So President Obama kind of sucks, Huh?

[Bennyboy]

Not a word about the tax avoiders. No, compromise right from the get go. Lets cut SS and Medicare.

Don't even mention the Monsanto provision, just sign the thing and then shut up.

I am dead sure how DOJ will go after Colorado in regards to cannabis and he has been a huge let down on that issue.

keystone? You all know how that is going to go as well.

Too much to list really.

Kudos to him for NOT starting another war though, that at least gives him an edge over his predecessor.

[Enrique]

1. the Democrats are the ones that do the compromising

the GOP just gets gifts from our side for free.

[hfojvt]

2. you are being ridiculous. He's the most progressive President

in this whole millenium

At least if you don't count the 19 days when Clinton was still President.

[TM99]

7. Sure, if you all you care about is the single issue

of gay rights and marriage.

Don't get me wrong. Those are terrific, and I look forward to the day when I can attend my sisters wedding to her partner. But even there, he had to 'evolve'.

Obama has hardly proven himself to be the great 'progressive' everyone has hoped for.

Keystone?
Gitmo?
Continued war in Afghanistan?
Drones?
Monsanto?
Chained CPI?
Bank bailouts and no criminal charges?
War on marijuana?
Bush tax cut extensions?
Sequester?
Revolving corporate door into government?

I am sure others can add to the list.

[fredamae]

28. NDAA, ReAuthorizing Pat Act, Transparency

That was all done with Bi-Partisan help in both Senate and House.....
It wasn't "Just HOPE" he promised-We all heard to varying degrees exactly what we Wanted to hear because we were So Weary of BushCo.....
Sometimes it's what you Don't hear that says it all.

[TM99]

31. So you are agreeing or disagreeing with me?

Yes, he promised 'hope and change' and yes, millions believed it. I was not one of them. I did not vote for him in 2008. He was the only possible choice in 2012.

I saw what he was. When I hear that he is the most 'progressive' and most 'awesomess' President ever, I just want to cry.

[fredamae]

32. I did vote for him twice

but I would Not have either time, frankly if we'd had Other choices....
I want change. I don't want any more bushes, 3rd way clintons et al.

Change at this juncture means a Whole lot of people are gonna need to turn off MSM, research voting records and watch what "they" all do, not what they say. We need to get Our choice up there--but it's likely already too late for 2016...These things take time.
I agree, but I never believed he was really progressive--he appeared to be the least harmful to We, the People he so eloquently talked about in his Inaug Speech, of the choices we had in both elections.

[TM99]

41. We agree completely.

Yes, he was the lesser of two evils.

In 2008, I sat out the election. I was a Republican and might have voted for McCain but after he chose Palin, it was impossible to ever respect him or the party again. In 2012, I could not vote for Romney, and I was willing to give Obama a chance. After all, with no election in the future, all of the 'promises of progressiveness' that so many here claim he will fulfill might have had a chance. Yes, the Tea Party (I can no longer call them Republicans as that party is dead and buried!) is stubborn and fights him every step of the way. However, he doesn't fight back. He seeks that Neo-Liberal post-partisan 'Grand Bargain'. It is apparent that it is business as usual for the two wings of the singular corporate party beholden not to the 99% of Americans but rather that 1% that wants to own us and rule us all.

I agree about 2016. It will take time now for any significant change. But will 'we the people' survive the current attacks to our financial presents and futures before that change can manifest?

That I do not know.

[fredamae]

45. It's a Bi-Partisan Trip

we've been on for Decades, imo-and some were very aware-I did not believe them---then.

When one connects the dots---looks at actual Votes in following up after a "hot issue" has been voted on? It's a bit of a suprise, if you erase the "rhetoric" (shall we say) from MSM VS reality.
I've watched my own senator completely disagree with the direction of any given issue---then vote to pass (or defeat)! WTF??
I've asked Why? Please explain the apparent conflict? I Never get any response.

I've never been Republican. I've been loyal to the Dem party for more than 50 years. 4 decades ago, my "position" on issues earned me an accusation of being "too far to the right" by many Dems.
Today? According to "some elitist dems" I am a "whining, retarded lefty"---lol I didn't change--my party did.

I at different times, gave full support for PBO. Today, I still recognize the extraordinary GOP Obstruction that hurts us all-hes faced with--but his solution is to capitulate? To be pulled further into the "rights dillusions" of Randian/Corporatist Governance? Hell No.
Personally--I would have forced the GOP's hand the very First time they "took our economy hostage" and put an end to this crap once and for all. I believe many folks would agree. I believe that's what True Old School Dems do.
Make no mistake. There are Great Progressive Democrats in office.
There's a few in the Senate and a few in the House--but they are out-ranked, out-numbered and out-financed.
They don't get much time on the "tv machine" and they've tried very Hard to Wake us up--to rally us.....but..........it is a very slow moving train.

I am very alarmed about whats happening. It doesn't matter the political party "we" all belong to--because the "Screwing of America"? It doesn't check first, your Political Registration. I believe most of us want the Same things--How we get there? Might be Our biggest problem If we were able to erase the Media's Divisive BS, which sadly, (imho) drives our conversations.

But one thing I Know for certain? Just blindly voting a straight Dem ticket or a straight GOP ticket is a bad idea---that mentality helped them steer us where we are today. Not every Dem/GOP candidate Is the Best Choice. We have to assume some responsibility for our own destiny here, for it is we who voted/or didn't, it is we who fail to vet our candidates and it is we, who are too willing to "settle" for what we get with a prayer and a hope.

Found this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022624524

[TM99]

68. I definitely agree with what you share here.

I voted Republican from the time I could register which was almost 30 years ago. Interestingly enough, my positions on many issues were met with accusations from the GOPers that I was 'too far to the left'. I was actually accused by classmates in my M.B.A. program 13 years ago of being a damned socialist Democrat because how could I possibly have been a Republican and not have LOVED GW Bush.

You rightfully lament the dearth of Progressives still left in the Democratic party willing to protect things that all Americans agree upon regardless of party - due process, education, social security, medicare, and civil rights. I had to leave the Republican party because of the utter lack of sane conservatives who wanted to protect the same things.

My parents were Southern Republicans in the 50's and 60's. Many here forget that the Southern Strategy of Nixon targeted the Dixiecrats and racists Democrats of the South and converted them to the new GOP of the last 40 years. My parents - both college professors - married in the South where my multi-racial father grew up. My mother was a 2nd generation immigrant from New York. Both were very active in the civil rights movement and today are big supporters of marriage rights for all. They are still Republicans those their party also moved so far right that they appear to be moderate slightly-to-the-right Democrats.

Bipartisanship among the politicians today is theater. They are already on the same side - corporate money! But the theater they play out with the MSM's assistance has most of the population separated into rival teams. So many buy the bullshit. One side holds the majority and a few tokens are given to them that in the long run really doesn't change anything. Then the other side gets the same. For the last 13 years it was Bush and now Obama. Who's next? Hillary? Or is it a Republican's turn now?

Today I am a registered Independent. I voted for Obama in 2012. I do not know who I will vote for in 2016. I also don't know who will get my votes in 2014. If Democrats want to regain the House and hold the Senate they better do more to corral Obama and his desire for the 'grand deal'. If he fucks Americans by messing with Soc Sec (which every intelligent person knows is not a part of the deficit!), then he, and he alone, is responsible for losses in 2014. He was in 2010 as well but few true believers here want to here that. In that regards they are no different than the Bush believers from 8 years ago. Sad really sad.

Nice chatting with you.

[fredamae]

71. More people need to

have the conversation we just did.

It isn't about which party anymore-We must recognize the act of "coming together en masse", walking away from the messed up, mind fkg MSM bs and sitting down together over a "pot of coffee" is going to solve a Lot of conflicts over issues, we never really had.

We, the People can and will decide where "we" are going to go---

The Fourth Estate is Dead-It once was a valuable tool For "the people"--today it is the "poisoned well" we All drink from as we all joyfully accuse the "other side" of gulping the koolaide, just as we are "msm trained" to believe.
Once we recognize that? Take appropriate action? We will succeed without their continued interferences, imo.

It was great chatting with you as well. Have a great day.

[One of the 99]

50. That's the problem he was never the great progressive that everyone hoped for

He was always a moderate. Too many on the left just projected their own views and agenda on him because he was the anti-Hillary and never really listened to what he was saying.

[TM99]

54. He is not a moderate. He is center-right.

He had a hell of a marketing team and yes the MSM and his team sold the Democratic party members on the hope and change of a progressive.

I did not vote for him in 2008. I saw him for what he was. I voted for him in 2012 because the alternative was even worst. I just hoped he wouldn't be arrogant enough to touch the third rail. But he apparently is, and I am watching all of our futures gambled on a legacy and used as a chip in his poker hand with worst assholes than himself.

One corporate party with two faces is all.

[YoungDemCA]

9. That's a low bar...

Given, you know...Dubya.

[datasuspect]

12. i can't tell if you are on drugs or not

i'm thinking my sarcometer need calibrating.

[xiamiam]

13. bs...and you know it

[hfojvt]

16. I never agreed with them

but some claimed that "this whole millenium" goes from Jan. 1, 2001 until December 31, 3000.

[rhett o rick]

23. So you are willing to settle for "most progressive"? Tell that crap to those living in their cars,

on unemployment, etc. The meme, "at least he's better than Bush", is pathetic. Then of course there's the meme, "It's not his fault." or "he is totally helpless". Or "he only appoints corporatists because, er, because, ..." Help me out. Cant think of an excuse.

And when we really get desperate, "he has a nice family and a nice smile". Seniors can always learn to live with less.

[hfojvt]

33. what I am willing to do

is to tell a cheap joke that many people are too angry to laugh at.

Ah well, I tried.

But then again, it really isn't funny - at all.


Still, a bitter laugh might help. At least it is better than banging your head on a brick wall, or even yelling at the TV.

I have felt betrayed by this President since he punted on the Bush tax cuts back in 2010 and this after I spent two years defending him http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/138

But I seem to be almost alone in this DU community for caring about taxes, and then there was the requirement to keep silent during the campaign.

And right after the election, everybody was all happy and cheering, Hurrah, we won! While I was engaging in the futile activity of trying to warn about the coming betrayal with the Bush tax cuts http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1777348

So yeah, my "he's the most progressive President" ... (wait for it) "of this whole millenium"

Was supposed to be funny, because it is an absurd and inflated way of saying "he's more progressive than George W. Bush" which really isn't that hard since every President in the history of this country has been more progressive than George W. Bush.

So I think the statement "he's the most progressive President of this millenium" is so absurd that it should be obviously hilarious.

Maybe on any other day besides today.

[rhett o rick]

40. Sorry, I have a chip on my shoulder and this is twice I missed the sarcasm.

[MNBrewer]

69. I see what you did there

[KG]

3. still plenty of time to get some war on.

[tblue]

26. Another war and these become the good old days

Oh my freaking gosh. This crew in Washington knows NO bounds.

[Zoeisright]

4. No. Not at all.

Sheesh.

[sharp_stick]

5. I hesitate to produce a response to this

simply because it's such a fucking pathetic repost of about a thousand other posts today but what the fuck here's a kick for a really pathetic repost.

[HERVEPA]

6. Well, he and his family are photogenic

[Nite Owl]

8. It's all so sad and painful

Your last point:

Kudos to him for NOT starting another war though, that at least gives him an edge over his predecessor.


He still has time!

[Bennyboy]

24. I forgot the "Yet"

How many contractors are in iraq and Afghansitan? More than the US troop number I bet.

too big to fail, no Justice is negotiating with Skilling to let him out of prison early.

[Buzz Clik]

10. Nice list. It is too bad Obama never did one good thing in his administration. Friggin' teabagger.

I also like your look into the crystal ball about Keystone XL.

[Cracklin Charlie]

11. That crystal ball has put in a lot of overtime under President Obama.

Time to retire.

[Buzz Clik]

14. Indeed. It needs a nice, safe, warm, moist place. Someplace where the sun don't shine.

[Marr]

42. You don't need a crystal ball to know that he'll approve Keystone.

Care to make a bet on it? I mean, if it's really up in the air.

[Buzz Clik]

43. You'll give me 10:1 odds, right? So, yeah. I'll bet $50, you put up $500.

According to you, I've already lost.

[Generic Other]

55. I am not a gambler so can someone answer my dumb question?

Could you explain why one person bets $500 and the other so much less? Is it because the guy who bets $500 thinks his bet is a sure thing? How much money does the 50 dollar bet payout? What about the $500? Sorry for being so ignorant, but I am genuinely curious (in case I wanna make a bet -- haha).

[Marr]

57. Because both parties understand that one outcome is ten times more likely.

You can bet that the Lakers will win the next World Series if you like, and I'd give you 100,000,000:1 odds. Because we both understand that it's right next door to impossible.

[Marr]

56. Now why would you ask for 10:1 odds?

I thought this was something unpredictable. No?

[Buzz Clik]

58. Oh. So you aren't so sure that Obama will sign and you are not willing to back up your bet.

Got it.

[Marr]

60. Ten times more certain than you are that he won't, apparently.

I don't claim to be a fortune teller-- anything is possible.

I actually find your 10:1 odds quite reasonable, because as I said, I think it's a near certainty that he'll approve it. I'm just surprised to hear that you admit the odds are such. Kind of undermines your point-- you know?

[Buzz Clik]

61. Okay, then it's a bet? (You seem to be playing both sides of the fence)

I'm in on this bet: 10:1 odds as I stated above

[Marr]

63. *I'm* playing both sides of the fence? Excuse me?

You're the one demanding 10:1 odds for something you claim is completely up in the air.

I'll take your bet *if* you will admit that it's far more likely he'll sign it than not. I don't see why I should give you the odds if you deny them yourself.

[Buzz Clik]

64. I don't think you understand this whole betting thing.

You say you are absolutely certain that Obama will sign. I'm not certain he will or won't, but I'll put up $50 to your $500. Are you in or out?

I'll take your bet *if* you will admit that it's far more likely he'll sign it than not. I don't see why I should give you the odds if you deny them yourself.

This is not a moral debate, it's a bet. Are you in or out? Are you certain he will sign or not?

[Marr]

65. I understand it perfectly well, thanks-- and again:

I don't see why I should give you 10:1 odds on a thing you insist is a coin toss. Do you think it's ten times more likely that he'll sign it or not?

But you know what? Fine-- you want to play both sides, I think that's pretty weak, myself, but fine. But let's make it $20. I don't have a $500 to blow.

[OKNancy]

15. you can cross one off your list. He won't cut SS or Medicare

never had any intention to do so. As long as he asks the Republicans to include tax increases, he knows ( and readers here should know) the Republicans will reject* his proposals.

If ever he proposes cuts without tax increases or in a stand-alone bill, then the hand-wringers and haters can feel justified to keep bashing the President.

* this has already happened this morning

[dawg]

18. Then why propose it in the first place.

So Republicans can campaign against Democrats with it in 2014?

[OKNancy]

20. no, so he can say to the Repubs and the non-left populace

" I was willing to do something unpopular", but the Republicans won't.

Do you really think that Obama thought the Republicans would go for the tax cuts in his proposed budget. I sure didn't.
Never had a worry about it, and I'm on Social Security.

[bvar22]

22. Vote Republican 2014!!!

[font size=4]The Party that SAVED Social Security from the Obama cuts!!![/font]

Are you ready for that?
because it is coming!

[tridim]

27. Vote Democratic 2014

The Party that actually does their job.

The Republicans want SS axed and privatized. You really don't know that? Wow.

[dawg]

30. He knows that, but ...

about 3 million swing voters will not.

[bvar22]

34. I believe that 3 Million is a radical Low Ball estimate.

[dawg]

35. Maybe so, but half a million is enough to slaughter us in the Congressional elections of 2014.

Tell the Democrats to keep the government out of my Social Security!

[bvar22]

39. Who could have EVER predicted that in 2013,

...we would be having to fight with the Democratic Party Leadership to protect OUR Social Security?

We HAVE fallen down the Rabbit Hole.
UP is DOWN.
Ignorance is Strength.
The Republican Party is preventing the Democratic Party Leadership from cutting Social Security!

[bobduca]

49. Glenn Greenwald Did

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/07/obama-progressives-left-entitlements

[MNBrewer]

70. Certain segments of DU "threw him under the bus"

for his heresies.

I still admire him greatly.

[dawg]

29. In other words, the Republicans stick by their principles no matter what ...

we, on the other hand, are more .... flexible.

[cthulu2016]

19. If this defense is true he is the stupidest person alive

I respect the President too much to think he is a destructive child playing Russian Roulette, which he would be in your scenario.

He wants to cut SS because he thinks it is the right thing to do.

He's wrong, but being wrong is a lot better than being an irresponsible dim-wit who would propose awful things, thereby making them likelier to happen in the future, as part of a game.

[fredamae]

62. What happens when the GOP

accepts his offer? Then what? I don't believe for one minute at this juncture he would allow himself to be put in the untenable position of putting something so outrageous out there if he were Not willing to Do it.

What would he say? Haha-Just kidding--I just wanted to draw you (gop) out to show America how bad you really are?
Seriously?

[woo me with science]

17. This isn't about Obama.

That is what the one percent want us to talk about. They want to stir up defensive circling of Blue wagons,

Obama is temporary. This isn't about any single corporate-backed politician. It is about a monied elite purchasing into our government and using it to build a system that will protect and grow their wealth/power at our expense, long after Obama leaves office.

Ignore the bids to turn this discussion into a distracting flame war about one man. I am moving to threads with a more useful focus now.

[deutsey]

21. +1

Well said.

[Glitterati]

25. THIS version doesn't. Too bad we're on v2.0

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="

?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Lady Freedom Returns]

36. Obama is between a rock and a hard place. And it is ALL our fault!

We the People ended up shuting up after the election. Those that support Keystone, keeping Gitmo open, the Drone project, Monsanto, Chained CPI, even the Bush tax cut extensions are screaming. They have the ears of congress and President Obama has to play ball with them if he wants to try to do anything.

Why? We have stopped showing support. We have went quiet.

We have stopped showing support in mass for many things we believe in. There are still a few brave souls out there trying to keep the noise up, but they are drowned by the other side. Many people just thought that the work ended when the election was over. Well guess what, it wasn't/ not over. We have to keep our voices hear before, during, and AFTER the elections. We must make them heard all the way down to our own city halls.

If you really want to say someone "kind of sucks", many just need to look in a mirror.

[Carolina]

48. We haven't shut up,

we have been shut out, protests have been quashed and the PTB in Congress do not care what say in our phone calls or write them in letters, faxes or emails.

[Carolina]

52. And another thing...

It's not our fault.

Democratic Senators allowed the selection of 2000. They were mute. Not a single individaul showed a profile in courage and stood with the Congressional Black Caucus to contest the selection.

Then, once the dumber Bush was in office, many Dems voted for his IWR, his tax cuts, his homeland security measures...

We the people do not suck and the OP is right!

[gordianot]

53. When you want to be a leader you lead, he is being led.

At least Ann Romney did not move into the Whitehouse.

[fredamae]

59. Did "we" go silent? Or

did corp media do It's job in Silencing us in the face of our Objections?

[truedelphi]

73. Please SOMEBODY make it stop.

I get so tired of realizing that even in a supposedly highly educated nation like the USA, we have people who are victims of the Big Lie. Goebbels was right. give people a talking point; repeat it endlessly, and even despite tons of info otherwise, people will keep muttering their talking point. That is the only logical explanation I can come up with when reading this post of yours.

BTW, for what it is worth, here is a fact for you to ponder - on Monsanto, just last year close to one million people sent a petition regarding an aspect of Monsanto's proliferation of Gm foods without labelling. It was sent to Obama's FDA. (Yes, that is right - it is his FDA. He is President. He makes appointments. And all his many appointments to Agriculture Dept and to FDA have involved the promotion of Monsanto Death and Famine Foods Agents like Mike Taylor!)

And what did the officials do with those one million signatures on that petition? Since the petition had been sponsored? (Duh, most petitions are sponsored if they are attempting to get big numbers of people to support them.) The FDA ruled that this petition counted as ONE SIGNATURE.

Furthermore, and I find this shocking, I live in the most populated State in the Union. Yet despite this state having 37 million people, The WH Comments Line shuts down at 2Pm Calif time. It is a volunteer group - so it isn't like O. is saving any money doing this. It is just a slap in the face to people in one of the more truly progressive areas of the nation. That tells me and many more people how much Obama values our input.

Then there was the recent on e full week of protests regarding Keystone XL, and Obama's response to this was to be in Florida playing golf.

I have never experienced any Presidency that treats people like this. And if he had a "R" after his name, as many of us feel he deserves, he'd be friggin hearing about being impeached. But with that nice shiny blue "D" he can continue all the crap he and his appointees are doing to this nation, while we will soon begin to hear that if we want to make a difference, we need to wait for Hillary in 2016!

.
As for me, unless someone who has the intelligence, compassion, out spokenness and awareness of Elizabeth Warren, and unless someone like her gets to run on the Dem ticket in 2016, I will be staying home.

"Chained CPI is just a fancy way of saying
"cut benefits for seniors, the permanently disabled, and orphans."

Our Social Security System is critical to protecting middle class families
and we cannot allow it to be dismantled inch by inch

Sen Eliz Warren

[Liberal_in_LA]

37. no he doesn't

[gulliver]

44. Any problems with Obama and other Dems are probably your fault.

What did you do to defeat Republicans in the last election? Why are you trying to help them now?

[Carolina]

47. apparently you missed the fact that we won the WH and Senate

and would have won the House had it not been for such ridiculously gerrymandered districts. And we won because people did work and id vote... often waiting in long lines to do so!

But the OP is right. WTF did we win when the Dems are such spineless rat bastards?

We don't need Dems... we need PEOPLE like Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson

Obama and Pelosi are worthless

[OwnedByCats]

67. You and some others are under the mistaken

impression that if someone has a problem with democrats that automatically means they side with republicans and they'll vote for them next time around. That is not at all what is happening. You can disagree with your elected officials, that doesn't mean you suddenly support the opposite party.

[Carolina]

46. He sucked the first term,too

I was disgusted by his choice(s) of advisors and cabinet picks on the economy and education, by his empty promises on Gitmo & a public option, by his obsessive concessions to those who vowed to see him be a one-termer, by his rebuff of Howard Dean who initiated the use of the internet and the 50 state strategy which BHO co-opted and which served him so well.

Only reason for voting for him in 2012 was that Rmoney and Lyin Ryan were so much worse.

What a sad state we are are in: a corporate owned police state that quashes everything democratic and historically Democratic... FDR, LBJ are rolling in their graves that an empty suit with a 'Democratic' cloak is the one proposing to undermine the signature legacies of their administrations.

[treestar]

51. No, the Republicans do

We are going to try to take back the house in 2014 so Boner is no longer speaker. That is the problem. Nice try.

[NYC Liberal]

66. Nope, he doesn't. Too many accomplishments to list, really.

I'm sure if I listed some, though, I'd get some sarcastic response. Because we're not supposed to post anything good that Obama has done here.

[jsr]

72. Real Nobel Peace prize winners use drones

They're more accurate.

[Demoiselle]

74. The last time I had a real choice was the PA Democratic Primary in 2008.

I voted for Hilary because I thought she was a better liberal than either her husband or Barack Obama.
From then on I was an Obama supporter by default. Of course, I could be wrong about Hilary. We'll see.

[forestpath]

75. Like a Hoover.

[Demo_Chris]

77. Drop the words "kind of" and you have it. nt