"I come to Bury Obama, Not to Praise Him."

[MineralMan]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by cyberswede (a host of the General Discussion forum).

I think I'm seeing much like this sentiment expressed often here. It's getting tiresome, I think. Nobody agrees with everything the President has done, but I think the view is getting unbalanced of this man we all elected to his office.

Just my opinion, really. Maybe we should take a longer view and see how things develop and where they are going. The President still has a long time to serve, and there's a mid-term election coming up. The entire story is yet to be told.

Besides, A symbolic Brutus or two may be nearby, I sometimes think.

[fadedrose]

1. He reminds me of a fictional character

in a book I read - about a never-losing poker player.

He knows when to hold, when to fold, knows how to read faces, and he sure can bluff.

I have faith in him still.

[MineralMan]

2. I have faith in our system of government.

This is the first year of President Obama's second term. I tend to take a longer view, and can see back into his first term, when much was actually accomplished. I don't judge Presidents by a single proposal, nor by what is happening today. Presidents are judged for their entire presidency. There's a lot of time left in that.

I'm just not as ready as some to write off this President. I'm sure someone will be along to tell me I'm woefully incorrect, though.

[ananda]

63. For me, it could be Brer Rabbit.

..

[fadedrose]

68. Ya...him too...

[treestar]

3. The midterms matter

With a better Congress, maybe he could get his appointments confirmed, let alone try more left legislation.

Note that all the "betrayed" people are doing their best to make sure we get a more Republican congress in 2014. I think they'd rather martyr themselves as "betrayed" than actually see any progress.

I will be blaming them if 2014 gives us a worse Congress. They are already doing their best to discourage people against the Democrats.

[MineralMan]

4. I agree completely.

I cannot think of a single thing we could do that would be more important than electing a Democratic majority in the House in 2014.

GOTV 2014!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. I see Jim Graves will be running against Bachmann again.

This is good news. He almost got her last time; with any luck (and work and money) he can boot her nasty little ass out of Congress next time.

[MineralMan]

8. I think he'll win this time. Bachmann's story is told.

However, prepare yourself for people to call Jim Graves a DINO, and suggest that he's not worthy of the office. He is, in fact, a centrist. Anyone with a sound mind recognizes that. He is also a Democrat, who will vote with the Democratic caucus in the House almost 100% of the time. He's not in my district, but if he were, he'd have my vote.

No true progressive could possibly win in that district. Graves can win, and will join the Democratic Caucus. I would count that a solid victory for Minnesota. I also am encouraged by the candidate running against John Kline. I think she has a chance.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

26. It's a relatively conservative district (demonstrated by the fact

that Bachmann currently represents it), so I would expect that Graves wouldn't and can't veer very far off to the left. Nevertheless, if I lived in his district I'd be out there doing what I could to get him elected. Keith Ellison is my rep, so I can't complain, but he wouldn't have a chance in the 6th. Getting Bachmann out and a Democrat in - even one that isn't as leftish as I might like - would be a huge improvement.

[MineralMan]

29. My Congresswoman is Betty McCollum.

Again, she'd stand no chance in CD-6, despite her solid progressive stands. Betty's great, as is Keith. The Cities Rule!

[Marr]

44. Wait a minute-- I was told liberals are irrelevant.

And the ones on this site are doubly so. Not representative of anything.

Not so anymore, huh?

I suppose that rule is repealed whenever a "moderate" throws the election with something as moronic as suggesting cuts to Social Security.

[treestar]

48. They don't think they are

That's why they are doing all the screaming and threatening not to vote, not to campaign. I've seen it all before. They won't be satisfied until they get a Republican President and Congress.

[Union Scribe]

77. Like you blame the left for 2010, based on nothing

Let's be honest: you'll blame the left no matter what, because the alternative is to blame Dem leadership and you're not going to do that.

[Rex]

6. You are woefully incorrect.

Sorry cannot help it, you typed it so had to. I think what we are seeing here, just my opinion of course if anyone doesn't know that already, is perhaps people posting on the Internets. In raw format.

[MjolnirTime]

7. Some of the clowns stinking this place up remind me of Mitch McConnell

It was their goal to see Obama become a one-term President.

They failed just like Turtleneck did.

And they can't stand it that Obama doesn't have to pay them any mind for the next 4 years.

Like a pack of Rumplestiltskins.

[MineralMan]

10. But what's their goal now? That's the question I have.

With 2014 coming up, I'm very concerned.

[MjolnirTime]

14. I don't understand them either. They want to take their toys and go home, apparently.

They cannot get over seeing Obama as their enemy.

[madokie]

15. To make sure he doesn't have a majority to help him after the election

Thats what some here's agenda is.
You asked I told you.
This obama bashing thats going on here is getting tiresome to say the least

[MineralMan]

16. I'd hesitate to say that, but it's a natural conclusion to

draw. My posts in GD calling for a renewal of GOTV efforts in 2014 have received much criticism from some DUers. I personally can find no reasonable argument against trying to get a Democratic majority in the House in 2014. Still, some are telling me that it's a waste of time and that they aren't going to even try.

I'm not sure what other conclusion I can draw from that, frankly.

[Andy823]

62. Kind of like 2010

The same BS was being spread here back then, and it was simply to get voters to stay home and not vote, teach the president a lesson. Of course we all know how that worked, just ask people in the state were republicans took control and are still trying to privatize everything for the rich!

It's the same scenario, probably by a lot of the same posters that complained so much back then. Of course this time I think it's gotter worse, and we have a lot more trolls feeding the fires. Just my opinion.

[Union Scribe]

72. Again, that is a myth.

Or do you have some exclusive data about liberals staying home in 2010?

[99Forever]

47. As you damn well should be.

It will likely make 2010 look like a walk in the park.

You can thank your triangulating President and his little helpers for that.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

31. which clowns here wanted to see Obama as a one-term President?

We don't typically allow that sort of thing here. Which people are you referring to?

[OnyxCollie]

9. Was it easier for you to be an opinion leader and do message control

while you were an uber-poster at Freeperville than it is here?

[MineralMan]

11. Uff da! nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

41. heh.

[Schema Thing]

12. He seems to have united D's and R's to reject "chained CPI"... so that's good

otoh, as someone said above, "mid-terms matter"


They matter a lot.

[MineralMan]

13. I have no idea about his intentions with that proposal,

to tell you the truth. I'm waiting to see what comes from it. I'm also still sending messages to legislators opposing chained CPI. I'll continue doing that until this phase of the budget is completed.

[Orsino]

17. "Wait and see" is mighty thin gruel when a Dem fucks up...

...and offers to cut SS.

I think that whatever hidden chess game lies behind it is going to have to be that much more convincing for every day that passes with the president as its only political advocate.

[MineralMan]

18. OK. My opinion remains the same.

Yours might differ. We both get to post our opinion. Seeya.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

19. The political scorekeepers appear very concerned, as well they should be

Touching the third rail is often fatal, politically, hence the name.

Not sure what Obamas advisers were thinking with this move, but the backlash should not be a surprise.

Hopefully, it knocks some sense into his team!

:fingers-crossed:

[MineralMan]

20. Well, I'll still be here either way.

We shall see.

In the meantime, I'm working on getting a Democratic majority elected to the House in 2014.

GOTV 2014!

[marions ghost]

54. Ditto +++

That's what I'm hoping--that "the backlash will knock some sense into his team."

In taking this side of the argument I think that is what we are calling for--

DAMAGE CONTROL

--Maybe those who are defending the administration so fervently on this question could realize that???

We all have the same motive, the same goal--just different reactions to what is obviously at this point, a serious mis-step.

And both camps have the same fear-- a deep-seated fear that maybe we really can't stop the corporate juggernaut--by ANY means.

[Marr]

21. Hilarious. Last week it was, 'how about you wait until he actually presents a budget'.

And now it's, 'hey, it's been two days-- can we just look Forward™, please?'

[MineralMan]

23. My laughing friend:

I have no choice but to wait, except to work toward a Democratic majority in the House. I am doing both.

What's your alternative to waiting?

[Aerows]

22. You are welcome to your opinion

Suetonius may not be wrong about this one if there are cuts to SS and continued uncalled for austerity plans.

"Kai su teknon" is going to become to cry of everyone affected by austerity, even those that can withstand it, until only the very few can deny it.

Austerity is the road to economic despair for the merchants and laborers that are not corrupt, because those that are law-abiding get sucked dry.

EDIT: Which I might point out is playing out now, and nothing new in history. It is what happens when oligarchs/hegemony/call them what you wants/ take over and prevent the honest from being honest and help the thieves become prosperous.

[MineralMan]

25. I do not assume that such cuts will occur.

I do not know how that will play out. Do you?

And will those be the last words? Again, I have no idea, but I know that not many in the US know Greek.

[Aerows]

28. It's a shame

that many do not know history because it is being played out for their own eyes to see it, regardless of what language they speak.

[MineralMan]

30. Whatever you say. History will tell the tale.

I don't predict the future, nor will I even try.

[Aerows]

32. You are a geologist

and through geology, you see patterns that occur throughout time.

Those things occur in biology as well. You are arguing for something that you probably wanted in the first place. Just don't cloak it in terms that you believe it will have an overall positive impact. It won't, and everyone that isn't blinded by Reaganomics and Thatcherism vehemently opposes it.

[MineralMan]

35. Actually, no, I'm not a geologist.

I'm a fair hand at mineralogy, but I'm out of that business now. It was a short-term interest for me, really. Mineral collecting is a fascinating hobby, but as a business, it had a short life for me. I was one of the first mineral specimen dealers on the Internet. Now, there are dozens. It became too difficult to buy stock at profitable prices, so I shut the business down and sold its entire stock to another dealer.

I kept one favorite specimen as a life marker.

Moving on...

[Aerows]

37. I see

You are just a merchant.

Well I hope you are a corrupt one, because soon, that will be the only ones that will able to make a good living.

[MineralMan]

43. Yes, a merchant. We're all merchants.

We have something of value that we place on the market.

But, no, I'm not a corrupt merchant. I always offered good value to everyone. When I could no longer do that, I left that line of business.

[Aerows]

52. And you left the market

because there were too many in it. See, it's not like food or transportation. Or healthcare.

Vital markets are where the lucrative outcomes are poised to take a nosedive when too much austerity hits. Yes, most people that can will grow a garden, learn how to use less energy, and basically "hoof it". But the vulnerable won't be able to do so, and those that have kindness in their hearts won't be able to handle the overflow.

[MineralMan]

58. No, not exactly. I left because I could no longer offer high quality

mineral specimens at reasonable prices. That was the basis of my business. Pure supply and demand, along with a business principle I wasn't willing to change.

My business was based on finding rare minerals and aesthetic specimens at prices I thought were very reasonable. I then offered those to other collectors with very modest markups, so they could enjoy them. In the process, I enjoyed having an extensive mineral collection to study. It changed constantly, so there was always something new to learn about.

My customers were all serious mineral collectors with limited budgets. I had very interesting and sometimes extraordinary specimens that they could add to their collections while staying within those budgets. My business was very atypical of the industry, and very popular with collectors.

My strategy was to buy the very bottom end of material from high-end mineral dealers. For them, the specimens were not worth bothering with. Those high end dealers often purchased entire collections for 7-figure amounts. In every great collection is always a set of mineral specimens that were purchased for one reason or another, often early in the collector's hobby. They remained in the collection until it was sold, often after their deaths.

The high end dealers who competed for these collections had no interest whatever in those specimens, and often passed them along to me at bulk prices that made it possible for me to offer rare minerals, unusual specimens, and even some historic specimens with labels dating back to the 1700s for prices a modest collector could afford.

In the meantime, they were available to me for study, and to display in my little mineral museum until they were sold. School classrooms came to visit my showroom and museum, where I taught them a little about minerals and sent every student home with a specimen of his or her own. The goal wasn't to make a pile of money, ever, and I didn't. The business made a small profit, which repaid my time doing the scut work of photographing and listing specimens on my site and packing and shipping them. I had other sources of income doing other work at the same time.

I don't work within the standard business model, and never have. I started that mineral business with $100 and a website on CompuServe's early web hosting venture. I soon developed my own website, where there were never less than 3000 specimens in stock. A dozen years later, after passing many, many thousands of specimens through the business, the model the business was based on no longer worked. So, I moved on to my other interests, and passed the entire stock on to one of my regular customers for about my original cost. He continued the tradition, offering interesting specimens to collectors at very reasonable prices. I didn't sell him the business name or the website...just the remaining stock.

It was a business, but also my hobby at the time. I operated it primarily so I could pass all of those specimens through my hands to learn more about mineralogy. Now, I do something else as a hobby. I rarely spend more than ten years pursuing any interest. That's how I've lived my life. I am on the edge of financial insecurity and always have been there. It's the price a guy pays for doing whatever he pleases. It's all been very much worth it, and a great pleasure.

[In_The_Wind]

71. I have a collection that is better than some I've seen in museums.

I've only recently started to sell a few pieces on consignment.

[Aerows]

56. Think you could teach us all about the minerals trade?

Maybe you can tell us how the Coltan trade works.

I guess it's a wonder how you got out of that business recently.

[MineralMan]

60. I have no idea. I suppose I had a couple dozen

columbite/tantalite specimens in my stock over the time I was in business. All of them were from old collections, and I found them uninteresting. Most came from Brazil and Canada, and showed poor crystal forms. Cheap specimens, of interest to only a few collectors. Almost all were collected in the 1940s and 1950s, and were from old collections.

None came from any commercial mining operations, which are rarely interested in preserving specimens. Instead, they were collected in the field by specimen collectors.

Very, very few mineral specimens come from commercial mines. Most come from non-mining collection by people interested in mineralogy. Industrial mining is not of interest to me now, and it wasn't then.

I'm sure you have some point in mind, but commercial mining is not my area. I could go look it up, I suppose, but it's not interesting to me.

[Hotler]

24. Really! Really! The man had a chance to show some .....

spine, some fight in his first term when we had control of both houses and he let the war criminals walk, he let Wall St. walk and caved on single payer health care. Remember when he said "Now is not the time to point fingers."? Every time I turn around he's appointing another Wall ST. crook to a major position. Geez! If you think that he is magically going to find a backbone and start standing up to the fuckers that have ruined this country keep dreaming.

[MineralMan]

27. ZOMG! ZOMG! nt

[cbrer]

33. Ettu MineralMan?

I think most people here are more than willing to give President Obama the benefit of the doubt. With a healthy awareness that ALL politicians must feel blowback when f***ing around with safety net programs.

We're all strapped in for the "longer view" ride. I hope our fears are ill founded.

[MineralMan]

36. We have little choice but to take the ride.

We do have one choice, though. We can create a Democratic majority in both houses of Congress in 2014. Will we? I think that will play a large role in many things. If we do not, I don't anticipate a good outcome, frankly.

GOTV 2014!

[BlueCheese]

34. In the play...

... the man who said that, Mark Antony, was actually misdirecting when he said that.

Brutus had just given the people the reasons the senators had killed Caesar. The citizens were convinced by Brutus' reasoning, and so Antony had to pretend to also criticize Caesar. Once he got deeper into his speech, though, he turned against the senators and changed the people's minds.

As for symbolic Brutuses, I think most people would say that Brutus was the moral hero of the play-- he reluctantly killed his dear friend because he feared he was becoming a tyrant. The rest of the senators were not necessarily as noble-minded.

None of this is meant to have anything to do with Obama, but just wanted to point out your quote may not be saying what it seems at first.

[MineralMan]

40. Lots of people are misdirecting around here.

I know exactly why I posted that version of that line.

I'm also a big Shakespeare fan. But thanks for your reply.

[BlueCheese]

46. Okay...

Interpreting the quote the way Antony meant it, it sounded to me like you're saying there are people here who are pretending to criticize Obama, when in fact they want to praise him. But the rest of your post didn't appear to agree with that. I may have gotten it wrong-- I certainly did in English class enough times.

[MineralMan]

50. There's another layer.

In fact, there's more than one.

[Pisces]

38. It is very tiresome.

[cali]

39. take any view you wish. Don't like the criticism. easy peasy solution:

Don't click on those threads.

[MineralMan]

42. Oh, dear! I thought that I got to choose which threads

to read and comment on. I think I'll ignore your advice. I like knowing what everyone is saying.

But, thanks for your reply, anyhow. It's good to know you're not following your own suggestion for my posts.

[cali]

70. do try and use a wee bit of logic.

I haven't whined about your threads the way YOU are constantly whining about other folks' threads. So, no I'm not being inconsistent in posting in your thread. duh.

[Armstead]

45. If he'd stop thumbing his nose at us.....There'd be less thumbing of noses at him /nt

[DJ13]

49. this man we all elected to his office.

The problem many have is that Obama has forgotten who elected him.

He seems to think only the Pete Peterson types were responsible.

[MineralMan]

51. Has he forgotten? I doubt it.`

I think, perhaps, he's very aware of the distribution of the votes that put him into office. Another look at the political bell curve distribution seems appropriate, I think. US Politics are not what some think they are, nor are they what some think they should be.

[rug]

53. Meta is closed.

[Rex]

57. I was told it would not be moved to GD

but it appears that GD is now a hybrid of META and GD.

[MineralMan]

61. Yes, it is, praise be unto Skinner.

This is not a Meta thread.

[Hissyspit]

55. "You can't possibly be critical of him yet."

"He hasn't even finished his cabinet yet."

"It's only been a month!"

"It's only been three months!"

"It's only been six months!"

"Midterms are coming!"

"Wait until his second term!"

"The election is coming!"

"OMG How can you be critical? He's only just started his second term!"

"Second terms are different. Wait and see!"

"Don't criticize him before the midterms!"

"You'll be sorry in 50 years when this plays out!"

Good lord... The Friedman Units updated for a Dem President.

But that's just my opinion. And we all have one. And sometimes they stink.

But that's just my opinion.

[whatchamacallit]

59. ZZZzzzz

[jambo101]

64. Trying to please all the people all the time

As a President of the USA no matter what you do half the people gonna hate you,
Tough job.

[MineralMan]

65. I suspect that being a US President is one of the

most thankless jobs imaginable.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

73. lol

not much of an imagination i suspect...

[Bluenorthwest]

74. Thankless, except for the 400K per, the jumbo jet, the chefs, Camp David,

valets, tailors, the Nobel Prize, adulation of millions. Thankless. We should all have such thankless temp work as that.

[mick063]

66. I worked for him. I donated money to his campaign.

And I have sadly thrown him under the bus.

Green Bay Packer coach, Vince Lombardi, once said, "The harder you work for something, the harder it is to give up." It is very hard for many people to give up on Barak Obama. CPI put me over the top.

He had a chance to become one of our greatest presidents. He blew it. His "transparency" has shown us that he lends an ear to Goldman Sachs more than to people like me. He surrounds him self with such folks for advice. This isn't about legacy anymore. This is about holding on to the few scraps that common folk have.

Obama's legacy will be about giving those scraps to the "owners".

His ideas on SS "adjustment" have put him near the bottom of my list of Democratic Presidents.

[MineralMan]

67. So did I, in both campaigns.

Now, he cannot run again, so my attention is on legislative elections in 2014.

After those are over, I'll begin looking at 2016, but right now, I'm 2014 all the way.

[fadedrose]

69. That's where we all should be.

He needs our help. His heart is in the right place, it always was, and always will be. He just needs some similar thinking people in the Congress...Onward to 2014...

[bluestate10]

75. The crowd that gave us the election of 2000, the election of 2010 and worst of all,

GW Bush and Dick Cheney are clearing their throats for a shot at setting the country back in 2014. Yet, the complain violently about the conditions they caused. Without Nader voters in 2000, we would have no sixteen trillion debt, two wars, 10,000 troops dead and 9/11. Without them sitting on their thumbs in 2010, we would have no republican led House. Fortunately for the country, Independents came to their senses during the 2012 election, without them, we may have a President Romney doing more grievous damage to our nation. Yet the "principled" crowd complain in post after post about the conditions they created. What fucking balls.

[frylock]

76. ...may as well just lie back and enjoy it.

[Rex]

78. Well that is not right! Did you come to the right website!?

Sorry just being purposely obtuse like your post from yesterday!

Brutus had a problem back in Philly, his van broke down and so he will be late.

[cyberswede]

79. Locking.

Sorry, MM, but your first paragraph makes this a post that whines about DU.