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eridani

(51,907 posts)
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 01:56 PM Apr 2013

I Am A Republican … Can We Talk About A Single Payer System?

By David May, M.D.
American College of Cardiology Touch Blog, April 23, 2013

I am a Republican. For those who know me that is not a surprise. I live in a red state. I have never voted for a Democratic presidential candidate. I can field strip, clean and reassemble a Remington 12-gauge pump blindfolded. And on top of it, I think we should talk about having a single payer national health care plan. The reason is quite simple. In my view, we already have one; we just don’t take advantage of it.

Firstly, Medicare and the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) are de facto setting all of the rules now. They are a single payer system. When we go to lobby the Hill, we lobby Congress and CMS. Talking to Blue Cross, Aetna, Cigna and United Health care is essentially a waste of time. All the third party payers do is play off the Medicare rules to their advantage and profit. They have higher premiums, pay a somewhat higher benefit and have a significantly higher level of regulation which impedes the care of their customers. This is no longer consumer choice but effectively extortion, a less than hidden shake down in which the “choice” for a family of four is company A at $900 per month or company B at $1100 per month. The payers are simply taking advantage of the system, playing both ends against the middle.

http://www.pnhp.org/print/news/2013/april/i-am-a-republican-can-we-talk-about-a-single-payer-system

46 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I Am A Republican … Can We Talk About A Single Payer System? (Original Post) eridani Apr 2013 OP
It's the only rational choice. dawg Apr 2013 #1
An acquaintance here at work Jazzgirl Apr 2013 #6
David May needs to sell his mercymechap Apr 2013 #2
The thing with single payer is that it's a middle of the road plan. Cleita Apr 2013 #5
Just because it's "GUBMINT!" n/t DissidentVoice Apr 2013 #12
The way the British got their system is by having a lot of their infrastructure trashed during WW II eridani Apr 2013 #18
Or Australia... DissidentVoice May 2013 #22
Unfortunately I have a lot of experience OwnedByCats May 2013 #24
I hear much the same from Canadians DissidentVoice May 2013 #27
Trivial difference zipplewrath May 2013 #29
Okay, I'll play your game with you. Why is nationalized health care so bad? Cleita May 2013 #30
I don't think I said it was zipplewrath May 2013 #32
Then what are you doing? If you aren't arguing with me, then Cleita May 2013 #35
Just sayin' zipplewrath May 2013 #36
Now that you explained what you were thinking. Cleita May 2013 #37
I've been predicting for a long time zipplewrath May 2013 #38
We have a national health insurance plan in South Korea davidpdx May 2013 #44
Thanks for your information. Cleita May 2013 #45
Actually most Dems don't Yo_Mama May 2013 #43
This message was self-deleted by its author MostlyAmused Apr 2013 #3
K & R for truth... Wounded Bear Apr 2013 #4
That link is no longer working Autumn Colors Apr 2013 #7
Here, try this... subterranean Apr 2013 #16
Thanks (nt) Autumn Colors Apr 2013 #19
The fact he knows how to take apart, clean and put back together a shotgun outside... Turborama Apr 2013 #8
I believe he is attempting to establish his bona fides as a Right Winger. Fla Dem Apr 2013 #9
Tribal signalling Recursion Apr 2013 #17
I can field strip and clean a Suburu Outback or Honda Prius blindfolded. FSogol May 2013 #33
Maybe more "I buy organic food and union-made clothing" Recursion May 2013 #34
No idea, GOPers think they are the only ones that own guns? Rex May 2013 #28
There are plenty of DUers that believe the same thing. Common Sense Party May 2013 #41
I live within walking distance of the Canadian border DissidentVoice Apr 2013 #10
Unfortunately it is just as likely that the rethugs will never settle with the idea of any jwirr Apr 2013 #11
Half a loaf from Obama... DissidentVoice May 2013 #23
So am I - I have been lobbying here in MN for years and I still think it is the best we can get. jwirr May 2013 #46
If a Republican can publicly call for single-payer, LWolf May 2013 #25
He tried to get the GOP on board DissidentVoice May 2013 #26
He couldn't even get Democrats on board. LWolf May 2013 #39
What I meant... DissidentVoice May 2013 #40
And now there's a Republican willing to bring it up, LWolf May 2013 #42
Fix the food, water and air...... DeSwiss Apr 2013 #13
Most govt insurance is already managed and run by the private insurance companies.... cbdo2007 Apr 2013 #14
Now this is interesting. This is a repost on PNHP from cardiosource.org Ruby the Liberal Apr 2013 #15
This is what has to happen. woo me with science Apr 2013 #20
"we need to quit judging policies on whether they are put forward by Democrats or Republicans" ProSense May 2013 #31
That is one of my favorite go-to sites. K&R n/t OneGrassRoot Apr 2013 #21

Jazzgirl

(3,744 posts)
6. An acquaintance here at work
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 02:18 PM
Apr 2013

who had worked with a woman who didn't have insurance and had a devasting illness. Someone started a collection to help pay for the lady's medical bills. The acquaintance thought it was unfair for anyone to be taking up a collection to help the woman because she didn't bother to get insurance. Now mind you, this acquaintance didn't know anything about the womans private life but decided the woman should have bought insurance. She felt she shouldn't be made to feel "obligated" to help this woman.

That's the mentality we are up against. It is sad. Single payer now.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
5. The thing with single payer is that it's a middle of the road plan.
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 02:18 PM
Apr 2013

The capitalist private health care sector is intact other than the insurance companies, who really perform no service but to make profits for themselves. The only thing the government does is collect the money to pay the health care providers for it and set some regulations up to maintain the quality of health care.

A really left wing national health plan would be like England where all doctors and other health care providers are employees of the government and all hospitals and clinics are government run. Single payer is not any of that. What we have at present is the extreme right wing version of marketplace economics dealing in life and death matters that they have no business in.

I never understood why right wingers would be against single payer as it is very market place oriented.

eridani

(51,907 posts)
18. The way the British got their system is by having a lot of their infrastructure trashed during WW II
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 10:10 PM
Apr 2013

--so that only the government had the capacity to run health care at the time. Don't think we want to go that route, even though the British system is the cheapest among those of developed countries. The US is more like Canada, with provinces and states having far more independence that is common for British political subunits.

DissidentVoice

(813 posts)
22. Or Australia...
Thu May 2, 2013, 02:02 AM
May 2013

Australia has six states (Victoria, New South Wales, Queensland, Tasmania, South Australia, Western Australia) and two territories (Australian Capital Territory, Northern Territory). They have universal coverage.

Britain and New Zealand are both unitary states who cover everyone.

France and Germany are also federal states who cover everyone.

I disagree with you...I think it's going to take the current non-system being totally trashed by people refusing en masse to pay these outrageous costs to build something entirely new.

Trying to build on the current Rube Goldberg setup is like trying to shine shit.

OwnedByCats

(805 posts)
24. Unfortunately I have a lot of experience
Thu May 2, 2013, 07:41 AM
May 2013

with Britain's system. I say unfortunately because in order for me to have had the experience, I had to have medical issues, same with family and friends. In my experience: I really really wish we had what they have. It's not perfect (no system is) but a million times better than here for so many reasons it would take me all day to list. I went from having excellent care to coming back home and having none. I just cannot afford to see a doctor. I could maybe once or twice, but I have a lot of issues that would not be cleared up in one visit. I would further have to pay for specialists and testing and I just can't pay for all that. The insurance my husband and I could get through his employer is not affordable. By the time I paid the premiums, which would be a huge burden on it's own, I would have nothing left to meet the copays. I know ACA is not fully implemented yet, but I'm not a huge fan based on what I've read of it. I will have to wait and see to make a better educated assessment. I wanted single payer, as I think most of us do, so I was disappointed with what I perceive ACA to be about - but again, I'll need to see it in action before I criticize too thoroughly.

My mother wrote a nasty note on her health insurance bill the other day. My dad just retired due to health reasons but he's not 65 yet. His former employer paid a huge chunk of his premium - my dad paid $100 a month, his employer paid $1,100. When he retired, of course as he is no longer an employee they were not going to be paying that premium anymore, so my dad has to pay $1,200 a month and of course his disability payments are not as much as what he was making at his job. They are getting a cheaper policy in a few months but in the meantime, it's $1200. My mother wrote "I hope we'll still get to eat!". Ouch lol

DissidentVoice

(813 posts)
27. I hear much the same from Canadians
Thu May 2, 2013, 12:21 PM
May 2013

They cannot believe we keep such a barbaric non-system in place.

I tell them that even though they have a Conservative majority in Parliament and Stephen Harper as Prime Minister, they have "leftists" in office compared with U.S. Republicans.

The Republican Party is more like the British National Front.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Front

It is still going to take a grass-roots revolt to bring this non-system down.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
29. Trivial difference
Thu May 2, 2013, 12:27 PM
May 2013

Once the government is the "only" customer, they effectively own the industry. Their names may not be on the paychecks, but they can have ALOT of say about how the money is spent. Single payer is nationalized healthcare.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
30. Okay, I'll play your game with you. Why is nationalized health care so bad?
Thu May 2, 2013, 01:33 PM
May 2013

Everyone is covered and has access to needed health care. The doctors and other health care professionals don't have to chase after fees, thereby cutting down their administrative costs, from billers to bill collectors, and can concentrate on doing their jobs, which is medicine. Every developed country in the world has a system that is government operated on some level and that gives access to health care to all its citizens.

No matter the system, whether like the Brits, who run all the hospitals and clinics, or like the Canadians that only collect the money and pay for services, or the French who have universal health care for all and room for private health plans, it's far better than our broken down, parasitical insurance company dominated system that has made it the most costly in the world for those who can afford health care and leaves 45 million Americans without access to even minimal basic health care. Sorry the ER doesn't count. There is no way to get basic health screening and follow up treatments at the ER.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
32. I don't think I said it was
Thu May 2, 2013, 02:25 PM
May 2013

All I said was that the differences between single payer and nationalized health care were trivial. I'm not overly concerned with how universal health care is achieved, or what one calls it.

Take two steps back, put down the coffee, and realize I'm not arguing with you.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
36. Just sayin'
Thu May 2, 2013, 03:34 PM
May 2013

I'll take either single payer or nationalized health care. The differences between them are trivial. They are trivial because when you are the "only" customer (i.e. the single payer) you can dictate how the system works and what it costs to a great degree in either case. You make the case that such power can be exercised more efficiently directly rather than through regulation. I don't care to particularly argue that point as the differences to me are rather trivial. Either way it will be VASTLY more affordable than what we are doing.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
37. Now that you explained what you were thinking.
Thu May 2, 2013, 03:45 PM
May 2013

My point was that since single payer throws most of the business of delivering health care into the private sector with the govt. only managing the administrative side of it and regulating it (which it does anyway) it's a middle of the road compromise that the Libertarian and Republican right wing shouldn't object to it since universal health care has become inevitable. This ACA isn't going to cut it in the long run and any intelligent conservative should see that. The raping and pillaging of the sick, the poor and those who actually do the work of delivering health care will have to come to an end and actually those conservatives should be embracing single payer because they still will have a cut in it. Otherwise, one of these days the medical establishment is going to rebel and watch us go to a completely government national health care system and there will be no privatized medicine anymore except maybe for cosmetic or esoteric purposes.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
38. I've been predicting for a long time
Thu May 2, 2013, 04:01 PM
May 2013

Well before Obama and the ACA debacle, I've been predicting that single payer is coming and the GOP will bring it to us. The major US based international corporations are going to get tired of carrying health care as a direct cost, while competing overseas with companies that carry it as a shared cost of the infrastructure. ACA didn't do anything signficant with respect to controlling the cost of health CARE, and to a great degree didn't really do much about the cost of health insurance either, since insurance passes health care costs through.

I figure in about 15 years, because even the White House is predicting about 6% inflation per year in health care costs. Heck, you have CONGRESS talking about opting out of ACA now, at least for their staffers, because the subsidized cost is too high. In 15 years that'll be true for much of the middle class.

So the American people will turn to the business friendly GOP, especially since what the Dem's passed when they had their shot was ACA, and then will find out what the GOP wants to "mandate" that we buy.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
44. We have a national health insurance plan in South Korea
Fri May 3, 2013, 10:07 AM
May 2013

The doctors don't work for the government, but the fees are fixed. I can go to any doctor any time. I don't think it's absolutely necessary to have all doctors and health care providers be government worker or all hospitals and clinics run by the government. I pay about 70,000 Won per month (about $77) for healthcare and that's being employed. The only reason it is that high is because I own a house and a car and they factor that in (it sucks, but that's life). Japan has a very similar system to Korea's (actually I think Korea's was modeled after the Japanese system). That is one of the nice benefits of living here.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
45. Thanks for your information.
Fri May 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
May 2013

I pay over $300 for health care and I have Medicare which is government single payer for old people. It only pays for some health care so we have to supplement the rest with private insurance or cash co-pays. I think you are getting a deal. There is no reason we can't do this here other than the fact that our insurance industry has their corporate teeth clamped on our throats and won't let go.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
43. Actually most Dems don't
Fri May 3, 2013, 08:38 AM
May 2013

The idea of single-payer was a non-starter on this board back during the ACA legislative period.

The problem is that we have a system in which those working for larger corporations have no idea what insurance really costs, or how "uninsured" they really are. So single-payer (which basically must be funded from a payroll tax) looks like an "expensive" option to them.

Yet over a lifetime, these folks would wind up paying less and having far more security.

Over the last three and a half decades of my life, ins cos have wound up taking control over primary care, and it has had disastrous health consequences, yet it is hard to see due to the way our current system is structured.

What Democrats seem to support is FREE health care, but no country provides that. Single payer or any sort of public health care system in any country costs a lot, and it is paid for generally through payroll taxes and sales taxes of one form or another. Our current system has fooled people into thinking that it isn't worth paying the taxes to fund that sort of system, and the commentary here at DU during the passage of the health care reform bill convinced me of that.

Response to eridani (Original post)

Turborama

(22,109 posts)
8. The fact he knows how to take apart, clean and put back together a shotgun outside...
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 02:40 PM
Apr 2013

...has what to do with anything?

Fla Dem

(23,339 posts)
9. I believe he is attempting to establish his bona fides as a Right Winger.
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 02:45 PM
Apr 2013

It's laughable that he felt the need to add his expertise with weaponry, as if that is the only way they would judge him fairly.

DissidentVoice

(813 posts)
10. I live within walking distance of the Canadian border
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 04:49 PM
Apr 2013

I go over there a fair bit.

I have never had a Canadian tell me that they would trade their admittedly-imperfect system for our brutal non-system.

In fact, some of the locals here go across and get care THERE, especially dental. They have to pay for it, but it's a hell of a lot cheaper.

Unfortunately, as long as the Republican Party, insurance companies, Rush Limbaugh, pharmaceutical companies, etc. control the debate and scare the hell out of people with "socialism," nothing will change.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
11. Unfortunately it is just as likely that the rethugs will never settle with the idea of any
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 04:50 PM
Apr 2013

reasonable kind of health care reform. Yes, Obama did not give single payer much support either but they did not at all.

DissidentVoice

(813 posts)
23. Half a loaf from Obama...
Thu May 2, 2013, 02:04 AM
May 2013

...is better than crumbs from the Republicans, I suppose.

However, I am disappointed that Obama did not push for single-payer, but not as disappointed as I was with Bill Clinton when he rolled over and played dead in 1994.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
25. If a Republican can publicly call for single-payer,
Thu May 2, 2013, 08:57 AM
May 2013

what is Obama's fucking excuse? Whatever it is, it isn't a good one.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
39. He couldn't even get Democrats on board.
Thu May 2, 2013, 08:59 PM
May 2013

Max Baucus, for example.

He didn't try to get the GOP "on board" with single payer. It wasn't even allowed at the table as a possibility.

DissidentVoice

(813 posts)
40. What I meant...
Fri May 3, 2013, 12:51 AM
May 2013

...was that he tried to get the GOP "on board" by leaving the whole health care mess in the hands of "private enterprise" instead of pushing for single-payer.

And, yes, he did cave to Max Baucus.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
42. And now there's a Republican willing to bring it up,
Fri May 3, 2013, 08:05 AM
May 2013

and he can't entertain it because it might interfere with his "legacy" of ACA.

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
13. Fix the food, water and air......
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 04:52 PM
Apr 2013

...and we won't need so much medical care.

- But them, a lot of doctors would be out of a job.....

K&R

cbdo2007

(9,213 posts)
14. Most govt insurance is already managed and run by the private insurance companies....
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 05:04 PM
Apr 2013

so the only thing that will change is who pays the bills - the customers or the government. Seems like it would be a pretty easy switch to make.

Ruby the Liberal

(26,216 posts)
15. Now this is interesting. This is a repost on PNHP from cardiosource.org
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 07:20 PM
Apr 2013
http://blog.cardiosource.org/post/I-Am-A-Republicane280a6-Can-We-Talk-About-A-Single-Payer-System.aspx

Did they scour the web for this or did he submit it to them as well? Hrm.

Check out the responses on the original link.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
20. This is what has to happen.
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:54 PM
Apr 2013

At a certain point, we need to quit judging policies on whether they are put forward by Democrats or Republicans, and instead judge them on what they actually do to human beings.

At that point, we can break the divide-and-conquer strategy of the oligarchs and become the 99 percent.

We can stand together against the predation of 99 percent of us, by a mere one percent, and save our country.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
31. "we need to quit judging policies on whether they are put forward by Democrats or Republicans"
Thu May 2, 2013, 01:35 PM
May 2013

Maybe we could get a Congressional Republican to introduce single payer.

Imagine what that would do for seeing them as "human beings."

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