Tile Setting Hurts like hell

[Bennyboy]

When you start in the trade the boss tells you move this. Onto the truck. TWO tons of stuff. Sand, cement, clay, thinset and box after box of tile. 2 tons. FIVE TIMES you move it. On the truck, off the truck, through the box, into buckets, into the house and on the walls or floor. essentially you move two tons of stuff five times, each and every day you work.

The wage today is unchanged from the 80's and in some cases is actually less, thanks to right to work and piece work. No healthcare, No retirement. No future. Once you are broke down you are broke down. Then there is nothing but pain. intense pain from the tips of toes to the tips of your fingers. FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. So bad is the pain that all i want to do is have it go away.

And yes this is in response to the porn actress. Pain and being used is not uncommon but everyone jumps on the pron angle. well come on to the job site someday and work one day in 110 degrees and move two tons of shit five times each and every day.

[Auntie Bush]

1. That is an AWFUL job.

My son did it for awhile an used to tell me how difficult it was. He tiled my bathroom in between seminars and I saw it for myself. And they want to change the retirement age to 69. Too many tradesmen will never make it and I feel sorry for them!
You have my condolences.

[Bennyboy]

2. I'll never make it to 62...

the pain is overwhelming and I cannot go on like this anymore. Im 57 and haven't eaten anything for three days and am trying to starve to death right now. Done. No healthcare. No doctor. No meds. Top that with three abscessed teeth and you get the idea.

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

4. If you are a veteran the VA will pull the teeth...

Sorry to hear about your condition. I worked with a chainsaw for several years, and still need to cut my firewood. I'm not a "Happy Camper" with my shoulder and elbow pains, but at least I collect some Social Security and don't have to work with a weed eater or chainsaw to pay the bills any more.
Best Wishes,
ADW

[spooky3]

6. Please don't give up. Get help. Please

Let us know how you are getting along.

[Bennyboy]

8. What I listed above is only part of it...

Squeamish Carcinoma on right leg and evidence of another one on my face. Carpal tunnel so bad that it make me cry.

And then there is the fact that I am a caregiver for my Mom whom I dislike immensely. (Due to my Father using me as cheap and in a lot of cases free labor, settting tile. I started doing Man's work when i was ten years old and My Mom did nothing about that or the bazillion other things my Dad did to me) been at it for five years and I am at the very end of that right now with no relief (Tonight is my trivia night and obviously I am NOT at trivia).. Now I cannot do anything and thanks to her not dealing with a form on time< I get no money and have had NOT ONE DIME SINCE January. I am at least another month from being paid and my car is about to die.

I didn't start this thread to be a woe is me thing but I am at the very end of it right now and have no idea how to deal with anything. because i am on the payroll (despite the SNAFU) I ahve to pay out of pocket for any and all medical care even though I only make 500 dollars a month. I just went through that withe a stuck Q Tip that cost me 11 hundred dollars.

[Honeycombe8]

15. Would you qualify for Medicaid? And food stamps? If not, can you Google for cheap clinic

in your area? I did in my city and was surprised to find a family clinic. It's far from me, but I wanted to locate one, just in case I had to have med treatment and was broke.

You're in a terrible situation, alright. You should qualify for Medicaid, though, I would think. Although almost no dentists take Medicaid patients. Still, there is probably one within driving distance of you.

Hang in there. You have a place to live, right? Food to eat?

No chance of getting an easier job? Even at a burger joint or Subway joint...or store clerk like at Target or Walmart? They'd be easier on you physically.

Why are you taking care of your mother, if she sucked as a mother? No brothers or sisters?

Keep us posted! Don't go away. We care.

[Bennyboy]

48. Nope do not qualify

For either one. Not for CMSIP (indigent health services) either because I am employed. (my take home is 500 a month and that disqualifies me from all of that). Single guy's get shit. I have been turned down for disablity twice now (over a three year period).. and according to my attorney, Due to not having healthcare for ten years now, I will not qualify this time either because I do not have health records to substantiate my injuries and disabilities..

I am taking care of my Mother because my brother, who was the darling of the family, moved to Montana 4 years ago to avoid that. And that left me. For a while I was doing it because it was the right thing but as the years tick off it is killing me. She becomes more selfish as the days go on and she gets more demanding but my hours keep getting cut. I should be making enough hours to get medical insurance (SEIU) but I don't and won't...and there is a two year waiting list once you get the hourly threshold. the thing is my Mom is a hard core right wing bible beating republican and has voted against all that, She voted for Arnold and he is the guy who made IHSS the whipping boy of CA and got my hours cut four times.

[Aristus]

10. Find out if there's a local community health clinic near you.

They're not free (as I think they should be), but they can create an account for you and bill you based on a sliding scale tied to income level.

Please get some medical care...

If I were there, I would treat you for free.

[Bennyboy]

13. Not here sadly...

Top it all of I am type 2 diabetic and have no medical care for that. Or meds or test strip of the tester dealy...I was hoping that the remote Medical clinic was gong to come this year, as they have in the past three years, but they are not coming to Sacramento this year. The teeth I was trying to make it to April but now if they are not coming this year I am screwed tot he max.

[Honeycombe8]

19. You live in Sacramento? I did a search for you and found a lot of free & low cost clinics & dental:

I don't know if they're still there, but here's what I found (if you go to my link, the clinic names are links to more info). There are free clinics listed, and some sliding scale low cost clinics for low income people, and some dental possibilities listed. It'll be a hassle going, and you'll probably have to wait a while to get in, but at least it looks like there's a chance you can get health care and MAYBE dental. At least a chance.

Five FREE Clinics in Sacramento County

March 17, 2013

Here are five free clinics in Sacramento. These walk in clinics provide free health care and medical to people with no health insurance. I personally made this list and it is updated from time to time. I also organized the free medical clinics by area Free Clinic North Highlands > Free Clinic South Sacramento > Free Clinic Folsom > Free Clinic Natomas - Rancho Cordova You can got to any location availible. You may also want to check out the Low Cost Clinic / Free Dental / Free Immunizations. For immediate assistance go to a emergency room clinic>> I hope this Free Clinic list is what you are looking for.

http://onefatherslove.com/medicaldentalsacramento.aspx

When I clicked on the above links, I found:

Health for All (Formerly Las Palmas Clinic)
1281 North Avenue, Sacramento, CA 95838 map
Ph. [phone] Mon. - Fri. 8:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m.
Free medical care clinic for income-based physicals and immunizations for children. Offers temporary health insurance to serve all uninsured children. Includes STD testing for uninsured teens and adults. Provides family planning services.
_________________________________________
Mercy Clinic North Highlands
6060 Watt Avenue - (located in a bungalow behind SC Joice Elementary School)
North Highlands, CA 95660 map

Ph. [phone] - Hours: Monday through Thursday 8:30 a.m. - 4:00 p.m.

Free medical and health care clinic by appointment. No Fee medical clinic- No Co-pay health care

Meadowview Clinic
2118 Meadowview Road, Sacramento, CA 95832 map
Ph. [phone] Mon. - Fri. 8:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m.
Free and income-based physicals or children.
_________________________________________
Hope Well Child Clinic
4401 44th Street, Sacramento, CA 95820 map
Hours: Monday and Wednesday 8:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m.
_________________________________________
County of Sacramento Primary Care Clinic
4600 Broadway, Sacramento, CA 95820 map
Ph. [phone] Mon. - Fri. 8:00 a.m. - 9:00 p.m. [phone]-24hr clinic information.

The Primary care clinic provides walk in non-emergency services, including dental, to people with CMISP or no health insurance and the homeless.
___________________________________
Joan Viteri Memorial Clinic
(located at Harm Reduction Services)
3647 40th Street, Sacramento, CA 95817 map
Saturdays: 12:00 p.m. – 5:00 p.m.
Free medical clinic on most Saturdays. Sign ups at 12:00 p.m.

Mercy Clinic Folsom
Theodore Judah Elementary School
105 Dean Way, Folsom, CA 95630 map
Ph. [phone]
Offers free clinic and low-cost preventive and primary medical healthcare services.

Paul Hom Asian Clinic
6341 Folsom Blvd. Sacramento, CA 95819 map
Ph. [phone]
Saturdays: 8:00 a.m. – 1:00 p.m.
Free medical health clinic providing primary and acute care services. Also assists the Pacific Islander community.
_________________________________________
Natomas Crossroads FREE Clinic
1101 National Drive, Suite A, Sacramento, CA 95834 map
Ph. [phone]
Free Medical Clinic is open on the 1st Saturday of each month from 1:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. No Fee-No co-pay.
_________________________________________
White Rock Family Clinic
10495 White Rock Road, Rancho Cordova, CA 95670 map
Ph. [phone] Mon., Tue., Wed. 8:30 a.m. - 4:00 p.m., Thursday 12:30 p.m. - 8:00 p.m., Friday 9:00 a.m. - 12:00 p.m.
Free medical health clinic for the income-eligible. Not a walk in clinic - you must apply and provide proof of income, residency and ID. Two weeks waiting until seen.

POSSIBLE FREE DENTAL:
Paul Hom Asian Clinic
6341 Folsom Blvd. Sacramento, CA 95819 map
Ph. [phone]
Saturdays: 8:00 a.m. – 1:00 p.m.
Free medical health clinic providing primary and acute care services. Also assists the Pacific Islander community.
_________________________________________
Natomas Crossroads FREE Clinic
1101 National Drive, Suite A, Sacramento, CA 95834 map
Ph. [phone]
Free Medical Clinic is open on the 1st Saturday of each month from 1:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. No Fee-No co-pay.
_________________________________________
White Rock Family Clinic
10495 White Rock Road, Rancho Cordova, CA 95670 map
Ph. [phone] Mon., Tue., Wed. 8:30 a.m. - 4:00 p.m., Thursday 12:30 p.m. - 8:00 p.m., Friday 9:00 a.m. - 12:00 p.m.
Free medical health clinic for the income-eligible. Not a walk in clinic - you must apply and provide proof of income, residency and ID. Two weeks waiting until seen.

Wait...there's more. Here is this:

MEDICAL Health Care Clinic-Community Clinic Sacramento 2013

March 17, 2013

Here you will find twenty sliding scale and low-cost community clinic locations in Sacramento, CA, including a range of women's health and primary care services. There are also low-cost health and medical center resources of low cost medical services offering you primary care, affordable co-pay walk in medical treatment. We have included words in ”blue" that underline on mouse over, which will take you to websites with even more information to meet your low cost medical needs and all links open in a new window, so feel free to explore. We hope this low cost medical clinics list is what you are looking for.
Ready to be healthy?
_________________________________________
Downtown Clinic
923 V Street, Sacramento, CA 95818 map
Ph. [phone] Mon. - Fri. 8:00 a.m. - 2:00 p.m.

Provides primary care services with insurance or sliding scale.
_________________________________________
Sacramento Native American Health Center
2020 J Street, Sacramento, CA 95814 map
Ph. [phone]

Sliding scale and Medi-cal for under 21 age group only.
_________________________________________
Molina Medical Clinic
3234 Marysville Boulevard, Sacramento, CA 95815 map
Ph. [phone] Call 24/7 to locate one of 15 locations. Payment by Medic-cal and privately income-based.
_________________________________________
The Effort Martin Luther King Jr. Village
3900 47th Avenue, Sacramento, CA 95824 map
Ph. [phone] x4 Mon. - Fri. 8:00 a.m. 5:00 p.m. Closed every other Friday. Income eligible.
Provides primary care, women’s health, pregnancy testing, immunizations on a sliding scale from 30.00 - 120.00 for income eligible families. Provides children’s dental for sliding scale if they are uninsured.
_________________________________________
The Effort South Valley
8233 E. Stockton Boulevard, Sacramento CA 95828 map
Ph. [phone] x2 Mon. - Fri. 9:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m.
Provides adult a pediatric care, women’s health, prenatal care, pregnancy testing and immunizations for income eligible families.
_________________________________________
The Effort North Highlands
6015 Watt Avenue, North Highlands, CA 95660 map
Ph. [phone] Mon. - Fri. 8:30 a.m. - 8:00 p.m. and Saturday 8:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m.
Provides primary care, women's health, pregnancy testing, immunizations on a sliding scale from 30.00 - 120.00 for income eligible families. Provides children’s dental for sliding scale if they are uninsured.
_________________________________________
The Effort Medical Health Services
1820 J Street, Sacramento, CA 95814 map

Ph. [phone] x1 Mon. - Fri. 9:00 a.m. – 5:00 p.m.
Will accept Medi-cal, Medicare, Blue cross and low cost sliding scale of 30.00 minimum fees for income-eligible.
_________________________________________
Refugee Health Clinic
4600 Broadway, Suite 2100, Sacramento, CA 95820 map
Ph. [phone]
Serves people with refugee status from overseas. If you have refugee status, call and they will describe what you need to know.
_________________________________________
Mercy Clinic
3911 Norwood Avenue, Sacramento, CA 95838 map
Ph. [phone] Call for an appointment. Monday - Friday 8:00 a.m. - 4:30 p.m.
Provides General and Family medicine, Child Health and Disability program and Well Women visits.
Accepts Medi-Cal, Geographic Managed Care, Healthy Families and call to determine if accepting new patients for sliding-scale eligible services.
_________________________________________
Women's Health Specialists
1750 Wright Street, Suite 1, Sacramento, CA
Ph. [phone]
Toll Free 24 Hour Help Line: 1-800-714-8151

Compassionate, non-judgmental Reproductive Health Services. Free STD/STI/HIV testing for men & women - Free Pregnancy Testing - Free Birth Control and Condoms - Pregnancy Referrals to low-cost Ob/Gyn's - Adoption Services - Abortion Care.
_________________________________________
Sacramento Community Clinic-Southgate

South office

7275 E. Southgate Drive, Suite 204 & 206, Sacramento, CA 95823 map

Ph. [phone] Mon. - Fri. 8:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. and Saturday 8:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m.

North office

2200 Del Paso Boulevard, Sacramento, Ca 95815 map

Phone: [phone] Mon. - Fri. 8:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. and Saturday 8:00 a.m. - 12:00 p.m.

Payment options: Medi-cal - Medi-care - and Uninsured patients for Sliding scale fees with a medi-cal denial letter.
Provides: Primary Care - Immunizations - Mental Health - Chiropractic Care - Family Planning - OB/GYN -

Hearing & Vision Screening - Occupational and Screening Physical Therapy - Wellness and Prevention Education. Specialist Referrals - Substance Abuse – Dental.
_________________________________________
Sacramento Family Medical Center

Services for families or referrals to a specialist. Fees paid by Medi-cal or sliding scale. Appointments/walk-ins accepted.

· Carmichael

2928 Eastern Avenue, Sacramento, CA 95821 map
Ph. [phone] Mon. - Fri. 8:00 a.m. - 5:30 p.m. and Last Tuesday of the month 9:00 a.m. - 5:30 p.m.

· Rancho Cordova

10390 Coloma Road, Suite B, Rancho Cordova, CA 95670 map
Ph. [phone] Mon. - Fri. 8:00 a.m. - 5:30 p.m. and Last Tuesday of the month 9:00 a.m. - 5:30 p.m.

· South Sacramento

3811 Florin Road, #9, Sacramento, CA 95823 map
Ph. [phone] Mon. - Fri. 8:00 a.m. - 5:30 p.m. and Last Tuesday of the month 9:00 a.m. - 5:30 p.m.

· South Sacramento

4730 47th Ave, Sacramento, CA 95824 map
Ph. [phone] Mon. - Fri. 8:00 a.m. - 5:30 p.m. and Last Tuesday of the month 9:00 a.m. - 5:30 p.m.

· North

3441 Marysville Boulevard, Sacramento, CA 95838 map
Ph. [phone] Mon. - Fri. 8:00 a.m. - 5:30 p.m. and Last Tuesday of the month 9:00 a.m. - 5:30 p.m.
_________________________________________
Planned Parenthood - Services

· Fruitridge health Center

5385 Franklin Boulevard, Suite A-D, Sacramento, CA 95820

Ph. [phone] Call for an appointment

· Capitol Plaza Health Center

1125 10th Street, Sacramento, CA 95814
Ph. [phone]

· B Street Center

201 29th Street, Suite B, Sacramento, CA 95816
Ph. [phone]

[Bennyboy]

55. Thanks for that.....

But... None of those is actually a free clinic. Most of them only take families with kids. The others are clinics that you go to when you qualify for CMSIP. Others are so far away that it is impossible and the lines are so long that nobody gets seen. And they charge $$, something of which I do not have (500 bucks a month, you know) Also some of them are not operating anymore.

And none of them offer long term type care that I need. The carpal Tunnel, the carcinoma etc...

I've been doing this for a while now and so that's a road I have been down many times.

In today's Sac bee: http://www.sacbee.com/2013/03/21/5280067/hed-here.html

[Honeycombe8]

106. You make about $6k a year? Can you qualify for Medicaid? nt

[Bennyboy]

107. Eventually...

But not now. I make too much for CMSIP (at 500 a month!) and the Medicaid thing is being worked on right now...

[Sissyk]

60. Honeycombe8,

you are a special person!

[Honeycombe8]

105. Thanks! :) nt

[Bennyboy]

108. And thanks again..

really made me feel good last night to know that I am not alone. really lifted my spirits.

[kdmorris]

45. Check our Honeycombe's list - one of them should be able to help you

Please don't give up. I've been where you are...in intense pain, lost my job and had three little girls to care for. I knew in my heart that giving them to someone who could care for them and killing myself would be the best thing for everyone. I was able to get Medicaid and get treatment. I also have Type 2 Diabetes, so I know how that needs to be taken care of.

There are people here who can help you (I have several One Touch monitors and test strips that my new prescription service won't pay for - the made me switch to a Contour. Let me know if you want them to get your through until you see a doctor). Just let us know how we can help. There is a light at the end of the tunnel and I promise you it's not a train.

[Sissyk]

62. kdmorris,

another special person - you!

[snooper2]

71. I'll take tile setting all day long over roofing...

I'll take roofing all day long over setting mobile homes...


I'll take setting mobile homes all day long over working in a smelter..


I'll take working in a smelter all day long over working on a crab boat...


I'll work on a crab boat before I ever set foot in a fucking coal mine though

[Bennyboy]

79. I've done two of those

I didn't mind roofing. Or mobile Homes but I did neither one for long.......

[X_Digger]

3. Tiling, masonry, and roofing- three jobs I could never do again.

Roofing because of a) danger of falls, b) weird inclines and down on your knees for hours a day also ruins you, and c) the heat.

Masonry because I don't know a single mason over 50 who hasn't had at least one herniated disc, pinched nerve, or rotator cuff tear. Just slinging mud and brick tongs was enough for me.

[progressoid]

5. When I was in high school, we toured a pork packing plant.

It was...interesting. Hot, smelly, difficult work.

The one advantage was a starting wage of $16.00 an hour. That was in 1980. Today the starting wage is $8.50.

[HiPointDem]

92. meatpacking was one of the first trades hit under reagan. went from being a hard job with

relatively decent wages & benefits & some security to a shitty job with shitty wages and no security mostly under the radar.

[stevenleser]

7. And you aren't getting hundreds or even thousands a day to do it.

and besides physical abuse there are a lot of jobs that involve a ton of mental abuse.

"The customer is always right" attitude means that a lot of the folks in customer service jobs take abuse from customers all day long. That is just one example.

I think the overall answer to all of this is to push for plentiful living wage jobs for all. Then if people want to set tiles, be abused by customers or do porn, it's up to them but there would be choices at that point.

[Marie Marie]

9. And again I state: Those that would raise the retirement age never seem to do this type of work.

They sit on their fat asses and fat salaries and don't understand why everyone shouldn't continue to work until they are 70+. They wouldn't last a day in your job Bennyboy and I am so sorry to hear about all your health problems. I hope that you can find medical help somewhere - any clinics or dental schools near you? Please find some way to take care of yourself.

[reformist2]

11. There should be different retirement ages for different types of work.

[Honeycombe8]

16. Exactly!!!! No way the retirement age should be raised, esp for manual laborers! nt

[Kalidurga]

14. Your story is heartbreaking...

I have been dealing with health issues myself and they aren't as severe as yours yet, I have suddenly found that I can't even think about working right now let alone look for a job. I had a very physical job for almost 10 years and you are so right it does wear a persons body down very quickly and at times I went home in severe pain barely able to walk. I worked in a warehouse there was air conditioning but despite that the temp would easily be 100 degrees on some days. It also got very cold at times due to the garage doors being open on days where the temp was below zero well you can imagine. Then of course we had to go outside frequently and it's not always efficient to put on adequate clothing for the weather.

So, long story short I am applying for disability for a lot more reasons than that job but, it truly did make things worse.

What state are you in? Is it possible for you to get medical assistance and possibly a small cash grant? And what about your mom is she able to get disability payments and maybe someone to come in to help her out besides yourself. It's a horrible situation to be in taking care of someone that you don't like and when you need someone to take care of you on top of that.

[Trillo]

17. I think that's why in the 1800s it was common to have an alcoholic drink for breakfast,

lunch, and at least one for dinner. When the pain got too bad, there was always laudanum (or whatever it was called). As you had more and more, eventually you would drink all those pains away forever (one last drink, a bit too much, oops, but at least you weren't in pain).

[Boudica the Lyoness]

18. My dad worked from age 14 to 65

He was a bricklayer and did a five year apprenticeship in his teens.. He could not have worked a year more than he did, he'd had enough. I'm so amazed how he held up. He only had a achy shoulder. His hands were massive and rock hard. Now in his 80's he has a serious none work related illness.

Every time I hear these arse holes talking about raising the retirement age, I think of my dad. He was so happy to retire when he did and if someone had told him he'd have to work another year, I think he would have died on the spot.

Bennyboy, I have chronic debilitating pain from years of working too hard and an autoimmune illness. I feel for you. I take narcotics for it... just enough so I can still be useful and not have to distracted by the awful pain.

[redqueen]

20. .

Last edited Thu Mar 21, 2013, 08:10 AM - Edit history (1)

[Gravitycollapse]

21. I've been waiting for you.

I wanted to respond to this thread but felt I could not adequately express myself. Thank you for taking care of that for me.

[Apophis]

22. ...

[Le Taz Hot]

25. The dude just threatened suicide.

Was this really necessary???



Some days I just don't understand this place.

[Fumesucker]

27. Imagine how much worse his pain would be if posters were saying mean things about his religion

Yes, I'm being sarcastic at someone else's expense. A couple of someone's actually.

I think I understand this place all too well these days myself.

[Le Taz Hot]

31. Suicide threats trump everything.

All other issues need to be set aside.

[redqueen]

32. Sarcastic subject line mocking another thread, his second inside a week...

and usually threads where posters threaten suicide are locked within four hours.

It was also after midnight, so I skimmed. Cause, you know, subject line, history, etc.

Wondering why this thread wasn't locked if there's suicide talk.

[Le Taz Hot]

36. I take all suicide threats seriously.

I've PM'd the poster with no response. I'm VERY concerned.

[redqueen]

38. The stuff I wrote in my previous post was meant to explain why I missed the threat entirely.

I saw the snarky, sarcastic thread title, saw the username, and just replied.

I also would have thought any thread with suicide threats would be locked but I guess on DU3 that isn't done.

[Warren DeMontague]

54. He mocked! He mocked!

Call the mockery cops, remdi95 remdi95 one adam twelve, mock up on aisle seven.

[HappyMe]

35. Wow.

That's just fucking mean and heartless.

[datasuspect]

37. vile

simply vile

[jollyreaper2112]

69. damn

You are a cold, heartless thing.

[Poll_Blind]

73. Someone alerted on your post. Jury voted to LEAVE IT, 5-1:

At Thu Mar 21, 2013, 10:23 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

damn
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2547074

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Unbelievable. First warren comes in with a late attack and an attempt to stir shit, and now this guy with a direct personal attack, over a comment that was deleted hours ago. Personal attack, rude, disruptive, etc. Please hide.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Mar 21, 2013, 10:31 AM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: On the face of it, I don't consider this post rude, insensitive or over the top. To describe a person with which you disagree as "cold" or "heartless" is not outside the realm of discussion, and certainly not here. But I'm putting that aside for a second and examining the post they were responding to. It is not unreasonable, over the top or insensitive to respond to RedQueen's message in such a way. On the balance of those two examinations, I vote to LEAVE IT ALONE.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: Yes, it's a personal attack.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[pintobean]

75. That made me laugh

Thanks for posting.

[jollyreaper2112]

83. typical

And once again the alert system is used to censor; fortunately, the jury didn't cooperate. I didn't catch the thread live. I'm reading up on it. And Red Queen's comment was so disgusting, I felt compelled to respond.

My comment was not so much an attack but an observation. And no, I wouldn't have alerted on her comment. This is stuff that needs to be seen. You don't sweep this shit under the rug, you air it out in public so one and all can see how she feels.

[Sissyk]

87. HAHA!

First warren comes in with a late attack and an attempt to stir shit, and now this guy with a direct personal attack, over a comment that was deleted hours ago.

The post wasn't delete. It's still there in all its glory. All three versions of it. And how funny the alerter threw out warren's name in an alert on another poster.

This is hilarious.

[sufrommich]

91. Calling someone a "thing" is indeed a personal attack.

Alhough I wasn't on the jury,it's more proof that too many jurors vote on the basis of who the poster is instead of the post and it's why the system is broken.

[Apophis]

23. Don't you know?

Porn is hard work People have to lay down on a bed for many hours and they don't have air conditioning! And they get paid more!

[Gravitycollapse]

24. Pornography is actually very physically demanding.

Not to mention potentially brutal on the body. Especially considering the popularity of violent pornography.

[bemildred]

42. The problem is nobody will pay for ordinary sex or nudity, we are awash in free porn.

Only the kinky or "imaginative" stuff has a paying audience, and even then it's limited and very competitive, since the barriers to entry are non-existent. So we get this sort of arms-race in kinkiness and violence, like on TV, which has similar issues in the age of the internet.

[Warren DeMontague]

46. Interesting analysis, especially since I think television right now is producing some amazing stuff.

I remember when TV was uniformly formulaic drivel. Okay, PBS did some good stuff occasionally.. Remember "Cosmos"? That was groundbreaking because Carl Sagan actually put real science out there and didn't pull any punches. It was great, but it was unusual.

Now, you have Stephen Hawking and Neal DeGrasse Tyson and Brian Greene and that hot British Rock Star Science dude and the rest of them battling it out, to tell you about M-String Theory and Quantum Physics and the rest.

Oh, that's just the science channel, you say. What about the sewer-spawned filth that is produced under the auspices of "fictional drama"....

Well, okay. Breaking Bad. Mad Men. The Walking Dead, on AMC. Game of Thrones, Girls, etc. on HBO. Heavens, yes, there is some sex and violence on cable, but there is also some damn fine narrative storytelling going on.

Television is WAY better than it used to be. In fact, tv and movies have switched places, where movies are overwhelmingly formulaic shlock and tv is where the creative interesting risk-taking and artistry goes on.

Is there crap on TV? "Bridezillas" and "Jersey Shore"? Sure. But that's why God created the channel changer.

[bemildred]

51. The only thing you are not allowed to see on TV is sexual orifices in action.

"Girls" had some guy coming on some girls chest, which is porn all the way. Penises may be seen, erect penises may be seen, women's crotches may be seen, tits are as common as commercials.

I like to look at women, but I would never pay, I have no interest in anything fancy, or anything where the woman in the picture looks unhappy. I like happy sex. I don't like violence. So porn turns me off.

[Warren DeMontague]

53. So the problem is that we're "allowed" to see too much stuff on TV?

Interesting choice of words.

[bemildred]

100. Interesting to you maybe.

I've been watching TV since the 50s, and I take an interest in how it has evolved over time, and a prime facet of that is what gets censored, what is allowed and not allowed, and a lot of that - believe it for not - has to do with sex.

The only "problem" i mentioned was about why porn is so bad, a couple posts back, I was talking about my own tastes, I won't make that mistake again with you.

[Warren DeMontague]

101. And I'd say, if all you see about the landscape of television is what you've described, here

you're missing out.

Breaking Bad is excellent television. That contains violence, drugs, etc. Game of Thrones... is excellent television. That contains violence, sex, nudity, etc.

The Walking Dead- obviously, lots of yucky zombies.

Mad Men-- I love how people who've never watched the show get all mad about what they think it represents. It's not presenting that era or the anachronistic attitudes in a flattering light. It's fascinating storytelling, though.

Girls- is pretty well written. It's very compelling on a lot of levels. If all you see when you watch it are the parts that shock you, though, you probably shouldn't watch it.

[bemildred]

102. The basic problem here is that you want to defend TV and I'm not interested enough to attack it.

I was commenting on the fact that the porn business has been pushed to extremes by the loosening of censorship on other media and the general availability of stuff that used to be considered porn, but is now ubiquitious. And the same applies to other facets of media content, there is a sort of arms race to grab audience share.

I've watched those shows, I don't disagree with what you say, but I don't care very much.

[LittleBlue]

64. Dead on

That perfectly describes my opinion about TV.

I can still recall first watching Rome, Sex in the City, and Entourage. Probably began with Sopranos, but mid-2000s it turned into a flood. Didn't realize it would spark a revolution in TV. Hadn't watched TV dramas since childhood due to crap writing. Now the premium shows are all I watch on TV.

[PDJane]

26. I'm tired of people right now, and this thread is just one more reason why.

The jobs that this world needs are vicious and abusive, and the people who want to make one worse than the other or less than the other give me hives. I understand about jobs that wear the heart and the soul and the body. My mother worked in textiles from the age of 14 to the age of 75. Her hands do not work; her fingers are deformed, she can't grasp things, and just after christmas, she was trying to make tea....and spilled 1.7 liters of boiling water on her left hand because she couldn't hold the kettle. Between the job and my definitely abusive father, she has no confidence and is constantly furious at the world. I'm her caretaker, and we have very different personalities, but I cope. (by the way, at 86, she was appalled at the the overt racism of the last presidential election, and is furious that women are still blamed for rape.)

My father worked in various trades, and ended up a specialist in heating and cooling. He worked long and heavy hours, lifted and toted and carried and had apprentices. One of my brothers worked with him for a couple of summers, and when told by my father's boss that he was really good, and would he come work with them, was shocked and offended when my brother told him that he would not work at a laborers job, he was going back to school. For his intransigence, my brother had to pay for his own schooling. My father is dead now; I am convinced that the reason that his then partner didn't have a funeral for him was the fear of the traffic jams that all those people coming to make sure that he was dead would surely have caused.

Porn and prostitution leaves women battered, injured, and all too often dead. It doesn't pay enough for the damage done, not for the women or for the men, and the emotional damage it does is beyond fixing. Restaurant workers are abused, and the tips that are considered part of their pay are considered something to be forgotten by too many people. The hours are long, their wages and tips withheld, and the standing on their feet and trying to be pleasant to everyone is hard on their psyches.

Pay has gone down or remained stagnant for almost everyone, and even in Canada treatment for the poor is getting harder to find. Not that the medicine isn't there, but that a primary caregiver is getting harder and harder to find....if you are poor.

The fact is that work is not valued, thought is not valued, and the rich have decided that the common good isn't enough reason to give up one damn penny of their stolen gains...and make no mistake, they are stolen from thee and me. There is only so much money, and those who hoard their cash are a larger burden on the system than those who need to be taken care of. If work were valued, this stuff wouldn't happen.

[Fumesucker]

28. Godspeed, Bennyboy

[Warpy]

29. Just tiling the woodstove surround

made me deeply grateful I didn't have to set tile for a living.

However, all physically stressful work wrecks your body. Nurses get it in the knees, hips and back. And feet. All of mine are bad to the point that I've been on pain killers for the past 20 years.

Any desk jockey of any type who thinks raising the retirement age is a good idea needs to be put to work doing hard physical labor for at least six months, then asked again.

We need to lower the retirement age for people who do hard physical work and/or are confronted with the corporate age expiration date.

Raising the age is unconscionable.

[Yo_Mama]

93. Yep

Even 67 (the current age) is completely unrealistic for many people.

69? Hell, they'll never make it. And the people advocating this know it. It's really just a way to cut SS for these people to poverty levels.

[noiretextatique]

97. i have chronic shoulder pain

from typing on a computer 8 hours a day for 20+ years. sometimes the pain is so bad i can barely walk. doctors claim is not from typing on a computer for 20+ years, so i have to keep re-injuring myself every day. i can totally sympathize with anyone who works, from manual laborers to accountants and nurses. repetitive stress injuries cause a lot of damage over time, and the medical profession is still in denial, for the most.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. A lot of people read that porn article and missed the part where she said the work had its pluses.

Where she said that there were reasons consenting adults CHOOSE to do it.

[NaturalHigh]

33. Yeah, I have a cousin who did that for about thirty years.

He's pretty broken down now. Fortunately for him, he owned a piece of the business, so at least he has some financial security.

[Scuba]

34. Yet some banker sitting in a leather chair thinks working until age 70 and beyond is fine for you.

[RockaFowler]

39. I know how you feel

My husband was in construction his whole life. Then he was downsized. He was 55 years old and he had to start over. I can honestly say - Thank God. Now he works at Lowe's. It's hard work, yes. But not as painful on his back and/or physicality. And now he has health-care. When you work in construction you are sometimes a contractor and are basically self-employed. And here in Florida we are a Right-To -Work state. Or should I say Right to Get Fired for No Reason State. When he belonged to the union when he was in his 20's and 30's he was making a decent living. But like you the wages started to dry up and the work got harder. He's 58 now and I can't believe he could last past 65. The body takes a toll and sometimes you can't get better from it.

Take care my friend

[99Forever]

40. Yessir...

... and almost all of the other trades. But don't expect much sympathy around here. Once you are broken down and can't do it anymore, like most everything else in this heartless nation, you are disposable.

[bemildred]

41. Well said. Work sucks, and the less it pays, the more it sucks. nt

[kdmorris]

43. I can't imagine doing that for a living!

We (and by we, I mean my husband... I'm unable to bend over for long or carry heavy objects due to pregnancy - 6 months with twins) just tiled the master bedroom and, while he didn't complain, my husband's back, knees, arms and legs were killing him after two days of mixing/laying/carrying tile, thinset and grout.

You have my sympathy. That is right up there with roofing as back breaking, life shortening work.

[Orrex]

44. If you work in porn, you are only slightly more likely to get screwed than in other jobs

There are any number of meat-grinder industries out there running entirely on the physical exploitation of their workers. It's a terrible shame that passionate pro-worker advocacy sometimes overlooks the real toll of hard labor that doesn't also resonate with higher-profile political discussions, however legitimate those discussions may be.

I'm sorry for your pain, BennyBoy, and thank you for sharing your story.

[siligut]

47. This explains why I have considered you a tough, no-nonsense sort of guy

Your life has made you that way. Please use one of the clinics that honeycomb posted, getting your diabetes under control will do wonders for your mental health.

While you certainly have reason to be angry and down, blood sugar problems magnify pain from head to toe, both physical and mental.

Squamous cell cancer is fairly common and can be treated, best to get it early. Don't give up when there is still hope. One foot in front of the other.

Stay away from your mother as much as possible, take care of yourself

[Bennyboy]

49. Thanks. That's me....

I am a no nonsense guy I think. kind of a libertarian as well.
I have had the carcinoma for five years now. Lately it has enlarged and become very painful while another one is coming on by my eye.

[HappyMe]

52. I really wish there was some way

to help you.

[siligut]

59. The one by your eye should be a snap

The one on your leg might/will probably need surgery. Are you going to call the clinics? Just that one step can make a huge difference. Be specific so you don't waste your time or theirs.

Seriously, get in to see a healthcare provider. You will come out of this and you don't want to add facial disfigurement to the mix. Hope that sounds practical and not blunt or vain because it is very practical.

[siligut]

66. So you don't have Medi-cal?

I just saw your post about the clinics, of course you would already know and maybe the link you gave has contributed to your feeling of hopelessness.

But what about this one?

County of Sacramento Primary Care Clinic
4600 Broadway, Sacramento, CA 95820 map
Ph. [phone] Mon. - Fri. 8:00 a.m. - 9:00 p.m. [phone]-24hr clinic information.

The Primary care clinic provides walk in non-emergency services, including dental, to people with CMISP or no health insurance and the homeless.

I don't know where you live in Sacramento.

[Bennyboy]

78. First you must qualify for CMISP

And they will not even see you unless you are part of that. It takes weeks for the determination and If you do not qualify you are not able to be seen. Been there done that. My 500 a month disqualifies me for CMSIP.....( I went there first for my Qtip incident)

[Warren DeMontague]

50. Hey Benny. Let me reiterate what everyone else has said. Hang in there, brother.

Look at this tattoo! That'll cheer you up.

[RKP5637]

56. ... did that in the kitchen and bath here a couple of weeks ago. It's an incredibly hard

job. Just getting the tile into the house was a major feat. It must be horribly backbreaking to do this all the time. I used a 2-wheel dolly just to get one box at a time into the house. ... and those boxes were strapped together two to a package. I had to cut the straps and take one at a time in on the dolly. Then the cement board and all.

I really really appreciate the hard work professional tile layers do each day. And laying the tiles is certainly no simple task to get it right. I had a friend do the actual work, they used a cad/cam program just to get the layout and cuts right, even then it took a lot of thinking and planning to get it right.

I often wonder how many people really understand and appreciate all of the work professional tile layers do.

Great post you did !!!

[ceile]

57. hubby refuses to do it anymore.

he said if we ever change the tile in our house, he'll hire some people rather than do it himself. he worked in tile, on the sales and installation end, for over a decade. never again, he says.

[Laelth]

58. k&r for the truth. Excellent post. n/t

-Laelth

[Bennyboy]

61. And a big old thanks to you all (except for a couple anyways)

I did not start this thread to get into my personal stuff. I started it in response to the "Poor girl" who was in porn. A bricklyer or a roofer or a dishwasher could have said the same thing. Jobs suck. And the less you get paid, the more they suck (You should hear my temporary jobs I have done sometimes, for minimum wage, including brick laying and tile setting on schools for LABOR READY).

Thanks for your support and thoughts, I really appreciate it. This morning things aren't so bad< I can type for now. Later today it will be very painful.

[MattBaggins]

76. Really you only started this thread to slam porn workers?

Why do that? What is the point?

You could have come up with an op describing how work place protections need to be imporved for all vs. F you my life was worse so everyone should suffer too. I do not get it.

[Bennyboy]

82. No that is not it at all.....

Porn workers, construction workers, etc.... are all in the same boat and just because it is porn, doesn't make it any worse than many other people have it. In fact, porn is a short term thing while other jobs are ten times more demanding and take a much harder toll on the body than porn does. P

But people seem to think that because it is porn it is much worse. At least with Porn there is a choice there as to what kind of porn you do. BTW< Aurora Snow, the actress in the "Porn Hurts like hell" story" has neglected to mention a number of things about her career. She was a gang bang girl the day she walked on the set. Not threesomes, but tewnty somes. And nobody has to do that to have a career in porn.
Most porn actresses do that type of porn at the end of their career, but she started that way. Most do not ever go there at all.

[Coyotl]

63. I really like tile setting, frankly.

Sounds like you have an employer problem. Why aren't you the boss instead? It is easy to do tile work as a contractor, requiring few tools and little investment. Get out of production work and do custom work instead.

[Bennyboy]

67. I've done all that....

Still am a contractor in fact. Unless you got the jack $$$$ you are a one bucket guy and you gotta set the tile yourself. Been in the union too back in the 70's, Go to my journal and read Unions and Me)then got back in later, but then I broke down and i got into a tile related field after that which I can no longer do either.... Gotta keep in mind that I did this for forty years. And I had a good number of those years for piece work where I ahd to do a quota every day.Or I would lose money..... Such as ten tub surrounds. EVERYDAY. or 500 Sq ft of flooring, in and grouted, EVERYDAY. or two kitchen counters, with full splash and tile in sinks....EVERYDAY.

[99Forever]

90. The uninitiated have no clue, Benny.

Different trade for me, same kind of pressure and results. It's called "back breaking" work for a reason. I've actually done a good amount of tile as an amateur for ourselves. It's so much harder that even I, having worked in trades most of my life, would have imagined. Not just physically either.

[Coyotl]

98. And the life-long pros in construction know very well what the truth is

You know not to whom you speak.

[4_TN_TITANS]

65. I spent two years driving and moving for North American / Mayflower

while waiting for something better to come along, and it did. But I will never lose my profound respect for people who do that kind of work. That was hands-down the hardest job I've ever had, for so little pay.

[FedUpWithIt All]

68. Does your job have worker protections?

Does your job affect your reproductive future?

Does your job affect your sexual health?

[Bennyboy]

70. tHERE IS A FEEE FOR EVERY RIDE YOU HOP ON.....

There is a trade off for everything. Does Aurora Snow have COPD from breathing the dust from that trade? (I know four people right now that are on permanent oxygen, all in their mid fifties (How did I avoid that?) due to the shit the breathed in the trade.

I am guessing none of them can have sex either.

And, of course, you are jumping to conclusions there anyway about all porn actresses being damaged in that type of way. There are many porn actresses that have babies and kids etc. And that still have sex. And enjoy it.

[FedUpWithIt All]

72. And worker protections have improved since then as a result of their suffering.

That is the point. We see failings in something we are obligated as a a society, if we are a caring society, to improve things and make sure that suffering is minimized.

At least that is how some of us see our societal responsibility. I am aware that there exists many who couldn't care less as long as they, their loved ones and their preferences are not affected. "/ That is why it is taking us so long to make any progress.

[Bennyboy]

77. HA HA HA. You are so freaking wrong it is not funny....

Now there are NO Workers in the trades outside of unions. (at least in CA) Most, especially the shops that have a lot of work, are all independent contractors working by the piece so the contractors avoid all that shit. As a indy contractor you have to pay your helpers out of your take, not the original contractors.....(Most pay in cash) they avoid taxes, Workers Comp, etc...... they don't buy materials or gas or pay for mileage. Everyone is that way.

In fact< came upon a guy sanding a floor the other day. he was prepping it for a concrete stain and was creating a huge dust cloud. I said (because that is something I know well) I told him you better wear at least a mask and he told me his boss would not allow him to wear a mask. That it would make everyone freak out about the dust and he might get sued for it.

[FedUpWithIt All]

85. We're not talking about individuals or employees choosing to work outside of regulations

There ARE regulations in place in your line of work. Employers who choose not to follow or allow their employees to follow these regulations can be sued for compensation under liability torts. Independent contractors are not exempt.

The porn industry should also have regulations and protections and your post mocking this request is seen for what it is.

[Bennyboy]

86. You are reading to much into this...

Please show me where I said porn does not need to be regulated. or any other trade does not need to be regulated. I am all about workers rights. And I told you how, in my trade, and throughout construction trades, people get around that. As they get around Prevailing wage. I am not trying to belittle the porn people in the least, but they are not the only people out there that have it as bad or worse.

And I got some news for ya, Most hourly workers do not have the $$ to sue anyone for anything. I've tried that, even went as far as reporting my father (to labor relations board) for unsafe work conditions and guess fucking what? He won. even though I had photos of said working conditions. And testimony of his employees. Did it again too for working me for 24 hours straight and he won that case as well....

And what i reported him for was having sink cutouts stacked as high as the saws... And that you had to stand on them to use the saw which was what you did. he didn't pay his dumpster people and shit stacked up making every step you took unsafe in the shop....

[FedUpWithIt All]

88. I believed the article, which you are clearly responding to here, WAS about the need for regulation

in the porn industry. I guess i could be wrong but it struck me as if you were attempting to belittle the worker from that industry who was suggesting that the conditions were so dangerous to have no regulations. If that was not the intent, i am afraid i do not really understand what the intent actually was.

I agree with you that there is a LOT wrong with existing workers rights in this country. And that is a discussion that could be reasonably had WITHOUT forcing a false equivalency between fields which have poor enforcement of existing regulations/protections and the porn industry which has little to no regulations/protections at all.

I am sorry that you were forced to work in unsafe conditions. My own husband has worked pouring footers and commercial roofing (talk about a dangerous job) before he settled into a career as an auto service tech. It is not like i don't fully understand blue collar worker concerns. I just don't think that concerns in this area should somehow lead to a dismissal of the concerns of women's health issues as they relate to work in porn.

[Bennyboy]

89. Porn does have regulations......

http://www.dir.ca.gov/dosh/AdultFilmIndustry.html


In the adult film industry, these requirements include:

Following a written safety and health program, known as an injury and illness prevention program, or IIPP. In simple terms, an IIPP identifies potential hazards specific to the workplace and ways to protect workers from those hazards. Click here to view Cal/OSHA's model IIPP for employers with intermittent workers
Training employees in health and safety hazards
Protecting employees from electrical hazards, such as those associated with special lighting
Protecting employees from hazards associated with bloodborne pathogens
Providing sanitation facilities
Not discriminating against employees who complain about safety and health conditions.

[FedUpWithIt All]

94. Those are for the state of California.

Like i said, regulations and protections are extremely limited ("little or no&quot More needs to be put into place if there are workers who are still suffering lifelong disabilities as a result of this lack.

If your op was not mocking the request for more protections/regulations, and simply was a way for you to attempt to bring light to the issue of the poor enforcement of protections/regulations of workers in other fields, then we have no further argument.

[Warren DeMontague]

103. As long as "porn" is taken to include every time 2 consenting adults decide to have sex in front of

a camera, you're going to have trouble instituting any broad regulatory anything.

Perhaps distinctions need to be made between commercially produced material and stuff put together by amateurs for others to watch.

[backwoodsbob]

74. I here ya

I work in the steel industry.Same story.I have personally handled by hand over 120,000 pounds of steel through a machine in 8 hours.It is backbreaking.

4 more years is all I keep telling myself.In 4 years i will have enough in my 401 and profit sharing to pay cash for a little home,then i'm out

[Rex]

80. Pron is a strange beast...why is prostitution illegal

but pron not? Is it not the exact same thing? People are making money by selling their sex. Never could understand that double standard.

I hear ya about broken body, hurts like hell just to get out of bed. Hurts like hell when you go to bed.

[Bennyboy]

84. Yeah I never got the distinction either....

Paid for sex, same thing. Strippers too. What is the difference?

[jeff47]

104. Porn is considered "art", as a category of "film"

Thus it gets 1st amendment protection.

Prostitution, on the other hand, is icky. So we ignore all the rights that anti-prostitution laws stomp on.

[Rex]

109. That is just crazy since people make movies to make money

and prostitution is to make money. One of our stranger double standards in this country imo.

[Kali]

81. Bennyboy

please take siligut's advice above - one step

[just us]

95. Pay now or later

As my father would teach us when contractors wanted to go nonunion or would not pay health or pension, You can pay workers good wages to be able to afford health benefits or let the unions get better coverage or! pay low wages and no benefits and let the government or charity pay for it when you are old or disabled.

[NCTraveler]

96. That is probably where you get your compassion and understanding from.

Probably why you really feel toward those who have it worse.

[LadyHawkAZ]

99. Boyfriend did tile setting years ago

He refuses to do it again. Says it's a young man's game.

I hope you're able to find some medical care, somewhere.