French study: Bras don’t help breasts

[Paul E Ester]

After 15 years of meticulously studying the breasts of 130 women, a French sports medicine scientist says: Bras are bogus.

They don’t help a woman with back pain or sagging or pretty much anything, professor Jean-Denis Rouillon, from the University of Besançon in eastern France, told The Local, an English language French news org.

Local writes: According to Rouillon, a sports science expert, the lesson to be learned from the preliminary results of his marathon experiment is that “bras are a false necessity”.

http://blog.sfgate.com/hottopics/2013/04/10/french-study-bras-don%E2%80%99t-help-breasts/

[Katashi_itto]

1. I like this study.

[HockeyMom]

2. to put it bluntly

If a woman is a D+ cup, it will hurt to RUN without a bra on. Why do they make special sports bras????

[Katashi_itto]

6. I would volunteer to watch and assist in making a judgement.

[Myrina]

8. D+ hurts no matter what you're doing, bra or not.

I've been carrying these missiles around for too long. Sigh.

[Mnemosyne]

54. I hear ya', Myrina, and you are so right. Mine came in during 5th grade and tricked me into

thinking they would be perky! Lasted a couple years then...

Then there are the guys that don't know you have a face, and the others that think you must be dumb and horny 'cause your boobs are big! Argh!

Wish braless was a good option!

[shanti]

78. oh to be perky again!

but what good would it do me at my age?

[Mnemosyne]

79. Perky makes it easier to keep from getting hit in the face with 'em when running. Of course, then

you lose that wrap-ability feature!

[HockeyMom]

134. I haven't gone, or been able to, go braless since I was 12

[JustAnotherGen]

69. +1

I'm more comfortable with a bra on. Add in fibroadenomas in my breasts and this study can go hang. I feel more comfortable and that's all that matters.

And this is why I do NOT wear pantyhose!

[Cleita]

86. Panty hose are out of fashion anyway here in California.

Most of the ladies around here go bare legged. There are some good body makeups on the market that cover flaws and color really white skin. They look very natural. And I love the freedom.

[Cleita]

87. wrong place

[R B Garr]

140. Hi Cleita! I've seen that bare legged look in California and want to try it

I've mostly been jeans/shorts/leggings for years, but I need to start actually dressing up now in some skirts and have noticed and read that pantyhose are no longer popular. Do you have any recommendations for the body makeups that you're referring to? I hate to just go into a department store and ask because the salespeople mob you at those counters. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. I'm quite fair skinned. What do you use?

[Cleita]

146. I use Sally Hansen Airbrush Legs.

You can get it in any drug store and it's water resistant. There are different colors to match your shade. I use Light Glow cuz I'm pretty fair skinned too. Also popular if you really want a stocking are nude net thigh highs. Those are popular now too.

[R B Garr]

148. Thanks! Sally Hansen is a good brand

It makes it so much better to go into the drugstore instead of a make-up counter at the department store. I'm going right now to look for it.

This has been on my mind especially since Easter when i saw women of all ages sporting that look, and it looks really terrific.

Thanks again!

[Maraya1969]

184. I use the spray on tan. It's better if someone else sprays it on for you

The one I have currently is Neutrogena but I think they are all pretty much the same. You can get the lotion too.

I haven't worn panty hose in years.

[R B Garr]

214. Thanks Maraya! I did check for this also at the drugstore

and saw they only had the Neutrogena in darker shades in stock, so I'll check back. They did have the Sally Hansen's, and I'm really looking forward to trying these out to look more modern in some skirts, especially with the summer months coming. Thanks for the tip!

[BainsBane]

156. I've seen fashion police skewer women for wearing nude hose

Which s fine with me because I despise hose. I'll wear tights or nothing on my legs, and I don't worry about how pale I am.

[Cleita]

163. I prefer bare legs myself, however, if I'm wearing pumps instead of

open toed slingy type shoes, I like some hosiery between me and the shoe, fashion police be damned.

[BainsBane]

172. Oh sure, I'm all for wearing what you want

I could care less what's in style. I just don't like hose.

[JustAnotherGen]

226. Not in Central NJ

Now I wear tights. Sorry - but 10 degrees wind and snow does not equal bare legs back in the north east!

Tights, long wool skirt, riding boots, cashmere twinset is a go to uniform at my work from late fall to early spring.

Then there are the 'clackers' in their panty hose and shit you I not - vulgar 4 inch platform heels at work! Jokes on them. Hammer toes, bunions and bloating in pantyhose canNOT be fun!

[Cleita]

228. Eek! That sounds so uncomfortable.

Back in my early twenties we had to wear girdles to keep our stockings up and point toe shoes. I was very uncomfortable all day and cranky as a result of it and especially cranky at that time of month.

[xmas74]

90. double d hurts like hell

It hurts my upper back from the weight and then hurts my lower from the contortions I put myself through to attempt to adjust my upper back .

[Macoy51]

99. I Disagree

I disagree, my girlfriend has DD’s and they have never caused me the slightest bit of discomfort. Even getting hit full force in the face with them causes me no pain. I guess it just differs for different people.



Macoy

[MattBaggins]

107. Way to be classy

[xmas74]

207. I guess it differs if they are personally attached to you

and not just in your vicinity.

[Macoy51]

222. Very True

I couldn't agree more. I guess they are like Grandkids, while I am very attached to them, I don't have to care for them full time.


Macoy

[Warpy]

102. I didn't get them until I turned 50 and blimped up.

Big boobs on an old lady, there is no god.

There are articles online that tell you how to fit bras precisely. I did that and once I got the right ones, the pain pretty much went away.

However, if you're big, you do need something to support those boulders or they start hurting all the time.

[Myrina]

105. Not to mention, without some kind of support ...

.... they'll be concealing your belly button in no time. Sigh.

I had elementary school teachers, and a grandma, designed like that and I always used to think "whoa, how does that happen?" ... then I woke up one day, in my late 30's, and it was ME.

[BainsBane]

119. cooking can be especially dangerous nt

[winter is coming]

143. Have you tried nursing bras? I mean the good ones, like Medela, not the cheapies

you can get at Target. Sure helped me when I was lugging around a pair of milk-heavy F's. I wore a bra 24/7 when I was nursing.

[GoCubsGo]

74. It hurts to do a lot of stuff without the bra on.

It often hurts with it, too (See: running--which is the main reason I don't run), but they sure do make life far more bearable.

[MillennialDem]

130. I am a D cup and run without a bra. I never wear bras at all in fact.

[etherealtruth]

141. I am a DD ... he only time I WANT to wear a bra is running/ sports

At work I give into societal expectations and wear a bra ... but it comes off when I walk in the door.

[BainsBane]

174. I'm guessing you're not wearing the right size

Or it wouldn't be so uncomfortable. You might be bigger than a DD and be wearing too large of a band size.

[etherealtruth]

175. Very true

I am actually a 34 DDD .... try to find those

I am 51 now .... but I have always hated bras. I know its in large part a 'me" thing, I am not a big fan of pantyhose, socks or anything

[BainsBane]

177. You're speaking to the Einstein of bras

Seriously. I've had to learn so much about them. 34DDD is not a problem as long as you realize you have to shop at specialty stores.

Here are a couple of sources for you.
http://www.plussizebras.info/

That site will give you good information about how to measure, fit, and sizing differences between brands. Then you need a specialty retailer. There may be a specialty store in your area where you can be professionally fitted. If not, there are many good stores with online sales. This one has a large selection and good customer service: http://www.herroom.com/
Once you identify the bra you want, you can do a search to see if you can find it cheaper elsewhere.

[etherealtruth]

181. You ROCK!!!!!!!!

I do go to a specialty retailer ... its just a pain in the ass (not very convenient)

Thanks

[xmas74]

208. I actually purchase mine from a local specialty shop

that deals with mastectomies. The women there are very helpful and are better at measurements than any department store. They are also very friendly and find great deals for me, make fantastic recommendations on what to wear, etc.

A coworker years ago said that her sister went to the local shop. She had lopsided breast sizes (a C on one and a D on the other side) and her sister absolutely raved about the place. I've discovered over the years that any non cookie cutter size woman is better off at a shop like this.

[etherealtruth]

217. This I have never considered!

Thank you!

[xmas74]

231. Not a problem.

The bras available there are for those with "abnormal" breast sizes, whether through a loss or different sizes, etc. They can build them up in any way needed and are always so nice and sweet.

And many of those shops are locally owned by women!

[ellenfl]

188. no one makes straps long enough! i'm constantly pulling the band down. and the wires poke.

why can't they be made shorter so they don't poke you under your arms?!

not to mention that the new made-in-china bras are not consistently sized. i measure as a 44d but wear 46dd because the bra i want is front-close and few makers make front close in larger than 38.

i quit wearing a bra for several years because i hate them almost as much as pantyhose (which i no longer have to wear!). i used to say that i would be happy to wear a tie if men had to wear bras. maybe then men would not require we wear them.

i wear a bra now because otherwise my girls wouldn't be able to see where they are going, looking down at the ground all of the time.

[BainsBane]

210. You're definitely wearing the wrong size

Is there a specialty bra store in your area where you can be professionally fitted?
Look at this site for information on how to measure yourself and sizing differences between brands. My guess is your wearing a band size is too big and cup size too small.

http://www.plussizebras.info/

[Sivafae]

3. I think it really depends on the size of the boobies.

When I was but a mere A or B cup, I never wore bras, thought they were stupid. Now that I am a DDD, I can't go without them. The bra just keeps everything where I'd like it to be, and that is the main reason I wear them. Of course, I don't have back pain and sagging is the last thing on my mind--gravity is going to do what it is going to do. And actually, from my experience and logic, bras would be the #1 reason for the back pain suffered by larger breasted women. It keeps the stress of the weight on the shoulders rather than letting the skin take all the weight.

The Venus of Willendorf was right all along. Who knew?

[Poll_Blind]

4. A lifetime of dating bigger women with large breasts and I generally agree.

Just my perspective, anyway. I love bigger women and all the shapes they come in. The "gear" they feel they require often does little, IMO, to help with sagging or what their breasts are going to do, anyway. I think sagging is more a product of fitness, genetics and probably more than a few other things...but I've never been particularly convinced bras did much except pain the shit out of women.

And I've also seen my share of young, more slender women who regularly wore bras and who had exceptionally saggy breasts.

I wish more people could enjoy the female form for what it is and not what they think it should be.

PB

[KittyWampus]

28. Well, you should ask all those "bigger women" how they feel without bras. Because all my friends who

are into D cups and larger say it is very uncomfortable not wearing a supportive bra.

[we can do it]

47. My poor friends with bras digging into their skin would disagree.

They also hate getting heat rash under the damn things too.

bras- not bars

[KittyWampus]

51. As others mentioned downthread… if bars are digging into your skin, you're wearing the wrong bra.

That much I did know. Most women wear the wrong bra size or the wrong design for their body type.

[we can do it]

61. i meant BRAS!

[CountAllVotes]

62. that is what I am fighting right now

Seven days of Diflucan and three bottles of Nystatin "dust" and some sort of cream I'm supposed to go and pick-up at the pharmacy yesterday ... lots of pain to go with it which would be the case when you develop open wounds underneath the breasts that look like a razor blade slashed you open. A bra would only make it much much much worse.

It is not fun be a D cup. I lost a lot of weight several years ago and am now a C cup and I still hate the size. Hard to buy shirts that fit (all made in China specials these days where women have tiny little tits) and as for a bra, you gotta be kidding about wearing one of those in my case when you thrown in a complete tear of the rotator cuff on to top the pain and discomfort off of this mess! UGH!

I tend to buy 100% cotton camisoles when I can find them and wear those instead.

I seriously hope this goes away soon and I sort of gave up on the bra thing years ago after finding out that I have the rotator cuff injury. Was told it was all in my head and that I hated my job and that was the problem until an MRI scan showed the extensive damage, so extensive it cannot be fixed. Cause was industrial so they covered it up nicely and off I went to the next job typing all day long.

[we can do it]

66. Oh my- I feel for you poor dear. I am blessed to be small and (pain) free.

My big bosom friends have similar episodes frequently, hope you fell better soon.

[CountAllVotes]

77. thank you

I appreciate any/all healing vibes I can get these days!

Take care of yourself. back.

[Maraya1969]

191. Oh wow. I am sorry for what you are going through. Pain sucks.

[Arugula Latte]

94. Yep. I'm fairly well-endowed. The first thing I do in the morning is put on a sports bra.

It's much more comfortable for me.

[GreenPartyVoter]

101. Agreed. Even when I was a 32DD I still needed them, simply because of the way my breasts are shaped.

But at my much larger size, I really can't stand to have them swinging around, as it were. I much prefer to keep them tucked up and away.

[ellenfl]

192. will you marry me? eom

[Brickbat]

5. No, but sometimes it's more comfortable to wear one. So whatever.

[NYC_SKP]

7. False necessity- also shaving, makeup, heels, neckties, and circumcision.

I'm sure there are others.

[cali]

17. I wear a bra for comfort. and let me tell you, so do a hell of a lot of other women

[NYC_SKP]

27. I would wear one, especially if I was large there, I think. I would probably shave a little too.

I was just making a sort of blanket and inclusive statement about modern contrivances, many of which are, I'm confident, actually helpful.

Others, like neckties, much less so!

[Xithras]

63. It's a lot like shoes.

The human foot evolved to function without protection, and we could all give up shoes today and spend the rest of our lives barefoot without any serious consequences (those of us who live outside of snowy areas anyway).

So why do so many humans wear shoes? Because they're comfortable, and pointy rocks kind of suck. For the vast majority of people, the vast majority of the time, they provide little practical benefit...but we LIKE them because they make our lives more comfortable and easier.

In modern society, there are countless items that we use on a daily basis that technically provide no genuine "benefit", but that we use anyway because they "feel nice" or fit our particular lifestyle preferences. Bras, shoes, shampoo, deodorant, etc., etc. Even the couch in your living room qualifies...our arses evolved to sit on dirt and rocks, so why do we all insist on filling our living rooms with soft, squishy seating? Because it feels good.

And honestly, that's all the reason we need.

[cliffordu]

39. Olive Gardens.

[NYC_SKP]

42. Remember that time we both wore bras to the Olive Garden?

As I recall, you were breastfeeding and I was smoking.

One of us had a pitbull.

[cliffordu]

70. I miss breastfeeding that mutt

[Hekate]

187. Jeez, Cliff, the neighbors are going to wonder why I'm laughing so loud

[cliffordu]

194. I'm here to serve.....

[xmas74]

91. Did you order fried chicken

Coated in corn flakes?

[NYC_SKP]

96. Nothing better than corn flake chicken!

Also, cliffordu was carrying a concealed weapon!

[cliffordu]

193. I've heard it called a lot of things before.....

So I guess 'weapon' is as good a name as any.

[NYC_SKP]

195. Hear tell it once killed a man just for snoring.

But maybe that was grantcart.

Would you mind asking him?

[cliffordu]

198. Anything I can do to help......

I should get you two fuckers together for a day of Tequila Two Step.

Big fun when the Technicolor Yawn begins.

I can moderate. I'm a professional.

[NYC_SKP]

199. Professional?

Ya right. so where's the iPhone video capture.

I KNOW you sent it to my mom (god rest her soul).

YOU BASTARD! (for not sharing) OK I'm done.

[cliffordu]

213. WELLL>>>>>>>

Fookin' ALERT then, YA FOOKIN HOSER!!!!!!

[xmas74]

206. Oh noes!

I hope Laura Branagan was there begging people to wrestle with her while talking about kudzu.

(Ok, kudzu wasn't a flamewar but just such an epic thread that it needs to be dragged out on occasion!)

[NYC_SKP]

212. the kudzu thread lasted a long time. Do you know what ended it?

And, do you know what the actual longest lasting thread was/is???

Great DU trivia!

[xmas74]

230. What did finally end it?

I remember I had to work overtime for a few days, came back and found it was over.

And what was the longest lasting thread? I'm not sure offhand but I wouldn't be surprised if I had posted in it somewhere. Many years ago I was a rather prolific poster, most of the posts being in the Lounge.

[NYC_SKP]

232. Rumor has it...

...that a member who was sick of it offered to make a larger than average donation if admins would lock it.

ON EDIT: I was wrong, it wasn't Kudzu, locked by callmewesley, it was the Pab Subgenis thread titled "Please remove":

Elad ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | MFP Fri May-04-07 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
2572. Locking
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=6267518#6481019

To LynneSin: Thank you in advance for your donation in the name of Elad.

I wasn't a mod at the time so can't be certain and wouldn't be able to tell you if I had been one and did know.

Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=4465947&mesg_id=4465947

You'll see that the Kudzu thread is, in fact, the third longest in DU history.

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x8999171

[xmas74]

233. I know all three threads!

I forgot about the others at the time.

[Paul E Ester]

147. I know all the memes except "Olive garden"

Found this http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x6957890

[NYC_SKP]

178. Rabrrrrr nailed it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x6957890#6957927

[Oilwellian]

9. I never wear one at home

Unless I'm expecting company. The minute I get home after being out in public, the bra comes OFF. LOL The only reason I wear one is to cover zee nipples from strangers.

Women come in all sizes and wear bras for all kinds of reason. I was visiting my uncle in Northern CA a few years ago and was so encouraged to see most of the women free of their bras. I could live there.

[shanti]

80. yes, nor cal

we're just all a bunch of bra-burning hippies up here i almost never wear one myself, but when i do, out in public, it's one of those "comfort" (ha) bras or a sports bra. i'm sure no one's looking at my nips anymore anyway

[etherealtruth]

142. That's what I do!

[Maraya1969]

197. That's the reason I wear one. I saw these sticker things that you can put

over that part of the breast but I figured it would just be expensive because you would have to put new ones on all the time.

I hate them so much that I've gone to far as to take them off in the car at a red light on the way home.

But if someone ever comes up with a way to cover the nipple and not have to wear a bra that is not expensive I am there!

[A Little Weird]

205. There is such a product

They are called Dimrs (which I think is a hilarious name). They cost a lot initially (around $30) but you can reuse them for ages. I found them for my Mom who has the same problem and she loves them (wears them in addition to her bra!). I have some myself as well but don't use them very often b/c usually the bra takes care of me.

http://dimrs.com/

[Maraya1969]

225. Thanks for the this!

[srican69]

10. iam sure they help -

like when women are running to catch the bus or are late for the morning meeting .. it keeps the boobs in place and reduce pain.

they also reduce liability ....you never know when the swinging breasts of woman who is running, might knock an unsuspecting passerby unconscious.

so a bra has its uses...

[Nye Bevan]

11. And men's underwear doesn't "help testicles".

But I wear it anyway because I like to.

[Paul E Ester]

14. French study: Underwear doesn’t help testicles

Don't think that headline will have the same page views.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

20. Why does my guy say he has to wear briefs for support, then???

I'm serious. Really.

[Nye Bevan]

22. As Kramer said, "my boys need a house" (nt)

[Hassin Bin Sober]

36. Because you never know if you might need to jump off a 4 foot ledge.

[Javaman]

48. Boxers normally, but when I run or work out; strickly briefs.

ever since an incident in Junior High when a friend of mine chose to wear boxes on the day we were to climb the ropes.

I'll leave it with that.

[mopinko]

25. agree nt

[Johonny]

29. study finds place in France where the men don't wear underpants

[Warren Stupidity]

40. Underwear keeps shit and urine off your pants.

[Arugula Latte]

95. Maybe you should try "The Nut Bra"

[TlalocW]

12. I've been led to believe

That for the most part bras are made and designed by men who don't know what women need - specifically the bustier ones. Surprisingly a webcomic called, "Wapsi Square," whose main character is a tiny woman with J-cups (based off the creator's past ex-girlfriend and current wife who are both busty) has a lot of resources on it. http://wapsisquare.com

One of them is Jenette's Bras, a shop owned and run by Jenette Goldstein who played Private Vasquez in the movie, "Aliens." The shop's slogan is, "The Alphabet Begins at D."

http://www.jenettebras.com/

TlalocW

[leftynyc]

24. Not true

I worked for over a decade for Vanity Fair (one of the largest lingerie companies in the world) and there were NO men designers of bras. Panties, yes, but bras were all women. Granted, there were many bras made for how they looked rather than for the support (we called these the 5 minute bras - your partner would see it and in 5 minutes it was off) but there are many bras out there that are engineering marvels. With the craze over breast implants, there were a lot of complaints about no "pretty" bras for larger cup sizes so that's changed a lot over the years.

Also, women notoriously wear the wrong size - they'll lose (or gain) 20-30 pounds, buy a new wardrobe but wear the same bra. Any decent department store should have a fit person in the bra department - I recommend all women go the one of them and get properly fitted. Nowadays, there are bras for every set of breasts whether talking about being sexy or supportive and there are even ones that are both.

[KittyWampus]

31. another interesting post… thanks. as frustrated as I get with DU, still find great stuff in all the

agita

[Mnemosyne]

56. I was wearing one that was too big around and too small cups, made a world of difference to have one

that fits right. I was stunned at the difference and highly recommend women all get fitted also.

[leftynyc]

71. That's what most women do

Band size too big and cup size too small. Many women feel if the bra is riding up in the back, it's too small when it's actually the opposite. I really cannot recommend getting fitted by a professional enough.

[Mnemosyne]

73. Amen! It hurts much less now, though underwires are still my bane. It is so worth it to invest in

a good brassiere!

[leftynyc]

75. Best brand is Wacoal

but they're pricy. Companies like Vanity Fair, Playtex and Bali have some great stuff for bigger busted women. I so hope people read your post - it'll change how they feel about bras once they've been fit properly.

[Mnemosyne]

76. I have two Wacoals and an Anita, love 'em! nt

[PasadenaTrudy]

97. Wearing Wacoal right now!

38DD! Very comfy, wide straps really help too.

[leftynyc]

100. They're well worth the price

When I was working for VF I didn't have to pay for bras or panties for 12 years - it was quite the sticker shock when I had to go shopping. Wacoal is definitely the best and will last a long time - but never, ever put it in the dryer!!! That goes for all bras - if your machine has a true delicate cycle, that's good but never the dryer.

[Warpy]

106. Ewww, underwires!

Those things always hit an old fracture an hurt like hell.

I got my best ones from the UK, forget the manufacturer name, but they're wearing like iron. Good thing, they cost an arm and a leg.

[leftynyc]

218. But I bet you're happy to

pay the price for something that fits well. Just take good care of them and they will last for 5 years or so (then the elastic is breaking down and it's time to shop). If you're shopping in the US, bring the style number of the bra you like and ask them to find one similar and make sure you try it on (with and without clothes) as the fit will likely be different.

[TlalocW]

72. To me there are bras and then there's lingerie.

Of course, I'm a guy and know very little about them, but in this case when I'm saying bras, those are your everyday, functional over-the-shoulder-boulder-holders. If you can make them pretty, that's great, but what you're wanting is comfort and support for an 8 hour workday. Most of those, I think are designed by men, and the companies they work for are trying to come close enough to "fitting" as many women as falls into a certain bra-range as possible. The comic - and its female supporters, of which there are a lot considering the male fan service and the boob jokes (maybe the boob jokes are endearing to the female supporters because they normally come from situations that large-chested women have found themselves in) - tend to advocate that custom fittings are what's needed for a good bra instead of just buying the closest male-designed bra off the... rack.

Some of the better storylines...
They use the rest of the alphabet?
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/11122001/

First visit to a custom fitter
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/07222004/

Monica gets in shape and gets a sports bra - at this point, the comic has kind of veered off into the supernatural. The main character's inner demons physically manifest themselves, she can teleport (poit), and the barista she talks to died and her body is now controlled by the body owner's former demons.
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/not-gym-class/

And then another one from a different comic
http://www.girlswithslingshots.com/comic/gws-1286/

TlalocW

[leftynyc]

82. Unless you're buying the exact same style

in the exact same size, a woman needs to try on every single bra -they all fit different (and we wont even get into the difference between an American cut vs a European cut (quickly, the bottom half of the cup of European bras are 1/2 inch shorter than American cut). As we age, we also need different things from bras. I honestly can say I've never even met a man who designed bras but I worked with the designer who made that second skin satin bra that has made over $1 billion for Victoria's Secret. She retired a few years ago and was probably the best in the business. You make an excellent point about the majority of bras and sizes fitting into a very small window but the reality is that most women will fit into those sizes.

Also, for the women out there - when trying on a bra, put your shirt or dress back on to see how it looks with clothes so you don't get an unpleasant surprise at home. 12 years in that business and attending dozens of fit clinics taught me a lot.

[R B Garr]

144. Your posts are great advice

I've gotta bookmark this thread with all the useful info and links to manufacturers. Bra fitting is a lot of work and very time consuming. Great advice about the smaller band size vs. cup size. Thank you.

[leftynyc]

216. You're very welcome

When I attend the opera with a friend of mine, our seats are up front so we are around where a lot of people congregate to chat before and between Acts - he's gotten very used to me commenting on how this woman or that woman really needs to get fitted - and these women are wearing seriously expensive clothes that look like shit because of their bras. Fittings are such a simple solution and it will get you into the right style to make you as comfortable as possible and also make your clothes fit better. And while I stand behind saying Wacoal is the best, a good sale at Kohls will get you a very good priced bra from Vanity Fair, Playtex, Bali, Lilyette and many others that will also make you feel great. If you have a Lord & Taylor nearby, they always have a large lingerie department and often have salespersons who are knowledgeable about fit.

[BainsBane]

120. largely because companies like vanity fair don't make

a full sizes. Many companies only size up to DD cup, so women end up wearing band sizes too big and cup sizes too small.

I have to get my bras from British manufacturers.

[KittyWampus]

30. Thanks for the link, I have some dear friends who might benefit.

[tammywammy]

34. Best bra site

Lots of info, lots of reviews, lots of bras to choose from.

http://www.herroom.com/

[BainsBane]

122. a good information site

http://www.plussizebras.info/

I also like the show DDivas about a bra store in Atlanta. I've love to shop from them.

[Volaris]

60. huh. Who knew. That's awesome for her.=)

[ellenfl]

200. vazquez is really a goldstein? whooda thunk it? thanks for the links. eom

[undeterred]

13. When I was on a camping trip to Brazil

almost all the women stopped wearing bras. And all the men got used to it pretty fast, because, well its Brazil and you couldn't find a woman in a bra no matter how hard you tried. It was hot and wearing a bra would have been ridiculous. But there was one rather young and fit woman in the group who kept wearing hers because she didn't want to "sag" - as if not wearing a bra for a week would make you sag.

It was amazing how the men stopped ogling when all the women were braless. But if you did that in the US it would attract attention.

[KittyWampus]

50. I work in the blazing hot sun during summer and wear athletic tank tops with built in shelf bras.

I highly recommend them for any woman doing strenuous activity in the hot sun.

[we can do it]

114. They are fairly comfy, too...and you can jump right into the pool after work.

[Demo_Chris]

15. I have spent years doing my own research on this topic...

As well as the equally interesting "Panties: on or off" question. My work is ongoing however, and I am unwilling to offer any conclusions at this time.

[Paul E Ester]

18. I recommend getting a grant from the UN and going global in your studies...nt

[Demo_Chris]

23. Funding is not the problem, I just need more volunteers! nt

[BainsBane]

123. try NIH

[Oilwellian]

33. LOL

You're a pill Demo Chris.

[JVS]

16. Jury Results

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

At Thu Apr 11, 2013, 10:37 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

French study: Bras don’t help breasts
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022653461

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

This is VERY VERY far removed from the purpose of the General Discussion forum. This is straight-up boobie-baiting, and it was only posted to start a flamewar. Please do the right thing and hide it. Thank you for your time.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Apr 11, 2013, 10:54 AM, and the Jury voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: We need eye rolly icons for jury duty.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Show some appreciation for the researchers who spent 15 years looking at 130 women's breasts!
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: why was this alerted on?
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Juror Study: This alerter doesn't help DU.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Paul E Ester]

26. Love DU Juries

A great system. Thank for posting that.

[we can do it]

49. What idiot alerted on this? Dear gawd

[B2G]

52. Which is why we need an eye rolly icon

Sincerely,

Juror #1

[we can do it]

55. Very cute! (I just don't get it some days)

[11 Bravo]

89. I can guess (and I'll bet you can, too).

[Apophis]

85. The outrage brigade was at it again, I see.

[maddezmom]

92. Boobie baiting?

A new term is born.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

121. The patriarchy strikes again!

[maddezmom]

128. I am thinking it should be referred to as

Boobie-gate. The DU conspiracy against breasts.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

137. .

[octothorpe]

93. WTF?

[kdmorris]

110. WTF?

Seriously, some people will alert on anything. I don't see this as flamewar material AT ALL. It's technically talking about BRAS, not "boobie-baiting" (someone made themselves up a new term!)

[Catherina]

113. Kick Fuckety Kick

to show how fucking out of touch some fucking "hypocritical prudes" here are.

[Shrike47]

133. I agree with Juror #1, we need eye rollies.

Obviously, a lot of people are interested in this issue, for various reasons.

[Cali_Democrat]

139. I think you can post the smilies in the jury results if I'm not mistaken

I've done that standard smiley before

[Manifestor_of_Light]

19. Most women wear a band size that is too small around the ribs.

And the cups are the wrong size as well.

Gotta measure below the breasts around the ribs. One can have small ribs and large breasts or vice versa.


I have big ribs and small breasts. I'm a 42" around the ribs and it's impossible to find anything in a 42 without going to a specialty shop.

Lots of people think that big ribs equals large breasts. They are not related.

[we can do it]

38. Same here, I gave the damn things up nearly 20 years ago. No ill effects.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

44. I take the trouble to find one that fits. I didn't throw them away completely.

Most of them are too tight. They shouldn't ride up in the back.
The straps should not slip.

I even found an underwire bra that didn't stab me in the ribs, at a specialty lingerie store.

www.topdrawerlingerie.com

[we can do it]

53. I'm 40 A - there is no need for one.

Once in a while I will wear a jog bra if I am planning to run for an hour or more (only to keep the nipples from getting abraded, it is hotter)

[Manifestor_of_Light]

150. I'm a 40B.

I was a 36A in high school and never thought I'd have anything. After breastfeeding one child for a couple years, I shrank back to a B.

I wear one in the daytime b/c it's more comfy and I don't want anyone but hubby seeing the nips due to modesty.

[we can do it]

154. I wear pretty loose tops most of the time, some no show worries.

A while bag I was in line with that jog-bra I mention, it was an XL this rather large woman behind me saw it a said, wow if you are XL what am I? I could not answer..... also on another trip to pick out the elusive jog bra that fits, I tried to try on a large and got stuck with an arm over head, i almost called for help....my friend who was shopping with me came back because I was taking so long and started cracking up...I did manage to free myself somehow.

[Mnemosyne]

57. Underwire that doesn't stab?!!! Thanks for the link, Manifestor! nt

[winter is coming]

98. I've got some Glamourise underwires that don't stab. They're expensive,

but have held up well.

[Warpy]

129. Speaking of straps, why the HELL don't they

attach each side about an inch more toward the middle of the back? that would solve so many problems with slippage and would work with most clothing.

[winter is coming]

138. Why are the straps so effing short?

Mine are always lengthened as much as possible, and are still barely adequate. I'll loosen them even more if I could.

[eridani]

223. Still lack range of motion due to frozen shoulder, and have therefore switched to

--front fastening bras with posture backs. The straps never shift, and my back is more comfortable.

[tammywammy]

67. Check out this website

http://www.herroom.com/

You can also go down to a 40 if you go up a cup size.

[BainsBane]

124. I think most people wear band sizes to big

to compensate for the fact they can't find big enough cup sizes in regular stores.
Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what appears to be the case since it's easier to find larger band sizes than cup sizes.

[smirkymonkey]

159. I agree, I have a fairly small rib cage but a very large cup size so I can never find a bra

that fits well. So I have to go up in band size to get a cup size that fits. I hate the huge harness bras that they make for well endowed women - I still like pretty bras, but only a few manufacturers make them in larger cup size. You would think that someone would have spotted the hole in the market.

[BainsBane]

162. There are a few nice ones

Panache, Elomi, and Fantasies of England have pretty bras. Panache provide the best support. Elomi are more comfortable. Have you shopped online, specialty stores like herroom.com?
Plussizebras.info has good information about how to fit a bra and size differences between brands. You can't get good support if the bra doesn't fit right.

[smirkymonkey]

202. Thank you for the tips!

I have never heard of those websites before, but I will look into them. I am desperate for a pretty bra that accommodates a large cup size.

[JI7]

221. there is a brand called Freya which makes some really nice ones, they can be expensive

but i have found some at stores which sell discounted stuff like nordstrom rack. and i think you can get some on sale online.

they also make bathing suits

the sizes can be based on european sizes so try to make sure you are getting the right ones if you do order online.

[Skittles]

157. OOH I HEAR YOU

I too have HUGE ribs and the assumption is I must have huge boobs too!!!! WTF!!!!

[Egalitarian Thug]

21. What's always surprised me every time it happened, is how few women know

how to pick/find a properly sized bra for themselves. In my experience almost half of them were wearing the wrong size or configuration until they took up with me. Of course, it was a woman that taught me.

[BainsBane]

125. LOL

Seriously? Most men know squat about bra sizing. Good for you.
Often women don't know much either. One of the funniest things was when a clerk at Victoria's Secret tried to sell me some of these:




The child had no concept.

[robinlynne]

131. I wear them all summer long.

[BainsBane]

132. those little silicone thingies?

[robinlynne]

151. wearing them now. I have small breasts.

and they really don't make bras for regular sized women with small boobs. They do, but they are very very hard to find and cost a fortune, so I gave up.

[BainsBane]

153. I'm glad you found something that works

My bras are very expensive, but I happened to come across a sale on Hautelook last week and ordered two for $25 each!

[robinlynne]

155. oh. we little ones can never find a fitting bra online! They just wnat to prtetend that everyone is

a C or larger!

They literally don't carry 38As in stores. As if we didn't exist.

[BainsBane]

160. Have you tried specialty stores?

Like Herroom.com? I just did a search in 38A and turned up About 100.
http://www.herroom.com/search.aspx
I never have more than a half dozen or so to choose from. I can't buy bras in regular stores myself. I can't tell you how amazed I was to see my size in that sale.

[robinlynne]

196. Thank-you. i will look at your search. generally they say they have them but they dont when you .

actually click through.

[BainsBane]

136. they must work for some

but you'd think a lingerie clerk would have a sense of who they might work for looking at a woman.

[robinlynne]

152. They are great for camouflaging nipples. Even with a bra I still put them on sometimes. but each

body is different.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

164. Covers? I should live so long!

I had no idea. High tech pasties....

[Heywood J]

169. I learned all about bra sizing some years back.

She had her favorites in the wash and was making herself crazy for something. I thought I'd be helpful and so, when they were done, I put them in the dryer for her so they'd be all dryer-fresh, warm and fluffy...

After my lineage was sufficiently cursed, we ended up in Kensington Market to find three stores where I learned a whole lot more about bras than I ever thought existed.

[BainsBane]

171. washing machine and dryer?

Never, not mine. The only time I'd wash a bra in the machine is in a front loader, and I never put them in the dryer. I pay too much to have them mangled.

[Heywood J]

176. My washing machine is comparatively gentle,

but I've learned my lesson about the dryer. That was an expensive day... I still remember thinking that I've paid less money for suits then I paid for bras alone that day.

Chalk it up to learning that sometimes being helpful really isn't.

[BainsBane]

180. I bet

Luckily London is a good place to buy bras. All the best manufacturers of large cup size bras are British.

[Egalitarian Thug]

179. One ex used those to deal with a symmetry problem she had.

[BainsBane]

182. Do you ever watch DDivas on Lifetime?

It's about a lingerie store in Atlanta. Everyone's breasts are a bit differently sized, but one woman had a particularly large differential. Those women who own that store are amazingly supportive and sorted her out. Like all their customers, she left feeling great about herself, which is clearly their mission. I love those ladies.

[Egalitarian Thug]

185. Sorry, I don't watch TV. Women need good lingerie stores. It's one of the very many things that

are either too rare or no longer exist thanks to the looting of America. A parent can't pass along knowledge they don't possess and apparently how to find a bra that fits and what makes a good bra are two pieces of knowledge that are dying.

[datasuspect]

32. corollary - my balls get no benefit from underwear

that's why i never wear underwear.

[we can do it]

35. I knew this a long time ago. Just another way to get women to waste more money.

[catbyte]

37. But wearing something like the AHHH Bra, like I am doing right now, feels more

comfortable to me than having them swinging loose. Underwires are a whole other story--those were designed by Satan.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

45. Got a non-stabby underwire at this shop. it's possible to find comfy underwires.

www.topdrawerlingerie.com

[smirkymonkey]

161. Totally, I kind of need one, but I can't wait to get it off at the end of the day and

just breathe!

[Le Taz Hot]

219. A semi-funny underwire bra story.

This was many years back when I was still young and cute and skinny but my brother, after being at the wrong place at the wrong time and doing something incredibly stupid, landed in the County Jail. I went to visit him and during the process had to go through a metal detector. Of course the underwire in the bra made the detector go off and they made me remove my bra before they would allow me back to the visiting area. Unfortunately, that day I happened to wear a pretty form-fitting t-shirt so here I am, mungo boulders hangin' loose, at a men's correctional facility. I walked in hugging the girls with my arms around my chest. It was a short visit.

[pinboy3niner]

41. Tittilating tresearch threads take tsience to a whole tnew tlevel

[redqueen]

43. I suspected that was the case... so glad to see this!

Thank you for posting it!

[treestar]

58. I remember learning from some model they brought to our school

that you have to wear foundation to protect your pores. If you don't wear foundation, dirt will get into your pores and you will get more acne. Now that strikes me as an excuse to sell foundation. Likewise, people selling bras sold us on the idea it would be bad for you not to wear one.

During the bra burning years, there would be articles on this. How it was just so bad for your back, etc., not to wear them. Interesting that the feminists made the choice of burning bras.

[we can do it]

116. Putting something on your face that clogs your pores keeps your pores from clogging.

Sounds like repub thinking.

[BainsBane]

211. that foundation thing is bogus

Totally. The only reason to wear foundation is cosmetic. Your skin is more likely to break out wearing because of make up than without it.

[baldguy]

59. This thread is useless without pics.

C'mon! Someone had to say it!

[Mnemosyne]

65. ...

[Baclava]

204. I agree

[Baitball Blogger]

64. I so totally disagree.

[we can do it]

68. Ann Landers said if you can't hold up a pencil you don't need one - I agree.

A Pencil test, developed by Ann Landers, has sometimes been promoted as a criterion to determine whether a girl should begin wearing a bra: a pencil is placed under the breast, and if it stays in place by itself, then wearing a bra is recommended; if it falls to the ground, it is not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassiere

[GreenPartyVoter]

103. I haven't passed that test since I was 13. :^(

[we can do it]

115. I still pass after nearly no bras for nearly 20 years.

[GreenPartyVoter]

167. I bet that's really nice. :^) Life was a lot more freeing back

when I could, but then again, I was a kid which was pretty freeing in and of itself.

[BainsBane]

145. me either

but make it 10. I've always hated that pencil idea.

[GreenPartyVoter]

165. It is the bane of any pendulous type lady, for sure.

[Skittles]

158. I can still pass it at age 56

[GreenPartyVoter]

166. The only time I enjoy these things is when I am flashing a little cleavage, provided

I'm not dropping crumbs down there.

[Skittles]

168. on the rare occasion I wear anything form-fitting

I inevitably am asked if I got breast implants

[GreenPartyVoter]

170. LOL

[Bay Boy]

224. Who asks you that?

Men or women? Do they ask you that in a work or casual setting? In a group or a one on one situation?
I can't imagine asking a woman that under any condition. I may think it, but would never ask it.

[Skittles]

229. anyone who knows me well

who has never seen me wear anything form-fitting - it is a startling contrast - and like I said, it is very rare

[Le Taz Hot]

220. Mine were used as the

place to hide everyone's stash, including the pipes. Actually, they still are.

[Contrary1]

81. And then there are those of us who only wear bras to hold up prostheses...

:sigh:

[we can do it]

117. That's ok, we are glad you are here!

[RedstDem]

83. bras dont help, but arnt they made for comfort?

Don't think there's anything that will stop nature from taking its course.

[BanzaiBonnie]

84. And they needed a study?

To learn what many of us already knew? I hate bras. They are devices of torture. I've yet to find one that's comfortable, even when fitted by a professional.

I do wear one, only for conventions sake. Yes, sometimes I abide by social norms. Only because I don't want people staring at me. There are times to fit in and times to stand out.

[Cleita]

88. Since old age has sent my Ds down to my knees,

I have to wear a bra because I'm very active. However, no amount of exercising my pecs will reverse what gravity has claimed. That takes surgery.

[nolabels]

104. Like if breasts were their own person............

I don't know what happened to 'burn the bra' revolution but is sure seems like some people might have been burning them for the wrong reasons.

Last time i checked it was 2013 and we have cell phones with video and banking, cars that park themselves and solar revolution. So when is somebody(s) going to invent something to help cure this problem. This thread makes me believe that there is a vast untapped market of discontent and uncomfortableness out there wanting and waiting for some help.

[PD Turk]

108. "After 15 years of meticulously studying the breasts of 130 women"

Somebody got paid for this? Shit, i went into the wrong field

[JVS]

111. That guy's power point presentations must be a hit at conferences.

[PD Turk]

209. yeah

I think that would be power "points" lol

[kdmorris]

109. I don't think anyone thought it "Helped breasts"

I've worn bras for my whole life, but pregnancy and breastfeeding still made them sag. I've never worn bras to "help my breasts". I wear them because they are comfortable (if you get fitted and get the right size).

Before this pregnancy, I wore a bra when I went out, but since I work at home, generally didn't. Of course, I wasn't a wearing a freaking DD then. I've taken to wearing one pretty much 24/7 now and probably will until my sons are born because it's VERY uncomfortable to not wear one. At night, I have to sleep with a pillow between them.

So, I don't really think they are a false necessity unless someone thought they were actually doing anything except keeping us comfortable.

[HockeyMom]

183. Nursing

Where would you put the nursing pads if you didn't wear a bra? Scotch tape? OUCH! No pads? New meaning for wet tshirt contest?

[kdmorris]

186. I think Duct tape would work better! (LOL) n/t

[Blue Owl]

112. Set 'em free, I say...

n/t

[we can do it]

118. Me too....Be free little friends

[robinlynne]

126. way?

[Generic Other]

127. I always knew this

The only thing they do is stop people staring at your nipples.

[stopwastingmymoney]

189. Best reply

That's why I wear them

[HockeyMom]

135. To ask MEN

why do you need a JOCK STRAP? Um, it's not just "the girls". What about "the boys"?

[maddezmom]

149. Not a man but I'd say support like some of us larger breasted women.

Along with protection in sports that includes a cup.

[JVS]

190. The strap is for sports and it holds a protective plastic cup in place so that your balls don't...

get hurt.

[Number23]

173. How interesting. I know I won't leave home without one

but that's just me.

I find that underwire ones are like torture devices. The new development in more comfy bras like the Smart Bra was long overdue.

[Wednesdays]

201. I thought it was nearly universally understood

I thought it was nearly universally understood that bras were nothing more than a cosmetic/fashion accessory all along.


Same deal as with corsets and girdles.

[Aristus]

203. Loving this thread...

[Le Taz Hot]

215. I've hated bras

since I had to put my first one on at age 11. It's always the first thing I take off when I come home. Unfortunately, I've got a huge chest and I can't really go out of the house without one and I certainly can't exercise without one so I'm stuck with it. And the larger you are, the more expensive they are. The last ones cost me $50.00 a piece and that was on sale. But the MINUTE I get home, that damned thing is OFF!

[riverbendviewgal]

227. yay, I never wear one, I was a rebel.

I am just an old hippy. LOL. After menopause my little oranges turned into lovely melons. And they don't sag. This article speaks the truth.

Reading all the comments made my day. I laughed and learned. I have to confess sometimes I wear those string tanks with the extra support band of material to hug my girls. My bf calls them big marshmallows.