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uncle can't find a place to bury nephew (Original Post) DesertFlower May 2013 OP
They found a place to bury Lee Harvey Oswald. madaboutharry May 2013 #1
and Timothy McVeigh..even though he was cremated. SummerSnow May 2013 #2
just found this: DesertFlower May 2013 #3
like Jews they are supposed to be buried within 24 hours BainsBane May 2013 #37
Why can't they just sneak the body out in the middle of the night, LeftofObama May 2013 #4
Oswald is buried in Fort Worth. GentryDixon May 2013 #7
I bet the cemetaries are afraid of property damage leftyladyfrommo May 2013 #5
That Would Be My Bet Too. dballance May 2013 #31
I hope he can find someplace LeftInTX May 2013 #6
they have cemetaries with areas for muslims DesertFlower May 2013 #9
Bury him at sea Travis_0004 May 2013 #8
in the documentary "heir to an execution" DesertFlower May 2013 #10
sounds like a personal problem arely staircase May 2013 #11
why do they need to bury him ? JI7 May 2013 #12
islamic law. DesertFlower May 2013 #13
cremation is not an option ? JI7 May 2013 #14
not allowed under islamic law. DesertFlower May 2013 #17
Of course not. Anything that would resolve the situation is not allowed by that religion. Honeycombe8 May 2013 #21
Cremation is not allowed under Jewish Law nadinbrzezinski May 2013 #23
Is he Jewish? nt Honeycombe8 May 2013 #26
Read the post I am answering to nadinbrzezinski May 2013 #30
catholics - you can cremate but still have to entombed somehow, so i guess the problem would remain arely staircase May 2013 #40
It depends what branch of the Catholic Church you talk to nadinbrzezinski May 2013 #45
my sister NanceGreggs DesertFlower May 2013 #51
according to my friend jewish DesertFlower May 2013 #42
Yeah see above nadinbrzezinski May 2013 #46
He's only causing trouble now because people think his physical body rotting morningfog May 2013 #25
His religion is making somewhat of a situation. The gravesight will be vandalized repeatedly, Honeycombe8 May 2013 #28
You do know that cemeteries have Jewish sections, Muslims sections, Hindu, which nadinbrzezinski May 2013 #32
i agree. my mom passed in '08 and i had DesertFlower May 2013 #44
It, I'm guessing, but feel pretty sure it is the vandalism, gawker factor arely staircase May 2013 #41
Well Aren't You the Enlightened, Reasonable One? dballance May 2013 #33
send him to his parents. mercuryblues May 2013 #15
I wouldn't want to be the caretaker Mariana May 2013 #16
jewish cemeteries have been DesertFlower May 2013 #19
Exactly. Mariana May 2013 #54
i remember when i was a kid my mom -- DesertFlower May 2013 #18
Why not cremate him? No problem there. Then spread the ashes. nt Honeycombe8 May 2013 #20
His uncles do not wish to violate the laws of their religion REP May 2013 #53
Throw him off a boat, like OBL. Or bury him in unmarked grave at some prison. Honeycombe8 May 2013 #22
He should be buried in his homeland, why have him spend eternity in the soil of a country Raine May 2013 #24
Do you really thin khe was trying to destroy it? morningfog May 2013 #27
Eternity? He's decomposing nadinbrzezinski May 2013 #36
OBL was given a burial at sea. That was appropriate to his religion. Raine1967 May 2013 #29
It's not your choice but the uncle nadinbrzezinski May 2013 #34
Of course it isn't my choice. I'd never want that choice. Raine1967 May 2013 #43
Wht don't the ship his body back to Chechnya? Cali_Democrat May 2013 #35
Because his uncle is the legal guardian nadinbrzezinski May 2013 #39
thank you. i started this thread DesertFlower May 2013 #47
And Americans might not understand nadinbrzezinski May 2013 #48
i agree. nt DesertFlower May 2013 #52
nadin, maybe you can help me out with this query: Raine1967 May 2013 #49
Yes, it was as simple as her nadinbrzezinski May 2013 #50
Like bin Laden, the burial at sea treestar May 2013 #38

DesertFlower

(11,649 posts)
3. just found this:
Sun May 5, 2013, 06:42 PM
May 2013
http://islam.about.com/cs/elderly/a/funerals.htm

snip

Burial

The deceased is then taken to the cemetery for burial (al-dafin). While all members of the community attend the funeral prayers, only the men of the community accompany the body to the gravesite. It is preferred for a Muslim to be buried where he or she died, and not be transported to another location or country (which may cause delays or require embalming the body). If available, a cemetery (or section of one) set aside for Muslims is preferred. The deceased is laid in the grave (without a coffin if permitted by local law) on his or her right side, facing Mecca. At the gravesite, it is discouraged for people to erect tombstones, elaborate markers, or put flowers or other momentos. Rather, one should humbly remember Allah and His mercy, and pray for the deceased.

BainsBane

(57,760 posts)
37. like Jews they are supposed to be buried within 24 hours
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:19 PM
May 2013

and not be embalmed. Obviously that's not possible now.

LeftofObama

(4,243 posts)
4. Why can't they just sneak the body out in the middle of the night,
Sun May 5, 2013, 07:01 PM
May 2013

take it to a cemetery, bury it, and forget it? Why do they have to make this big of a deal about it? I remember reading that Oswald's body is buried in a cemetery in Ft. Worth, TX, but the workers are discouraged from telling people the location. They can't do the same with this guy?

leftyladyfrommo

(20,006 posts)
5. I bet the cemetaries are afraid of property damage
Sun May 5, 2013, 07:01 PM
May 2013

caused by people coming in who hate this guy's guts.

If people come to spit on his grave it could get ugly and cemetaries really don't want that sort of thing happening.

 

dballance

(5,756 posts)
31. That Would Be My Bet Too.
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:11 PM
May 2013

I think you're right. Cemeteries don't want people trespassing and causing damage. Not to mention some bright assholes might go so far as to dig up the body to desecrate it publicly.

LeftInTX

(34,315 posts)
6. I hope he can find someplace
Sun May 5, 2013, 07:05 PM
May 2013

I don't know where the closest Muslim cemetery would be? I do kinda think they wanted to bury him in Mass.

I don't know if they requested an unmarked grave or if the cemeteries wouldn't want him in an unmarked grave.

DesertFlower

(11,649 posts)
10. in the documentary "heir to an execution"
Sun May 5, 2013, 08:14 PM
May 2013

ivy meeropol -- granddaughter of julius and ethel rosenberg had a hard time find where the bodies of her grandparents were buried.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
21. Of course not. Anything that would resolve the situation is not allowed by that religion.
Sun May 5, 2013, 08:59 PM
May 2013

Sheesh. The guy's still causing trouble after he's deceased.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
23. Cremation is not allowed under Jewish Law
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:04 PM
May 2013

And technically not allowed under canon law either...it has all to do with the end of days.

And this is not about Tameran any longer, but a bunch of idiots who have given a decomposing body way too much power over them.

And I do this...

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
30. Read the post I am answering to
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:11 PM
May 2013

Not just Muslims forbid cremation, but Christians too.

ad infinitum

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
40. catholics - you can cremate but still have to entombed somehow, so i guess the problem would remain
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:27 PM
May 2013

"In other cases, columbaria are built into church structures. One example is the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels (Los Angeles, California), which houses a number of columbarium niches in the mausoleum built into the lower levels of the Cathedral. The construction of columbaria within churches is particularly widespread in the Czechoslovak Hussite Church. An example can be seen at the Church of St Nicolas in Old Town Square (Prague). In the Roman Catholic Church, although traditional burial is still preferred, cremation is permitted provided that the cremated remains are buried or entombed. As a result, columbaria can be found within some Catholic cemeteries."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbarium

The point, it would seem, would be that there is a final resting place so even if these guys were some sort of Catholic or Episcopal terrorists they'd still have to find a place but the cremation itself is permissible.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
45. It depends what branch of the Catholic Church you talk to
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:38 PM
May 2013

The orthodox ones insist that you cannot do any organ donations, the far extreme even blood. And burning the body...you nuts? The more liberal, sure whatever.

We used to deal with this regularly, why I became too knowing of this. Hell, the order that did a lot of the nursing, Carmelites, had to be convinced that removing corneas (at the trauma unit minutes preferably after death) was a good thing.

As to other branches of Christianity, again depends on how conservative they are.

It's the same way with Judaism. I am an organ donor, which truly horrified my dad.

I am almost sure that Islam, as it joins the 21st century, will go through the same transformation. The internal conflict over less esoteric subjects is pretty much there already.

I also would like to know the conflict between the uncle and the parents. I am sure it's there.

I am willing to bet that a small group of American and European Muslims are cremating bodies, but somehow I don't think the Tsarnaev's are that progressive. And partly burying the body is actually about us showing to be far less vindictive to a hunk of flesh that is already rotting... You can't fight nature...

Of course, the US Airforce (you will have that problem with civilian airlines) could just fly the body to Moscow, with the Uncle's blessing, and let the FSB do the body delivery to the parents...this is not likely.

DesertFlower

(11,649 posts)
51. my sister NanceGreggs
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:50 PM
May 2013

converted to judaism about 24 years ago. she's leaving her body to science. i think she made that decision before conversion, but recently told me that's what she wants and jeffR and her kids know it.

DesertFlower

(11,649 posts)
42. according to my friend jewish
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:30 PM
May 2013

law has changed. she has it in her will that she is to be cremated. at one time catholics were not allowed to be cremated either, but that changed many years ago.

i'm not familiar with the end of days. is that when the soul and body are supposedly reunited?

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
25. He's only causing trouble now because people think his physical body rotting
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:07 PM
May 2013

near them somehow will effect them. His religion is not what is making this current mess.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
28. His religion is making somewhat of a situation. The gravesight will be vandalized repeatedly,
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:10 PM
May 2013

and there might be protests. I can understand why no cemetery, so far, has jumped onto his bandwagon as a savior.

Doesnt his religion dictate that he be buried in a muslim cemetery? Maybe a muslim cemetary could take him.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
32. You do know that cemeteries have Jewish sections, Muslims sections, Hindu, which
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:14 PM
May 2013

Is odd, locally we even have a Shinto one at one of the local cemeteries. The US does not have, mostly, exclusive cemeteries...they exist, but far from the rule.

Nah, this is a bunch of living idiots surrendering common sense and decency to a rotting hunk of flesh. Funerals are not for the dead, but the living.

DesertFlower

(11,649 posts)
44. i agree. my mom passed in '08 and i had
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:33 PM
May 2013

her cremated (her wish). my husband passed last year and he was cremated too.

my will stipulates that i'm to be cremated.

 

dballance

(5,756 posts)
33. Well Aren't You the Enlightened, Reasonable One?
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:14 PM
May 2013

First of all, "that religion" didn't change their thousand-year old traditions to make trouble when it came time to bury Tsarnov. You're sympathy for his uncle, who is trying to do the best he can is touching. Just in case you don't get it, that's sarcasm.

Mariana

(15,626 posts)
16. I wouldn't want to be the caretaker
Sun May 5, 2013, 08:32 PM
May 2013

whose job is to keep up that particular cemetery plot. You'd be amazed at what nasty things people will do to a gravesite, if they hated the person who's buried there (or the relatives who are still living). They don't necessarily stop at defacing the headstone, if there is one. Sometimes they urinate, or defecate, or masturbate on the grave. Would you want to deal with that?

Mariana

(15,626 posts)
54. Exactly.
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:57 PM
May 2013

The kind of jackass that would go out to deface this particular person's gravesite would likely be the type of person who thinks all Muslims are terrorists. If he is buried anywhere near other Muslims, their graves will be targets, too.

DesertFlower

(11,649 posts)
18. i remember when i was a kid my mom --
Sun May 5, 2013, 08:41 PM
May 2013

a practising catholic was very upset when gangster lucky luciano was buried in St. john's cemetery. she thought it was appalling that he be buried in a catholic cemetery where her grandparents were buried.

REP

(21,691 posts)
53. His uncles do not wish to violate the laws of their religion
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:52 PM
May 2013

It's not the dead guy anyone is worried about; it's the living family, who do not wish to violate the laws of their religion. I have no ill-will toward his family and understand that they probably despise what their nephew did, but he is still the son of their brother.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
22. Throw him off a boat, like OBL. Or bury him in unmarked grave at some prison.
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:01 PM
May 2013

The place where they bury prisoners whose families don't claim them. There are also places where they bury homeless and paupers that no one knows.

Raine

(31,179 posts)
24. He should be buried in his homeland, why have him spend eternity in the soil of a country
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:07 PM
May 2013

he hated so much that he gave his life trying to destroy it.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
27. Do you really thin khe was trying to destroy it?
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:09 PM
May 2013

I think he was trying to kill people and cause mayhem. But destroy the county?

Raine1967

(11,676 posts)
29. OBL was given a burial at sea. That was appropriate to his religion.
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:11 PM
May 2013

They can do this for the dead bomber.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
34. It's not your choice but the uncle
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:17 PM
May 2013

And burial at sea for Muslims was heavily disputed by some imams.

Raine1967

(11,676 posts)
43. Of course it isn't my choice. I'd never want that choice.
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:32 PM
May 2013

My point was that he could be buried at sea.

This is a good link:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/21/osama-bin-laden-death_n_2172275.html

According to another message from the Vinson's public affairs officer, only a small group of the ship's leadership was informed of the burial.

"Traditional procedures for Islamic burial was followed," the May 2 email from Rear Adm. Charles Gaouette reads. "The deceased's body was washed (ablution) then placed in a white sheet. The body was placed in a weighted bag. A military officer read prepared religious remarks, which were translated into Arabic by a native speaker. After the words were complete, the body was placed on a prepared flat board, tipped up, whereupon the deceased's body slid into the sea."


In death, he was respected. (after he was elevated... religiously and politically) *

*EDITING TO CLARIFY*

I meant to say AFTER his death, his religion and the disposal of his body was respected.

*end of edit*

I'm pretty sure they can figure out something for this bomber.

and at a certain point, I'm not so concerned about some imams. A body needs to be ridden. It's a dead human. There are options.





 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
39. Because his uncle is the legal guardian
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:21 PM
May 2013

And trying to bury a now dead body, who has power over the living he never had in life.

Bury him already and get it over with. I am amazed by some of the things posted here. The widow surrendered all legal responsibility to the uncle...to send the body abroad he'd have to pay for that, for starters.

DesertFlower

(11,649 posts)
47. thank you. i started this thread
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:41 PM
May 2013

saying that i felt sorry for the uncle. i saw the man on tv. he said (paraphrase) "i'm all alone with this".

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
48. And Americans might not understand
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:43 PM
May 2013

The global implications either.

Muslims might or might not approve of what he did, but this makes us look like jack asses best case, barbarians most likely.

Raine1967

(11,676 posts)
49. nadin, maybe you can help me out with this query:
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:44 PM
May 2013

how/when did the uncle become become the legal guardian? Was it really as simple as the widow surrendering legal responsibility?

I ask simply because that just doesn't seem like it could be allowed under marriage laws.

This story just get stranger and stranger.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
50. Yes, it was as simple as her
Sun May 5, 2013, 09:46 PM
May 2013

Surrendering it in writing to the uncle.

I suspect that was her parents trying to distance her from the whole mess.

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