President Obama is lengthening the game itself. Think Forever. Not today.

[graham4anything]

President Obama is doing something never done in modern times-He lengthened the game itself

Most people are thinking in 4 to 8 years.

President Obama is thinking forever.

The 8 year thinking is yesterday. The two term thinking is yesterday.

President Obama is thinking, like all the greats, like Lincoln, like FDR, like Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr, like LBJ he is thinking forever.

And it is such a radical idea, because in retrospect, no one ever said it aloud before.
No one ever thought to say it aloud. President Obama is doing it for all of life.

Dr. King did not do what he did, so he could use one bathroom for one time.
Or to sit in one restaurant to get one meal and say he won.

Dr. King did it to last forever.

President Obama is doing that. And I quite believe this has been his vision since before he was President, though he didn't come out and say it.

Quite a few here mock the ropeadope, the chessmatch, the 10 step ahead.

Quite honestly, maybe I sold him a little short. 10step? HELL, its 50 steps ahead.

It is the long time prize.
And in every war, in every battle, sadly there is collateral damage.

But wave on wave on wave on wave on wave on wave
The 100% complete victory only can occur by the battles fought.
Should Dr. King have given up day one when they put the hoses on him?

Dr. King foresaw it all in his "Mountaintop" speech, where he let the world know, this is not a quick or temporary thing, but it is forever all eternity.

Maybe just maybe some can see how truly historic the entire package is.
And maybe just maybe President Lincoln himself had a 500 step ahead plan
and in his plan, he envisioned the hard chocies President Obama has to make to get to the next step

And maybe, just maybe President Lincoln is standing right now, next to President Roosevelt, standing right now next to President LBJ, standing next to Dr. King standing and guarding the back of President Obama.
Maybe he is them. Maybe they are him.

Dot the I's and Cross the T's.
A war is not won in a short period of time. And battles lost are part of any war.

And like Presidents Lincoln, Roosevelt, LBJ and Dr. King, time is not measured in 2 terms as President(and especially not after just months after beginning the 2nd term.)
And yes, that means continuing the legacy of all them with Hillary(or a suitable other if not Hillary) to CONTINUE the legacy of all of those mentioned.

And keep in mind, to win the war, any of the others mentioned did things that many did not like at the time it was done.
All of them are smarter than me.
All of them are a helleva lot smarter than the opposition is.

[HiPointDem]

1. yes, the ruling class plays a long game. nothing new there.

[KittyWampus]

32. the states are using Obamacare to get us all on Medicare. But continue your whinging.

[DemocraticProse]

2. He is a true pragmatist.

On his time at the Harvard Law Review:

"Berenson was one of the conservatives, and in a long, contentious election, his group ultimately supported Obama's candidacy.

"They did that in part because they had a sense that he was more open-minded and would listen to the conservatives, and would value and accept their contributions in a way that some of the other candidates would not," says Berenson, who worked in the George W. Bush White House and is now a member of Romney's justice advisory committee.

The conservatives' intuition turned out to be correct, says Berenson. "He ended up upsetting many more of his colleagues on the far left than those of us who were on the right, in part because the bottom line for him as president of the law review always remained putting out a first-class publication.""

http://www.npr.org/2012/05/22/153214284/obamas-harvard-days-began-with-exclamation-point

[eShirl]

3. OK, so his vision is long. Now, what does he see?

[KittyWampus]

33. Obviously, single payer health care. if you were or are paying attention.

[graham4anything]

4. Ask not the question, what does he see...ask

ask the question

what did
Abraham Lincoln see
what did
FDR see
what did
LBJ see
what did
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.see
what did
Jimmy Carter see

that is the correct question to ask

of course, all of the above had many many many many people deride and attempt to stop them or not understand them. It goes without saying

[eShirl]

5. In other words, you are as mystified as I am.

[graham4anything]

6. I see it clearly.

The thread is not about me.
I said all I need to say in the OP.
If Shakespeare wrote something, Bill himself don't answer in the comments on it.
Gotta go to the healthclub now, wellness.

No longer a Rebel with a 48 ounce straw. Now I think of others who like me.

[eShirl]

7. By all means. Don't let us keep you.

lol

[graham4anything]

12. Keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars

I see from the Tea Party opposition the following
roadblocks
obstruction
nasty, vile
I see Bohner and Mitch as Cujo.
Foaming anger.
I see signs of wanting to burn it down from the Tea Party, but I never hear from those signs, what in tarnation will be there the day after.
Because normally, when someone wants to commit arson, the fire is the part they want to see.
I see that is what the Rand Pauls want.That is what all of them want. To burn it down.
To see it burn.
as the song goes "Fire is the devils only friend".
Some think they can slide back into the 1950s again.
I ask? WHY?
The 50s sucked if one was a minority. If one was a woman.(Doesn't anyone watch Mad Men?
And see how those heroes in suits treated women?) If one was different. If one was Gay.
If one was handicapped.

The 50s had alot of babies born. Then the babies were all spoiled rotten. Given everything they ever wanted (of course, that is a certain type of family when you think about it.
They got GI Joe when he was big!
They got every toy under the sun. They got TV to watch. They got the American dream
they thought.

But not everybody shared in that fantasy Norman Rockwell world that Eisenhower(the original Reagan) lived in.

It took Dr. King many decades/years and LBJ to sign the darned thing.

I see what Frank Rich saw right around the time of the issue'd'week in 2009
I see Frank Rich was 100% correct then. I see nothing changed from that.


What did my grandparents saw when in the worst of times, in Austria, when they had to take my mother a young girl at the time, and her brother and the others with them, out of their mansion they owned and leave all material items behind, when they had to give up everything, when they and millions of others made a journey
And they saw hate, and Cujo and all
And they never whined.
And they rebuilt from the bottom up.

And they went on. While so many of their friends didn't because of Hitler.

Now, what does Jackie Robinson see when it was two years before he made history?
Should Jackie Robinson have given up the first day someone spit at him and called him names?

Should Neil Armstrong have said, are you nuts, walking on the moon?

All this negativity is 100% backward.

I see what Barack Obama sees, though he sees it better because he is smarter.

I see what Casey Kasem said was true after all
"Keep Your feet on the ground, and keep reaching for the stars"
It was corny hearing him say it. And I was never a big fan of his.
I liked more when Cousin Brucie counted it down decades earlier.
But Casey's slogan is so true.

One issue does not make a future.
The future is made up of everything and everyone.
Because issues change.

[Bluenorthwest]

25. "Brevity is the soul of wit" William Shakespeare

nt

[Hekate]

44. KnR again

what can I say?

My life has presented me with more than one Austrian (including my late MIL) who fled the Anschluss and everything they knew, and lived to tell the tale. (I have asked myself, would I know when to jump?) And yes, they started all over again, from the ground up. Kept going.

[pipoman]

9. I've read Shakespeare..

Graham, you are no Shakespeare...LOL

[Autumn]

21. Do you really need a law saying you can't drink a 48 ounce soda?

[Marr]

80. Ok. You got me. Brilliant satire.

...

Please say this is satire.

[pipoman]

8. Awesome!

I feel so much better now that I know SS reductions, and drone attacks are part of a grand vision leading to prosperity and green meadows for all of us....whew..

[Skittles]

51. STOP IT PIPOMAN

[pipoman]

59. Not really sure where long rants like this originate...

oh, wait...

[Skittles]

60. heehee

[Armstead]

10. Being 62, I've seen the "long view" in action over the last 30 years

We're in worse shape now than we even were during the economic hard times in the 70's.

Back then there was still a middle class, and more democracy and actual economic competition and controls on corporate power and a safety net.

Now corporations have us by the "short and curlies," the middle class is being decimated, the elites are entrenched into a true class system......etc.

And the fucking thing about it is that "Centrist" Democrats like Obama were just as responsible as the GOP for creating this mess.

[graham4anything]

14. with all due respect

Believe me, my grandparents & mother kicked out in Austria because they were Jewish
found life a helleva lot tougher as did the others that were lucky enough to even be given a chance somewhere else, instead of dying in the gas chambers.(along with the tens of millions of others who died or lost everything during WW2)

and the troops on the beach off of France, wave on wave to secure victory, they went in and achieved the goal, all of them, though most on both sides didn't make it.
and they had not one second to complain and give up.
Same with those in the proverbial Steinbeck Dust Bowl days.

Actually, 1977-1978 were the single happiest times America ever had.
Til AIDS struck.
Then a generation of great people died. Would venture to guess, as the outbreak hit NY and California the hardest, most of them liberal.
At just the same time the Reagan youth came about.And those that turned Carter down, because he did not go in and shoot them up, they all came out alive.

1977-1978 everyone was starting to feel free, and love was in the air.

Then they took Jimmy Carter down, and foolish democratic voters voted for Reagan.
and took us thousands of years backwards.
And like 1968, misguided fracture in the party. Tis a shame.
Because both Ted and Bobby could have been President. Just not in 1968 for Bobby.
But in 1972 and 1976, and ironicly, Ted could have been in 1980 and 1984
(though the same naysayers wouldn't have wanted either of them or JFK, because they would have cried NO DYNASTY as Kennedy's father already wanted to be President long before them).

Isn't it ironic?

Life isn't a Norman Rockwell White Picket Fence Painting 99% of the time.(Ironically speaking).

[Armstead]

29. With all due respect, I fricking know that

the late 70's were probabkly the happiest times for me personally. The ciurcumstances of my own life were great, and I was in the time of life called the "salad days"

But in the larger picture life was pretty shitty -- stagflation, first energy crisis....Disco

I do not have any glossy views of the past. Nor is life all bad now. depends on what level you look.

However, our political/economic system is far worse than it was in term,s of concentrations of power and wealth, the decimation of the middle class, a thoroughly awful GOP and a Democratic party far less committed to the ideals of people like LBJ and Humphrey (apart from their own Achilles heel of Vietnam).

[graham4anything]

30. I have mellowed toward disco

Always like the Bee Gees, but now, Donna Summer and Barry White and Chic and the others sound better than they did to me back then.
At least they weren't auto-tuned back then.

The energy problem was (if I recall the timeline) directly because of the hostages.

Maybe if the democratic party had stopped back then tearing down the great names
(like HHH and LBJ) and had Al Gore not pushed Bill out of the picture in 2000, even Ralph Nader wouldn't have hurt.

Once Nixon and Bush and Reagan saw how easy it was to tear LBJ down in 1968, it made it easy for them to rip Carter down.

Why any democratic person voted for Reagan, I don't know.
And in the scheme of things, Bill would have been able to run left if the times were different.

And in 1992, I voted for Jerry Brown not Bill. Racism after Jerry said he would take Jesse Jackson as his vp ended that dream.

A president don't live in a world where he has the dictatorship power.
It takes all the others.

Surest way to get rid of the worst in congress, is to get in the oncoming years a major majority (and not say it can't be done. Yes, it can be done).
Then once you have that, one can primary out the bad ones. But not until that date.

The fight is longterm.

The dream lives on only if the democratic party remains as president, and can name the SCOTUS needed to make it permanent.(which we all thought it was after FDR and LBJ.
But even FDR, in 2013, would have not had it easy against this group of obstructionists.

And there is something else unsaid-
a President can say the most extreme things-however, if the first two or three get voted down, then the president loses his ability to later get things done.
So just because it isn't brought to a vote, doesn't mean President Obama don't want it.
It means he knows it couldn't get passed, so best not now to try it (single payer for instance) and then get it later on when the repubs can't obstruct it.(NO they did NOT have a super majority at that time anyhow.

[Skittles]

53. THANK YOU ARMSTEAD

I'm tired of being told I am not seeing or experiencing what I am clearly seeing and experiencing

[hobbit709]

11. I still want to know what drugs are you taking that give you these delusions?

Because it's certainly nothing I ever took.

[JHB]

19. I'm wondering if this is someone's idea of performance art.

[hobbit709]

27. If it is, it's not very good performance art.

[Dragonfli]

48. I've maintained that all along and this is one of his best interactive installations to date!

One of his better pieces.

His true genius lies in how he transforms the perception of a space, not in the physical realm of objects and geographic places as is the norm, but rather in virtual space, and even, within the mind itself. Inspiring!

[Fumesucker]

68. Called that months ago

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2162740

[Teamster Jeff]

13. What battle has Obama Fought?

[green for victory]

15. Yay Lincoln: The First (3rd party) Republican ever elected!

Not too often this poster praises Republicans, let alone 3rd party (R)'s.

I've talked to some Democrats that think Lincoln was a (D). It's hilarious.

[graham4anything]

16. The world knows Lincoln was a republican and that LBJ had to contend with Wallace

and the Dixiecrat part of the party which included all the John Birch Society Associates
(the same ones of course that are today's David Duke affeciandos who is BFF with Ron Paul and his family).

You know, I am beginning to think LBJ was #2 after Lincoln. He was the truest populist America ever had as President, and the one furtherst Liberal. A true visionary on the homefront domestic social issues.

Damn that Eisenhower and his war he started(though it wasn't a war when he started it. Eisenhower is in the bottom 5 in my book).

[Poll_Blind]

17. Be well. nt

PB

[ananda]

18. Love that long game excuse when..

.. so many people are suffering and dying now.

[graham4anything]

35. Millions died in WW2 before the US after way too long entered.

How many slaves died or suffered while Thomas Jefferson loudly proclaimed "All men are equal"
(like him that had slaves) and not included women or any minority or slave.

If FDR ran for President in 2008, he would not have been able to hide his handicap like he did.
My guess is McCain would have made sure to not have FDR elected due to that.

And, what do you mean dying? People die every day. People are born every day.

Who exactly is dying?

Hitler killed 20 million in the gas chambers, 6 million just because of their religon.

In what world does no one die?
that is over the top.

BTW, don't know if you noticed, but actually the economy is moving up.
And unemployment is less than it has been since 9-11.

Don't forget 3000 people died and the event caused the bankruptcy (whcih is what OBL really wanted, to kill the economy).

Life isn't a vaccum.

BTW, what about the social issues?
Gay Marriage is about to be a reality.
A women is about to become President in 4 years.

Watching 42 put things in persepctive, so clearly.

It took 100 years from Lincoln to LBJ and another 50 after for a black president.

Ronald Reagan let millions die from AIDS before waking up.
Now AIDS is a liveable disease if one takes the meds.

Stem cell was impossible while Bush was president.

the repubs want to do away with abortion.
President Obama does not.

so...
99% of everybody voted to go into Afghanastan.
Iraq was a mistake.But dems have never been pacifists.

And FDR should have entered the war years earlier. Pearl Harbor gave him the excuse to do the right thing.
But a few years earlier could have saved millions and millions.
Maybe it's because I am Jewish, but it is true.

[Hekate]

46. I think you are writing free verse today, graham

Maybe the one who said you're not Shakespeare wanted a sonnet.

Keep on keeping on, graham.

[graham4anything]

47. As Paul Simon sang "Silence like a cancer grows"

[Arctic Dave]

20. LOL.

It's now 1,000,000 dimesional chess.

Try to make him look better by putting his name next to people that actually fought DURING their presidencies, that is sad.

Unlike him who leads from the rear, "for the future", fifty years from now. That is quite the crystalball he has.

[woo me with science]

22. +100000 The very BEST liberal, prosperous futures

occur WAAAAAAAAY in the future...

The implementation of a corporate authoritarian state is a very important part of the long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long. long, long journey toward that goal.

We can't tell you people with limited smartness why, though. It's a secret.

[jsr]

23. In the long run, we are all dead

[Wounded Bear]

24. Going for the....

one liner sound bites per post record, I see.

Good luck with that.

[Zorra]

26. Will he be canonized as a Democrat or a republican? nt

[graham4anything]

36. Is Lincoln idolized by republicans or democratic folk?

Is Lincoln idolized by republicans or democratic folk?

Do people go to DC to see the monuments based on what party they are in?

We are ALL Americans here.

Immigration reform(hopefully quick 11 million new citizens) happening on President Obama's watch.

I don't recall Bush doing this. He wanted to put up walls, not bridges.

And who was George Wallace canonized by?
If you recall(if you are old enough)
It took LBJ getting republican votes to pass the voting rights/civil rights acts

Because of George Wallace's racist dixiecrats(which are akin to Ron Paul and his BFF David Duke and both had the backing of the John Birch Society.

[MrMickeysMom]

28. None of those others mentioned (FDR, for certain)...

ever reached the level of pandering over and over and over to all the corporatists, like Mr. Obama has.

That is for sure.

[Orsino]

31. Or he's just trying to reach various deals with the GOP.

This is a Democratic president on the ropes, for sure. A Dem driven to advocating for SS cuts? Pitiful.

I do understand that he's dealing with an almost thoroughly corrupt Congress, but what we're seeing here isn't the stuff of which battle hymns are made.

[Safetykitten]

34. Oh. My. God.

[Skittles]

54. sometimes it's so over the top ridiculous

it makes you wonder, ya know?

[Egalitarian Thug]

58. Just think "Plan 9 From Outer Space", and it suddenly takes on a whole new slant. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. Uh..LBJ lost his "little" war because of his hubris of "thinking ahead".

He thought he could score political points by looking tough on Communism and got his cowboy hat handed to him along with his forever lasting reputation as a war criminal.

[graham4anything]

39. Foolish in that LBJ would have beaten Nixon. Nothing else mattered

Losing was not an option back then

If it was, why did the space program loom so important.

Winning was being first on the moon.

The war issue, worked.
It got Nixon and the Bush's in office.

What is funny is that millions hated Lincoln
Millions hated FDR
Millions hated LBJ
Millions hate Obama

The greats all had haters in equal numbers

The Bush's win by hate.

If you think tearing down Hillary and President Obama will do anything but get Jeb Bush
then you don't realize-
Elizabeth Warren needs 100% of those Clinton/Obama voters were she, for some reason to be the nominee.
Otherwise, all she would attain is Dukakis/Mondale/McGovern/McCarthy status.
not one of them came close to winning.

LBJ was the single most liberal, progressive president of all time.
No one else came close.
Til now.

BTW, LBJ is the #2 or #3 best president of all time.
Social issues matter.
They are the one and only thing people can change.

the other stuff will always be there. It has been there since the T-Rex's fought each other.
And the cavemen fought each other.
And they will be there years later.

Because in real world, there are bad people and war will always be.

Look how many people died before FDR was able to find an excuse to do something.
Millions could have been saved if the war was entered a few years early

EVERYONE could have been saved if a drone was dropped on Hitler before the first died.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

50. So, do you consider LBJ a "good" person for engineering the deaths of millions?

How's that for a "social program"? How's that for being "liberal"?

[graham4anything]

64. Are you a fan of Nixon's? Because Nixon was the direct beneficiary of LBJ not running.

LBJ would have beaten Nixon.

Everybody plays the game.
Nixon played it better than HHH

LBJ would have played it better than Nixon.

I follow the serenity thingy-
I accept the knowledge that wars have been fought since Day one of the Dinosaurs, and will be fought til the last day of the universe.


Not having LBJ in the race got us Nixon.
So there were only 2 choices- LBJ or Nixon. My vote was with LBJ.

And, btw, as it was Eisenhower's baby, why not have done more to elect Adlai Stevenson in 1952? (those who voted then made it quite clear they liked Ike.
I myself liked Ike about as much as Margaret Thatcher. ZIPPO).He was the first Ronald Reagan.

Ronald Reagan in effect, killed a million of people who developed AIDS while he cared nothing and did nothing.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

72. Other than not answering the question, LBJ could have beaten Nixon is laughable.

LBJ didn't drop out because he was on the path to victory in '68.

It's revealing thought, that you see the deaths of millions, as just "part of the game".

[graham4anything]

74. another of these circular arguements. I said all I wish to say in the OP.

and it is true.
80-20.

Team Obama and Team Clinton will crush everybody.
Standing side by side with Dr. King, LBJ, FDR, Jimmy Carter (nobody died on his watch, yet he too had haters), Lincoln and the others.

[premium]

73. LBJ was not going to win against Nixon,

LBJ was tied closely to a very unpopular war, Nixon, OTOH, promised to end the war and bring the troops home.
LBJ was a smart politician and knew when to fold his cards.

[winter is coming]

38. People can be distracted by shiny things, but polished turds still smell. n/t

[loyalsister]

40. Universal pre-school and $10 minimum wage that increases with inflation are both long view ideas

that will truly make a difference.
Preventative healthcare will make a huge difference in the long term. Maybe we will finally be as healthy as Cuba.

Mapping the human brain leads to better treatment for Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Epilepsy, mental illness. It will also help the returning soldiers who have had TBIs. What that means for aging baby boomers is that their ageing experience will be better than has been.

Suppose we had information that would help improve the learning tools for Learning Disabilities, Autism, even students who do not have impairments? And many more possibilities.

Do people here understand that CCPI can be undone before it even kicks in?

[TheKentuckian]

45. "We'll fix it later" is perhaps the ultimate, failsafe lie of the Turd Way.

Fixed NAFTA yet? How about Welfare deform? Look at all the fixing later public education will require. When is that public option coming? Where is that bill to eliminate the anti-trust exemption? When is the retirement age going down from 67?

No more "we'll fix it later" until some of the backlog is cleared away. It is an excuse so phony that it is functionally a lie.

If we were going to fix it later then we wouldn't be doing it now despite knowing better all around.

[Arctic Dave]

55. +1

It has become religion now.

You will get yours on the other side. Trust us.

[TheKentuckian]

41. "The long game" aka Turd Way newspeak for the screwing we are doing to you today

will pay off in a time you never will see and any lack of progress or even movement in the opposite direction of the goal observed even over decades is the plan coming together, don't you worry.

Here in reality, more often than not the expression is a call to inaction and faith in the powerful to make the world right...eventually but only if they have a free hand and don't ask no questions.

HAVE FAITH! Looks wrong or counter productive? Your normal peasant brain is too small and you need to have faith.

[Jamaal510]

82. Bush ll already screwed the country over

long before Obama got in. Obama isn't perfect--no politician is, but at least under his administration, there have been over 30 consecutive months of job growth and the economy is (slowly) recovering, OBL is dead and the Iraq War is over, there's the Fair Pay Act for women, the repeal of DADT, and health care reform. Even with a more "progressive" President, we'd likely still be in the same situation as long as the R's are in Congress, blocking legislation.
Moderate Democrats are not the problem; it's the GOP.

[Hekate]

42. KnR. It is a long, long road, and the Far Right has been strategizing for over 40 years

Why did so many on our side think this would be easy?

"The 'war' will be over by Christmas. We'll be greeted with flowers and candy." What bullshit.

Victory is hard work, and it is not always clear in any one moment if you are going to attain it. The Far Right has put in the hard work and has a vision -- why the hell can't the Left do the same?

[Dragonfli]

49. Bravo! One of your best installations to date! I think you are an artistic genius,

The genius of your art is not that it is interactive, that's impressive but not unique.

Your true genius lies in how you transform the perception of a space, not in the physical realm of objects and geographic places as is the norm, but rather in virtual space, and even, within the mind itself.

Inspiring!

[Bonobo]

52. I switched it up a bit for some variety...

I usually enjoy these with a bleu cheese dressing but this time I tried a balsemic vinegar-based dressing. The bite from the balsemic contrasted nicely with the oblique obscurity of the non-sequitors and the garlic set off the bitterness, highlighting the apparent depth but actual vapidity of the text.

[Dragonfli]

56. .

I hope it never stops and keeps evolving.
I actually look forward to the art and culinary delights that come with it.

[JDPriestly]

57. Are you applauding Obama for continuing the legacy of Clinton

and Reagan and the Bush's, the legacy of raising taxes under the guise of insuring Social Security benefits for the baby boomers. promising that if Baby Boomers just paid those taxes, their Social Security benefits would not be cut?

The legacy of Clinton, Reagan and the Bush's just taking the money the baby boomers paid in for their retirement and spending it on their addiction to war?

The legacy of those presidents wasting and losing tons of money in Iraq, on the invasion of Grenada and Panama, etc., all the while borrowing from Social Security, spending down the reserves in the Social Security Trust Fund while cutting the capital gains taxes of the 1% - 5%?

Is that the legacy you are talking about?

Is it the legacy in which seniors on Social Security get benefit cuts while the rich pay lower taxes than prior to the Bush administration?

Wow! Is that a legacy that Obama should be proud of continuing?

I don't think so.

Reinstate the capital gains taxes and restore the Social Security Trust Fund and then drop the cuts to Social Security and the COLAs. No chained CPI.

[graham4anything]

62. Excuse me, which candidate is doing that in 2016? Please be specific.

Talking about Nov. 2016.
Which of the two candidates will be doing so, and which one got your vote?
Or are you running yourself for say the house and working for your angle from within like Ralph Nader should have done in 2000 and thought smaller to attain larger.

I already voted proverbially. I like early voting, and my vote is locked in.
That way a gotcha in a debate isn't changing my mind like so many who loved Reagan's scripted stupid line about "there you go again".
and Jimmy was voted off the island.

Damn shame that so many thought so quickly about tossing him.

I didn't.

There never should have been a primary challenge in 1980. NEVER.
It was a colassal mistake of epic proportions. Just like 1968 was.


Bill Clinton did the very best in a rancid atmosphere, that he could given the tools he was handed after 12 years of the worst America ever served up.

Hillary Clinton is going to do even better, because what she will be handed is already a million times better.

feel free to disagree, this is a political debate chat board, and I am not an echo chamber.
Just joe nobody.

[JDPriestly]

63. I'm going to wait and see. But I will not vote for Hillary.

Read this and you will know one of the reasons.

Hillary will mean more of Rubinomics. That's not something I will vote for.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/04/12/obamas-cat-food-social-security-reform/

[graham4anything]

65. So I guess you will vote for Jeb. As he is going to be running vs. Hillary

Now, tell me that makes any sense.

But then of course, many voted for Reagan in the first place, over Carter.

WHY?????

BTW, who did you vote for (or would have?)

Adlai vs. Ike?

[JDPriestly]

81. There will be other choices. I've only ever voted for a Democrat, but

I will not vote for Hillary. Might as well have a Republican. Really.

[waddirum]

61. This reads like some quasi-religious hagiography

President Obama is a mortal like anyone else. I hope he ends up being a transformative President, but I'm not about to genuflect in the midst of this Social Security CCPI bullshit.

[Marr]

79. That tone is creeping in more and more, isn't it?

Did you read the one the other day... can't recall who the poster was, I'm afraid, but-- anyway. She just kept repeating, "he has a plan... I trust him 100%". Over and over. That was the response to just about everyone.

Rather disturbing.

[cali]

66. You're projecting what you wish to be true onto the President

I don't see you as remotely insightful, and pretty much this is a disjointed pep rally op.

[graham4anything]

67. There are two and only two choices in 2016. Jeb is one of them.

BTW, I gotta thank Ralph Nader for something

I thank Ralph Nader in 2000 for one and only one thing-
making sure what he did in 2000 will NEVER EVER be a viable option again for the democratic party or any democratic voter. Thanks Ralph!!! You and only you did that. You insured you could never do again what you did to us then.
There is NO third choice and you all have Ralph Nader to thank for it!

Is anyone going to be foolish enough to vote for a third party ticket with Rand Paul's name on it?

President Obama's agenda will continue.
Or Jeb Bush will be President.
The choice is clear.

Because at the end of the day, the 2016 nominee needs 90% of all core Hillary and Obama voters to vote for the nominee. Without them they are Dukakis and McGovern.

yes, this is my opinion, but the stats tell the story.

Just for a laugh ponder this-
What if, let's say,you did achieve the goal of not having hillary.
Who do you think might secure the nomination?
Be careful what you wish for, because it might not be the persons you envision.
There is a certain certain that comes to mind that has the wherewithal to secure the nomination should he choose, but he won't. But he could. He wouldn't run against Hillary.
But he would run if he could win. He has the financing to do it.
Be careful what one wishes for.

I myself will 100% vote for the name on top of the Democratic ticket in 2016.
In stone. It will not change.

[cali]

69. bzzt. wrong. yet again. ever frickin' hear of primaries?

[graham4anything]

71. Hillary is going to win no matter which scenerio when she runs.

If it's just Hillary and Joe having a nationwide chat, Hillary wins.
If there are 40 others and Hillary and Joe, there is no time, no room and no way any of the others get any funding or traction for a hopeless cause.

Before Obama entered the race in 2008, I forecast how Hillary would win.
Obama used the strategy I forecast for Hillary.

Hillary can use the same strategy, and the more people on stage, the more votes.
If no one is on stage, the more votes.

People love Hillary. People love President Obama. People love Joe Biden.

They don't know anyone else, nor will anyone else have the wherewithal to break through.

In fact, probably Hillary and Obama knew what was going to be in 2007.
Because it works out so much better this way.

The one great thing is, President Obama has NO ego.
He has a plan and is doing everything with the foresight for that plan.
Because he is a person who cares about every single minority group and those who don't see it, have underestimated President Obama always.

And having the popular populist Joe Biden with them was another stroke of genius.
It was so, so so so much better that Hillary was SOS and not VP.
And it's so so so so so so so much better than Hillary is going after President Obama, because with this 75 step ahead foresight, President Obama can be nominated to the US Supreme Court (he is young enough for the court) and continue to get his agenda forever in stone.

And Hillary can lead far from the left of Bill, becuase it will be so much easier with a much bigger better congress.

Not to mention SCOTUS.

You see, it is all part of that plan.

President Obama assures himself of his 8 years, his being on the court after that forever,
and for Michelle, who don't forget, is his #1 asset, and the most popular democratic person alive (and most popular woman along with Hillary).

This is going to last forever!

And, btw, if those people start going negative on Hillary on stage, well, Hillary knows that, and it will be used to her advantage.

Because, Hillary and President Obama's fans know there is hatred against them.

President Obama won the major landslide and won a landslide.
Bill Clinton won two terms.

I mean, this thing is forever. And it's going to happen.

So, whether it is just Hillary and Biden having nice chats nationwide, or whether there are 40 others along with Hillary and Biden, either way works out quite nice.

Now, if Hillary weren't to run...but that is another story.
Again, be careful what one wishes for.
They got LBJ out in 1968 and got Nixon in return.
Had Bobby not died, they still would have gotten HHH vs. Nixon, and the outcome still would be the same. Most people did not think the powers that be in the smoke filled rooms would have nominated anyone but HHH. It was nice to dream otherwise, however, reality back then of the smoke filled rooms said different.

[premium]

76. I think I'm beginning to understand something here,

you're personal friends of .........., and they've let you in on "THE PLAN".

[whatchamacallit]

75. Your second to last statement is proved right

by all the rest.

[sheshe2]

77. K&R!

[Marr]

78. The Bush Administration insisted they couldn't be judged in the present, too.

The message was the same as this: trust me. And shut-up.