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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forumsuncle can't find a place to bury nephew
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/05/18070158-tsarnaev-uncle-arrives-in-mass-but-family-cant-find-a-place-to-bury-bombing-suspect?litei feel sorry for this man. why won't a cemetery take the body? it's just a body -- not going to hurt anyone.
madaboutharry
(42,034 posts)This shouldn't be that hard.
SummerSnow
(12,608 posts)DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)snip
Burial
The deceased is then taken to the cemetery for burial (al-dafin). While all members of the community attend the funeral prayers, only the men of the community accompany the body to the gravesite. It is preferred for a Muslim to be buried where he or she died, and not be transported to another location or country (which may cause delays or require embalming the body). If available, a cemetery (or section of one) set aside for Muslims is preferred. The deceased is laid in the grave (without a coffin if permitted by local law) on his or her right side, facing Mecca. At the gravesite, it is discouraged for people to erect tombstones, elaborate markers, or put flowers or other momentos. Rather, one should humbly remember Allah and His mercy, and pray for the deceased.
BainsBane
(57,760 posts)and not be embalmed. Obviously that's not possible now.
LeftofObama
(4,243 posts)take it to a cemetery, bury it, and forget it? Why do they have to make this big of a deal about it? I remember reading that Oswald's body is buried in a cemetery in Ft. Worth, TX, but the workers are discouraged from telling people the location. They can't do the same with this guy?
GentryDixon
(3,149 posts)leftyladyfrommo
(20,006 posts)caused by people coming in who hate this guy's guts.
If people come to spit on his grave it could get ugly and cemetaries really don't want that sort of thing happening.
dballance
(5,756 posts)I think you're right. Cemeteries don't want people trespassing and causing damage. Not to mention some bright assholes might go so far as to dig up the body to desecrate it publicly.
LeftInTX
(34,315 posts)I don't know where the closest Muslim cemetery would be? I do kinda think they wanted to bury him in Mass.
I don't know if they requested an unmarked grave or if the cemeteries wouldn't want him in an unmarked grave.
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)but they don't want to take the body.
http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/2013/05/04/tamerlan-tsarnaev-body-awaits-burial-worcester-funeral-home-some-protest/NniJNuYhAirQuh8u2YojoN/story.html
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)ivy meeropol -- granddaughter of julius and ethel rosenberg had a hard time find where the bodies of her grandparents were buried.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)nt
JI7
(93,623 posts)DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)JI7
(93,623 posts)DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Sheesh. The guy's still causing trouble after he's deceased.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And technically not allowed under canon law either...it has all to do with the end of days.
And this is not about Tameran any longer, but a bunch of idiots who have given a decomposing body way too much power over them.
And I do this...
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Not just Muslims forbid cremation, but Christians too.
ad infinitum
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)"In other cases, columbaria are built into church structures. One example is the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels (Los Angeles, California), which houses a number of columbarium niches in the mausoleum built into the lower levels of the Cathedral. The construction of columbaria within churches is particularly widespread in the Czechoslovak Hussite Church. An example can be seen at the Church of St Nicolas in Old Town Square (Prague). In the Roman Catholic Church, although traditional burial is still preferred, cremation is permitted provided that the cremated remains are buried or entombed. As a result, columbaria can be found within some Catholic cemeteries."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbarium
The point, it would seem, would be that there is a final resting place so even if these guys were some sort of Catholic or Episcopal terrorists they'd still have to find a place but the cremation itself is permissible.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)The orthodox ones insist that you cannot do any organ donations, the far extreme even blood. And burning the body...you nuts? The more liberal, sure whatever.
We used to deal with this regularly, why I became too knowing of this. Hell, the order that did a lot of the nursing, Carmelites, had to be convinced that removing corneas (at the trauma unit minutes preferably after death) was a good thing.
As to other branches of Christianity, again depends on how conservative they are.
It's the same way with Judaism. I am an organ donor, which truly horrified my dad.
I am almost sure that Islam, as it joins the 21st century, will go through the same transformation. The internal conflict over less esoteric subjects is pretty much there already.
I also would like to know the conflict between the uncle and the parents. I am sure it's there.
I am willing to bet that a small group of American and European Muslims are cremating bodies, but somehow I don't think the Tsarnaev's are that progressive. And partly burying the body is actually about us showing to be far less vindictive to a hunk of flesh that is already rotting... You can't fight nature...
Of course, the US Airforce (you will have that problem with civilian airlines) could just fly the body to Moscow, with the Uncle's blessing, and let the FSB do the body delivery to the parents...this is not likely.
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)converted to judaism about 24 years ago. she's leaving her body to science. i think she made that decision before conversion, but recently told me that's what she wants and jeffR and her kids know it.
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)law has changed. she has it in her will that she is to be cremated. at one time catholics were not allowed to be cremated either, but that changed many years ago.
i'm not familiar with the end of days. is that when the soul and body are supposedly reunited?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Post 45
It really depends on what branch
morningfog
(18,115 posts)near them somehow will effect them. His religion is not what is making this current mess.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)and there might be protests. I can understand why no cemetery, so far, has jumped onto his bandwagon as a savior.
Doesnt his religion dictate that he be buried in a muslim cemetery? Maybe a muslim cemetary could take him.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Is odd, locally we even have a Shinto one at one of the local cemeteries. The US does not have, mostly, exclusive cemeteries...they exist, but far from the rule.
Nah, this is a bunch of living idiots surrendering common sense and decency to a rotting hunk of flesh. Funerals are not for the dead, but the living.
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)her cremated (her wish). my husband passed last year and he was cremated too.
my will stipulates that i'm to be cremated.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)nt
dballance
(5,756 posts)First of all, "that religion" didn't change their thousand-year old traditions to make trouble when it came time to bury Tsarnov. You're sympathy for his uncle, who is trying to do the best he can is touching. Just in case you don't get it, that's sarcasm.
mercuryblues
(16,425 posts)Along with a video of what he did.
Mariana
(15,626 posts)whose job is to keep up that particular cemetery plot. You'd be amazed at what nasty things people will do to a gravesite, if they hated the person who's buried there (or the relatives who are still living). They don't necessarily stop at defacing the headstone, if there is one. Sometimes they urinate, or defecate, or masturbate on the grave. Would you want to deal with that?
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)vandalized by anti-semites.
Mariana
(15,626 posts)The kind of jackass that would go out to deface this particular person's gravesite would likely be the type of person who thinks all Muslims are terrorists. If he is buried anywhere near other Muslims, their graves will be targets, too.
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)a practising catholic was very upset when gangster lucky luciano was buried in St. john's cemetery. she thought it was appalling that he be buried in a catholic cemetery where her grandparents were buried.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)REP
(21,691 posts)It's not the dead guy anyone is worried about; it's the living family, who do not wish to violate the laws of their religion. I have no ill-will toward his family and understand that they probably despise what their nephew did, but he is still the son of their brother.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)The place where they bury prisoners whose families don't claim them. There are also places where they bury homeless and paupers that no one knows.
Raine
(31,179 posts)he hated so much that he gave his life trying to destroy it.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)I think he was trying to kill people and cause mayhem. But destroy the county?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Nature will recycle that body like all others...jaysus!!!
Raine1967
(11,676 posts)They can do this for the dead bomber.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And burial at sea for Muslims was heavily disputed by some imams.
Raine1967
(11,676 posts)My point was that he could be buried at sea.
This is a good link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/21/osama-bin-laden-death_n_2172275.html
"Traditional procedures for Islamic burial was followed," the May 2 email from Rear Adm. Charles Gaouette reads. "The deceased's body was washed (ablution) then placed in a white sheet. The body was placed in a weighted bag. A military officer read prepared religious remarks, which were translated into Arabic by a native speaker. After the words were complete, the body was placed on a prepared flat board, tipped up, whereupon the deceased's body slid into the sea."
In death, he was respected. (after he was elevated... religiously and politically) *
*EDITING TO CLARIFY*
I meant to say AFTER his death, his religion and the disposal of his body was respected.
*end of edit*
I'm pretty sure they can figure out something for this bomber.
and at a certain point, I'm not so concerned about some imams. A body needs to be ridden. It's a dead human. There are options.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Problem solved?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And trying to bury a now dead body, who has power over the living he never had in life.
Bury him already and get it over with. I am amazed by some of the things posted here. The widow surrendered all legal responsibility to the uncle...to send the body abroad he'd have to pay for that, for starters.
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)saying that i felt sorry for the uncle. i saw the man on tv. he said (paraphrase) "i'm all alone with this".
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)The global implications either.
Muslims might or might not approve of what he did, but this makes us look like jack asses best case, barbarians most likely.
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)Raine1967
(11,676 posts)how/when did the uncle become become the legal guardian? Was it really as simple as the widow surrendering legal responsibility?
I ask simply because that just doesn't seem like it could be allowed under marriage laws.
This story just get stranger and stranger.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Surrendering it in writing to the uncle.
I suspect that was her parents trying to distance her from the whole mess.
treestar
(82,383 posts)seems the only solution here.