LGBT activist Robert Pinter-"the fringe left is just as strident as the tea party on the right"

[graham4anything]

LGBT activist Robert Pinter(c)-"the fringe left is just as strident as the tea party on the right"

discuss.

I take this to mean that like the alt-media(actually exactly as the alt-media) is doing attempting to tear down the democratic party and President Obama,
the extreme fringes on both sides are making themselves totally obsolete in their demands,
and in doing so, even their good ideas are now getting lost because they are demanding such purity that in the real world, is just so extreme that it makes it impossible to happen.

i.e.-no one would get within 270 electoral votes with such extreme wants and desires.
They would always get ZERO votes.

btw, the article this comes from is irrelevant to this discussion of this singular quote.

The point is others are saying what i have been saying
The 80-20 is going to prevail because the far left and the far right are meeting on the dark side of the moon, and to quote Alien(C) In space no one hears their extreme shouting and indeed, they have rendered themseleves OBSOLETE. An analog relic from the pages of history past where the past showed NEVER AGAIN will elections be stolen because of the outer
fringes of either party.

[Bonobo]

1. Cherry picked quote. Provide the link.

Unless there is a reason you don't?

[graham4anything]

3. Discuss the (c) quote please. I can understand why those that hate a 80-20 world would.

and in doing so, using a quote is using it as historical context as any other persons quotes.

i.e.

Benjamin Franklin was talking about using cameras and drones when he said
"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

but we are not discussing the beloved Benjamin here.(though I know the above quote stings so much to Obama haters and dislikers that they would love to change the subject.)

80-20.forever rendering the 20 obsolete.

[Bonobo]

6. Your 80-20 nonsense is meaningless and has no basis in fact.

I will not discuss an out-of-context quote.

[graham4anything]

8. the quote means exactly what I said it means. But have a nice Saturday. Sunny & warm.

[cali]

19. why should anyone take your word for that???

[MannyGoldstein]

41. Can you help me out? Who was it that said:

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

I keep forgetting who it was.

[Arcanetrance]

50. I've brought that point up to him before he finds a way to contort it and dismiss saying we don't

understand

[graham4anything]

71. the person who better said "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"

[MannyGoldstein]

78. And what makes one quote better than the other? nt

[graham4anything]

79. He was referring in both to using all methods to stop extremists from taking away our republic

some people see what they want and disregard the rest

[premium]

89. And you're the one that wants to disregard certain sections of the BoR. nt.

[leveymg]

48. LGBT rights used to be considered very "fringe" as well. Had it not been for the Left, progress

would never have been made for them, as well as for a number of other once reviled minorities.

I think your point is merely a prescription for acceptance of the status quo, as backward as it will eventually appear to be to most people.

[a la izquierda]

87. Are you a Scientologist?

Seriously. I've only heard the 80-20 meme from them. The "20" are SP, or subversive persons.

[premium]

88. OMFG,

I can't believe that you're defending the use of drones to kill "suspected terrorists"!!!!

Those same drones that have killed hundreds of innocent men, women, and children, what kind of a person are you?

I'm guessing that you would also approve of using drones to go after gun owners also.

Ben Franklin would slap silly if he were still around.

I'm still trying to figure why you're on a progressive site?

[madinmaryland]

97. You are right about the 80-20 split....

There are 40% on each side that will rarely or never vote for the other side. (That is your 80%)

There are 20% total that flip from one side to the other depending on how they like the candidate. There will never be 80% that agree on one side.

Period.

[CJCRANE]

2. The fringe right now encompasses most of the right...

so it's no longer a "fringe".

The "fringe left" is mostly ignored by the mainstream.

It's like comparing a megaphone with a whisper.

[Bonobo]

5. The fringe on the left the OP is talking about

used to be called Democrats.

When the Democratic Party decided (cleverly) to grab up the GREAT MIDDLE evacuated by the Republicans who were forced right by the Teabaggers, the liberals were consigned to the desert and retroactively defined as "fringe".

That's me and a lot of us.

We don't recognize, approve of or validate a Democratic Party which pursues Republican fiscal agendas and war agendas as it works social issues in order to maintain the facade of leftiness.

[graham4anything]

9. Ron & Rand Paul/David Duke/Dennis Kucinich now are working as one in the same fringe group.

two republicans/two democratic classified people

and the public records show it.

note again how you never seem to mention social issues and equality issues and just mention Ron Paul type issues that are so transparent.

proving yourself the point in question.

NO TRUE liberal or democratic voter would allign themselves with one word of what Ron Paul says.BTW, why did your hero(s) quit the arena to join a lobby group without ever getting ONE piece of legislation passed?

[Autumn]

63. Can you tell me how Dennis Kucinich is working with Ron & Rand Paul/David Duke?

Not sure what public records you found.

[graham4anything]

66. In a new lobby group that Ron Paul started (or whatever wording Ron Paul used.) Dennis is member

and Dennis is working for Fox tv now the station that Rand is on whenever he snaps his fingers.

David Duke and the JBS are personal friends of the Paul family and inter-supporters of each other, and of course, going back to Ron's literature, it was full of David Duke stuff.

There is NOT one word out of the Pauls mouths that a democratic party supporter should ever listen to.When Ashley Judd was thinking (not very seriously it turned out) of running for senate, it should have been against Rand and not Mitch. Rand is far easier to beat, and far more dangerous imho.

[Autumn]

74. Obama had had meetings and a dinner with Boehner and other fringe lunatics on the right,

and I'm sure he listened to them.

[graham4anything]

77. And Elizabeth Warren was republican and voted for Reagan and one of the Bush's.

Kucinich, like Bill Bradley and Russ Feingold whined all the way to the bank, taking the $$$ and not staying around.
Working for super pacs and lobby groups.

[Union Scribe]

86. Cite?

Specifically the Bush claim.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

94. And, Hillary was a Goldwater Girl

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/WhoIs/story?id=3963326&page=1#.UYVnQsoRtOw


Instead, Clinton began reaching for the political stars. At the age of 13, she helped canvass the south side of Chicago in the 1960 elections and later volunteered for Republican Barry Goldwater in the 1964 presidential election.

"My best friend and I became quote 'Goldwater Girls,' Clinton said. "We got to wear cowboy hats. We had a sash that said, you know, I voted AUH2O. I mean, it was really a lot of fun."

[madrchsod]

105. i married a goldwater girl!

the marriage lasted three years. i guess it was my refusal to go to war or my drug use. probably both.

[LostOne4Ever]

104. Again

Kucinich supported Obama and the Democratic party.

Same with Feingold and Bradley. We should not be cannibalizing our own. Rather we should be united and support the democratic party. The fringe on the left isn't those who hold liberal views but those who demand 100% ideological purity or they won't vote for the Democratic party and discourage others form doing so.

People who enable Republicans to win like Nader are the fringe. They walk the walk, but then take actions that directly hurt those ideals by enabling republicans. All of the people you just listed did not do that. They have all asked their supporters to rally around the democratic party. We should support those who are willing to put their ideology aside and do what is necessary to win the elections. We need to be united not divided.

[graham4anything]

107. Why not say this to the 13 people that weekly make 100s of anti-Obama posts and anti-

and 100s of anti-Nancy Pelosi posts, and 100s of anti-Harry Reid posts, and
100s of Anti-Hillary Clinton posts, and 100s of anti-Bill Clinton posts and anti-Eric Holder posts and anti-anyone associated with Barack Obama posts.
True democratic people that know it actually takes real work and don't whine and don't leave the arena and go into some lobby groups to whine some more.

So you should take your anger to them.
It's really a small, small number, but in continous day after day rants against any Democratic person like the President, Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and Richard Gephardt, Tom Daschle both of whom lost but have not once gone and whined against the president, in fact, both are in good standing, yet day after day week after week, 100s of anti-them posts.
Why not take your anger to them and tell them.

I support Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi in the great job both are doing. And they both have a JOB, which some may not like the requirements, but both are doing a good job at what they do.

And Dennis was great when he was a deciding vote on the great health care bill that Ted Kennedy applauded and worked for for 40 years.
And Bernie is Mr. Reliable. When a 60th vote is needed, he is there 100% of the time.
And Elizabeth Warren is part of Team Obama, and she will be standing arm and arm in the air with Hillary when Hillary wins the nomination by proclamation in Summer 2016. She will be beaming as brightly as Hillary and all the other Emily's List supporters.

BTW, have you donated to the Emily List Madame Potus to elect a woman president? I have.

[LostOne4Ever]

109. Thats what i have been doing

I have strongly agreed with you multiple times in this very thread in fact

Im just defending others who have also stood up for these principles as well!


[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]graham4anything:[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]So you should take your anger to them.
It's really a small, small number, but in continous day after day rants against any Democratic person like the President, Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and Richard Gephardt, Tom Daschle both of whom lost but have not once gone and whined against the president, in fact, both are in good standing, yet day after day week after week, 100s of anti-them posts.
Why not take your anger to them and tell them.

I want to reiterate that in my few posts here I think I have demonstrated im more than willing to defend all democrats who help support the cause. I STRONGLY support Obama, LOVE Biden and Clintons, Reid, Pelosi, Gephardt, and Daschle. The latter of whom sacrificed their political careers doing what was right and DESERVE respect. Same goes for Kucinich, Feingold, and Bradely.

I defend, support, and advocate for the Democratic Party and all its allies; as well as point out how its enemies are only helping get Republicans elected to office and should be opposed. Because I truly believe that the democrats will make this country a better place for everyone.


[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]graham4anything:[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]BTW, have you donated to the Emily List Madame Potus to elect a woman president? I have.

I have not heard of it before. I will look it up

[graham4anything]

7. I disagree totally. The fringe IN OFFICE on the right, not the 80-20 people themselves.

whereas the fringe on the left are just people and thank God not in office.
Together they make up 20% of America.

80% of Americans are not fringe on either side. Just people. People who need people and want people and don't want to live in a 50-50 manipulated soundbyte world that in reality don't exist, becaue the majority of the republican voters don't like the extremists who hijacked their party (and those on the left won't ruin another election like they let Hijacker Nader do in 2000, thanks to Nader himself).

(and truth be told, even the same people who dislike Obama, dislike the Clinton's-
well the fringeleft and right with Ross Perot helped create that situation in the first place, anytime there is a division cause=effect and like the OP quote is saying,
they are getting rid of what they want in their purity attempt at a never gonna get perfection that is impossible to achieve, so in effect, they cause their own problems).

80-20

[graham4anything]

16. why should 5% hijack a party? 5% get way more than 5% should get attention wise.

95% should get 95% or more. Majority rules.95% of the democratic party loves and supports President Obama.
How's the 5% that voted for John Edwards, the $400 haircut Chuckie lookalike doing these days?

95% voted in 2008 for Hillary and for President Obama. Chuckie lost and showed the fraud we always knew he was.

[KG]

4. yawn

[graham4anything]

10. except you posted an ugly picture to distract, and didn't argue it at all.(oops).

[cali]

12. apropos pic

now post the fucking link.

[cali]

11. YOU actually think you get to tell people what is and isn't relevant? Fuck that

disgusting arrogance.

POST THE FUCKING LINK.

[graham4anything]

13. it's irrelevant to the conversation.

argue the OP or ignore the thread.

when one says Kristofferson's "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose" says one thing(but actually says the opposite), no one ever prints the entire lyrics.

I will post the entire article in the appropriate place(of which the quote is in, near the bottom, and it retorts the long article's basis in one line, but we can only post a few paragraphs here, and the article is 100s of paragraphs long, and has nothing to do with this thread except for the quote.

Kristofferson of course, meant (but the extreme fringe took the other way as they always distort), Kristofferson meant that actually, if anyone cares about anything or anyone,
one is NOT free without the other people in the world(or family group or twosome).

But the Ron Paul people take it some grand tour phrase, which it isn't.
Kristofferson meant and has reaffirmed his meaning many times
Freedom is sitting the beach over the person they lost in their rebel with a straw quest for some inane cause that is a bogus waste of time as one finds out howling at the moon at 3am on the beach all alone and with nothing.
(ala 3rd party waste of votes IMHO).

but the article itself would distract from this powerful quote found toward the very end.

But, of course, those that don't like the quote, know they can't argue it.
Simple in fact, and transparently transparent

[cali]

25. oh no. YOU don't get to tell me what to do. Ever.

now return to your crazyass word salad and bullshit.

[graham4anything]

27. Did you vote for Jerry Brown in 1992?

[cali]

30. what does that have to do with..... anything?

[graham4anything]

69. that would be telling.

[Comrade Grumpy]

80. You mean that guy who is a very good Democratic governor of our largest state?

That Jerry Brown?

[premium]

91. Apparently, to this guy, voting for Jerry Brown

is some sort of a stigmitation. . Why? Beats the hell out of me.

[socialist_n_TN]

67. Is this the same Kris Kristofferson who decorates his vocal booth.....

with a picture of Che Guevara? In your little "80/20" world, Kristofferson would be "fringe". As would most of the people who are polled on POLICY matters.

[Pelican]

14. Bacon...

Unicorns eating dog food.

Louis Armstrong and his malamute...

[graham4anything]

28. Without Louis Armstrong and Bing Crosby and Duke Ellington, there would be zippo Pop music today.

Everything came from those 3.
without them, no vocals, no pop music, no nothing.

without fracture from the extremists on the left, there would be NO republican president the last 83 years.
and you can look it up.(C)Casey Stengel, without whom, the 1962 Mets wouldn't have been such fun.

[cali]

31. zippo pop music. something else that only exists in your..... mind.

and more historical revisionism.

and no, genius, you can't look up your claim.

[graham4anything]

35. one could say Billy Murray and Henry Burr, but you would just say WHO? (not the actor)

[LostOne4Ever]

15. What is to gain by going to the center?

Last edited Sun May 5, 2013, 08:49 AM - Edit history (1)

If you think about it when a politician moves to the center they may lose some voters on the far side of that political spectrum for no real gain; BUT, when they move toward the far wing he will lose centrist voters that will then go and vote for the other candidate. Politicians have nothing to gain and everything to lose by going to the right or left compared with the middle.

Of course there is the case of where the candidate will lose no matter what. They go to the center and lose so many far wing votes they cant win, but by going to the left (or right) they lose so many centrist votes that they will still lose. So in this way the extreme on both sides act as cap on how far the country can go to either the left or right. In this case, the far wing actually hurt their own cause under our current system.

I just can't see a realistic scenario under our current political system where going to the far left/right ever results in a win for that party...or the far wing themselves. The best bet for people who really want to support extreme sides of issues is to choose a party help it get a majority and then promote change from that party slowly or advocate for changes to the system to where third parties are actually valuable and not just spoilers. So either way its in the best interest for both the party AND its more liberal/conservative members to work together.

This is of course just my opinion.

[graham4anything]

18. a very big point is missing

the fringe candidates on the right ARE REPUBLICANS and all will vote for Jeb Bush in 2016

the fringe 5% of the voters on the left, are NOT wanting to vote for Hillary, therefore, their votes could like in 2000, throw the election to the Bush family.

all the right candidates are on the same wavelength.
Ron Paul was NEVER NOT a republican.
However, David Duke, a democrat in name voted for republicans time and again, as did
George Wallace steal democratic votes.And Nader's votes all were against democratic ticket in 2000.Same with John Anderson in 1980. Same with any third party candidate in a nation which is NOT Israel, Canada or the UK which has a totally different system than ours (and we fought a war to get away from the UK, last I heard).

So the two models don't equal one.

Dennis Kucinich now works for Fox and Ron Paul's thinktank.
All he does is get people to see Fox and Ron Paul's viewpoints, which are votes for the republican party.

So, though the fringe extreme equals about 20%, the perceptions never add ONE democratic vote, they take away one for one, a democratic vote.

simple math.

[graham4anything]

26. if the above is true, why do you get so steaming mad and not just ignore it and look the other way?

why?
because history has shown I am 100% correct.
1952, 1956,1968,1972,1980,1984,1988,2000,2004
not once was I wrong about the reason for any of those.

How did John Edwards and Ralph Nader do for you?

it is so transparent the stats, the raw numbers, that it is like taking a shower in the 14th floor of an office buildings with clear glass windows. Nothing can hide it.

[cali]

32. your historical revisionism, garbage predictions, slamming of the left

and word salad shit, bother me.

You make up pile after pile of shit and claim you have the stats to prove it. but of course you never post the stats because they only exist in your... interesting little mind.

[LostOne4Ever]

40. Kucinich

Im pretty much with you on everything you said. But I do have one exception:

Dennis Kucinich should not be included with the likes of Nader et al. When he lost the 2008 primary he endorsed Obama. He did the right thing and should not be included on your list.

Why is he working for Faux News? I don't know, maybe to change it from the inside, or to try and bring a voice of reason to people trying to break their brainwashing, but till he actually hurts the democratic party its not right to include him.

I bet he will be one of Hillary's first and most vocal supporters. We should not cannibalize our own.

[Fumesucker]

20. Yeah, that's why the Republican party is so moderate these days

It's all about pushing the Overton Window one way or the other, the Republicans boldly shove it to the extreme right and the Democrats timidly tug it to the center right. Result: our political system moves ever to the right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

The Overton window is a political theory that describes as a narrow "window" the range of ideas that the public will find acceptable, and that states that the political viability of an idea is defined primarily by this rather than by politicians' individual preferences.[1] It is named for its originator, Joseph P. Overton,[2] a former vice president of the Mackinac Center for Public Policy.[3] At any given moment, the “window” includes a range of policies considered politically acceptable in the current climate of public opinion, which a politician can recommend without being considered too extreme to gain or keep public office.

[graham4anything]

22. the powers in the republican party are not the people itself(i.e. our neighbors in real life)

you watch, 80% of the women nationwide will support Hillary and vote for her.
Much like in the privacy of the voting booth, Nancy Reagan voted for President Obama in 2008, and if you can find proof otherwise, please show it with a bonafide link.

[cali]

24. put down your murky crystal ball

sorry, but you don't know who will be the dem nominee.

show me the PROOF that Nancy Reagan voted for Obama. YOU are the one that made the claim. Now prove it.

[Fumesucker]

29. Obamacare will be fully engaged by 2016

For the Democrats' sake it had better be the miracle a lot of people need for it to be and I'm not talking about the CEOs of the insurance industry.

2016 will be a referendum on Obamacare first and foremost.

[LostOne4Ever]

45. Thanks for the link

Last edited Sat May 4, 2013, 06:44 PM - Edit history (1)

Never heard of that term before. Thanks for the link

But based on reading the link I don't see how that affects what I said. The public decides the window and its the public that decides elections. If we can't win elections that means we are not within the window. Further, if we don't win election we wont have the power to push the window further to the left.

Either way we need to win elections and the best way to do that is to compromise and move to the middle. The more power we have the better able we are to move the window to the left.

As for the Republicans they have moved so far to the fringe they have hit a political dead end. Their support mainly comes from white suburban evangelicals, a shrinking demographic. Further, they have lost the youth vote for so long that there are practically 3 whole generations passionately against them. Their policies have led them to a shrinking voter base and, so long as the democratic party does not give them the opportunity to re-gain power, a political death sentence.

Further, how did they come to power in the 80s in the first place? The democrats went too far to the left. It wasn't till Bill Clinton and the new democrats came to power that we started winning again. We could have transformed this nation sooner had Double Dumb not stolen the election.

Now we once again have an opportunity to get enough power to actually push that window way to the left. We just need to be patient.

[graham4anything]

37. without compromise, one wouldn't have gotten FDR or LBJ, nor Lincoln's getting rid of slavery.

LBJ had to compromise his values a bit to accept the thankless job as VP with JFK.
However, without doing so, the Civil Rights/Voting rights and all the great stuff LBJ did
never would have been a reality

LBJ knew his becoming VP would beat Nixon and he was 100% correct.
He would have beaten Nixon in 1968 too, had the extreme left not sold him, the #1 most liberal/progressive to the point of being a socialist President of all time.

fools.
the war didn't end any sooner than it would have and look what allowing Nixon in, did for the rest of the years til 2008.

AND btw, the only protest movement that worked, was a MAINSTREAM protest movement, NOT from the far left, but from the middle, that Dr. King did.
He didn't ask anyone who joined his protest to be pure in political party.
He didn't ask LBJ NOT to look for republican votes when the DEMOCRAT DIXIECRATS OF RACIST GEORGE WALLACE would not vote for them
He looked for passage and LBJ got it anyway he could.

Pure? That would be George Wallace, the racist. If one wants pure-then George Wallace and Ron and Rand Paul, they are purists in the vilest sense among all other sense.
Now, would Wallace be considered right or left? I consider him a fringe extreme.
Makes no difference if it was right or left. Just makes it wrong.

[LostOne4Ever]

43. Totally agree!

This country was founded on compromise!

Had the original states not comprised their own petty differences we might not be here today. As Ben Franklin cartooned:

Join or Die!

We need to be unified against the fringe controlling the Repug party or we face political death. But if we play it cool we could bring back sanity!

[OKNancy]

17. Village Voice

I'm the Google champ.

The city may be overwhelmingly Democratic, but it hasn't elected a Democratic mayor in 20 years. The record of progressives in city government is terrible. The last effective progressive mayor held office in the '30s—and Fiorello La Guardia was a Republican. Holding progressives to a platonic ideal of virtue has never worked. "The fringe left is just as strident as the Tea Party on the right," says Pinter.

http://www.villagevoice.com/2013-05-01/news/lgbt-purists-to-quinn-we-would-love-a-gay-mayor-just-not-you/4/

----

This is actually a good article and an interesting view of the NYC mayor's race.

[graham4anything]

21. yes, and I am/was going to post it as a lead OP, or you can.

I was reading the actual paper itself and saw it, not online, but the hard copy of it.
With putting the article up, it will be distracted by the normal run of Bloomberg haters along with the other haters who don't want an out Gay woman or woman in general from being mayor.(I am 100% for Christine Quinn for mayor btw.)

The quote itself though is relevant and is why I posted it separate.

[trumad]

33. The quote is by a bitter old hag...

I read the piece and he's full of shit.

[graham4anything]

34. but he is 100% correct. Truer words were never spoken.

one can win
one can whine
you can't spell whine without win
but one can whine forever without winning

and in politics, winning=seated=winning is the only thing that matters.

Better to get 10% of something, than 100% of nothing (except in gun matters, where death is involved).

of course, Nader himself is a 100% liar when he said both parties are the same.
SCOTUS proved him wrong.

[trumad]

36. You really have to quit making pronouncements that you are 100 percent correct.

9 out of 10 times DU will eat your lunch.

[graham4anything]

38. just the vocal fringe. 9 out of 10 times, the same exact people each and every time, right?

Part of the 20%
not the 80%.

the 80% mostly is the silent majority.
Because they block out the 20 so don't even see it.

which is what the 80% should do in America. Render the 20% obsolete politically and vocally in the media.

[trumad]

47. 80-20...snarf

You sound like you're talking hamburger meat at the grocery store.

[pintobean]

46. I haven't seen you win anything

[neverforget]

75. word salads

definitely a winner there.

[graham4anything]

39. btw-do you consider a person in their 50's old?Please explain the meaning of response #33

[trumad]

44. I'm in my fifties... and I'm fucking old.

Simple answer to a simple question.

[WinkyDink]

42. At least "the fringe left" is not about "corporations are people." Discuss THAT.

[graham4anything]

49. Ralph Nader & Electing Nixon, Reagan, Ford, Bush,Bush and in 2016 Jeb got you that.

discuss THAT.

protesters got that law. Nobody to blame but the protesters because consequences beget outcomes.

electing the other side got what the other side wanted
protesters only have thyself to blame.

[toddaa]

51. 80/20? Is this a real thing?

I've seen posts about this, but beyond being a swipe at OWS, the only thing I can figure is that it has something to do with 80% of American's being fine with letting Lloyd Blankfein pick the next president.

[Arcanetrance]

52. May I ask a question after reading through these comments

It seems in some of the posts your saying if one doesn't vote for Hillary or the more centrist person we are aligning ourselves with the Pauls or David Duke or Kucinich. It's possible to just disagree and not support those people

[Bluenorthwest]

53. Had to look him up, he's a NYC writer, not an activist and I'd never heard of him at all.

No link, no context. He sounds angry and bitter like you do. Incomprehensible bullshit is what NYC does best these days.

[graham4anything]

55. I gotta laugh, but shall do so silently.

[Bluenorthwest]

57. Where is a link to the quote you make? Where is Mr Pinter's bio?

Why are you leaving that out? Afraid of making an honest post? Where are you links? You and your constant attacks on gay people need to check yourself.

[SidDithers]

54. Yup...

Check out the outrage threads posted at DU everyday.

Though there will be fewer of them after yesterday's tombstoning.

Sid

[graham4anything]

60. Yup again.

[whatchamacallit]

90. Yup

Sid and G4A, intellectual peers.

[SidDithers]

92. Like you and MadHound, right?..,

Sid

[whatchamacallit]

96. Wrong

[Number23]

110. Who was tombed, Sid?

Never mind, Sid. Just found it myself http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=112094&sub=trans

The fact that this revolting person had so many fans in GD sums up how far this web site has fallen better than anything else I can say. I am quite proud of the fact that I got to tell this maniac exactly what he was before he got shown the door http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2669030

[burnodo]

56. Far left? What far left? Who is far left?

I certainly haven't seen anyone who could be considered far left in any position of authority that might truly affect any outcome.

[graham4anything]

62. LBJ was the left back then, and the left left LBJ behind in 1968 to get what? Nixon.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

65. Hey! Hey! LBJ. How many kids did you kill today?

Yeah, war criminal LBJ, was a real leftie.

[graham4anything]

68. yawn. That is so boring. You have written that many times.Protesters gave us Nixon.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

70. Do you include RFK and McCarthy in the "Fringe left"?

[graham4anything]

76. I doubt YOU would think RFK was as he was into wiretapping people like Dr. King.

but Do you think either would have beaten Nixon or been the nominee? NO. They would not.
and LBJ was far to the left of Bobby anyhow.
Teddy was far to the left of his two brothers, but of course, a stupid wedge issue and the extremists hated Ted for it.

HHH would have been the nominee anyhow without LBJ in the race,and Bobby alive, and he would have lost just as bad, perhaps worse.

McCarthy and mcGovern in 1972, nice guys but never able to win.
If you wanted a true populist in 1972, John V. Lindsay would have been the one to go with.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

82. Do you consider RFK and McCarthy the "Fringe Left"?

You provided a lot of Woodchuckisms to defend your murderous hero, but you haven't answered the question.

[burnodo]

73. The left left LBJ behind

An interesting take on things considering the eventual Democratic nominee was shot and killed. I don't think LBJ was really left. In fact, I don't think you could call any recent Dem president a member of the left. If only we could have had real left presidents. Things would be so much better now.

[Whisp]

58. ''In space no one hears their extreme shouting''

Unfortunately some the the extreme right is heard well enough to be able to change laws in regards to women's reproductive health all over the country. I think that saying applies to the far left who want Dennis Kucinich or someone to his left, to be President next term.

[Bjorn Against]

59. "Fringe centrists" annoy me more than anyone

People like Joe Lieberman and those who automatically say "both extremes are wrong and the truth is somewhere in the middle" without even thinking through the position. That is every bit as ideological as all the positions they denounce as being too ideological. Nothing wrong with nuanced positions, but these are not nuanced positions they are people pretending they are above it all by acting as if they are the middle ground everyone should go along with. They say they want compromise but the compromise they want is always their own position, they think calling it centrist somehow makes it the position everyone should go along with. It is sheer arrogance, and these "fringe centrists" annoy me even more than the far right does.

[gopiscrap]

61. Bullshit the fringe left

doesn't go around killing people or waging war against the rest of the world

[spanone]

64. horse. shit.

[Union Scribe]

72. Yes, waiter, I'll have the word salad. With nuts. nt

[curlyred]

95. And a couple of Advil. This guy's writing makes my head hurt.

[SamKnause]

81. Fringe

I believe in equality for all.

If that is considered 'fringe left' then so be it.

[Jamaal510]

83. I'm as liberal as the next guy,

but I think there is some truth in this statement, although it looks like the people on our fringe have less influence than the fringe Right. We all pretty much want to achieve the same goals, but it seems like the people on the fringe are less pragmatic about it and are expecting everything and a bag of chips, despite us having divided government. These are some of the same people who complain that the President and Democrats aren't getting enough done or are not fighting for the poor, while conveniently forgetting that Republicans have blocked virtually everything Obama wanted to pass (including the Jobs Act in 2011).
In a county as divided as this and in such an intense political landscape, progress isn't going to come easily.

[Apophis]

84. You really hate the "fringe left," don't you?

[hatrack]

85. If I want word salad, I'll go watch Fox and wait for some Sarah Palin coverage

Don't need it here. Bye.

[SomethingFishy]

93. Yeah, how dare the "fringe" left be "strident"...

They are just as bad as the fringe right with their boundless amounts of hate. Hate injustice... hate inequality... hate war... hate stupidity... hate corruption... it's all hate all the time. What horrible people. I can't imagine how people could be so hateful. Why, they are exactly the same at the tea party!

[madinmaryland]

98. Can you explain what the hell the fringe left is??

[hobbit709]

100. It's anything Mr. 80/20 Hillary is The Messiah says it is.

[graham4anything]

108. they will be Observers not smiling when by proclamation of Hillary is the nominee in 2016.

when the 95% of the democratic party is boldly going where no party ever went before.

btw, did you donate to Emily List's Madame Potus yet? I did.

[HughBeaumont]

99. If you don't stand for something, you're graham4anything.

[SomethingFishy]

101. Reminds me of HiFructoseWhateverhisnamewas...

[stevenleser]

106. Wow. What a memory. I had to look them up, they haven't posted since 2006. nt

[idwiyo]

102. ...

[pa28]

103. What, you mean like insisting on preserving things like s.s. with no compromise?

A majority of Americans agree with that position. There is nothing "fringe" about it unless you are only counting conventional wisdom inside Washington.

This person you are quoting would seem to be engaging in more false equivalency bullshit.