General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf you are a pro-gun DUer, what are you doing to oppose the NRA?
Glenn Beck was the keynote speaker at the NRA insanity convention: Bloomberg is a Nazi
and more news out of that vile little get together.
Conservative firebrand Glenn Beck took aim squarely at New York City and its mayor Saturday night
Delivering the keynote address at the National Rifle Association convention, Beck suggested that the Big Apples slogan under Mayor Bloomberg should be, You Will Heart New York and he flashed a graphic of a man making a Hitler-esque salute.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/hundreds-kids-play-guns-nra-convention-article-1.1335250
On Friday, the convention felt like a mini-CPAC, in that several potential presidential candidates took turns on the stage Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, Perry or appeared in video form, as Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker and Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan did. Perhaps that explains the feeling of doom amid glorious triumph, because the gun legislation victory came just a few months after devastating electoral defeat. And so there were many displays of masculine swagger, enough to show that all these tough young guns could take on all of the week young gun-grabbers currently occupying the White House. Perry was introduced with a comically over-the-top video of himself showing great manliness while shooting at targets and wearing safety equipment. There's that GIF above, but you need the Ted Nugent soundtrack for full effect:
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/05/nra-convention-2013/64875/
he NRA is supposed to be a non-partisan group. But in the second night of its annual meeting and exhibition, the catalog of speakersincluding Sarah Palin, Bobby Jindal, Scott Walker, Ted Cruz and John Boltonand the rhetoric espoused by them, does not point to non-partisanship. Instead, it points to a deeper and more aggressive embrace of the far right.
http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/05/03/the-nra-moves-dangerously-far-to-the-right/
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
premium
(3,731 posts)how do you know they're NRA members? What, do you walk up to people and ask them if they're NRA members?
I doubt many people would tell a stranger that their NRA members, most would just tell a stranger to mind their own business.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
premium
(3,731 posts)maybe that happens in the big cities, I don't know, I've lived in rural america all my life where we live and let live and don't ask too many questions about other peoples business.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)How do you know they are NRA members? Or do you just view all gun owners as one?
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)I don't belong to any gun rights or gun control group. I consider both org. less than honest, except this one,
http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/
They seem pretty reasonable.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)right wing bigots' agenda. Most ate glad NRA is out there "fighting for their 2nd Amendment rights." Some in gungeon openly cheer their success.
premium
(3,731 posts)so predictable.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)LOL
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)LOL
been probably 20 years since I fired a gun....How about you?
russspeakeasy
(6,539 posts)Good question .
cali
(114,904 posts)I'd like to see responsible and liberal gun owners doing something as gun owners, to counter the NRA.
premium
(3,731 posts)but here is a great alternative to the NRA:
http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)They vote Democratic, contribute to campaigns, speak up in favor of sound gun control legislation (what little there is of it).
There's really not much else that's effective to do.
They also typically focus on the gun nuts, rather than those who are also in favor of sound gun control legislation but may differ from you in other respects.
ileus
(15,396 posts)Are there any good progressive 2A groups I can join?
cali
(114,904 posts)Xithras
(16,191 posts)Only 10% of gun owners are NRA members. The other 90% have better things to do with their time, mostly because they support their rights to own guns but not the political agenda that goes along with NRA membership.
So, if you wanted to create a "progressive" 2A group to appeal to the other 90%, what would they stand for?
I'm asking because I'm genuinely curious. I'm one of those 90%, and I've thought about this before myself. I can't figure out what the platform would be... "We support gun rights...and....?"
The only attempt at creating a "liberal" gun rights organization was the AHSA, but it was more "liberal" and less "gun organization". Gun owners weren't going to join a 2A group that supported just about every gun control and gun seizure law that had been proposed at the time. It promptly died for obvious reasons.
premium
(3,731 posts)I don't belong to any gun rights or gun control org., got a lot better things to do in my life.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)Without congress in their pocket what are they gonna do?
The only real power they have comes from crooked politicians so the only real thing one can do is vote in ones that are not crooked.
-Not a gun owner, but pro-choice on guns.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)I consider the NRA a Republican organization, despite their insistence that they are "nonpartisan". Reminds me of Fox News...
rrneck
(17,671 posts)And as a gun owner I support intelligent legislation. One way I do that is to explain the issues around firearms to people who have never so much as held one so they can make informed decisions regarding said legislation.
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)Yep. Almost five years ago I became an NRA member. After five years I'll have voting rights for the Board of Directors. I talked to one of the directors occasionally. We talk about muzzling Ted Nugent in particular.
My goal is to join others and bring the NRA back to a non-partisan stance while protecting the 2nd Amendment and related things. The NRA doesn't have be right wing or say bat shit crazy things to protect gun rights. Of course, when Democrats propose benighted legislation like the 2013 AWB, it doesn't help.
You may not get a lot of responses from pro-gun DUers because they may be in the uneasy place I am. While I am angered or repulsed by many things said and done by the NRA, if it weren't for the NRA I wouldn't be able to own most my firearms.
I will say that during the 2012 election and the things said about the President, I really questioned my plan.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)So how many assault weapons and high-capacity magazines do you own?
SQUEE
(1,315 posts)But I do have standard capacity magazines and quite a few AR's, FALs, M1a and even a brand spanking new Tavor.
I even have some "clips" for my SKS and Garand.
I like a well rounded collection.
rppper
(2,952 posts)11 y/o...a single shot .410 was my first...I own what I was taught to use and service in the navy....an m1911, a mossburg 500 pump 12 and an old enfield .303 I've hunted with for 30 years...nothing fancy, standard clips, 3 for the rifle and 3 for the .45, a couple of boxes of shells for each. The 500 has an extended tube. It is all I feel I need for any situation. It is the exact collection I've owned for nearly two decades. My kids grew up respecting the guns, knowing how to use them and when and when not to use them. When my step kids are mature enough I'll teach them if they choose so.
That being said, My friends from back home in east Texas...land of Ghomert...tell me I shouldn't keep them locked up for gawds sake! "We have a boar problem" is an excuse I get for 30 rnd clips....I'm thinking "are you serious!? That's not what our people taught us..." It's not even about self protection or well regulated militia anymore with them....it's all about f@cking over a sitting president and waving their f@cking c@cks around.
A year ago people on this board called me paranoid for taking the rhetoric from these groups seriously...it's good to see a lot of my liberal friends here taking them with more than a grain of salt now...some of these folks are keyboard warriors in moms basement, but there are some that are dedicated to the cause and able and willing to pull something stupid....im truly worried that this will lead to some kind of a self fulfilling prophecy soon....I hope for the best but I feel it's best to stay vigilant for the alternative.
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)In the past ten years, I've bought and sold (due to high price spikes from AWB chitter chatter) an AK pistol, Saiga 12 shotgun, HK 93 rifle, mini-30 with pistol stock, and a mini-14 with folding stock.
Of course, in the past there has been chitter chatter about handgun bans, junk gun bans, and large rifle bans (.50 BMG rifles) which have mostly been beaten back into fantasy land.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Response to ellisonz (Reply #89)
Post removed
Robb
(39,665 posts)No problem with it then, clearly.
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)Especially when you consider his opponent, Mitt. Yes, they were anti-Obama in 2008, but it was different in 2012.
For 2008 the NRA distorted and exaggerated an actual voting record.
In 2012 they had less to work with during his presidency and tried to make the case that he was just waiting for his second to turn on the pro- restrictionist rhetoric.
Robb
(39,665 posts)It's like saying a big turd tastes worse than a small one. Why choose to eat the turd at all?
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)Robb
(39,665 posts)You support them.
Can you understand why this might be troubling?
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)That is why I do my best to convince Democratic politicians to be better than Republicans on 2nd Amendment issues.
Robb
(39,665 posts)...until such time as Democrats "straighten out" on gun issues. That about it?
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)But the NRA is, or at least should be as it claims to be, a one issue organization.
Robb
(39,665 posts)aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)...that other more reasonable laws have a better chance of passing.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)you're enabling and encouraging that kind of talk.
Even the elder President Bush had the sense to leave almost 20 years ago for rhetoric milder in comparison.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)fuck it up and keep it fucked up.
You are an obstructionist who supports an anti-democratic, anti-common sense, anti-safety organization.
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)The Institute for Legislative Action is the lobbying part of the NRA.
It took the NRA about 45 years to go from reasonable to today, it will take a while to change it again into something better.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)For example, your dues help the ILA branch's fundraising. Because they help overall NRA fundraising.
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)gejohnston
(17,502 posts)It might be possible to get a more moderate or liberal voting bloc to change the board of directors, but the system might be rigged to prevent it.
Uzair
(241 posts)Oppose the NRA? All they do is spout NRA lies.
11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)he burst into flames in my front yard. I quit the NRA years ago, and my letter to them explaining why I was doing so mentioned that I think they are a bunch of fucking nuts who have nothing to do with responsible gun ownership and everything to do with lining the pockets of firearms manufacturers.
Now, feel free to get on back to your lazy ass broad brush generalizations.
If you're not who I'm talking about, why are you so offended? Or could it be that you HAVE spouted NRA lies?
Deb
(3,742 posts)using the ignore is the only relief from the stench
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Just a little smile, to show you're okay and in a good mood. Come on. It won't hurt. See?
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Always so valuable...
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)I am largely referring to the gungeon dwellers, here.
I do acknowledge that there are some very liberal folk here that also own guns ... though, they are adamant about their "right" to owns guns... they are also quick to express agreement with most other liberal causes. They are not the ones extolling the virtues of the NRA (and there are those that have no problem expressing the sentiments that the NRA is a right wing nut job organization). With those DUers I have no problem agreeing to disagree on this subject and can enjoy our agreement on o many others. I will even acknowledge, that for you DU may be a difficult place right now. I encourage you to stay and participate.
To the Gungeoneers that can't pass up a "gun" thread (yet somehow are absent from almost all other DU conversations)... that must creep out out the gungeon in order to explain to all of us how the NRA is really a great group and provide so many wonderful services and is choc'ful'o good things .... why are you here? You have zero chance of changing minds, your lack of meaningful participation in conversations related to other liberal goals and ideas is noted ... your support of a clearly right wing lobbying group on a left leaning discussion board must be frustrating. You don't 'get good ones in" .... you pretty much convince folk that gun supporters or only "nut jobs" (very unfair to the "gun folk above, that do not share the crazy).
I suppose its better that you post here rather than a place that actually has the potential to incite folk ... but ....
hack89
(39,171 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Paladin
(28,243 posts)sarisataka
(18,483 posts)I try to stay aware of pending legislation and contact my legislators. I do not blindly support all legislation but the vast majority I am in favor. I will explain why I oppose a certain piece if I do not support it.
When in at the range or in the company of other gun owners, I will engage in discussion about gun control proposals and point out many that will have benefit to public safety with zero to minimal impact on legal ownership and purchase.
If I am speaking to NRA members I will point out that all of the extremist rhetoric of the current leadership is counter productive and encourage them to vote in the board elections to have better representation of gun owners by the NRA.
The recent blatant expeditions in support of RW non-gun agenda is useful in showing that the current leadership is moving towards a more politics based rather than interest based position. There is no benefit to NRA members and gun owners by this move.
kudzu22
(1,273 posts)Are they anti-gay? Do they advocate shutting down Medicare? Do they advocate tax cuts for the 1%? If so, I haven't seen it. I've only ever seen them support gun rights, so I see no reason to oppose them. That Beck, Palin and the other RWers support them is an example of a stopped clock being right twice a day.
Uzair
(241 posts)Guess what? The gun cause IS a right wing cause. Congratulations on supporting them.
BainsBane
(53,012 posts)over democrats by huge margins. That means they support ALL right wing causes.
kudzu22
(1,273 posts)even over republicans in some cases. If the dems would run more pro-gun candidates they'd get more of that NRA money.
BainsBane
(53,012 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)That stuff, right? You' ve probably noticed there's a reason why the nra is still lily-white despite the nation's evolving demographics, right?
muriel_volestrangler
(101,265 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)and more bigots and right wingers.
SQUEE
(1,315 posts)to people free of the constant propagandizing by the NRA.
Most instructors and ranges pimp the NRA and the Repubs at every oppurtunity. I offer technical training and a place for people to learn and practice weapons handling without a bunch of NRA bullshit thrown at them.
louis-t
(23,267 posts)The members are overwhelmingly pro background check. It's the members that should be opposing their leadership.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)But all I hear is <crickets>.
So I have to conclude that there are no responsible gun owners in the NRA. QED
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)That is the most important thing. Contributions to campaigns are helpful, too.
Next, sign petitions for specific bills.
Next, speak up in favor of sound gun control bills, when people are discussing it.
What else can a citizen do regarding any issue?
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Stretch714
(90 posts)who I consider middle of the road on gun issues. The current leadership is out of touch with most NRA members and it seems to be getting worse. All the "from my cold dead hands" shit bugs the crap out of me.
The NRA can be changed but it will take time and can only be done from the inside. A lot of gun owners I know are getting tired of the BS from the NRA leaders and are trying to change it. And I feel it can and will be changed sooner or later.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)You'll need lots of it.
Robb
(39,665 posts)"But first, right, here's my check. Go at it, Wayne!"
baldguy
(36,649 posts)Because they're the one who pick the leadership & drive the policies of the NRA.
Stretch714
(90 posts)It works the same way in DC, should we give up that fight also?
baldguy
(36,649 posts)Kosh said "The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
The RW slide of the NRA is an avalanche that started 30-40 yrs ago. The NRA is funded by & exists solely for the benefit of the corporate weapons manufacturers. And lately those manufacturers feel they benefit when mass murders occur. You think that you, as a pebble, can change its direction? Even if all the 4 million individual member pebbles get together? The NRA doesn't work that way & you know it, because the background check bill was defeated. You can't fight an avalanche, you just can get out of its way & let it fall into the abyss, then work to make sure they don't happen in the future. That means supporting & voting for Democrats who oppose the NRA, at all levels of govt.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Don't pay attention to the Debbie Downers.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)You are a part of the problem.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)If so you are funding their craziness.
Can you please tell us what you are doing to change them from the inside. Please tell us about what specific actions you have taken that could potentially have a major impact in changing them. Have you publically spoken out against the current board members? Were they visible actions that could have an impact on the organization as a whole?
Are you really making a major effort to change them or are you just sending them money and pretending your single vote for the board is going to make a major impact in an organization that is so far lost?
Frustratedlady
(16,254 posts)I am signing every petition I can and discussing/easing fears in the minds of friends about having their guns taken away. My first comment is, "Now, think sensibly about this...how are they going to take away your guns?"
One friend is adamant the government is wrong because her husband (deceased) has always been a member of the NRA. "Not the present-day NRA. Like the present-day Republican Party, they are nowhere near what they were in those days." She hates news, so she doesn't keep up except with local news.
There is a lot of fear out there about government taking over, throwing us in FEMA camps, taking away SS checks and Medicare...on and on and on. I'll say one thing for the RW, they've done a good job with their propaganda on guns and government. It's only going to get worse with 2014 coming up.
TheKentuckian
(25,020 posts)to advance the space program, or almost anything else that I don't specifically donate or volunteer for.
I think I was going to toss the catchall, work for, support, and vote for Democrats but I don't think that is much of answer to specific questions like what are you doing about income and wealth inequality or to control Wall Street and if one gives the answer I was thinking of rolling out it would be laughable in response.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)They are a Republican ancillary organization. Glenn beck? Really?
morningfog
(18,115 posts)sir pball
(4,737 posts)Such as magazine limits and universal background che ks (actually all transfers via FFL), among others. Granted I don't like an AWB but that's about my only difference from Party orthodoxy.
But after all that, I have been explicitly told that since I own firearms, I am the NRA and there will be no discussing with me; way to marginalize a lifelong liberal with a consistently straight D national ballot.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)sir pball
(4,737 posts)I guess I'll vote R from now on, you seem to expect it.
Good on you making magazine limits and universal background checks law...oh wait, that's what I support. Us damn Republicans (I ain't one, ever)
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Autumn
(44,980 posts)I wouldn't even know what the NRA does if it wasn't for DU.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)period. Actually there meddling and siding with the gun lobby is endangering my right. It makes people involved in historic work to have to expend energy and time to re-educate the government agencies and politicians. `
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)i used to subscribe to the nra for 10 years but i stopped in the early 80`s. my father in law also dropped his lifetime membership for the same reason.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Because I'm not familiar with what the NRA sells or does not sell, I went to their web site but could not find the NRA offering AK-47's or any other kind of rifle.
http://www.nrastore.com/nrastore/ProductDetail.aspx?p=CT+453&ct=e
Can you please help with a few more details?
mwrguy
(3,245 posts)Everyone who spends money with the arms industry supports the NRA to some degree, and therefore supports the republican party and the people who attack Obama.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)And in the primaries voting for the farthest left candidate who can win. And in both cases giving money, making phone calls, and knocking on doors for the candidate I'm supporting. I'm not a single issue voter; I would give up my preferences on gun control to see my preferences on wages, health care, and a lot of other things.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I went at it from a different angle last week and didn't get many responses. Some of the responses I did get had some excellent information. The fact is, many here are simply anti-NRA, which is a good position to hold. The problem is, they really aren't pro-anything. Very few support organizations to combat the NRA and will lobby congress for sensible gun control.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022793005
I am guilty of being one of those duers.
G_j
(40,366 posts)that their fear mongering, blatant lies and
insanity, put them in the same realm as white supremacists and other hate groups. IMHO.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)I don't see myself owning a gun. The NRA? I could care less.
Paladin
(28,243 posts)It cuts both ways, you see. And I sleep better, knowing that the NRA doesn't speak for me in any way, shape or form.