General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLots of Dems Love Elon Musk...but, does he use Union Workers to Build his Tesla Cars?
I've read a lot about Musk and how he's a Hero for Not supporting TransCanada Pipeline (Keystone XL here in USA) ...But, his energy efficient car is causing controversy in states where he wants to cut out the "Car Dealers" and sell his Tesla over the internet. Big thing in NC where 80 High Rollers of the 1% are being hit back by NC Car Dealers selling cars to the rest of us 99% are enraged that he wants to sell his car on his own, cutting out the Middle Dealer and costing jobs.
But, with his "Space X Program" and some other enterprises he is touted as "The Future of America."
But, I Googled: "Does Elon Musk Use Union Workers to Build his Tesla Cars?" And, this is one interesting article that I found. There are others but this one was from a Business Site...so though some folks here might find it interesting.
----------
General Electric Motors
Tesla has high hopes for its high-spec electric cars
FROM THE 1960s to the 1980s it was a General Motors plant. From then until 2010 it was used by GM and Toyota to make cars jointly. Now the giant carmaking factory at Fremont in Silicon Valley is in its third incarnation, as the manufacturing base of Tesla Motors, a maker of electric cars set up by Elon Musk, a founder of PayPal and of SpaceX, a rocket-maker.
Mr Musk is a man of big ideas. His long-term aim is to help colonise Mars and die peacefully there. His entry into carmaking, an industry that has been the graveyard of many ambitions, is almost as bold. Mr Musk set up Tesla to hasten what he sees as the motor industrys inevitable switch to battery power. Having started with expensive sports cars, to be followed next year by an equally upmarket sport-utility vehicle, the plan is eventually to move to more mass-market models and become a sort of General Electric Motors
So far Tesla is using only a quarter of the Fremont plants vast area. This year it plans to make just 20,000 cars as it concentrates on moving into profit. Mr Musk acquired the factory for $42m, far less than it would have cost to build, and bought lots of second-hand equipment.
Tesla is doing a lot of things differently from the mainstream carmakers. It produces many key parts in-house, from the battery packs to the slick touch-screen control panels. It is setting up a network of free fast-recharging points for its customers to top up their batteries on the road. It is battling Americas powerful car-dealership lobby so it can set up its own retail outlets. And it is aiming to get its products from the drawing-board to the assembly line at the speed of Silicon Valley tech firms rather than the statelier pace of Detroits car giants. Teslas manufacturing chief, Gilbert Passin, says the Model S moved from first design to production in just over two years, something he reckons would take a traditional carmaker five or six years.
AND Here's the Key to what Tesla Production could mean for Union Workers:
Working in Teslas favour is its lack of baggage of any kind. It has no internal-combustion technology to defend, and thus no problem in reaching regulators ever tighter targets for fuel efficiency. It has no inherited pension and health-care liabilities and no auto workers union. In the past premium car brands have typically taken decades to establish themselves, but perhaps the millennial generation, used to seeing new smartphones rise and old ones fall, will be more open to start-up brands, especially ones from Silicon Valley.
More at....
http://www.economist.com/news/special-report/21576218-tesla-has-high-hopes-its-high-spec-electric-cars-general-electric-motors
JVS
(61,935 posts)Am I supposed to wonder if this guy employs union labor to make his car because a bunch of car dealers who generally pay people by commission are pissed off that he's going to cut them out of the action?
KoKo
(84,711 posts)And, that Car Dealers in NC and some other States are pushing back against him is an issue that is separate. The Car Dealers don't feel it's fair to them that he can sell his cars over the Internet and cut them out. It's a separate issue but the two are together in that Musk has a new concept. And, what will it mean for workers and jobs, in US if he doesn't have the GM Baggage of Pensions, Union Scale Pay and Bargaining. And, if his enterprise takes off what happens when other US Car Manufacturers want to cut out the Car Dealers and sell THEIR CARS over the internet..without Dealers.
It's an important issue for our future. So, that's why I posted the Article with Comments.
It's about JOBS and about whether we DEMS will support Unions and Auto Dealers? Or, should both Unions and Middle Dealers be cut out so we just buy everthing over the Internet? But, then....does the Internet Middleman/Woman get Their CUT? And, where will we go to test drive our car purchases if the car dealers are totally cut out? What about their living and families? Or, is this just a Brave New World where we buy it all from Amazon or Craigs List? Or, whatever NEW Middleman/Woman will take the place of what we have today?
JVS
(61,935 posts)I support neither their markups, nor their pricing practices, nor their pay practices (they badly abuse a commission system of compensation rather than paying salaries). Unions are a good cause, car dealers aren't.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)by a collective bargaining agreement or is represented by a union.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Look at the reviews, mostly the recent ones about employees experience working there: http://www.indeed.com/cmp/Tesla-Motors/reviews
Yikes!
snooper2
(30,151 posts)LOL
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)honestly, I don't give that mush of a shit about it, just trying to help.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)It's extremely difficult to get a new business off the ground, esp vehicles. Every dollar counts. I don't fault a start-up operation from not using union workers to build the cars. Other car makers are established. To me, that's different.
I noted that he also bought used equipment, bought certain kinds of equipment so as not to have tougher regulations re the environment, and got a great deal on the plant. So he's cost-cutting everywhere.
As long as he's paying decent wages. It doesn't say he's not providing health care. It says he didn't inherit health care liabilities. Not sure if that means retirement health care benefits or what.
I think the article is referring to the fact that he didn't buy an existing plant with the workers, and inherited pension and retirement health care liabilities. But not sure.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)I am still a supporter of Musk and his company even if they are not using UAW labor at the moment. Also, single payer would alleviate so much of pension worries in America.
http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Tesla-Motors-Salaries-E43129.htm
KoKo
(84,711 posts)there are Democratic Issues as a Party that we might want to think about. He is challenging ...and it could cost jobs and benefits for already struggling American Workers.
We don't want to see rights of US Workers to become on par with China/India and other Third World workers LACK of rights, safety, benefits and quality of life.
Already we've seen heroes like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates ship the production of their products overseas to slave labor. If Musk and other creatives can buy factories on the cheap, employ workers on the cheap and cut out jobs that Auto Dealers supply all over the US by just using the Internet to sell his product...then that's worrisome. Something we need to think about going forward in these hard economic times. Do we want to have our workers compete with Bangeladesh? Does Elon Musk want that?
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)organize, then more power to him. We'll see what he does if someone starts and organizing campaign.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)the same idea to sell through Internet, though. He's pushing back hard in North Carolina...and Car Dealers are pretty upset here.
I'm not a fan of some car dealers ...but, they do provide jobs that aren't service work...and they have families, too. Even though...I have had bad experiences with many of them and the mark ups and dealings and deception. Still....it's something we might want to think about.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,368 posts)I guarantee you they have thought of it and dismissed it. There is a very solid reason for the car dealership business model - they are local and you can take your car back there for service when needed. Even huge fleet purchases like rental car fleet buys go through a dealership.
If you buy a Tesla over the internet and you have a problem, where are you going to take it? Fremont?
If he wants to avoid having to build a network of Tesla stores/dealerships, then I'm betting they will join with someone like AutoNation for sales and service.
Even Fiat has built its dealer network back up now that they are selling the 500's here.
It is a fact however, that there is a plethora of vacant dealer venues in this country. Musk could snatch them up for a song and put his logo on the street along with everyone else.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)Cheers!
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)madokie
(51,076 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)reviews. The employees clearly state their hours.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Sounds like a place to work for a couple of years and rack up some savings from O.T., do the job, mind your business, do what you're told, then move on. It's not a place to work for a lifetime job.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)It remains to be seen how this all works out for Elon's Venture. He could become the "Rolls-Royce of Prius" of Tomorrow...or the "Delorean" of Yesterday.
Mother Muckraker
(116 posts)Its not out of the question to have unions, but if theres going to be a union, theyd better understand that theyre on the same side as the company, he added. Im against having a two-class system where youve got the workers and then the managers, sort of like nobles and peasants
Most of our experienced factory workers come from unionized environments, and we asked them what benefit did they see in unions, he added. They said, Well, if their boss was an asshole, they had recourse.
I said, Lets make a rule: There will be no assholes. I fired someone for being an asshole. And I only had to do that once, actually.
Tesla has hired a union buster as head of HR. They also hired back NUMMI managers (non-union NUMMI) and anti-UAW workers to quell dissent.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)What a great way to start posting here! Looking forward to reading more from you... Love your screenname and hope that you'll prove as worthy of it in future posts as in this one.
Welcome!
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)[img][/img]
Mother Muckraker
(116 posts)"I am a strategic planner who has led Human Resources and Legal departments through periods of rapid growth and change. Senior executives view me as a valued business partner due to my ability to develop trusting relationships, understand business's long-term objectives, and willingness to propose workable solutions to complex problems. I have initiated programs that allow leaders to assess flight risk of needed talent and the requisite steps to prevent. I have reduced enterprise risk by proactively conducting wage and hour audits, developing a centralized HR compliance program, drafting and updating policies and procedures, and training managers on employment law. I am a coach and mentor to leaders and others within Human Resources.
Specialties
Labor and employment law
Employee and Labor Relations
Talent Management
HR Compliance
Union Avoidance
Workplace Investigations
Leadership and Messaging
Coaching and Training
Risk Management
Department Development
Problem Solver"
That list of "specialities" is the union buster's line of expertise. In this case, he explicitly writes "Union Avoidance".
"Training managers on employment law" is the backbone of a union avoidance campaign. The union buster will train the Production Supervisors who are the rank and file's immediate manager whom they interact with daily.
As former NUMMI managers, they know which NUMMI employees to exclude from employment. Also, the managers are specially selected. Only the ones who are the most anti-union will be hired.
Tesla only hired 20-25 Ex-NUMMI workers and most of them were management.
This is also how NUMMI was union busted before Tesla moved in. The "in-house union buster" as head of HR recruited several people and installed a guy in the UAW. That guy, Juan Castillo wrote a faux rank n file newsletter which spread all of Toyota's lie to the rank and file. The biggest lie being that the closing of NUMMI was GM's fault. Then, Juan helped organize and provoke a "riot" that was spread all over the internet on right-wing union busting sites like laborunionreport and thetruthaboutcars. Then, the lie was further spread among the "left" with an ostensibly pro-labor activist who promoted Juan Castillo and even got him and another of his anti-union crew on PBS.
pdqsailor
(1 post)Tesla has ramped up employment to 3000 people as of the end of Q2 and is still hiring. I can not figure out what all these people are doing since the plant is so heavily automated. Still the old NUMI plants employment has NOTHING to do with Tesla - a different company producing very different automobiles in a very different way.
As to not having dealerships - big deal - who says dealerships employ more people than the retail stores that Tesla is opening except for one key difference. This car does not need much conventional service - or mechanics as it has very few parts in it and is mechanically a simple vehicle.
So exactly what is all the bitching about? This is a great car and it serves a great purpose which is to lay the groundwork for the Gen 3 vehicle that everyone will be able to buy and own and which will save us a tone of coin in operating costs and prevent oil money from going into the hands of Arab terrorists.
The only problem I can see is they need much more coin to develop these things to market faster. Much faster.
This is a great car company.
Mother Muckraker
(116 posts)A Tesla assembly line is no different than the assembly line for the Toyota Corollas and Tacomas. Workers still install parts the same way. You use the same skillset. Tesla has hired over a dozen Group Leaders from NUMMI to implement the production process and to keep former unionized workers out.
There's a number of lies and misinformation from Elon Musk ever since Tesla moved into the NUMMI plant. Here are the most recent:
Strong Roof
The claim of the roof that broke the test machine comes from Elon Musk's assertion that that is what happened. The testing company is an unnamed commercial entity with an undisclosed testing method and machinery. For all we know, the machine simply broke and had nothing to do with the strength of the roof. Or maybe it never even happened.
Highest Safety Rating Ever
Elon Musk also claimed a 5.4 star "highest safety rating ever" which the Feds have come out against. There's no such thing as a "5.4 star" rating. "5" is the highest rating which a number of cars have received.
http://www.freep.com/article/20130822/BUSINESS0104/308220164/Tesla-automotive-electric
Q2 2013 "Profits"
Tesla has promoted non-GAAP 2nd quarter $26 million profits as truth. Only GAAP numbers are official. GAAP numbers show a Q2 $31 million loss.
http://theweek.com/article/index/248016/tesla-beats-expectations-thanks-to-some-fun-with-accounting
Tesla Gen 3 $30k - $40k
The claims for the Gen 3 has been from $30k to $40k. Keep in mind that Elon Musk said the Model S was supposed to be around $50k. With the ever increasing costs of the options and the elimination of the 40 kwh model, the average price of a Model S is now upwards of $90k. Given Musk's lowball pricing in the past, you can expect the Gen 3 to cost around $50k or more if it ever gets produced. With competition from GM, Nissan and other companies with their own electric cars, it's doubtful the demand will be there for the Gen 3 to generate the kind of sales to justify it's current stock price.
Also, keep in mind the average income has slipped about 7% since 2008. The middle class have fewer people who can afford a $40k+ car.
Keep in mind that electric cars do not actually have "zero emissions". About half of U.S. electricity comes from dirty coal fired plants. In China where Tesla aims to sell more of its cars, it's 70%. The only reason why rich people buy a Tesla is because its the latest status symbol. When other premium electrics come to market, Tesla's status will decrease and those status seekers will buy something else
Response to KoKo (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Response to KoKo (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed