection from actual physical harm.
Would it be so awful to extend such simple ideas to porn workers?
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)MattBaggins
(7,948 posts)Mandatory condom use
No bodily fluid exchange
Required FULL Health care (not just std checkups)
Mandatory retirement accounts
Do not try this at home disclaimers
LisaL
(47,418 posts)But even if they are tested once a month, there is still a period when one can get infected in between the tests.
ismnotwasm
(42,674 posts)We could change porn. Don't ask---completely different topic. And no, there's nothing benevolent about the porn industry. It's a huge multi-billion dollar industry.
However, sex workers should be as protected, as any other worker should be. I found this interesting;
Porn industry threatens to leave Los Angeles
Los Angeles voted Tuesday to protect its porn stars, but the county has no means of protection from the runaway production that the adult film industry is now threatening.
Measure B, a law requiring condom use and health permits for all porn shoots within Los Angeles County, which includes the so-called pornography capital of the world – the San Fernando Valley – passed with nearly 56-percent support on Tuesday.
But according to Variety, “the passage of Measure B could rub out what's left of L.A.'s $1 billion porn biz, as producers from industry goliath Vivid Entertainment on down are already planning to flee the county, where an estimated 10,000 people are employed making 8 percent of the world's adult films.”
“The problem is that the way the law is written, we're considered to basically be a hospital where people have to wear gloves and masks,” Steve Hirsch, founder and co-chairman of Vivid, the largest producer and distributor of porn in Los Angeles told Variety.
Hirsch said his company has plans to move production to another county in California, rather than out of state. Apart from California, New Hampshire is the only other state where pornography shoots are legal. Variety reports Vivid has “about 100 employees and produces about 60 films per year at budgets typically ranging from $50,000 to $300,000 and from 10 to 40 people employed per shoot.”
http://www.kpbs.org/news/2013/jan/15/porn-industry-turned-off-by-la-mandate-for/
And this is fucked up, because AIM did good work
It was in 2004 that AIM assisted in the sex-film-industry shutdown, a quarantine that lasted fewer than 60 days. A male performer, Darren James, had tested positive for HIV in April and, to prevent another HIV outbreak, an urgent search was initiated for his potentially infected partners. A total of four more performers, Bianca Biaggi, Jessica Dee, Lara Roxx, and Miss Arroyo were diagnosed with the virus by the end of the testing rounds, including one unrelated case in New York.James had apparently had contact with 12 women since his initial negative HIV test in March upon his return from a Brazilian film shoot.
In 2009, the Los Angeles Public Health department and the Los Angeles Times claimed that there were 16 unreported cases of HIV among adult film actors.AIM Health Care Foundation reported that these cases were actually members of the general public or people applying to work in the adult film industry that had not yet actually worked in films due to their initial test being positive.
On October 12, 2010, the Foundation reported that an actor or actress have been infected with HIV. The name and gender of the person was not released to the public.Vivid Entertainment and Wicked Pictures shut down porn production temporarily to avoid spreading of the virus. Although Wicked Pictures has a mandatory condom policy, the company is shutting down to wait for the quarantine list.
Patient database breach
AIM Medical's patient database is presumably the source of a massive 2011 data leak containing the confidential personal information, including the real names of over 12,000 pornographic actors, and the results of their STD tests.Compromised patient information is posted on the controversial website Porn Wikileaks.
AIM closed its offices and filed for bankruptcy in May 2011. A privacy lawsuit challenging AIM's handling of the patient records in light of Porn Wikileaks was the last straw for the clinic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_Industry_Medical_Health_Care_Foundation
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)TYY 
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)
flamingdem
(40,877 posts)He held out his hand and said "Hi! My name is Rod" and I burst out laughing. 
snooper2
(30,151 posts)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora_Snow
Snow entered college at the University of California, Irvine.[3] After her first year of college, she answered an employment-advertisement for nude modeling. From there she moved on to pornography. She continued her education but changed her major to Business.[3]
Despite her choice of career, she was initially very inexperienced sexually. She had performed in several smaller gonzo porn scenes and Pro-Am films featured online when she first started, but she has recently focused more on traditional, plot-based 'feature' films. One of her first 'professionally' made as well as distributed movies was titled More Dirty Debutantes 152, produced by Ed Powers.[3] Her stage name derives from her two favorite childhood fairy tale characters, Princess Aurora from Sleeping Beauty and Snow White.[2]
She has also moved into directing and is a hostess on Playboy TV.[4] Her directorial debut is Assploitations, later followed by a fairy tale type movie called Perverted Tales. She directs hardcore anal films.[5]
Snow appeared in a cameo in the Judd Apatow film Superbad with fellow pornographic actress Jenna Haze.[6] She also made an uncredited masked cameo in the film The Rules of Attraction.[7]
In 2009[8] Snow's biography was released in comic book form by Carnal Comics in Aurora Snow: True Stories of Adult Film Stars.[9]
Despite having not used condoms during most of her scenes, Snow came out as one of the few performers in favor of the 2012 Measure B vote in Los Angeles mandating the use of condoms for all adult movie scenes.[10]
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)that is just so wrong!
Orrex
(67,063 posts)Shows what I know.
Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #52)
datasuspect This message was self-deleted by its author.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)And nowhere is that more true than in the porn industry.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)
Candida Royalle (born October 15, 1950) is an American producer and director of couples-oriented pornography and a former pornographic actress. She is member of the XRCO and the AVN Halls of Fame.
Initially trained in music, dance, and art in New York, with studies at the High School of Art and Design, Parson's School of Design and the City University of New York,[citation needed] she eventually entered a career as a porn star, acting in some 25 movies.
In 1984, she founded Femme Productions, with the goal of making erotica based on female desire, as well as pornographic films aimed at helping couple therapy. Her productions are aimed more to women and couples than to the standard pornographic audience of men, and have been praised by counselors and therapists for depicting healthy and realistic sexual activity.[1] Her company has been very successful, producing a series of products known to have a more artistic touch, lacking some aspects of common porn, like a focus on male ejaculation. She described her approach to film-making in an interview in the Wendy McElroy 1995 book XXX: A Woman's Right to Pornography.[2] Royalle has stated she tries to avoid "misogynous predictability," and depiction of sex in "...as grotesque and graphic [a way] as possible." She also criticizes the male-centredness of the typical pornographic film, in which scenes end when the male actor ejaculates. Royalle’s films are not “goal oriented” towards a final "cum shot"; instead, her films depict sexual activity within the broader context of women's emotional and social lives.[3]
In 1989, she signed the Post Porn Modernist Manifesto.[4]
Royalle is also a member of the American Association of Sex Educators, Counselors and Therapists, and a founding board-member of Feminists for Free Expression. She recently made her mission of women's sexual empowerment multi-cultural by executive producing the independent film Afrodite Superstar, directed by African American director Venus Hottentot, a breakthrough film nominated for seven AVN Awards in 2007. Royalle is credited with also directing the explicit sex scenes, one of which features her Natural Contours products.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candida_Royalle
MattBaggins
(7,948 posts)that is what the thread is supposed to be about.
Squinch
(59,425 posts)
Zorra
(27,670 posts)jollyreaper2112
(1,941 posts)A lot of shitty comments here and at the link.
There's a lot of healthy porn out there that appeals to the light side. There's also a lot of porn that appeals to the dark side. Women aren't humans to share experiences with but objects to be fucked into submission, conquered and degraded so the audience can vicariously feel like men because they never get to in their own lives. It's fucked up.
Porn is about as deregulated as finance and just as reputable. We likely won't see any reforms.
The thing I'm curious about is why she stays in. She doesn't suggest enough good to make up for the bad. And I would find it very difficult to enjoy her videos thinking of her curled up in real pain after. But I also feel the same way about professional sports. Athletes are suiciding to escape the pain. I think the idea of saying they know what they're in for and take the money to be a disgustingly republican point of view, pretending like the fiction of informed consent makes up for what happens and absolves all responsibility and blame.
There's a pretty sick Christian feel of judgment here. Nothing gets dicks harder than thumping a bible disapprovingly at someone.
The critics don't seem to be looking at her as a human, just a fetish object of shame and filth to be gleefully condemned. There is no sympathy, no compassion, just the pornographic gratification in the viewing of spectacle.
Evoman
(8,040 posts)Even if you've never read this article, you gotta know that someone gangbanged in three orifices can't really be enjoying it or that they are causing some real damage to their bodies.
How the fuck do you watch this shit? It's gross. Go get fucking laid or spank it to something less harmful.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)it more after reading this.
redqueen
(115,186 posts)which showed the truth of what you say.
They know a great deal of their customers want to see women degraded and hurt. They want to see the 'girl next door' types, the inaccessible women, punished and made to suffer.
ismnotwasm
(42,674 posts)Larry Flynt's 6 Tips for Porn Stars
(Tip 6)
I wouldn’t advise them to do it. There’s a difference between a girl that makes a movie and a girl that poses for a magazine. Most of the girls that pose for the magazine aren’t doing it for the money; they’ve got great bodies, and they’re doing it for posterity’s sake. But where the money is to be made is if they move into films, and I wouldn’t advise that. You get used up very quickly: Within three or four months, the average girl will just get used up. It just takes your soul, you know? It just takes your soul.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/larry-flynts-6-tips-porn-424669
redqueen
(115,186 posts)***WARNING: CONTAINS EXPLICIT DESCRIPTIONS***
LOOK AT THE KIND OF SPEECH THAT PORNOGRAPHY DEFENDERS ARE PROTECTING WHILE DENYING THE HUMAN RIGHTS OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE HARMED BY IT:
...
"Rocco [Siffredi] has far more power in this industry than any actress... I was the first to shoot Rocco. Together we evolved toward rougher stuff. He started to spit on girls. A strong male-dominant thing, with women being pushed to their limit. It looks like violence but it's not. I mean, pleasure and pain are the same thing, right?Rocco is driven by the market. What makes it in today's market place is reality." -- John Stagliano,pornographer, quoted in Martin Amis' "A Rough Trade", The Guardian,March 17, 2001.
"I'd like to really show what I believe the men want to see: violence against women. I firmly believe that we serve a purpose by showing that. The most violent we can get is the cum shot in the face. Men get off behind that, because they get even with the women they can't have. We try to inundate the world with orgasms in the face." -- Bill Margold,porn industry veteran, quoted in Robert J. Stoller and I. S. Levine, Coming Attractions: The Making of an X-rated video;1993.
...
https://againstpornography.org/pornographersspeech.html
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Does that make most men sick fucks? Possibly.
But what is the real tragedy of the pervasiveness of violence against women in pornography is that it is normative.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)66% of women watch porn
57% of women watch porn with their partner
87% of women that view porn are married or in a relationship
10% of women that view porn are single
6% of women admitted to watching porn once a day
26% of women admitted to watching porn once a month
Out of the 57 % of women who watch porn with a partner, a third regularly use it as part of foreplay, while 41% admit to having watched it several times with their man.
http://www.examiner.com/article/women-like-porn-too
Evoman
(8,040 posts)I wonder what they are watching. I doubt many women get off watching the really gross shit.
Ghost in the Machine
(14,912 posts)I have never been into porn, whether in video or print form. It just didn't appeal to me at all. It could have had something to do with the fact of me working as a bouncer in a strip club/ biker bar off and on for several years, from the time I was 18, or it could be the same reason I don't watch sports on TV.... "why sit around the house all day, watching others have fun, when I could be out doing it and having fun myself?"
Anyways, when my (now ex) wife and I got our first computer back in 1999, I got the shock of my life one Saturday morning. She was always an early riser, and I used to enjoy sleeping in every once in a while on the weekends. I had slept in this particular morning, and when I woke up, I headed out to the kitchen for a glass of tea. I heard the TV on as I came down the hall and figured she was watching a show, as she loved watching the fishing shows on the weekends... Bill Dance, Roland Martin, etc. I stepped into the living room and there she was, sitting at the computer.. watching "Fantasy Rape" porn!
This totally blew my mind, for two reasons in particular: First, in the two years we had been together, she had NEVER shown, or mentioned, any inclination toward having any desire to watch any porn.... and secondly, she had told me a few times about how she was almost raped when she was 17. She was on her way to go swimming at the local pool when some guy grabbed her, dragged her into the bushes and tried to rape her. She was screaming, kicking and fighting back, which caught the attention of some others near the pool and they ran in and saved her.
To this day, I still can't wrap my head around the fact that someone who went through an ordeal like that could bring themselves to watch it happen to someone else, even if it was a staged "Fantasy" scene...
I just agree with Jim Morrison with his observation that "People are Strange"....
Peace,
Ghost
Evoman
(8,040 posts)Was she stimulated by it?
I remember tha after I got hit my a car, I went on the internet and read and watched about car accidents. I wanted to see if anybody else in an accident and situation like mine died or was severly damaged (some did die).
I'm sure if my girlfriend has caught me, she would have thought that I was crazy.
BTW thanks for the response, and I'm sorry about what happened to your wife. It's such a terrible crime.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)the drunk 16 yr old who got raped had it coming.
LisaL
(47,418 posts)As far as I can tell, no one forced her to do it.
She presumably could have found a regular 9 to 5 job, but apparently that is not what she wants.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)correct?
Squinch
(59,425 posts)
Hissyspit
(45,790 posts)TUESDAY, NOV 27, 2012 07:00 PM EST
Study: Porn stars aren’t “damaged”
A report finds adult actresses are happier than the rest of us -- and that being naked might lead to self-esteem
BY TRACY CLARK-FLORY
- snip -
Adult actress and director Kimberly Kane took a different tack. “I’ve found that everyone is damaged no matter what line of work they’re in,” she says.
Researchers compared self-reports from a group of nearly 200 porn actresses to those of women outside the industry who were similar in age, ethnicity and marital status. Not only did the report show no higher incidence of child sexual abuse or psychological problems among female performers, but it actually found that pornsters had higher levels of self-esteem and sexual satisfaction.
It’s true, however, that porn actresses are more likely to have ever tried a range of drugs, including ecstasy, cocaine, heroin and methamphetamine, according to the study. But as for recent drug use, performers were more frequent users only when it came to that devastating drug known as … marijuana.
Also of note in the study’s findings: Female performers were more likely to identify as bisexual, had sex at earlier ages, had more sexual partners and were more likely to be worried about STDs (although, due to mandated industry testing, they are perhaps more likely to know their status than the general populace).
The study, authored in part by Sharon Mitchell, a former porn performer and founder of the Adult Industry Medical Health Care Foundation, engages in plenty of speculation about what might account for these various differences — for example, in explaining the higher incidence of bisexuality, researchers suggest that “the adult entertainment industry acts as a facilitator of sexual fluidity by providing a supportive culture of same-gender sexual interactions and offers financial rewards for engaging in those behaviors.”
But the most fascinating hypothesis — and let’s remember, it’s just that — is that “being able to be completely naked in front of others” may be associated with higher self-esteem. (The paper cites another study finding that topless women at a beach reported higher self-esteem than those covered up.)
“I think that the misconception of porn performers as ‘damaged goods’ stems from a misconception that only women who have little respect for their body would take place in sexual acts in front of the camera,” says Madison Young, a porn actress, artist and self-described “sexual revolutionary.”
“However, women who love their bodies, who are confident in themselves, many who have degrees and other careers, choose to be a part of the authentic documentation of pleasure.” They aren’t the only ones who choose to participate, of course, but that range does exists. “Pornography and the exploration of sexuality on film is a large and diverse realm and those that perform and work in the world of pornography are diverse as well,” she says.
MORE[p]
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Do you really want to go there? It doesn't stand up to real scientific standards for a study...
Hissyspit
(45,790 posts)So are the other studies being cited in these threads.
Complicated and nuanced, unlike "all people who watch porn think rape victims have it coming."
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Not a career one would boast about to the grandkids or worthy of whining for sympathy.
This 'porn star' won't be the first generation to find out what damages "gonzo" sex (Bizarre or crazy) causes.
Their mirror underground sex industry has millions of children/babies tore-up by forced "gonzo" sex to look at today.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Nevertheless, grownups make their own choices. The best you can hope for is that they make informed choices.
opiate69
(10,129 posts)Warehousing, lumping, farming, automotive teching.... And the list goes on..
Paul E Ester
(952 posts)Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Porn-company-sued-over-penis-injections-3945934.php
and a separate case:
Other models take the drugs to get through the long hours required for a porn shoot. Keys points out that some men who use the drugs have the appropriate prescriptions, while others do not.
Like Viagra, Trimix provides a long-lasting erection; however, unlike the popular pill, Trimix is injected directly into the penis and the results are immediate. In normal doses, the injections are safe, but higher doses can result in priapism, an erection that lasts for longer than four hours and requires medical attention in order to be reduced.
A former Kink employee who requested anonymity expressed concern over the dosages and reported that at least three models had experienced health complications, including priapism and fainting, as a result of Trimix use. Keys says that though he has used Trimix in the past, his experience was without incident. He also claims that Kink had stopped relying on the injections approximately four to six months ago because of the risks involved.
http://www.sfweekly.com/2013-02-20/news/sex-workers-allege-endangerment-mistreatment-at-local-porn-company-kink/
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)The answer is to change the environment that requires the coercive conditions that make it a better deal than they are going to get otherwise.
You enjoying that SmartPhone? You buying from Apple, M$, Intel, Nike, etc. ad nauseum? Our entire society and economy is based on limitless exploitation and that is what has to change. We are the problem. Until we deal with that, this is the road we will continue down.
"Behind every great fortune lies a great crime."
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Long story short, she's not calling for an end to the industry, she's not authoring a wholesale indictment of capitalism, she's saying the job certainly isn't the cakewalk ("most people like sex, so why not get paid for it?" style thinking) some might think it is.
All in all, good advice, good warnings. If people want to make this choice, especially now that porn like other content producing industries is facing pressure from the internet--- namely the fact that at this point anyone with an iphone can essentially "make porn"-- they ought to be fully informed of what the choice might entail.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Why would it be any different with sex?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Last edited Tue Mar 19, 2013, 11:58 AM - Edit history (1)
you are not actually watching an early 20th Century Aristocratic British family having a 6 course meal brought by servants who make sardonic comments under their breath, but instead are seeing actors sitting under hot lights for hours over food that is starting to spoil.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/food-dining/2013/01/01/the-food-downton-abbey-real-and-looks-good-but-prop/EtjhDP1y4G35bMu98szifN/story.html
cali
(114,904 posts)and that it makes clear that making porn is not good for the women being fucked.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Even if one deludes themselves that making porn is somehow "empowering" (and more than a few DUers always make this argument), how does one ignore the actual physical pain you know you are watching?
What does that say about us as a culture?
K&R
redqueen
(115,186 posts)LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)or the fishermen getting bashed around in the freezing cold on Deadliest Catch, or any of the shows dealing with teen pregnancy. I think the fact that we only worry about it when it's women having voluntary sex says a whole lot more about our culture than anything else.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I don't watch it. I don't spend any money on it.
I don't eat meat. Feedlots are unhealthy for our planet. Its bad for our society.
I only buy fair trade coffee.
I've been pretty vocal about US participation in our latest resource wars.
I dislike MOST of what's on teevee so I don't watch (support) gratuitous violent car crashes, Deadliest Catch, or any show about teen pregnancy.
I could go on and on with MANY examples of people disagreeing with the principles or practices behind particular things, who put their money (and their mouth) into voicing concerns, critiques, direct action etc. I presume you have your own list. I would suspect that virtually ALL DUers have their own list of things that "worry" them.
Bottom line: its not JUST porn that people "worry" about - that's a pretty disingenuous statement to make in an attempt to portray anyone who may have concerns about the porn industry as some kind of prude.
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)What I said was, we (DU in general) only worry about the pain a performer is in, or the degradation of the job, when it's women having sex. We don't see multiple threads about how degrading crab fishing is to the fishermen, or how they couldn't possibly be doing it voluntarily- or football players, or ballerinas, or stuntpeople, or sewage workers. I don't venture into the sports forum, but the last threads I saw in GD on pro football were about -yes, the sexy woman performing at halftime and how degrading it was, not the violence of the sport. A few of us brought it up, but it got ignored in the rush to complain about Beyonce's costume. So, not a whole lot of people worrying about that out loud. Maybe they're worrying about it quietly at home?
The subject of gay porn performers gets glossed over even when people bring it up, and that's the biggest tell in the bunch, imo- the idea of "gay porn" is mainly associated in people's minds with male performers, who presumably are fine and dandy and consenting, because men can do that. Women, so the meme goes, can't consent without being degraded somehow.
We just had a dozen threads on benevolent sexism and the idea of treating women differently because they are perceived as incapable. Now we have threads doing just that, in many cases the same people arguing against the idea in the benevolent sexism threads. Half the time people don't recognize the very things they complain about when they actually manifest. That's MY worry.
Incidentally, while I dislike most TV, I rather liked Deadliest Catch. It was interesting and somewhat informative, if over-dramatized sometimes.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)and the degradation they feel.
Slave labor shops in Asia? Check. Gazillion threads on the despicable conditions of China's (just one country's example) manufacturing "plants".
Brain trauma for football players? Yup, seen more than a few threads in GD even about that.
Treatment of women in the middle east? Of course! Outrage du jour.
You can pick and choose selectively that DUers aren't worried about crab fishermen but mostly DUers are pretty united in their abhorrence of exploitation. I've seen hundreds of threads on the exploitation of workers in the US across many different career fields - hours, working conditions, pay, safety....
And then it comes to porn... and whammo! No critique, no discussion is allowed or one is labelled a nanny-stater and far, far worse....
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)The author of the piece is obviously a consenting adult, made her choice to work in the industry, and even had good things to say about it- and yet we're seeing the usual posts on "it's not really a choice" and equating what she does with kiddie porn- the now-autoremoved messages upthread were blaming porn for the Steubenville rape. No discussion allowed, or one is labeled sick or anti-woman and far far worse...
It works both ways.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Have a great night!
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)but yeah, this conversation isn't going anywhere so... adult beverage and computer game time!
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I've talked about it here on this thread, and elsewhere, numerous times.
What else do you want me to say in response to your (non) response that she did this to herself voluntarily? That "Painful employment is cool!" or "Buck up! Own your pain! Everyone suffers!111!!"
Should I be okay with the fact that she's apparently willing to subject even more human beings to this shit as a sex worker turned directer?
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)Hang on, let me finish the adult beverage first...
There, much better. I lifted beer kegs and cases for a while in a bar. It was painful. I did it voluntarily. It had its drawbacks but it was a pretty good job. Was I degrading myself, objectifying myself for people's pleasure? Should I be crusading against subjecting anyone else to working there, because they're obviously mentally defective and incapable of making that choice (by default, since they chose it, they are incapable of choosing it)? Are the patrons all sick, disgusting people for enjoying the fruits of my labor? Is it equivalent to getting children drunk? If I had become manager, am I now subjecting whoever replaced me to something horrible? Are my bosses, or me, responsible if one of our patrons gets drunk and rapes someone someday? Would it be OK for a man to do the job, but not me as a woman?
I would like you to show me where, anywhere on DU, all those points have been said about any job other than women selling sex. Even better- find me dozens of insistent threads that make those points about anything other than women selling sex.
That is the very core definition of sexism. That was my point, that you did not address. I even pointed out the issue of gay porn, which gets routinely ignored in these threads, or gets blown off as a "distraction". The obvious reasoning is that a male has a capacity for consent to a set of conditions that a woman in the same circumstances does not.
Also, when people are doing a job they want to do (as she was) then it is absolutely not your business to tell them they shouldn't be doing it. Her point wasn't that it was a bad job, and she said so. Her point was that it wasn't an easy job. Some people really do think sex is easy money, which is a really bad mindset to go into it with. I liked sex work too, but I wouldn't play it up as fantastically easy work to someone thinking of going into it; it wasn't and isn't. You've taken this article as proof that porn is a horrible awful thing that no one ought to do. Would you take it the same way if I complained about how painful lifting a beer keg could be, and launch a crusade against draft beer or the bars selling it? I doubt that, even though I got injured more times in 2 years at that job than I ever did in 10 years of selling sex.
Just something to mull over the next time one of these threads comes up. Let it sink in, and think it over. I'm going to refresh my glass and go play games. Have a good night.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)obviously.
Exploitation? Degrading working conditions? Being objectified as a female in the workplace? Forced into "choosing" a "career" and lifestyle because there are no other options??
IT workplace outsourcing, can't find a job and working at big box stores, retail jobs for minimum wage, McDonalds, can't find a job after 50... really? You've missed all of these threads? Its not that people "shouldn't" be doing these jobs - its that our society and our culture has degraded to such a point that people feel there aren't alternatives. There will always be that percentage of the population who drift into these jobs. I acknowledge that. I would stipulate however that the majority of sex workers didn't wake up and decide that a career in porn movies would be FANTASTIC and set about achieving that career goal as a life dream. Would you encourage your own daughter to risk a uterine prolapse, internal hemorrhaging, bodily injury (and worse) to be a porn "star"?
I haven't taken a position that porn is a "horrible awful thing that no one ought to do". MY position is that degrading and painful work is detrimental to our culture and society and we shouldn't tolerate it - for a barmaid or anyone, male or female. And that its exploitative to assume that's an okay workplace.
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)Just daughter, not son? Do you see it yet?
I do love it when this phrase gets dragged up. I had my daughter's back through pregnancy (her choice) which isn't exactly a healthy thing for the body either, and which I was NOT thrilled about: but once she said that was what she wanted, that was the end of the discussion. If any of them decided that porn was where they really wanted to be, I'd have their back for that too. If I felt she couldn't physically handle it, I'd advise her to get out (even though that's apparently not OK to say, see upthread), but once again, that was NOT the case with this author.
All those threads about how that big box worker's job was responsible for other people robbing big box stores? How people who shop retail stores are scary and sickening? How an unemployed woman shouldn't take that McDonalds job because it's degrading and exploitative, but it's OK if her husband does, because men can agree to that but women can't? Yes, I must have missed those. Feel free to link.
Chefs have knives and stoves, they get hurt. Barmaids/men have heavy objects, they get hurt. Farmers have all kinds of hazards from tools and animals, they get hurt. Parents have kids, they get hurt. Sex workers have sex, they get hurt. Etc. There are many people who genuinely enjoy doing all these things, in spite of the risks. What you might consider exploitation, other people consider a pleasure, in spite of the risks. Why would you feel that you should decide for them what is exploitative or intolerable and what isn't?
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)some of this hideous stuff is very scary and sickening. Guys delude themselves into thinking that the hot chick really REALLY loves two dicks in her ass at the same time! My challenge to them, if they thinks it's so hot, is to have two dicks shoved into their asses for awhile. Then they can see just how great that feels!
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)Females tend to be tiny while the guys have outsized appendages...
MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Where just existing sometimes hurts like hell? I feel sorry for anyone desperate enough to enter the porn industry, but my real concern is with the children that get sold like cattle into slavery for the rest of their lives. THINK of the pain they must go through on a daily basis. We need to address this growing problem, porn...not so much. There is WAY WAY too much of it imo. And it plays along with our continuation of self-dehumanization as a species.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)and worry about, since I know you are on the frontlines of this battle. I hope you are safe and I hope all your friends are too.
Catherina
(35,568 posts):hugs:
You have no idea how much. Thank you for all your support.
We're safe. We've only had one bad incident so far and it was our own fault for not making it clear to one woman that she could NOT get in direct contact with anyone she knew back then.
One woman helped here, another helped there... It may not seem like much but when you look into their eyes and know they can finally start a new life, it feels AWESOME! 
Rex
(65,616 posts)but to them personally, it is the world and the universe. You have moved more than mountains dear friend, you have changed their entire world for the better. I cannot give you enough respect for that, there is never enough.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)Ninety percent of the time, a degree has zero impact on getting a job.
cbdo2007
(9,213 posts)nt.
Jamastiene
(38,206 posts)Pornstar Aurora Snow on the Sasha Grey School Controversy
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/12/20/aurora-snow-on-the-sasha-grey-school-controversy.html
She asks some very important questions about the stigma of being an adult entertainer and makes some very important points about how many people do view porn and/or participate in acts that are not recorded. She makes some very good points overall in this article too.
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)
octothorpe
(962 posts)It's never done anything for me. If I'm to watch/look at porn, it's going to be the amateur kind where it's just two people who decided to sharing their kink(or whatever)
Knightraven
(268 posts)I am a Production Tech by trade and have done work on porn shoots. Both actors at the end of the day are in pain. They may say to the fans "Oh yeah I can go all night!", but at the end of the day they have not had fun and most just want to find a hot tub to rest in and be left alone.
Seeing what they go through makes me happy to stay BEHIND the camera.
jollyreaper2112
(1,941 posts)Why do people stay in it then? I hear the downside but can't hear what the upside is, not in the article or this thread.
LisaL
(47,418 posts)$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Knightraven
(268 posts)But some of the actors I have met also have low self esteem. Some really believe that doing porn is all they can do.
jollyreaper2112
(1,941 posts)It's not fantastic money and the window for making it is small. Not every starlet is going to be like a Nina Hartley, working into her later years.
From what she said in the article, it's not a shortcut to becoming a millionaire. It might be a foot in the door for those looking to branch out, directing, producing, etc. And her bio says she's done some of that.
It does seem like porn is roughly similar to football in this regard, considering the short window of earning power and the injuries incurred. I'd be curious to hear what the long-term repercussions on the physical side would be.
MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)I don't care how kinky you are, very few people want a giant cock up their ass, slamming them for a half hour straight. I don't get why anyone would want to watch that kind of shit let alone do it. Unless you get off on pain, it makes little sense to me.
But with that said, there are tons of jobs that hurt like hell at the end of the day. I've done many of them.
I guess one can always quit but that money is a tough give up. Women in porn make big time bucks, much more than the men. $2500+ per scene.