What's with these "NO Compensation" Jobs?

[FirstLight]

I tried to find a forum here on Employment but I'm posting here instead.

So today I decide to browse for some writing gigs on Craigslist, since I am doing relatively well in my Journalism BA classes.
I figured I might find something I qualify for on a new level. I have 15+ years of experience in news writing, webdesign/copy writing, desktop publishing, so I figured it could be helpful to take a look at the market locally/regionally.

Here's the thing...there are tons of people asking for web copywriters, editors, and LOTS of content writers... but every last one of the listings are NO PAY. Why is writing considered a hobby? How can these people ask for all this content and ability then offer nothing in return? Why is my profession considered expendable when it comes to compensation???
It makes me want to answer every last one of those posts and ask them the same questions... how dare they ask for my qualifications and skill level then say..."your compensation is the experience" or "you are writing for your portfolio"


GAH!

sorry I had to rant....

THIS is the kind of stuff that makes me think my degree really is going to be worthless because nobody wants to pay anyone for anything anymore.

[NYC_SKP]

1. I wouldn't use Craigslist as a primary indicator of the job market.

You might want to contact two or three of these for more information.

I wonder if they are trying to appeal to the young hungry workers out there who want to build a portfolio.

[FirstLight]

4. ya, well

I am sure they want the young folks...though they sure do have detailed requirements for content...and like young kids don;t need to eat or pay rent ??

ugh...it's a trend in journalism and writing ...everyone thinks they can write, and nobody thinks it's worth paying for when they want someone to do it for them.

[Posteritatis]

41. It's not a bad indicator of the job market's marginal areas, though.

People using Craigslist or Kijiji or the other equivalents as part of their job hunt are usually somewhat straitened, and people posting the ads know that, so they can get quite predatory.

[Liberal Veteran]

2. This is creeping into lots of things. Unpaid internships, ect...

It is another way to make another person money without actually paying them any wages under the guise of providing them with...ahem..."valuable experience".

If you ask me, it is simply a way to exploit someone's skills without actually paying them and is a most disturbing trend.

[liberal N proud]

7. The internships are the frosting on this dynamite cake

You put a kid through 4 - 5 years of school and saddle them with enormous student loans, then you tell them they have to work for a year without pay before they can then go into the job market for which they will probably spend another 2 or more years trying to find a job in their field at which point their skills are out of date. Go back to Go.

[FirstLight]

8. exactly!!!

it's so frustrating. I went back for my BA because I figured the economy was gonna take a couple more years to turn arund and it would be a worthwhile way to pass the time....

I may not be looking for the big salary and healthcare job with a fancy publication ...but that shouldn't mean I am worth NO compensation. And I am 43 years old...I HAVE the experience, thank you very much!

[kestrel91316]

28. Jobs are now only for the wealthy who need some way to occupy their time,

though they don't need the job for the money.

There are few jobs anymore. Why hire someone who wants to be paid when you can hire someone who doesn't care about the money??

[Gormy Cuss]

33. And who can afford to take these "internships?"

Last edited Tue May 7, 2013, 05:02 PM - Edit history (1)

People with their own money or with well-off parents. Everyone else must find a paying gig in order to subsidize the unpaid internship. So those with funds can treat an unpaid job as a resume builder while others who may be just as talented are working at a job that has nothing to do with their career goals.

[Liberal Veteran]

36. There is that. Not to mention trying to juggle a paying job with an internship.

Can you imagine working in retail or many service industries where the hours may be variable (working an afternoon shift followed by morning shift with no rhyme or reason one can count on) with an unpaid internship that demands you be somewhere at a certain time each day?

[Brickbat]

3. Hold the line, FirstLight.

"Writing for your portfolio" or "clips" or "experience" is a crock, and you recognize that. It's shameful what creative types are expected to do for free. Thanks for holding the line and good luck in your search. Craigslist isn't the best place to look, though. What kind of work are you looking for?

[FirstLight]

10. thanks

I usually do freelance gigs locally ...like copy writing for websites, flyers, brochures, etc. My main skill is of course news and journalism, which is my passion...but the local papers are not hiring, and I have been passed over before while working for them because of the damn degree thing.

i guess I'll just have to keep poking around..Or maybe the Universe is telling me to just focus on school for now.

[Brickbat]

13. I have picked up a *lot* of gigs on freelancing websites, such as Elance.

On the one hand, it's discouraging, because you're competing with a lot of people who are willing to work for next to nothing, and it can take awhile to find a match. On the other hand, I've found several clients, including long-term and repeat clients, who are willing to pay my (uncompromising) rates. I also believe that things are starting to turn around for freelancers; after the debacles of outsourcing content to non-native English speakers, more companies are willing to pay good rates for good content.

[TreasonousBastard]

5. They never did, it's just now they get away with it more...

Nobody wants to pay to read content on the web, so they say there's no money to pay for the content nobody wants to pay for.

And there's enough people out there desperate or clueless enough to write for free hoping someone notices and they can land a paying gig somewhere.

A vicious cycle that sucks rocks, but it doesn't look like it's slowing down any time soon until all of us old farts are in the grave and there aren't enough kids to fill the few jobs they have.

[LiberalAndProud]

6. As I understand it, Huffington Post is the model.

What's that old saw about milk and cows?

[MineralMan]

9. There's paid work, but you won't find it on Craig's List.

OTOH, I have found several clients by advertising my services on Craig's list, including my primary client for my web content writing. I'm not unpaid, either. I'm not making as much as I used to, when I was writing for magazines with !,000,000+ circulations, but it's a living, and it's fairly straightforward writing.

The uncompensated content writing is bullshit. Don't do it, under any circumstances. Content mills that are spewing out lousy work are on their way out, since Google started using some decent algorithms to identify quality content. It's not perfect yet, but it's improving all the time.

Traditional journalism jobs are few and far between, and there's tons of competition. These days, either corporate web content jobs or freelancing for such work is how it's done. If someone offers you crap pay or no pay, just laugh in their faces and walk away. Keep looking.

My best advice for you is to create a website for your own business, where you can demonstrate your skills. Keep updating it constantly and try to present a broad range of topic areas you can handle. Then start calling web designers who are clearly successful and offer your services. The successful ones understand the need for quality content. The rest don't matter.

[FirstLight]

12. good advice

thanks!

I guess it is par for the course these days. Traditional media is dead or dying...I guess the last time I worked in a newsroom was probably the last time a newsroom like that existed...

[MineralMan]

16. Good luck to you!

Skills, hard work, and talent still pay off, but it's a lot harder than it used to be. I'm an old fart of 68, now, and I'm still working at doing the same things I've always done. I doubt I'll quit. Someone will find me slumped over a keyboard someday, I suppose.

[bunnies]

11. Yep. Its a joke.

I do web design & programming and I see the exact same thing here.

Its because everybody and their brother thinks they know everything about photoshop and web design. And everybody thinks they're good enough to do it as a job. But since you can't get a job in our fields without a portfolio, people are willing to work for free & they drain the market for people like you and I. Thanks for devaluing our careers, douchebags!

[FirstLight]

14. +10000!!

...I have the utmost respect for your skills too... I have had several clients think that because I took a stupid Dreamweaver class 5 years ago that I can fix their website...I tell them, I can write your copy, do logos and pictures, give you design ideas...BUT I cannot make it happen in code!

ya...those folks who think they know how to do stuff are seriously ruining it for those of us who actually DO know what we're doing. guh!

[bunnies]

17. lol!

And most of those clients probably dont even know what language their site is programmed in. You wouldnt believe how many times I ask and get a blank stare in response. They also rarely understand that not every programmer knows every language. But ya know... Its programs like dreamweaver that make all those morons think they're an expert on design and programming. Really its good for mock-ups and nothing else. And companies dont even seem to ask for marketing experience anymore. Theres another wasted skill-set.

Everyone with a blog is a copywriter and everyone with photoshop is a graphic design genius. The field never used to be like this. So frustrating!!!!

[MineralMan]

18. Freelancing is the only way. Create a business doing what you do,

partner with a very talented content writer and create a couple of very successful website projects for real clients. Then, leverage that success to find new clients. That's how it's done. My primary client is a very talented website designer and an absolute SEO genius. He found me through a Craig's List ad I posted, checked me out on my own website, and called me. Our most recent project took a regional company that was almost impossible to find on the web to the #1 and/or #2 spots on search results for the most often used search terms. We've done that multiple times for multiple clients, and we use that success when we talk to new prospective clients.

We're far from cheap to hire, but the results are extraordinary for the client, so our prices can be commensurate with our performance.

Quality pays off. Everything else is not worth bothering with.

[bunnies]

19. That is seriously impressive.

Congrats on your success. You've definitely given me much to think about and I think you might be right. I hadn't seriously considered freelancing previously due to the fluctuation in income. Some definitely beats none though! And what the hell... there really isnt much to lose by trying!

[MineralMan]

24. Good luck with it!

[bunnies]

27. Thanks!

and for the great idea

[Cleita]

15. Yeah, a lot of people seem to want you to work for free or

they offer something in exchange (not money). I believe it once was against labor laws and I don't know how they get away with it. Well, I'm sure there is something out there that pays if you keep looking. It is a bad job market out there though as I well know.

[HiPointDem]

20. better question is why people answer those ads.

[Quantess]

21. Don't look for jobs on craigslist, first of all.

I know, I know, it's easy and convenient on craigslist. But I got more trouble than it was worth, over the years of using craigslist in my job search.
I got an offer one of those check cashing scammers in reply to a legitimate looking office job ad... what a disappointment.

[FirstLight]

23. ya, well...

I use the Craigslist because it is more regional and locally inclined. Living in a small town in a remote rural area it's best to stick to those labeled with your town's name. And many of our local businesses and newspapers post there as well...

I can see where the scams would be rampant in a bigger market, and I have seen a few of those too. I was primarily looking for a small gig in my local market...not for anything huge or get rich quick...
After all I am still doing school right now, and I guess I should just focus on the one client I *do* have and get her stuff cranked out...she is a longtime friend and mentor who lets me help with her emails, admin and facebook stuff, etc. I am currently re- doing her website on a free platform, so we can update the content without needing a programmer every time, cuz I am code-illiterate! she pays me as much as she can when she can, but I do most of the work out of love and respect...so it's hard to consider her a client, since I am really into what she does as being good for mankind, etc...

[kestrel91316]

29. I post ads for open positions on CL and get LOTS of resumes and have found some great

employees that way. But there is a lot of ad spamming AND reply spamming.

[whistler162]

43. Interestingly I found a jon on Craigslist

good guy and a Liberal. I worked for him full time for awhile and now work for him part time. Got a state job that had benefits, he is a very small computer support firm where he and his son(employee) have VA benefits so there is no health benefits. I also have had a scammer contact me.

[Octafish]

22. Must look great on a resume.

"No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money." -- Dr. Johnson

[hrmjustin]

26. Welcome to DU my friend!

[progressoid]

30. I've heard this one, "this will be good practice for you"

I've been in my career for three decades, I don't need practice.

[aikoaiko]

31. I wouldn't look for a paying gig on a website where it's free to post.

Last edited Tue May 7, 2013, 04:21 PM - Edit history (1)

Its a sure sign of stinginess.

[bobclark86]

32. I've seen it all, man...

in both my career as a writer and occasionally as a photographer.

"But it's good experience!"

"You can have something for your clip file!"

"A byline's BETTER than a paycheck!"

I went to college. I've got plenty of work experience doing much higher-profile stuff than you are offering.

When it comes to work, I have this one rule:
Give me cash, or I give you "the finger."

[DCBob]

34. Have you looked into technical writing?

That seems to be a decent career with decent pay. I have noticed a number of listings for that skill around here in the DC area.

[alcibiades_mystery]

35. No compensation jobs are illegal in the United States

You receive either pay, or education equal to a class in an accredited institution in the subject matter. Any other arrangement is a violation of state and federal labor law.

If somebody is advertising a no compensation job, you should report that person or organization immediately.

[FirstLight]

37. ...really?

read the gigs at the link and tell me they should be reported?
http://reno.craigslist.org/search/wrg?query=+

sorry, I bet you are being serious, but if there's those 'right to work' laws now...they can do whatever they want. I just don't have to answer the ads, though.

[alcibiades_mystery]

39. It's illegal

They should be reported to the Department of Labor. It is against the law.

[Occulus]

40. They gave you the link. YOU report it if you like.

Be sure to let us know how much luck you have.

If you get laughed at and then hung up on, let us know that, too. I know which outcome I would bet on....

[FirstLight]

38. I finally snapped and sent emails to them ALL!

just to be the smarmy little rebel I am...

Please tell me why your publication and others posting here on Craigslist are offering NO compensation for writers?
I am a professional journalist and writer and have been in the field for 15 years. I have won awards for my skills.
It it amazing that so many publications seem to think the experience is compensation enough.
Please realize, you get what you pay for.
If you want good content, you should respect the profession.
thank you.

[FirstLight]

42. got one reply...

"Actually we do pay, but you're an asshole so fuck off"

NICE PROFESSIONALISM! sheesh!