Boston bombing reveals a new American maturity toward insecurity

[sheshe2]

In ways both big and small, both fleeting and transformational, this time simply felt different.On the lawn of the First Baptist Church in the Jamaica Plain neighborhood of Boston, Eve Nagler stood at a prayer vigil two days after terrorists attempted to shred the joy of Boston's biggest day with nails and BB's and bits of hurtling metal.

SNIP:

There was a calm, not only in the streets but in raw and wounded hearts.

SNIP:

The post-9/11 'new normal' has evolved: The tactical and emotional responses to the Boston Marathon bombings show what experts call a national maturity toward terrorism that echoes longer experience with such crises in England, Spain, Russia, Japan, and Israel.

SNIP:

What has changed since 9/11 is America itself. The Boston Marathon bombings were tragic, but they hit a city and a nation that were prepared for them, both tactically and emotionally. The calls for retribution, to apportion blame, or to lash back at Islam have all been notably muted. Even when 1 million residents were told to stay put and hunker down for 10 hours after a blazing police shootout with the suspected bombers that left one of them dead and the other on the loose, there was no panic or resentment, only resolve.

In that way, Boston has hinted at a new American maturity, say experts. Because of it, the "new normal" post-Boston might not look too different from what came before – a more robust police presence at big events, more surveillance cameras on urban streets perhaps. But like other cities worldwide that have faced the threat of bombings for decades – from London to Madrid to Jerusalem – Boston has made the more profound step of showing that a community's greatest defense against terrorism is in the determination of its people.

"Boston is showing you can take a blow like this, and you can keep going," says Stephen Flynn, codirector of the George J. Kostas Research Institute for Homeland Security at Northeastern University in Boston.


Mourners of the victims of the Boston Marathon bombings held a candlelight vigil at the Boston Public Garden April 15.

Ann Hermes/Staff



MORE:
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/2013/0428/Boston-bombing-reveals-a-new-American-maturity-toward-insecurity

[BeyondGeography]

1. It also helped mightily to have a rational adult in the WH

[Yavin4]

14. EXACTLY!!!!!

No exploitation of raw emotions in order to build a phony case for war.

[Cha]

40. It has helped Immensely, BeyondGeography..

thank you for that.

[sheshe2]

43. It did, BeyondGeography!

[kelliekat44]

47. If only the samed "maturity" can be used regarding Syria!

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE94409Z20130505?irpc=932

In view of this latest report we need to put some pressure on Congress to avoid a terrile mistake in the ME. Time to stand up to Bibi and the Israeli war hawks.

[leveymg]

2. Lock down an entire city for one teenager with pipebombs? That's maturity?

What self-congratulatory Bullshit. Orwellian denial of the obvious fact that the New Normal is a Police State. That so many jump to its defense is another sign that Big Brother is now widely internalized.

[marions ghost]

3. What if there were more bombers?

They couldn't afford any more deaths.

We already live in a police state. We are already surveilled. I don't know that this is a new indicator of that.

[leveymg]

4. They knew exactly who they were looking for. The lockdown didn't happen until that was known.

I can understand cordoning off a neighborhood, but locking down the entire city for a single teenager is overkill.

[marions ghost]

21. Maybe overkill, yes

but I still don't think it indicates a police state more than anything else.

We are very controlled. Seems to me the way of the future. Unless there are new ideas?

[leveymg]

49. Every major terrorist incident of the past decade has been blowback. Here's the new idea: end the

Cold War and stop using Jihadis to settle old scores with the Russians and their unfortunate allies.

[marions ghost]

55. If our ideas counted

we could be a leader of good things in the world, instead of a misguided greed fueled bully.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. I wish those were pipe bombs.

Oy

[leveymg]

8. That's essentially what pressure cooker bombs are.

Obviously, the situation would be very different if the suspects had some sort of real WMDs. G-d forbid.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. They are more powerful

And what pd did is what it does regularly...mind you, in the wrong side of tracts.

You want o talk about that...sure...but what they did...happens once a day per shift in my town, albeit much smaller areas...blocks best case.

This is how the PD reacts to dangerous suspects. So you want to talk of exigent searches, sure...protected by law by the way according to SCOTUS.

We covered a local search for a kidnapped baby...guess what? Shelter in place and all that was done...before Boston.

All I can do s this.

[leveymg]

10. I have no problem with locking down Watertown for a few hours. I do have a problem with an entire

city being placed under what was, in effect, martial law for a day to hunt for one known suspect armed with small explosives. This was bad public policy because it gives would-be terrorists more of an impact than they would otherwise have over society. It invites copycats who now know how little it takes and just want to shut things down.

The situation would be objectively different if there was a realistic threat of WMD, requiring people to shelter in place. Even then, as in wartime, it makes no sense to shut down an area bigger than that immediately under threat.

The Boston lock down was not necessary for public safety and was instead more of political reaction to mass psychology and a reflection of the authoritarian mindset of law enforcement. It shows how we overreact and invites others to disrupt society in similar ways.

This article is pure "black-white," its seems to completely deny the obvious and puts a happy face on it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. It wasn't martial law

People were advised to stay indoors. If you wanted to go out, none was going to take you to jail, or worst disapear you.

That is what happens in martial law.

The place was so locked down that some coffee shops staid open, so did convenience stores...and civilians, not just press, were on the other side ofthe tape watching...and no cop had the authority to tell them...go home, or worst arrest them for violating martial law and curfew...neither was issued.

Words have meaning and this was not martial law.

The reason...is that unlike LA or San Diego, that are that spread out, Boston is still a compact urban area.

But serious, words have meanings...learn them.

[leveymg]

12. I'm sorry Nadin. When you have an entire city with armed troops in the street and people told to

stay inside -- and practically everyone did -- that's martial law, or a state of emergency, or whatever you want to call it.

This wasn't a blizzard. It was a demonstration of what an American city looks like under martial law. It looked like a ghost town, or scenes from "On the Beach" that used stock footage of SF taken during Civil Defense exercises in the 1950s when World War Three was given a trial run.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. You might want to continue use the wrong term, that does not mean you're correct

And I sincerely hope you never ever learn the difference. I truly do.

There are some here who know it, because they have lived it. And I sincerely hope you never have to learn the difference.

FYI, in martial law, cops don't buy milk at the open convenience store. Mostly those stores are closed.

?itok=_aoIE7Xc

[leveymg]

17. States of seige or exception (suspension of constitutional rights) can go on for years. As in Chile

or Argentina. In real police states, as under Pinochet's Junta, corner stores stay open because they are ordered to do so. It becomes burdensome to have policemen delivering milk, even if it makes for great public relations. Most people go to work in the morning in police states, if their work is considered necessary to the state and society, and they have passed the required loyalty tests and aren't picked up after an informant drops a dime or surveillance identifies them with the "wrong people" saying the "wrong things."

After a while, it all seems very "normal." The tanks roll away out of sight, and most of the troops go back to barracks. Coworkers and neighbors who are no longer around aren't spoken about, except in hushed voices. I know the difference, Nadin. We aren't all the way there, yet, but are learning to get accustomed to some of the trappings here at the center of the Empire.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Whatever

You really don't know the difference. Have a nice day.

[leveymg]

19. Rude much?

It's not like we've never had a conversation. I've defended you when you were targeted by some of the roving packs of RW "debunkers" and trollish "truth squads." More than once.

So, why the brusque attitude? What essential truth about dictatorships do you think I'm missing?

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Nobody was detained in Boston, let alone disappeared

Nor was it mandatory...

NPR had a story of a store that staid open, not Dunkin Donuts...they decided to close around three, they ad customers. That,I will repeat, does not happen in a state of emergency, let alone martial law.

Here, more, from a legal expert.

The “shelter in place” request is legally different from a state of emergency, which Patrick declared earlier this year as winter storm Nemo descended on the Bay State. Patrick imposed a travel ban, threatening a penalty of up to a year in prison and a large fine if people were found on the roads. Massachusetts suffered very few fatalities during the storm.

Read more: http://nation.time.com/2013/04/19/was-boston-actually-on-lockdown/#ixzz2SSHrDTQ9

There were no penalties for violating this shelter in place order...and once again, it was voluntary.

I am not being rude...

Just gobsmacked.

You want to discuss the legality of exigent circumstance searches? IMO it is abused...often, out of sight of media though...but that is another thread.

Have a good day, really.

[sheshe2]

25. Thank you Nadin.

You tried.

Martial Law vs Shelter in Place. Some will never understand the difference.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. You welcome

As an emergency worker I have been around where shelter in place orders were issued. They were well within my pay grade to recommend to civilians who were in charge. And also were curfews were issued, that was military pay grade.

[sheshe2]

22. Leveeymg, a question, were you here?

Those were not pipe bombs, they were called IED's. The receiving hospitals said they had never seen so much carnage.

Have you seen the pictures of the wounded and dead lying in the streets of Boston. Did you happen to see the news photos of a man, with two limbs blown off, being rushed along the street in a wheel chair. There were more with double limbs amputated. Little Martin that died, his little sister lost a leg. Her mother is hospitalized with brain trauma.There are others, so many more that lost limbs.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022784072

See the pictures in Post#9 and follow the link to see how veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan rushed to support Boston. I thank them for that.

[leveymg]

48. I went to school in Boston, lived 1/2 mile from Copley, ran 2 marathons.

Yes, I saw the pictures, love the city and its people. But, that's all the more reason to grieve for the surrender to fear and acceptance of a sort of police state that is becoming permanent in America.

[sheshe2]

52. So you were only here a few years for school?

Or a life long born and raised in Mass.

And why will you not accept the true definition of a Shelter in Place request, voluntary I might add, to a police state.

You say you saw the pictures from those "pipe bombs" as you term them. You say we surrendered to our fear, then you surely missed a lot of pictures and videos. The people turning and running back to the Blasts to help save lives! I am not referring to the first responders, the professionals. I am talking about everyday people that rushed to help save lives.

You do not have a clue, leveymg. I am sorry but you do not.

You say

that's all the more reason to grieve for the surrender to fear and acceptance of a sort of police state that is becoming permanent in America.

I say that is incorrect. I say let the people of Boston grieve for our dead and wounded. Something many of you are not willing to let us do. There has not been one post on Boston's Sorrow that has not been jumped upon and the people of Boston being called vile names. Not one.

IMHO Boston is not the one that surrendered to fear and acceptance, you have.

[leveymg]

53. What is this, a contest of true connectedness to the Back Bay?

Last edited Mon May 6, 2013, 08:30 AM - Edit history (2)

Please don't sink to such petty terms of debate. It's like saying that the only true Americans arrived on the Mayflower at Plymouth in 1620.

Grieve for the dead and wounded, but grieve for our loss of liberties, all the more. That loss is real, too, and surveillance has not protected us and nor will states of emergency. If we accept any reduction in traditional rights to be free of unnecessary interference with our daily lives and privacy by the police, then what is the point of pretending to still be a free people?

"Those who will give up freedom for safety deserve neither." - A real Bostonian. He'd understand what I'm saying.

[sheshe2]

54. Your belief that we lost liberties and that loss is real !

Grieve for the dead and wounded, but grieve for our loss of liberties, all the more. That loss is real, and surveillance has not protected us and nor will states of emergency.

Dead and wounded is not real, your words not mine.

Bye

[Warpy]

28. It wasn't an entire city

it was a section of one town, Watertown. Things went on as usual in Boston, except there was crime scene tape blocking off much of Boylston St. People still rode the subways to work, drank lattes at lunch, and went to bars on the way home.

Boston's an old city that has seen its share of violence.

ETA: "Shelter in place" is a far cry from martial law. In Shelter in Place, you're asked not to leave your homes. If you are on the street, you are questioned as to why you're there and then escorted home.

In martial law, you are shot.

Any questions?

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. For six hours they did

Close down public transit though.

The reason was simple, to prevent our suspect from leaving

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/19/17822687-boston-transit-shut-down-nearly-1-million-sheltering-in-place-amid-terror-hunt?lite

[virgogal]

51. Well I don't live in Watertown and we were told to stay in. It involved the city and

several surrounding towns.

[leftynyc]

59. You were advised to stay indoors

Nobody would have arrested you if you went out...that's why calling it martial law is lying.

[virgogal]

60. I agree.

[bhikkhu]

33. The alternative being pretending there's nothing to worry about

and no need to do anything special to catch the guys.

Hindsight is always good to have, but in retrospect the whole thing wrapped up very well. What kind of an alternative ending did you have in mind?

[Logical]

58. The lockdown was a joke! And a bad example to the next nut! n-t

[galileoreloaded]

5. yeesh. a little try hard, ya know? n/t

[sheshe2]

23. Meaning?

[Cha]

36. Most people are trying hard to deal with reality.. others are merely

trying.

[Yo_Mama]

7. This is just weird

This attack killed three, not 3,000.

It wasn't the result of some large conspiracy, but of a relatively garden variety nutcase-I-hate-the-world type thing.

The US didn't react much differently to this incident than it did to the Eric Rudolph bombing of the Olympics, and that's because they were similar deals.

In reality, the US hasn't changed its stance at all on the more organized type of Islamic terrorism under Obama. If anything, it's gotten more intense - we are out there bombing in more countries now.

[alarimer]

16. Exactly

This was criminal behavior, not some vast terrorist conspiracy. And we are not helping ourselves by bombing the crap out of every little nation. That will only breed more such incidents.

This bears a great deal of similarity to Eric Rudolph and the like. (Except he was aided and abetted by his fellow travelers in the conservative movement).

I do disagree with the passivity with which most Americans receive police "orders" or what they perceive to be orders. Having more eyes in the streets would have led to his capture sooner, in my opinion. I would hope people would be less likely to accept authoritarian bullshit from the police, but it appears not.

[Squinch]

27. THIS!!!!

Boston had a teriffic response to a couple of nutjobs wreaking some horrible havoc.

It is, however, very different from an attack on multiple American cities with multiple thousands dead.

[morningfog]

57. Exactly, and creating a generation primed for blowback.

[AmericanLoudspeaker]

15. Those who did as law enforcement suggested and stayed inside were very mature...

Thankfully, no immature Ron Paul types caused trouble by refusing to obey simple requests.

[TampaAnimusVortex]

24. Yes, because obedience to authority has always worked out so well historically...

We don't even need to discuss abuses by nation states... (and there are many)

How about the Milgram Experiment? - feel free to Google that one if you don't know about it.

Oh, this was a lovely example of blind obedience and being a "good citizen".

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. You are seriously comparing a shelter in place

With the Milligan Experiment...serious



Now gobsmacked on steroids.

[sheshe2]

35. Gobsmacked on steroids!

sheshe

[sheshe2]

31. You are purposely trying to equate

Shelter in Place to Blind Obedience and strip search. Seriously?

[freshwest]

32. More like deliriously. Follow the cheerleader:

[sheshe2]

34. Great comeback,freshwest!

[freshwest]

39. Check my reply below for the full script! Be skeert! Very skeert!

[freshwest]

37. Let's just clear the air here (Warning, Glen Beck's Boston Nazis video):

Glenn Beck compares hunt for Boston Marathon bomber to Nazi Germany

April 29, 2013 By Michael Ross



You had to know he would get around to it sooner or later.

This morning on his radio program, Glenn Beck spent several minutes discussing a photo reportedly taken during the hunt for suspected Boston Marathon bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev which shows a police officer riding in a Humvee who appears to be aiming his rifle up at the person taking the photo through a window...



Beck then claimed to find the image particularly disturbing because it reminded him of something he learned when visiting Auschwitz, which was that the Nazis would murder anyone who dared to so much as look out the window when they came to haul away Jewish families living in a neighborhood.

Glenn Beck compares the manhunt for the Boston Marathon bomber to the Nazis. Credit: Rightwingwatch.org

"So there were no eyewitnesses to anything because they had trained them," said Beck. "You make that mistake one time and the entire neighborhood and the town realize when they say stay in the house, they mean stay in your house. When they say don't look out the window, don't approach a window, don't look at what's going on, you don't or they'll kill you..."

A lot more goodies at link:

http://www.examiner.com/article/glenn-beck-compares-hunt-for-boston-marathon-bomber-to-nazi-germany

How very original...

[sheshe2]

41. God save us from the glenn becks,

and the people who actually believe what he says!

[freshwest]

42. Those who were in Boston, sing a different tune:

Random Notes from the Police State by Will Pitt

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/15895-random-notes-from-the-police-state

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=61629

A good thread to peddle the Beck & Jones' brainsoap. That's the Koch Brothers brand...

[sheshe2]

50. True, thank freshwest!

[TampaAnimusVortex]

45. George Carlin is the first to tell you to distrust authority

Guess hes a loon too eh?

Tell me something... Exactly how far are you willing to go to protect public safety? So we see your willing to allow Door to door searches. Whats next? Door to door strip searches? Public strip searches? Cavity searches? Exactly where is your line in the sand?

[Cha]

38. "A Quiet Resolve".. Exactly, she.. and all the whinging in the

World from those who weren't there is not going to change that.

Boston Strong

[RobinA]

44. Maturity?

Is that what they call it these days?

Plus, comparing Boston to 9/11? That's a stretch and then some.

[Cha]

46. Kick for BostonStrong!

[Demo_Chris]

56. Maturity? I seriously cannot believe someone actually wrote that garbage. nt