General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRobb
(39,665 posts)I don't think we get to blame them, actually.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)Robb
(39,665 posts)...for the last decade?
We have failed an entire generation, IMO.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)When voters decided that they didn't want to pay for that education, especially if them 'other' people were getting it too.
Frankly our ancestors were not all that educated, but they tried. And they tried to keep up on who was screwing them over. Our present generation seems more likely to accept whatever swill Fox and Rush feed them.
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)had twelve children - nine sons. They were "frontier" people; farmers. At least one of them (probably the ggg-granpa) could, apparently read - and probably would write to some degree.
They named their sons after literary and political figures - "John Milton", "Albert Gallatin", "William Wilson", etc.
They weren't educated, but they were, as you said, informed and aware.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...the elitists (otherwise known as the Top 1%) have always attempted to limit education, especially higher education, to wealthy, privileged people like themselves who could afford it. That's been happening in this country since the very beginning.
KansDem
(28,498 posts)I lived in the L.A. area.
Prior to the vote, I heard one couple swear up and down that if it didn't pass, they would have to move out of California. Well, it passed and the very next thing this couple did was buy a second house in Big Bear Lake. It became their "weekend retreat."
They confused "entitlement" with "need"...
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Well, after it passed those plans were cancelled.
I really wanted to go to school out there, but couldn't afford it. Who knows, I might have even stayed in Cali to live.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)There were a number of scandals involving tax assessors leading up to the proposal of Prop 13.
A great many property owners could also see elderly, long-term property owners being forced out of their homes by ever-increasing property taxes.
Taxes are the price that we pay for civilization (or endless wars in the Middle-East and bonuses for banksters), but many people -- including Democrats -- did not see a correlation between ever increasing property taxes and education. Some genuinely believed that money was being squandered. Some were fearful that they would ultimately lose their homes.
Blanks
(4,835 posts)And the schools that your children went to are abandoned and new schools constructed on the taxpayers dime, it can appear that the school system is squandering tax money.
I don't have any specific instance on mind, but I've seen a lot of abandoned schools and newly constructed schools across the country. It doesn't seem like school districts are always trying to get more bang for their buck.
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)(eg Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education)
So I suppose it's the almost half of Americans who DON'T vote that are doing it right? Is that your point?
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)the generation that was supposed to be looking out for them did.
is this so complicated?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)That, and they consider Liberals to be the enemy.
Here's a gem from the holidays that gives you a glimpse into the culture.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)It cuts both ways.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts).....that's where they talk about the "elitist" Liberals.
When you consider the Rural Base you will see why the Republican Party is always bringing up bestiality as a possibility. Imagine if you spent all of your time schmoozing with the rich in DC and when you went back to your district you held a town hall in a barn.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)but Education is STILL under attack by the Privatizers like Arne Duncan
who was appointed to the cabinet position of Secretary of Education by President Obama in 2009.
And, of course, there is Rahm.
He is destroying Public Education in Chicago.
So WHO do we vote for if we support Quality Public Education?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Hey,...you asked.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)I know,....made me feel like a Paulite....
merrily
(45,251 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)elected office.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)They kept claiming the loss of Michael Dukakis was absolute PROOF the nation had swung to the right. All through the right controlled media we kept hearing the mantra "This is a center/right country" until it was accepted as truth in DC.
It wasn't true then and if anything, this country has become even more liberal but there are still Clintonites to deal with who hold decision making positions.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Progressive Policy Institute, Third Way, New Democrat--all similar to DLC.
As I said, to this day very few liberals make it to a primary.
BTW, the DLC first took that position--this is proof that liberals cannot win-- when Mondale lost to Reagan.
Here's a little irony about Dukakis and the DLC.
"NDN is led and was founded by Simon Rosenberg in 1996 after his split with the Democratic Leadership Council, for which he worked. Before founding NDN, Rosenberg worked as a television news writer and producer and a political strategist for the Michael Dukakis and Bill Clinton presidential campaigns and the Democratic National Committee. NDN has offices in Washington, D.C., New York City, San Francisco, and Miami.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democrat_Network
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)People in power don't give up for being wrong.
Obama has a LOT of liberal members that make up his machine and their victories overshadow the record of failure from the "New Democrats".
merrily
(45,251 posts)Do you mean his campaign people, like Axelrod?
Or his Presidential administration, Cabinet, White House advisors, etc.?
If so, I am not sure which liberal members of either of those you mean, or what victories you mean.
ETA: BTW, I don't think the DLC is rebranding. I think it felt it had accomplished its mission of all but eliminating liberals from positions of power within the party and eliminating most liberal candidates. Besides, I'm guessing Al From wanted to retire. And almost all the other Democratic think tanks are DLC oriented, like Third Way and Progressive Policy Institute.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Those people are the future of the Party as the old guard moves on.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Equivalent to captain rank. Those idealistic liberals will move up within the party shifting the party to the Left.
People like Harold Ford are on their way out.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I really hope that you are correct about the future of the Party.
riverbendviewgal
(4,253 posts)Go to joebageant.com. He died a couple years and grew up in Appalachia among these people, his people. He writes of them and why they vote against their own interests. I had the honor to exchange a few emails with him before he got sick.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)All of his writings are available, for free download, at http://coldtype.net/joe.html
Coldtype has lots of other good free material, poking around the site is rewarding.
riverbendviewgal
(4,253 posts)I loved his writings. Got his books Deer Hunting and Rainbow. He gave me a good understanding of some people I knew at the time.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)What a prolific writer.
BobbyBoring
(1,965 posts)where I was raised. Not Appalachia geographically, but pretty close culturally. Great guy who I was lucky to know.
riverbendviewgal
(4,253 posts)Many places in America could be Appalachia. I am familiar with south eastern Ohio and it is like Appalachia in some parts.. I knew people who came from there. Very sad.
I was thrilled when Joe wrote back to me....We had a lot of things in common.
mountain grammy
(26,644 posts)A 'merican flag hanging off the trailer, a McCain/Palin yard sign, and a large cross on the front yard.
I know this place, I've driven by it all over the country.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)It's a shot at the status quo in general - Entrenched self-serving career politicians who work to perpetuate their own power.
People keep sending the same batch of idiots back to Congress every two years and every six years.
mountain grammy
(26,644 posts)guess we're all slackers, huh slackmaster?
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)...to think highly of their own representatives.
They can't see the forest for the trees.
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)Vice President much less their local reps. Those who bother to vote look for the R or the D next to the name and that's it. Schools perpetuate civic stupidity too. In 13 years (including K) at our local "Blue Ribbon" public school, my daughter never once encountered a teacher who mentioned "current events." Hate to sound like one of those crotchity oldsters, but when I was in school, what was going on in the world was considered important. Today everything is dumbed down and people wander around in a fog.
riverbendviewgal
(4,253 posts)like my NJ bubba brother.
xtraxritical
(3,576 posts)That's why people laugh at Foxworthy and stupid videos like this. Sadly, not funny at all.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)slackmaster
(60,567 posts)erronis
(15,328 posts)But I really think most of us have it very easy compared to prior generations.
We may be more easily distracted and think that "our issues" are overwhelmingly important, but try comparing that to many who have had (and still do) to work 10-14 hours to survive, worry about food/clothing/lodging/safety for children.
Perhaps the pablum of the masses (TV/infinite cable) dulls the senses but I don't think most families really trying to cope are into celebrity news.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)the ever popular, essential rebel flag ...
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)for both parties.
They are already lining up the new corporatists and warmongers for 2016.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)liberal N proud
(60,339 posts)DemoTex
(25,400 posts)xtraxritical
(3,576 posts)DemoTex
(25,400 posts)Since I snapped this photo, they towed the wrecked pickup truck and took down the Redneck flag. But the whole stretch of SC-11 is a blight on the landscape.
dawg
(10,624 posts)No Confederate soldiers from SC ever fought under a Confederate flag with the word "REDNECK" superimposed across the cossed bars. Only the 4th & 6th Mississippi regiments, Peak's brigade from Southern Alabama, and scattered companies of the Army of Northern Georgia, ever used such a flag.
DemoTex
(25,400 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)You get two choices: corporate party A, or corporate party B. Coke or Pepsi. Two parties with the same economic and foreign policy agendas, who have split up social issues so as to give the illusion of choice.
The fact that our elections so regularly come out 50/50 these days is a testament to how phoney our two party system has become. The differences are so nuanced and market-tested that we regularly come down to a few votes difference.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)No truer words spoken.
Our neighbors in Latin America have given us a Blue Print for real "change".
nightscanner59
(802 posts)And pushing that message as long as it doesn't get taken down... like it does sometimes on D.U.
Janecita
(86 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Their pat response, "It's better than under Romney", shows their ignorance. No I take ignorance back. They are just in denial.
Ralph got it wrong when he said both parties are the same. Not true. One party is friendlier on social issues and for some here, that's enough for them.
bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)pam4water
(2,916 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)lpbk2713
(42,766 posts)They'll do it every time.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)behavior of voting is correlated more strongly with higher income. So that picture would be better with a middle class family, two cars in the drive, draining their retirement income accounts as they hope against hope that things are going to turn around, while they vote either D or R.
But that is harder to get across in a cartoon.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)There concerns are much more basic. And they dont see that any politician is going to help them.
colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)Since I'm one of the 77 people who still get a physical newspaper in the morning, I let out a big "Yes!!" and reached for my scissors to clip it out today. The dead solid truth.
merrily
(45,251 posts)One could more correctly say that poor rural voters vote republican. The toon doesn't imply otherwise
merrily
(45,251 posts)I am not sure that the cartoon was, either. Permanent poverty is not only about rural poor.
My impression was that posters were making assumptions, perhaps without even realizing that they were making them. I often try to cut against doing that. I care about the process--or lack theireof-- by which we reach conclusions. And, in my thinking, my post was about the process, more than wbether the assumptions were correct or not.
As to the latter point, I am afraid that I not sure what your graphic says about how poor people voted versus how those above the poverty level voted.