NEED ADVICE: Identity theft by relative; call police?

[panAmerican]

Hi everyone,

I hope you can give me some advice/information.

Two years ago, I signed a lease for a close relative, on the condition that it would be for 1 year. Last year, under very intense pressure from immediate and extended relatives, I signed again, but said that it would be the final time; others spoke up and said that this year, they would be the ones to sign or co-sign for that relative. At the time, no one else had the credit, income or met other criteria in order to afford the home size that they needed to rent.

This year, I am waiting for that person to bring me the renewal form, as that is sent to their home that I rented for them, not to my house. Come to find out Saturday afternoon, that he forged my f*ck!ng signature and renewed the lease. Now, it is past the time for me to renew I am livid, particularly because this is a relative who came from overseas, that I supported for over 12 years while he waited to come to this country with permanent residence.

There are kids involved, and he's counting on that soft spot, and on the fact that I'm Christian to muzzle me. He's crying and carrying on, and once again there are relatives calling me from here and out-of-state, telling me to forgive him and let him stay in the apt. My close relatives this time are behind me; they are ok with me telling the leasing office it wasn't my signature, but most of them don't want me to press charges. That would bring on the risk of the kids being taken away by dyfs, or having to relocate out-of-county with other relatives.

If he's arrested, their kids will not be able to finish the school year, because the lease is up at the end of this month. I'm afraid that if I forgive him, and he pulls the same stunt again next year, I won't be able to go to the police. They might say to me that I kept silent for a year and dismiss it as a family spat.

What are my options? He made his bed; should I let him lie in it, or hold back my wrath for the sake of the kids? BTW, there is now a newborn involved. I think they got pregnant on purpose to have an American-born child, and timed the birth to be near the time of renewal, to further tie my hands.

I'm overwhelmed. Advice appreciated.

[JustAnotherGen]

1. The sweetest word ever heard was a simple clear 'no'

Regardless of their circumstances - If he will do it to a family member -

I shudder to think what he might do to a stranger. You need to contact the lease office and advise them that you did not sign the lease.

Now that you know - you are in on the fraud. If THEY figure it out - you are both gonna get it.

[Dash87]

2. Call. I doubt you're the only one he's done this to.

I would be shocked, in fact. There was this lady at a place I used to work who would steal young kids credit cards, and when she got caught, she would give a sob story and sweet talk them into not pressing charges.

Her whole sob story was about how 'sorry' she was and how she has a problem and had a brief lapse of judgement and had never done this before.

She went somewhere else and got caught ripping people off there too.

I think people like this take pride in manipulating others. It's part of the game.

[HubertHeaver]

3. You need a lawyer.

The police tend to over-perform once they become involved.

[panAmerican]

17. I do have a lawyer friend

I'm just feeling ashamed about calling him for advice because this is a family matter, and I'm feeling pretty embarrassed for being duped.

[LisaL]

20. What's there to be ashamed about?

It's not your fault.

[ljm2002]

23. Talk to your lawyer friend...

...no need to feel embarrassed. Family stuff can get messy. Lawyers deal with stuff like this all the time, they know we are all vulnerable to issues like this one.

Also: I don't think this is a case of identity theft per se. It's just a case of a guy forging your signature because he feared you would say no this time. Of course it's still fraudulent and it's still wrong, but unless he's forging your signature on other things, or if he has stopped paying his rent, or he's stealing your credit card info, etc., it does not make him a hardened criminal either.

The lawyer will have a good idea as to what kinds of consequences your various courses of action may have. You should talk to this person. That's my advice.

[Yo_Mama]

40. I think the advice about getting a lawyer involved is good

You should not feel ashamed - you have helped someone and your help has been abused, and now you are the victim of an illegal act.

The fact that this person would do this should be a red flag. If you do nothing, you are on the hook for the entire rent if this person stops paying, and why wouldn't they? Something like this has got to be a hint that you may get some further very unpleasant surprises down the road.

After two years in the place, does the person have nothing saved? Perhaps a deposit for so and so many months of rent? if they have rented the unit for two years perhaps the lease can be converted to their name only with an additional deposit?

I realize you are in a bad spot, but I don't think you can afford to let this slide.

[HubertHeaver]

48. The lawyer can speak on your behalf without giving up any of your rights.

As has been mentioned both up and down-thread, it appears a crime has been committed. You do not want to be inadvertently sucked into it.

[Skittles]

76. there's strict confidentiality rules

and believe me, that lawyer friend has heard far, far worse....don't feel bad - you acted in good faith - your relative is the one who should be embarrassed and ashamed

[Dorian Gray]

85. How were you duped?

He signed your name. It didn't involve any duping. No shame necessary. (Even if you were duped, you shouldn't feel ashamed. The wrongdoer should carry the shame.)

I have no advice. You have to go with what you are comfortable with.

[winter is coming]

4. IMO, this relative broke trust with you the moment he forged your signature.

I'd tell the leasing office about the forged signature, and I'd check your credit report right away to be sure he hasn't done anything else in your name. I don't know how seriously the police would take a forged signature on a leasing contract; it probably depends on where you live.

[ripcord]

5. I think it comes down to a simple fact

You can't trust him anymore, if you can't trust him you don't know what he might try to pull next.

[DetlefK]

6. Forging a signature is an unforgivable breach of trust.

You better sort this out quickly and with all legal means.

If they don't have a problem forging a signature for this rent and don't have a problem using kids for emotional blackmail, will they stop at this?
Or will they go on with it?
Maybe forging your signature for something else next time?

You are not responsible for the consequences if he decides to break the law and cheat on the family.
If he knew, that he's doing what's right, why didn't he first try to talk you into signing and use the forging as plan B?




The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb.

[boston bean]

7. If you were going to sign it for one more year anyhow,

can you let this go?

I know it feels awfully hinky, but people in desperate situations do desperate things. He is family, and I think that maybe you can get this straightened out next year, no?

He should't be doing this, but I think if I was going to sign any ways, I would make a big stink about it personally, but not involve the authorities.

[ejpoeta]

78. i have been screwed over by plenty of people in my life.

It seems simple enough. Just let it go. Deal with it next year. But forging the signature is worse than just using pressure and manipulation. This is a step further. Not even asking for the signature. You are at the point where you need to nip it in the bud. I agree that the person should be given the opportunity to make it right before involving the authorities. I understand people in a tough situation, but it just seems this situation is getting progressively worse. "Family" doesn't mean you need to be a doormat. Waiting another year just will make it worse. And harder because the OP let it go. See how hard it was the second year to say no.... well you breached that wall once, now it is harder to say no. Now not even bothering to ask.... just forging a signature.... another wall breached.... letting it go is implicit approval.

[Nay]

83. I agree with ejpoeta. This relative is seeing just exactly what he can get away with, and

next time it may be something very criminal, like stealing a credit card and forging your signature to buy things. Or forging it for some other reason. Now is the time to stop this cold. If you continue to give in, I would bet that he will be emboldened to do even worse. Go get a lawyer, at the very least, and haul this relative into his office and have the lawyer work him over.

[Gman]

8. What a mess, and what a kind, wonderful and thoughtful person you are

that being said, they are taking complete advantage of you and manipulating you beyond description. Why is it you are the ONLY one that has the credit to do this including the person you're signing for after a full year he/she has had to establish a good record of their own? It is NOT your responsibility just because you're the responsible one. Your relatives act like you have been given some kind of gift that you must share. They are taking full advantage of you and need to realize you worked for what you have and they should too. You seem to be more worried about the kids than the person you're signing for. What kind of an example are YOU setting for these kids?

[peace13]

9. I am so sorry for your pain!

There are givers and takers. It is pretty clear that you have given this person plenty. Now it is time for your relative to step up and take responsibility for these actions. This person seems to believe that what's his is his and what's yours is his. It starts here but ends where? You have to protect yourself. As far as the kids go, it is the middle of May, if the school year ends in four weeks , I think they may be able to eek it out!

You have given and supported and put your security on line. By signing this document without your consent this person shows no regard for you or your safety. You have to put yourself first. You need to protect yourself. It's OK to do that.

[jberryhill]

10. How would this affect the kids?

I doubt a first offense of forging a name on a lease, with no priors or other charges, would result in a whole lot other than a suspended sentence and someone unlikely to abuse your trust again.

[HappyMe]

11. Eesh! You were repaid for your

kindness by being taken advantage of.

I would call the leasing office. If they are willing to do this, and use the kids as a shield, who knows what they would do next.
Kids or no kids, that is fraud. You really shouldn't allow yourself to get roped into that.

Are the relatives that are telling you to not press charges willing to take them in.

[unapatriciated]

12. You signed it for two years without problems?

Did they pay their rent on time? It is a big risk to sign or co-sign for a relative or a friend, but we all help family when we can. If they have always paid their rent on time I would not turn them into the police nor tell the landlord. What I would do is inform the landlord in writing that this will be the last renewal you sign. This will insure it not happening again.
What your relative did was wrong but they we also between a rock and a hard spot, wanting to keep a roof over their childrens head. I don't think filing charges nor getting his family kicked to the street is the best thing to do. If he has a habit of not paying his rent on time than you do need to protect your credit. Involving the police should not be needed a simple letter to the managment informing them that you did not sign the renewal should be enough to protect your credit.

Please rethink your last paragrah, it comes across like a rw talking point.

[panAmerican]

22. He has always paid the rent on-time or a week early

So, yes, he has been a good tenant.

Re my last paragraph - not trying to sound rw at all. I already knew that they would want to have another child, because he has all girls and many families in our culture keep trying until they have at least one boy. This is not an anchor baby situation, because we brought him and his entire family here, not just legally, but with a green card for everybody. The fact that the boy is American-born is icing on the cake.

The youngest kid is 14 now, so his wife has been on birth control for years, and the excuse was that she left her birth control back in our home country. Well, they lived here for over a year before deciding to get pregnant. They've had medical care since being here, so she could have gotten BC here.

Perhaps I read too much into it, and anger is clouding my judgement but it just seems all to convenient for me.

[Yo_Mama]

42. I like the idea of writing to the landlord to notify them that you will not be signing another lease

But I would still talk to the lawyer.

If they have been paying the rent for two years on time or early, the family may well be able to pick up the lease on their own. That's a good tenant, and landlords like to keep them.

[JoePhilly]

13. You don't give up your right to take legal action later by not taking legal action now.

All else being equal ...

1) Confront the relative and tell them that by signing your name to that renewal, they broke the law.
2) Because they did this behind your back, placing you at financial risk, you can no longer trust them.
3) Inform them that when this lease expires, you will not co-sign another renewal. They will need to find some one else.
4) Inform them that if they use your name to renew this lease, or use your information for any other purpose, you will call the police and have them arrested, and you will press charges.

This approach maintains your legal rights and gives the relative time to find other arrangements (which protects the kids at least for the time being).

[pipi_k]

14. Give him a chance to

right the wrong.

Tell him you know he forged your signature and that he either comes clean with the proper people and straightens it out, or you take matters into your own hand and contact the police. Or a lawyer.

As far as being pressured by family, hopefully this will be good enough reason for you to be able to say NO to any future requests of this type, from anyone.

I have excellent credit and I have already informed my kids that I will never co-sign for anything. Never. If they need money and I have it, I'll give it to them. I've loaned money to my daughter in the past and never been repaid, so in the future whatever I give is considered a gift.

But I will never never never co-sign for anyone.

Ever.

[jberryhill]

24. "But I will never never never co-sign for anyone"

The one exception to that is if, an only if, I would be otherwise willing to be liable for the full consequences of default or whatever.

[pipi_k]

33. Yep...

I guess a lot of people go into that situation believing that the person they co-signed for will honor the debt.

In many cases, not even a bank, with a ton of money, will take a chance on people with bad credit.

Once upon a time I had pretty bad credit too, and it took a long time for me to fix it. Nobody wanted to co-sign for a car I wanted. I'm glad they didn't. It would only have succeeded in enabling me to continue being a credit risk. I had to take responsibility and fix it up myself, even if it meant not having some things I wanted or needed.

[Nine]

15. Is any other relative willing to co-sign right away?

I guess if you want to be merciful, tell the rest of the family that it is someone else's turn to co-sign, and give them 48 hours to do so. If someone else will do this, the leasing office probably doesn't need to know that the first lease was a forgery. They can probably just tear up the first lease once they have the new one. If no one else if willing to co-sign, tell the leasing office the truth.

[a kennedy]

16. D*mn......

just offering comfort.

[panAmerican]

38. Thanks :) I appreciate the hug

[treestar]

18. Those charges probably aren't enough to have the kids taken away

It would likely be a misdemeanor. There might be a problem with deportation - they deport people with criminal convictions and people with criminal convictions can't become citizens. So you'd probably feel better leaving the police and charges out of it, even though he needs the discipline involved.

Co-signing is nearly always a bad idea. The person who needs the co-signer should do without the thing they need a co-signer for (find cheaper housing, don't buy the car, etc.)

[Old Codger]

19. I have found

Through the years that in the end no good deed goes unpunished....the more you help some people the more they resent you for it and continue to take advantage of you...

[Dash87]

31. I have seen the same thing done to others time and time again as well.

Some people see helping them as a weakness, and an open invitation to exploit
you (and test just how much you will really bend your will to them).

I'm not the one with the problem for being cautious if others. I have just learned to be untrusting because of what I've seen happen to others around me, as well as some of my own experiences.

[In_The_Wind]

35. Sigh, too true.

[Ilsa]

21. You shouldn't subject yourself, your body, the the rest of your

family to the stress created by him. Don't put up with him any longer. You're enabling his manipulation of kind people. It will only get worse. The manipulation includes him claiming that if he doesn't get what he wants, the consequences will be exceptionally painful to wife and kids. This is the guilt trip he is laying on you. Don't fall for it. I've seen it before.

If the relatives complain, invite them to take care of him.

BTW, I suspect the school would let the kids finish the year. Someone will have to take them to school from their new location if they were riding a bus previously. The school probably doesn't need to be notified of an address change with only a few weeks left of school, as long as they can call the parents on their cell phones.

As far as the new baby is concerned, the guy can pack up and move without his wife's help since she is recovering from pregnancy and childbirth. Maybe if you make this hard on him, he won't pull this crap again.

I know from personal experience that if you allow family to get away with this crap, they will continue it, sometimes on your kids, and it will cost more.

[winter is coming]

58. +1000. Manipulators don't stop themselves. You have to set and enforce boundaries.

You can't appeal to their "better nature" because they fundamentally believe that whatever they can squeeze out of others is their due. And when they eventually run up against a situation they can't talk themselves out of, the fault will always be someone else's, never theirs.

[Ilsa]

25. Be sure you run a credit report on yourself

to make certain nothing else is going on, like him forging a co-signing for other debt.

[HappyMe]

27. Good idea.

[onecent]

26. I believe you should definitely confront this fool. People do not

realize that co-signing for anyone (even your own children) is EXTREMELY UNWISE. I told my 3 children I would NEVER EVER C0-sign and I never did. They had to get those things by themselves....especially in this day an age when the older teens are feeling so entitled, and will milk mom and dad to the max.

People - NEVER CO SIGN ever. If possible I would rather give them a couple of hundred to help with a down payment on a vehicle, or something. but never ever co-sign. It will go against your credit.

Never could figure out until later years why my father said, "My MOST IMPORTANT ASSET IS MY CREDIT". TOOK me awhile to figure that out. Very difficult to prosper in these years without good credit.

Good luck

[demwing]

79. there *are* more important things

Than maintaining a good credit score

[Laelth]

89. Your handle is an apt description of the value of your advice, imho. n/t

-Laelth

[ThomThom]

28. contact the owner of the property and find out what is going on

maybe it has gone month to month with no lease renewal needed
Are they paying the rent on time? If not your credit is being messed up. If not the owner will evict them and they will be living with you or on the street. Do you want that? Tell them to look into public assistance.
If they are paying on time transfer it to into their name and let them pull their own weight.

[jeff47]

29. Not calling the police now does not tie your hands later

I'm afraid that if I forgive him, and he pulls the same stunt again next year, I won't be able to go to the police. They might say to me that I kept silent for a year and dismiss it as a family spat.

This part is not true.

You have the option of going to the police up until the statute of limitations runs out. At that point you can go to the police, they just can't do anything about it. So if you let him live there for another year and he tries the same thing again next year, you still have the option of going to the police.

Let him know you are pissed. Let him know you will not co-sign anything for him again. And let him know that the only thing keeping him out of a huge legal mess is your goodwill - and that goodwill will disappear if he does this again.

[vanlassie]

30. Teach him what consequences are. His children

need to know. The 14 year old needs to know. Don't enable this fool any more. The example is being set for the kids right now. If you don't think the kids are aware of these values he is demonstrating yet, well they will. Soon. Do the right thing.

[DebJ]

32. If he has lived there for two years and paid the rent on time,

do they even NEED a co-signer, or just prefer to have one?

[Egalitarian Thug]

34. How has this hurt you? Have there been any unauthorized purchases or credit lines opened

in your name? Is the rent paid?

I'm not reading enough detail to to see any justification for the level of retribution you are considering. You realize that bringing in the legal process will ruin the rest of your relative's life and that will definitely effect the kids as well, don't you? Once you're in the American system, you're in for life.

[pnwmom]

55. It could keep him or her from getting his own credit if needed

since it would appear on credit reports as a regular obligation s/he was responsible for paying.

In any case, s/he wouldn't be ruining anyone else's life -- the person who forged the signature is responsible for his own actions.

[Egalitarian Thug]

57. Thanks for answering a question not asked for the person who was.

Do authoritarians ever stop and ask themselves just how things ever got this fucked up?

[Ruby the Liberal]

66. Er, she makes a good point

His lease obligation goes to the debt ratio.

[panAmerican]

36. Here's the back story

The guy is my paternal half-brother, but I never treated him as "less than" any full-blooded sibling. He has been an excellent tenant the last 2 years, which he brought up in his defense. He apologized and said he won't do it again. My husband doesn't believe he'll do it again, because my brother has now been exposed to the whole family for what he really is. Still my Mom's twin sister, and my Mom's brother (no blood relation to him) say forgive him, and let the signature stand for just one more year.

Over the last 12-15 years, I spent tens of thousands of dollars on him, which I have not done for any my full-blooded siblings: money to start a little merchant business; more after it was ransacked; more again for a taxi business; tuition for his kids; rent assistance, etc. I even paid for his mother to have life-saving surgery, after his brothers declined to contribute. All this money is over and above what our father and my mother paid to the State Dept to legally immigrate his family here.

After they came here, I found out that they were not living as badly as he claimed. There were times I bought things on credit so I could send them my cash. Up until literally 3 years ago, I was making a very modest income, so this wasn't "extra money" I didn't need for myself.

At age 16, 8 years ago, his oldest daughter left home. She used to call and tell me that she had to get underwear and otherwise share clothes with a cousin. Imagine my surprise when she arrives in the US with a Blackberry (birthday gift from an uncle), perfume, makeup, jewelry, etc. Imagine my further surprise to learn that she been taking dance classes, going out to restaurants, etc.

There's some political/social instability, and kidnapping is common; so it was believable when my brother called to tell me about gangs roaming his neighborhood, robbing people, etc. So instead of leaving his wife and girls back home defenseless without a man in the house, I thought it was worth the additional expense and sacrifice to bring everybody to come at once. I even talked to my husband about adding a wing to the house so that they could live with us.

My brother also used to talk about his wife's side of the family being indifferent to him and the kids, and come to find out these aunts used to visit to those kinds and bring gifts from the US! I didn't even know those aunts were in the US, much less in the same state!

At one point, I had put him in charge of distributing money I was sending for both my Mom's side and our Dad's side of the family. But finally someone had the courage to say, please don't do that anymore, even if it means receiving less money. He was abusing his position as my brother and therefore my representative. He routinely manipulated those people into lending him their money, even though I always sent more money from him than for anyone else.

I could go on with more examples, but you get the drift: I've been played for a major fool, and now I am raging. This is why, despite the risk of him getting arrested, his family evicted, and the kids separated, I feel I can't let this one slide.

[renate]

41. I know you love him but... he's a liar and at least one of his kids is a liar

They know you're a kind-hearted person and they are blatantly taking advantage of you. You're treating them like family; they are not treating you like family. You're obviously a sweetheart and I admire your generosity and patience; I am a big believer in kindness but not in being a doormat or sucker.

It's a difficult situation and I have no idea what I would do if I were in your shoes, but as painful as it must be it's probably a good thing that you're seeing him for the manipulator he is. He may very well genuinely love you even while he's taking advantage of your kindness, but I get the feeling that he also sees you very much as a credit card.

I would suggest telling the rest of the family that they have a little time to step up and chip in with his support because you are done. (That notice would also, importantly, more evenly distribute the responsibility for whatever happens to him and his family so that you aren't the only one blamed.) That would also give the kids a chance to finish the school year. Even if it's true that he would get arrested, his family would be evicted, and his kids separated--whatever happens to his family as a result of the decision you might make, he's the one who did it to them, not you. It's not your responsibility to cover for his bad behavior for the rest of his life. Of course you hate the possibility of all these bad things happening to them, but even if it's true that your silence would prevent those things, it's his fault, not yours.

He's a liar. Whatever you decide to do about this particular situation, this pattern of lying to you and taking your money will not end until you end it.

Good luck. It's not fair that your good-heartedness has resulted in this situation and I'm sorry you're having to deal with this stress.

Edited to add: I just reread your original post and you mention that the lease is over at the end of the month, but if both first and last month's rent was paid when they first moved in, wouldn't they have that extra month to leave even if the lease that he forged your signature on is voided? So maybe that particular worry about the kids can be taken care of. Also, it occurred to me that if your name is on that lease as a co-signer, what's to keep him from deciding that paying rent is just too difficult and it's easier to let you take care of it? Letting his forgery slide puts you at risk--it's not just infuriating, it's a real liability for you. In a way, I don't see how you have a choice, as difficult as it will be. Here's another because this whole situation sucks.

[Yo_Mama]

45. The lawyer

This is a pattern - not one unique situation. You can't trust this person, and you need to disengage, and you need to be a little harsh with the rest of your family who is giving you hell over it. They can either get together and help themselves, or they can slink off into the darkness in shame.

You don't have to disengage with a legal volley. Just talk to the lawyer to get the local legal perspective, then talk to this guy and tell him that's it, it's over, and then at a minimum notify the landlord in writing now that you will not be cosigning again.

But I would strongly consider making him pick up the lease on his own now, which I believe they can do.

[Nye Bevan]

37. Go to a lawyer. Not your friend, somebody who doesn't know you.

Tell him or her the whole story. There are all sorts of issues here that DUers are not qualified to opine upon. The lawyer's fee will be one of the best investments you have ever made.

[LiberalEsto]

69. Call your county Bar Association's Lawyer Referral Service

They charge around $40-$50 for a 45-minute consultation. We've done this in a couple of situations and found it helpful.

[Dawson Leery]

39. Protect yourself.

His family is not your problem.

[librechik]

43. you don't have a choice on whether charges are brought or not. If the cops think it's fraud

they will be obliged to bring charges.

But it's up to you whether to get the cops involved or not.
I had to kick a close relative to the curb recently--he pocketed a large amount of money he "found" in my hubby's wallet. We had given this person many chances and had tried to help him, but that was over the line. He had to be erased from our lives for the sake of our safety. But I didn't have enough evidence to call the cops. Just strong suspicion.

The cops may not want to touch it, as it may be a civil issue rather than a criminal one. I think getting the advice of a lawyer is essential at this point, since so much is on the line. You might have to be prepared to shelter the mother and kids, while flushing the guilty one.

[Le Taz Hot]

44. Last winter I had roughly the same experience

with a relative, who my 91-year-old aunt took in (they were homeless), ended up stealing thousands from her. She's on a VERY limited income. Turns out other relatives knew about a forged check incident and didn't tell me about it (I'm her caregiver). Because of that the relative was able to further victimize my aunt. My point is that, as others have said, if nothing is done, there will be more victims and probably not just yourself. People like that rarely victimize just one person.

[dairydog91]

46. Get a lawyer. Now. Later, you can make a decision about the police.

Falsely making you into a party to a contract is not cute or harmless behavior. It's nasty, exploitative, antisocial behavior. Any time you are falsely made a party to a contract you need to contact a lawyer IMMEDIATELY. I've no idea about how contract/rental law works in your state, but the law often is much kinder to the interests of people who immediately tackle legal problems than it is to people who dither.

[Poll_Blind]

47. PLEASE, I BEG YOU: Get a lawyer to help advise you. Do the following RIGHT now:

Call 3-5 law offices in your area to see which ones will give you a free or cheap consultation on the matter. Find the law office which you personally feel is the best fit. Then proceed to allow them to advise you on what matters are in your best interests to pursue next.

You have to understand there may be legal issues which you are not aware of which you need an expert to advise you about in order to protect yourself.

Not just from the things you know about but from potential situations you don't want taking you by surprise. Your knowledge of his signing your name without your permission, for instance, may be something you are legally required to report.

A lawyer will help protect you. You need that protection right now. Not tomorrow, not next week. It's Monday. Get a lawyer you're comfortable with, and who is affordable, by Thursday.

Go!

PB

[Drew Richards]

49. MY Dear PanAmerican It's very simple and the best way to keep things diffused...

Let it go for the moment but...

YOU Personally head on down to the Leasing agency with an attorney/notary or a regular notary...and inform them that you are NOT renewing,

Inform them that you wish to be notified if your signature mysteriously reappears on the subsequent lease and inform them you will not be held liable.

Put all of that on a piece of paper and have them sign this that they have been notified and get it notarized...

Inform him he should use that signature to compare but either way your name better not appear on another lease...

Have him then xerox 3 copies...

Original stays with you...

One copy for him
One copy for you
and One copy for your lovely relative...let him know if he dares do this again...he is the one going to jail for forgery.

Oh and don't forget to smile at him...

[demwing]

82. best answer

Thanks

[Dorian Gray]

86. This is the best answer I have read on this forum

It's protecting yourself from abusing your kindness.

[panAmerican]

50. Went to Leasing Ofc; calling attorney next

Just came back from the leasing office!

And the support from DU also propped up my backbone, so I thank you all. But, I asked my husband and one of my sisters to go with me, so that I wouldn't cave again.

At first, I didn't tell the leasing agent outright that he had forged my signature. I told her that I did this 2 years ago as a favor, and now I want out because my brother and I are estranged. So she calls the main office to request a renewal form for me to use to decline for June 1st, and the woman tells her the renewal has already been processed. Then I say that "it's not my signature, and I didn't authorize anyone to sign for me."

The main office faxed her a copy of the renewal, and on the bottom, I wrote "I am not interested in renewing, and the above is not my signature"; I signed it and faxed it back. The agent said I don't have any further liability, and that in the event of an eviction, it won't be reported on my credit or public record. The main office also faxed a ledger confirming that my brother and his wife have made timely payments, so I am in the clear there as well. As I said initially, they are mainly interested in being paid and on time.

My sister got mad at me for asking if payment history would count towards our brother being approved on his own, but I needed to know that for my own piece of mind. My brother may be an a$$hole, but my nieces are good girls and good students, and I don't want to punish them along with him.

Now... going to call my lawyer friend to see what the next steps should be.

[boston bean]

54. blech... i couldn't do this to someone I loved.

You act like he murdered someone.

Goodness gracious, you were going to sign for another year any how. I hope the karma don't come back to bite you.

[Common Sense Party]

60. She was going to sign again--UNTIL she found out that he committed FRAUD by FORGERY.

Yes, she was correct to tell the leasing office. She would be completely liable for any damages, any failure to pay, etc., had she just pretended nothing happened. The brother just showed he can't be trusted by committing a crime.

You are wrong. She did right.

[boston bean]

61. I'm not going to argue with anyone about it, just give my opinion.

If it were I and I cared so much about his children, I wouldn't be going putting doubt in the minds of the people that rent him a property, possibly putting that in jeopardy.

I just wouldn't do it, especially if I was going to sign for another year anyhow. I would have spoken with him about it, and if I were concerned about proceeding years, I would have made it clear then, with an affadavit, possibly, if needed.

[Common Sense Party]

63. Fine, and you are entitled to your opinion.

My opinion is that she did the right thing by pointing this out. She could have been on the hook financially for any number of things; this could have ruined her credit and her financial situation. I'm all for helping family members and showing generosity when possible--but when someone abuses that generosity and willingly breaks trust, and I stand to suffer if they do something stupid--then it's time to let them stand on their own two feet.

No one should co-sign for anyone else's lease, loan or credit. It's just a bad, bad idea. I will not do that for my children. I definitely wouldn't do it for a relative with tenuous ties to me.

[panAmerican]

70. My help has been there for the asking for nearly 15 years

Yes, there was an outside chance I might have renewed, but last year I told him I would not sign up for a 3rd year. His wife and adult daughter said they would sign with him. In the event that wasn't sufficient, my uncle said he'd help. Instead his wife got pregnant and just started working again, his daughter is moving on with her own life, and my uncle says he can't help anymore.

I was there for him all these years, even forgave when he borrowed, or outright TOOK money that I gave him to distribute to other people. You're right that nobody died, but this is the proverbial straw.

[Dorian Gray]

88. Really?

He forged her signature. That sort of sucks. He obviously proved that he shouldn't be trusted to co-sign a loan or lease for.

[Drew Richards]

56. Unfortunately the lawyer will tell you what I already said

Last edited Mon May 13, 2013, 08:42 PM - Edit history (1)

I have been through the same thing with an estranged brother that did this on both an apartment and a car...

My lawyer had me go back with him and get a notarized affidavit that they acknowledged that I will not be re-signing a lease and that I would not be held liable for any fees or damages.

Having them just tell you that they wont will not hold up in a court of law, but a notarized affidavit does wonders.

Drew.

[HappyMe]

62. You did the right thing.

[haele]

64. If he's been there for two years and has been a good tenant, they'll probably let him stay.

Property management/leasing agents, et all don't like to evict and risk not having revenue on that property for up to six/eight months during the eviction process, clean-up, and process of getting new tenants.
It's getting approved the first lease that's usually the hardest part of the rental process. But I am curious - is there a legal reason why a green-card holder needs to have a co-signature of a citizen for renting a place to live?
Even in immigrant hell states like AZ and AL, if he's there legally with papers and has shown some sort of employment/ability to make money, he shouldn't need a co-signer for a lease other than perhaps to establish he is who he says he is.

I agree with those who advised you to get a lawyer; if he forged a signature rather than worked with you and the leasing agent to see if he could get around a co-sign issue after two years, then there's a stronger potential for legal problems further down the line.
Also, check your credit.

He forged your name for financial advantage - to keep his lease. If he has access to your social security number or driver's license, he might have felt you "wouldn't mind" if he helped his financial situation with credit cards or small payday loans in your name. If the lease situation was the first time he felt he needed to do this, you're okay and he's learned a lesson. But if it wasn't, you might be in trouble and not know it.
Not saying he's a bad guy, but it seems from your story that when he's feeling desperate, he exhibits poor judgment and boundary awareness. And those weaknesses are not an acceptable "trait" in most cultures, even if he might have been a coddled boy baby back in the old country.

Haele

[blueamy66]

81. If you don't have any further liability, why the need for further steps?

You're done. You're name is off of the lease.

Wish your brother well and don't ever offer financial aid again.

[Yo_Mama]

84. Thanks for the update

You did the right thing, it will probably work out just fine for your brother and his family, and you couldn't have let this slide.

[Dorian Gray]

87. This is probably

the extent to which you need to act. Be proud of yourself for standing up for yourself.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

51. Contact a lawyer. It would be worth the fee to have all your options set out for you

and all the legal ramifications explained. The personal consequences are for you to decide but it would be good to know what else can happen to your relative and his children. You might want to consider suing him instead of filing criminal charges, but I'd be awfully tempted to call the police and let the process run its course. There may be options for the kids short of being taken away or having to move - although maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing, considering their dad isn't such a great role model.

Anyhow, good luck. But don't let this guy take any more advantage of you.

[CountAllVotes]

52. check your credit

You can do that right now online via annualcreditreport.com

Make sure to select Experian as some of the other ones available will not give you an online report.

I just did this on myself today in fact.

Tried yesterday and selected Equifax I believe it was and they wanted you to put it in writing, etc. etc. etc.

It shows what has been going on with your credit 6 mos. BACK. Nothing since about 6 mos. ago though.

Best of luck and I don't like the idea of ANYONE forging MY signature! That is plain BAD in my book!

[panAmerican]

73. ScoreWatch and Equifax products

I have FICO's Scorewatch & an Equifax product. Nothing is untoward with my credit, thank God.

[Warpy]

53. That is a tough one, since the whole family is flaky

and you're the only stable one.

Tell him that he's got a week to fess up to the landlord and get another co signer or you're going to the landlord and the cops, yourself.

Then do it. Landlord, first. Cops only if necessary. Oh, and check your credit. Now.

Chances are that if he's a good tenant and has rarely been late with the rent, the landlord will allow him to sign in his own name. His credit repair has to start somewhere.

Being legally obligated for another year of his rent is just something you want to avoid, if possible.

Keeping this guy on your own back isn't doing him much good. He's got to grow up sometime and now seems like the time.

Of course, you might find yourself taking in a couple of kids if it all goes pear shaped, but o bla di.

[Ruby the Liberal]

67. "His credit repair has to start somewhere" <~~ THIS

[hunter]

59. Fortunately my signature is worth nothing.

Friends and relatives can sleep on the sofa if they like, subject to the dogs' approval.

[Ruby the Liberal]

65. Please call a lawyer immediately.

If no one else is stepping up to help them (but has the time to pressure you about it), then they won't be stepping up to help YOU if he hoses your credit.

I am begging you - protect your immediate family first. If you want to help, give no strings attached cash gifts, but get your name OFF of that lease. One bad incident and you could be screwed.

[Drew Richards]

68. There is one more thing wanted to mention

After my brother started taking responsibility for himself he got a bank secured credit card and paid it off regularly. After only a year he was able to get an unsecured card and start rebuiling his life. But he has to do it himself it doesnt help if they know you will pay any late bills.

[Hekate]

71. Lawyer

Good luck with this deadbeat.

[panAmerican]

72. Lawyer says this is enough

No need to escalate to police, just need written acknowledgement from the leasing office that I'll be taken off.

[Hekate]

74. Good. I hope it all works out well for you.

At some point everyone has to grow up, and the longer they can depend on someone else to bail them out, the longer it will take them to take responsibility for themselves.

You have to protect your own household first -- yourself, your credit, your kids, and the roof over their heads. From that can flow generosity, but if generosity is abused, cut it off.

Last summer I had to tell a close relative "No" after too many unpaid debts (to me and my husband) over a lifetime, too many crises of her own making, and ultimately too much assumption that I owed it to her but she owed me no gratitude. She went ballistic. How dared I. Strangely enough, she has managed to survive another year, living from crisis to crisis much as she always has.

This doesn't mean I don't love her, but I am letting her know she has to take responsibility for her own life. Her attitude to me still sucks, but on reflection it always has.

Best wishes,

Hekate

[GeorgeGist]

75. If he's been paying rent, he doesn't need you to consign.

[Th1onein]

77. FFS, don't call the damned police!

This is your FAMILY, whether you like them or not; whether they did something that you abhor or not. NEVER call the police into anything involving your family, except when it comes to life and death situations. NEVER.

Let me know that you know what they did. And, you can always call the landlord and let them know that you did not sign the lease and that they had no permission from you to sign your name to the lease. Send a certified letter, if you have to. But don't get the police involved. They are not your friends, and it is always best to leave them out of things.

[Marrah_G]

80. Why don't you talk to him about it

I suggest you do that before you do something that will effect multiple lives and that you may end up regretting later on.