General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA question for teachers: What do you think of cameras in the classroom?
I was generally opposed to surveillance cameras anywhere. Mostly, I continue to be so. The authorities, however, seem not to care what I think and hive installed all manner of cameras in all manner of places. Grudgingly, I have to admit that there is an upside to them, although I continue to be opposed to them.
That intro sets the stage for my question to the teachers amongst us. What do you think about cameras monitoring your classrooms?
This question was inspired by our dinner conversation tonight. We were talking about that teacher in California who was accused of molesting kids under the guise of a game, taking pictures of bound children, and getting the film developed at a CVS. The developing tech saw the pictures and notified the cops (as required by law).
Cameras in that guy's classroom would eliminate any doubt of what he did to the kids. No "he said/they said" back and forth. As bad cops get caught by their own dash cams, so would that guy have been caught by his classroom's camera.
On the flip side, teachers stand some risk of being wrongly accused by a manipulative child. Sparkly's ex is a music teacher in a public high school. As an arts teacher, he is all too often the object of some student or another's crush. (No, there is no chance whatsoever he invites or welcomes it.) His biggest fear over the years is some child accusing him of some wrong doing.
I use that as an example only because it is one I know.
On balance, I can see where more good than harm could come of cameras in the classroom. But I'm not a teacher.
What do you think?
mrmpa
(4,033 posts)I understand what you are saying with the teacher in California, and the he said/she said, he did/she did. However, the conversation in the past few years of installing cameras in the classroom has only been about using it to observe the teacher and to use the film in regard to rating the teacher and to give reasons for firing "bad" teachers.
It should also be noted, that in many states it is against the law to use cameras/film without the permission of the person being filmed. It is only when the person has "no" expectation of privacy when the film can be used.
I will only accept cameras in the classroom when you can promise me, that it will not be used in any way, whatsoever, as the only tool to critique the teaching of the teacher.
Stinky The Clown
(67,831 posts). . . . teacher's teaching.
obamanut2012
(26,158 posts)Teachers being setup, for example.
Stinky The Clown
(67,831 posts)obamanut2012
(26,158 posts)The Teacher of the Year. Having a very large young man get right in her face and corner her, and whispering filthy things at her, and she punched him.
Anyone ever in a classroom knows what I'm talking about.
Classrooms have large glass windows. There's no need for this.
Workplaces around the country have cameras "observing" their workers... why would you be against that for teachers? If a teacher is doing their job properly...there should be zero concern.
It protects the teacher from "false" accusations in their evaluations also. Not just for looking for negatives.
It goes both ways... but in the end... a negative evaluation would have to be backed up by the recording of that particular teacher. So for me ... it protects teachers that have gotten on the wrong side of the administration for some reason and makes the administration show why they feel the way they do instead of just putting it in a report and whether it is true or not.
YM
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)a few bad men? For the thousands of classrooms over hundreds of years, this is a solution?
No, this is just sad. If you feel this way, why not put cameras in the homes of people who raise kids?
Stinky The Clown
(67,831 posts)It was a question.
I'll put you down as "Opposed and Unwilling To Discuss Without Copping an Attitude."
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,831 posts)Everyone's opinion is the truth.
Yooperman
(592 posts)Schools are a public place and cameras should be allowed. For the protection of both the teachers and the students.
YM
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)Let's just have camera's in public restrooms. And in public hospitals. And in public churches. Let cameratize our entire existence.
And in the meantime the real crooks, the white collar boys, will still commit the egregious immoral and unethical acts possible.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Because the "need" for cameras, perceived or real, is an indication that something is terribly wrong with this classroom and this school.
If we give in to this symptom rather than cure the cause, we are giving up and doing a dreadful disservice to our clients, the learners.
mike_c
(36,281 posts)...in favor of a surveillance society. It's the foot in the door.
If we want to prevent a police state, the first step is to oppose constant surveillance of citizens going about the lives UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. I mean, I just don't think we can have it both ways. And someone will ALWAYS point out that if there were surveillance cameras in your bathroom, medical attention could be dispatched more quickly if you fell and hit your head. If there were surveillance cameras in your bedroom, you'd be better protected from home invasions. And so on.
I don't want to go there.
Stinky The Clown
(67,831 posts)And I agree. As I said, I am generally opposed to the whole idea of cameras everywhere.
As an aside, how did that guy get away with this for what now appears to have been years and years?
mike_c
(36,281 posts)...so I won't even speculate. But I would assume that at any given time there are WAY more people doing bad things than there are getting caught. And I STILL oppose surveillance cameras.
Your OP reminded me of the deputy sheriff somewhere in Arizona? New Mexico? Anyway, the deputy who was fired for having sex on the hood of his patrol car. The whole story seemed designed to sensationalize what he did-- the headline was something like "Deputy fired for soliciting sex in his patrol car," but the real story was he was off duty, he and his partner drove out to this 50,000 acre ranch in the middle of nowhere that was abandoned and under county care, so he had legal access and every reasonable expectation of privacy since they were behind locked gates MILES from the nearest public road, and they made out for a while, things got hotter, and they had exceedingly consensual sex on the hood of his car to avoid laying on the ground.
Thing is, they were within view of a "security camera" on the property that he didn't know about. No crime here, and any "misconduct" is minor at worst, but once that headline hit the paper his job was toast.
mia
(8,363 posts)at all times. Sometimes I fall short of my own expectations and hope that my students will experience the moment as positive,
and wish that my mistakes will be a bonus lesson in some way.
Stinky The Clown
(67,831 posts)And good for you.
I too, always conducted myself in the classroom as if everybody was watching me. Not sure about the privacy issues of many posting here. In my classroom it would definitely be helpful to have to show mom and dad, why "Johnny" failed my class...oh he slept in class everyday for the semester and never participated..." Plus as a male teacher and coach I never put myself in a compromising situation with female athletes or students, open door to classroom, never covered the glass in the door etc...Common sense stuff really, but in todays age of cell phone cameras/videos one can not be too careful. Then you get those idiotic rules about not touching students, patting them on the back for accomplishments etc...Tough to teach sometimes.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)*Stupid* cops get caught by their own dash cams. Any reasonably clever villain will just find a way to outwit the cameras and perhaps do even more harm for longer.
What if someone managed to hack into school cameras in the classroom and splash video of minors all over the internet with impunity? I just think the possibilities for abuse would far outweigh any net positives. I have big glass floor to ceiling windows all over my classroom, so anyone can see in and observe that we are all safe and learning. That would probably be better than cameras as a deterrent to abuse.
Stinky The Clown
(67,831 posts)"Big Glass Windows"
Yooperman
(592 posts)Your question was directed at teachers...however, all people should weigh in on this topic.
It is very easy for me.... Yes!!! YES!! YESSSS!!
It would protect both the teacher AND the student. It is a public place... we are under surveillance everyday ... on the street...in the work place... in businesses...
The campus of a school is a public place period.
Since I have been married to a teacher for so long...I have been witness to terrible teachers with very poor teaching qualities.... not that they "abused" the children...but sometimes it was the child's word against the teacher and sometimes it was the teacher who was the one who should have been disciplined. Who do you think the principle sided with? Cameras would help the administration make the proper decisions when it comes down to a student vs teacher issue.
Cameras would make evaluations of teachers more effective... instead of the principle telling the teacher that next Tuesday is your evaluation... and then to have the principle sit in the classroom to observe a particular instructor that makes sure they are well prepared that particular day, the evaluation could be made on any given day at any given time without the disruption of a principle in the classroom. The presence of the principle in the classroom changes everything in the class that day. The teacher puts forth his/her best effort and doesn't show what happens on an everyday basis. I have never thought this was an accurate depiction of a teacher's abilities. To be observed at any time without notice would give the administration a better view of how a teacher is doing and if a negative evaluation is given, the recording of the evaluation can be used to justify the report. This also would prevent biased principles as they would have to be able to show why they felt the way they do should his/her biased interferes with a fair evaluation and the teacher contests the evaluation.
In the end... I feel it would have a positive impact on all involved other than low end teachers...and I think we all understand that there are some teachers that shouldn't be teachers.
And for the record... My wife agrees. She would have loved to have a camera in her classroom at times with out of control 6th graders. Some violent in nature.
to all the great teachers out there that do more than most people realize to educate our children and set them on the right course for a successful life as an adult.
mia
(8,363 posts)who was out of control. Four months of documentation and endless meetings before he could get the help he needed. This isn't even counting the instructional time that was denied to the other students.
I'm sure that this is going on in classrooms across our country. These students are screened out of the Charter Schools.
Every year that I don't have a majorly-disturbed child in my classroom, I count my blessings. I watch YouTube videos of students walking across principal's desks just to feel like it's not just me.
My wife at times had 35 sixth graders in her classroom without an aid... at the time the school was trying to "mainstream" kids with severe behavioral problems. Some were very violent.
She had one student she could not allow to be alone with anyone for fear of him hurting someone.
It was brutal and for years a very stressful job for her. She certainly needed the 3 months off during the summers. Although the school did end up going to a year around system because of the number of students that the school had to take in.
YM
The Genealogist
(4,723 posts)as a TA. I had my own section of an intro course. Once a semester, I was evaluated on my teaching by one of the professors in the department. I always dreaded one I will call Dr A. Dr A is a micro-manager, and him as evaluator would result in my getting an hour or two sit down meeting in his office, where he would critique things like the color of my power-points (no colors should ever be used but blue and yellow). Most of it was him making sure I knew how badly I did, because I did something different from him. Not wrong, just different. He was notorious among TAs for pointing out something we did wrong that came directly from a requirement he enacted. I'm trying to think of what kind of hell the lives of the TAs with cameras in those classrooms. We'd have spent 10 hours a week going over every second of our classes, hearing things like how we should have swiveled our waists left instead of right at 7:39 into the class, or smirked instead of smiling at 11:13!
Yooperman
(592 posts)Poor administrators will always be poor at what they do. No system is perfect... I realize that...
That is why we still need Unions and oversight to protect educators that are treated unfairly. At least with video as a basis for evaluations both sides can see where weaknesses are whether that be with the evaluator or the teacher.
The bottom line ... it is a PUBLIC area.... the more eyes watching the better. This protects the children and the teacher. I don't see it as an invasion of privacy.
Thanks for your input ...
YM
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)And I often feel as though I'm treated accordingly. The assumptions, innuendo and gossip can be very destructive to me - "the teacher". I'd love to have an "objective angle" if you will to counteract some of the negativity while demonstrating the great positives.
Personally, I'd have no problem having cameras installed so my clients could watch me interact with their horse, others' horses, and the rest of the staff. It would dispel a lot of the rumour-mongering and fear that builds up for some clients since I spend so much more time interacting with their child (oops! horse!) on a daily basis than they do. And honestly, it's my job to reprimand and train. My clients have a love/hate relationship because they are with us so we can point out the problems and tell them exactly what they are doing wrong - tricky relationship stuff to say the least, probably a lot like a teacher in a classroom.
Having a 24 hour cam set up for them to tune in when they wanted would probably be an excellent addition to my teaching operation.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)I do think the children's rights should come into it as well.
femmocrat
(28,394 posts)I don't think the children's privacy is an issue as long as the videos are not available to the public.
If the video is used to improve instruction and is limited to teachers and administrators only, there should not be a problem with privacy.
Yooperman
(592 posts)Just because there would be video doesn't mean that every Tom Dick and Harry would have access to it. For me... it would be a great tool for evaluations and for clarifying issues that may arise in the classroom.
YM
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)It's a far cry from when I was in school, but if there are already cameras, I guess this is no different.
femmocrat
(28,394 posts)I know I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I wish I had a video of the kids who misbehave to show their parents at conference time. All those parents who think their kids are angels would be astounded at their little darlings' behavior in the classroom.
I teach with my door open and conduct myself as a professional at all times. The principals are welcome to drop in anytime.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Even for teacher evaluations, the video should be of the children and not the teacher.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)So cameras in his classroom wouldn't have made a huge difference.
But it wouldn't bother me at all to have cameras in my room. I've always taught with my door open. And I have worried many times about false accusations. Many years ago a student falsely accused me and it was a horrible experience. Worked out okay but took many months. Wouldn't wish it on anyone.
demtenjeep
(31,997 posts)I am very much in the camp that it is good.
That way when little Johnny's parents want to know why their angel got written up, there is video proof that no the teacher is not out to get him.
I welcome it
saras
(6,670 posts)Stream it live to the Internet and you have a pretty neutral model. Let the administrators decide whether footage can be viewed or not, and you have virtually guaranteed corruption and abuse.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)A teacher who was presenting at the end of her teacher education program expressed this thought.
One doesn't often see it play out, especially in high school.
And, in some schools, the classroom is four walls filled with nightmares.
Sad.
Rex
(65,616 posts)in the boardroom of every big company that has fucked us over with negligence.
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)It would protect me and the students.
As for concerns it would be misused: For the example above where the teacher was cornered and the student whispered things and she punched him. She could have handled it differently. I didn't realize the immediate reaction to words was physical violence. She could have told him to back off. Loudly. So the camera would pick it up. Then she could point out that it was being recorded, including what he said (he wouldn't know how sensitive the mic was).
Cameras are more reliable that human witnesses.
And I would be fine with the tape being used for evaluation. If teachers are acting differently when a supervisor is in the room then they are doing it wrong anyway.
I think the overall quality of teaching and learning would go up if the teachers and students knew their actions were being recorded. It would also cut down on cheating during tests.