The risk of having a gun in the home

[Uzair]

Facts are horrible things if you're a gun nut.

http://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2012/12/health-risk-having-gun-home

Read it all. Here's some quotes.

Accidental deaths

To begin with, having a gun in the home is a risk factor for serious accidental injury and death. As Hemenway points out, death certificate data indicate that 680 Americans were killed accidentally with guns each year between 2003 and 2007. Half those victims were under the age of 25.

Suicides

An average of 46 Americans committed suicide with guns each day between 2003 and 2007. In fact, more Americans killed themselves with guns during those years than with all other methods combined.

Homicides

Two-thirds of all murders between 2003 and 2007 involved guns. The average number of Americans shot and killed daily during those years was 33. Of those, one was a child (0 to 14 years), five were teenagers (15 to 19 years) and seven were young adults (20 to 24 years), on average.

Go ahead, DU gun nuts. Talk about everything else except the guns in order to explain these facts away. Just know that you can't win this "debate". There is no debate. Facts are facts. You've already lost. So either join the rest of us who live in a reality based world or go home.

[NightWatcher]

1. Are you looking for a fight?

Damn I can't wait till the gun threads are sent away.

Good luck with your hunt for someone to argue with.

[cherokeeprogressive]

5. I haven't seen this poster post about anything else, and never in anything less than an agressive

manner.

There's a word for that... I seem to forget what it is. If memory serves me correctly, it rhymes with bowling. Damn if I can remember what it is though.

[Uzair]

12. Yeah, sure...

Why is it not trolling to post NRA bullshit all the time? It's OK to purposely spread lies, but not to call those lies out?

[Bake]

64. How many times do you need to do it before enough is enough?

I"ll be damn glad when the gun threads are relegated to the Gungeon.

Bake

[pintobean]

65. The OP has yet to post

in the gungeon.

At least, not with that user name.

[Uzair]

71. Fuck the gungeon

That's a place for all the NRA shills to spout their bullshit. As long as this remains a national issue, I will continue to fight for truth in general discussion. And if the truth hurts the gun nuts? Tough. The rest of us are sick and tired of the misdirection, the distortions, the outright lies.

[pintobean]

73. "The rest of us"?

There are very few DUers who agree with your extreme views. From what I've seen, a lot of people see your posts as flaimbait. Why would someone declare "there is no debate", yet keep posting on the subject? It's all you ever post about. You don't seem to believe your own rhetoric.

[Uzair]

77. LOL

Extreme views. That's rich. Every country that has solved the gun problem has implemented those so called "extreme views". The only extremists are the maybe 10 to 20 of you who parrot NRA lies day in and day out whenever, yes, THE REST OF US try to expose the bullshit for what it is. Hell, even the admins are against you. Just look at the pic of the day.

[pintobean]

80. I'm not the NRA

I have absolutely nothing to do with them. To say that admin is against me, based on the pic of the day, is a personal attack. It's really weak to try to tie everyone who disagrees with you to that extreem organization.

Did you see that you were mentioned in ATA? You might be interested in the links that are provided in that post. They give a good indication on where "the rest of us" stand.

[Lizzie Poppet]

75. If you want to figfht for truth...

...consider first learning to recognize it.

[Union Scribe]

38. Probably not their first rodeo either.

They've already got a huge chip on their shoulder about DU "gun nuts" (anyone with a gun in their house, by this OP).

[pintobean]

43. Correction

Anyone who thinks there is a right for anyone to own a gun.

I expect him to put something about it in his sig line.

[rrneck]

2. Welcome to DU!

If you go here, you will find these facts have been extensively debated for several years now. And not a little bit. We're talking War and Peace length discussions. You can find them with the DU search function.

Enjoy.

[Kali]

3. ooo something else you could try for a sig line!

[rightsideout]

4. It's a worthless cause

Gun fanatics don't care and won't listen. It's funny how they cling to that second amendment. I'd like to see it repealed just for the enjoyment of watching them melt down.

The object of being an American in this gun slinging society is to get through life without being shot. Hit the deck!

[Uzair]

11. That's the crux of it, isn't it?

They. Don't. Care.

And they lie.

[LAGC]

6. *yawn*

[img][/img]

Yeah, there's no debate, alright.

[BainsBane]

7. That some people find such information

boring and an opportunity for mocking really says it all.

[Ghost in the Machine]

8. Ohhhh, *such* the AUTHORITARIAN attitude, huh? Not to mention the name-calling... ""gun nuts",

etc. Resorting to name-calling only proves you have no actual argument to begin with, but I'll lower myself to your level for a few minutes, Mr. Authoritarian. I want to see what it actually feels like to have no intellectual skills to start a "debate". How do you anti-gun nut zealots do it all day, every day, without hanging your heads in shame?? Better yet, how does it feel being called names, Mr. Authoritarian, anti-gun nut zealot?? Do you like it?

Someone a few posts up posted a chart that blew your "debate" out of the water... why no response to that? Nothing intelligent to counter it?? Do you think I could get a refund on all my guns, since they seem to be defective? Aint been the first one of them that jumped up and killed anyone on accident, on purpose or for a suicide, and I've had a few of them for 30+ to 40+ years!!

Then there's this:

Go ahead, DU gun nuts. Talk about everything else except the guns in order to explain these facts away. Just know that you can't win this "debate". There is no debate. Facts are facts. You've already lost. So either join the rest of us who live in a reality based world or go home.

Straight up George W Bush speak: You're either with us or against us. SOOO AUTHORITARIAN!!, but here's the BEST part:

So either join the rest of us who live in a reality based world or go home.

There's a site that is obsessed with DU, and its initials rhyme with DU, and they do carry on about the "reality based world". Methinks that just *might* be YOUR home, so why don't you run along back there and brag how you got a mole, which rhymes with troll, and how you got "all them lib'ruls in an uproar over guns"? They might buy your story over there, but as for here, well.... it's just got the stench of someone who's been living under a bridge too long.

Get along now.... buh bye...

Ghost

[Uzair]

9. Pathetic

Go ahead, call me a troll. I don't care.

What, exactly, did the poster above post to "blow me out of the water?" The fact that Americans have been brainwashed by NRA propaganda does not refute the facts that I linked to. Why don't you talk at ALL about the facts that I linked to?

You know what? The rational ones here are sick and goddamn tired of the lies that you and your ilk repeatedly spread on this site. All you guys do is rehash NRA BULLSHIT, day in and day out. We prove you wrong over and over again, and you continue to lie and lie and lie. This is not FOX News. We won't fall for it. Too bad you all have.

Or maybe you could do the right thing and actually change your misguided mind? You can't refute the facts about guns. You can't refute the facts about other countries with strict gun laws. WE HAVE THE TRUTH ON OUR SIDE AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT THAT. So how about you stop with the bullshit?

[premium]

13. Touched a nerve?

Here's a fact for you, you don't get to tell others what we can or can't have in our homes.
Here's another fact for you, millions upon millions grew up with firearms in homes without any problems at all.

Like it or not, firearms are here to stay and your ranting and name calling and cute little insults aren't going to change a thing.

GTFU.

[Uzair]

15. Sick

You're going to deny that tens of thousands killed every year? You're going to deny the virtually zero who die every year in other countries with strict gun laws?

Do you care about those deaths? Including about 500 children a year? Maybe I'm the one who touched a nerve.

[premium]

16. Got a link to those stats about 500 children a year?

Appox. 30,000 a year, over half of which are suicides, the majority of the rest are in the inner cities because of the ongoing drug war, poverty, urban decay, lack of jobs, etc., fix those problems and the homicide rate would drop like a stone, also, better mental health care, which would then decrease the suicide rate.

But my point still stands, you don't get to tell us what we can or can't have in our homes, or decide what's good for us and not good for us.
You're no better than the repukes with your authoritarian pronouncements and all your cute little insults of legal gun owners.

[Uzair]

20. I'm copy and pasting your reply

Here is the reply above me, just in case it gets self deleted:

Appox. 30,000 a year, over half of which are suicides, the majority of the rest are in the inner cities because of the ongoing drug war, poverty, urban decay, lack of jobs, etc., fix those problems and the homicide rate would drop like a stone, also, better mental health care, which would then decrease the suicide rate.

But my point still stands, you don't get to tell us what we can or can't have in our homes, or decide what's good for us and not good for us.
You're no better than the repukes with your authoritarian pronouncements and all your cute little insults of legal gun owners.

This person above me is justifying the effectively nonexistent gun laws in America by dismissing 15000 people who kill themselves, and "the rest" as being an "inner city" problem.

Now you're edging ever so closer to that line, that thing that you REALLY want to say, but can't say it out loud, as it may be a TOS violation. Go ahead, tell us what you REALLY think.

[premium]

22. So, no link?

I'm not dismissing anyone, that's in your mind and an attempt to smear me, but if you seem to think that I'm inching close to a TOS violation, alert on it.

I've got an idea, why don't you tell me what I REALLY want to say, because you seem to be some kind of psychic.



BTW, why would I delete it? I stand by it.

[Uzair]

27. Go see post #19 and do some math.

Or do a google. The facts are all out there. Stop pretending like they're not.

[premium]

29. Finally,

now, as to the homicides, how many are due to gang/drug wars? And where do the majority of them occur?

[Uzair]

31. Go ahead and say it. You don't give a shit.

Your "right" to a gun trumps the deaths of thousands of young black kids in the city. Got it.

[premium]

32. Ah, projecting again?

I do care, I care a hell of a lot.
I want to see these endless wars end, slash the defense budget, end this insane WOD, use the money to rebuild our cities/infrastructure which would provide jobs, rebuild our education system, which will provide skills.

Ending the WOD and legalizing certain drugs would have an immediate impact on violent crime.

So far, all you've offered is something that's not going to happen and insult and cute name calling of legal gun owners, oh yeah, and the pronouncement that the debate is over and if we don't like it, then either "grow the fuck up" or, "go home"., neither of which helps, it seems that all you want to do is post flamebait and fuck anyone else who might have a different opinion.

[Uzair]

34. Facts are not opinions.

Sorry, you can't call a fact an opinion.

Look at the gun laws in other industrialized countries. Look at their gun crime. Stop pretending that other countries don't have drug problems and gang problems and poverty and all the other social ills in America. The difference is THEY HAVE SANE GUN LAWS. Are you going to sit there and tell me Canada doesn't have gangs and drugs? Are you going to tell me Japan doesn't have organized criminals? (Ever hear of the Yakuza?!) Did you even click on the link in the OP? More FACTS. Not opinions.

Stop with this NRA bullshit. It's the guns. It's always been the guns. It's not my fucking opinion, it's proven fact. Accept it or go home.

[pintobean]

33. We're back to that

ridiculous sig line. Already.

[Union Scribe]

39. Hey flamethrower

how about quitting putting words in everyone's mouth, especially your insistence that people who disagree with you about anything hate dead children.

[blueamy66]

54. So who "gets to tell you what you can or can't have" in your home?

You can't throw that argument out there.....

There are laws in this country and we employ thousands of people to enforce them in many ways.

So, who is allowed to tell YOU what you can and can't have in your home?

[ileus]

10. No problems here thanks anyway.

[whistler162]

14. Okay... so you are a gun nut!

[loli phabay]

37. seems to be, the nuts are at both ends of the spectrum.

[galileoreloaded]

17. im curious what has happened in your life that has led you to here

i appreciate your...resolve? but people don't usually take such irrational hard line stances unless personally affected and feel a need for justice.

it would help me understand you if you would share your story.

[Uzair]

26. Irrational hard line stances

You're projecting. Every other civilized nation on the planet must have irrational, hard line gun laws then, according to you. You know what else they have? Microscopic and near nonexistent gun crime.

[premium]

28. These countries have strict gun laws,

and yet, per capita, their murder rates are higher than ours, but I suppose that's ok to you because, after all, they do have strict gun laws.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

[Pelican]

18. Ahhh... The tried and true 3rd grade tactic of declaring victory...

... and that everyone else needs to shut up.


A classic.. Fine choice...

[pipi_k]

19. Causes of

childhood deaths in 2007

http://www.childdeathreview.org/nationalchildmortalitydata.htm

[GreenStormCloud]

41. 0-19 is a child?

We have 18 year olds in the military and serving in combat. Does that mean we are using child soldiers? I was 18 when I was in Vietnam and 19 when I came back. So I was a child veteran?

[AnotherMcIntosh]

82. And probably remember returning and not being able to legally drink.

[GreenStormCloud]

83. I wasn't old enough to vote either. N/T

[kudzu22]

21. Your "facts" aren't wrong, but your conclusions are

All you have there are statistics, not causality. Explain how my risk of being murdered is increased by having a gun in my home. Show me the study that says that if one neighbor has a gun and another doesn't, the one with the gun is more likely to be murdered. Where is the study that says if suicidal people don't have a gun, they'll decide not to commit suicide?

[99Forever]

23. Uh huh uh huh uh huh...

... yeppers...

It's all just a decades long repeating coincidence.

"Nuttin' to see here."

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[kudzu22]

24. Seemed appropriate resopnse to a VPC shill

spouting their talking points. If someone's got some logic, I'd love to hear it. If not, go ahead with your stats and cute memes.

[99Forever]

25. You already proved that you...

... will just poo poo the actual facts, so bud, I'll pass on your silly little NRA trip down the rabbithole. Who the fuck do you think you are fooling, anyway?

[The Straight Story]

30. Hmmm. What percent of gun owners use guns in crimes?

You refer to people who value their rights and freedoms as nuts.

Are you an abortion nut? No restrictions on them at all? Are you a free speech nut?

And all your argument does is show that very few people use their guns in crimes, just like very few muslims do terrorist attacks - but hey, we have a grudge so let's play rw when it comes to things we don't like an label everyone not like us as nuts/humpers/etc.

Heck I might just buy a gun next year just to piss off some people - well, I would, but then that gun would magically possess me with it's metal demon power and turn me into a serial killer.

So I ask you for another fact - what percent of people who legally own guns used them in a crime ? There are roughly 50 million gun owners (give or take). There were 1,203,564 violent crimes in the US in 2011.

In 2010 there were 14,748 homicides in the US, 67% involved guns so about 9800 with guns.

50,000,000 gun owners. That is not including people who own them illegally (whom I suspect probably have more of bent towards using them in crimes).

We sell fear because we like to control things. Less than 1% of people with guns use them to harm others.

But we are a lazy people and don't want to address the root causes of crime (poverty, alcohol, drugs, etc) so we run to government and ask them to pass laws they won't have the money to enforce and that don't really do anything. So we can feel good.

[GreenStormCloud]

40. Easily dealt with.

Accidents.

The accident rate for guns has been steadily declining. 680 annually is a fairly small number for a country on 310 million. There are lots of other accident causes that are killing lots more folks than guns. For example, 33,041 in 2010 were killed by accidental poisoning.

Suicide
That is a risk that I choose to accept for myself. I don't need you as a nanny. If I decide to kill myself, then that is my choice.

Homicide
The homicide rate has been greatly decreased.

It is very rare for a normal person to commit murder as their first violent crime. And most murder victims are also involved in a criminal enterprise when they are murdered. Since criminals don't care much about laws, adding a layer of guns laws will do nothing about that. We need to legalize and reasonably regulate drugs, prostitution, gambling so that many criminals will become legitimate businesspersons and sue each other in court instead of kill each other.

Justified homicide

Anti-gun fanatics usually leave that category out. There are few hundred of those annually. Sometime we do use guns to defend ourselves from violent criminals.

Since Nov, 1998 there have been 169,203,375 NICS checks. That's about 170 million gun sales in the last 14 and 1/2 years. Yet gun violence is declining.

[Demo_Chris]

44. Ha! I notice you ignored the "Idiotic Gun Threads in GD" crime statistic!

Banning guns will surely help reduce that one.

[GreenStormCloud]

48. Didn't see it. Could you please post a link for me? N/T

[Demo_Chris]

58. That was humor. Or, rather, my non-professional effort at such. nt

[Orrex]

46. You seem to be skewing some of the statistics there

680 annually is a fairly small number for a country on 310 million. There are lots of other accident causes that are killing lots more folks than guns. For example, 33,041 in 2010 were killed by accidental poisoning.

Does that 680 figure refer to accidental gun injuries or to accidental gun fatalities? What's your source? Citation, please.

In addition, you should distinguish between a total population of 310 million versus the much smaller population of gun owners, since that's a better baseline. 680 annual accidents might still seem like a small number compared to 33,041, but you also need to consider the number of households that contain at least one poisonous substance (approximately 100%) versus the number that contain at least one firearm (substantially less than 100%)

Justified homicide
Anti-gun fanatics usually leave that category out. There are few hundred of those annually. Sometime we do use guns to defend ourselves from violent criminals.

Yeah, and pro-gun fanatics tend to over-emphasize this category. A few hundred justifiable homicides annually? By private citizens? What's your source? Citation, please.

Regarding your thoughts on suicide, I suppose you're free to kill yourself if you really want to, but others may take a less cavalier attitude about it, especially if it pertains to loved ones. Yes, a person intent on suicide can find some other method if a gun is not available, but gun offer a much higher first-time success rate than other methods, so it's worth considering the difference in lethality between guns and any other implement of death.

Since Nov, 1998 there have been 169,203,375 NICS checks. That's about 170 million gun sales in the last 14 and 1/2 years. Yet gun violence is declining.

Violent crime overall is declining. What's your point?

[GreenStormCloud]

47. Sources.

The 680 is from the OP. Perhaps you should ask him where he got his number. I simply accepted his number and used it. I notice that you didn't post asking him where he got his number. However, a quick check of the CDC website http://webappa.cdc.gov/cgi-bin/broker.exe has 606 for the year 2010. Even if you change the focus to how many households have guns, it is still a very low number of deaths.

The few hundred number is from the FBI UCR report. However, the FBI reported number is for justifiable homicide and does not include excusable homicide nor does it include homicide initially reported to them as murder but later changed to justifiable/excusable. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-15 reports 260 for private citizen justifiable homicide for 2011. That number is lower than actual for the reasons stated.

Also remember that for a gun to be used in self-defense it isn't necessary to kill the criminal. Almost always they will run away if they discover their intended victim is armed. There are lots of videos of self-defense caught in surveillance cameras that document exactly that.

Those who are concerned with the possibility of a loved one killing themselves should focus on the "why" and act on that, as opposed to worrying about the "how".

[Orrex]

49. Thank you

I didn't ask the OP for his source because I wasn't replying to the OP.

Since I've demonstrated that the ifolly of comparison between deaths by poison (with multiple poisons in 100% of homes) versus accidents by firearms (with firearms in much less that 100% of homes), are you prepared to abandon that comparson? I notice that you didn't reiterate or support it, for instance.

All else being equal, I will address this point:

Those who are concerned with the possibility of a loved one killing themselves should focus on the "why" and act on that, as opposed to worrying about the "how".

Although that's technically true, it is also sensible to concern oneself with the "how" even while addressing the "why." The "why" might take years or decades to resolve, while the "how" might be wrapped up in a tragic fraction of second.

[GreenStormCloud]

66. I did address it, I just didn't think I would need to show the math.

Since about half of American households have a firearm you would have about half of the population has access to a firearm. To be numerically conservative I will use 1/3 instead of 1/2.

That leaves 606 accidental gun deaths out of a population of 100 million. That would compare to an accidental poisoning rate of 11,000 per 100 million. 606 compared to 11K is still a much smaller number.

The point was that guns are way down on the list of accidental deaths.

Nobody has done it, but I would love to see a study of how many of the accidents gun deaths involved people with criminal backgrounds, either as victim or as shooter or as owner of the gun. I suspect that it would be a large percentage.

[Orrex]

67. Thank you again

Now that we've addressed accidental gun deaths versus accidental poisoning, we can move on to deliberate gun deaths (homicide & suicide) versus deliberate poisoning (homicide & suicide).

How do the numbers shake out in that comparison, I wonder?

[GreenStormCloud]

69. OK, let's look at that.

Suicides I am not concerned about. If someone wants to end their life, that is their ultimate freedom.

Illegal Homicides.
It is very rare for a law abiding person to commit murder as their first violent crime. (Please note that rare does not equal never.) Almost always a murderer will have a history of violence. Fortunately, they will usually murder either another criminal or a member of their own family or intimate partner. (Living with a violent criminal is extremely dangerous. Spouses of such are in great danger and should leave ASAP.)

Safest of all are those who have CCWs, in those states that have reasonable requirement for a CCW. Texas keep and posts online annual statistics for criminal convictions of those with Concealed Handgun Licenses. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/chl/reports/convrates.htm If you look at the linked site you can see that it is CHLs in Texas save more innocent lives than they take.

In Texas the detailed statistics are compiled annually by the Department of Public Safety and published on the internet. It is likely that the Texas experience with Concealed Handgun Licenses would be about the same in other states. The last year for which statistics are published is 2011 for convictions. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/chl/index.htm

In 2011 there were 512,625 people who had CHLs. Out of those people there were exactly three (3) murder convictions and three (3) manslaughter convictions. Out of the general population there were 578 convictions for murder in its various forms.

So very, very few CHL holders go bad, but some do.

The DPS also publishes an annual Crime in Texas Report. http://www.dps.texas.gov/crimereports/10/citCh3.pdf
From that report, page 15:

Statistics on murder circumstances, victims, and
victim/offender relationships on the next page
include justifiable homicides. Justifiable homicide
is the killing of a felon by a peace officer in the
line of duty or the killing (during the commission
of a felony) of a felon by a private citizen. In
2010, there were 98 justifiable homicides, of
which, 50 were felons killed by private citizens,
and 48 were felons killed by police.

In Texas all homicides, even those that are clearly self-defense, have to go before a grand jury which will rule if the killing was justified or not. So those 50 justified private citizen homicides were ones in which the defender genuinely and legitimately feared for his life. Since most shootings are merely woundings there would be a much larger number of justified woundings in which the defender genuinely feared for his life, but that number is not kept. And there would be many more cases in which the defender merely displays his gun and the criminal runs away. Obviously there are hundreds of cases each year in which a CHL holder uses their gun to save themselves from criminal violence.

Dozens of innocent lives saved versus six innocents killed shows the concealed carry is working in Texas. As already stated, there is no reason to believe that other CCW states have a different experience.

Legal concealed carry saves innocent lives.

[Orrex]

70. Okay, I take back part of what I said before

Suicides I am not concerned about. If someone wants to end their life, that is their ultimate freedom.

It appears that you do not, in fact, understand this issue, despite knowing six people who have committed suicide. In writing it off as a matter of "ultimate freedom," you reveal that you don't grasp the complex issues and mental state that precede suicide.

I'm not interested in educating you this regard, so I will simply accept your lack of understanding and move on.


Not sure what your CCW and CHL stats are meant to prove, since the question was about deliberate gun deaths versus deliberate deaths by poisoning.

[DanTex]

53. In other words, 30,000 gun deaths a year is not really a big deal.

Suicide
That is a risk that I choose to accept for myself. I don't need you as a nanny. If I decide to kill myself, then that is my choice.

Good for you, but suicides are still deaths, and there is ample evidence that gun availability is a significant contributor. As a reflexive libertarian, you probably also don't think that you need the government to inspect food, or to ensure that doctors have licenses, etc.

Homicide
The homicide rate has been greatly decreased.

Decreasing doesn't mean "low". It's still far higher than any other first-world country, where gun laws are tighter and far fewer crimes involve guns. And, over the last decade, the entire decrease in gun homicides can be attributed to increased survival rates from gunshot wounds. The rate of gunshots from assaults is increasing.

Justified homicide

A few hundred annually. Versus 10,000 homicides, 20,000 suicides, and 700 accidental deaths. You do the math.

[GreenStormCloud]

68. I appreciate food inspections and appropriate liscensing for proffesionals.

And I appreciate auto safety inspections, and licensing for concealed or open carry.

The FBI http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/violent-crime/aggravated-assault says that aggravated assault is down 15.7% from 2002. The rate of gunshot victims is not increasing. If you have solid data otherwise, please link to it.

Your stats are cherry-picked. Russia has strong gun control and a far higher homicide rate. Same for Mexico.

[DanTex]

76. Russia and Mexico. LOL. Be serious.

You con't really believe that Russia and Mexico are better points of comparison than Canada, Western Europe, Australia, etc. But I'm glad you brought that up, to show everyone else here the absurd lengths that the pro-gun crowd will go to to try and deny the obvious.

As for aggravated assaults, those are not all gun crimes. The CDC has data in firearms assault injuries, as well as fatalaties. While crime has been dropping, gun violence specifically has not.




Rates of firearm assault injuries have increased over the 2000s

Year Number of
injuries Population Crude
Rate Age-Adjusted
Rate**
2001 41,044 284,968,955 14.40 14.11
2002 37,321 287,625,193 12.98 12.75
2003 42,505 290,107,933 14.65 14.40
2004 43,592 292,805,298 14.89 14.72
2005 50,320 295,516,599 17.03 16.92
2006 52,748 298,379,912 17.68 17.45
2007 48,676* 301,231,207 16.16 16.09
2008 56,626 304,093,966 18.62 18.57
2009 44,466 306,771,529 14.49 14.50
2010 53,738 308,745,538 17.41 17.55
2011 55,544 311,591,917 17.83 17.85

Rates of firearm homicide have declined slightly.

Year Number of
Deaths Population*** Crude
Rate Age-Adjusted
Rate**
2001 11,348 284,968,955 3.98 3.93
2002 11,829 287,625,193 4.11 4.07
2003 11,920 290,107,933 4.11 4.07
2004 11,624 292,805,298 3.97 3.94
2005 12,352 295,516,599 4.18 4.17
2006 12,791 298,379,912 4.29 4.27
2007 12,632 301,231,207 4.19 4.20
2008 12,179 304,093,966 4.01 4.03
2009 11,493 306,771,529 3.75 3.78
2010 11,078 308,745,538 3.59 3.62

http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/index.html

[DanTex]

79. Why food and auto inspections, and medical licenses, but not gun control?

How about building codes? I mean, if I want my staircases to be steep and uneven, who cares? And what if I want to use paint with lead in it? It basically only affects my own family (and whoever I sell the house to...).

What about prescriptions for medical drugs? Micheal Jackson died because he was using the general anaesthetic propofol as a sleep aid. So now the doctor who prescribed him that is in trouble. How do you feel about that? Do you think a grown man like MJ should be able to decide for himself what to use for sleeping pills, without the government requiring the opinion of a medical professional?

And so on. All of these are examples of the "nanny state" in action. Knee-jerk libertarianism sounds good, but it is a fantasy.

[GreenStormCloud]

84. Because I didn't feel like listing everything.

I agree with building codes, prescriptions, and so on, unless they go too far. Some codes do stop modern technology and act to protect established businesses that would be threatened by new methods. The approval process for the FDA takes too long. People die waiting for new drugs too. There are things the FDA can do to streamline the process while still protecting public safety. The nanny state can go too far. A prime example would be Bloomie's crusade against large sugar drinks.

[Recursion]

42. Dangerous things increase the danger in the home

Umm... true. And?

[IveWornAHundredPants]

55. Why would you increase rather than minimize the number of dangerous things

in your home, I think is the question.

[Recursion]

56. I would like a car and swimming pool

Both increase the danger of someone in my house dying. A ship is safe in port, but that is not the purpose of a ship.

[IveWornAHundredPants]

57. I said "minimize," not "eliminate."

A thinking person will make a calculation in their head. A car's usefulness for most will outweigh its potential dangers, and you can minimize those dangers in various ways. You also have to register them and pass tests to operate them. A swimming pool - well, I have a child, and I can tell you I wouldn't be installing one even if I wanted to, precisely because of the calculation I referred to.

And a gun? To me, if you make that calculation and decide the benefits outweigh the potential dangers, it must mean you live somewhere incredibly dangerous and crime-ridden, or you just really, really, really, really (x100) like guns.

[Recursion]

59. My other home is in West Texas, at my grandfather's farm

I simply will have several guns there. Coyotes, snakes, 45-minute+ law-enforcement response. This is non-negotiable.

[IveWornAHundredPants]

60. How accessible are those guns?

And why do you need more than one rifle to take care of varmints? Did your grandfather set up shop in a Gustave Doré etching or something?

[Recursion]

61. Double-locked in a safe in a closet

The snakes won't murder us in our sleep, but if I'm going out in the back 40 I'm carrying.

People who demand to sleep next to loaded guns are absolutely insane.

[IveWornAHundredPants]

62. Well I agree with you there.

[LWolf]

45. Well, that addresses my question.

Do the number of lives saved in self-defense justify the number of accidental and suicidal gun deaths?

Nope.

[snooper2]

50. Why you have Uzi in your handle if you hate guns?

[newmember]

52. Me thinks we are being had

[appleannie1]

51. I worked in PD for 15 years. We were taught that most home intruders do not carry weapons. I

That more home owners that confront intruders are killed with their own weapons, including guns, than anything else. Burglars are only interested in taking things. It is a non violent crime unless confronted.

[Brewinblue]

63. I

truly hate gun nuts, especially those who poach here on the Dem side. You are not Dems, you are not liberals. Please leave and find your own POS party!

[GreenStormCloud]

72. Who appointed you DU zampolit?

The administrators have already made that decision, years ago. If you don't like it - too bad.

[Marrah_G]

74. Meh- just another shit-stirring post

off to ignore you go!!!!!!!!!!

[markpkessinger]

78. I think a great deal depends on how guns and ammunition are stored in a home...

... I am no "gun nut," and am certainly in favor of stricter gun regulation. Yes, there is a problem with gun violence in this country. But I also grew up in rural Pennsylvania, in a small hamlet in which virtually every house had not one, but likely many, guns of various types, mostly used for hunting. Our family, too, had an assortment of hunting rifles and shotguns used for that purpose. But here's the thing: my father was fanatical (and I mean that in a good way) about gun safety. And indeed, most of other families in town were similarly concerned with gun safety. There were some basic protocols that were followed in our house when it came to guns:

• loaded guns were never, under any circumstances, permitted indoors (or inside a vehicle);
  
  
• guns were stored in a locked cabinet that was in my parents' bedroom, and for which my father had the only key;
  
  
• Ammunition was stored and locked away completely separately (in a big, antique, steel safe with a combination lock that sat in my father's study. Only he and my mother knew the combination; and
  
  
• My siblings and I were taught, from as early as I can remember, NEVER to point any gun -- NOT EVEN A TOY GUN -- at another person (and we would get in serious trouble if Mom or Dad ever saw us pointing a toy gun at someone else).

One can safely own a gun, and safely keep it in one's home. But it requires serious intentionality and attention to gun safety.

[Jake Izzy]

81. It's unconstitutional to not allow a person to have a gun at home

...