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Pelican

(1,156 posts)
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 07:40 AM Apr 2013

Woman Takes Self-Portraits Of The Strange Looks She Receives In Public

Interesting idea I suppose but at the same time she is probably getting as many folks with their eyes drawn to movement as she is folks who are looking at her with the "Oh my god" look...

________________________________

The story behind the project:

While creating an image for my Something to Weigh series, I decided to photograph myself sitting alone on the Times Square stairs to capture my solitude in a busy crowd. After developing the film, I noticed that a man was standing behind me being photographed by an attractive blonde woman. Rather than pose for her camera, he was sneering at me behind my back.
Five minutes later and at another location, another man turns his back to gawk at me while I am photographing myself sitting at a café table



I have always been aware of people making faces, commenting and laughing at me about my size. I now reverse the gaze and record their reactions to me while I perform mundane tasks in public spaces. I seek out spaces that are visually interesting and geographically diverse. I try to place myself in compositions that contain feminine icons or advertisements.
Otherwise, I position myself and the camera in a pool of people…and wait.










http://www.buzzfeed.com/hnigatu/woman-takes-self-portraits-of-the-strange-looks-she-receives

129 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Woman Takes Self-Portraits Of The Strange Looks She Receives In Public (Original Post) Pelican Apr 2013 OP
Tough to say that the people photographed are staring at her. trumad Apr 2013 #1
agreed. there could be a lot of selective editing going on. TalkingDog Apr 2013 #27
I've seen this happen. But here, not so sure. The blue top outfit may be what some are Honeycombe8 Apr 2013 #112
Fascinating treestar Apr 2013 #2
Here is something my skinny husband tells me. It may be neat to be petite but inorder southernyankeebelle Apr 2013 #69
Good for him treestar Apr 2013 #70
Exactly. HappyMe Apr 2013 #82
Well you know it took me years to finally realize I was worth living. Been married southernyankeebelle Apr 2013 #84
Some of her photos are in foreign countries BainsBane Apr 2013 #118
the photo with the cops is one I find disgusting lunatica Apr 2013 #3
yea I think she's seeing some sneers where there are none TroglodyteScholar Apr 2013 #5
I'm with here... Skinny people find fat people... Agschmid Apr 2013 #23
I'm not saying skinny people are never cruel or disdainful towards the overweight... TroglodyteScholar Apr 2013 #42
This is true. HappyMe Apr 2013 #43
Same here - those cops are jerks wicket Apr 2013 #8
So am I lunatica Apr 2013 #19
I do not think the cops were staring at her. RebelOne Apr 2013 #37
He's holding his hat over her head, behind her back, and making a gross face. Sheldon Cooper Apr 2013 #44
There's no possible way that she HappyMe Apr 2013 #45
Of course she knew they were there. Sheldon Cooper Apr 2013 #48
It's all about perspective MrBig Apr 2013 #50
Yeah, I think maybe 'gross' was the wrong word choice. Sheldon Cooper Apr 2013 #67
Yeah - considering the cop's no stick figure, either. n/t cigsandcoffee Apr 2013 #68
I didn't read the article, but is it not possible she set up the cop photo? cigsandcoffee Apr 2013 #21
Sorry, but this is really stupid. vi5 Apr 2013 #4
She could go on the "Girls" HBO show... kentuck Apr 2013 #6
a lot of.. sendero Apr 2013 #7
+1 (Great way to put it!) nt Poll_Blind Apr 2013 #24
and it could be just glances and no stares. the camera gets a frozen moment in time. nt seabeyond Apr 2013 #10
When you change the channels on TV, whoever is on it gets frozen for like .2 seconds AngryAmish Apr 2013 #65
right. the problem with that example is she had those stupid ass expressions thru so much of her seabeyond Apr 2013 #79
Whoa!! Lookit that!!! That pic is crazy lol!! Inkfreak Apr 2013 #121
project? wet.hen88 Apr 2013 #9
I agree with everyone else. Sheldon Cooper Apr 2013 #11
The only thing the project highlights is this woman's grandiose ego. Doremus Apr 2013 #12
My wife's peeve pipoman Apr 2013 #17
I know plenty of women her size that look fabulous all the time, like Adele (who I don't know) Exultant Democracy Apr 2013 #26
A lot of people think Adele is just one more fat woman...who can sing. nt Honeycombe8 Apr 2013 #113
and perhaps that flatter your shape without empohasizing what's not so great SoCalDem Apr 2013 #123
Agreed, plus, a smile and an attempt at decent posture goes a long way. Butterbean Apr 2013 #29
MTV reality show "true life" featured guy with horns imbedded in this head - Liberal_in_LA Apr 2013 #104
So which is it? BainsBane Apr 2013 #52
No, they're not contradictory. opiate69 Apr 2013 #56
May be a little paranoid? pipoman Apr 2013 #13
Within "popular culture" there is the concept of "The Gaze", she's apparently trying to mine that HereSince1628 Apr 2013 #14
I'm glad someone gets it BainsBane Apr 2013 #54
I can't be sure that I do.. HereSince1628 Apr 2013 #60
Your argument makes sense to me BainsBane Apr 2013 #63
That's a valid interpretation Orrex Apr 2013 #73
There isn't just one interpretation BainsBane Apr 2013 #85
Where did you get any of that from my post? Orrex Apr 2013 #93
Just so you know what kind of person you're dealing with here Orrex... opiate69 Apr 2013 #96
Classy! Orrex Apr 2013 #99
Welcome... opiate69 Apr 2013 #105
3-3 to leave. What's up with the edit though? cherokeeprogressive Apr 2013 #111
So much fail in the alert and comments opiate69 Apr 2013 #116
Regardless... Orrex Apr 2013 #120
Thete is that too lol... opiate69 Apr 2013 #122
Also, have I ever mentioned how delicious irony can be? opiate69 Apr 2013 #117
I know you didn't say there was just one interpretation BainsBane Apr 2013 #108
It IS art. It IS NOT reality, even though it plays with reality HereSince1628 Apr 2013 #92
"Eliciting emotion" is easy. Art should be about more than that. Orrex Apr 2013 #94
whether or not you like her work BainsBane Apr 2013 #110
No, it's not art.. it's a piss-poor attempt at social "science" opiate69 Apr 2013 #98
Her resume makes clear she is a practicing artist BainsBane Apr 2013 #109
She should keep practicing. Orrex Apr 2013 #124
I didn't tell you to do anything BainsBane Apr 2013 #129
This is staged...the cops were not jerks HipChick Apr 2013 #15
+1 frogmarch Apr 2013 #72
She should move down here to San Antonio, she is not That big. sammytko Apr 2013 #16
It's obvious she's cutting a sorefeet Apr 2013 #18
The project says a lot more about her..... NCTraveler Apr 2013 #20
Setting up a camera to take a self-portrait MineralMan Apr 2013 #22
Yes, seeing someone photographing in public always draws my attenton sylvi Apr 2013 #30
remember her next time you laugh at the walmart people website dembotoz Apr 2013 #25
Well... pipi_k Apr 2013 #32
lol, oh yes it is redqueen Apr 2013 #88
Your conclusion is a fallacy. bluestate10 Apr 2013 #114
There is significant evidence BainsBane Apr 2013 #119
Couple of things... Poll_Blind Apr 2013 #28
I'm always amazed at how cruel people can be. polly7 Apr 2013 #31
except they are not being cruel hfojvt Apr 2013 #62
Except there is a camera pointed at them on a tripod ProudToBeBlueInRhody Apr 2013 #83
Self centered paranoia pipi_k Apr 2013 #33
I think you're right about her reading stuff into HappyMe Apr 2013 #38
I am not so sure about some of those photos -- Hell Hath No Fury Apr 2013 #34
This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Apr 2013 #35
What do you call an NYPD cop who isn't an idiot? Dash87 Apr 2013 #36
That first photo of the blonde supposedly taking a snapshot of her RebelOne Apr 2013 #39
She did admit pipi_k Apr 2013 #46
lol I have the same issue, hence I try for non facial shots whenever I can. loli phabay Apr 2013 #53
I saw this on Salon ellie Apr 2013 #40
I don't see anyone looking at her in the first and fifth pics... Blue_Tires Apr 2013 #41
Ummm... the guy in the 1st, the girl and her mom in the 5th? Recursion Apr 2013 #125
Which guy in the first photo? Blue_Tires Apr 2013 #128
It seems to me like she's seeing what she wants to see. Marr Apr 2013 #47
Fishing...exactly pipi_k Apr 2013 #51
With the exception of the cop holding the hat, Quantess Apr 2013 #49
These comments would be an interesting addition to her work BainsBane Apr 2013 #55
Not really. kwassa Apr 2013 #115
Everyone's staring at her from behind B2G Apr 2013 #57
Part of the issue I'm seeing is that she's standing in the middle of a walkway in NYC justiceischeap Apr 2013 #58
So... lumberjack_jeff Apr 2013 #59
Everyone in this thread is looking at her Capt. Obvious Apr 2013 #61
I was just saying that BainsBane Apr 2013 #64
What... pipi_k Apr 2013 #71
If you want to understand BainsBane Apr 2013 #87
This is a brilliant experiment LittleBlue Apr 2013 #66
I'm just gonna fix that headline real quick... opiate69 Apr 2013 #74
How does she know when to trigger the camera? bunnies Apr 2013 #75
It seems more likely that the camera takes a ton of photos Orrex Apr 2013 #76
Yeah. I spose that makes sense. But... bunnies Apr 2013 #81
I think that people are looking at her because... murray hill farm Apr 2013 #80
People always look when other people take pictures of others or themselves darkangel218 Apr 2013 #77
People look at the person who is being photographed. Liberal_in_LA Apr 2013 #78
Also, Obama is a male gaze asshole ProudToBeBlueInRhody Apr 2013 #86
"... is a male gaze asshole" redqueen Apr 2013 #89
Sophia Loren is a female gaze asshole, while we're at it. Orrex Apr 2013 #95
lmao!!!!!!! darkangel218 Apr 2013 #101
Obviously the latter. JTFrog Apr 2013 #106
Should I have included sarcasm tags? ProudToBeBlueInRhody Apr 2013 #107
When you hold an object or strike a pose in public Rex Apr 2013 #90
You can't assume people are thinking nasty things ecstatic Apr 2013 #91
This message was self-deleted by its author TimberValley Apr 2013 #97
My daughter was much larger than her, RebelOne Apr 2013 #100
+1 darkangel218 Apr 2013 #102
Where is the cop's right hand in that pic? Ash_F Apr 2013 #103
What Not to Wear. tavernier Apr 2013 #126
I certainly wouldn't make fun of her, but... tridim Apr 2013 #127

TalkingDog

(9,001 posts)
27. agreed. there could be a lot of selective editing going on.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:34 AM
Apr 2013

Although I will give her props for the photographs themselves. They are well composed. The color use is interesting. And although I'm not sure it succeeds in it's goals, it does start a conversation.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
112. I've seen this happen. But here, not so sure. The blue top outfit may be what some are
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 10:20 PM
Apr 2013

looking at....regardless of her size, it's a joke worthy outfit. Her size and the fit of the clothes just makes it worse.

A couple of those pics, I don't think the people are looking at her at all.

But I can see why she's paranoid. This does happen. I've seen it all too often. Not just obese people, but really unattractive people, too. I don't get it. It's rude to make fun of others, unkind, and besides, what do I care about how other people look? I've got better things to look at, think about, and comment on.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
2. Fascinating
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 07:45 AM
Apr 2013

Though in the end most people likely don't notice. Since we have a lot of fat people in this country, she has more allies than not.

 

southernyankeebelle

(11,304 posts)
69. Here is something my skinny husband tells me. It may be neat to be petite but inorder
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 03:29 PM
Apr 2013

to have some heat you kinda have some meat. My skinny husbands calls my extra fat as love handles. He is a rarity I find. He isn't judgemental always loves me the way I am. I learned to love myself just the way I am. I learned if people don't like fat people then don't look.

HappyMe

(20,277 posts)
82. Exactly.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 04:21 PM
Apr 2013

Like RuPaul says, "If you don't love yourself, how in the hell you gonna love somebody else."

 

southernyankeebelle

(11,304 posts)
84. Well you know it took me years to finally realize I was worth living. Been married
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 04:28 PM
Apr 2013

for 35 yrs to a man I only knew for 2 months. God put him in my life for some good. I love him more today than yesterday. I wish many people could have what we have. You learn to except the good, bad and the ugly we all go through sometimes.

BainsBane

(57,751 posts)
118. Some of her photos are in foreign countries
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 11:24 PM
Apr 2013

Where it really is unusual for a young woman to be overweight. You can see those on buzzfeed and her website.

Edit: some of those are in this OP as well.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
3. the photo with the cops is one I find disgusting
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 07:47 AM
Apr 2013

And other than the girl wearing the pajama bottoms no one is laughing at her.

Also if she has her friend standing there with a camera aimed at her people are going to look more out of curiosity if nothing else.

TroglodyteScholar

(5,477 posts)
5. yea I think she's seeing some sneers where there are none
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 07:59 AM
Apr 2013

And making bold assumptions about what people are thinking. Not impressed.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
23. I'm with here... Skinny people find fat people...
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:02 AM
Apr 2013

Revolting... And that is apparently what it looks lil IRL.

Comforting huh?

TroglodyteScholar

(5,477 posts)
42. I'm not saying skinny people are never cruel or disdainful towards the overweight...
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 01:08 PM
Apr 2013

What I'm saying is if you're looking for something, you'll often find it whether it's there or not.

On edit: There's also the fact that she's setting up a camera to photograph herself doing mundane shit. That's going to draw a "wtf" look or two regardless of body type.

HappyMe

(20,277 posts)
43. This is true.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 01:12 PM
Apr 2013

Standing like that in the middle of the sidewalk will get you a couple of 'looks' too.

wicket

(14,901 posts)
8. Same here - those cops are jerks
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 08:06 AM
Apr 2013

But I don't think the other pictures show what she thinks they do (and I'm a fat chick!)

RebelOne

(30,947 posts)
37. I do not think the cops were staring at her.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 12:45 PM
Apr 2013

The cop on the left is pointing to something behind her.

HappyMe

(20,277 posts)
45. There's no possible way that she
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 01:18 PM
Apr 2013

didn't know that those cops weren't standing that close to her.

It looks staged to me.

Sheldon Cooper

(3,724 posts)
48. Of course she knew they were there.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 01:25 PM
Apr 2013

She continued to just stand there awkwardly, so they decided to goof around with her.

MrBig

(640 posts)
50. It's all about perspective
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 01:43 PM
Apr 2013

I disagree that the cop is making a gross face. I got the impression that the cop saw the camera and decided to "photobomb" the shot. It's definitely possible it was a gross face though.

I guess that was the point of this line of photography - this sort of discussion.

Sheldon Cooper

(3,724 posts)
67. Yeah, I think maybe 'gross' was the wrong word choice.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 03:20 PM
Apr 2013

After thinking about it, I agree that the cop was probably just photobombing the picture.

cigsandcoffee

(2,300 posts)
21. I didn't read the article, but is it not possible she set up the cop photo?
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 08:59 AM
Apr 2013

It doesn't really look like the sort of thing cops would bother themselves with.

 

vi5

(13,305 posts)
4. Sorry, but this is really stupid.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 07:56 AM
Apr 2013

Yes, it's a worthy subject. But maybe, just maybe the people are staring at a woman setting up a camera on a tripod in the middle of incredibly crowded tourist areas, and then standing there awkwardly posing and making faces or bending down to tie her shoe in the middle of a crowd. Or maybe because in some of them it's a woman setting up a camera to or someone taking a picture of herself taking pictures or talking on her phone. Just maybe.

The whole thing just reeks of a ridiculous sense of insecurity crossed over into narcissism.

I've no doubt that in certain situations in certain places, that overweight people get some strange looks and glares. However I don't think this exercise proves any of that.

sendero

(28,552 posts)
7. a lot of..
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 08:02 AM
Apr 2013

... Heisenberg happening here.

This experiment can only have much meaning if the photo is taken surreptitiously IMHO.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
10. and it could be just glances and no stares. the camera gets a frozen moment in time. nt
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 08:08 AM
Apr 2013
 

AngryAmish

(25,704 posts)
65. When you change the channels on TV, whoever is on it gets frozen for like .2 seconds
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 03:06 PM
Apr 2013

If the person is speaking they can have some really weird expressions on their faces.

Or remember the Super Bowl, there were a few unflattering pictures of Beyonce out there. like this



By any standard she is beautiful. But for one microsecond..

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
79. right. the problem with that example is she had those stupid ass expressions thru so much of her
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 04:19 PM
Apr 2013

show. so no surprise a moment is frozen in time. didnt have to hunt it out. it was one of the things that turned me off the half time.

but.. yes. i hear what you are saying.

so true.

wet.hen88

(64 posts)
9. project?
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 08:08 AM
Apr 2013

Is this project to help her lose weight? It seems she thinks she's getting some form of revenge on those she thinks are watching her. Whatever her point is, this was not a good idea. Makes her look bitter.

Sheldon Cooper

(3,724 posts)
11. I agree with everyone else.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 08:13 AM
Apr 2013

I don't think anyone is looking at her because of her weight. If I was walking down the street and saw someone who was by herself and awkwardly posing in front of a visible camera, I'm sure I'd be curious about her as well.

The cop was a jerk, however.

Doremus

(7,273 posts)
12. The only thing the project highlights is this woman's grandiose ego.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 08:15 AM
Apr 2013

Rather than concentrate on mostly fictional reactions, she could try doing something proactive about her obvious insecurities.

 

pipoman

(16,038 posts)
17. My wife's peeve
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 08:34 AM
Apr 2013

is people who obviously have the means to buy clothing of their choice, picking clothing a size or 2 too small..I have a good friend/co-worker who is a big man..6' and near 400#, he chooses his clothing well. Always looks professional and tidy which makes his size far less noticeable than if he chose other garments..I've seen women do the same..I am by no means a fashion snob and don't care what anyone wears or doesn't, but if a person is going to be hypersensitive of people's reaction to them maybe take a look at how to mitigate that. I got a new tattoo in December, across from me was a guy complaining about how people judge him without knowing him...he had 3" gauges, at least 20 piercings on his face and head, and face and neck tattoos...who's fault is it that people judge him...

Exultant Democracy

(6,597 posts)
26. I know plenty of women her size that look fabulous all the time, like Adele (who I don't know)
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:26 AM
Apr 2013

and yes you need buy clothing that is in your size.

SoCalDem

(103,856 posts)
123. and perhaps that flatter your shape without empohasizing what's not so great
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 11:38 PM
Apr 2013

At my age, I prefer LONG pants because they do not expose my pasty white, lumpy legs and I hope I do not stand pigeon-toed

Butterbean

(1,014 posts)
29. Agreed, plus, a smile and an attempt at decent posture goes a long way.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:52 AM
Apr 2013

Just because you're heavy doesn't mean you have to look horrible. The clothes she is wearing appear as if she subscribes to the "if it zips, it fits" theory. Everything is unflattering, and to be frank, looks quite uncomfortable. As a plus sized woman myself, I can tell you that I wouldn't wear clothes like that simply because they look like they are uncomfortable as hell. Everything looks too tight and she looks miserable.

Smile, stand up straight, dress yourself with something slightly flattering or less tight and cutting. It goes a long way. If people are still shooting you "oh you gross fat person" looks after that, well then, screw 'em. They can't be helped anyway. *shrug*

 

Liberal_in_LA

(44,397 posts)
104. MTV reality show "true life" featured guy with horns imbedded in this head -
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 08:34 PM
Apr 2013

he was complaining (and getting the horns removed) because he was the center of attention everywhere he went

- people would just walk up to him and start a conversation about the horns or take his picture.

BainsBane

(57,751 posts)
52. So which is it?
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 02:09 PM
Apr 2013

Does she have a grandiose ego or is she insecure? Those statements are contradictory.

 

opiate69

(10,129 posts)
56. No, they're not contradictory.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 02:23 PM
Apr 2013

Often, egos are overdeveloped as compensation for insecurities and/or low self esteem.

 

pipoman

(16,038 posts)
13. May be a little paranoid?
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 08:23 AM
Apr 2013

Maybe she is walking around talking to herself for all anyone knows. The pic at the street crossing looks like this to me. It isn't like there is a shortage of overweight people in NYC, certainly not to the degree of being a spectacle...in spite of bans on french fries and large sodas..

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
14. Within "popular culture" there is the concept of "The Gaze", she's apparently trying to mine that
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 08:25 AM
Apr 2013

idea as part of an art project.

This is the SOs area of study, not mine, but as I understand it, the idea is that "the gaze" which is often described as predatory or exploitative of women can be 'reclaimed' and used to a woman's purpose.

It's been suggested that with that repurposing by the object of the gaze comes a sense of control and empowerment. It's a notion that's been discussed over a range of issues from anorexic models to strippers and porn stars.

This 'project' seems to be about controlling the gaze with images of what seem out of synch with popular standards for what the object of a camera lens should be.

I'm not sure how well it works, but I think I see the intellectual issue that is behind her 'project"


HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
60. I can't be sure that I do..
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 02:41 PM
Apr 2013

yet given that she refers to "the gaze" in the brief text at the link I think maybe it has some explanatory power

BainsBane

(57,751 posts)
63. Your argument makes sense to me
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 02:52 PM
Apr 2013

And would be the basis for a persuasive grant proposal. I think the comments in this thread are fascinating. I find particularly interesting the insistence that no one is really looking at her, that she's narcissistic. People seem to object to her making herself visible, defying the invisibility that surrounds women who are not conventionally pretty.

Orrex

(67,093 posts)
73. That's a valid interpretation
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 03:56 PM
Apr 2013

Another valid interpretation is that she's not really capturing reactions to people who aren't "conventionally pretty." Instead, she's cherry-picking photos of people who are responding to a conspicuous anomaly, namely the presence of a stationary person in an area of heavy foot traffic.

YMMV, of course.

BainsBane

(57,751 posts)
85. There isn't just one interpretation
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 04:35 PM
Apr 2013

It's art. Your scenario, it seems to me, clearly isn't the case for a number of those photos. My remarks, however, were about the comments in this thread. Those say something interesting independent of what was in the minds of the bystanders.
I can't help but think of FEMEN. No one questioned that the public was looking at those women. That was assumed a priori that the public wanted to see them. Here people conclude no one is looking at the woman because she doesn't, in the minds of many here, merit the public gaze. In fact, your interpretation illustrates my point exactly. You assume people are looking at someone else, not her. In that interpretation, the invisible camera person merits visibility more than the woman actually present in the photos.

Orrex

(67,093 posts)
93. Where did you get any of that from my post?
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 06:20 PM
Apr 2013

Nowhere did I suggest that people are looking at someone else. Nowhere. Nor did I suggest that there's just one interpretation.

Instead, I suggested that people are noticing anomalous behavior--namely, the act of standing still (or, as it turns out, assuming odd poses or displaying eye-catching expressions). If a conventionally attractive man did the same things, I suspect that you'd be able to find similar responses among passersby, especially if you cherry-pick from a large number of photographs in order to find the responses that you want.

You assume people are looking at someone else, not her. In that interpretation, the invisible camera person merits visibility more than the woman actually present in the photos.
You are assuming that the passersby are looking at someone else, and you are blaming this assumption on me. Sorry--it's not up to me to defend or explain your assumptions.


Did you actually read what I wrote?
 

opiate69

(10,129 posts)
96. Just so you know what kind of person you're dealing with here Orrex...
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 06:33 PM
Apr 2013


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=302058&sub=trans

Edited to put original link back in. No idea how it got changed in the first place..

Orrex

(67,093 posts)
99. Classy!
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 07:59 PM
Apr 2013

I was aware of the multiple hidden posts, of course, but resorting to sock-puppetry is a new low.

Thanks for the heads up--I might otherwise have mistakenly thought that I was dealing with a grown-up.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
111. 3-3 to leave. What's up with the edit though?
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 10:15 PM
Apr 2013

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Deliberate shit stirring. Here rather than engaging in the discussion about the differing interpretations Orrex and Bainsbane have, he decides to interject his own personal, negative views of Bain by linking to this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2755219#edits
After he gets the response from Orrex he wants, he edits his post to hide his shit stirring. He knows he has done something anti-social and therefore tries to hide it by reediting the post to a dead link. His purpose here is to spread ill-will and disrupt, not to discuss the subject matter. He isn't even interested in taking on ideas but rather in promoting animosity so he tells another poster "what kind of person" he's "dealing with" as an effort to shit stir. Skinner let Bain's sock go and didn't PPR her. Yet Opiate69 brings it up here, as he has elsewhere, for the sole purpose of sowing discord. This site should be an opportunity to discuss ideas, not for people to pick sides and hurl mud at each other.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Apr 25, 2013, 07:09 PM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: yeah it is kind of shitty beating of a dead horse, but not really hide-worthy. she did do the sock puppet thing to get around alert limits and also recc'd her own posts, so she brought the ridicule upon herself. kind of the price of being allowed to stay after that. I would say call him out in the thread, make fun of his chicken shit edit/. LOL
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: Agree with the alerter. Opiate69 is a troll that stinks up DU and should have been shown the door when his buddy OneTenthOfOnePercent was
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

 

opiate69

(10,129 posts)
116. So much fail in the alert and comments
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 10:47 PM
Apr 2013

About the edit: One can look at the unedited version.. the only change I made was to correct a typo in the header.

About one tenth of one percent or whoever... I've never interacted with him/her so not sure how that qualifies him as my "buddy"..

Now, I have to wonder which one of her socks did she use to alert? In any case, I stand by the assertion that anyone who has the misfortune to cross paths with her should be aware of the abject dishonesty she has exhibited.

Edit: I really have no idea how that link got changed.. must have been something weird with this new phone or something.

Orrex

(67,093 posts)
120. Regardless...
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 11:29 PM
Apr 2013

You edited your post before I read/replied to it, so the complaint that you'd tweaked it after "getting the desired response" from me makes no sense.

 

opiate69

(10,129 posts)
122. Thete is that too lol...
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 11:33 PM
Apr 2013

I wasn't able to check too far into it because I'm on my phone while my oldest is at his Civil Air Patrol meeting... kinda thought that was the case.

 

opiate69

(10,129 posts)
117. Also, have I ever mentioned how delicious irony can be?
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 11:20 PM
Apr 2013

Just looked at onetenth's profile... loving the fact that one of the stated reasons for his pizza was trying to bring a sock here, given the subject matter of my alerted post!

BainsBane

(57,751 posts)
108. I know you didn't say there was just one interpretation
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:31 PM
Apr 2013

And I certainly did read what you wrote. You wrote "YMMV," and I essentially agreed with that and gave you my interpretation. As I said, the responses in this thread struck me as fascinating and can be considered part of her work in capturing the public gaze. What I was doing was reading the responses like someone might read a literary text. You commented that people were responding not to the artist but to "the presence of a stationary person in an area of heavy foot traffic." You explicitly say people are looking at someone out of the frame of the image rather than the woman herself. Many others have made the same observation. My interpretation that you excerpt above is based directly on such responses. I'm not "blaming you" for anything. There is no blame to be had, and there is nothing wrong about your response. Because this artist's work involves the notion of a public gaze, your reaction is part of what this work elicits. I was simply critiquing the responses through a cultural studies lens. I don't expect you to explain or defend either my or your own assumptions.

All photos are cherry picked. I find it interesting to probe assumptions. If we were looking at nature photos no one would ask how many shots did it take to get the perfect photo of a bird or a flower. Photographers always take many more shots that they use. That, I expect, is as true for photographers in our weekly photo contests here as the artist featured in this OP.


HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
92. It IS art. It IS NOT reality, even though it plays with reality
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 06:02 PM
Apr 2013

If it really is art, and I think it probably is--the woman IS a faculty member in art, after all--then the outcome would be to elicit emotions that can be questioned.

I think it's pretty clear that has been achieved.

Orrex

(67,093 posts)
94. "Eliciting emotion" is easy. Art should be about more than that.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 06:24 PM
Apr 2013

The asshole who held up signs declaring "you deserve to be raped" has elicited plenty of emotion; does that mean that his hastily scrawled sign is art?


If we're critiquing her performance, then we might identify it as contrived and predictable.

If we're critiquing the apparent message of her performance, then we might identify it as obvious and facile.

BainsBane

(57,751 posts)
110. whether or not you like her work
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:39 PM
Apr 2013

It is indeed art. She has won grant funding and exhibited in both group and solo shows. You can find her resume through her webpage, linked from the article in the OP.

 

opiate69

(10,129 posts)
98. No, it's not art.. it's a piss-poor attempt at social "science"
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 06:42 PM
Apr 2013

Poorly dressed up as art.

BainsBane

(57,751 posts)
109. Her resume makes clear she is a practicing artist
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:36 PM
Apr 2013

You can find by following links in the article on Buzzfeed.

Orrex

(67,093 posts)
124. She should keep practicing.
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 07:47 AM
Apr 2013

And why are you spamming so hard on her behalf? How many times are you going to tell us to click on her links?


BainsBane

(57,751 posts)
129. I didn't tell you to do anything
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 12:48 PM
Apr 2013

I am simply pointing out the fact that she is an artist. If you want verification, her resume provides it. She is an Associate Professor and head of the Department of Photography at a college in Memphis. We're not talking Carnegie-Melon here, but still, she's an artist.

I find her concept interesting. It's difficult for visual artists to put their work into words. When I see a concept that is interesting and writes itself, I appreciate it.

Contemporary art is a vast field. There are lots of things any of us might not consider art. But we are not the ones who determine that. As an artist friend of mine reminds me when we see something neither of us get, "there are many art worlds."

HipChick

(25,612 posts)
15. This is staged...the cops were not jerks
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 08:30 AM
Apr 2013

the camera is on a tripod, and someone is taking the photo...she poses for each of them....I was taking photo's in Times Square and one put their hat on me..they do that in NYC

sammytko

(2,480 posts)
16. She should move down here to San Antonio, she is not That big.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 08:30 AM
Apr 2013

That is about average around here. I had to get rid of fifty pounds myself, but I never felt " fat".

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
20. The project says a lot more about her.....
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 08:55 AM
Apr 2013

than anyone else. The cops didn't notice someone taking a picture just a couple of feet away. Staged.

MineralMan

(151,210 posts)
22. Setting up a camera to take a self-portrait
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:02 AM
Apr 2013

gets people's attention. In many cases, people are trying to figure out why a person is doing that. The situation influences the reactions.

 

sylvi

(813 posts)
30. Yes, seeing someone photographing in public always draws my attenton
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 10:14 AM
Apr 2013

And part of that attention is to what they are photographing. In that split second that the shutter opens I could have any expression on my face, totally unrelated to the subject of the pic.

 

dembotoz

(16,922 posts)
25. remember her next time you laugh at the walmart people website
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:11 AM
Apr 2013

saw her photo thing online last night

life is easier for pretty people
always has been

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
32. Well...
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 10:26 AM
Apr 2013

life isn't always easier for pretty people, speaking as a formerly pretty person.


When I was 25 I was slim, and pretty enough so that guys ogled and tried to pick me up, and women often were quite nasty to me.

Life wasn't that much easier back then.

So now, I'm 60 and zaftig.

Women call me "dear" or "hon", and the snottiness is gone.

I still have nice eyes, so that's what men look at, but they no longer ogle me or try to pick me up.

bluestate10

(10,942 posts)
114. Your conclusion is a fallacy.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 10:25 PM
Apr 2013

I obviously don't know what you look like and you don't know what I look like. I have known plenty of lonely attractive people. Looks can be a burden and a blessing, with only the luck of a draw determining which treatment an attractive person gets. Essentially, there are no differences from the experiences of a less attractive person other than the attractive person faces those experiences with a more beautiful face and/or body.

BainsBane

(57,751 posts)
119. There is significant evidence
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 11:28 PM
Apr 2013

Showing that better looking people earn more, get jobs more quickly, are more readily promoted, etc. It's simply a fact.

Poll_Blind

(23,864 posts)
28. Couple of things...
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:38 AM
Apr 2013

First, this is the kind of body shape I find attractive. My second to last girlfriend looked almost exactly like her except she had her septum pierced with a bull nose ring in it, black hair and dressed in punk clothes. Otherwise, very, very similar looking and body shape. I have only dated one girl in my entire life who was not bigger.

Second, there's something "fishy" about these photos. For instance, I'm wondering how many photos she is snapping in order to cull out these.

Third, this is in America and America is the Land of the Obese. Since I'm attracted to bigger women I'm incredibly sensitive to situations in which people are rude to either them or anyone else (including men) because of their body size. The only time I felt I was in a culture which actively made obese people feel "unwelcome", for lack of a better word, was the UK and some parts of Europe.

I'm not sure I have a huge point to make but while I understand that people who are larger are discriminated against, made sport of, etc., these pictures don't conclusively indicate anything. If she was wearing a hidden camera or something and captured comments or whatnot, I think I would view that with a lot more weight than somewhat ambiguous still images.

You see that guy in the second image from the top? That could be me. People might look at that picture and think "Oh, look at that man staring dismissively at the fat lady!" but in reality that guy could be glancing at her because he thinks she's hot. I'm much more handsome than that guy, am usually tanned and...not so bad looking if you get my drift. I've met a woman, briefly looked her up and down when we met and later had them somehow work into conversation a kind of apology for being overweight. Honey, I'm looking you up and down because you're smokin' hot.

Somebody looks at us and we interpret extrapolate a judgement from it. But we're projecting what that judgement is even when it might not be a judgement at all. A woman could be perceived to be staring at fat calves but in reality she's wondering "I wonder where she got those shorts?"

PB

polly7

(20,582 posts)
31. I'm always amazed at how cruel people can be.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 10:20 AM
Apr 2013

Good for her ..... I hope this brings her lots of support. Those people who look down on her - especially that cop - aren't even in her league as far as what really makes for decent human beings.

Mean people suck!

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
62. except they are not being cruel
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 02:44 PM
Apr 2013

they are sneering, if that, behind her back, not trying to make sure she knows they think she is hideous. Even the cop is playing a prank she is not supposed to notice, and there is no telling if he doesn't play that trick on any distracted short person he walks by. But in any case - the "victim" was not supposed to know about the trick.

ProudToBeBlueInRhody

(16,399 posts)
83. Except there is a camera pointed at them on a tripod
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 04:27 PM
Apr 2013

Which they can clearly see....

You don't think a cop doesn't realize where that tripod is pointed and who probably set it up pointed at themselves?

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
33. Self centered paranoia
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 10:41 AM
Apr 2013

and I'll bet if a thinner person conducted this same "experiment" s/he would get the same sorts of photos.

Like someone above said, perhaps the camera caught one moment in time when someone cast an inquiring/curious glance at the person taking self photos.

Would she have felt better had she been totally ignored? Probably not. I would bet that would be yet another thing to whine about...OMG!!! Fat people are INVISIBLE!!!!

So unless she has some sort of hotline into the minds of the people she's accusing of being mean and nasty, she has no justification for assuming they're focused on her appearance, although the woman passing by in the next to last photo might be thinking, "OMG what a fucking gawdawful blouse she's wearing!!!!"

People can dress how they want to, but they shouldn't be surprised when others wonder why on earth someone would want to wear clothing two sizes too small...

In any case, I also...like many others here...think she's reading her own meanings into the expressions of other people, AND I wonder how many of these photos she had to take in order to get a few that support the negative view she has of herself.

HappyMe

(20,277 posts)
38. I think you're right about her reading stuff into
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 12:51 PM
Apr 2013

people's expressions.

I did notice that most of the people in the photos are dressed warmly, and she is not. If I have a winter cap and a jacket on, I'm going to glance at someone that doesn't look dressed for the chilly weather.

 

Hell Hath No Fury

(16,327 posts)
34. I am not so sure about some of those photos --
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 12:37 PM
Apr 2013

I did photography for many years. Much of that work was done with subjects appearing in public spaces Any photographer will tell you that the mere presence of a camera will impact a scene. I am especially doubtful about the photos of her standing still in the middle of a busy downtown sidewalk. That alone would cause someone to react. If she had her camera set up on a tripod, she becomes that much more out-of-the-ordinary in that space. The shot with the officer, that looks like someone photobombing her picture, not making fun of her because of her weight.

I am not saying in anyway that large people are NOT looked at differently in public -- I have seen it first hand -- but I am not sure the photos are proving what she thinks they are in each case.

Response to Pelican (Original post)

RebelOne

(30,947 posts)
39. That first photo of the blonde supposedly taking a snapshot of her
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 12:52 PM
Apr 2013

I don't believe is correct. The blonde is taking a photo of the man standing behind her and he is not sneering but smiling into the camera.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
46. She did admit
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 01:18 PM
Apr 2013

that the blonde lady was taking a photo of the guy standing behind her, but she stated that, instead of posing for the camera, he is sneering at her behind her back.

She's nuts. I don't see a sneer on that guy.

In fact, he seems to be cursed with the same problem I am, which is that whenever a camera is pointed at me, I get the worst expressions on my face at the exact moment the photo is taken.

Honestly, she needs help for her issues...

 

loli phabay

(5,580 posts)
53. lol I have the same issue, hence I try for non facial shots whenever I can.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 02:10 PM
Apr 2013

Meant to add it helps that my figure is smoking hot

ellie

(6,975 posts)
40. I saw this on Salon
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 12:55 PM
Apr 2013

and I can't believe these people gawking at her can't mind their own damn business. What difference is it to them if she is overweight? And she is not that overweight. People suck.

 

Blue_Tires

(57,596 posts)
128. Which guy in the first photo?
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 09:35 AM
Apr 2013

The guy in the red-brimmed baseball cap *could* be looking at her, but it is nowhere near definitive (I'd like to have some context of the event going on around them)...The guy behind her is just posing for an unrelated photo...

The girl and her mom? I see a woman looking to cross the street and a typical disaffected teenager who could be looking at anything...

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
47. It seems to me like she's seeing what she wants to see.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 01:20 PM
Apr 2013

And perhaps even fishing for exactly the reactions she later criticizes. Standing in the middle of a busy sidewalk with a blank expression on your face is bound to get you a few looks, no matter what you look like. And it's very easy to make a passing glance look like a mean stare when you freeze it in a photograph.

That man sitting behind her at the table could easily be looking around for the waiter or a friend. He's not necessarily even looking at her in the photo.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
51. Fishing...exactly
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 01:59 PM
Apr 2013

I wonder if she has a burst mode on her camera which allows her to take multiple shots she can pick through later to get the most incriminating ones.

Or maybe a movie mode that allows her to stop and grab particular still photos.

Because as anybody who's ever tried to take candid photos of people/kids/animals knows, they don't tend to stay still long enough to get a photo unless they're posed.

How did she manage to capture totally random expressions, apparently as soon as they happened?

PS...and for anyone who believes those people were being "mean" based on alleged expressions on their faces, I've often found myself gazing in the general direction of someone, not even seeing them, while thinking of something totally unrelated to that person. And I've been asked, rather snottily, "What the hell are YOU looking at???" To which my reply, if I weren't also a rude asshole, would be, "Don't flatter yourself...you're not interesting enough for me to care about".



Quantess

(27,630 posts)
49. With the exception of the cop holding the hat,
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 01:26 PM
Apr 2013

and maybe one of the women who looked at her, she's imagining things.
How many self portraits did she take where nobody was doing anything interesting at all, that she doesn't bother showing?

BainsBane

(57,751 posts)
55. These comments would be an interesting addition to her work
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 02:23 PM
Apr 2013

If she shows in a gallery. Seems to me she's accomplished something quite interesting.

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
57. Everyone's staring at her from behind
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 02:27 PM
Apr 2013

Chick probably has some weird sign on her back.

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
58. Part of the issue I'm seeing is that she's standing in the middle of a walkway in NYC
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 02:28 PM
Apr 2013

that screams tourist and pain in the ass. I live in DC and get so frustrated with tourists riding the metro because they just kinda gawk after getting off the escalator. Also, they tend to stand on the left side of the escalator holding up traffic (in DC people who stand, stand to the right, the walkers go down the left... it's how it's done Monday-Friday).

The other is, she's obviously insecure about her body. I would say the looks have more to do with her being, again, in the way, than her weight.

Lastly, the photos aren't that good. There's really no value to them, even though she has proclaimed them to be a project. Even in a gallery, seeing the series all together, I'd be like, meh. Plus, she's not really following the rule of thirds, which often makes for the most pleasing photographic compositions.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
59. So...
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 02:34 PM
Apr 2013

You're walking down the sidewalk on your way to work and this lady is standing/sitting/posing there in front of her tripod, shutter clattering. I think most of us would look at the camera, look at the lady and perhaps walk by with a puzzled look.

The cops? Who knows what is up with that. How long had she been standing there? Was she interacting with passersby?

Capt. Obvious

(9,002 posts)
61. Everyone in this thread is looking at her
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 02:42 PM
Apr 2013

and thinking about her.

This just proves her project. She deserves a grant.

BainsBane

(57,751 posts)
64. I was just saying that
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 02:53 PM
Apr 2013

It's definitely a grant winning concept, perhaps from Creative Capital.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
71. What...
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 03:50 PM
Apr 2013

she deserves a grant for "proving" something we all pretty much figure out by the age of five?

That people glance, look, gawk, or stare at others...?

Cool.

Maybe for her next "project" she can prove that when you drop something....

hold on...

it falls to the ground!!!

OMG! Gravity!! Who'd a thunk?

sigh...



BainsBane

(57,751 posts)
87. If you want to understand
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 04:51 PM
Apr 2013

Read HereSince1968's post above. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2751925
I've written many successful grant proposals in the arts. This is a great concept. In fact, looking at her resume she has quite a few grants and many exhibitions (group and solo).

 

opiate69

(10,129 posts)
74. I'm just gonna fix that headline real quick...
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 04:03 PM
Apr 2013

"Woman does strange thing in public, gets strange looks. Comes to illogical conclusion confirming her bias."

 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
75. How does she know when to trigger the camera?
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 04:12 PM
Apr 2013
I'd assume she cant see the people behind her and getting those shots by luck with a timer would be pretty much impossible. I'm perplexed.

Orrex

(67,093 posts)
76. It seems more likely that the camera takes a ton of photos
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 04:14 PM
Apr 2013

And then she cherry-picks the ones that match her intent.

Much like professional sports photographers taking 500 pics in hope of getting that one good shot of the champ KO'ing the challenger.

 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
81. Yeah. I spose that makes sense. But...
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 04:20 PM
Apr 2013

the article said something about getting the film developed. Thats one hell of an expensive thing to do.

murray hill farm

(3,650 posts)
80. I think that people are looking at her because...
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 04:19 PM
Apr 2013

they see the tripod..and maybe photographer are photographing her and then look quizically at her to see who they are photographing. Maybe then they have seperate thoughts and reactions to the person, but that is why they look.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
77. People always look when other people take pictures of others or themselves
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 04:16 PM
Apr 2013

I don't see the big deal. Except for what the two cops did, that wasn't right.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
90. When you hold an object or strike a pose in public
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 05:12 PM
Apr 2013

people (shocking I know) will turn their heads to look and see what you are doing. It is part of our curious nature.

ecstatic

(35,074 posts)
91. You can't assume people are thinking nasty things
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 05:18 PM
Apr 2013

Except for the cops, of course. They probably have a ton of things on their minds that have nothing to do with her. I'd like to see if the reactions would have been any different if an attractive person did the same experiment.

Response to Pelican (Original post)

RebelOne

(30,947 posts)
100. My daughter was much larger than her,
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 08:13 PM
Apr 2013

but eventually she got gastric bypass and lost 200 pounds. But I never noticed anyone staring at her because of her size. I think this lady is just paranoid.

tridim

(45,358 posts)
127. I certainly wouldn't make fun of her, but...
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 08:13 AM
Apr 2013

if she listened to me I would help her gain the confidence to lose her unhealthy weight through diet and exercise. I've done it before.

I understand what she thinks she's trying to do by photographing herself, but honestly it's pretty much a waste of time. That time could be better spent getting healthy.

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