This is internal terrorism

[nadinbrzezinski]

Do not let the RW take control of this...see they are foreign. A couple kids who grew up in the US is internal.

Realize they will try to say...no immigration bill.

Now, what these two might prove is one of the FBIs nightmares, of kids getting radicalized.

But please, this is internal...and I hope they catch this kid...we need motives

[Zax2me]

3. What?

[HappyMe]

5. What difference does that make?

I don't think anybody really cares what the NRA has to say about this.

[liberalmuse]

9. I think this person is wondering...

if the brothers are/were members of the NRA.

[HappyMe]

13. I don't think that membership

or non-membership in the NRA matters here at all.

[oldhippie]

53. Of course it does .......

If they were NRA members, we have justification to vilify the NRA even more than usual. Why pass up that opportunity?

[JBoy]

10. Oh FFS.

The NRA are assholes, but that's ridiculous.

Maybe they had egg mcmuffins every morning at McDonalds. Funny how McDonalds hasn't said they didn't.

[nolabear]

22. Flame bait? Let it lay there, folks.

[premium]

35. WTF does that have to do with anything?

Maybe you should have stayed lurking.

[premium]

50. Here's the thing,

you don't have to be american to join the NRA, that said, who gives a shit if they're NRA members?
It has nothing to do with this incident.

[HappyMe]

54. I think that the FBI and the

other authorities can establish this without the stupid NRA.

[jpak]

65. The NRA sucks - internal, external - anyway you like it

yup

[jpak]

64. The NRA allowed them to arm with ease

yup

[we can do it]

73. Riiiiiiight. and I'm a pink bunny

[Zax2me]

2. Islamic terrorism, to be most accurate.

Two law enforcement officials said they believe there is a “Chechen connection” to the bombings. In the last several months, Tamerlan Tsarnaev had posted videos to YouTube indicating his interest in radical Muslim ideologies.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/massive-police-operation-under-way-in-boston/2013/04/19/979ec6dc-a8c6-11e2-a8e2-5b98cb59187f_print.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. And where did he grow up?

This is a pattern we have seen with some other kids...but don't miss that little factoid of where he grew up

[Zax2me]

25. He was 21 when he got here.

So he grew up over there.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Media reporting teen years

Not 21, younger brother much earlier than that.

So both grew here, ten years, attending public school and junior colleges.

Sorry, will not play your game.

It is the nightmare scenario the FBI has talked about, especially with Somali kids, who grow up here...

I feel sorry for a few immigrant communities at this moment, but...in the end it's internal...with connections, but internal.

[AtheistCrusader]

68. Doesn't mean anything.

Sometimes people fake motives. Plant false evidence. Misdirect. Mislead.

We may never know for sure the entirety of their motives.
It would help if the second was taken alive, but uh. Yeah, good luck with that.

[B2G]

4. They didn't 'grow up in the US'

They've been here for about 7 years.

[BootinUp]

14. Correct, and they likely didn't learn their radical beliefs in Boston.

These are children of some privilege. I suspect their whole family could be extremists. I am speculating and suggesting we need more facts and don't believe everything the family says on tv.

[B2G]

29. Based on the fact that the oldest brother

was around 19 when he moved here, and the father's comment about 'all hell breaking' lose if his younger son was killed, I would totally agree.

[YoungDemCA]

40. Most of the Islamic extremists who have attacked America have come from affluent families...

Like most of the 9/11 hijackers, for example. These were not people radicalized by poverty, as many have claimed.

I'm not surprised that these Boston bombers come from privilege too.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

6. It is VERY internal.

From what I can read these kids became radical HERE. Not overseas, here. And sadly, the RW way of treating people was part of the reasons why.

ADD) they came here with dreams. They more than likely did here the bad about America. But it was not till they got here, from parts of an interview the first suspect happen to give some time back that has been talked about on ABC, that he saw the bad they talked about. We proved what they were being told. Our own predigest fueled this.

[snagglepuss]

24. That is utter bosh. The internet enables people to connect to the wider world. People

may physically live in the US but its only physical, their minds and hearts live in another space.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

45. I was our attitudes that did this, not the net.

They came here from that stuff. We just showed them, thanks to the RW fear of anything and everything Muslim, that they were right. We ended up alienating them. Our fear did this!

Young, impressionable and they ended up seeing the US in a bad light and we helped to add that light.

[snagglepuss]

76. If someone spends all their time on Jihadi sites, American attitudes good and bad mean dick all.

I would say the same for violent christian militias who immerse themselves with their brand of hatred.

[Zax2me]

27. If I didn't know you were joking...

[cali]

7. please. you have no idea if that's true and neither does anyone else at this point

[codemoguy]

8. seems pretty soon to say that....

Chechnya, travel to Russia...lots happening here...

but so far it doesn't look like a right-wing Bubba government hater...

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Internal does not mean RW only

[codemoguy]

33. it does on DU...

when people here hear the words 'internal' or 'domestic' terrorist they don't often think of the Weathermen...

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. I do

Then there are the anarchist bombings early in the 20th century.

This is internal, that's it

[TeamPooka]

81. because examples that are 40+ years old are not always relevant to today

nowadays the violent extremists are in the right wing not the left.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

11. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions yet

Did they make their own bombs? Was anyone else involved? Did they communicate with radical groups abroad? I tend to think you are probably right, that they were just crazed loners unhappy with American society (especially the older brother). But this story has surprised me several times with its twists and turns that I wouldn't be surprised if new facts turned my head around.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Where did they grow up?

What you are adding is the fear of he FBI...but where exactly did they grow up?

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

55. I don't know how much that matters

I don't know where they were during their formative years and what influences they might have been subjected to. First, I don't know whose decision it was to engage in this plot. If it was their decision entirely, then I may agree with you. If Chechyan terrorists in the United States gave them instructions, training, bomb materials, and even built the bombs then they were tools for someone else's decision. And if they themselves decided to plan this bombing, even though they were physically living in the United States but virtually living abroad and receiving all their influences from foreign sources then I would think this wasn't typical internal terrorism like Columbine or McVeigh but intended to make a statement on behalf of a foreign movement.

I tend to think you are right about this being two unconnected loners but I want to know more.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. Why I hope they catch one alive

But they grew up in the states in their formative years. It does matter.

It could be as simple, speculating now, that they were subjected to eeevvviiillll Muslim talk, the rage in some places, and they became radicalized as a response.

The FBI has suggested so with Somali kids.

[B2G]

60. Geeze, would you stop this crap??

They did not grow up here in 'their formative years'.

Do you really want this to be the fault of the US so badly that you're willing to ignore the facts? Some reporter.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

67. But the point is with today's technology

you could physically grow up in Antarctica but virtually grow up somewhere else. If all you do is communicate with Internet groups from a certain part of the world, talk only to people who come from that part of the world, make no friends with anyone from the society where you are physically present, it's then hard at least for me to talk about internally vs. externally-motivated acts. And that's not even considering that these brothers may have physically belonged to a terrorist cell right here in the U.S. taking instructions from them.

I'm not trying to argue with you as I think you are probably right. In fact I almost always agree with your posts at DU and consider you a very persuasive person here in general. I just wouldn't be surprised if we get blown away with new facts in this incredible story.

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. So where did they go to school? Chechnya middle school?

I know, I know...it could not, in any way, shape or form be internal.

[maddezmom]

70. The older one got here when he was 20

As for the younger one he went to middle school here. Also went to Russia last year and was out of the country for 6 mos. so who knows where he was during that time.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022711982

[cali]

12. No, the older one did NOT grow up here.

that is misinformation. He was 21 when he came here.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/19/tamerlan-tsarnaev-american-life-of-dead-boston-bomb-suspect

[B2G]

42. Misinformation that YOU are spreading

"A couple kids who grew up in the US is internal."

[clarice]

15. If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck...........nt

[treestar]

16. Right.

It has nothing to do with immigration. Other immigrants should not pay a price.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

17. +1 n/t

[former9thward]

19. Utter speculation to say it is internal.

We don't know yet their ties to the movements back in the home country. Do you? The oldest was 21 when they came to U.S., an adult.

[MineralMan]

23. This is blargle and confluddle.

Frankly, you do not know what this is. I don't know what this is. We may know at some point, but we do not know now.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." -- Abraham Lincoln (also attr. to Confucius and many others.)

[ProdigalJunkMail]

30. WOW... from "let's not speculate" to THIS?!?

you have got to be fucking kidding me...

sP

[reformist2]

31. They clearly never integrated and/or assimilated.

[malaise]

32. Yep

You're right

[backscatter712]

37. This is right-wing terrorism.

The Islamic right-wing is still right-wing. Same authoritarian mindset as the Ku Klux Klan.

The only difference is that they speak a different language and read from a different book of Iron Age mythology.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. The point I am making is that his is very much internal

And they will try to make it something else.

[backscatter712]

44. Fair point. n/t

[Dreamer Tatum]

39. You win the Mister Salty Award

for twisting the facts into a pretzel to suit your premise.

[backscatter712]

43. What's non-factual about it?

How much difference is there between Chechen Islamic fundies, Saudi Wahabbi fundies, and American Dominionists?

Not very much.

[Dreamer Tatum]

47. If there's no difference

then why is DU rife with terms like "teabilly," "teathuglican," and way too many to name, but
"Islamonazi", "raghead," and other slurs are grounds for tombstone?

[backscatter712]

49. Because not all Muslims are fundies.

Just like not all Christians are fundies.

Folks like the Boston Marathon killers are representative of a small subset of Muslims, the subset that has gone batshit and think violence is a legitimate way to promote their beliefs.

[Dreamer Tatum]

52. Are you willing to make that same qualification for teabaggers?

I doubt it.

Face it, the two are very different, until you can show me similar terrorist violence by a similar small subset of teabagger types of the same scale.

[backscatter712]

59. There's Eric Rudolph, Timothy McVeigh, Evan Ebel. n/t

That's the Olympic Park bombing, the Oklahoma City bombing, the killing of CO Corrections chief Tom Clements...

[Dreamer Tatum]

61. I'm just asking a simple question

if we are so careful to say that not all muslims are terrorists, and they're the same as our RWers, then why is it ok to say that all RWers are violent?

Because people who say that aren't serious.

[backscatter712]

63. Where did I say that? n/t

[RZM]

62. LOL. Can't help it, huh? And things were looking so promising just the other day

[backscatter712]

66. How is Islamic fundamentalism not right-wing? n/t

[RZM]

71. You could certainly argue that it is

Although 'right wing' can mean a whole hell of a lot of things. It can mean violent anti-government militia types, but it can also mean docile Mormons and pols like Susan Collins. It can mean peaceful clerics but it can also mean Jihadis with bombs strapped to their chests. Lots of diversity there.

The real issue isn't whether or not it's right wing. It's that you've been screaming for teabaggers' heads all week and now that it turns out to be Chechen immigrants, you seem to think 'close enough' wraps it all up with a nice little bow.

Just admit you were wrong. It's not a big deal.

[Dreamer Tatum]

74. Why admit that they're wrong

when in a week or two there will be another thing to blame right wingers for?

[backscatter712]

77. Are you expressing relief that right-wingers aren't getting the blame for these murders? n/t

[Dreamer Tatum]

80. No, just ridiculing people who never, ever, ever learn. nt

[B2G]

75. It was pretty clear that militia/tea party/skinheads was the intent

some here are twisting worse than a moray eel out of water.

[Brickbat]

41. So much for not speculating.

Just...wow.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

46. "do as i say..."

you know the rest...

sP

[Rex]

78. +1

nt.

[zappaman]

51. Oh, FFS...

[Rex]

79. But it is BAD for others to speculate!

Do as I say, not as I do!

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. Now, this is a good one...

So did the illuminati do this with the bankers and the Lizard People?

Mods...please, MIRT leave this one alone... We all need some fun

[kelliekat44]

72. Already on it. They may try but it won't work. nt