Real tough guys don't need guns, they just need a positive, can-do attitude.

[Robb]

Way too many more: http://www.thumbsandammo.blogspot.co.uk/

[Hoyt]

1. Tough Australians proved that in 1996. If we tried legislation like that here, gun cultists

would cry and stay indoors.

[mwrguy]

15. curled up in a fetal position

:~(

[MadHound]

2. That's cute and all,

But what are you going to do when you've got a rabid skunk in your backyard? Stick your thumb out there and you're asking for some seriously painful shots, at best. Take along your .22, problem solved.

[BainsBane]

3. How many rabid skunks are in your backyard?

What's going on there? Is there some reason a shotgun can't take out a skunk?

[MadHound]

4. Actually the population of rabid skunks is rising,

I've had to take out two in the past ten years. Yes, you can use a shotgun, but that's not only overkill, there was the potential for ricochet of the pellets. So that's why I used a .22 rifle.

[BainsBane]

7. Okay, do you mind if I ask

what state/area you live in? I myself haven't seen any skunks in years.

[MadHound]

11. I live in Missouri,

Skunks are actually quite common here. Cute little critters if you don't get on their wrong side. Rabies is ripping through their population however, so you need to be careful about your interactions with them.

[BainsBane]

14. stinky critters

We have lots of squirrels, and some carry rabies, but it doesn't seem to be a major problem. I think the state and city deal with these things.

[NutmegYankee]

18. I see skunks all the time in Conn.

The neighbors cat got into a fight with one, poor kitty. I was asked by him to help him clean the cat. It was quite the ordeal holding him in the sink to rinse him off. And that smell, OMG! I felt like I was going to hurl the entire time.

[BainsBane]

19. tomato juice

is what I've heard works to clean the animal with. Usually it's dogs who get sprayed.

[NutmegYankee]

20. getting the smell out wasn't the hard part.

Lets just say kitty didn't want a bath...

I'm sure it was an ordeal for all of us.

[BainsBane]

22. Kitties never want baths.

[NutmegYankee]

16. Not to mention you don't want to spread the blood. nt

[LAGC]

5. A shotgun is a whole hell of a lot more powerful than a .22

Are you suggesting .22's should be banned, but shotguns shouldn't?

[BainsBane]

6. no, I'm not suggesting either should be banned

I'm just wondering what the deal with his skunk infestation is.

[LAGC]

8. Oh okay.

But yeah, out in the sticks, there are nasty little critters everywhere.

I certainly don't fault rural people wanting to own a gun or two for varmint control.

[BainsBane]

9. nor do I

If I am ever to buy a home near the North Shore of Lake Superior, as I dream, I would get some sort of a rifle or shotgun myself, mainly to scare away bears and wolves.
Since I live in the city, I don't need or want a gun.

[LAGC]

10. Indeed.

And that's how it is with most people.

Most rural folks own guns, most urban-dwellers don't.

Hence the cultural divide we see in America today.

[BainsBane]

13. I wish gun proponents

were not so adamant about imposing laws designed for their way of life on our communities ( as through the Heller case). A gun in the city is very different from in a less populated area.

[hack89]

25. Consitutional rights should be the same regardless of where you live.

there are reasons we don't let states have their own abortion or voting laws.

[BainsBane]

29. they are

No right is absolute. I also have a constitutional right not to be killed, and that must be balanced against 2A rights. Why gun activists insist that tens of thousands die every year to satisfy their world view troubles me. I increasingly suspect that the purpose of such legal action is in part genocide.

[hack89]

35. States cannot restrict rights beyond what the Supreme Court says

there is a national minimal standard so to speak. Heller is that minimum standard at present.

Genocide? You do understand that we have cut our murder rate in half since 1992. Gun violence, along with all violent crime, has been steadily falling for decades. You have never been safer - and next year you will be safer yet.

[BainsBane]

48. We are no longer called Murderapolis

but I would prefer not hearing gun shots out my window.

I see no reason for someone living in a rural area to impose gun proliferation one an urban area unless, at the very least, they have a callous disregard for the lives of people living in the city.

[NutmegYankee]

54. People in rural areas have similar feelings

The laws that are imposed statewide to restrict firearms fall heavily upon the rural areas. For instance, registration would impose high fees proposed at $100 per weapon on some of the poorest people in a state. Many of whom likely inherited the weapons and use them for hunting and other rural needs.

One of the reasons there is such a nasty divide is that each side (rural and urban) seeks to impose their will on the other.

[BainsBane]

55. No city has ever sought to impose a state wide ban

While the right works to strip cities of their rights to determine public safety within their own jurisdiction. Unless someone is a criminal, they have no reason to fear registration. They pay a lot more than $100 bucks for a gun. They can afford to register it. That is the only way to effectively track gun violence, which any law abiding gun owners should want. There are basic public safety measures. Gun owners don't begin to pay the costs their hobby imposes on society.

There is no reason someone who doesn't plan on violating the law needs to worry about gun registration. We register cars. Gun registration is an incredibly basic measure for public safety. If people intend on breaking the law, they aren't going to like the idea of having a potential crime with their gun tracked. Otherwise, they have nothing to worry about. Cheapness is hardly a justification for not giving a damn for human life.

[NutmegYankee]

56. And obviously I disagree with you.

Registration would be an annual cost, so it's $100 x each weapons per year. That annual cost is something to worry about. Rural people are usually poor people. Why make someone a felon just because they couldn't afford the cost?

As for cars, you register the vehicle for the privilege of operating it on public roads. A project car in a garage or a car only used on farm/private land are not required to be registered.

[BainsBane]

57. not in all states

In FL a car has to be registered even if it is in storage. Registration could be done at the point of sale, like cars. It does not necessarily have to be a yearly fee. Or it could be done without charge. The point is to get the guns registered so crimes can be tracked.

[NutmegYankee]

58. Obviously I base my position off places I have lived.

Does the state arrest you if they find an unregistered inoperable car in the garage?

[BainsBane]

59. what states arrest people for unregistered guns?

Most proposed measures involve fines. The background check being debated tonight in the MN house has a fine as a penalty, not jail time.

Please reread my last post, reedited.

[NutmegYankee]

61. No, some states including mine have bills that make it a felony.

[BainsBane]

62. I suspect that is highly unusual

CT did just endure one of the more horrific mass shootings in the country's history.

[NutmegYankee]

64. Perhaps you see my concern.

A slight problem of cash flow or a paperwork goof could land someone in jail under the registration bills here. Hard time for basically no crime at all.

This is a serious bill and serious consequences. I also edited my last post to point out that most guns are handed down within families. Hence the point of sale wouldn't work for a long while.

[BainsBane]

66. an inherited gun would constitute a transfer

of ownership and therefore be subject to new registration. (Here I'm imagining hypothetical laws). But even if the owner didn't comply, registration at the point of sale would be far better than no registration. Other alternatives might be registering every five years, or something. Laws need not be written in ways that create heavy financial burdens. $100 a year seems excessive to me. I could see that much for a lifetime registration. The point should be to simply cover the cost of maintaining a registration system and database.

[NutmegYankee]

69. I think the other laws proposed would get you there.

Mandatory background checks for all transfers, including private, would create a log of who bought what. Sales in the stores already do. If person A bought a weapon, the store and state know he bought it. Under registration, they'd register it. If they then sold it illegally to someone on the street, who then gives it to another, and maybe another who used it in a crime, and dropped it, registration would only get you back to person A. At the same time, the serial number purchase record will also get you back to person A.

And without a crushing financial penalty and the fear of making a paperwork mistake each year.

[BainsBane]

70. perhaps

as long as private sales are covered. I see your point though.

[NutmegYankee]

72. That is a proposal in the state that I expect will pass.

And it's pretty reasonable. Go to the gun store, fill out the form and pay the store $25 (paid by buyer) for the background check and the transfer has been completed legally.

[BainsBane]

74. here in MN they've taken background checks

of hunting rifles off the table. They are currently debating background checks for handguns and military-type assault weapons, and even that is expected to die in committee. We are a blue state but have a lot of hunters.

I called every committee member today to express my views. We'll see what happens.

[NutmegYankee]

76. And I expect handguns to be a focus.

They are used in most Urban shootings. That is why Conn. already requires a permit just to buy one and another permit to transport one around in a car. It's a felony if you don't have the permit.

[BainsBane]

68. Or, as with cars

registration fees could vary according to the cost/value of the weapon. Collectibles could have special exemptions.

[NutmegYankee]

60. Registration wouldn't help track most crimes.

It's only useful if the gun is left at the scene. A classic drive by would only leave bullets, which are not traced back to a registered gun because tracking each unique barrel mark would be impossible for the state to implement and pay for.

My point of contention about rural folks is that many have hand-me down guns. All but one of my guns was inherited from family. I paid nothing to receive the weapon.

[BainsBane]

63. I would think it would be beneficial to law enforcement

and enable them to narrow down possible suspects. Since the same people tend to commit some common crimes, like armed robbery, registration would create obstacles to their criminal activity, as would universal background checks.

[NutmegYankee]

65. Only if you aquired the gun from the crime scene.

And as it is most new guns are traceable back to the point of sale. All handguns in Conn. are already traceable back to who bought it. Registration wouldn't get you any closer than that.

[BainsBane]

67. Can't ballistics tell you the type of gun?

My extensive knowledge derived from TV cop shows tells me it does.

[NutmegYankee]

71. The ballistics requires you to fire each gun into a water tank

and analyze the marks from the barrel. That would need to be done on all 4 million guns within Conn. alone. The logistics are mind boggling. And the other problem is that barrels are easily changed out and are not tracked with a serial. So I could buy a new barrel and the round is again "untraceable". And barrels do wear out over time.

It works for police as they have the gun in hand and can prove that it fired the bullets used in a recent crime.

[BainsBane]

73. for a precise match

But can't they say this bullet can from a 9mm or something like that?

[NutmegYankee]

75. Oh yeah, but what good would that do?

There may be a 100,000 9mm handguns in the state.

[BainsBane]

78. narrows it down a bit, I guess.

[NutmegYankee]

80. That can be done now if the bullet stays intact

Sometimes the bullet fragments on impact, and then it's fairly difficult to piece it back together. They also tend to deform since they are made of a soft metal. There are multiple factors that affect the outcome.

[BainsBane]

81. in that case, you don't have ballistics readings period.

[BainsBane]

89. No, you don't

You need to leave us alone and quit trying to control everyone else.

"Like to kill each other." That really is a repulsive comment.

[hack89]

90. And you in turn will leave us alone?

you were the one complaining about gun shots outside your window. That doesn't happen where I live - what makes you city people different then us?

[BainsBane]

91. if only everyone were white and prosperous

everything would be okay then? Maybe then we wouldn't like "to kill each other" quite so much.

When it comes to guns, it's the pro-gun elements working to promote gun proliferation in urban areas, not the other way around. You'll notice the rampage killings nearly always occur in small towns.

So much for your support of gun control. That didn't last long, did it?

[apocalypsehow]

52. Looks like our pal hack has re-discovered that he's NOT a "gun control advocate" after all...

...I wonder why?

[BainsBane]

53. I'll give you one guess.

Okay, you don't need it.

[Bay Boy]

31. States don't have their own

abortion laws?

[hack89]

37. They cannot violate Roe v Wade

The Supreme Court sets a minimum standard as it were for constitutional rights. State law cannot violate that minimum standard.

Just as Roe v Wade is the minimum standard for abortion, Heller is for guns.

[BainsBane]

77. they are currently trying

a number of states are passing laws that violate Roe.

[hack89]

88. States and cities pass unconstitutional laws all the time

and they get swatted down all the time.

Chicago learned that lesson the hard way - they have written a lot of checks to pro-gun organizations.

[spin]

84. That may depend on which state you live in. ...

I lived in the Tampa Bay Area of Florida for 37 years. Most of my neighbors and co-workers owned firearms and quite a few of my co-workers had concealed carry licenses.

Of course I anticipate the mandatory derogatory comments about Florida so I will post this article.

Florida firearm violence hits record low; concealed gun permits up
Debate continues over relationship between guns and crime

By JACOB CARPENTER
Posted January 6, 2013 at 5:15 a.m.

In the so-called Gunshine State, home to the most gun permits in the country, firearm violence has fallen to the lowest point on record.

As state and national legislators consider gun control laws in the wake of last month's Connecticut school shooting, Florida finds itself in a gun violence depression. The Firearm-involved violent crime rate has dropped 33 percent between 2007 and 2011, while the number of issued concealed weapons permits rose nearly 90 percent during that time, state records show.
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2013/jan/06/fla-firearm-violence-hits-record-low/

Now I do agree with the rest of the article that it the fact that gun violence and crime has fallen in Florida can not be solely attributed to more guns and more concealed weapons permits. The crime equation has many factors. However it should be obvious that more guns and carry permits did not lead to more gun violence in the "Gunshine State."

[Gravitycollapse]

21. If we want to attack crime, we should be banning .22 pistols, not shotguns.

[BainsBane]

24. Heller prohibits handgun bans

but says "exotic weapons" can be prohibited.

[Gravitycollapse]

26. Yeah, and that's a problem because people are being murdered with .22 pistols and revolvers

Not shotguns.

[BainsBane]

30. they are murdered with both

But clearly more people are murdered with handguns. Under the current Supreme Court make up, we are stuck with that ruling. Hopefully that can change in the future.

[krispos42]

39. Cops had to pop one last year, two houses down.

It was stumbling and listing as it wandered around in broad daylight. I called the cops, they came by and shot it. Whatever it was, it was sick and dangerous.

There are LOTS of kids in the neighborhood. 12 in the immediate area.


I would have shot it myself if I didn't think I'd have gotten in trouble for it.

[BainsBane]

47. I wonder what the cause is?

Whatever is their natural predator may have decreased in population. Something is causing this.

[NutmegYankee]

49. We used to have mountain lions and other top predators.

Mountain lions are said to be exinct in Conn. but one was hit a year or so ago on the Merritt Parkway and there are occasional sightings.

[baldguy]

23. Let me get this straight - Because some trivial # of rabid skunks might root through the garbage

We have to put up with more than 30,000 humans dead and 75,000 humans injured due to gun violence each year?

Sounds like mosquito hunting with Monty Python.

[idwiyo]

33. K&R thank you for posting this. I needed a laugh and this one is sure funny.

[devilgrrl]

27. Rabid Skunks!!! That settles it! I'll go out and buy a gun just for that purpose alone!

They're probably more of a threat than my neighbors.

[NutmegYankee]

28. Do you live in a rural area?

[devilgrrl]

32. I do not but I am aware that guns are useful in ridding predators and various other critters

I thought his suggestion was silly for us city slickers, because it kind of is. If there's a rabid animal around, we can make a call to animal control. I doubt we're allowed to shoot animals within city limits.

[NutmegYankee]

36. Yeah, most cities don't allow discharges of firearms within their boundaries.

And with good reason, as the bullets if not properly aimed can strike other dwellings or property.

The main reason a .22 is good for varmint hunting is that it leaves a small wound and normally doesn't over penetrate (no exit wound). If a critter does have rabies, the last thing you want to do is blast out it's guts and blood (which carry the virus) over a large area. Using a shotgun at close range or a higher power rifle could make quite a mess.

[MadHound]

92. Not everybody lives in the city, many folks live in the country,

Where there are no animal control officers, thus we have to take care of such matters ourselves.

[devilgrrl]

93. Really? No way.

I'm not a sixth grader either btw.

[MadHound]

94. Then stop posting condescending replies, OK.

Since you are smarter than a sixth grader, then you should realize that everybody's situation is different, and make allowances for that, rather than being snarky, rude and condescending.

You want respect, then give it.

[devilgrrl]

95. Your insinuating people can't tell the difference between machismo and necessity is condescending.

I'm not the only one here with a silly reply to your initially silly post.

The o.p. is targeting machismo, not rural people who need guns because of predatory animals.

[MadHound]

96. Given the tone and tenor of many of the posts about guns, it seemed that the point needed to be made

If you found that to be condescending, that's your problem. BainsBane and I actually had a nice, civil conversation on the topic of my post earlier. You could have read that and seen that I wasn't condescending, but you chose to be offended. Again, that's your problem, not mine.

[devilgrrl]

97. Well, I hope you don't have to deal with any rabid animals and that the situation improves.

eom

[graham4anything]

50. I love the smell of skunk in the morning. I hate the smell of a bullet in a private citizens gun

to paraphrase Robert Duvall

[whistler162]

12. You forgot the important one....

[Gravitycollapse]

17. Yep, tough guys like the French Resistance didn't need guns.

I'm sure they could just will the Nazis to stop enslaving and genociding their people.

[idwiyo]

34. WTF French Resistance have to do with any of this? Are you expecting invasion from Canada or Mexico?

Or is it EU who is going to take over US and force the Universal Declaration of Human Rights AND UK style NHS down unwilling American throats?

[baldguy]

38. The poster is trying to paint people who think we need some rational gun control as Nazis

Because gun owners are the "new Jews" - being all persecuted & stuff.

[idwiyo]

41. Oh, you mean he is one of those... I'll leave him to his delusions than. :)

[Gravitycollapse]

45. Nope, actually a staunch gun control advocate.

[NutmegYankee]

44. I'd compare gun owners to Catholics on DU.

They both make up a decent chunk of the Democratic coalition, and some DUers really hate them. Both are members of their respective group by beliefs and culture. And both catch a lot of shit on the board.

No offense intended to either group.

[Gravitycollapse]

46. You will actually find that I am a strong supporter of strict gun control.

[idwiyo]

83. I apologise for misunderstanding but really in context you did sound like one of them crazies.

Hence me asking if you are afraid of Canadian invasion.

[Gravitycollapse]

85. On the contrary, I would welcome our maple overlords.

[idwiyo]

86. LOL. You'd like EU/UN even better.

[freshwest]

98. I've been expecting them to take over for years!

Welcome to the General Headquarters of the Campaign for Canadian World Domination! Your future tyrants are General Claire and General Jenny. The Generals are Canadian chicks who are taking over the world and re-designing it to suit their aims.

We will accomplish this goal by:

• The systematic destruction and sublimation of all opposing our inevitable Canadian reign – and the polite, yet horrifically brutal, control of our future territories of conquest.

• Infiltrating the USA and through a cleverly designed plan, destroying it, and using its resources for our own purposes.

• Demonstrating to the world that Canada is the final and ultimate power.

• Decontaminating the world of Non-Canadian influence.

• Reorganizing a New World Society of Canucks to suit our loving, kindly, peaceful and diabolical aims.

http://www.standingonguard.com/index2.html

Unfortunately, they have hidden the map showing their plans for the conquest of the USA. Sneaky Canadians. OTOH, they may have given up.

[Iggo]

40. The UN better not try genociding me!!!

That's all's I'm sayin'.

Know'm say'n?

[idwiyo]

42. No genociding BUT you will not be able to openly preach homophobia. It's will be against the law.

And there will be some tough employee protection laws too. And some other horrible commie stuff but I don't want you to be scared too much. All I can say is you will get used to it and even learn to like it.

[Gravitycollapse]

43. What I'm saying is the OP implies that tough guys never need firearms.

Which is absolutely not the case.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

79. A few nights ago I saw a pro-gun control advocate with a Che Guevera avatar

*That* took a lot of mental gymnastics. The Guy Fawkes avatars too.

[idwiyo]

82. You gotta be kidding... Seriously? Damn, my head is spinning.

Some of them are really batshit crazy, there is just no way around it.

[malaise]

51. LOL

Did you see this?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022533349

[Electric Monk]

99. Hilarious!