Gun violence is NOT NORMAL

[Uzair]

One of, if not THE, biggest problems with the gun culture is that people are used to gun violence as if it's just a part of every day life. You turn on the news in the morning and you hear about the latest 7 or 10 or 15 people killed the night before by guns and you shrug. Usually it's poor minorities in gang ridden areas. Racism plays a large part in the apathy towards gun violence.

Then there's the children killing each other, day in and day out. And again, you shrug. Not MY children. Irresponsible parents, all that. Can't ever happen to YOU, right? (Which, of course, is exactly what all those parents who lose their children to guns thought as well.)

People committing suicide with guns? Meh. Shrug. Just the way things are, right? They would've killed themselves in some other way, can't really blame the gun, right? (This, of course, is patently false. There are many people who may attempt suicide some other way, fail, and then get the help they need before it turns tragic.)

IT IS NOT NORMAL TO HAVE THIS LEVEL OF GUN VIOLENCE.

In major cities in Europe, cities comparable in population size and density, they can go weeks, even months, without a single shooting. Cities, mind you, that DO have gangs, and drugs, and poverty, and all the other social ills that come with a big city.

Think about that for a second. You turn on the news in the morning and the top story is not how many people were killed by guns the night before. I think people have become so desensitized to gun violence that it's to the point that even a minor reduction in this unbelievably high gun violence rate seems like enough is being done, when the reality is that the lax gun laws and the second amendment are destroying the very fabric of society.

It's time to get real about this issue. The NRA talking points have had their day. The facts are on OUR side, not theirs.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. What are you, some kind of commie?

Or something?

USA, USA, USA we are number one!

(For the record, I agree...it's not normal)

[el_bryanto]

2. I am upset that some of the recent gun laws went down largely to defeat

particularly the bits about limiting magazine size and about the national registrar - but I am not sure what percentage of our gun violence is the fault of readily available guns and what part is due to our national identity. Certainly there are nations that have comparable amounts of guns, but not nearly the violence we have.

On the other hand, nations that do have similar problems with integrating immigrant communities and a poor underclass that sees not much future, usually do restrict gun availability.

Bryant

[cali]

3. this op has been written dozens of times over the last couple of months and

sorry, but it's just bloviating. You offer nothing new at all.

Do you actually think you're enlightening anyone here? That we haven't thought about this- and for more than a second.

Saying "It's time to get real about this issue" is so fucking pointless. What the hell do you think people have been trying to do.

[otohara]

81. A Whole Couple Months?

that's super outrageous.

[rrneck]

4. ...

[baldguy]

5. If 30,000 is a problem, having 24,000 is not a solution.

Especially when other countries can count their gun deaths on one hand.

[rrneck]

13. Spoken like a true acolyte.

But others are still better than you. Some have disregarded guns in favor of demonizing bullets. I'm expecting the anti primer coalition to show up any day now.

Tunnel vision is a problem in many fundamentalist faiths.

[baldguy]

14. Coming from one of the NRA's parrot's, that's a compliment.

Still doesn't change the truth of the OP, or the fact that you're trying to marginalize the insane number of innocent people being unnecessarily killed in connection with your favorite hobby.

People like you who repeatedly say "There's nothing that can be done about this problem", are part of the problem.

[oneshooter]

16. Are you so sure all of them are"innocent"?

[baldguy]

29. You mean "gang bangers" like Trayvon Martin?

[baldguy]

38. Right. He deserved to die for the crime of being a teenager.

Which white supremacist cesspool did you get that pic from?

[TnDem]

47. From here

How about the Orlando Weekly?

It was From Trayvon Martin's Facebook page

[DanTex]

40. ...

[etherealtruth]

90. Definite "gang-banger"

It is as much proof as the poster upstream offered

[Hoyt]

59. There are tens of thousands of photos of fat white guys in intimidating posses with their guns

and sometimes confederate flags.

[Bjorn Against]

84. Wow, what a shocking revelation, a teenager gave the middle finger

I could post thousands of pictures of white kids giving the middle finger as well, would you also suggest those pictures are evidence that those kids may have deserved to be shot as well?

[Cali_Democrat]

91. Anyone who flips off a camera is a gang banger?

[rrneck]

18. Ah. I'm the "other".

It must be difficult, staying on fire for your hate of an inanimate object. People tend to fear what they don't understand. Be careful, don't let that evil gungeoneer pollute your beautiful mind with heresies.



I was sinking deep in sin...

Wheeeeeeeeeee....!

[baldguy]

31. You like being outside looking in, thinking of America as a shooting gallery.

Sorry, but you're part of this country whether you like it or not. Having fewer guns in circulation is better for everyone: fewer violent crimes, fewer murders, fewer suicides. Better for everyone all around.

And being that as a gun owner you're more susceptible to gun violence than normal people, having fewer guns around would be better for you too.

[rrneck]

37. Sorry

I don't respond to proslytizing any more than to evangelizing. And I'm not too thrilled with arrogant gambling with peoples lives either.

And yes, I do prefer to stay outside the bubble of blinkered orthodoxy. Looking in can be more fun than television. Although TV does occasionally luck into actual useful information.

And as for your claims: Prove it.

[beevul]

85. Uh...most gun owners are normal people.

It is however, noteworthy, to see you show that you think otherwise.

[LanternWaste]

41. And that very dogma is at work in the right-wing political action committee known as the NRA...

"Tunnel vision is a problem in many fundamentalist faiths..."
And that very dogma is at work in the right-wing political action committee known as the NRA who use it to minimize the reduction of violence by orders of magnitude better than the US does...

"Tunnel vision is a problem in many fundamentalist faiths."
And quite often, that indictment is made by the very people who are indeed, guilty of it. Not saying that you are.... most certainly not. However, I imagine you look pretty rad in a purple suit asking your congregation for tithe... I mean, political contributions.

[rrneck]

78. Yes. It's a two way street

and the NRA has a helluva business model.

A lot of the problem is that both sides hang a lot of bullshit on a very few facts. That's how reality gets skewed.

And indeed, I used to be a scary good salesman. I know how it works. There are no perfect angels on either side of the issue, and the devils among us make money off it.

[Dpm12]

6. Yeah, there's just really

nothing we can do.

[NYC_SKP]

7. This is why I maintain that it's a deep and serious societal problem, not a gun problem.

I support stronger gun legislation, I've said it over and over, but the REAL problem is deeper than that.

The shocking number of suicides by gun are just proof of the sickness in our society.

Treat the sickness. Find a cure.

[baldguy]

15. Not true.

States with higher rates of gun ownership have higher rates of gun deaths.



And States With Loose Gun Laws Have Higher Rates Of Gun Violence also

[TnDem]

25. Exactly...

Yet peeps refuse to agree that this is true and why..

We know why, but it cannot be spoken without being called names such as "racist"..

[LanternWaste]

43. Illustrate the courage of your convictions...

"We know why, but it cannot be spoken without being called names such as "racist"...."

Tell us why and illustrate the courage of your convictions... or simply continue to writhe melodramatically on your handmade cross, and dismiss the courage of your convictions as a mere inconvenience...

[baldguy]

36. The fallacy of the empty vessel.

Fewer people means fewer gun deaths. An empty field has the fewest of all.

But, please tell us: just where do the guns used in KC and St Loius crimes come from? Hmmmm....?

[beevul]

88. Rates. The measure by which...

Rates. The measure by which a small town with gun violence numbers which can be counted on one hand, has a higher "rate" than the murder capital of the nation.

[KittyWampus]

9. If it's not normal or desirable, why do so many people play hours of games rooted in gun violence?

[Lizzie Poppet]

10. Racism? No, not exactly.

Yes, obviously there are racists on the pro-gun side. There are racists on every side of most issues. However...

"Usually it's poor minorities in gang ridden areas. Racism plays a large part in the apathy towards gun violence."

That's not where the apathy comes in for most people. It's that so many of these homicides in "gang ridden" areas are one felon killing another felon. People are just not going to be as sympathetic when someone steeped in a violent and largely amoral subculture dies as the result of a series of spectacularly bad decisions. The color of their skin is irrelevant (at least to most people).

[marions ghost]

11. You make an important point

--we will never make any progress as long as people think it's "normal" for America to have this level of death by gun.

The epidemic of children killing children. That should get to anyone even if you don't care about gangs or the suicidal.

"Lax gun laws are destroying the very fabric of society." Absolutely true. But there is a lot of denial.

[TnDem]

12. Maybe, maybe not....

Makes no difference...Gun ownership is part of our culture and most of my Democratic neighbors owns guns, vote guns and use them as tools in rural areas...These include semi-auto shotguns and rifles.

No one ever wants to discuss places like Chicago and DC that have MASSIVE levels of gun violence and yet have gun control laws that rival parts of Europe...Why is that?

The blunt fact is that most gun crime is black-on-black urban killing...These gangbangers are NEVER, NEVER going to stop killing each other no matter what laws we pass.

And whatever laws are passed in Chicago will not fly with Democrats in rural areas because we are basically in another world where we by and large, obey the law.

[Robb]

19. Gang violence represents a tiny fraction of homicides.

Which themselves represent less than half of gun deaths.

Why are you focusing on them?

[DanTex]

20. I don't think you read the OP very carefully.

You wrote:

The blunt fact is that most gun crime is black-on-black urban killing...These gangbangers are NEVER, NEVER going to stop killing each other no matter what laws we pass.

You must have missed this part of the OP:

In major cities in Europe, cities comparable in population size and density, they can go weeks, even months, without a single shooting. Cities, mind you, that DO have gangs, and drugs, and poverty, and all the other social ills that come with a big city.

As to why some cities like Chicago and DC have high rates of gun violence despite tight gun laws, the answer is that the effectiveness of tight local gun laws is undercut by loose gun laws in other nearby states, which make it easy for illegal guns to be trafficked into cities. If DC or Chicago were located in Western Europe, their homicide rates would be much lower.

Still, you neglect to mention that neither DC nor Chicago rank highest in homicide. The highest homicide rate is in New Orleans, followed by Detroit and then St Louis.

[TnDem]

23. OK

Then ask yourself, (and please answer honestly), why that Chicago, St. Louis, New Orleans and urban places such as these have extremely high rates of gun violence...Why? You cannot blame the guns.

Why would it matter whether guns are trafficked there or not? The fact remains that you could traffic millions of guns to Clarksville, TN and the murder rate would not increase...It would not matter if my town had all the guns in the world, they would not default to a crime ridden murder situation...

Traffic these same guns to Los Angeles and see what happens.

We all know the answer, but we cannot say the truth...

[DanTex]

26. Here's what you should ask yourself.

London, England is an enormous, densely populated metropolis, with poverty, gangs, and the other social ills that go along with big cities. And yet the murder rate in London is 1.1/100,000 people.

The murder rate in Clarksville, TN is 6.0/100,000 people, almost 6 times higher than London.

Ya think maybe guns have something to do with that?

[TnDem]

28. Missing the point

Why is it that Clarksville TN can have a basically mediocre murder rate per capita and yet London has 11 times higher assault and robbery rate?...

Clarksville had 8 murders last year and 5 were urban murders..

However, (and much more importantly), most murders in Clarksville are committed by a few transplanted urban thugs from Louisville, KY who don't give a rat's ass about gun laws or any laws for that matter....Luckily, these thugs are dealt with fairly swiftly here...Detroit, Chicago, New Awlens....Not so much.

This same set of facts is indicative over every US city especially these mentioned...Ask yourself why?

Why is it that urban folks tend to kill each other right and left with one or two stolen weapons and yet rural folks can have 75 guns and they never consider the thought to rob, steal and use their weapon nefariously? It never enters their mind?...All they wish to do is protect themselves from this ongoing thuggery.

Honestly answer that question and you'll understand....However, if you honestly answer, you may be called a racist.

[DanTex]

32. No, you are missing the point.

Clarksville's murder rate is not "mediocre". By international standards, it is astronomical. That's the whole point of the OP. If England woke up one day with Clarksville's murder rate, they would be horrified. But in the US, we are so accustomed to murder that we have people like you calling a 6/100,000 murder rate "mediocre".

Yes, London has higher assault and robbery rates than Clarksville. That's because London has gangs, poverty, and the rest of the social ills associated with large cities. But, because there are very few guns in London, very few people are actually killed by the crime and violence there -- even with more violent crimes, there are less murders.

Guns make crime more deadly. More guns means more people get killed. Crimes with guns are much more lethal than crimes without guns.

[TnDem]

34. Once again, missing the point

Answer me this question....

WHY is it that urban areas generally have massively higher rates of gun violence with blacks killing other blacks than other areas that have much higher legal gun owners, (usually white)?

I have neighbors that own 75+ guns each, (Both voting Democrats by the way)..They have never been arrested, never had any issues with law enforcement and would not think of robbing or mugging anyone.

However, if you dropped ONE of his guns in an urban area, the chances of it being used in a black on black killing would be astronomical.

Honestly answer the question of why that is, and you will have 50% of the solution to America's gun violence rates.

[DanTex]

35. You're dodging the question. Why do you think that there is so little homicide it London?

London has all the problems associated with dense urban areas, and yet they have a very low homicide rate. They have drugs, gangs. And, yes, they have black people.

And yet Clarksville has a homicide rate six times higher.

Six times higher! Than London!

It's the guns. There are guns in Clarksville and not in London.

[TnDem]

39. You brought up London...

London's black population is 3.3% total...

Detroit is 82.7% Black
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/26/2622000.html

New Orleans is 60% Black
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/22/2255000.html

Chicago is 33%
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/17/1714000.html

Washington DC is 50.7%
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/11000.html

I asked a simple question....Let me repeat it for you once again and maybe you can answer.

Why is it in predominantly white rural areas, where gun ownership is extremely high and crime is very low and yet if you dropped three of those legal guns from rural areas into urban black areas, fifteen people would be killed by them in a month.

Why is that?

Answer that question and you have the answer to 50% of America's gun violence rate problems.

[DanTex]

46. Ahh, false statistics. Where would the NRA be without them?

15.6 per cent of London's population are of Black and mixed-Black descent. 13.3 per cent of Londoners are of full Black descent, with those of mixed-Black heritage comprising 2.3 per cent of the population. Black Africans account for 7.0 per cent of London's population, with 4.2 per cent as Black Caribbean and 2.1 per cent as "Other Black".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_London

So you're saying that London's homicide rate is so low because they have so few black people? Really? Black people are the reason that Clarksville, TN has 6 times more homicide than London? Not guns, but black people?!?!

[TnDem]

52. OK, let's go with that

Let's assume that it's 15%...

How does that compare to 83% like Detroit?

[DanTex]

53. LOL. Any other stats you want to fabricate? So how does it compare to Clarksville?

You brought up Clarksville, you're not going to run away from it. Still waiting for you to answer.

Why so much homicide in Clarksville, and so little in London? You really think it has nothing to do with guns?

You keep dodging, I'll keep asking!

[TnDem]

58. As will I....

[Lizzie Poppet]

56. Plano, TX: 1.9/100k (2011). London 1.5/100k (2011).

If you can cherry-pick an American city to (pointlessly) compare to London, so can I...

[DanTex]

57. LOL. Apparently even when you cherry pick you lose...

[Lizzie Poppet]

60. Missed the point, as expected.

It's a .4% difference, within each locale's year-over-year statistical variance...not that I'd expect that to mean a lot to you.

The point was that your breathless bloviating about six times the murder rate - you forgot multiple exclamation points and all-caps...bad form - represents a pointless comparison of a single factor without even a decent attempt at reducing confounding factors (just saying "they both have gangs and black people!" doesn't count...).

That you actually have some people here fooled into thinking you know fuck-all about statistical methodology is both hilarious and a bit sad.

[DanTex]

62. Not so good at math, huh.

1.9 is 26.7% greater than 1.5, not 0.4% greater. Man, the level of ignorance you come across in these gun threads is fascinating!

Anyway, it is true that these are just isolated datapoints. It's just funny that Tndem chose Clarksville for his rendition of the NRA talking point "But Chicago has more murder than (insert cherry-picked small town with no gangs and none of the social ills of a large city)", but it turns out that Clarksville, with it's "law-abiding" white gun owners, has a far higher homicide rate than the largest city in the UK, where there are very few guns.

If you're interested in peer reviewed statistical studies, here are some links. They pretty much confirm the obvious. But be careful! There's, like, math and stuff in there! If you don't understand percentages, then it's gonna be a struggle.
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/
http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/faculty/dranove/htm/dranove/coursepages/Mgmt%20469/guns.pdf
http://home.uchicago.edu/~ludwigj/papers/JPubE_guns_2006FINAL.pdf

[TnDem]

65. One last time

I am going to attempt this one last time for a straight answer from you with no sidesteps...

Why is it that voting rural Democratic gun owners can posses 75-100 guns each and never consider using them for robberies, murders, gang hits or carjackings....YET, if you dropped ONE of these weapons into the inner city, it would be involved in dozens of crimes within several years.

Why is that?

Specifically answer that question, stop dodging and tell us why that fact is what it is?

The data has proven it time and time again....The article above even states it...

Why? Guns are obviously not the issue...What is?

[DanTex]

68. You again? I thought you ran away because you couldn't answer my question!

OK, will since you are back, why do you think that Clarksville, TN has six times as much homicide as London, even though London is a huge densely populated city with gangs, drugs, and crime, and everything else that goes along with it.

Hint: it's not the black people!

[Lizzie Poppet]

69. Forgotten more math than you'll ever know.

And I'd bet $10k vs a fiver and your unwashed tighty-whities that I could destroy you in any standardized test on the subject, as well. Nevertheless, I can see why you avoid using absolute values (that is, the actual difference per 100k) and select percentage differentiation: the latter has more emotional impact on those unfamiliar with how statistics work.

I've read each of those studies (and many more). I understand them, and I deeply understand statistical methodology. That's why I so easily recognize (and am amused by) amateurs.

[DanTex]

72. LOL. Nothing like people who brag on the internet about how smart they are!

Here's the thing. There's no possible way to interpret an increase from 1.5/100K to 1.9/100K as "0.4%", which is what you claimed. I have no idea where you went to middle school, but obviously it wasn't a very good one...

I deeply understand statistical methodology

Yes, it is obvious to everyone just how deeply you understand statistical methodology.

[Lizzie Poppet]

76. And the inevitable resort to (yet more) personal insult.

You keep frantically dodging the point (that the difference between London and Plano is .4/100k, an amount within year-over-year variance for both locales). As if the entire exercise of informally comparing these municipalities on the basis of single factors (sans reduction of confounding factors) wasn't profoundly irrelevant in the first place...

Feel free to go back to pretending you have a clue about any of this. It's funny. But I can't see any use in trying to engage you any more. You're not here to look for solutions. It couldn't be more obvious.

[DanTex]

80. And it keeps getting worse.

0.4/100K is not the same thing as 0.4%, no matter how much you try to run away from this point.

But here's a more subtle point that you also don't understand. "0.4" by itself doesn't give any information about how big the difference is, and this is because the units (crimes per 100k people) are completely arbitrary. If we measured in crimes per 1M, then this would be a difference of "4". You just picked "0.4" because it's a small-looking number. The more meaningful and correct way to describe the difference is in relative terms.

For example, if my car goes 0.4 MPH faster than yours, that's no big deal. But if my snail goes 0.4 MPH faster than yours, that is a big deal. Because 0.4 MPH is much larger relative to the speed of a snail than of a car.

I know this all seems very confusing, but if you think about it for a few hours, you'll figure it out...

And when you're done with that, take a few more courses in statistics, you'll finally be at the point where you can read those epidemiological and econometric studies that I linked to above, to see how to systematically analyze data rather than write down numbers that look small in order to suit your political agenda.

[Lizzie Poppet]

86. Oooh, and bullshit amateur psychoanalysis, too!

You poor thing...now you're just flailing. I feel like I'm being an enabler, frankly...

Nothing you have posted (including the linked studies, not just your own blather) is remotely confusing to me. But if it gets you through the night to substitute ad hominems and irrelevancies (and, to be fair, at bit of spectacularly bad "analysis&quot for actual discussion, then who am I to complain? Heck, I can play the amateur psychoanalysis game, too: your anger issues and low self esteem are palpably obvious, as is your projection (courses in statistics? I've had a slew, many at grad level...have you? It sure doesn't show).

You have a nice life now, hear? I do believe we're done here.

[DanTex]

92. Wait, I thought you didn't like personal attacks!

The thing is, if you actually understood any of this stuff, your posts wouldn't be nearly as dumb as they are. Educated people say intelligent things. You keep claiming to be so smart, and yet your posts are full of elementary misunderstandings. Next time, instead saying a bunch of idiotic things and then bragging about how smart you are, why not just show how smart you are my not making errors that your average Justin Bieber fan should be able to avoid?

Grad level courses in statistics!
You?
Hey, you may not know much math, but at least you have a sense of humor!

[One_Life_To_Give]

77. Why is London's rate higher than Berlin?

One would think Germany's long culture of shooting would turn the streets into a bloodbath as well?

[Uzair]

42. And THERE IT IS, folks

From the reply above me:

Why is it that urban folks tend to kill each other right and left with one or two stolen weapons and yet rural folks can have 75 guns and they never consider the thought to rob, steal and use their weapon nefariously? It never enters their mind?...All they wish to do is protect themselves from this ongoing thuggery.

Honestly answer that question and you'll understand....However, if you honestly answer, you may be called a racist.

Just go ahead and say it out loud. It's the blacks. They're a bunch of thugs. Who cares if they kill each other?

And are we talking about assault and robbery, or are we talking about GUN VIOLENCE here? Always changing the subject. That's all you guys do.

[TnDem]

49. Wrong...

It is an accepted fact that black-on-black violence is a huge part of US gun violence...

Pew research agrees with this by overwhelming statistics:

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-violence-in-america/st_13-05-02_ss_guncrimes_05_race/

We all know it, however, it is hard to sometimes say the facts without coming across as racist, (which is the inevitable outcome when this issue is ever broached).

[Democracyinkind]

54. bingo.

[pintobean]

61. Another telling sign

that the apocalypse is here.

[LanternWaste]

48. An idiot would blame race. Someone who actually thinks would look at poverty level and income dispar

An idiot would blame race. Someone who actually thinks would look at poverty level and income disparity-- the womb of all violence and crime.


"However, if you honestly answer, you may be called a racist..." Nope. Just you, would be my guess.

[TnDem]

50. Income disparity

Income disparity and poverty levels don't excuse blacks killing blacks in EXTRORDINARILY high numbers...Gun violence is a problem in every single urban area.

Why?

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-violence-in-america/st_13-05-02_ss_guncrimes_05_race/

[Hoyt]

64. Truthfully, because folks who think like you helped force minorities into such areas.

And the bigots are still trying to keep them in those breeding grounds of despair.

[TnDem]

66. No one forced anyone anywhere...

Care to open your home to some of them to stay?

I am sure that urban Detroit can use a few more homeless shelters from concerned citizens like yourself.

Better hide your guns, jewelry and cash though....

[Hoyt]

71. Screw your gun.

[premium]

73. So why did you edit your post?

Why not leave it as is?

[Hoyt]

74. Thought I'd keep it in context of guns. Both indicate my disgust with his bigotry.

[premium]

75. Ok,

probably a good idea all things considered.

[Lizzie Poppet]

87. Irony: you haz it.

Bigotry? Um...own a mirror?

[premium]

95. You have no room to talk about bigotry here.

You constantly spout bigotry towards gun owners, here, and in the real world.

[Hoyt]

96. I admit it, I'm bigoted toward those who accumulate, carry, promote, and profit from guns.

[premium]

97. No, you're bigoted towards all gun owners,

you've been very vocal about that, but, you have that right, just don't be surprised when called on it.

[Bjorn Against]

89. A racist answer is not an honest answer

When you spew racist garbage don't be surprised when someone calls you a racist.

[rightsideout]

44. A correction on DC having "massive" gun violence

That was several years ago, maybe 20 years ago when we had up to 500 gun deaths per year in DC.

It was 181 in 2007, 99 in 2010 and I think 87 in 2012. So it's been going down.

I remember the days when it was 400 to 500 a year. But since then, the DC police cracked down on gang violence, removed alot of illegal guns off the streets and increased the presence of police in high crime areas, it's gone down substantially.

[TnDem]

55. Sure it has....And pushed it all..

Much of the urban crime population was all pushed to neighboring Prince George County Maryland, (where I grew up as a child).

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2011-12-31/local/35288275_1_homicide-count-homicides-fall-homicide-numbers

[Hoyt]

63. I would be more concerned with rural Tennesseans than someone in Chicago.

Those lightly educated yahoos and their love of guns is a national blight.

[TnDem]

67. Education

So all of us in Tennessee with a Master's in Education are a "blight" huh...

Nice ad-hominem assumption there.

[Hoyt]

70. Bigotry and love of guns are not characteristics I'd look for in educators.

But it's too common in red states.

[Comrade Grumpy]

17. What country are you from? We've been shooting each other for a long time here.

[snooper2]

21. Yo uzi congrats on 100 posts!

I guess we don't have to be dramatic about it though



Check this out, wherever this is it has to be the coolest place in the World. The dude filming doesn't even come out of his relaxed state. "that kind of blows"

[rustydog]

22. t may ot be "Normal" but, sadly, it is America's NORM

Thanks to selective ignorance, big money firearms manufacturing campaigns and bigotry and hatred.

[DrDan]

27. it's not really that bad here . . .

that is what we are constantly told by the local gunners - "considering the number of guns in the hands of citizens, 30,000 deaths is not really that significant"

[sarisataka]

30. "Normal is an illusion.

That which is normal to the spider is chaos to the fly" -Morticia Addams

Hint- there is more than one point to the quote

[galileoreloaded]

45. barely a couple thousand years out of the cave

and you think the last fifty or sixty is going bring what? peace and love?

magical thinking.....its not just for republicans apparently.

[rightsideout]

51. Double homicide in my neighborhood today

This was just down the street this morning. I heard police cars and a helicopter but I didn't really pay attention to what was happening till I started getting phone calls and emails from neighbors. A 59 year-old man shot and killed his wife and stepdaughter and shot his 15 year-old son but the son was able to get away and call police.

Killing people with guns seems to be the easy way out for some people with problems. Guns provide an impulsive solution. I'm sure this neighbor who killed two people was considered a responsible gun owner who had the gun for protection. Yea right.

[99Forever]

79. Gun culture is a mental illness.

Gun culture is a mental illness.
Gun culture is a mental illness.
Gun culture is a mental illness.
Gun culture is a mental illness.
Gun culture is a mental illness.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

83. it's race here in Chicago

Gangs, education, SES = race

[Imajika]

93. Are we really back to gun control?

I thought we'd learned our lesson on this in the 90's, and yet we're back to committing political suicide pushing gun control.

President Obama wasted all that political energy on additional background checks and got nothing. And in the end, even though most of the public is with us on some of these gun safety issues, the intensity and energy is always on the side of the pro-gun people.

Locally this issue can be a successfully navigated, but nationally it's an endless minefield not worth wading through.

This is going to seriously, adversely effect us in the 2014 elections. Gun control is a loser of a national issue.

[Kolesar]

94. Not back on it

Still on it