Does anyone else have a problem with Schumer/Feinstein leading gun control charge?

[IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ]

As you could probably tell from reading my posts, I oppose gun control. I am a liberal on every issue save for this one. Guns are a tool for racial and sexual minorities to use to protect themselves from the majority. This is why Huey Newton and the Black Panthers carried guns, and this is why Reagan banned concealed carry in California in the 60s: to keep blacks down.

But I digress. My real point is this: Schumer and Feinstein were cheerleaders for the war in Iraq and to hear them talk about banning guns for the children gives me the urge to let out a rueful laugh. Where were these two when Bush was on the verge of sending thousands of our troops off to die and also killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in the process?

Where were they when Israel used white phosphorus on little Palestinian children in Gaza?

Where they when in the 1990s when Ambassador Albright supported brutal sanctions on Iraq that led to half a million dead children? Albright told Lesley Stahl that she thought it was worth it.

So please forgive me if I refuse to fall in line for the gun grabbers. I at least have my morals and the hypocrisy is rank and makes me want to vomit!

Ok, twenty children died at Newtown. How about the many thousands killed in inner cities due to the DRUG WAR. Why is no one talking about the fact that we wouldn't have even half the level of gun violence that we have if we legalized drugs? We are such fucking cowards.

[ZombieHorde]

1. There is a very big difference between firearm confiscation and firearem regulation.

As you could probably tell from reading my posts, I oppose gun control.

If you don't think people taking tours of the White House should be allowed to bring their firearms in, then you support gun control.

If you don't think prisoners should be allowed to have their firearms in their cells with them, then you support gun control.

[IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ]

2. Please

Please don't patronize me and ignore what I said. Those are government property. The regulations being discussed would apply to guns possessed by people on private property. I won't let these two dictate to me that I should be limited to ten bullets in a magazine when my Glock that I have for home protection holds 17 in a standard sized magazine.

You forfeit 4th amendment rights at a border crossing. 2nd amendment rights at an airport. Many, many more are curtailed in prison. This is about self-defense and what people can own. And I noticed you didn't address the hypocrisy outlined in my post, probably because you can't defend it

[ZombieHorde]

5. Ah, now you're talking.

I did not argue against the points in your OP because they were fallacious. The reply to my post actually contains an argument, when combined with the OP. I am not going to defend or attack "gun grabbing" because that is what is being proposed, however, magazine limits are being proposed.

I will not defend or attack Schumer or Feinstein because I don't care about them. Even if they are the biggest hypocrites to have ever lived, that would not mean their proposed policies or arguments are bad. I do care about their proposed policies and arguments, and I will address the argument to restrict magazine size to 10 rounds.

The argument I have seen to restrict magazine size is a mass shooter would have to reload more often, and therefore give people the precious few seconds they need to either run or rush the shooter. Some people can reload a firearm extremely quickly, but this very rare, and its own sport with exceptional players. Most people will need several seconds to reload, and the limit could easily save lives, especially after several years when larger magazines become very difficult to acquire.

[rrneck]

73. I would have to disagree about mag limits.

My own experience indicates that it is quite easy to switch mags in under three seconds, and with minimum practice under two. Anyone sufficiently obsessed with killing a lot of people will have the motivation to acquire the skill to make rapid magazine replacements.

But more to the point, magazine replacement is one of a large range of factors that contribute to the effectiveness of an active shooter and most of those factors are controlled by the shooter. Adjusting the magazine limits on firearms will have little or no impact on the shooter's ability to adjust the time, place, or circumstances of his assault to adjust for those limits.

A mass shooting is just another ambush, and it's effectiveness depends much more on the planning and execution of the ambush than the ammunition capacity of the weapon.

[Hoyt]

36. Heck, the NRA doesn't allow yahoos to pack guns in their building,

gun stores don't allow loaded guns, etc. Why, because they know what kind of fools carry them.

[IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ]

48. And you supported Iraq War enablers

Nt

[Hoyt]

56. Nope, I'm against the right wing, warmongering, bigots at NRA.

[ZombieHorde]

74. "the NRA doesn't allow yahoos to pack guns in their building"

Is that true?

[Hoyt]

77. Nope, nor do they allow them in their conventions. Now NRA does have a range downstairs where

old, right wing bigots go to practice shooting people.

But that is separate from the headquarters where the board members and leadership -- like Ted Nugent, Ollie North, John Bolton, Grover Norquist and other bigots and gun profiteers -- meet. Would you want to be around those arses if they were packing.

[mwrguy]

3. We should support them 100%

Whatever else they did, they are absolutely right to want to get guns off the street.

They don't go far enough, but it'll be a good first step.

[IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ]

4. You won't take my guns

I won't give up any guns that I may or may not have. You'll have to hire more ATF agents to dig holes in every person's backyard.

[mwrguy]

6. You're right, I won't.

I'll leave that to the professionals.

Have fun clinging in your bunker.

[IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ]

9. No, 1%er living in your rich, elitist neighorhood

They won't. If the fed government ever banned guns, there would be a civil war in this country that would make our battles over issues like abortion seem like pattycake.

[mwrguy]

11. Civil war? LOL

A bunch gun-show bubbas are not going to do squat to the US military.

[IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ]

12. Lol!

You can't use the US military against Americans! Posse comitatus. Look it up. Nope, you'd have to enlist the FBI and ATF, and they'd be dealing with many well-armed retired military members.

Look at Iraq 2004-08 for an example of what a well-armed ragtag bunch can do against the US military, and then imagine well-trained military retirees duking it out with overweight AtF and FBI agents.

Man, you really are clueless, aren't you?

[Electric Monk]

35. derp

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1262421

[IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ]

41. Looks like we have a contagious case of herp derp here

Nerdy jokes aside, I lol'd. Yeah, those stupid Black Panthers. They were so stupid to want the right to carry guns to protect themselves from racist whites (many of whom worked for the government).

That chuckle you're exhibiting might be a product of your privileged white upbringing. But hey bro, I'm totally down with your cause! I totally understand your first world problems of the local coffee shop taking seven minutes to make your cappuccino

Solidarity, brother. Steadfastness and solidarity.

[Electric Monk]

45. Interesting assumptions and projection you've got going on

[Lizzie Poppet]

63. They won't have to.

The rank-and-file military would oppose any attempt to forcibly disarm American citizens...and the professional officer's corps (which leans even more strongly to the right than enlisted folk) would almost certainly refuse to issue such orders (or pass them along from politicians higher in the chain of command). The scenario you seem to envision will happen on or about the 35th of Nevervember.

[Lizzie Poppet]

61. You do realize the vast majority of those "professionals" oppose disarming citizens, right?

Might want to keep that in mind...

[Hoyt]

70. So, you really are not "law-abiding". That's been my impression of most gun cultists.

[KoKo]

7. If you WIKI or GOOGLE Feinstein and Shumer so you KNOW

then after doing that you have "A PROBLEM"...then I'd say YES I DO! But I would hope others would read and understand where I'm coming from BEFORE I give my opinion. Just saying.

Google BOTH and then WIKI BOTH. Then Come Back!

[IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ]

10. I don't even know what your post is saying

Read it aloud. What point are you trying to make?
Maybe you should put the entire point in the message body and make it clearer.

[JaneyVee]

8. Nope. No problem with Schumer/Feinstein leading gun control charge. Actually, I think Obama is

leading the gun control charge. The gun culture in the U.S. is WAAAAY out of control. It needs to be tamed.

[IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ]

13. Janey's got a gun

Cept he/she doesn't. What would you do?

[JaneyVee]

16. Ban assault weapons & high cap magazines + fix gun show loopholes & universal background checks.

[IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ]

20. Not going to happen

And if my gun comes standard with a 17 round magazine and is the most common handgun in America then how is a 10 round limit reasonable?

[JaneyVee]

22. I doubt you're psychic abilities.

[IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ]

34. Let me test them:

I predict that you will confuse "your" with "you're."

[JaneyVee]

43. I doubt your ability to understand the definition of psychic.

Must occur previous. Blame the autocorrect. Let me test my psychic abilities: You're going to say something shallow in your next post.

[IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ]

50. You're confusing shallow with sarcastic

And I see that my joke went right over your head. It wasn't meant literally.

[JaneyVee]

55. Nope. Not confusing the two.

[etherealtruth]

14. Not a problem at all

"So please forgive me if I refuse to fall in line for the gun grabbers."

Quite interesting that you chose a term that was coined and promoted by conservatives. Yes, you will see the term "gun nut" bandied about here .. it is a term coined by the left. It "kinda" makes sense that terms used by the political left would be used here .

"How about the many thousands killed in inner cities due to the DRUG WAR. Why is no one talking about the fact that we wouldn't have even half the level of gun violence that we have if we legalized drugs?" If you have read DU for any length of time you would realize this is something important to a large number of us.

"I at least have my morals and the hypocrisy is rank and makes me want to vomit!" ... for this I thank you. It made me laugh out loud.

[IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ]

17. The gun grabbers are just as pathetic as the fetus worshippers

The camps are in the same boat, and you apparently can't handle the fact that someone who supports the Second Amendment is also a liberal.

Well the drug war issue may be important to you but it isn't important to Democratic leadership which has an altogether too cozy relationship with big pharma (whose companies support the drug war).

If you cannot see the hypocrisy in voting to kill children in a foreign country while crying over murder victims then you are a truly sad individual. Do brown children not rate as precious in your book? Do the lives of Iraqi children matter less? The government wasn't responsible for Sandy Hook. Adam Lanza was. The government WAS responsible for the Iraq debacle, and the two senators were huge cheerleaders for it.

[JaneyVee]

19. What an incredibly dumb thing to say.

[IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ]

26. Cause you can't answer my point that it's hypocrisy.

Oh janey. I'm disappointed in you. You can do better. Or maybe not.

[JaneyVee]

29. Your post is full of holes (no pun intended). NO ONE votes to murder people overseas. (Maybe Neocons

Sorry I had to burn your strawman down to the ground.

[IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ]

37. Good job janey!

Oh, except for the fact that they did vote to kill Iraqi children when they supported sanctions that starved them and then voted to kill a few hundred thousand more with the Iraq War.

[JaneyVee]

40. I was talking about the public voting. U.S. Senators job is to protect it's citizens/States.

OTOH, regardless of politicians hypocrisy, we have a gun problem here in America & we ACTUALLY do elect Senators to take on these issues.

[IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ]

46. Well I wasn't talking about the public voting so it

looks like Janey constructed a straw man of his/her own. It's so cute! But it has to be knocked down so I can use it as kindle to prey to my gun god.

I never claimed that Americans voted to kill Iraqis. I said Schumer and Feinstein did. Your attitude seems to be as follows: well, maybe they did, but hey they have some good bills here. It's for the children doncha know? The upper middle class white ones, because that's the only thing that brought gun control back to the forefront.

Good job Janey.

[JaneyVee]

53. Yeah, like gun control is a new idea. You're hilarious. The Wild West had stronger gun control

than we do today. You want to talk about banning guns, there were whole towns where you had to drop your gun off at an armory or sheriff's office before you could even enter town line. There was literally a line in the sand you couldn't cross armed. Whole towns.

[etherealtruth]

44. Thank you, again you made me laugh out loud

I will admit I am extremely annoyed with a couple of 'brown" children, as you call them.

One of them has been breaking his curfew and his grades have slipped. The other is bringing her laundry home from University. Interestingly, I don't think of them as "brown" children, I think of them as my children. (1/2 of their ancestors come from the area now known as Pakistan/Afghanistan) When we actively protested the wars, it was personal.

I have actively sought common ground with some gun enthusiasts here ... not the ones using right wing terminology .... or the ones that "guns" appear to be the tipping point for. I have sought conciliation with the bright and compassionate members here that also have some attachment to guns. With them, I think it is better to agree to disagree on one subject and embrace our common goals.


With you ... your railing is very funny ... I must stop now. You have phrased your post as a personal attack, yet I can't take ignorant ramblings personally.

[Thinkingabout]

15. At least this is two who has taken a stand on reasonable sensible weapons, many others has not.

Have you read the proposals they have made? Or would it be more correct to say you have read and listened to pro gun who are not telling the truth but trying to scare the wits out of those who stop and listen to them and then believe what they hear. Can you find a quote where either has proposed to come and take your guns?

Another question, would you think it would be good for your loved one to be shot down like these kids in Sandy Hook was? This is getting of hand when a person gets 155 rounds in a very short time and when they are aimed at humans. It is not all about you, sometimes you have to place regulations when people are not responsible on their own.

[IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ]

18. Yes I have read them

The Heller decision protects the right of Americans to own commonly owned firearms. Handguns that come standard with magazines holding 17 rounds are some of the most common guns in America, and Heller said that restrictions on ownership of commonly owned guns by law abiding citizens are not reasonable.

You tell me why shouldn't I be able to have a magazine with 17 rounds?

[JaneyVee]

21. Because you're too lazy to carry 2 10 round magazines?

In the time it took Adam Lanza to reload, 11 children escaped Sandy Hook Elementary. Every second counts.

[Duckhunter935]

23. and this is documented where?

I like to be informed.

[JaneyVee]

28. 13th paragraph down.

http://www.courant.com/news/politics/hc-gun-deal-newtown-0413-20130401,0,7341094.story

[markpkessinger]

49. Also here . . .

http://www.ctmirror.org/story/19592/newtown-families-want-strict-ban-large-ammo-magazines

[IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ]

24. Well why not just ban guns altogether then?

That has about as much chance of passing as a high cap magazine ban, and at least it would be more intellectually honest.

Why not limit our magazines to 2 bullets like in Britain? It's not a big inconvenience to carry 8 magazines. Every life counts.

[JaneyVee]

25. Because our country is a Nation of Laws bound by the Constitution.

[IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ]

30. Please stop pretending that you care about the Second Amendment

Some Democrats say that Republicans only care about one amendment to the BofR: the Second Amendment. While I won't dispute that, many Democrats seem to think that there's a blank space between the part discussing separation of church and state and the prohibition of forced quartering of soldiers.

[JaneyVee]

32. Please stop pretending you know my position on anything regarding my beliefs & opinions.

[markpkessinger]

52. And some gun enthusiasts like to pretend . . .

. . . that the first clause of the Second Amendment doesn't exist.

[Thinkingabout]

69. Are you a bad Marksmen then you mightvrequire more rounds.

[limpyhobbler]

27. I believe Mayor Bloomberg is leading the charge on that. nt

[IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ]

31. Really? What state does he represent in the Senate?

Are Feinstein and Schumer not pushing the gun control bills?

[limpyhobbler]

38. Well he's putting money and clout behind it.

To pressure Senators and Reps. He funded a candidate in that Chicago US House Democratic primary and he's likely to target other Democrats in primaries if they don't follow him on the issue. Senators may be leading too, but as far as where the money pressure is coming from on the issue, Bloomberg is also weighing in.

[Lizzie Poppet]

65. Don't you just love it when 1%ers buy the political outcomes they want?

[PeaceNikki]

33. You lost me at "gun grabbers".

You were making a decent case and then you had to throw that in and it was downhill from there.

[PeaceNikki]

42. Oh I see, you weren't actually looking to discuss, just bait and fight.

Have fun with that.

[IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ]

47. No I would like to discuss it

But if the term gun grabber is enough to prevent you from engaging, then clearly you were just looking for an excuse to duck out. It's okay. Take your ball and go home. You can take it outside to play soccer, which is something that some Middle Eastern children can't do because they have to worry about being killed by a drone attack.

I oppose wars that are fought for reasons other than self-defense and I oppose the government using gun violence as an excuse to disarm me. The CIA sold drugs to black neighborhoods and now I have to give up my guns because violence erupted.

[PeaceNikki]

51. I've moved onto the topic of 'gun nuts' hoping to arm fetuses.

[etherealtruth]

54. Oh, the poor pitiful OP author

... has been locked out of his thread.

It is clear that the OP, with great ineptitude and lack of grace and style, was simply looking to argue and launch personal attacks .... not discuss anything.

[PeaceNikki]

59. And he sent me this PM

Note: I didn't even alert on him.

[etherealtruth]

62. I can one up you

He sent an idiotic and nasty PM to me as well

"you are a loser

And an idiot

You haven't seen half the shit that i have man. I'm black and was raised by a single mother. You wanna judge me? Fine. Hypocrite. Overprivileged white liberal who has no clue of the shit I've been through "

Clearly, he has some anger issues. Had he had the desire to discuss vs troll for a fight he might have found many allies

Note: I did alert on his post

[PeaceNikki]

64. These are the very nutcases that should not be armed.

I think his guns should be confiscated posthaste.

[etherealtruth]

67. I know

[PeaceNikki]

66. I hope you alerted on the PM as well.

[etherealtruth]

68. I did

Sadly, the poster seemed to be lashing out at the world.

As I said, I did alert on one of his responses to you.

The poor guy wanted to make this all personal (for him I guess it was), but for the rest of us it was just political opinion.

[PeaceNikki]

71. OP has left the building.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=291405

See ya, asshole! (or rather you'll just see me!!)

[Electric Monk]

78. Good job, MIRT :)

[PeaceNikki]

57. ** DEAR IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ ** I did not alert on any of your posts.

[The Magistrate]

58. However, Ma'am, I Would Suggest You Alert On That Abusive PM....

[PeaceNikki]

60. I did. Here's my reply:

I didn't alert on your post. But this PM is a violation of the terms of service and I alerted on it.

Have a great weekend.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

72. Only in that they're not going nearly far enough.

Repealing the 2nd amendment would save tens of thousands of lives a year in the long term, and thousands even in the short term. Unfortunately, there is no realistic chance of that happening, and campaigning for it would be political suicide.

[Iggo]

75. If you're against it, I'm for it.

How's that.

[Spirochete]

76. Naw

It's about time they did something useful...