For those who feel racialy superior, know this: there is little to feel superior about.

[Cal33]

How many of us would readily admit that we've practiced genocide against
Native Americans? In 1800 the estimated population of Native Americans
in North America was 20 million. Today, more than 2 centuries later, Native
Americans in North America number less than 5 million. And during these
2 centuries, the population of every other racial and ethnic group has
increased by at least 10 to 20 times.

Guns vs. bows and arrows -- How fair a fight was that? It was sheer
slaughter! The Native Americans were defending their own land, the Europeans
were the aggressors. It was a question of might is right. This, too, is human
nature. Throughout history bigger and stronger nations have always conquered
and colonized weaker and more "primitive" ones. What percentage of our schools teach the truth as it really was?

England had been a colony of ancient Rome for 400 years. Today, northern
Europeans (the English in particular) feel superior to the southern Europeans
(and to everybody else), when it was the Romans and the Greeks who gave them
their written language. Some people have never noticed that all the languages
in Western Europe use the same Roman alphabet, and in Eastern Europe the same Greek alphabet -- with some additions and variations. Central and northern Europeans had never developed a written language of their own.

If we looked at history, over the millenia, nations do rise to the top and
fall to the bottom. Each one has its turn at being Numero Uno. Then they
fall and rise again. The position of Numero Uno is a very temporary one!

The Germany of today tells its school children all about what Hitler had done:
how he had connived and succeeded in grabbing power, his wars of aggression,
concentration camps, mass murder, genocide, the likelihood of Hitler himself
having been one-eighth Jewish ..... the whole ugly works ..... no hideous
details spared.

On the other hand, many Americans don't even know that the American Indians
had come close to becoming extinct. During the Frontier Days, local frontier
governments were paying $25 for every Indian scalp (man, woman and child)
brought in. It was barbarous! Nothing to be proud about, is there? Perhaps the Indians learned about scalping from us? Nobody wants to even think about this -- let alone admit anything. We are all too eager to point our finger at the other guy. I think I'll stop right here.

How long will it take us humans to evolve into something less greedy and vicious still remains to be seen -- if we don't self-destruct first, that is.

[d_r]

1. you should read

Jared Diamond "Guns Germs and Steele."

[Cal33]

4. I just looked up google and read a brief synopsis of the book. Sounds

interesting. Thanks for letting us know.

[FarCenter]

2. According to ancient DNA studies, most people descend from agriculturalists

From around 10,000 years ago, agriculture began in certain places. Agriculture supported large populations than hunting and gathering. The large agricultural populations expanded and took over the territories of the hunter gatherers.

For example, most Europeans descend from agriculturalists out of Asia Minor who migrated up the Danube Valley and other pathways into Europe. These neolithic farmers outbred and outcompeted the mesolithic European population.

The same is true for expansions out of rice farming in Asia, the Bantu spread across Africa, potato and maize farmers in Latin America.

If you are alive now, you are racially superior, since if your ancestors hadn't been, you wouldn't be here now.

[Cal33]

6. Doesn't this book imply that present-day people are superior (intellectually?) to

their ancestors from long ago? But then, all of us are descended from
them. The present issue is about individuals who feel superior to
their contemporaries.

[FarCenter]

10. What book? Contemporary people are unlikely to be superior to their ancestors

Their ancestors had to know how to obtain all their food, clothing, shelter, tools, weapons, etc. from locally available materials using a variety of ingenious processes. How many contemporary people can tan leather and make clothing from hides? Now they are barely able to navigate WalMart.

On the other hand, contemporary people are the descendents of the ones who suceeded in having offspring that lived to have offspring of their own. So by definition they are superior.

[dawg]

3. Bows and arrows versus guns.

Actually, the guns weren't nearly as much of an advantage as you would think. They had one shot, and took forever to reload. Meanwhile, a native American warrior could release shot after deadly shot with his bow.

No. The real advantage was our germs. From the very first contact, Europeans brought diseases that devastated native American cultures. By the time of the first actual European settlements on the American mainland, there was nothing left but a post-apocalyptic remnant of the societies that once occupied these lands. Had they remained healthy and intact, they would not have been displaced so easily.

A really good book about this is Charles Mann's 1491.

[Cal33]

7. This is a point I hadn't thought about. I don't know what percentage

of the total number of deaths was brought about by the white man's
diseases, and what percentage by his bullets. When were the repeater
rifle and Sam Colt's six-shooter invented? More than 150 years ago, I
think.

[dawg]

12. I'm from Georgia.

De Soto explored through Georgia in the 1500's. No one knows exactly the path he took, but he left written records of the towns and cities he visited. Those towns vanished.

That was all it took. Just that much exposure.

By the time the first real settlers arrived, those civilizations had collapsed due to disease. The Cherokee, who occupied Northern Georgia until the time of the trail of tears, were just outside immigrants themselves. They came from somewhere far to the North.

It truly is amazing the extent of devastation those germs wrought.

[spin]

13. Disease was a prime factor. ...

TUE DEC 07, 2010 AT 07:26 AM PST
Indians 101: European Diseases and American Indians

There were an estimated 18 million Native Americans living north of Mexico at the beginning of the European invasion. Prior to the arrival of the Europeans, American Indians were remarkably free of serious diseases. People did not often die from diseases. As the European explorers and colonists began to arrive, this changed and the consequences were disastrous for Native American people. The death tolls from the newly introduced European diseases often reached 80-90 percent. Entire groups of people vanished before the tidal wave of disease.

***snip***


The diseases brought to this continent by the Europeans included bubonic plague, chicken pox, pneumonic plague, cholera, diphtheria, influenza, measles, scarlet fever, smallpox, typhus, tuberculosis, and whooping cough. The diseases introduced in the Americas by the Europeans were crowd diseases: that is, individuals who have once contracted the disease and survived become immune to the disease. In a small population, the disease will become extinct. Measles, for instance, requires a population of about 300,000 to survive. If the population size drops below this threshold, the virus can cause illness and death, but after one epidemic, the virus itself dies out.

Another important factor in the European diseases was the presence of domesticated animals. The source of many of the infections was the domesticated animals which lived in close proximity with the humans.

Overall, hundreds of thousands of Indians died of European diseases during the first two centuries following contact. In terms of death tolls, smallpox killed the greatest number of Indians, followed by measles, influenza, and bubonic plague.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/12/07/926451/-Indians-101-European-Diseases-and-American-Indians

Guns and Bows and Arrows: What if the Continental Army Had Taken Ben Franklin's Suggestion?

In February 1776, Benjamin Franklin sent a letter to General Charles Lee, expressing his wish that "pikes could be introduced" along with "bows and arrows," which, Franklin added, "were good weapons, not wisely laid aside." What if the Continental Congress and the American army had taken up Franklin's suggestion?

Franklin's reasons for recommending the longbow over the musket are difficult to refute in an eighteenth century context. Those reasons were essentially the following:

*The bow was often more accurate.
*A man could shoot four arrows in the time it takes to fire and reload a musket.
*No gunsmoke, thus no problems in field vision.
*An incoming flight of arrows is rather disconcerting to the enemy.
*An arrow stuck to a man essentially immobilizes him, until extracted.
*Bows and arrows are more easily provided than muskets and ammunition.

Given the Continental Army's supply problems, one wonders why Franklin's suggestion wasn't more readily entertained.
http://americanfounding.blogspot.com/2010/05/guns-and-bows-and-arrows-what-if.html

[d_r]

19. and horses

nature left the old world with better domesticated animals than the new world. when the spaniards showed up with horses just a few of them could conquer large groups. that and written language so they could spread the news and tactics faster.

[el_bryanto]

5. Now that I know this, what should I do?

How many people at DU do you think believe themselves to be "racialy superior?"

Bryant

[Cal33]

9. I wish I knew. I'd guess the percentage would be considerably higher

among the Right-Wing extremists who are lurking here.

[cali]

8. Uh, anyone of any race who feels racially superior is a fucking moron. duh.

It's an accident of birth. That's it.

And your op about how evil white people are, sucks. Sorry.

[Cal33]

14. Well, I've written only about the white man just to bring out

a point. And it has been the white man's turn to feel and act
superior the past 5 centuries, beginning with Spain and Portugal.
Prior to that, China had been Numero Uno for about 1,500 years.
Yes, longer than the Roman Empire of 1,000 years.

There's a huge tome written by a professor from Cambridge Univ.,
England, who had spent about a dozen years in China, from the
1930s and on, until after World War II. His mission was to study the discoveries made by ancient Chinese scientists, what heights China had reached in other fields, and how come a nation that had been Number One
for so long could have fallen so low. (Example 1: About 1,000 years ago,
an engineer in China had invented an airplane that actually did fly.
He made a demonstration of it to the emperor. The emperor said
that it was obviously a dangerous invention and had the man
executed! Example 2: There are bridges made over 2,000 years
ago that are still in use today -- with maintenance jobs, of course).

China was not always the one huge country it is today. The many
smaller countries it was made up of, the countless wars among
them, the treatment of the defeated nations ... etc ... very much
like what the Europeans nations of the past 5 centuries had been
doing. Bigger and stronger nations have always made war on and
colonized smaller and weaker ones. This is true of all humans,
regardless of race.

The author's own opinion of how China had fallen so low was that
the Chinese had been on top for so long, that they thought of
themselves as being superior to everyone else. No one could ever
come close to achieving what they had achieved. So, they stopped
trying. That, in his opinion, was their big mistake. When people
stop trying and begin to drift about aimlessly, they degenerate, and
others will surpass them.

I've read this some time ago. I'll look up Google for the author who
wrote the book about this professor from Cambridge Univ.

The fact remains that our state of science and technology today has
reached such a point that another large scale war could very well bring
the few survivors back to the stone age level.

When will we learn to become less greedy? Death and destruction
await us, if we don't change.

[cali]

15. I absolutely stand by what I wrote.

and I find posts like yours just full of it. And it's not even historically accurate. What about the Japanese, for instance?

[Cal33]

18. Kublai Khan, the grandson of Genghis Khan tried to conquer Japan

back in the 13th century. He had thousands of ships built, there
was a great storm at sea. Japan was spared. Surely you've heard of
the Japanese phrase "Kamikaze?" -- The divine wind?

By the 20the century, it was the other way around. Japan was invading
China, and China was the Sick Man of Asia.

[Cal33]

20. The book I read "The Man Who Loved China" was written by

Simon Winchester:

The Man Who Loved China: The Fantastic Story of the Eccentric Scientist Who Unlocked the Mysteries of the Middle Kingdom (P.S.) [Paperback]
Simon Winchester (Author)
4.0 out of 5 stars See all reviews (104 customer reviews)

The scientist from Cambridge Univ. Winchester wrote about was Joseph Needham. There's quite a long article about Needham in Wikipedia.

[whatchamacallit]

11. With every burn the sun reminds me I'm racially inferior n/t

[Cal33]

17. These are the values of some people. You are free to believe

them or not. It's your choice.

[Nye Bevan]

16. I would put it another way. To those who feel racially superior, I would say "fuck you" (nt)