Biden Directly Confronts NRA and 'Black Helicopter Crowd' as Gun Deal Looms

[Robb]

Go get 'em Joe!!

Not yet a day after President Obama got emotional in Connecticut but refused to name the most powerful arm of "the gun lobby" that is bending back the administration's legislative push, Vice President Joe Biden spared no words in describing the political tactics of the National Rifle Association in a speech to law enforcement officials at the White House Tuesday afternoon.

Biden called out Senators for filibustering a deal as that filibuster talk cooled, but he got loud — at least compared to his boss — when it came to the NRA, whose bizarre commercials and lobbying effort on Capitol Hill the vice president called "campaign of disinformation." It was a new tactic for the Obama administration, with the president continuing to studiously avoided mentioning the letters N, R, and A — even if they are not alone.

A visibly emotional Biden indulged no such circumspection, comparing the most vehement opponents of expanded background checks, which 92% of Americans support, to conspiracy theorists. "The black helicopter crowd is really upset," Biden said, taking on a kind of faux voice in describing fears about background checks — "It's kind of scary, man," he said.

Read More: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/04/biden-nra-black-helicopter-crowd/64051/

[freshwest]

1. Tell 'em, Joe. 'Unworkable federal database?'

Last edited Tue Apr 9, 2013, 09:44 PM - Edit history (1)

Obama’s ‘70 million checks’ per month: Actually, it’s even more than that.

By Alec MacGillis,July 26, 2011

If nothing else, the crisis over the debt ceiling is reminding the country of the astonishing reach of the federal spigot, encapsulated by a figure that President Obama tossed out recently: The government sends out “70 million checks” every month.

That works out to 27 payments per second, day after day — not just to the expected recipients, such as contractors, federal workers and Social Security beneficiaries, but also to those you might not think of, such as the victims of black lung disease and their widows (50,032 checks in June), and pensioners supported by the Railroad Retirement Board (613,912).

Obama used the figure to illustrate the dire consequences if the government fails to raise the debt ceiling by the Aug. 2 deadline. This week, Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner upped the figure to 80 million in making a similar point.

The mind-boggling number challenges a common critique of the federal government as a creaky apparatus where tax dollars are lost in the bureaucratic cracks. From the vantage point of the 70 million or 80 million checks, the government is a finely tuned machine that brings in revenue and disperses it back out across the country...

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2011-07-26/politics/35266839_1_checks-veterans-benefits-social-security

And that was just in 2011. And if one goes to the link, the article is much longer and comprehensive about what is really going out to keep the American people healthy, housed and fed. Ask the people who live on those checks if they show up or not.

If Congress doesn't shut things down or defund a gun registry, that database is working every second of the day. They want chaos, and the American people need to realize that benefits their owners and not Americans. As usual, the NRA and the RWers are lying about everything.

[FSogol]

14. +1. My new mantra: "As usual, the NRA and the RWers are lying about everything."

[sheshe2]

2. Kicked and Recommending!

Go, Mr Vice President!

Thanks, Robb!

[Comrade_McKenzie]

3. Joe minces no words...

[aikoaiko]

4. That's the best he can do?

No wonder something as popular as background checks is being watered down with compromises.

Snarkiness is Joe's favorite rhetorical tool but it doesn't accomplish gun laws being enacted.

[Cha]

5. Joe's doing exponentially a hellava lot better than cheap pot shot

throwers on the internet.

[aikoaiko]

6. In time you will see the error of having Joe Biden lead this effort.

For now let's see if background checks can be improved.

[Robb]

8. Because you want Biden to work with the NRA.

Why, exactly?

[hack89]

10. Because the alternative doesn't appear to be working?

you need gun owner support to get what you want.

[Robb]

11. I know this is unclear in your mind, but most gun owners are not NRA members.

[hack89]

13. I know that very well - I have said it here constantly

Last edited Wed Apr 10, 2013, 10:07 AM - Edit history (1)

but the administration's attempts to sideline the NRA has failed. So what do you intend to do about it? Make a deal with the devil or make no deal at all?

And in light of your post, perhaps you can shed light on why criticism of gun control is frequently attacked as "NRA talking points". Are you suggesting that criticism of gun control may not be motivated by support for the NRA but rather by the concerns of gun owners? If so, perhaps it is time to put away the NRA broadbrush and talk to gun owners as potential collaborators?

[Robb]

40. When you stop defending the NRA, fewer people will accuse you of defending the NRA.

It's pretty simple.

[hack89]

50. When you stop equating any dissent from your agenda with support for the NRA

then perhaps you will have more success. Just a suggestion - something has to change if you want to actually accomplish something.

[patrice]

53. But does it matter whether those other gun owners are NRA or not? They BENEFIT from the NRA & they

have no other collective voice, so they might as well be treated as the NRA is treated, because the only thing that will make them speak for themselves, to propose more effective and equitable solutions, is to experience negative impacts to their gun-ownership caused by the NRA.

These other gun owners are part of what makes the NRA so powerful, whether they are members or not.

[hack89]

56. You need the support of those gun owners to pass "rational" gun control

Last edited Thu Apr 11, 2013, 05:15 AM - Edit history (1)

so make a choice - demonize them or find some common ground.

This is just like presidential elections - the battle is for those critical votes in the middle. If you can't peel away enough gun owners from the NRA then you will fail.

[kurtzapril4]

20. 92% of Americans

support background checks for ALL gun purchases. I assume some of that 92% includes gun owners.

[hack89]

21. Not talking about universal background checks

they are popular and hopefully be passed in some form.

I has referring the rest of the gun control agenda that has fallen by the wayside - the AWB in particular.

The administration made the assumption that Newtown changed the political calculus and that they could make an end run around the NRA. They were wrong.

Just to be clear - I support universal background checks. I live in one of the few states where they are required and I know they pose no threat to gun owners.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

41. No form of gun control, up to and including a blanket ban, would pose a threat to gun owners. N.T.

[hack89]

48. If we want to keep our guns, it would

not talking about Biden's strawman - everyone knows that will never happen.

[aikoaiko]

22. Not "work with" so much as "persuade".

Last edited Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:45 PM - Edit history (1)

Lets face it when you pick a taskmaster who has contempt for the people whose behavior you wish to change, it might not work out well.

[Raine1967]

29. Wait -- can you clarify this for me?

Do you think Joe Biden should persuade the Black helicopter crowd?

Do you think that crew is persuadable? I ask because I see/heard something very different in what Biden was messaging --

[aikoaiko]

33. The idea that the Fed (eta: Federal Govt) would like a registration is not just Black helicopter

He attributes the idea to them and then mocked them.

Registration has been linked to background checks in other countries

So my point is that there is a much wider population than the "black helicopter" crowd that has concerns about registration and he does need to persuade them instead of mocking them.

eta: Fed = Federal Government, not Federal Reserve

[madokie]

17. Enlighten me

[Cali_Democrat]

59. Those gun nuts are extremely delicate flowers

we can't hurt their feelings with such snarky rhetoric!

[aikoaiko]

61. I guess it depends on how committed one is getting gun control reform through congress.

Snark is fun. But failing your mission is not.

[Warren DeMontague]

7. Between this, and Biden saying the dread totemic phrase "New World Order"

I'd imagine he's got Alex Jones flipping right the fuck out.

[rdharma]

12. What would make you think that, Warren?

[PatSeg]

15. That would be quite a sight to see

[freshwest]

19. Beware. I can post the video.

[PatSeg]

25. I'd best use my imagination

Don't know if I could handle the real thing.

[freshwest]

27. Imagine a shapeshifting version of TAZ with many more voices, that's the one.

The man is quite talented for the role he's paid to play as a Koch brothers disinformation agent, really good. I dare anyone to resist the influence he uses on followers. The suspenseful music, the subliminal mnemonic devices used on multiple background screens of his video presentations and the sheer panic he's able to generate among listeners.

His film industry focuses on Obama hatred, full of historical facts blended with science fiction that tantalize and terrorize. Although he can be abusive to his radio show callers, they still maintain their devotion to the cult, too anxious about the world to quit.

[PatSeg]

42. He's a strange one

Rush is 99% performance, but I get the feeling that Jones believes most of what he says. All that crazy on Piers Morgan show didn't look like an act.

Also he was just as anti government during the Bush years.

Definitely many more vices than TAZ and TAZ is cuter too.

[Raine1967]

30. I was thinking the same thing.

Bummer. I think the Dems lost the Black Helicopter vote.

[Warren DeMontague]

34. Hell, I'm old enough to remember when the Illuminati threat was

Black Penny-Farthings.

[freshwest]

43. Both parties lost them after Waco. They're Left-Teas and Right-Teas now.

[freshwest]

47. Sure made his fans here flip out. Just sayin'

Might as well call it what it is and stop screwing around, or Biden will have to be twisting arms in the Senate all year.

[gateley]

9. K

[mountain grammy]

16. My son lives in Delaware

and he doesn't like Biden at all, says Joe's a phoney. I say, I wish we had more phonies like Joe Biden.

[hamsterjill]

18. Me, too!

I like that Joe can get tough when tough is what is needed. And when you're facing off with the NRA...tough is it!

Go, Joe!

[mainstreetonce]

24. Friends in Delaware

In election2008. Saying they could not vote for Obama/Biden. Why? Because Obama might be an assassination target and Joe might get shot with him. Also because they wanted Joe back in state. They love Joe.

[gateley]

28. Is that why they kept sending him back to the Senate for all those years?

[mountain grammy]

32. I love my son dearly, but sometimes he an idiot..he got it from his father.

[patrice]

54. !

[AnotherMcIntosh]

36. Biden does what the bankers want.

If your son who lives in Delaware perceives him as a phony, it may be because he's heard the I'm-just-like-you-and-an-ordinary-guy-who-took-the-train-to-work story too many times.

It's Biden's favorite story.

If you can think of something off the top of your head that he has done for the middle-class, what is it? What did he do for the bankers? Among other things, he made sure that debts incurred to go to college are no longer discharable in bankruptcy even while the policy of this country is to send jobs to foreign countries.

[mountain grammy]

60. Look, I don't agree with the man all the time. He voted for NAFTA and a few other things

that I believe are wrong. He's a politician who often goes along to get along. I still don't think he's a phony.
This is what I said to my son: "I want every Democrat to vote exactly like I want them to and if they don't I'll stamp my feet, hold my breath, and refuse to vote. Just like the teabaggers and religious right, only they ALWAYS vote. Then I can sit around and bitch and whine about a few votes I didn't like, while we sink furthur into right wing dystopia."
My son looked me in the eye and said "don't worry, mom, I will always vote, even if it's the lesser of two evils, like I believe Biden is. I'll never be a Republican like dad!" Whew, what a relief.We agree to disagree, as long as he stays liberal, even if he did laugh at me for not wanting to eat at Chic fil A.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

62. Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

I still don't know what he has done for the middle-class.

Whenever he has made his television appearances, he appears to be personable. For that purpose, he serves as a good role model. Since I don't reside in Deleware, I don't vote for the guy or against him. Certainly no one has ever decided how to vote with respect to Biden because of anything that I've ever said.

But I do know that he voted for NAFTA, the Iraq War resolution, the bankruptcy law changes, etc.

My observation re that he represents the bankers is just that. I said what I did in response to your comment that you son "doesn't like Biden at all, says Joe's a phoney." I agree with your son because Biden makes television appearances in which he seeks to give the impression that he is a reasonable person and represents ordinary Americans but then votes for the big-money interests which are harming this country. As I say, I don't vote in Deleware and I certainly don't influence anyone else's vote. It's just an observation.

[EC]

23. Kinda crazy?

how about full blown crazy? For crying out loud, if someone took over the country and were out for our guns, they wouldn't look for some kind of registry...they'd just go door to door and take them...

and it still allows a relative or friend to sell them a gun even if they are crazy...

[Lane1340]

26. That was pretty awesome... but...

You know what the loonies on the right will do... they will crop that video to make it sound like that he wasnt being snarky. Take out the context of the video and leave the part in there where he says special forces will swoop in and take your guns. Many people out there will actually believe he meant it.

[Raine1967]

31. Welcome to DU...

and with all due respect, fuck the RWLoons.

There really are people out there that Joe speaks of.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

35. Now we know. The bankers favor demonizing firearm-owning Democrats, the NRA, and the

"black helicopter crowd."

This spokesman for the bankers also pushed to make sure that the bankruptcy laws were changed so that those who were encouraged to take out student loans, but now cannot repay them, cannot discharge such loans in bankruktcy.

If he is looking out for our interests, why aren't some banksters in prison.

Whatever now happens, it's clear that the bankers - contrary to the ACLU which opposes it - want a nationwide database.

[Robb]

37. The "black helicopter crowd" thing must hit a nerve.

Perhaps if Joe showed you a birth certificate?

[AnotherMcIntosh]

38. Illogical, once again. But that's to be expected. Can't you come up with anything better?

[Robb]

39. I know!

You could sell your guns to finance your retirement!

Helpfully yours.

[freshwest]

45. This thread brought a little sunlight to DU.

[LanternWaste]

57. Much like your post hoc ergo prompter hoc premise.

"Illogical, once again..."

Much like your post hoc ergo prompter hoc premise. Six of one, half a dozen of the other, and both equally idiotic.

[Rex]

46. Whaaaa????

How do you want Biden to put banksters in prison? Just go up to them and arrest them or send them a warrant?

Sincerely,

That Makes No Sense.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

51. Since YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE raising an issue about Biden putting or not putting banksters in

prison, I agree 100% with you. As you said, "That Makes No Sense."

[Robb]

52. Operation Anything But Guns.

[Rex]

44. Joe don't put up with the bullshit from the NRA.

I like what I see.

[flamingdem]

49. JOE = SECRET WEAPON!

[Dawson Leery]

55. Remember, the "black helicopter crowd" were Bush's chief cheerleaders.

They are the same loons who fully supported the government crackdown on minorities, the war on drugs, terror.
They are afraid because their side is not in power.

[SunSeeker]

58. K&R

[tartan2]

63. I will always love me some Joe Biden!!

Somehow, I'm fairly certain that I would not want to get into a fight with Joe! But I sure would love to sit down and have dinner with him. In my perfect world a dinner with Joe Biden, Harry Truman, Teddy Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln would be off the charts, fucking awesome!!!