Will anyone on DU henceforth complain when conservatives dance on the grave of a left-winger?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

Whether or not grave dancing is immoral is a reasonable debate to have. My view is that it probably is, but the arguments to the contrary do not strike me as devoid of merit.

But either it is or it isn't. In the past, when conservatives have indulged in it on the death of a liberal, the overwhelming consensus has been that it is; now when it's a conservative who has died the consensus is clearly that it isn't.

"Gravedancing is OK" and "gravedancing is not OK" are both defensible positions, but "gravedancing is OK when it's me doing it, but not when it's someone I disagree with" is hypocrisy of the rankest and most contemptible sort.

If you want to be able to speak out next time a conservative says something disgusting on the event of the death of a liberal, wait for a space before using your favourite zinger about baroness Thatcher. After all, you had decades when she was alive; if it wasn't urgent then then it will wait a little now without spoiling.

Yes, she was a bad prime minister. There's no call to pretend that that was not the case. But don't get more gleeful than that for a while, *unless* you think it's OK for people to dance on the graves of people you admire too - in which case, zing away. But, by past form, not many people on DU do think that.

[hollysmom]

1. they do it all the time - ask me something unusual.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

3. What I'm asking is "do you think it's OK?"

Yes, many right-wingers behave badly in all sorts of ways.

But I think that they should be condemned when they do. And I think that principles should be applied consistently.

[hollysmom]

8. when I am personally ata funeral - I do not say anything to distress the family, but

we have been known to laugh at some of the foibles of the person who passed - we told the Horseradish story at my father's funeral and several drinking jokes at my mothers- they both could take a joke -

but when you are talking about someone famous, it is another story. I am not talking to the family. It would be hypocritical if I heap someone with praise when it is known that I don't like them. But I am not on TV and not writing an article - so do you really care what I post on a message board? It is not getting quoted and posted every where (although one thing I wrote did get posted internationally and twisted to mean the reverse of what I said which required a bunch of explanations to all my message friends who did not see the original post - that's what you get using the same name on multiple boards - still not likely from here). People should say what they feel.

[ZombieHorde]

11. Do spiders taste better when cooked in butter or fruit juice?

I hope that is unusual enough for you.

[cherokeeprogressive]

34. I'd have to saaaaaaay... butter.

Not that I'd ever get my mouth close enough to a spider for there to be a chance it might wind up behind my lips mind you.

As an arachnophobe, I'd have to say your post affected me in the way I'd imagine it would feel if someone touched the contacts of a 9v battery to the inside of my stomach.

[hollysmom]

39. I agree - butter.

[In_The_Wind]

49. Butter is better for a crunchy taste, which I prefer.

[datasuspect]

2. they do it anyway

and more vile shit besides that.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

4. See my response #3 n.t

[datasuspect]

5. it simply doesn't matter to me

i really don't give a fuck what the hell someone is doing unless they are threatening physical violence against me or my family.

words are just words. they mean nothing.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

6. In which case, dance away. I think you're probably in a minority at DU, though. N.T.

[blogslut]

7. Wingnuts say awful things about the living as it is.

She was a horrible person who did horrible things to an entire populace.

This ain't some dreamy prison movie where noble guards are dressing the body of a convicted criminal who served the ultimate penalty. Margaret Thatcher was not charged, tried & convicted. She got away. She did not leave this world "even with the house".

Fuck her.

[Electric Monk]

9. It would be incredibly ego-centric of me to think my opinion mattered to the Anne Coulters

of this world. They see the worst, no matter what.

[tralala]

10. gravedancing is a healthy and natural and beautiful thing

that impotent people do

[cthulu2016]

12. Man... this makes NO SENSE AT ALL

I'll dance on Cheney's grave if I feel like it and I'll be offended by RWers dancing on, say, Barney Frank's grave.

Guess why?

Because Barney Frank and Dick Cheney aren't the same guy.

Whooooooaaa. Mind-blowing, right?

[Still Sensible]

15. This. n/t

[Donald Ian Rankin]

20. Not mind-blowing, just muddle-headed and a tad hypocritical. N.T.

[HiPointDem]

43. Not at all. "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."

You're suggesting there's some equivalency between, say, dancing on the grave of MLK because he led the civil rights movement & dancing on the grave of Thatcher because she impoverished millions.

There's not.

[HiPointDem]

41. +1

[Cleita]

14. Don't they do that anyway?

I guess you haven't been lurking at any of the conservative websites. Hugo Chavez, a left-winger died recently, it wasn't pretty in those websites nor here.

[Marrah_G]

16. offs.............

[MADem]

17. Of course. You perhaps do not understand that this is a team sport.

We cheer our team, and we denigrate theirs.

That's how it works.

This is a discussion board, and sometimes the "discussions" get a bit unseemly. It's not a --forgive the expression--tea party. If there wasn't any difference of opinion, about Democratic politics, about propriety, even about the ever-present "fiddly bits" and how people treat one another, it wouldn't be any fun. People would find another site to get their hectoring drama on.

Trash Thread is on the menu if you don't care for the buffet. And it's delicious!

[cali]

18. you really shouldn't bother with this question

all you'll get is the predictable they're evil and we're good shit.

We have myths to protect and complex issues to reduce to sound bites.

I agree with you, btw.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. if people are factually inaccurate about someone

whether they are dead or alive, i reserve the right to point that out

[LittleBlue]

21. I don't care what they do

I never get upset about things like that.

[ZombieHorde]

22. I won't, unless I am really grumpy and not thinking well that day. nt

[CincyDem]

23. Are you refering to the RW joy dance upon Sen. Kennedy's passing ? That dance ? n/t

[Donald Ian Rankin]

24. No, I'm not. I'm referring to left-wing responses to it. N.T.

[CincyDem]

30. I don't recall the specifics...

...but I think the general response was something like "Those a$$-hats, it's despicable that they rejoice over such a great man's death".

Then we moved on to the next issue and said something like "Those a$$-hats, it's despicable that they....[fill in the blank]"

Common thread. Despicable a$$-hats.

Probably what they say about us, ya think.

[notadmblnd]

25. I don't go to conservative sites and read their gibberish

However, I don't think death is sacred. If you're a M-Fer in life, you're still one in death.

[libodem]

26. Like they did at Paul Wellstone's memorial

They used it as political capital. Jerks.

[arcane1]

27. As long as they are being honest, then go for it. If they make up shit, then they are assholes n/t

[Posteritatis]

28. Perhaps if I considered them morally equivalent, which I usually don't.

I'm generally not much of a gravedancing fan, but Thatcher? She did more damage to Britain than the Luftwaffe ever did. They could save the price of a state funeral by just buying everyone in Scotland a shovel so they could all get together and personally deliver her to the devil.

[southernyankeebelle]

29. Good lord don't you remember when Edward Kennedy died how they were dancing on

his grave? I do agree with you no one should do that. I didn't like it with Kennedy and I sure don't like it with the Iron Lady.

[Jamastiene]

31. It does not matter what I think is "OK" or not when it comes to the behavior of conservatives.

They will do what they want anyhow and tell us it is "family values" and "morality." If they are the arbiters of "morality" and "family values" then that means it is "OK" for me to speak my mind about their dead as well. They sure hold no punches in what they say about our dead. Why the fuck should we kowtow to them? I won't be worried about what they think of my honesty in my opinions of their dead any time soon. Not happening. End of story.

Since when does death make someone immune to criticism anyhow? When the History Channel had documentary #3,000,000 about Hitler and told about all the depraved shit he did, did anyone say, "Tsk, tsk, they shouldn't speak ill of the dead like that." No, because he was a deranged, mass murdering fuckhead. Like clockwork, here on DU, someone is going to lambast me for daring to "speak ill of the dead" for daring to talk about Hitler that way. I just know it. Only on DU would that be considered wrong. Never mind his, at least, 6,000,000 victims who suffered the cruelest possible fates because of his depraved bullshit. I shouldn't "speak ill of the dead" when referring even to Hitler. Right, DU? This place is fucking warped sometimes. Get your heads out of your asses sometimes and think about the victims of the latest dead right wing asshole you are defending. It is time to stop coddling right wing assholes.

[boilerbabe]

32. and *that* is the reason i don't get indignant when the "right" gravedances. i EXPECT it.

and showing that it bothers you plays into their hands.

[sibelian]

33. Yes, because liberal politicians are generally nice people and conservative ones generally aren't.

They wouldn't deserve the "grave dancing". I see no "hypocrisy".

Case closed.

[DLnyc]

37. Yes, good point! And, in particular, Maggie Thatcher was a VILE person!

Liberal politicians don't, in general, spend their whole lives spreading pain, misery and death wherever they go.

If one of them did, and finally died, I would also celebrate. But guess what? They DON'T!

Please spare us from idiotic false equivalencies!

[Bluenorthwest]

35. Just to remind people what we are actually talking about, sans lingo like 'gravedancing'

I present the horror that the OP speaks of:

[L0oniX]

36. I'm in the middle of trying to get over DU members dancing on grand parrents poor people and vets...

"Those decrying the this Chain CPI thing are self-interested folks, hiding behind the elderly, the poor, the disabled and/or veterans"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=297857

[scarletwoman]

38. Morality has not one damn thing to do with it.

Common courtesy dicates that one does not speak ill of the dead around their family and friends. It's not a matter of "morality" or "immorality" - the dead are beyond injury.

However, when it's a public figure - unless you are personally acquainted with the mourners and ensconced among them - your guiding principle ought to be speaking the TRUTH. If the truth is that the deceased public figure wreaked havoc and acted as a destructive force in the world, then it is your duty as a human being to speak the truth about them, lest the sycophants and plutocrats and media whores snatch up the entire narrative and gloss over the evil that was done to your fellow human beings.

Speak the truth, make a noise, do not be silent! Raise a glass and make your celebration loud and public! Let the powers that be know that YOU are not deceived by the praises of those who would consign you to silence and impotence. To grave dance for such a one as Thatcher is an act of pure dissent - you are putting the powerful on notice that you have not been fooled, that you do not acquiesce to their version of reality.

As for the right wing, they lie as a matter of course. They lie about the living, they lie about the dead. If they celebrate the death of one of our own - we STILL know the truth, and the TRUTH is what we must always defend.

sw

[sibelian]

40. Thank you for so eloquently stating what I also firmly believe.

[Paladin]

46. Bravo! Well said. (nt)

[In_The_Wind]

48. Common courtesy has been overlooked by people who should know better.

After 9/11, I stopped watching news shows for many years.
I left my TV off except to watch movies.

I was wrong to express sympathy at the time of Thatcher's death.
So some dislike me because I spoke my feelings about another human being without knowing all the facts. Simply put: They will be missing my support in the future because of their treatment toward me.

It's been a difficult few years for my family ... especially after being ponzied by Bernie Madoff.
We were not rich to begin with. Now, I am trying to put our life back together ... alone. Becoming almost penniless overnight has shattered my poor husband's mind.
So ... Thatcher is the least of my worries, food, shelter, health care that we can ill afford is more important.
My true friends here at DU have become more important to me as the days go by, yet some wish I would be silent ... go away. I will not.
However ... those who wish me ill will are wasting their time.
I am an American Democrat.
A member of the Democratic Underground.
My voice will not be silent.

[Starry Messenger]

42. Sorry your girlfriend died.

[HiPointDem]

44. lol.

[nomorenomore08]

45. Complain? I doubt it. What would be the point?

[bigtree]

47. right winger vs. left winger

no contest; nothing to be gleeful about the death of a left winger.