Should Clothing Stores Be Required to Post

[MineralMan]

poster-sized photographs of the facilities where the clothing they sell are made? Now, I think that's a great idea. Let the customers in the clothing store see the people who made the clothing they're about to buy. Let them see their working conditions.

Maybe that should be extended to all products. Perhaps there should be such a photo required on all packaging and labels. For food products derived from animals, maybe the photo would be of the animals as they live, or of a slaughter house or packing plant.

And for the literalists, no, I don't believe any such thing can actually be required of stores. I just think it would be a good thing.

[MineralMan]

1. Here's an example of such a photo:

[Nye Bevan]

14. Am I supposed to look at that and think "OMG, that's horrible"

because as someone who has worked in places that look worse than that, I'm really not seeing it.

The problem with a photo is that it does not tell the whole story. What kind of hours do the employees work? What are they paid and what are their benefits? How often do they get breaks and how long are their breaks? And perhaps most importantly, how safe are their working conditions; does the building conform with safety and fire codes, are the fire escapes accessible, and so on?

[Ilsa]

23. Exactly. Are there surprise audits?

What is the minimum age to work there, and is it older than required by law of that country?

A picture may be worth a thousand words, but there are plenty of unknowns in a picture.

[fujiyama]

44. The problem is also that we don't know the context

of the life they would lead without such a seemingly awful opportunity. Would they starve without the meager wages? Would the lack of of these jobs send the women into the sex industry?

Those arguments are seemingly incredible cynical and are often posed by those interested in little more than further exploitation of the local populations.

But the reality is these people don't have the luxury to just find something else - and also because ultimately the issues that arise in places like Bangladesh are often due to rampant local corruption. The people of these places need to demand real regulations and they need to combat the corruption in their own daily lives. To an extent, it is also the fault of lazy and cheap Western corporations which outsource these tasks - often sub contracted another two or three levels.

[bettyellen]

16. I've been in dozens of american garment factories, and none was ever that clean.

i know that's not what you'd like to hear. But factories in the try state area were ridden with rats and the refuse appalling whenever I visited. I quickly learned two things: go to the bathroom before you visit, because you're not going to want to use theirs, and don;t put your bag down lest something crawl in.
There are much more dangerous and unlcean manufacturing jobs out there than the garment industry. Interesting that they don;t get press. But we Americans love our toys, I guess.

[pipi_k]

29. Haven't seen that many, but

I did work in the office of one local clothing factory back in the late 80s (has since gone out of business).

It was an old brick building on the outside, but had lots and lots of very dry wood inside. Three stories. Rickety fire escapes. Rather dirty and dingy looking, and quite depressing...even the offices.

So one day I decided to sit out on the steps in an area right next to the office area. The entire factory was surrounded by a fence, so this little area was pretty safe, and the exit door was often left open in hot weather.

The day after I did that, the door was locked (with a chain as I recall) from the inside. Can't have the office slaves enjoying their lunch hours...



It was a miserable place. The workers were not happy. Always walking around with frowns, snapping at each other...even the office workers, who didn't have it nearly as bad as the sewing ladies did up on the second floor. I didn't last more than a few months there.

[bettyellen]

30. yep, filthy, dangerous and miserable places. most of the sewers were immigrants with

phony papers and had no English. They used to stare at me, like get me out of here. Rats would appear out of the bins of clothing and the tubes holding rolled fabrics all the time. Manufacturing is not always an easy sector to work in. My company dumped the factory in Bangladesh three years ago, they have hired their own fire inspector for that area too.

[pipi_k]

34. One of the things that surprised me

was finding out that this factory manufactured a few different brand names of kids clothing...one of them popular and well-known. I never knew that happened.

I suppose maybe workers with different skill levels produced the different brands (i.e. more skilled workers made the higher quality stuff).

I always felt real sorry for the production workers who had to line up each day on their way out to have their bags checked. Humiliating. God forbid they should try to smuggle out a few scraps of cloth or some thread or something.

We office workers even had to jump through ridiculous hoops (like forms filled out in triplicate for approval) for a damned bottle of white-out or an eraser.

Miserable place.

[bettyellen]

36. My first job in that environment was a similar... I was having trouble sketching

and was so self conscious (not even graduated yet, but was designing) I somehow thought that the pencil points that kept breaking, and the ink blobs my markers spit out were might fault! Pencils lasted me only a few hours, I re-pointed them so often. Constantly touching up the ink blobs with new- but somehow gritty- liquid paper which would turn into cement in three days. I was just sooo green. It was six months before I found out- I stumbled upon an invoice for the office supplies, and saw they were buying seconds- damaged quality- pens and pencils!!! Other stuff too, LOL. Who knew anyone would do that?!?! Crazy people.

[HiPointDem]

32. the building that fell down and killed 600 people was likely pretty clean and bright too. it was

of recent construction.

[bettyellen]

37. I'm sure it was not well kept like that pic. I don't appreciate you making light of this.

My point was, his picture isn't going to arouse any guilt or awareness of anything to an American who's been near a American factory. Why would it?
We were discussing his idea of the picture- not the tragedy- but thanks very much for your confused and hostile response.

[HiPointDem]

39. you got all that from this?

"the building that fell down and killed 600 people was likely pretty clean and bright too. it was
of recent construction."

talk about reading into things.

the hostility is your own.

[bettyellen]

40. that was a nasty dose of sarcasm I "got" as did others here. A hint for you:

if you are so appalled at people discussing pics of a factory then don't wander into threads about pictures of a damned factory. It's pretty simple. Spare us your outrage.

[HiPointDem]

41. did you now? funny. there's no hint of my being 'appalled' & the only outrage appears to be

yours.

go take a chill pill.

[bettyellen]

42. just spare us your little lectures and look at the darned OP next time, okay?

it would be really helpful if you had a clue about the topic next time.

[HiPointDem]

43. I wasn't responding to the OP. and the OP was written in light of the event in bangladesh anyway.

didn't realize you'd been appointed topic monitor.

don't let it go to your head.

[bettyellen]

45. you were responding to posts critiquing pictures of factories.

in a thread about the value of showing people pictures of factories. C'mon!

[MADem]

26. That looks clean and bright from here.

I have worked in much danker, closer quarters. 18 hour days, too.

[HiPointDem]

33. the building that fell down and killed 600 people was likely pretty clean and bright too.

it was of recent construction.

[MADem]

35. Looks can be deceiving.

The place I worked at looked like shit, but it was safe except in wartime (or sinking...)!

[NYC_SKP]

2. I think schools should have a sustainability and humanity curriculum at every grade level.

These things matter far more than algebra in the end and, in fact, can simply be integrated into math and social studies history classes.

[MineralMan]

5. Another capital idea!

[MADem]

27. Schools don't even have Civics and gym classes any more, never mind music or art.

I think your idea is a good one, but we can't even do "basics" anymore in a lot of places. It's a shame.

[msanthrope]

28. It's why my kid is at a Friends school. nt

[MineralMan]

3. Here's a toy factory, and an electronics factory:

These would be good, too:

[bluedigger]

4. It really translates to the whole "buy local" concept.

When you know where the merchandise you buy comes from, or the people that make it, you have a better idea of the true cost.

[MineralMan]

7. And I'm not even posting sweatshop photos.

Recent ones are hard to come by. Cameras are not allowed in such places.

[bluedigger]

10. And ALEC is pushing legislation to prohibit it in American agribusiness as well.

Ignorance is bliss. Brave New World is coming fast.

[NYC_SKP]

9. See "150 mile Wardrobe"

http://www.treehugger.com/sustainable-fashion/fibershed-project-the-150-mile-wardrobe.html

Three years ago we covered The Hundred Mile Suit, where 92% of a man's outfit was created from materials and production sourced from a radius of 100 miles. The project's designer, Kelly Cobb, said at the time: "If we worked on it for a year and a half, I think we could have eliminated that 8 percent."

Now, the Fibershed Project is experimenting with the concept once more, and they seem to taken on board Kelly's hint, for they've widen their scope to fibres sourced from within 150 miles, and given the project a one year time-frame.

But why impose any such limitations? Because in 1965, 95% of the clothing in a typical American's closet was made in America, today it's less than 5%. Because the textile industry is reckoned to be the 5th largest contributor to CO2 emissions in the US. Because the production of an average T-shirt emits 40 times its own weight in carbon dioxide emissions. Rebecca Burgess, Paige Green and Heidi Iverson wanted to see if a bioregional approach to apparel could reduce such impacts.

More: http://www.treehugger.com/sustainable-fashion/fibershed-project-the-150-mile-wardrobe.html

[bluedigger]

15. That is interesting.

It seems like the figures for CO2 emissions and percentage of clothing made here are contradictory. Do you think they are including the cost of transport? Even so, that would indicate that clothing is a major consumer good (which I suppose it is) but still, it seems high. Not really trying to pick at the data, so much as understand it.

[NYC_SKP]

19. Carbon footprint of the textile industry

Textile manufacturing is a separate matter from apparel fabrication.
2% of the US workforce is engaged in textiles.
Remember, this includes lots of agriculture and lots and lots of synthetics (petroleum).

Carbon footprint of the textile industry
25 05 2009

We’re starting a series of blogs on the carbon footprint of textiles. Because it’s such a complex subject we’re breaking it into smaller portions, beginning with looking at the textile industry as a whole. In other words, why the fuss over textiles?

Fabrics, believe it or not, have a large carbon footprint. In other words, it takes a lot of energy to produce fabrics. According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, the U.S. textile industry is the 5th largest contributor to CO2 emissioins in the United States (after primary metals, nonmetallic mineral products, petroleum and chemicals). In the developing world, where the textile industry represents a larger percentage of GDP and mills are often antiquated, the CO2 emissions are greater.

In fact, today’s textile industry is one of the biggest sources of greenhouse gasses on Earth, due to the huge size and scope of the industry as well as the many processes and products that go into the making of textiles and finished textile products. (See Vivek Dev, “Carbon Footprint of Textiles”, April 3, 2009, http://www.domain-b.com/environment/20090403_carbon_footprint.html)

Based on estimated annual global textile production of 60 billion kilogrms (KG) 0f fabric, the estimated energy and water needed to produce that 60 billion KG of fabrics boggles the mind: 1,074 billion KWh of electricity (or 132 million metric tons of coal) and between 6 – 9 trillion liters of water.

http://oecotextiles.wordpress.com/category/carbon-footprint-2/page/2/

Also:

http://www.brighthub.com/environment/green-living/articles/73624.aspx

http://selectusa.commerce.gov/industry-snapshots/textiles-industry-united-states

~~~~~~

[brooklynite]

6. ...and here's one in New York...

...

"Buy American" only gets you so far

[MineralMan]

8. Yes. That's the idea. Here's where your clothing is made,

and by whom. I'd think it would give people pause. Or maybe not...

[Iggo]

17. By whom?

Brown people?

That should give someone pause?

[MineralMan]

18. Just post the photos and let people draw their own conclusions.

[Iggo]

21. Wow.

[pipi_k]

31. Here's a clue

(maybe)

The clothing company I worked at (posted somewhere above) was located in a heavily Hispanic area of a local city.

All the people running sewing machines were women.

At least 98% of them were Hispanic.

Many of them didn't have cars. They could walk to and from work, or take the bus. They were relatively uneducated (not their fault). And they were willing to work for the shitty wages that company paid.

So yeah. If it seems a lot of brown people are making our clothing, that's a pretty logical answer. Because factories go where they think they can get cheap labor.

Had that factory moved to another part of the city, the women working there might have been lily-white Irish Americans.

[MineralMan]

11. And here's who is NOT making your goods:

[Posteritatis]

12. I wouldn't trust them not to cherrypick the hell out of such photos. (nt)

[MineralMan]

13. Here's a turkey farm photo for the supermarket:

[Nye Bevan]

20. That could be effective. If the following photo of free range turkeys was also displayed,

more people might well be inclined to pay a little more for the latter. I know I would.

[Luminous Animal]

24. Free range heritage turkeys are the best.

[Igel]

22. And here's how it would work.

Company A, a large clothing brand, would contract with Company B. Company A would have to provide the posters.

Company B would hire subcontractors. It would provide the photos to Company A. B would possibly know the conditions at the individual plants, but the subcontractors might hire another layer of subcontractors.

The subcontractors making the clothing would have to provide the photos to company B. Or to the subcontractors hired by Company B.

Dress shirts may be made in one place. Or in a dozen. The casual shirts in a second place. Or an additional dozen. Etc. You may wind up with the clothing from a given brand made in 40 or 50 places--and a given style of shirt not consistently made in one place. This would mean papering the walls of the store with dozens of posters. How chic. How stylish. How agitpropish.

Just as now, the company with the brand may not know the factories where the shirts are made. So when it gets a photo, it may have no idea if that's the right factory or not. Or if that was a specially staged photo. Or a photo that's years old. So the agitpropish environment may be entirely (or mostly) fictional. Which would, oddly, be appropriate for agitprop. It's just that it wouldn't be *your* agitprop, but the subcontractors'.

[Heywood J]

25. You're thinking of photos like these ones?

http://www.globallabourrights.org/reports?id=0002

http://www.globallabourrights.org/reports?id=0448
http://www.globallabourrights.org/reports?id=0399

http://www.globallabourrights.org/reports?id=0041

Workers need an "Off Post" card to use the bathroom. There are two such passes for a production line of 40 to 50 people. Going to the toilet is discouraged.

[PD Turk]

38. more than that

They should have to post pics of where the workers live. Hell, if it were up to me there would be a pic of where and how the workers live on the packaging or at the display for all imported products sold in the US. It's easy not to care when we don't see it.....

OE: Maybe something like this