To those who try to take others down with them because they have given up...

[Politicub]

I'm over people who are throwing in the towel about our country.

I don't get why they even bother to complain if all hope is lost for them.

There has never been a time in any civilization when there has not been a struggle - whether economic, political, social, or all three.

And it will always be thus.

And to all of the people who have resigned themselves to a life defined by woe and misery, you should thank people like Harvey Milk, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and millions of others who joined them every single day. Read and ruminate on their writings and speeches.

Without these people carrying the people who have given up on their backs, the human condition wouldn't have improved to the point it is today.

And it has improved for many. To not see it or admit it is a sign of being delusional or disingenuous or both.

What a waste of time and energy to endeavor to bring others down. Shame on you.


-----
The above was written by me as a reply to another thread. I'm finding myself articulating this sentiment so often that I figured I would give it it's own thread.

[newfie11]

1. I think back to the 60's

I was in LA when Watts erupted, when Robert Kennedy was killed, and the on going Vietnam War.

During that time I was trying to get through college (free then).
My dad had passed away and I knew this was my only hope for a good job.

Yes there was a great deal of turmoil. I remember walking down Santa Monica Blvd and a building blowing up from a Molotov cocktail.

But I had hope and I did graduate and life got better.

Today's world scares the crap out of me for my Grandkids. They will graduate with massive dept and will they be able to find a job? There goes their credit.

Yes Vietnam was wrong, very wrong, but Johnson at least could get things through congress.
Our congress now for the most part, is only in it for money. Many are bought and paid for with the what's in it for me attitude! They lie with a straight face and don't care if their caught!

Yes I am concerned as hell what's happening. To many people have no idea what is happening. The news is useless, if they do listen. Many listen to fox. Most don't listen to anything but friend of a friend etc.

Enough of my rant

[Politicub]

6. I believe your grandkids will surprise us all

You lived through some major upheaval and made it through to the other side. And you are better off for it.

You are a strong role model from which your kids and grandchildren can draw strength.

I'm viewing a lot of things as of late through the lens of chronic illness. I believe life is to be lived since none of us are guaranteed another day. You only get a certain number of trips around the sun.

[newfie11]

9. Thanks Politicub

[bluestate10]

28. There have been many, many times in human and american history when the economy and

almost everything else was bad. Many people complained about what could have been and all but gave up. Fewer people resolved to push forward and come up with new ideas or simply to just persevere. The second group is why humankind moved forward to a more promising future.

[Politicub]

37. +1

[leveymg]

51. Don't confuse expressions of disgust with resignation to fate. What you're seeing is the signs of

previously loyal Democrats reaching the limits of their tolerance for the domestic politics of triangulation and the foreign policy of neocon intervention.

We're signalling the leadership that they are in danger of repeating 1968: losing the Left and coming within a few short steps of insurrection within the Party and in the country.

[BethanyQuartz]

2. I can throw in the towel over this country and still not give up

It just involves moving to a country where I think I can make more of a difference.

[Politicub]

3. You gotta do what you gotta do

But if you go seeking a society without major flaws to address, you will be sorely disappointed.

[BethanyQuartz]

4. All societies have major flaws to address

And the ones I'm thinking of joining have some of the most serious ones. Because of that perhaps, many of their people are the most politically active. Far more than US citizens.

[Rosco T.]

22. There is a specific term for that..

... deserter.

[BethanyQuartz]

23. I can live with that just fine.

[bluestate10]

29. But can you live with the results? The extreme Left just doesn't seem to get that their

"principles" are often the fucking reason why the country and the less powerful end up in bad shape. Some progressive voices rail against President Obama's choices for the economy. Yet, they don't think once about people who voted for Nader in 2000 and launched us on 8 dark years. The alleged "progressives" don't think deeply about the cost of them sitting on their asses in during the 2010 midterms because they got 60% of the change they wanted instead of the whole 100%. Despite the clutched throated panic of some prominent DU "progressives", I have optimism about the 2014 midterms. My optimism stems from the fact that Independents won't be fooled by republicans again, they tried republicans during the 2010 midterms and got nothing but agony for their faith. "Progressives" can sit at home during the 2014 midterms, luckily, we won't need those weak kneed sunshine lovers during the deadly knife fight that we are headed into.

[BethanyQuartz]

32. It isn't Nader who launched 8 dark years

It was election fraud. Both in 2000 and 2004, coupled with the refusal of both Democrats and Republicans to look outside their safe zones for candidates either within or outside their own parties.

You guys went with Obama, who from the beginning was almost indistinguishable from Bush. And now this board is rip-roaring with indignation. Which is great...except will enough people learn from it?

I'm not saying you must put a third party candidate in. Fine, you want to stick with the Democrats, that's great. But stop voting for Democrats who act like Republicans or stop complaining when they go and do exactly what the Republicans would do if they were in office. Because it makes no sense.

[jazzimov]

44. The fraud wouldn't have worked had it not been for Nader.

As for your statement that Obama "was almost indistinguishable from Bush" - are you fucking insane? Obama is and always has been completely DIFFERENT from Bush!

[BethanyQuartz]

52. A lot of us wouldn't have backed Nader if Clinton hadn't destroyed Dem credibility

Don't stoop to personal attacks. I will explain why Obama is like Bush:

Gitmo not closed
Extraordinary rendition continues
Drone Strikes
Energy wars
Expanded and very secretive surveillance
Secretive in general
Hasn't brought Bush era criminals up on war crimes or human rights violations charges
CIA almost certainly screwing around in Venezuela as usual trying to mess with elections
US as of what I read last night won't acknowledge Venezuela's election results


So many more things I can't list them but many have been mentioned, discussed, and griped about here just in a few days by you guys yourselves. And I love you for it. Because I hope that means that in 2014 and 2016 you will stop backing these Repukes in blue and will actually back some candidates who will bring real change.

[madokie]

5. You have no idea just how much I needed to read this this morning

Thanks

[OneGrassRoot]

7. I hear you...

While I definitely understand others' despair, hopelessness and choice to give up, it bothers me when anyone condemns, belittles or interferes with someone else's choice to have hope and keep trying.

[Politicub]

8. +1

[HughBeaumont]

10. Our spirit and pluck isn't the problem.

The dwindling amount of avenues necessary for serious change, particularly economic change, are America's problem.

I think in the past 20 years, we've made giant strides in societal change, and we continue to do so. Part of that is the growing rejection of the Fundamentalist right's patriarchal social agenda, driven by the revisit of the figures you mentioned; we're not governing our lives on Bible literalism any longer.

It's economic change that America particularly sucks at, and that's not really in our control anymore.

When you have an economic and human system where a person's success is almost entirely tethered to how gainfully they're employed, THAT's a major problem.

When the cost of economic necessities (education, health care, housing, transportation, food, etc) continually outpaces the middle/working/poor's ability to pay them with a wage that hasn't risen in real dollars since 1979, THAT's a major problem.

America by and large is still under the spell of Reaganomics and Horatio Alger. America is still in love with the counterproductive ideas of "rugged individualism", "laissez-faire", "Trickle Down", "austerity" . . . this is a recipe for disaster, and it's apparent that no one in the public or private sector is going to help right this toxic path.

Hard as it is to believe, we're being run by people who seem to think there's nothing wrong with introducing conditions that leads to economic collapse 90% of the time.

If we're not vigilant, we're not going to prosper. Change can only happen when you know what it is that NEEDS to change.

[raccoon]

49. Great post--deserves its own thread. nt

[redqueen]

11. Yeah, feeling hopeless sometimes is one thing.

Giving up entirely just isn't an option.

That said, think it's understandable to give up on on devoting a large amount of energy to some things because there are so many battles to fight.

It's the people who do nothing at all who I don't understand.

[Politicub]

12. Right there with you

And doing something instead of nothing always lifts my mood.

I think we're all guilty of falling into despair now and then, though.

[Populist_Prole]

13. Sounds like my stubborn willpower-less friends who tried and failed to eat/live healthy

Always trying every which way to get me to throw in the towel and cheat and let myself go. Misery loves company I guess.

Not to hijack the thread; but the OP's point is well taken. Giving up is just being the ultimate sore loser, and is music to the ears of the bad guys.

[Politicub]

14. I believe it comes from the same place

And I wish I had taken care of my body better.

Our health is the most valuable thing we have, and I didn't get that until recently when I started having major neurological issues.

Not that I'm complaining. It has given me a better appreciation for life. It's just a bummer way to learn a lesson.

[treestar]

15. I'm with you

I hate hearing that defeatist talk. And the exaggeration of how bad things are.

[Cha]

16. Glad you made this an OP, Politicub. There needed

to be an antidote to all the doom and gloom spreading like a contagious disease.

Excellent examples you gave of those who wouldn't know the meaning of gving up. They believed in Hope and Hard Work. Bless all their hearts who have gone before us so we can Carry On!

[Occulus]

17. Have you ever known need, neglect, or despair?

[Cha]

18. Of course, I have. And, I've known hope for the future.

[Occulus]

19. How lucky for you. Some don't have a lot of hope.

Some don't have any.

Would you kindly stop minimizing their own experiences and situations by NOT calling their very real responses and fears "doom and gloom" in need of "an antidote"?

It would be nice.

[Cha]

20. I'm not mimimizing anything.. that's all on you.

[Occulus]

21. Oh, in what way?

[Politicub]

38. Thank you, Cha

That means a lot.

[randome]

24. When Carmen Reinhart was on the Daily Show (or was it Colbert? I forget)...

...I took the opportunity to point out to my daughters that it's their generation -with people like Nate Silver and Carmen Reinhart and others- who are taking charge of the world and will remake it.

One of my daughters chided me by saying, "I just KNEW you were going to say that!"

People's personal lives have been ruined by the dreadful Republican economy and it's important not to dismiss that as we try to keep people afloat and find opportunities for them.

But I look forward to the 'old, white men' dying out and being pushed out and the new generation will do just fine.

[Politicub]

39. And the Obama generation is just getting started

I'm a gen-Xr who grew up during the Reagan administration, and this is better.

[sheshe2]

25. Thank you Politicub.

I am glad you posted this as an OP!

I have hope for our future. Hope for our children's future. Many, as you stated in you OP, have fought for America, gave their lives to make this a better place for us all.

I have seen first hand what many young adults are doing to improve our way of life. Owner-Worker cooperatives, this idea is working and it is spreading. We can take back America. If they haven't given up, why should we.

[MineralMan]

26. Good post! nt

[babylonsister]

27. There are some people here who have far from given up.

They try to foment strife instead of coming up with solutions, or giving credit where it is due.
It apparently is not a waste of their time and energy, and those that agree with them.

I agree with you ftr.

[Number23]

30. K&R The name of this forum really should be changed to "Misery Loves Company"

[bluestate10]

33. The misery crowd seem to have taken over. They seem to post all the time and hang out in the

Lounge patting each other on the back. But at the end of the day, they don't make one bit of change because all they see are reasons not to try, not the small possibilities that can be enlarged into great victories. They have no use for me, I have no use for them. I am a disciplined optimist. I do get discouraged, but my response is to fucking work harder.

[Number23]

35. Oh yes, they took over DU a few years ago. The Greatest Page reflects that

So many people have left I'm sometimes amazed that the place still exists. And DU has never had much diversity, but the cacophony of endlessly moronic whining has driven off so many of the few posters of color that regularly posted here that I'm really surprised that this is not distressing to more people than it is. But I feel that is telling in itself.

You're right, at the end of the day it doesn't change anything. And as long as the Moaners get their recs (which I have long suspected is the only thing they truly care about) then nothing has to change.

[Politicub]

40. Right on!

Disciplined optimist. I may start to use that.

[kentuck]

31. What some call "throwing in the towel"...

Others may call "fighting the status quo" and attempting to change the downward slide.

[bluestate10]

34. Please explain. Do you have any ideas that will work, actually work? nt

[kentuck]

36. Here is a general outline:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2761829

[JNelson6563]

46. Bitching on the internet, so effective!1!

lolz

[Le Taz Hot]

47. I hear you, Kentuck.

This whole "working for change from within" isn't quite working out like it was supposed to. Why? Because We the People are locked out of the system.

[Hekate]

41. Good OP, Politicub.

KnR

[woo me with science]

42. I know! These people are such DOWNERS!

All those Poutager and hissyfitters, taking everyone DOWN with them: "I want a pony!" "I want food and shelter!" "Waaaaah!"


Here's a perfect example of what you are talking about
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2762033

Cutting Meals on Wheels?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022760086

Child poverty rankings (US just above Romania)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022663781

Incomes Flat in Recovery, but Not for the 1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014400736

Top 1% get 121% of income gains since 2009 (100% of new income + 21% from your old income)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022384139

U.S. corporate profits stronger than ever, workers' wages fallen to lowest-ever share of GDP (CNN)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021922334

U.S. Income Inequality Now Worse Than Many Latin American Countries
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022268073

Ranks of working poor increasing
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022200197

Inequality Rages as Dwindling Wages Lock Millions in Poverty
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022198286

The Middle Class In America Is Being Wiped Out – Here Are 60 Facts That Prove It
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022144851

Child poverty rates increase unabated
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022268450

40 Percent of Americans Now Make Less than 1968 Minimum Wage
http://www.democraticunderground.com/111631016

Corporate Profits Have Grown By 171 Percent Under ‘Anti-Business’ Obama
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014372334

US poverty on track to reach 46-year high; suburbs, underemployed workers, children hit hard
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002998131

Poverty, hunger among retirees increasing
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002748342

The Economy is "Recovering" By Creating More Low-Wage Jobs... Increasingly Filled By Graduates
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022602162

"Recovery" in US is lifting profits, but not adding jobs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014414149

Obama to use pension funds of ordinary Americans to pay for bank mortgage settlements
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002205218

What Recovery? Across America, People in Distressed Cities and Small Towns Face Economic Catastrophe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022545596

Real wages decline; literally no one notices
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11172387

Wall Street Soars with Wealth as Wages Stagnate, Jobs Remain in a Slump
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12526154

Wages for bottom 90% declined 1.2% during 2009-2011 recovery, top 1% income grew 8.2%
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022271466

Three Minimum Wage Jobs Needed To Afford Two-Bedroom Apartment
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022578738

Wages have fallen to a record low as a share of America’s gross domestic product.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022183930





Lots and lots of Third Way pontification and lectures on display tonight.





Keep talking, Third Way. Keep showing America what you *really* think...

[Le Taz Hot]

48. +1

PERFECT response! This whole "little Miss Mary Sunshine" thing doesn't really work when you're hungry and homeless, does it?

[woo me with science]

50. Yes, not when you're hungry and homeless, and also

Last edited Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:13 AM - Edit history (1)

also not when your desperate grip on the precipice of that abyss is being kicked at, steadily, by those in well-polished Bruno Magli shoes. And that describes millions and millions of us in this country.


Keep talking, Third Way. Keep showing us what you really think of us.

[Politicub]

57. Homelessness needs to be addressed, I agree

But actively working to demoralize others to the point of quitting is shameful.

[JI7]

43. some people have an agenda

their actual goal is to prevent what they claim to want.

[JNelson6563]

45. The cynics and fatalists are out in force.

All I can think of is that misery loves company. It seems many a miserable sod has found DU to be a comfortable home. I feel sorry for them as they live in a very dark world.

Julie

[tridim]

53. Dead-ender pessimism must release endorphins in some people

Because otherwise I don't have a clue why people do it.

There is no reward for anyone involved.

[justhanginon]

54. I find it increasingly hard not to

"throw in the towel" when absolutely nothing will change until the people we send to congress are no longer corrupt, whether it be in the form of money, power or just reelection . I always thought that being a member of congress meant that you first and foremost represented the good of the people. Instead it seems to have devolved into how can I keep this job for life by any means necessary. I have written my congress people regularly and just get stock canned answers back. Same crap that is on their web sites. Unfortunately, I do not own a money truck so I cannot even think about getting their attention beyond that. There is so little humanity left in these people that it is frightening.
I haven't thrown in the towel yet and will continue writing them but sometimes it does indeed feel tempting to just chuck the whole damn thing.

[Scurrilous]

55. K & R

[DCBob]

56. Those types remind me of the kid losing at checkers and throws the board on the floor.

childish immature mentality.