Hatred - should it exist in a civilized society?

[TimberValley]

Hatred of people is one of the quickest and easiest of human emotions, it seems. Yet it seems also that the more civilized a society is, the more it ought to leave this particular emotion behind it.


Some hold the view that hatred - of anyone or anything - should not exist. Some others hold the view that hatred is fine, as long as it is of a certain category of people. And unfortunately, I think there is a lot of hatred that goes on at DU.


Is hatred (of people) an inherently bad thing in and of itself?


Does hatred mean "stooping to the level of those who hate?" If Person A hates Person B because B is a hater, does that make A any better? Or should some people rise above the level of others and not hate others even if others are hating?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Hatred is almost always an outgrowth of fear.

When people stop fearing they'll stop hating.

[TimberValley]

3. I think it's more about resentment or irritation than fear.

Plenty of people hate things they aren't afraid of - such as drivers who cut off others in traffic, or someone who has a really annoying personality.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. That's not hate; that's momentary annoyance.

When I think of hate I think of racism, sexism, that sort of thing - where people dislike others to the point that they wouldn't mind seeing them killed, or at least removed, for no reason other than because of who they are. I don't hate the rude driver who cuts me off at an intersection, or the co-worker who hums off-key to himself all day, or the rude sales clerk at the drugstore. I am irritated by them during my interaction with them, then I forget about them completely unless they've done me some actual harm. If, however, the sales clerk at the drugstore is black (for example), and I don't want to interact with her only for that reason, that's hate. And ultimately that sort of hate comes from fear - fear of people who are "different," fear that those people will somehow affect one's life negatively; fear that they will take something away.

[chervilant]

2. Holding on to hate

is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die.

[rrneck]

4. If that civilized society has people in it, there will be hate. ntt

[HappyMe]

7. I agree.

As long as there are humans - there will be hate.

[darkangel218]

11. Hate can be overcomed by rational thoughts.

Hate is a mare psychological reaction which should be short lived and overcomed.

IMO.

[rrneck]

14. Generally speaking that's true.

But hate has evolutionary value. We don't have to hate much now because we're so rich. When resources become scarce again the way they're supposed to be, hate will become more important again.

[Cleita]

16. Huh, what tells you resources are supposed to be scarce?

The only reason they become scarce is because a few are hogging them all up. There's plenty to go around if you don't have 10% owning 90% of the resources.

[rrneck]

30. I think we were designed to struggle against s scarcity.

We don't know how to manage abundance. We're very good at exploiting though.

Empire and prudent resource management are pretty much mutually exclusive.

[Cleita]

31. Nonsense. Traditional tribal societies do quite well at exploiting and

managing resources and making sure everyone in the tribe gets a fair share. It's our hierarchical society that allows a few to take everything from the many. We have the tools and the knowledge. Now we have to get the leadership to use those tools and knowledge.

[rrneck]

32. We are not a traditional tribal society.

We are the latest iteration of a series if expansions empires that began thousands of years on the hilly flanks in what is now Iraq.

We hoard resources for the same reason our bodies store fat. If either one of us were really dedicated to sustainability we wouldn't be blathering about it thousands of miles apart on the internet.

[Cleita]

33. But we are still the same species, so we have it in us to do better. n/t

[rrneck]

34. Maybe. I would like to think so. nt

[hifiguy]

21. Rational thought is very powerful

but it requires hard work. And a lot of people are too stupid or too lazy to be able to engage in rational thought.

There are people I hate - banksters, greedhead capitalist exploiters, abusers of children or animals. the persecution-oriented religulous. Anyone who deliberately inflicts cruelty for the sake of doing so is worthy of hatred. Its a question of self-preservation in some instances.

[Cleita]

5. I find it childish and any adults who indulge in it

are emotionally immature. When you hate, you don't listen to reason. I'm not saying you have to love everyone, far from it and there are plenty of people I don't like and some who have done me harm whom I really don't like. I feel to hate them though is lessening my humanity. Even animals don't hate us when we do bad things to them. They will either fear us or accept any conciliatory gestures we might have toward them if we have harmed them, but they don't hate us.

[WinkyDink]

24. How high on the evolutionary scale is "condescension"?

[Cleita]

25. Who cares? This isn't a discussion about evolution.n/t

[Common Sense Party]

6. Don't take away my hate.

It's all I have.

[darkangel218]

8. oo ok :/

[nolabear]

9. Civilization doesn't stop emotions. It helps us live together in spite of and in line with them.

We all have the capacity to hate, but we also need one another in order to thrive. And we like and make good use of one another. Civilization, according to Freud, who was sometimes a smart guy, enables us to work together and thrive at the expense of being able to be mean, selfish, combative, unhealthily promiscuous (i.e. without any caution whatsoever), not to crap where we eat, etc. But it comes at a cost. We can carry it so far we become dry as dust, paralyzed, isolated in our inability to be okay with a normal amount of disagreement, or we can sublimate the aggression into an aggressive form of egalitarianism.

[hifiguy]

22. Very well said!

[cali]

12. oh I know. let's just soma people!

I think it's utterly absurd to postulate that a civilized society leaves hate behind. What a civilized society does is to attempt to make actions rooted in hate unacceptable. some of those actions can be punished legally. Others can censured by the society at large.

I do think hatred of other people is inherently a bad thing, in large part because of what it does to the hater.

But a lot of what you see on DU isn't hatred of people so much as it is anger and hatred of what those people do.

I'm also not entirely convinced that you can hate someone you don't know.

[cbdo2007]

13. Well, according to the Bible - the first person born on Earth killed the second person born...

on Earth (Cain and Abel) out of jealousy, so there will always be violence, hatred, jealousy, killing, etc. Love and hate are the most basic human emotions.

[Cleita]

17. Please don't bring the Bible into a discussion that is supposed to be rational.

It's mythology and not a valid premise to prove a fact.

[cbdo2007]

18. You missed the point.

[Cleita]

20. Okay, explain to me what I missed?

If it was just a metaphorical story, I'll go with that. But it's still not valid to prove a premise because whatever the originator of the story believed three thousand years ago about human nature was just his opinion and there is no proof from outside sources that his belief is irrefutable fact.

[cbdo2007]

28. Why are you so concerned with "facts" when the OP brought up such an abstract

subject??

The point of the Cain and Abel story in this context is that the most important and influential book in all of human civilization basically starts out with the first person born on Earth killing the second person born on Earth out of jealousy. Whether you believe The Bible to be truth or not, when you look at our world today, it is completely ridiculous to not factor into to a discussion about love/hate good/evil the stories and ideas that have shaped our culture.

FYI, The Bible didn't make any sense to me growing up and learning that all of these wacky stories were true, but when I wised up and started reading it in a more abstract sense without literal meaning, the stories actually became a lot more relevant and meaningful.

[Cleita]

29. It's only an important and influential book to those who practice the Abrahamic

religions and that is hardly all of human civilization. It has nothing to do with explaining hate in the psychology of humans. I don't mean to jump on you but I get tired of certain religions being dragged into every conversation to explain things. Many of us don't practice the biblical religions.

[Warpy]

15. The question is what a rational society should do about it

since some people will always take the easy route and hate groups rather than behaviors.

[kentuck]

19. Merle Haggard has an opinion:

[WinkyDink]

23. I think you scuttled your argument with the term "human emotions."

[datasuspect]

26. haters and biters

they sure do keep one on their toes.

[woo me with science]

27. I think the point is that it should not be stoked, inflamed, made inevitably worse

by the structure of the society we build.

This country has more than enough to free all of us from much of the terror and rage we live with every day. More than enough to make sure that nobody has to live in terror and anger and competition for food, shelter, and medical care.

Yet our government chooses to keep us in a state where we must compete with one another constantly for our very survival. We are constantly divided against each other and taught to hate and dehumanize each other instead of caring for one another. We are steeped in very sick propaganda every day that celebrates war, celebrates meanness and competition, dehumanizes the poor and other vulnerable groups, and rationalizes the indefensible in terms of policy and government.

I think the greatest fear of the corporate oligarchy is that we might, someday, cast aside the manufactured fear and division and hatred they constantly stoke for us, and come together, instead, to insist on a more loving structure and priorities for our society.