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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
Sat May 11, 2013, 04:17 PM May 2013

Let's Tax Offshore Wealth

We have the technology. We know who and we know where They have hidden the cash.



[font size="1"]"Conspiratorial Wink" (detail) by Michael Samuels[/font size]



On My Mind

Tax Offshore Wealth Sitting In First World Banks


James S. Henry
07.01.10, 09:00 AM EDT
Forbes Magazine dated July 19, 2010

Let's tax offshore private wealth.

How can we get the world's wealthiest scoundrels--arms dealers, dictators, drug barons, tax evaders--to help us pay for the soaring costs of deficits, disaster relief, climate change and development? Simple: Levy a modest withholding tax on untaxed private offshore loot.

Many aboveground economies around the world are struggling, but the economic underground is booming. By my estimate, there is $15 trillion to $20 trillion in private wealth sitting offshore in bank accounts, brokerage accounts and hedge fund portfolios, completely untaxed.

SNIP...

This wealth is concentrated. Nearly half of it is owned by 91,000 people--0.001% of the world's population. Ninety-five percent is owned by the planet's wealthiest 10 million people.

SNIP...

Is it feasible? Yes. The majority of offshore wealth is managed by 50 banks. As of September 2009 these banks accounted for $10.8 trillion of offshore assets--72% of the industry's total. The busiest 10 of them manage 40%.

CONTINUED....

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0719/opinions-taxation-tax-havens-banking-on-my-mind.html



This would beat the alternative. No, not austerity; the guillotine.
36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Let's Tax Offshore Wealth (Original Post) Octafish May 2013 OP
Let's tax wealth. Make them invest it in something useful or take it back. nt bemildred May 2013 #1
SOSO since 1981... Octafish May 2013 #10
we need a maximum wealth People Power May 2013 #22
Yes, I like that, put a limit on it, it could even be pretty high. bemildred May 2013 #25
Hear Hear, Sir! The Magistrate May 2013 #2
Outstanding suggestion, Sir! Octafish May 2013 #14
I've often thought that.... Wounded Bear May 2013 #3
How about a Virtual War? Octafish May 2013 #17
We need a billionaire's nightmare inheritance law combined with a wealth tax on corporations. Egalitarian Thug May 2013 #4
And also fix the tax loopholes in inheritance laws that lets those estates escape capital gains tax cascadiance May 2013 #9
We should, and are completely free to do so, scrap the entire tax code and replace it with Egalitarian Thug May 2013 #11
Absolutely! Octafish May 2013 #18
Let's just take it all from them. If it ain't here in the US then fuck them! L0oniX May 2013 #5
Outstanding! Octafish May 2013 #19
Which "We" can do this? Bannakaffalatta May 2013 #6
Weren't "tax shelters" ways that taxes created jobs? zbdent May 2013 #7
absolutely! K&R nt antigop May 2013 #8
Seize their assets - redistribute them n/t leftstreet May 2013 #12
And I agree. timdog44 May 2013 #28
We've had the list since Clinton's admin. They sued Visa & MC and WON elehhhhna May 2013 #13
K&R nt abelenkpe May 2013 #15
Damn straight. truebluegreen May 2013 #16
So I guess this mean y'all are ready for a socialist revolution? socialist_n_TN May 2013 #20
We are ready for a socialist reform, not revolution. bemildred May 2013 #21
We'll see...... socialist_n_TN May 2013 #23
So you want to give up, or are your spreading the alarm, or what? bemildred May 2013 #24
I'm a communist........ socialist_n_TN May 2013 #26
OK. bemildred May 2013 #27
Revolutions ARE difficult and, for most people, a last resort...... socialist_n_TN May 2013 #29
My pleasure. bemildred May 2013 #32
Thank you...... socialist_n_TN May 2013 #34
Make them think twice: 150% tax on every dollar stored off shore. Initech May 2013 #30
We might be able to replace some school roofs and have airconditioning Rosa Luxemburg May 2013 #31
+1,000 malaise May 2013 #33
If the money is offshore for the purposes of evading taxes, then there ought to be Mr. David May 2013 #35
Gee, gang...welcome to the rational side. What took you so long? BanTheGOP May 2013 #36

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
10. SOSO since 1981...
Sat May 11, 2013, 05:59 PM
May 2013

...when Pruneface had just stolen his way into office by going into business with the Ayatollah. To get a moribund economy going, EVERYBODY voted tax cuts for the rich. It's been the greedheads' solution for every problem ever since.

Unfortunately for We the People, the monies the wealthy got to keep in reduced taxes of every variety never were invested in making things like cars or recreational submarines, the stuff that requires workers to create. It went to Wall Street where it became a WMD of jobs destruction as it was invested in financial instruments with greater returns than manufacturing.

Today, thanks to 32 years worth of UNENDING trickle down, the rich are richer than ever. The poor are poorer than ever. And America's once great middle class is going extinct.

 

People Power

(6 posts)
22. we need a maximum wealth
Sun May 12, 2013, 12:07 PM
May 2013

These people have a mental illness and millions of people are starving because of it.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
25. Yes, I like that, put a limit on it, it could even be pretty high.
Sun May 12, 2013, 12:16 PM
May 2013

It's amazing how having a little money can get you obsessing about it and devoting your life to it.

The Magistrate

(95,247 posts)
2. Hear Hear, Sir!
Sat May 11, 2013, 04:22 PM
May 2013

Hell, better than to tax it, simply confiscate it entire, as seizure of an asset involved in a crime, pour encourager les autres....

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
14. Outstanding suggestion, Sir!
Sat May 11, 2013, 06:14 PM
May 2013

The monies would remake the nation and save the world.

Austerity isn't going to cut it, for us or anybody else. It only will serve to make things worse.

The state now confiscates suspected drug dealers' assets, why not grab that of the money behind them? What a heureuse surprise, almost all around.

Wounded Bear

(58,654 posts)
3. I've often thought that....
Sat May 11, 2013, 04:23 PM
May 2013

If we really must invade someone, it should be the Caymans or Switzerland or some of the "Free" Banking countries.

Just sayin'.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
17. How about a Virtual War?
Sun May 12, 2013, 08:50 AM
May 2013

Our Hackers vs. Their Counter-Hackers.

Either way, winner takes all. A tradition in banking.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
4. We need a billionaire's nightmare inheritance law combined with a wealth tax on corporations.
Sat May 11, 2013, 04:26 PM
May 2013

Individual's pay it back into the economy when they die and corporations pay us every year for the privilege of existing.

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
9. And also fix the tax loopholes in inheritance laws that lets those estates escape capital gains tax
Sat May 11, 2013, 05:50 PM
May 2013

... when they don't tax the capital gains based on the law of when it was originally acquired and not taxed until the the inheritor sells the asset. It should be the value change from when the asset was first acquired, not the timing of when it was transferred in the estate to the inheritor. Either that or pay the capital gains on the current value of the inheritance before it is transferred to the inheritor.

So many wealthy families take advantage of this loophole in escaping capital gains taxes that should be paid.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
11. We should, and are completely free to do so, scrap the entire tax code and replace it with
Sat May 11, 2013, 06:02 PM
May 2013

less than 10 pages. OTOH, we have created an entire industry of unproductive busy-work around the morass that is the tax code, so we'd have address that as well.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
18. Absolutely!
Sun May 12, 2013, 08:53 AM
May 2013

Your understanding of justice makes me believe you would make an outstanding Attorney General of the United States.

The giant corporations have enjoyed Untouchable status ever since the Brothers Dulles ran Iran into the ground for British Petroleum.

 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
5. Let's just take it all from them. If it ain't here in the US then fuck them!
Sat May 11, 2013, 04:29 PM
May 2013

Drone attack the foreign banks that hold their money?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
19. Outstanding!
Sun May 12, 2013, 08:58 AM
May 2013

Perhaps a vacuum-cleaner mop-up operation afterward, like the transforming planet destroyer MegaMaid in Spaceballs, could collect what isn't vaporized from the rubble and cash boxes.



In all seriousness: If these banks want to keep their depositors' monies in the global economy, they would have to play ball with Justice.

 

Bannakaffalatta

(94 posts)
6. Which "We" can do this?
Sat May 11, 2013, 04:30 PM
May 2013

I believe it's technically and physically possible.
I believe it could be done fairly and neatly.
I do not believe it can be done... because the legislators and enforcement agencies, both domestic and international, are owned by the same people who are stashing that wealth - which is what allowed that wealth to emigrate, untaxed, in the first place. And besides, the people who have the power to remedy deficits, climate change, environmental disasters, crumbling infrastructure and social services are the same ones who created those situations.

zbdent

(35,392 posts)
7. Weren't "tax shelters" ways that taxes created jobs?
Sat May 11, 2013, 04:34 PM
May 2013

Companies invested in "losing" ventures to offset other taxes. But then, Reagan decided that they didn't need to do anything of the sort.

timdog44

(1,388 posts)
28. And I agree.
Sun May 12, 2013, 01:18 PM
May 2013

I do not care if it is drug money (illegal), drug money (legal), stock traders, Koch brothers, Waltons, Bangladesh garment manufacturers. Seize the money by force, confiscate it and redistribute it. It is just sitting there and doing no one any good other than the hoarders able to say they have x amount. The game of Monopoly is winning and that is wrong.

 

elehhhhna

(32,076 posts)
13. We've had the list since Clinton's admin. They sued Visa & MC and WON
Sat May 11, 2013, 06:13 PM
May 2013

after appeals and got the lists.

Then the bushes came in. Offered two-year amnesty window - refile however far back you need to and all is forgiven. It's been in effect, basically, ever SINCE. Now that there's been a document dump it should be easy-peasy, right? Well guess what? A study came out THIS week that said even when offshore tax cheats are prosecuted, they get way easier terms and punishments than your random, generic tax cheat.

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
16. Damn straight.
Sat May 11, 2013, 09:43 PM
May 2013

These people need to be held to account for their thievery--they have been playing the system that they created, for their own benefit...or they can be the first against the wall when the revolution comes (h/t Douglas Adams).

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
21. We are ready for a socialist reform, not revolution.
Sun May 12, 2013, 11:33 AM
May 2013

Edit: and actually it has been done before, reform, and more than once too.

socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)
23. We'll see......
Sun May 12, 2013, 12:08 PM
May 2013

It's never been done (socialist reform) without the THREAT of socialist revolution. And it won't happen again without the same threat. Also, every time the system has been "reformed", capitalism has shredded the reforms in a couple of generations. Reforming capitalism is like riding a tiger. It's VERY hard to do and you're always in danger of being eaten.

Are you ready for our grandchildren to have to go through the same shit again in another couple of generations? At some point the "reform" efforts will fail and we're into fascism. And the jury is still out. The time of fascism might be now.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
24. So you want to give up, or are your spreading the alarm, or what?
Sun May 12, 2013, 12:14 PM
May 2013

I am well aware it is not an easy task, and that those that have will resist sharing, they like being big shots and having servants, and that fundamentally we need to grow better people, but it certainly can and has be done much better than we do, and that most certainly is a worthwhile task to pursue.

socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)
26. I'm a communist........
Sun May 12, 2013, 12:20 PM
May 2013

We don't give up. But I'm also a Trotskyist, which means that there have to be certain conditions being met for a revolution to be successful. So I work towards the achievement of those conditions when I work against the capitalist system. Small steps at this time. Organizing the working class, propagandizing and agitation, attempting to raise the consciousness of the working class into being a class FOR itself instead just a class OF itself.

And as V.I. Lenin said, sometimes years go by with nothing happening and then sometimes years go by in months. I'm TRYING to be prepared for those "years go by in months" times

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
27. OK.
Sun May 12, 2013, 12:31 PM
May 2013

I'm OK with all that. I prefer not to label myself, but Commies do not worry me, Marx was an important thinker, and I don't think you're going to have to wait a long time now.

I like Hardt & Negri if that tells you something, but I remain skeptical about neat simple theories of what comes next, and I'm not in a mood to try to disentangle Marx/Lenin/Trotsky and Communist dogmatic disputes. Trotsky is a very interesting guy too.

I tend to favor evolution over revolution for the simple reason that revolutions are by their nature destructive and hard to control, you can lose a lot and not get that utopia at the end. A little violence you can deal with, a lot of violence and everything just kind of falls apart and the greedheads and war lovers take over.

socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)
29. Revolutions ARE difficult and, for most people, a last resort......
Sun May 12, 2013, 05:25 PM
May 2013

I'm old now and I doubt if I will see it, but the possibility is there and SOMETHING is coming. Whether it's a socialist revolution or a fascist takeover or (even more probable in the medium term IMO) a Bonapartist dictatorship, something is coming.

Trotsky said that two of the conditions that have to be extant for a revolution is that the ruling class cannot keep control in the old way and that the working class cannot go on in the old way. The first condition is coming true more rapidly than the second, but both are happening before our eyes. We're seeing the rise in fascistic methods of control from the capitalists and their toadies in the political class because the old ways of control don't work as well anymore. The working class has to catch up with their part of it and that's what I meant in my previous post about the working class becoming a class FOR itself. That's all about raising consciousness of the inherent power that resides in the class that toils for somebody else's profits.

I think that even most (not all, but most) hardened revolutionaries would prefer evolution to revolution because of the very things that you mentioned. Unfortunately, we are revolutionary because reform hasn't worked and has never worked and we don't believe anymore that it CAN work. As I said in the previous post, capitalism ALWAYS breaks it's regulatory chains, sooner or later. This is why you see this type of behavior from the capitalist class throughout history. And it always leads to a reaction because people don't want the unregulated version of capitalism. So it's time to smash the system and try something new. Hopefully, we've got a few "bad" examples to avoid from the past, so it's up to us to make it work. This time. That's another reason I'm a Trotskyist. His is the Marxist road not taken.

One last point. There aren't any "...neat, simple theories of what comes next". If there were there wouldn't be any need for organizing, propagandizing, agitation and analyses of current situations and trends. If a worker's state was an inevitability then we could all just sit around and wait for it. There are other options that are worse for the working class, but are possibilities in a revolutionary situation. Our work is to MAKE the socialist revolution the only viable option out of the options arising from the revolutionary situation.

BTW, thanks for allowing me to explain.

socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)
34. Thank you......
Sun May 12, 2013, 05:48 PM
May 2013

If you ever have a few minutes, check out our web site: www.workerspower.net. I'm on the editorial board and am one of the writers of the articles.

Rosa Luxemburg

(28,627 posts)
31. We might be able to replace some school roofs and have airconditioning
Sun May 12, 2013, 05:34 PM
May 2013

It just needs a nudge at the top.

 

Mr. David

(535 posts)
35. If the money is offshore for the purposes of evading taxes, then there ought to be
Sun May 12, 2013, 05:48 PM
May 2013

quadruple taxation for trying to bring their money back in. As a punishment.

And revoke the U.S. citizenship of that such person if they were trying to avoid taxes in the first place. Declare the evader stateless, and if they want to keep their citizenship, pay the taxes back by 1000% and given a provisional green card for 10 years and pay taxes properly and on time, then they can regain their US citizenship after a generous contribution to the U.S. Treasury.



 

BanTheGOP

(1,068 posts)
36. Gee, gang...welcome to the rational side. What took you so long?
Mon May 13, 2013, 10:50 AM
May 2013

I've been advocating for wealth taxes since I came to DU during the Bush whack-off show. NOBODY should be a billionaire!! Nobody needs more than, say, $10 million dollars; everything over that amount should be repatriated and distributed to the needy and to needed infrastructure. If we did this, we could pay for everything immediately.

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