This is why NYC should be able to conduct border searches on everyone entering NYC

[graham4anything]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/20/nyregion/as-terror-hit-boston-a-startling-discovery-in-new-york.html?_r=0&pagewanted=print

A woman in the sleek lobby of the World Center Hotel, located just outside the entrance to the National September 11 Memorial and Museum at the World Trade Center site, sat down in one of the stylish, modern chairs on Monday afternoon. She felt something strange beneath her. Under the cushion was a loaded pistol.
---
The obvious first question at the hotel on Washington Street was whether there were video cameras. Yes. The officers watched and soon found what they were looking for. At around the 2 p.m. mark, a husky, bald man, wearing a dark shirt and white shorts, entered the hotel and placed the gun under the cushion, before leaving again. Hotel employees did not believe he was a guest
---

Officers took the video and left to begin examining more feeds from the myriad cameras in the area, to retrace the man’s movements that afternoon. They spotted the man in videos taken in the minutes leading up to his hiding the gun. He was waiting in line with other visitors toward the entrance to the memorial. He passed signs that read “Security Screening Ahead,” and “Prohibited Items” above the silhouette of a pistol.

---
After watching the videos, officers tracked down the memorial employee he had spoken to. The man, they were told, had asked “whether law enforcement or police officers off duty were allowed to enter armed,” Mr. Browne said. “He indicated he was from out of town, from the South. He may have indicated the Carolinas.” The gun was traced back to a Georgia pawnshop some time ago, then bought by someone who sold it to someone else, who then sold it “to a party unknown” for the last time on record, Mr. Browne said. It was unclear when these transactions took place, but none involved a police agency, he said.


----

[graham4anything]

1. This is why

regardless that NYC has the toughest or one of the toughest, people outside can drive in without anyone stopping them with guns/bullets.

There needs to be full gun machines to check-and they need it quick.

Maybe like at customs, if one is packing, they need to have a special line to report it.

This is NOT authoritarian. If guns are a state issue, or a local issue, then each should be able to make people abide by their laws.

The NRA cannot have it both ways.

[pipoman]

2. LOL..

you mean like going into a prison or military installation? FFS..After checkpoint charle is set up, then there will be the necessary house to house searches to clear the secured area, eh? Large fenced in areas with tents to house people while their neighborhood is searched for bullets..OFTLOF

[Eleanors38]

4. Well, NYC LEOs probably have full machine guns, so why not "full gun machines?"

[Fla_Democrat]

5. Some reason.. I don't think your main problem will be the NRA

However, I think the ACLU would be quite vocal on the matter.

[graham4anything]

8. Why? Guns are NOT allowed in. People sneaking them in are criminals.

and there are police and National Guard at the tunnels/bridges already.

BTW, it was done in the wild, wild west in towns across the wild, wild west.

Thank God Harry Reid had 60, otherwise they would have stopped NY/NJ gun laws, but as this proves, much more is needed.

I am hoping the prototype machine is soon available mass market

People with nothing to hide at the tunnels/bridges can declare it and have it known.

Why would anyone hide it?As it is illegal to bring them in. No honest person would hide it.

[OwnedByCats]

19. You can't just search everybody's vehicle

as they enter NYC. Come on, read the constitution. It's the 4th amendment in case you have forgotten. And don't give me any of that crap about "interpreting it differently". You can't just go around treating everyone like criminals. This is not a police state - YET anyway.

[onenote]

20. You are becoming famous here. And not in a good way.

Guess what. There are a lot of things that are illegal to bring into NYC other than guns. Hell, there are things that are illegal to bring into any city. So why limit it to NYC. Why not search everyone everywhere.

Or maybe you should finish seventh grade.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

26. I believe the correct word is infamous...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

25. Your ignorance of civil rights not to mention Federal law is astounding

All the word salad is not going to cover that up

[former9thward]

32. You have totally mis-represented the amendment that was voted on.

Not uncommon with you. 1) the amendment got 57 votes, so Reid did not have 60. He had 43. 2) more importantly the amendment would not have nullified anyone's laws. The amendment said if you had a ccw then you would have the rights and responsibilities of a ccw holder in the state you are in. No laws would be changed. NY would still have the same ccw law which would have to be followed by anyone in the state. As usual what you have stated is completely false.

[dsc]

93. with all due respect that is disingenuous to the point of being dishonest

Yes, they would have to abide by NY law in that they couldn't shoot people and would be banned from carrying where NY bans everyone from carrying, but they would have to do none of the things that NY residents have to do to get a ccw. IF that law passed, people would be able to get ccws from states they have never visited or lived in and use them to carry in states that actually have standards to get ccws. The day after that law passed texas would start selling ccws to new yorkers and denizens of Massachusetts by the cartful.

[former9thward]

98. A completely false post. To get a TX ccw you have to be a legal resident of TX.

You have to be able to prove you have lived in TX for at least 6 straight months. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/InternetForms/Forms/CHL-16.pdf

So people in MA and NY would not be getting ccws from TX. The poster I was replying to, which you rushed to defend, said the laws of NY would be nullified and laws of the least stringent state would apply everywhere. Completely false but with no surprise you defend that b.s. even when the original poster took a hike.

[dsc]

99. and of course they would take the opportunity to balance their budget by selling

special and expensive non resident ccw permits. I am totally sure we can trust the likes of Rick Perry to care about NY citizens.

[former9thward]

100. Now that you were caught giving out misinformation ...

After the original poster fled and left you holding the bag ... Now you have to just make up idle speculation. Maybe the moon will come crashing on us too.

[dsc]

101. again I am sure the NRA wouldn't lobby to create such a ccw factory

NO wait they already are lobbying for such things. You know, I know, and the American people know full well what would happen the day after that law passed. The NRA would start lobbying states to issue ccw to anyone and everyone who asked.

[oneshooter]

102. Compared to Texas, NY has no standards.

[graham4anything]

11. The ACLU got Ollie North off, with that move, prevented any Iran/Contra look-see after.

and turned Jolly Olly into a megasuperstar. That ACLU, correct?

[Fla_Democrat]

16. The same. The ACLU that protects the 1st amendment rights of

unpopular groups to have their say. They may want to point out the 4th may be an issue here.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Now, granted, people can have a serious debate over just what is.. "unreasonable searches and seizures".


But, I stand by my statement... the NRA will not be the main opponent to border checks and searches.

[graham4anything]

42. It's so funny, now that people will want to reinterpret the 2nd, that the 4th keeps popping up.

So let's quickly reinterpret the 2nd and 4th.

Because guns/bullets/bombs have reinterpreted the 1st and our rights to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness and the right to free and peaceful assembly have been lost due to guns/bullets/bombs/hateperps.

As Robin Williams said "Reality, what a concept"
All these events bring reality into the picture.

[Fla_Democrat]

47. Why stop there?

Maybe we can interpenetrate the 3rd? Just in case there is another event like the Boston bombing. How much more efficient would it be, if instead of having police go door to door, the troops could just go back to where they are quartered?

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

In fact..... we don't even need that, it states right there... nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law. Since the War on Terrah* kicked off.. we are in a 'time of war'. All that needs to happen is a law get passed prescribing the particulars.



I think you may be on to** something.




* Deliberate spelling, live with it.

** Delete word as needed.

[sarisataka]

57. Quit thinking small

A little tweak of the 1st and *poof* Rush is off the air
We have already opened the door on the 5th, just expand the "Patriot" Act and we can hold those people we know are dangerous
The 6th talks about public trial. In cases where the public knows the accused is guilty we reinterpret that to a finding of guilt and skip the drawn out trial process.

All it takes is a few 'reinterpretations' and we'll have this country running with fabled Germanic precision

[Fla_Democrat]

62. At least the trains would run on time.*

*Yes, I know....

*http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.asp

Was actually going for the effect, rather than historical accuracy.

[galileoreloaded]

14. its hard to tell sometimes if you are serious

your posts are like a welder, you aren't supposed to look at the flash but you cant help it.

[graham4anything]

15. same question the poster posted as #12. Almost word for word.

Instead of a discussion of the topic, go personal.

means the info in post #1 is correct and can't be argued.

[Cali_Democrat]

17. Don't you find it odd that a lot of DUers seem to be constantly perplexed by your posts?

It's not the first time I've seen other DUers completely puzzled after reading you posts.

[graham4anything]

34. The thread is about the OP, not me. Don't you agree NY/California should keep guns out?

I know I do.

[cherokeeprogressive]

54. I live in California. No I don't agree.

[graham4anything]

55. So bad produce is more important than guns? There are checkpoints for produce & searches

[cherokeeprogressive]

67. Sometimes I wonder if you've ever driven across the NV or OR border into CA.

As I've told you before, it's not uncommon to see checkpoints unmanned on a rainy day. I'm talking about both produce and immigration checkpoints. Even on a nice day, about 3 out of 5 cars are simply waved through. Those that are stopped are usually asked where they're coming from, and if they have any fruits or plants. I don't personally know a single person who's had fruit confiscated or even had their car searched. Over the years I've probably carried a thousand pounds of fireworks back from Reservations in NV.

California has 824 miles of border. Do you have any idea how many roads lead into the state?

[premium]

71. And when the checkpoint on I-15 is open,

3/4 of the time, they just wave cars through.

[graham4anything]

94. But of course, if people think it is in place and 25% are checked

most won't chance that they are one of the 25%

My car was checked when I went. I thought it was cool. Made such an impression that I am using that as an example for our own NY/NJ area.

And if that smell machine prototype can be mass produced then it wouldn't necessarily even take too long to do.

It's like cops do in the south...they announce a drug stop 2 miles after exit 97.
Guess what? Everyone with drugs gets off at exit 97 and the drug stop is really at exit 97.

Now, I would assume if one is a crook, they get really pissed.
But if one isn't, they just laugh.

Who doesn't applaud when some bozo going 120 weaving in and out, you see pulled over down the road a piece by a nice policeman. You give a little right hand in air yeah! motion.

[galileoreloaded]

18. that was as logical as your OP. at least your consistent

[Demo_Chris]

81. The more you post...

The more convinced I become that you are a very crafty troll. It has to be that, because no one who can construct coherent sentences could possible be as silly as you so often are.

[rrneck]

3. ...

[Nuclear Unicorn]

6. Papers please.

[pipoman]

7. Please stop for a quick pat down...LOLOL

[Hoyt]

63. Are you admitting gun owners would not comply with law by not

carrying guns into state? Shoot, I thought the gunnys were law-abiding and all. I guess another myth, like "responsible" gun owners.

[premium]

64. You're so predictable Hoyt.

It's perfectly legal to carry a gun into NYC as long as the transport laws are obeyed.
But of course, you had to get your little nasty dig at lawful gun owners in, didn't you?

[pipoman]

66. LOL..only you

[Hoyt]

69. Yep. Cause I know you guys when it comes to guns. Love you guys otherwise.

[pipoman]

75. If my statement and picture

made your mind go there it has nothing to do with me..you know nothing about me.

That said, does this mean you think Graham's plan is a good one?...you know, doable?

[Hoyt]

76. I'd kind of hope you supposed law-abiding, responsible gun owners - - would act it.

[pipoman]

78. So now you are stating I'm not a

"law-abiding, responsible gun owner"? Do tell or retract. Or don't retract and pretend you're right even though everyone reading this knows you know nothing about me.

[Hoyt]

80. I know how you are with respect to guns because I've read your pro-gun

posts for quite some time.

[pipoman]

89. That's what I thought...flippant vile accusations then change the subject..

[premium]

90. Seems to be his M.O. nt.

[tkmorris]

9. Can the rest of us frisk everyone who leaves the city?

Seems only fair after all...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

29. Escape from New York...its wasn't bad SciFi, its was prophecy!!!

[graham4anything]

10. Note reply #7 uses NRA tactic #234.56 the posting of a large pix in thread they don't like

(number is just for effect, and not a number, as the nra of course has no printed handbook they hand out, though if they did one would see each and every tactic clearly

note to a writer who doesn't like guns- a complete idiot's guide to NRA soundbytes would be a wonderful thing, akin to Paul Waldman's Fraud showing how the Bush's strategy is always repeated and is in effect as we speak

[dionysus]

88. you'e either a brilliant satirist, or a buffoon...

either way you're cracking me up man....

[cali]

92. there's a third alternative. I lean in that direction

It rhymes with hazy.

[redgreenandblue]

96. I lean in the direction...

...that rhymes with roll.

[Logical]

12. It is so bad with you that I have no idea if you are serious or kidding most the time. n-t

[graham4anything]

13. Guns and bullets and other WMDs are not a laughing matter.

As long as there are states with gun laws like the Carolinas have, and as long gun dealers, gun manufacturers, the NRA and gun/bullet owners protect themselves

why shouldnt NY/NJ/ California do whatever it takes to keep the Carolina's and the other 40 plus states lax gun laws from entering.

States rights, right?

Til the 2nd is reinterpreted and all 50 states are like NY, even tougher though.

[blm]

24. Gish Gallop

.

[Pelican]

79. Ishkabibble...

You know words have specific definite meanings and not just whatever you feel like at the moment right?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

31. Indeed, this is at least a local peak for him.

[MadHound]

21. Surprise, surprise, another authoritarian proposal from you,

And guess what, this one violates the Constitution in all sorts of ways.

Sorry, ain't gonna happen. So you have two alternatives, live with things as they are in this country, or move to an authoritarian paradise, like Iran, or North Korea.

[RedCappedBandit]

22. knew it'd be you. nt

[Arcanetrance]

23. No thank you I would prefer not

For one do you realize how long this would take and two it's blatant authoritarianism. I go regularly to visit my family in jersey I don't want to have to deal with being searched each time I come home. Yes guns are deadly yes we should have gun control but not with this being part of it

[graham4anything]

38. Actually, it wouldn't take any longer than it does now for those not attempting to smuggle

One of those new machines would detect which vehicle has one (like they already do anyhow)
and those cars are pulled to the side.

Others go through.

So that isn't true.

And like the great airport security, a bit of delay for the safety is well worth it.

As Benjamin Franklin meant- the temporary security of a person forcing their gun/bullet on the mass public can permanently end lives. So gun people must give up that temporary security of theirs.

An ounce of Prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Damn right Ben, damn right.

[Arcanetrance]

45. Ben Franklin also said

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." As far as your thoughts on the delay it causes comparing to the TSA when was the last time you flew out of Newark at peak times

[graham4anything]

46. Permanent security trumps temporary. Guns/bullets are temporary. Another misinterpretation

Reminds me how chareltons like Ron and Rand Paul always misinterpret the constitution.

Newark and Kennedy are two great airports. I just took someone there about 2 weeks ago,
and they were in in no time, and their plane took off 10 minutes early.

Kennedy I took another family member there, and again, they were through the doors quickly.

Security is not the delay at airports.

[Arcanetrance]

50. Your not talking about permanent safety your speaking of temporary safety

Little things to make you feel better like being searched to enter the city doesn't make us any more safe. I'm glad you took your friend to the airport and they got through quick but most people travelling at peak times don't. Amplify that by the 16 million plus living in the city plus those that come in and out for business, tourism and any other reason it won't work. I fully support strict gun control measures but what your proposing is allowing a police state to flourish and as a liberal I can't support that. But you may find some willing and helpful people among conservatives after all they were happy planting the seeds under bush. If I remember correctly we weren't for that

[graham4anything]

51. 80-20. Don't like Bush? Don't elect Jeb. It really is simple.

NYC don't allow guns in.
Anyone bringing one in is breaking the law.

Therefore, they already know to check their ego at the door. They don't bring them in.

[Arcanetrance]

53. Yes you are breaking the law bringing them in and if caught they will be punished

But to give law enforcement a free ride to just search whoever they want is a bad idea. There is no perfect answer to getting rid of gun problems but I just don't think this is the way.

[graham4anything]

95. This past week showed, most cops and firemen are great people.Get rid of all guns/all bad ones.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

73. WTF are chareltons? As for everything else you said:

[LiberalElite]

27. He's been arrested -

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/22/a-disturbing-mystery-is-solved-and-a-tourist-is-in-custody/

The man who inadvertently set off a sweeping police investigation when he hid his pistol under a cushion in a World Trade Center hotel lobby — minutes before the Boston Marathon bombing — was a tourist simply in a hurry to stow it and get back to his tour group, a relative said on Monday.

The man, Bobby Glen Jackson, 59, was arrested on Saturday in Fayetteville, N.C., and was scheduled to be brought to New York City on Monday to face charges of criminal possession of a weapon and reckless endangerment, the police said. Mr. Jackson owns a pressure-washing business in Fayetteville and does security work, which is why he owns a pistol, said the relative, who asked to remain anonymous

[graham4anything]

35. Good. Hope the perp gets the Max. Any child could have found that gun.

People always dig into chair sides. What kind of fool leaves a gun in a public chair?

Why does someone need to carry a gun? Glad they are bringing the perp in.
He should have to pay for the costs to fly him in.Zero tolerance on this perp.

[Douglas Carpenter]

28. knr - EXACTLY!! Only when the government controls everything everybody does will we be safe!!

[LanternWaste]

30. your argument is lacking, well... everything a sound argument requires other than a weak premise

Your ESL courses seem to helping quite a bit, yet you may want to think about focusing on composition rather than verbal... as that bit seems to be lacking quite a few fundamentals.

However, I will say that you language skills are indeed progressing, and your use of performance art is a wonderful vehicle to continue practicing.

Good luck!!!

As for the body (and intent) of the post itself, well... you still have years and years left to realize that when the best we have to offer is mere anecdotal evidence, it implies our argument is lacking, well... everything a sound argument requires other than a weak premise (in other words, little more than a bumper sticker).

[Fumesucker]

33. Snake Plissken is *not* amused

[graham4anything]

36. You know one day the 2nd will be reinterpreted and your guns will be gone.

and no amount of large distracting photos will make that go away.

[Fumesucker]

39. Are you talking to me?

[johnp3907]

49. I heard he was dead.

[Dr. Strange]

65. You are in violation of DU TOS.

Your post clearly utilizes NRA tactic #234.56, and as such has been deemed unacceptable and icky by Bloomberg's Association of Statists & the Truth Asserters for Righteous Despotism (BAS/TARD). Please print a retraction, or your DU account will be terminated, and the photos from last year's Lounge Christmas party will be distributed to your family and friends.

[sarisataka]

37. I was studying the Second Amendent

I like to read it 8-10 times minimum each day. Today I noticed something. I found these words just a little bit farther down the page:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I read more and found all kinds of interesting words and ideas in and around the Second Amendment document.
Has anyone ever considered giving those ideas the force of law?












*do I really need the smilie?*

[graham4anything]

40. Sounds to me there are indeed loopholes in the 2nd as holeladen as Swiss Cheese

Let's have a new court reinterpret all of the 2nd.

We need only but one justice more, possibly two, to carry it through.

Remember, Justice Kagen and Sotomayer were not on the court the last time.
And the public is speaking.

[JHB]

41. Pass the butter, please

[bluedigger]

43. Good thinking!

While they are at it they can confiscate any unauthorized oversize drink cups.

[graham4anything]

44. Reinterpret the 2nd and the 4th. The 2nd takes away my 1st.

[premium]

61. Aren't you living in the wrong country.

You'd be more comfortable living in N. Korea, or Iran, these are the types of laws they love.
I don't even know why you're here on a progressive site, because so far, nothing you've proposed is progressive, unless you think that more erosion of our rights is progressive.

[Texasgal]

52. You scare me.

Seriously I wonder about people like you.

[graham4anything]

58. I don't believe in anarchy. Look what a hacker did today with that phony tweet.

Tanked the market

same things with guns/bullets

[pipoman]

87. And you think that 'logic' explains away her fear instinct?

lol

[fishwax]

56. doesn't seem like a very good reason for what you're arguing

[SomethingFishy]

59. So is this idea just for guns or all illegal activity?

And just for NY? Or should all states be able to curb illegal activity by having "checkpoints"?

[datasuspect]

60. maybe they could put up a wall

or DRONES DRONES DRONES

[tammywammy]

68. Stupidest post I've read today.

Congrats!

[Bonobo]

70. Today?

It is the stupidest I have read in years.

[tammywammy]

72. I read something recently that was pretty stupid.

But I do think this tops that.

The performance art of the OP is excellent.

[pinboy3niner]

74. It deserves nomination for DU's Beer, Travel Money and Many Experiences Award

[JVS]

83. Beer and travel money aren't going to help much when you need an internal passport.

[Purveyor]

77. It is long past time that 'checkpoints' be established to pass from 'county to county' in this

country, indeed.

[JVS]

82. Have you invested in property in New Jersey?

[onpatrol98]

84. This is why NYC should be able to conduct border searches on everyone entering NYC...

I thought you were joking???

[premium]

86. No, no,

he's dead ass serious, he's stated it before, he wants border checkpoints to search for guns/bullets.

Here's what else he believes, he thinks that an anti gun candidate can get elected to replace Sen. Baucus in Montana and Bloomie's money will propel them to victory.

[graham4anything]

105. yes indeed. See new thread.

[hobbit709]

85. They should start with you

[aikoaiko]

91. I think you've demonstrated that the anti-gun side has freaky, anti-civil liberty fringe just as

the pro-gun side has a freaky, anti-civil liberty fringe.

[Electric Monk]

97. I think I have to agree with you on that observation, oddly enough. nt

[sylvi]

103. Don't be too tough on G4a

After all, it "probably sounded better in the original German."

[Bonobo]

104. I was hoping for a new GrahamCrackers thread today, but...

there was none, so I am kicking this one to tide me over.