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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTo Disney or not to Disney?
CNN-For many travelers, especially those with children, it's not even a question they ask. They already know the answer. "Yes."
To these visitors, Disney is Mickey Mouse, princesses, magic and fun. It's happy memories of childhood brought back to life in your children, a clean place where the rides are safe and the Disney characters are always happy to pose for pictures with your kids. That's Deb Koma, who visited once as a child and walked back into the Magic Kingdom in the mid-1990s with her young son. "It was so perfect, everybody was so happy, everything was so maintained," said Koma, who now works for the AllEars.net, an unofficial Disney planning and fan site. "You were in a perfect fantasy world. That, and my little boy loved it!
But for other vacationers, Disney inspires a firm "no."
To those travelers, Disney is merely a commercial machine built to sell tickets, overpriced toys and a stereotype of girls as princesses. They may remember visiting Disneyland or Disney World when they were children, but they aren't taking their kids there. That's the Rev. J.C. Mitchell, who will be heading to Orlando, Florida, this year for a work conference but will not be taking his family with him, even though his job will cover most of the costs of his trip. "We do not enjoy Disney," wrote Mitchell, who went to Disney World as a child, via e-mail. "We believe it symbolically represents the excesses of our extremely individualistic society."
What is it about Disney that creates such a strong response from its dedicated fans and foes?
Whether you love or hate or merely tolerate the expansion of what Walt Disney started in 1923, there's no doubting that Disney is popular and its influence is everywhere. All of those theme parks, resorts, cruises, movies, television shows, toys and other Disney businesses earned the company $11.3 billion in the last three months of 2012. More than $3 billion of that money came from Disney cruises and its 11 theme parks and 43 resorts across North America, Europe and Asia. One more park is under construction in Shanghai.
People like Disney. It ranked as the third most well-regarded company--behind only Amazon.com and Apple--in a recent Harris Interactive survey of people's opinions of the most visible companies' reputations. Fortune ranks Disney as the most admired entertainment company and the ninth most admired overall, behind Apple (1), Google (2) and Amazon.com (3).
Still, there is this cultural split. Disney just rubs some people the wrong way. Whatever people think about Disney, it's probably what they're also thinking about American society and its values, said Manchester University sociologist Robert Pettit.
"Disney does such a wonderful job of representing American culture, (fantasy!) they're almost synonymous with America," said Pettit, who teaches a three-week course, "Disney and American Culture," that includes a Disney World site visit. "They are master storytellers, and they have the narrative business down pat."
more at link: http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/22/travel/disney-travel-debate/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn
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graham4anything
(11,464 posts)To not take a kid to disney over politics or political reason, is penalizing the child, especially if their friends go.
Assuming, and this person said he can afford it, one has the money and is somewhat near the area, or can travel to it, to take the kids to say 6 Flags or a state fair is doing the exact same thing, so that would be hypocritical.
I would say an adult who goes with only other adults can decide politically what they do or don't want.
but don't penalize the kids over something that is far over their head.
I didn't know Apple.Google or Amazon had outdoor entertainment.
Disney is outdoors.
no texts needed, no phones, no computers.
Just imagination.
And leave the cell phones/computers in the hotel.
Imagine a day of family entertainment where there is no phone or computer.
How retro!
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)but maybe the newer ones are more empowering to girls. I have no idea.
the old ones are just teaching girls to be passive and for guys to come to our rescue.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Not saying there isn't one, but this charge is a bit silly.
In any case, I work with kids for a living. We travel every week, going from festival to fair, doing high end fantasy makeup for kids and adults. We work very hard to provide a level of service and quality that they have never seen before. The thing that I enjoy the most about my job is bringing a bit of magic into people's lives. There is nothing like it. And there is little I hate more than parents who, in a hundred different ways, seemingly do their best to stiffle this and suck the fun out of everything.
Everything doesn't have to be about politics or liberation or anything else. We are only on this planet for a short time and this is all we have. Enjoy it! LIVE! Never miss out on a chance to add a little magic and wonder into every day. Here's a couple little PRINCESSES we did last year, striking some glam poses for their parents and having FUN.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)These stories help imprint these stupid roles on kids. Later crap like Twilight reinforces the waiting for a guy in order to start living myth.
You hear guys talking - even here- about how society NEEDS and EXPECTS them to be "white nights" about women who expect to be treated as"princesses" and have everything done for them. It comes from somewhere, and Disney was or is one of those places.
Like I said, I hope the newer stories are better. No idea about that.
And for me anyway, it has little or nothing to do with the makeup thing. I think it's always awesome to do creative stuff with kids and give them new outlets for expression. It sounds like you have a really fun job! Good for you!
What did you decide about the second cat? I noticed you got so much conflicting info that I had to wonder, LOL.
Peter cotton
(380 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)
FSogol
(47,623 posts)etc, there is a contingent on DU that lives to bash it.
Disney is a fun place to go visit and run around with the kids or your friends. While the Disney corp has its problems like most modern corps, Walt Disney was a forward thinking man who encouraged childhood fun. He turned worthless property into millions of jobs and cartoons of a mouse into a multimedia empire.
Ignore the malcontents and naysayers on DU and keep having fun.
Me and the ex husband took the boys to Disney Land when they were 5. We had a wonderful time and I was just as excited as they were. I got to 'see' things through their eyes. Pure unadulterated joy and fun. It is one of my dearest, fondest memories.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)You know what struck me the most when I saw it for the first time? The guys had shirts and ties on and the girls had skirts and nice shoes. Not just those in my family, but EVERYONE was dressed like that.
My how things have changed over the years...
lapislzi
(5,762 posts)I know I'm being played by the Disney myths. But, I can suspend my disbelief for a proscribed period and just enjoy it for what it is. What it isn't, is real life.
I know plenty of people who abhor Disney and its commercialism, and I respect that. Sometimes I just want to set that agenda aside for a little while and not think.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)and that's because I can't think of a place I'd rather not go to. LOL. Ironically- I loved the movies growing up, ha ha. The animation is beautiful.
Peter cotton
(380 posts)Snow White (Snow White): 1. Classic Disney "Some Day My Prince Will Come" wimp.
Cinderella (Cinderella): 2. A bit more assertive, but in the end it's up to some talking mice to save the day.
Aurora (Sleeping Beauty): 1. Does nothing but stand around (and sleep a lot) while Prince Philip does all the work.
Ariel (The Little Mermaid): 4. Stands up to her Dad and takes charge of her life. Only loses 1 point for not taking out the villain(ess) in the end.
Belle (Beauty and the Beast): 3. Not a simp, but not exactly take-charge either.
Jasmine ( Aladdin): 5. This girls knows what she wants, and goes for it. Only reason she doesn't defeat the villain is she's not the main character.
Pocahontas (Pocahontas): 5. As in-your-face assertive as the come. Yeah, I'm not a fan of this one.
Mulan (Mulan): 5. Heck, give her a 6. The whole point of her character is that she's breaking out of traditional gender roles. And, unlike Pocahontas, she's in a decent film.
Tiana (The Princess and the Frog): 4. Wants to open a restaurant, and won't let anything get in her way, not even being turned into an amphibian.
Rapunzel (Tangled): 5. Breaking free of her step-mother's control is the whole point.
Marida (Brave): again, taking control of her own destiny is the raison d'etre of the character.
Anna (Frozen): Not yet released, but I see a trend here...
Peter cotton
(380 posts)And there's not a lot I can do about that...
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)
tblue
(16,350 posts)It's about Walt Disney's technological genius, vision, and triumphs. He didn't start out just trying to make a buck on the cheap. He was a dedicated cartoon artist who struck gold with his creations and by constantly pushing the technological envelope, adding sound effects and designing the multi-plane camera, for instance. The Steve Jobs of his time.
The Disney Company, especially now, is a huge conglomerate, with all that entails, but still puts out a great product for the most part. I love Mulan the most!
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)It's true though, it is just a bunch of fake crap designed to sell.
Personally, I'd probably take my kids there, or some other themepark, maybe just once.. and save other vacations for seeing some true natural wonders or the like.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)Because the people want it. I remember as a kid wanting a mickey balloon. Even though by the next day, one ear was small and the other dwindling, it's all part of the fun. Disney didn't start out that way, he wanted adults to enjoy being with their kids. So they themselves can be a kid again sort of. The stuff we buy is what the people want. Nobody's holding a gun to your head to buy their stuff. There are other weapons that work just as well. A crying 4 year old is one. 
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)Doesn't change the fact of the matter.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)But we live on the West coast and Disney Land/Universal Studios in California doesn't have a Harry Potter theme park. We certianly can't afford to fly across the country. I hope we get to go some day.
catchnrelease
(2,151 posts)I'd love to see the Harry Potter park, but it's unlikely we'd go to Florida. There are plans to build an HP park at Universal Studios in CA, so we do have a chance in the future! (Looks like it wouldn't be before 2016)
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec/06/news/la-trb-wizarding-world-harry-potter-universal-studios-12201106
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)
d_r
(6,908 posts)it isnt really a thyeme park it is one part of a theme park called islands of adventure that has 5 other lands for things like jurassic park. marvel heros.n and dr. seuss. it honestly probably isnt worth a trip across the country if it the only thing you want to do. it is very cool but not a whole theme park.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)...or buy them any books? Hate to think you were supporting THOSE commercial enterprises.
Libertas1776
(2,888 posts)its overpriced hype, commercialized crap, filled with people to inhuman excess under the sweltering California/Florida suns.
THAT BEING SAID...you have to take your kid to Disney at least once in their childhood. It's like a right of passage for American children. When i was a little tike, I got to go down to Orlando, and I was so damn excited I fell down and skinned my knee. I loved the place. I still have the little mouse ears that look more like a yarmulke on my big noggin now. As I got older, though, I went again, and the magic was gone. I saw it for its reality. Now you couldn't get me within 1000 miles of the place. But if I ever have some kids of my own, guess what? I'm gonna take em down to Disney at least once, and I'm sure they'll love it, one might even scrape his knee in excitement. And when they're older, they'll come to dislike it too, but if they have kids, they'll teleport (wishful thinking 
) the whole clan down there like their forefathers did. Thus is the circle of life.
GoneOffShore
(18,021 posts)And he was a great fan of Walt:
"Why do you want to go someplace that's not real? You want fantasy? We've got books. I'll take you to any museum, factory, historical site or natural wonder. But we're not going to Disneyland."
I got over it and I've never been. I don't feel it's a loss.
And if I'd had kids, I wouldn't be taking them to Disney - in any shape or form. It's not a "rite of passage" it's a scam.
Peter cotton
(380 posts)Disney offers a product (theme parks) for a price. If you don't like it, don't purchase it.
How is it a scam?
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)It's supposed to be fantasy. You can read books, but can't you touch a character, or a sword. It's living life, not in some room reading a book. I love Disneyland, always have, always will. They have issues with the gay, but so do a lot of businesses I use, and don't even know it. But Disney are coming around.
demwing
(16,916 posts)and there were some very interesting technologies at work all around the park--engineering marvels everywhere.
Bake
(21,977 posts)We took our kids there 20 years or so ago. The Mouse was greedy then. I'm sure it's only gotten worse.
Bake
Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)And even if you don't... you should at least be able to appreciate the masterful showmanship of it.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)The cleanliness of the parks is amazing. A kid spills popcorn somewhere, within 10 minutes it's all been cleaned up. The inventiveness in the rides is incredible. Every single nook and cranny of every park has been thought through and themed.
And I love the restaurants. An excellent variety of top quality food for adults, but with casual dress and they all have children's menus to keep my kids happy.
Peter cotton
(380 posts)Three meals a day pre-paid...order any appetizer, entree, and dessert on the menu (although a few of the most expensive restaurants count as 2 meals).
I was astonished I only gained 3 pounds in a week, but I did a lot of walking!
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)I'll never forget how blown away I was by "Great Moments with Lincoln", the Tiki Room, and The Carousel of Progress...
I do know this: Each and EVERY night after the park closes, EVERY burned out bulb in the entire park is replaced. Above the Main Street Firehouse is Walt Disney's private apartment and there's a light in the right side window that NEVER goes out. And I've always heard but cannot find independent confirmation that on Main Street after you enter the park, as you walk past all the candy shops, the SCENT of candy is piped through to the sidewalks and comes up from the street as well.
I love Disneyland, have been there probably a hundred times, and will surely go there again.
Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)But my girlfriends parents both did 20+ years with Disney Parks, her father on the construction side and the things they have shown me behind the curtain are even more amazing.
RobinA
(10,478 posts)Went in 2000 because my 90 year old grandmother wanted to go. I'm not a Disney fan, never was even as a kid. Went expecting to hate it. The place is amazing. I couldn't believe anything was that well running in this "everything is shite" day and age. It was a wonder. Liked the Monsanto exhibit, too. So shoot me.
union_maid
(3,502 posts)I wanted to go to Disneyland as a child. We were in NY and Disneyland was in CA and they could not afford that kind of trip. We really couldn't manage a trip to Disneyworld when our kids were growing up. I always felt kind of bad about that, but the one who wanted to go has been there a number of times, starting as a young adult. The other one has been almost everywhere in this country but never wanted to go to any theme parks at all. Nowadays I'd rather hit myself in the head with a blunt object than go to any theme park, let alone the most popular one in the country, but I know people as old as me who still like to go.
egduj
(881 posts)
Raine
(31,179 posts)is wrong. I know what kind of sleazy company they are but I have memories of going there as a kid with my parents. I'll have those fond memories the rest of my life, they mean even more now that my parents are both gone.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)Either-world or -land. All of the others I've gone to are lesser imitations (which is kinda ironic). The only exception to me is if you want to do roller coaster ides, then some of the others are better, or if you have to see a specific thing, like Harry Potter World. I took my kids to that, and it was well done, but small. And it took some of the magic out of the experience to have to walk through a bunch of other sub-lands to get to it. I guess that is how everyone does it.
MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)No matter your age, if you can't find something to enjoy there there's something wrong with you. Everything they do is first class and top notch.
TheBlackAdder
(29,981 posts)My daughter just came back from 5 days at WDW and she said there were cockroaches in her All Star Sports room.
A few years back, we were eating at Chef Mickey and there were cockroaches in the Contemporary.
===
I recall, during that prior trip we went to MGM on the park hopper and the park closed early with no indication. When we got there, we were able to take in two rides... The only things that were left open in the park were the souvenir stores and quick food places to sell product.
It's a good place for the kids and family to go,,knowing that while you enjoy their park, they are providing a service to make money off of. You will definitely pay for the visit. With a family of 5, expect to pay around $5K to properly enjoy the park for a week, including gifts, food and theme dinners. YOu have to go there at least one with the family... and when you do, do it right.
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)Disney... especially the princess movies. In fact we are watching one right now.
Good times.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)rides and has a tummy ache from the $17 deep-fried HFCS "snack". Then the veneer wears off and you realize that you've dropped $450 to stand around in a parking lot with brightly colored signs until your back and feet finally give out.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)I'm one of those people that kids & animals just love. I think it is because they can sense that I would never hurt them, but 
When they're sick, tired, deciding to throw a tantrum, I give them back to their parents. Without a huge trust fund, I never could have lived the life I've lived had I bred.
Now parents OTOH, most of them I find tiresome at best. Very few breeders are talented or committed enough to be entrusted with bringing another life into the world.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)And for that you have my utmost respect, even when we disagree.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)What a beige world it would be if we all had the same opinions.
Peter cotton
(380 posts)I've been to Disney World at a moderately busy time of year and managed to go on every ride in the Magic Kingdom in a single day. That includes a couple of meals at sit-down restaurants.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)If you got on all the rides in a single day, it was not moderately busy.
I'm happy that you had a good time, personally, I liked Epcot much better but that's mostly because Disney World was just a roomier copy of Disney Land which I'd been to more times than I can remember.
I'm so old I know what an E-ticket means.
Peter cotton
(380 posts)I also was there at opening and stayed there until closing. You can go on 4 or 5 of the most popular rides in the first hour, working your way form the front to the back of the park.
It was during the Free Dining promotion period, so it was fairly crowded.
I was also there by myself, and I did nothing but go on rides and eat at a couple of nice restaurants. That sort of day may not be possible for someone dragging around a couple of young ones, granted...but it's still possible to get on more than a couple of rides in 6 hours if one uses the Fastpass system and moves around a little efficiently!
I'm so old I know what an E-ticket means.
I remember E-tickets from going to Disneyland in the '70's!
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Then you can burn through 4 or 5 rides in the first hour or so. Then get fastpasses for rides that you haven't done yet, and take your time enjoying the less popular attractions.
Peter cotton
(380 posts)
William769
(59,147 posts)
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)I know two grown couples who collect Disney shit and are WAAAAAY into Disney, and if that's your idea of culture, you have a serious problem.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)
okwmember
(345 posts)I was one of those lucky kids with a free pass as a kid and I have been well over 200 times. I will admit W's years were hard as I refused to step into the Hall of Presidents until after Obama was inaugurated. My kids weren't very happy, especially my son born in 2002. So he didn't actually get to see it until he was over 6 1/2.
I think the key to any type of entertainment is understanding what you are being sold. And my family continues to enjoy most things Disney from the parks to the movies. For us its just fun. My daughter loved being a princess as a little girl, but that certainly hasn't stopped her from becoming a smart, self assured young woman.
Peter cotton
(380 posts)That seems a bit much, but to each their own.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)I don't know what people have against entertainment. As humans we need an emotional release especially during hard times. We know times are hard. We see it every day in our pay checks and in the every day struggle to pay for food and mortgage/rent, and medical bills. They went to the movies during the Great Depression and often times the most popular movies were the ones that gave people hope that they would one day be able to feed their children again. All of a sudden we're not allowed to have hope anymore. We're not allowed to take hope from religion and apparently we're not allowed to take hope from entertainment either. If you take hope in anything you are hiding from the reality. Well, the truth is to find the strength to keep fighting, to keep surviving most people need hope. people need to remember what it feels like to smile and laugh and have fun. For some people it has been years since they have had fun or laughed. People do this in many ways. If people don't need to watch a movie every once in a while or go to an amusement park every once in a well then good for them. That's okay with me. But I refuse to believe that just because I go to an amusement park I will turn into some zombie who can't think for myself.
meadowlark5
(2,795 posts)And even then I resisted because I thought it was going to be more of a hassle than it was worth. Boy was a wrong! I would have to say that was one of the funnest family vacations for all of us - the kids, my husband and myself.
My boys were a little older by that time so not into Buzz Lightyear or many of the characters anymore. But the Star Wars ride was fantastic fun for them, being Star Wars fans. The roller coasters. And I was amazed at how clean the place was. Not even stains on the concrete.
Politics never crossed my mind when planning the vacation and it sure wasn't on the mind of my boys. They had a blast and ask often if we can go back again.
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Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)The judge said to Mickey, "You say here that your wife is crazy."
Mickey replied, "No I didn't. I said she is fuckin' Goofy."
Cheers!
mia
(8,480 posts)With my kids in the 70's, with groups of kids in the 80's and 90's.
Then as a middle-aged adult in Orlando for conventions and such - always made time to visit. Enjoyed seeing Cirque de Soleil.
The latest performance:
Newest Reality
(12,712 posts)I like the French philospher, Jean Baudrillard's take on Disneyland:
“Whence the possibility of an ideological analysis of Disneyland (L. Marin did it very well in Utopiques, jeux d'espace [Utopias, play of space]): digest of the American way of life, panegyric of American values, idealized transposition of a contradictory reality. Certainly. But this masks something else and this "ideological" blanket functions as a cover for a simulation of the third order: Disneyland exists in order to hide that it is the "real" country, all of "real" America that is Disneyland (a bit like prisons are there to hide that it is the social in its entirety, in its banal omnipresence, that is carceral). Disneyland is presented as imaginary in order to make us believe that the rest is real, whereas all of Los Angeles and the America that surrounds it are no longer real, but belong to the hyperreal order and to the order of simulation. It is no longer a question of a false representation of reality (ideology) but of concealing the fact that the real is no longer real, and thus of saving the reality principle.”
(by the way, his ideas were inspirations for the Matrix movies: "Welcome to the desert of the real!"