I'm for gun control and pit bull control.

[boston bean]

So, there!



Oh and p.s. I'm for birth control, too.

[DrDan]

1. +1

[baldguy]

2. Me too!

There are too many people that shouldn't have guns, and there are too many people that shouldn't have dogs, and are too many people that shouldn't have either.

Of course, a gun can't cuddle up to you & keep you warm on a cold morning, or ask you to play with them, or do something silly to make you laugh, or defend your home when you're not there, or comfort you when you feel sad, or show how happy they are when you come home.

Of course, guns don't get into the garbage & spread it all over the kitchen, or pee on the living room rug either.

[boston bean]

3. I dont' want to live with guns all around me, and people telling me I need one to keep myself

and family safe.

And I don't want to live next to an irresponsible pit bull owner either. Next thing you'll hear from pit bull owners, is that we all need one to keep ourselves safe from other pit bulls.

[PeaceNikki]

4. psssst...........Your ridiculous false equivalency is showing.

[boston bean]

5. pssst, psssst, psssst..

pssst....

[baldguy]

6. I don't have a Pit Bull to protect myself from other people with Pit Bulls.

Orchid is a lover, not a fighter.

[PeaceNikki]

7. And further, NO defender of pits has or ever would make the argument this person claimed.

Ever. We know pits and ALL dogs should only be in the hands of responsible and caring people who do not want to encourage them to fight.

And the implication is offensive.

Orchid's beautiful.

[boston bean]

9. I never said they did. You say I said that, but that is not what I said. nt

[PeaceNikki]

11. "Next thing you'll hear from pit bull owners, is that we all need one to keep ourselves safe...

from other pit bulls." ~you

[boston bean]

12. Right, I never said they were saying it.

A bit of rhetorical flair to make a point.

[PeaceNikki]

13. You mean bullshit hyperbole?

[boston bean]

14. In your mind maybe, but stop making up bullshit.

Read what I write, and if you need clarification, I will be happy to provide it.

[PeaceNikki]

15. Unless you've actually heard that argument made, it's bullshit hyperbole. Not "flair".

[boston bean]

17. I guess you know best peacenikki.

It was a rhetorical flair to point out an absurdity.

You don't get it, and want to determine is hyperbolic bullshit, you can do that. No sweat off my back.

[blueamy66]

65. Orchid looks alot like the pit that bit me yesterday

except the eyes....the pit from yesterday had redder eyes....

Sorry, but because of yesterday's adventures, I have no tolerance for pits anymore. They will scare the shit out of me forever.

[baldguy]

67. What did the dog's owner look like? That's who you should be mad at.

If the owner had a mustache & a red T-shirt, are you going to be afraid of everyone who has a mustache & a red T-shirt?

[blueamy66]

70. Yes, because it is know that men with mustaches and red tshirts are known attackers....

NOT

Listen, the friends I am staying with have an AmStaff; she is one beautiful dog and very well behaved. I guess if she bit me I'd be afraid of AmStaffs.

But I got bit by a pitbull...as soon as I saw it's huge body and ugly face lumbering toward me, I knew I was in for some trouble.

[baldguy]

72. Um... hate to tell you, but AmStaffs are Pit Bulls.

Pit Bull isn't a breed, it's a job description. Generally, Pit Bull-type dogs are those descended fro the original "bull & terrier" from the 17th & 18th century: American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, American Bulldog, and other related breeds. In some BSLs they list about 20 different breeds - and since the BSLs don't work they keep adding more breeds to them.

[PeaceNikki]

76. One of the breeds most commonly called "pits", too.

Wow.

[REP]

122. I was bitten by a domestic animal; 4 days in the hospital, nearly died

Came close to losing my thumb and/or hand





It's been over a month and I still haven't regained use of my thumb. I may still need surgery.

The animal who did this?



My very scared 10-lb cat.

[zerosumgame0005]

63. not much better

living next to an irresponsible poodle owner either...those sharp little teeth gripping your ankle while trying to get to work in the morning!

[hrmjustin]

78. Welcome to DU my friend!

[Auntie Bush]

95. Welcome to DU! Glad to see you!

[In_The_Wind]

8. +1

[hobbit709]

10. I'm all for stupidity control and I ain't getting that either.

[Buzz Clik]

16. Pit bulls do not bite people, people do.

[PeaceNikki]

18. Or... golden retrievers?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2132912/Horror-family-dog-kills-dismembers-month-old-baby-father-slept.html

A two-month-old child was killed and dismembered by a dog in his family's South Carolina home as his father slept, authorities said Friday.
Aiden McGrew's mother Chantel called 911 when she got home around 11am from a doctor's appointment and discovered the boy's leg was severed.
The Dorchester County Sheriff’s Office said the boy was attacked and dismembered by a recently rescued retriever.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2132912/Horror-family-dog-kills-dismembers-month-old-baby-father-slept.html#ixzz2SQK2k5eB

[boston bean]

20. that article states it's a mix.

Do you know what "mix". If you do, please let us know.

If you don't know maybe you shouldn't state with such emphasis that it's a "golden retriever".

[PeaceNikki]

22. uh huh. And "pit bull" isn't a breed.

http://www.beachpetpals.org/info/display?PageID=5124

The “Pit Bull” isn’t an actual breed at all, but a slang term that current american culture uses to describe any dog that has a big head, cropped ears, brindle coat or eye patch usually a large/stocky dog. The true breeds most commonly labeled as Pit Bulls are: American Pitbull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier and Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Unfortunately the Pit Bull has become popular with the gang-subculture who have exploited this breed by forcing them into dog fighting rings, and breeding and training them to be aggressive. Today, many people automatically associate the Pit Bull with crime, gangs, and poverty when, in fact, most Pit Bulls are owned by your average upstanding citizens. With the explosion of Pit Bull breeders, thousands of Pit Bulls are ending up in shelters across the country, topping the list of the most euthanized pet. The fact is, millions of Pit Bulls are living peacefully in homes throughout the country.

[boston bean]

23. uh huh? does that mean that pit bulls don't exist, really?

That a lab couldn't be mixed with a pit?

[PeaceNikki]

19. German Shepherds and Labs, too?

http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2013/05/05/columbus-dog-attack-woman-dies.html

Woman Dies From Injuries After Dog Attack
Sunday May 5, 2013 8:51 AM

COSHOCTON, Ohio - A 35-year-old Coshocton woman died Saturday night at Grant Medical Center after suffering injuries from a dog attack, according to our media partners at the Coshocton Tribune.

Rachael Honabarger was attacked by a family pet Tuesday at her home.

A neighbor stopped to pull the German Shepherd off her, and called 911.

According to Coshocton County Dog Warden Russell Dreher, it’s unclear what will happen to the dog.

http://now.msn.com/man-bites-dog-to-halt-attack-on-wife

Man bites dog to save wife from brutal attack
20 hrs ago
They say "man bites dog" is the best story in journalism, but there was nothing good about a vicious dog attack thwarted only by one Iowan’s desperate jaws. Caren Henry of Grimes, Iowa, was brutally attacked by a 50-pound Labrador retriever mix in an assault so violent, it ripped her nose off. Husband Laine also suffered bites, but stopped the attack by biting the dog’s own nose. Caren needs multiple surgeries to rebuild her face, but the dog could walk away scot-free. The Iowa county where the incident occurred lacks a vicious-dog ordinance to put down the animal. So it’s possible that after time in quarantine, the dog could be released to its owner.

It's weird how brutal and deadly attacks by other breeds don't get the airtime that pits do.

Oh, and Rotts:
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/22163962/kauai-boy-attacked-by-neighbors-dog

KAPAA (HawaiiNewsNow) - An 8-year-old Kauai boy remains hospitalized two days after he was mauled by a neighbor's dog. According to the child's family, it's not the first time the rottweiler has attacked someone.

Jeremiah Dela Cruz is recovering after a terrifying attack. He was bicycling to his home on Makana Road in Kapaa with two friends at about 5:30 p.m. on Thursday.

"A 110-pound rottweiler came over the fence and attacked him, pulling him from the bike and continuing to attack him," said Jeremiah's grandfather Roger Walraven.

A neighbor heard Jeremiah screaming in pain.

"He saved my grandson's life, taking the boy's bike and beating the dog off my grandson and then putting the bike between him and the attacking dog," said Walraven.

[boston bean]

21. nope, just pit bull control. nt

[PeaceNikki]

24. Got it. Your opinion is more akin to the RW hatred towards Muslims...

than the hyperbolic jump you make to PB owners and the NRA talking point.

[boston bean]

25. That is fucking hilarious! I am roflmao!

Listen, you want to have knock down drag out fight with someone, please choose someone else. I'm happy today!

[pipoman]

28. "NRA talking point"

The stupidest, most over used attempt to slur others on this site for the past few months...how about pointing out said fictitious "NRA talking point", eh? Maybe a link? Of coarse not..there is no link because there is no talking point..

[PeaceNikki]

34. uh...

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/12/21/167785169/live-blog-nra-news-conference

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun," said Wayne LaPierre, NRA's executive vice president.

[pipoman]

87. Not even close..LOL..you "NRA talking point"

accusers simply can't argue the issues without attempting to minimize others with ridiculous lies..

[PeaceNikki]

92. I have no clue who or what you are defending.

clearly you're lost. have a good day. goodbye.

[baldguy]

27. And there's where you fail.

Given proper training & socialization, Pit Bulls aren't in need of any more control than any other type of dog.

[boston bean]

29. That is what right wingers say about irresponsible gun owners.

They say it's not the gun, it's the owner of the gun.

A pit bull doesn't train itself. An owner handles it and trains it.

[baldguy]

31. And a gun can't be trained. How safe it is depends on the individual who's carrying it.

One person may be perfectly safe to be around while they're carrying a gun. But that same gun in the hands of killer is the most dangerous thing you'll ever encounter.

How safe a dog is depends on the individual who trains it - the breed doesn't matter.

If a given dog is properly trained & socialized, they'll be perfectly safe to be around. But it it's not properly trained & socialized - or worse, if it's been neglected or abused - the dog may not behave in a socially acceptable manner. (Note that this does not mean the dog is unpredictable.) But again - the breed doesn't matter.

By focusing on the breed you're missing the source of the problem. Dangerous dogs are created by neglectful & abusive people. And, unlike guns (where there's nothing one person can do to a gun to ensure the next person to pick it up won't use it to kill), if a dog is properly trained & socialized it won't be dangerous to anyone.

[boston bean]

33. Right. But it can be used responsibly.

Just as a pit bull owner can be responsible.

However, they are a danger in the hands of the irresponsible.

I don't want to live near people that have pit bulls even on leashes, I don't want to live in a place where people walk around with guns slung around their shoulder either.

Both infringe on my rights to be safe, and live life in the pursuit of happiness.

But this is just my view. I understand others feel differently, but I'm consistent in my views. I don't think that others can say the same. And that is what a discussion board is for. Thanks for being respectful with me.

[baldguy]

50. If, god forbid, my Pit Bull ever fell into the hands of an irresponsible human, she would suffer.

She would bleed. She might even attack that irresponsible human who was abusing her. She WOULD NOT harm another human. And she would not harm anyone else, either.

You see, she's already been through that. As a puppy, she was intended to be a bait dog. She was neglected & abused because she wasn't meant to live just long enough for her to be killed. She's grown up to be a happy, friendly & well-adjusted canine citizen. She does have a lingering timidity which is a little troubling in that she won't defend herself, even when it's warranted. She's OK with other dogs one-on-one, but in a group four or more she tends to go off by herself or cling to me for emotional support.

The same can't be said for a gun. Being an inanimate object, the way it's treated by one owner doesn't get passed on to the next.

Dogs are social beings, with emotional ties to their humans. Guns aren't.

[boston bean]

51. Someone else is tellling me that dogs act independently, unlike a gun.

I'm not sure which point I should take into consideration.

[baldguy]

61. You're reading conflict into somewhere there is none.

Dogs - ALL dogs - need to be trained & socialized. So they can behave in human society in an acceptable manner - even INDEPENDENT from it's owner. When I take my dog for a walk, she doesn't pull me in 20 different directions, or growl at other dogs, or jump on people, or wrap herself around my legs. If you took her for a walk, she'd behave the same way. That's the way she's been trained.

[pipoman]

30. And where you fail..

is by being a huge pit bull advocate, constantly pointing out how it is irresponsible pit owners who are to blame and responsible pit owners shouldn't be regulated...sounds reasonable enough...but of coarse you are incapable of seeing the relationship to your other outspoken advocacy of gun bans/control trying to regulate the 99% who never cause problems because of the 1% who are irresponsible..

[baldguy]

32. Guns can't think & react based on how they're trained. Dogs can.

And the biggest problem with guns is that there's a huge multibillion dollar industry (supported by gun owners) that is devoted to opposing any kind of reforms, keeping dangerous weapons in circulation & making it impossible to enforce any kind of responsibility on gun owners.

Animal rescue operations operate on a shoestring, work to rehabilitate abused animals (and if they can't in the rare unfortunate case, they'll destroy the animal), they advocate endlessly for laws to keep animals away from abusive people, try to make sure those people are properly punished under those laws, and provide training to the public to help people be responsible with their animals. EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT GUN OWNERS DO!

What is the result?: ~30 deaths each year from dogs & ~30,000 deaths each year from guns. Gun owners are about 1000x more dangerous than dog owners.

[pipoman]

97. The fact you can't the correlation between these two very similar

arguments is unbelievable..the difference between what you like to do and what others like to do..that is the difference between your two opinions..

[baldguy]

99. You didn't read my post. Or if you did, you couldn't comprehend it.

There is no correlation between the laws used to regulate dogs & the way dogs are treated vs. the laws used to regulate guns & the way guns are treated. And to try to twist the laws meant for one to use as a model for the other is doomed to failure, for the reasons listed in this thread and elsewhere.

I have different opinions on the way dogs should be treated vs. the way guns should be treated for the simple fact that dogs are not guns - something you and the other gun weirdos trying desperately to make that connection don't seem to understand. Dogs have souls. Guns don't.

[pipoman]

105. No, there isn't a correlation

"between the laws used to regulate dogs & the way dogs are treated vs. the laws used to regulate guns & the way guns are treated". There is a correlation between the argument you use to defend the dogs which are responsible for 40+% of all dog attacks (punish the irresponsible pit owners, not the responsible pit owners) and the argument of not punishing the responsible gun owners for the less than 2% who act irresponsibly. It is the same argument.

Dogs are property in our society just as guns are property. You are responsible for what you do with your dog, just as a gun owner is responsible for what they do with their guns. You stated before, "Guns can't think & react based on how they're trained. Dogs can."..I would more trust the thinking of just about any human over the thinking of a dog..no matter how smart the dog is, reasoning is unreliable. We have German Shepards, they are all raised the same. We have had a couple which were extremely protective to the point we had to lock them up when company was here, most however wouldn't hurt anyone...unless they believed we were being hurt. Dogs don't always think right.

[baldguy]

108. So, now you agree there isn't a correlation?

Why do you try to establish one on Post # 28, # 30, #87, and # 104? I guess you're telling too many RW gun weirdo lies to keep your bullshit straight.

[pipoman]

111. No, there's a correlation

and I pointed it out in the post you just responded to...you see it now too, that's why you are pretending I didn't just post..

[baldguy]

113. Your Post # 105: "No, there isn't a correlation."

Like I said, you can't keep your own RW bullshit straight.

[pipoman]

114. Stupidest post EVER..

LOL..FFS...you do know that a "post" includes the "reply title" AND the "message text", no?..Like I said, pretending I didn't write the truth in #105 by claiming only to be able to read the "reply title" is simply idiotic..

[baldguy]

115. You're contradicting yourself & now you're trying to squirm out from under the pile of shit you left

It's not working. You've been caught. Go back to Wayne LaPeirre & ask him to help get your story straight.

[pipoman]

117. LOL...You're forgetting other people can see and read..

[baldguy]

118. Yes, they can. And they can see how full of shit you are.

[pipoman]

119. 'Anger is the first step to enlightenment' or some such..LOL

Some people get angry when they see the errors of their thinking, healthy ones ultimately embrace their truth..

[baldguy]

123. How much anger do you have that you need to allow the slaughter to continue?

How much did you hate the children who were killed at Sandy Hook?

If you were rational, or hadn't sold your soul to the truly evil RW, you'd be angry about the power of the gun mfr's lobby too. Instead you're helping them.

[pipoman]

124. No, just helping a friend see himself as others see him..

[baldguy]

126. They see that I'm right & that the NRA stooge is wrong.

They see that I'm telling the truth & that the RW gun weirdo is lying.

And I don't count fascists among my friends.

[pipoman]

127. LOL..blatent duplicity is such a funny human behavior...

[baldguy]

128. And seeing RWrs laugh at the tragedies they create is sickening.

[Orrex]

37. If they require special training & socialization, why shouldn't they be more tightly regulated?

I know that I can hardly leaf through my local newspaper without tripping over a dozen stories about maulings by Irish Setters.

Oh wait...

[PeaceNikki]

38. That statement is true of all dogs, especially large/strong breeds.

Including golden retrievers, German Shepherds, Labradors , and Rottweilers.

[Orrex]

40. Are there a lot of maulings by golden retrievers?

That sad story is routinely cited by pitbull advocates, but it seems like an extreme outlier.


Are there many accounts of golden retrievers running loose and attacking adults and/or other dogs?

[PeaceNikki]

42. uh... that is a new story. You didn't even read it.

All of those stories are less than a month old. All vicious attacks by dogs are outliers.

Or are you claiming to be "tripping over a dozen stories about maulings by pit bulls" with regularity?

[Orrex]

46. Whoops--shame on me for assuming.

I thought that it was the baby-in-the-swing story. My error.

Here are a few questions, though:

1. How many reported dog bites occur in the US annually?
2. What percentage are caused by pitbulls (or by dogs with significant pitbull lineage)?
3. What percentage of dogs owned in the US are pitbulls (or dogs with significant pitbull lineage)?
4. Do pitbulls (or dogs with significant pitbull lineage) represent a disproportionate percentage of dog attacks in the US?
5. Do pitbull attacks result in fatality more often than other dog attacks?
6. If all large dogs are equally dangerous, why do we never hear about dogfighting rings made up of golden retrievers?

[PeaceNikki]

49. ok

As baldguy noted below:
http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Dog-Bites/dogbite-factsheet.html

"There is currently no accurate way to identify the number of dogs of a particular breed, and consequently no measure to determine which breeds are more likely to bite or kill."

So your questions are not answerable.

[Orrex]

56. But that's not a get-out-of-jail-free card

"There is currently no accurate way to identify the number of dogs of a particular breed, and consequently no measure to determine which breeds are more likely to bite or kill."

And does that mean that we don't know how many examples of a given breed there are, or simply that we have no way to identify "breed" as a means of compiling an accurate census of dogs?

[baldguy]

41. News stories are the most accurate & reliable way to determine a dogs breed.

Oh, wait....

http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Dog-Bites/dogbite-factsheet.html

"There is currently no accurate way to identify the number of dogs of a particular breed, and consequently no measure to determine which breeds are more likely to bite or kill."

And if every dog owner needs to be able to properly train & socialize their animal, how can that be "special"? The fact that they don't - and there's no govt requirement for it to be done - is what causes the problems.

[Orrex]

47. Your statement was ambiguous:

Given proper training & socialization, Pit Bulls aren't in need of any more control than any other type of dog.

If you meant that all dogs require proper training & socialization, then perhaps you could have stated this, instead of singling out pit bulls.

It seems that you're endorsing the claim that pit bulls aren't more likely to bite because there's no way to identify pit bulls or any other dog breed? That's a curious assertion, very much like claiming that no assault weapons are used in gun crimes because "assault weapon" can't be defined with 100% indisputable certainty.

[baldguy]

54. All dogs need proper training & socialization. You're the one singling out Pit Bulls.

And I never said that there's no way to identify a dog's breed. If you had bothered to actually go to the link and read, you'd find the CDC says that there's no way to determine which breeds are more likely to bite or kill, because the only widely-available records of the incidents are news reports - and news reports are wildly inaccurate as a determination of dog breeds.

[Orrex]

60. You listed them by name, which means that you singled them out.

That's incidental to the larger point, though, so I'm not going to quibble about it.


Rather than complaining about apocryphal tales of journalists misidentifying poodles and kittens as pit bulls, how about about holding dog owners more directly responsible when their dogs (of whatever breed) attack people?

Why not treat a dog attack as though the attack were performed by the owner? If a person is mauled by a dog, then make the dog's owner criminally liable as though he or she had mauled the victim in the same way.

[baldguy]

66. We are in agreement then. Dog owners should be responsible for the actions their dogs.

Every dog should be registered. Every dog owner should be licensed & trained on how the handle the dog, and should be required to train & socialize their dog - either personally or by a licensed trainer. Any owner that for some reason can't or won't meet these requirements can't have a dog. And anyone who abuses an animal should get jail time.

What should NOT occur is to have a dog owner be responsible for the actions of an owner of an unrelated dog that they've had no contact with.

[Orrex]

68. I can agree with that, but could you clarify something?

What should NOT occur is to have a dog owner be responsible for the actions of an owner of an unrelated dog that they've had no contact with.

I'm not sure that I understand what you mean by this. Are you saying that dog owners shouldn't be subject to penalties based on other dogs' behavior?

If we stipulate that the other requirement (handling/socialization) is mandatory, then I guess that this makes sense as well.

[baldguy]

71. That's the idea behind Breed Specific Legislation.

Municipalities are conned into banning Pit Bulls because of sensationalized & generally inaccurate news reports of Pit Bulls attacking people. So the owners of the great majority of dogs which have had never bit anyone and have no history of aggression are held responsible for the actions of a few abusive people who should have never had a dog in the first place.

[boston bean]

73. Where are all the inaccurate news reports on pit bull attacks.

There have been studies, as I've read in this thread, that show them to be more violent than other types of dogs.

And of course, much of the time when we hear of child being mauled, we also hear how the dog was always so sweet and they can't imagine what happened, and the blame goes onto the persons who own the dog. Which I agree, the blame does belong there.

We also hear how guns are not dangerous.... people are. I say if there weren't so many god danged guns, there would be less violent gun crime. And we hear how responsible so and so was with guns, but he shot his foot off, or his kid got his gun and blew his sisters brains out. They don't usually say the gun was sweet, because it's not a living breathing creature, but the arguments are all the same.

[baldguy]

81. There's acually a place taht does study these - the National Canine Research Council.

http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/

They look at news reports of deaths due to dog bites, the circumstances of the incidents, how the owner treated the dog, the relationship of the victim to the dog, whether criminal charges were filed and why, and breed attribution when possible. The most most recent report available is from 2011:

http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/tinymce/2011%20Final%20Investigative%20DBRF%20Report.pdf

For most of the incidents reported, the section for breed attribution has the same text: "The media reported the dogs as “pit bull” dogs. NCRC was unable to obtain any evidence or documentation from the owner or authorities that substantiate the breed. NCRC did obtain photographs of the dogs. NCRC submitted the photographs to NCRC’s expert advisor who concluded the breed(s) of the dogs could not be reasonably determined from the photographs."

The final paragraph in the conclusion of the report says it best:
These rare tragedies remind us that all dog owners have an unequivocal responsibility for the humane care (including proper diet, veterinary care, socialization and training), custody (including licensing and microchipping), and control of their dogs.

Guns are entirely different. They have manufacturers, the capabilities of a whole series of guns of a particular model can be determined by testing one example of that model.

[doggie breath]

89. Just like every news story about a shooting...

is an AK47 (or now AR15).
It's funny how every vicious dog is a "Pit Bull", unless they are black and white, in which case they are a "Border Collie".

We work with an all breed rescue and have re-homed about 100 dogs in the last year that were all or mostly Staffordshire Terriers and have yet to have one returned because it has been vicious or bitten someone.

Of course local animal control broke up a dog fighting ring and confiscated over 30 that "all had to be put down because they were trained killers" and made this insightful decision within 24 hours of the dogs arrival.

The more I learn about people, the more I like my dogs.

[Scootaloo]

93. So you support the little bastard daschshund who demolished my kale last week?

THAT dog was obviously not under control

[truebluegreen]

101. Why don't you try for dog control, period?

You would have a bazillion allies and more luck.

[pipoman]

26. Hmm..

except 40% to 45% of dog bites/attacks are consistently attributed to pits..and the remaining 60 or so % are all other breeds..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull

[Dr Hobbitstein]

39. From that same article...

The term pit bull refers to certain breeds of dog – namely, the American Pit Bull Terrier, the American Staffordshire Terrier, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and any crosses between the three. In a few parts of the world, the American Bulldog is also classified as a "Pit Bull-type" dog, despite its major genetic differences.

It clearly defines pit bull as a few different breeds. I had a Boxer/Rottie mix years ago. She was brindle colored. EVERYONE thought she was a pit. She was no pit. Didn't even look like a pit. But if she bit someone, I guarantee the bite would have been blamed on a pit, not a boxer/rottie mix (she looked like a boxer).

[pipoman]

88. Tell it to someone else..

we all know what a pit bull is..and that they exist..and are often owned by morons and idiots..

[truebluegreen]

102. As are guns....

[pipoman]

104. Absolutely..

[Dr Hobbitstein]

106. Apparently you don't: A pit bull...

Is a lovable, friendly dog. My neighbor across the street has one. His bark is HUGE. His bite? Non-existent. Anytime my neighbor goes out of town, I take care of his pit and beagle. The pit is loyal, lovable, and playful. The beagle? She's an escape artist with a bad attitude. Not all pit owners are fucktards. Just the ones you read about in the paper. For every ONE of them, there's at least a few hundred pit owners who are responsible. You're beliefs are all emotion-based. This particular emotion is fear. Quit living in fear. Pits are friendly dogs. Humans, however... They're nasty, vicious, stupid creatures.

[pipoman]

110. you know less than nothing about me..

please explain how 1 (quasi) breed is responsible for 40%+ of dog attacks..why is that? Point to where I said anything about all of them being bad..

[Dr Hobbitstein]

121. It's been explained to you...

Anytime it's a brindle colored dog with a large head, it gets reported as pit bull. Like my Boxer/Rottie that EVERYONE thought was a Pit (she never bit, just stating that everyone who saw her when I brought her out in public asked "is she a pit?&quot . That's why.

[MineralMan]

35. The two are not equivalent at all.

Dogs are capable of independent action. Firearms are not.

All dogs should be under the owner's control at all times, not just pit bulls. Just yesterday, my beagle/basset mix participated in an event sponsored by the Animal Humane Society, where we adopted our doggie. Over 6000 people and roughly 4000 dogs participated in their annual Walk for Animals. Every dog was on a leash, held by its owner. Among the dogs we met were pit bulls and just about every other breed and mix you can imagine.

Not a single dog growled or showed any aggression towards my inoffensive and uber-friendly dog. Not one. I heard almost no barking and only one altercation between dogs at this event. Why? Because each dog was under the control of its owner, on a leash 6' long or less. It was easy. It was fun. My poor little dog was beside himself, wanting to sniff every other dog and every human on the walk. But, he behaved himself well, wagged his tail constantly, like all the other dogs, and we thoroughly enjoyed ourselves.

Control is the answer. Any dog, properly controlled by its owner, is a good dog. Any dog not in the control of its owner, whether on a leash or confined to some space, has the potential to act aggressively on its own. That is why there are leash laws and laws to prevent dogs from running loose.

Again, firearms cannot act independently, and can only be fired by someone holding them. Just the opposite is true of dogs.

Here is Dude, with me at the Walk for Animals yesterday. We raised $276 for the organization:

[boston bean]

43. You seem to miss the point where there is great similarity.

Both are to be controlled by "responsible" human beings.

I'm convinced by the facts that there are some dogs that are more dangerous to people, just as there are high capacity clips, that can cause carnage not possible with a 6 shooter.

[MineralMan]

44. No. It is you who are missing the point.

A dog can act independently. A firearm cannot.

Thanks you for considering logic.

[boston bean]

45. It is the responsibility of the owner of the dog or the gun.

my point stands, and I understand fully.

[MineralMan]

48. Sorry. In one case, the owner must actively control the dog

to prevent hazards to others. In the other the owner must control the firearm to cause hazards to others. An unattended dog is a hazard to others at all times, on its own initiative, which is why control of dogs must be maintained at all times. An unattended firearm can do nothing whatsoever on its own, and must be controlled by a human to be a hazard to others. The two are not equivalent at all.

[boston bean]

53. Prevent and cause in your post to me.... seems to be the same to me.

very little difference.

Someone controls their gun to prevent an accident from happening.

[MineralMan]

57. Control of a firearm is also required to

fire it, you see. In fact, without that control, it cannot fire at all. You are missing the difference here. In one case the hazardous thing can cause a hazard all on its own, and must be controlled to prevent that. In the other case, the hazardous thing cannot cause a hazard on its own at all. Active control is required to load, aim, and fire the firearm. Left alone, it cannot fire. Left alone, it is inert. Dogs are far from inert when left alone, although my dog spends most of that time asleep.

[boston bean]

59. Tell your story to a victim of pit bull that was uncontrolled.

ie, left unattended (ie, to make the anology gun left unattended).

[MineralMan]

62. I give up...

[boston bean]

69. ok, it seems we both agree that the

dog and the gun need to be controlled at all times.

You are making a disctinction that a pit bull can do all this stuff on his own, as he is not an intert object like a gun.

So, are you saying an unattended, uncontrolled, pit bull is more dangerous than a loaded gun left around the house and within childrens reach?

[jazzimov]

125. After following this discussion, one thing is very clear to me -

you know absolutely NOTHING about either guns or dogs. Which is indicative of most of both discussions and much of the problem with both - which is the ONLY thing that either discussion has in common.

There is no commonality to the 2 issues.

Guns are inanimate objects.

Dogs are complicated animals - ALL dogs. A dog's psychological make-up is just as complicated as any human beings, it is only our homo-centric beliefs that make us try to imprint our own belief systems upon this animal. Although it is true that over many generations we have tried to breed certain PHYSICAL traits into certain breeds of dogs, no one has been successful in identifying the psychological aspects of any breed, much less had any success in breeding any particular psychological traits.

EVERY dog is unique, despite the breed. At this point in our understanding of dog psychology, Breed Specific Legislation is akin to Racism.

There are some generalizations that we can make - for instance, many dogs tend to be territorial. Further, they respect other dogs territories. For instance, I took my Pit-Bull mix for a walk and when we came upon a smaller dog's territory my "scary dog" immediately went on his back and exposed his stomach - which is the ultimate show of submission. However, when the same dog came to "his" property, he chased off the same dog and seemed intent on killing it until it either showed submission or left "his" property.

I saw the same thing with my previous dog, which was also a "pound puppy" but after numerous Vet visits I was able to assume that he was a Basenji/Shepherd mix. Best dog ever. But there was one day when he challenged me as the Leader - and I had to prove myself by asserting myself over him. That was nowhere in any dog-owner book. But after that, he was the most loyal dog anyone could expect.

Many people expect a "pet" - whether a dog or a cat - to be an inanimate object like a "gun". NO, they aren't - they are living creatures with psychologies of their own. You should "raise" a pet just like you would a child.

If you buy a dog just for protection - ANY dog, not just Pit-Bulls - and don't give them the love and attention that they crave just like you and your children crave;

Then you have a big problem.

[uppityperson]

82. omg, you are

a gnome! Cute picture and cutie dog.

[MineralMan]

83. Either that, or a very large elf. I'm not sure, and

my parents aren't saying.

[Evoman]

96. What a good looking dog you got yourself, Mineral Man.

Thanks for raising that money.

[rrneck]

36. ...

[Go Vols]

64. +1

[progressoid]

77. ...

[Apophis]

52. Instead of gun control, I'm in favor of getting rid of the 2nd Amendment.

I love pit bulls. You're on your own with that one.

[quinnox]

55. I hate those damn dogs

Fuck pit bulls. I carry pepper spray and I'm ready for those vicious attack dogs. I got a good sized knife too, if it was necessary to use it while defending myself. And the right wing gun nuts are part of the problem in this country. Assholes.

[flvegan]

80. Yum.

Word salad.

[RebelOne]

85. Yep, I gotta agree. n/t

[ZombieHorde]

58. I used to be for bowel control,

but then I realized my God-given right as an American to poop where and how I please. My underwear is now blessed with Freedom Streaks!

[Hippo_Tron]

74. Also, nobody should ever eat at the Olive Garden, period...

[boston bean]

75. I have eaten there on a few occasions, but not recently.

[one_voice]

79. How would you go about...

pit bull control?

How would that work? Are there other breeds that would require regulating? Rotties, for example? Love me a Rottie, a pittie too. Actually, I love all dogs, I don't discriminate.

But I don't know how the control would work. Where I live, Delaware, the city of Wilmington, you have to license and register your dog with the city and carry it with at all times when you're out with the dog. There are a bunch of laws.

License and register your dog with the City of
Wilmington. You can get both the license and
registration at the Delaware Humane
Association.

2.
Attach the current license tag to your dog’s
collar. You will need to get a new license tag
each year in January.

3.
Carry your dog’s license/registration form with
you whenever you take your dog out in public.
You may want to have it laminated to protect
it.

4.
You must care for your dog humanely,
providing food, clean water, shelter and
veterinary care.

5.
When walking your dog off of your personal
property, it must be leashed at all times. Under
no circumstances shall a person under age
21 accompany a Pit Bull Terrier without the
registered owner present
unless the person and
the dog are within 100 feet of the dog’s
residence and the dog is leashed. When entering
any park located within the City limits, your dog
must be leashed and muzzled.
For your dog’s
safety, use a cage muzzle or other muzzle
that allows your dog to open-mouth pant. If
you do not allow your dog to pant when
exercising, you may kill or injure your dog.
You must pick up and properly dispose of your
dog’s feces if your dog defecates anywhere off
of your property.

*snip* more at link

http://www.dehumane.org/site/DocServer/Wilmington_Pit_Bull_Registration.pdf?docID=421

Pit Bull owners must be at least 21 years old.
Pit Bulls must be licensed and registered. Registration is $30, good for the life of the dog, and must be registered at the Delaware Humane Association.
Pit Bull registration requires that the animals be neutered – Delaware SPCA offers FREE spay/neuter for Pit Bulls owned by City residents, call 998-2281 for an appointment (get directions).
Pit Bull registration requires that the owner owns his/her home or has a lease with express written consent allowing a Pit Bull to be housed.
Pit Bull breeding is prohibited – puppies are subject to seizure.
Pit Bulls must be on a leash not to exceed 6 feet in length and must be muzzled in City parks.

THERE ARE STIFF FINES FOR VIOLATIONS OF PIT BULL ORDINANCES
$500 – SINGLE VIOLATION
$1,000 – REPEAT OR CONTINUING VIOLATIONS

http://www.wilmingtonde.gov/residents/animals



Is this the type of thing you're talking about?

[baldguy]

86. This is a prime example of a failed BSL.

It doesn't define what breeds are considered to be a Pit Bull. There are no requirements for training either for the owner or the dog. And there's no reason given for any of those requirements that are listed shouldn't be applied to any dog.

Forget about the personality, temperament or training of the individual dog, the regulations are arbitrarily designed around how the dog looks.

[one_voice]

94. The SPCA is full of Pit Bulls...

more than half are because of the regulations not being followed. It's so sad to walk in there. Rows and rows of pits. My daughter rescued one, two years ago this month, he'd been there like 17 months or something ridiculous like that.

Vegas is what she named him for two reasons, it's her favorite city and she says she hit the jackpot with him. He's the sweetest dog. Great temperament, very laid back, great with kids. I love him to death.

She also rescued a female from another place, she's a great dog too. Her name is Denim, she's a blue brindle. She's a sweet thing. Nothing makes her happier than to be able to play with other dogs and kids.

She doesn't live within the city limits so she doesn't have to follow all those 'rules'. She has worked with them and made sure they were socialized with other dogs, first with my dogs (Boxers), then my moms dogs (Chihuahuas). She's had them around people, first with a muzzle until she knew how they'd act, they were rescues, then without.

I've always agreed with you, it's the owners, not the dogs.

That's not to say that some that have been rescued out of bad situations require extra vigilance when around other dogs and people and professional help.

[truebluegreen]

103. +1000

[Lizzie Poppet]

84. Agreed. Pit bulls should never have guns.

[Jenoch]

90. I would sooner trust a neighbor with a gun

than I would a neighbor with a pit bull.

[arely staircase]

91. I am for all those things as well as

cruise control and self control.

[jazzimov]

98. I'm for FACTS.

The facts indicate a need for gun control. The facts indicate that BSL is is counter-productive. I'm not against certain regulations on ALL dogs, but not for specific breeds.

[LostOne4Ever]

100. Im for bad analogy control

so there

Oh and p.s. Im for Conservative Breeding control too.

[Arcanetrance]

107. I agree on gun control disagree on pit bull control

I think we need pet owner control put restrictions on who may own a pet. Because there are plenty of people who have animals of all varieties I mean I've been bit and bad by Jack Russells and chihuahuas so maybe better control of who may have animals is better it'll keep more animals from being abused and keep them out of hands of those who would make them violent

[derby378]

109. My brother has a pit bull - such a sweet little girl

Her name is Chloe, and she is nothing but gentle with the whole family, including my little nephew.

My sister-in-law now has a pit bull, too. Those teeth look mighty sharp, but one look at me, and that dog decided I was her new best friend. Gave me lots of cuddles and kisses.

Do I even have to start on the gun thing? I'm a little tired right now.

[zappaman]

112. I miss UNREC. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

116. I think many problems around guns and hyper-aggresive dogs can be traced back to similar stuff

fear, paranoia, and relying on these artificialities for a false sense of security.

My answer as far as dogs (or really, any pets) goes, hold the owner criminally responsible for the pet's behavior. Every time, all the time. If the dog mauls someone, the owner is guilty of assault. If the dog kills someone, it's murder.

That way you're not singling out a particular breed, or anything, and if snookums really wouldn't hurt a flea there's no problem.

I've seen far too many nasty horrible dog attack stories.

[pipoman]

120. Great thread!

gun control + pit bulls = awesome thread..

(that said, I am a bit tired of the guns being out of one of the gungeons)