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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHolder should resign quickly, as should the IRS chief
Last edited Tue May 14, 2013, 02:13 PM - Edit history (1)
What a mess. Two major press stories at the same time that are damaging. I don't count Benghazi because that is just republican hype and nonsense.
Edited: I wasn't aware the IRS guy had already resigned. So that just leaves Holder. This guy has been a terrible attorney general. This should be the last straw. He is ultimately responsible in any case.
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apples and oranges
(1,451 posts)
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)
Progressive dog
(7,598 posts)It is a ridiculous OP
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)
JustAnotherGen
(38,037 posts)Both to wait and see. And the IRS chief who ordered this - he already resigned - it was a Bush appointee. I think last November.
Response to quinnox (Original post)
Pryderi This message was self-deleted by its author.
DonViejo
(60,536 posts)and that of the IRS before you get all panicky and start demanding people resign. Come to think of it, when the IRS and AP story are proven to be more GOP showboating, will quinnox be resigning from DU for demanding Holder and the Acting Commissioner resign?
cali
(114,904 posts)
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"I have done research and I've thought that Holder should resign for some time."
...explain why he should resign over this issue, share the findings of your research.
Michael Isikoff: Holder interviewed in DOJ investigation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022841561
cali
(114,904 posts)that Holder's DoJ requested subpoenas to track who reporters and editors were calling on both their work and private phones. I think it's even more egregious that these were secret subpoenas.
The Yemen story was about how a plot had been foiled: Please note the PAST tense. HAD BEEN. It was not a current or future threat according to every story I've read. So what was the pressing need for the secrecy?
<snip>
AP actually held the story for a few days at the time at the administration’s request, and then published only when it got the green light. But even so, the administration wanted to know who AP’s source was. And so the subpoena—extremely far-reaching as these things go, and possibly sought in violation of the guidelines governing such action.
<snip>
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/14/obama-should-ask-holder-to-resign.html
"think it's outrageous, given the circumstances of the Yemen leak"
...people making demands before all the facts are known. Nothing in the piece explains why Holder should resign over this incident given all the details known to date.
Hypocrisy: "Republicans accused the administration of deliberately leaking classified information"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022840983
Michael Isikoff: Holder interviewed in DOJ investigation
Posted here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022842030
DonViejo
(60,536 posts)I responded to quinnox. Demanding Holder resign, as quinnox is doing, over this issue (which is moving in the direction that Holder wasn't involved), is not good thinking IMHO.
BTW, I wanted Deval Patrick to replace Holder in the second term and, from what has been reported, the job was offered to him but he declined the appointment.
No Vested Interest
(5,297 posts)Probably a good move for him (to stay put as Gov.) if he wants to move up and on politically.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)I swear, sometimes I can hardly differentiate you from the rightwing TeaBaggers when you post your anti-Obama posts with such visceral negativity about this administration. Methinks you would have been much more happier with a Mittney presidency.
cali
(114,904 posts)of policies and issues.
- Afghanistan
-Gitmo
-vastly increased secret surveillance on Americans
- drone wars
And methinks you're full of it. If you can't distinguish my positions from the teabaggers, pumpkin, that's because the likes of YOU are just fine and dandy with right wing policies as long as they have a Democratic seal of approval.. And no, because unlike YOU, I'm not fine with swallowing right wing dog shit, I would not have been happier with a Romney Presidency.
And, despite stiff competition, Holder has always been my least-favorite, and among the least-scrutinized, Cabinet member. So of course he stayed on...
That said, the hypocrisy of the AP sniveling about being spied on is truly offensive.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)you know very little about the very topics you say you oppose the Obama Administration for.
Afghanistan: Obama campaigned that he would fight the right war and he would end it. You would know that had you had been paying attention instead of trying to crucify him every chance you get.
Gitmo: Obama signed an EO to close Gitmo in the first weeks of his presidency. Congress is to blame for closing off all avenues toward that end. Again, you'd know that had you not been so busy hating this president.
Vastly increased secret surveillance on Americans: Bullshit. In fact, due to his 2006 vote as Senator, the president curbed that shit by voting for greater judicial and congressional oversight on the Patriot Act.
Drone Wars: I'll give you this one. But he's already said that he's going to do things some of us won't agree with him on.
So Dumpkin, you're the one full of it. And no, I can't distinguish your visceral hatred for this administration from TeaBaggers. It's virtually impossible. So sue me.
Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #52)
Post removed
karynnj
(60,949 posts)The difference is easy to see by looking at what he/she dislikes and what he/she recommends as alternatives. These are NOT the same as the tea party. I have seen his/her posts for years - and the values behind them have stayed consistent whether the President is a Democrat or Republican. They have also usually fact based, well written and not inflammatory.
The world can not be viewed completely through a prism of whether it supports an Obama position or it is against it. That simplifies the world to a point where it has no resemblance to a real world with a vast array of opinions on everything.
There are times when we can and should disagree with an elected Democrat if his/her position is diametrically opposed to our own. Of course, there are ways to express that opposition in polite ways that bring up your points and call for us holding a higher standard. In addition, it sometimes works to change the position. I respect Bernie Sanders for LOUDLY speaking (and writing legislation) against changes that cut SS benefits - liked the chained CPI. Obama HAD included it in the offer to Boehner last summer and brought it up again early this year. There is an issue that many Democrats - including elected Democrats - disagree with the President on. Would you want all of them to be silent?
It is entirely possible to respect the President and even to think that his successes have already led him to have a strong claim on being considered a genuinely great President. Healthcare and his leadership restoring the economy - which is not yet complete - are just two reasons why this is true.
Is there ANY President that you can look back at and say that there was NOTHING he did or said that you disagree with? Do you believe that when you do disagree and you live in a democracy that you have not just the right, but the responsibility to dissent? I Know I cheered that very claim in 2006 when then Senator Kerry said it - speaking of Bush and Iraq. It does not make Obama stronger when no one are our side is willing to dissent.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)at times people have the tendency to scrutinize {sometimes unfairly} small pieces of legislation they disagree with, with such focus that they lose sight of the greater picture. I've pointed out a few instances complete with links. I'm still amazed that President Obama is being blamed for not having closed Gitmo while Congressional Democrats have gotten an undeserved pass. It just astounds me.
Of course I disagree with plenty that this president has done. But I don't lose sight of the fact that he's just the president and he doesn't even inhabit the most powerful branch of our three branches of government. You'd be surprised to know how few know that not the WH but Congress is the most powerful branch of our government.
I'm all for dissent, but it's got to be measured and informed dissent. That's what separates us from the Republicans - when they criticize Democrats since they never criticize their own, that is. But prematurely calling for the resignation of AG Holder just because one doesn't like him is not measured or informed. It's hysteria.
The chained CPI is a tiny reduction in cost of living raise. It doesn't touch basic benefits. But it fulfills his promise to save social security since the 2012 Trustee's Board analysis has shown that they will have to begin cutting basic benefits by a whopping 25% in 2033 - eight years earlier than the Board's forecast in 2005, which would have been 22%-25% cuts in basic benefits in 2041. This is alarming. But the chained CPI is just a tiny proposal in his much greater and far-reaching one that would stop subsidies to Big Pharma, Big Oil, Big Agri, and Big Corps. The president's proposal would institute universal Pre-K that would allow single mothers to keep their jobs as their children get a great head start in education. It would close tax loopholes for the already obscenely rich. It would shut the Republican up that "the president has never proposed a budget!" when that's a bald-faced lie - he's presented a budget every year since 2010, but it was continuously rejected by the obstructionist idiots in the House and Senate.
As for the chained CPI . . . it is tiny. It proposes not any cuts in basic benefits, but a 0.3% of 1% reduction in our current COLA. It's tiny compared to the cuts President Carter signed into law with both chambers of Congress under Democratic control. It must be noted that many Congressional Democrats who are now wailing against chained CPI were the same ones who had voted to cut benefits under Carter. And the chained CPI is far smaller than the cuts, approved by the some of the same Democrats now vocally against it today, under President Clinton when he signed into law the bill that taxes benefits {an effective benefits cut} for people who still work and make over $34,000.
I'm open to informed and measured debate on any issue involving this administration, but I have zero tolerance for anti-Obama vitriol based on nothing but an innate dislike {or even hatred} for this president and his administration. And if people practice the same blind dislike for this president without bothering themselves to do a little research, they are no different than TeaBaggers and they deserve the label.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)efforts to undo the damage to our Constitution that Bush/Cheney did. I didnt like the Patriot Act when Bush passed it and I dont like it now. Seems some here have changed their tunes and now embrace the Patriot Act, domestic spying and indefinite detention.
It's sad that some here, instead of presenting decent arguments, have to resort to comparing any criticism of the President with being right wing. We used to have a Democratic Party where differences were recognized and inter-party arguments were considered healthy. Now that many conservatives have immigrated into our party they have brought with them the idea of blindly following their leader and resort to ridicule to curtail arguments. Those are not Democratic values.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)closest to their own perfect ideology. I don't see Conservatives infiltrating the Democratic Party at all. I do, however, see anarchists, a Left/Libertarian fringe infiltrating it and weakening it with their own fears of "Big Gubment". Democrats believe, in their heart of hearts, that government has an important role to play in our lives. Fringies from the ultra-left to the ultra-rightwing distrust government.
And to assume and argue that no other Democratic president has done damage to our Constitution worst than Cheney/Bush is bullshit. One, of course, forgets those lovely Japanese concentration camps the esteemed and hailed FDR set up in a time of war. That's pretty damn damaging to our Constitution, wouldn't you agree? I mean, IF you were an American-born Japanese person - like George Takei.
You people need to wake up already. This ain't FDR's America anymore. Whether you like it or not, the assassination of JFK, the bombings by domestic AMERICAN terrorists {McVeigh, the Branch Davidians, 9/11, the "underwear bomber"}, and the rabid surge of domestic hate groups since President Obama became president, combined with easy accessible, unregulated gun-ownership has, sadly, made the Patriot Act necessary. Keeping America safe for all IS a Democratic value. Distrust of government is a Republican value. Remember?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Pres Obama is a conservative. Almost all of his appointees are conservatives. The Senate couldnt pass enhanced background checks because of the conservative Democrats. Conservatives consider the Patriot Act and domestic spying as necessary for our security. They dont care that they violate our Constitution because "security" is more important to a conservative. Conservatives think we should cut SS and Medicare and retain the current defense budget. Conservatives dont want to prosecute Wall Street like our current administration.
Senators Warren and Sanders are non-conservatives and they stand out like sore thumbs because they are so different from their conservative colleagues.
Now days if you stand up for single-payer health care, a stronger SS and Medicare, cutting defense waste, the restoration of Bush's Constitutional attacks, etc. you are called a radical.
Keeping your government accountable is a Democratic value not following in lock-step. Keeping America safe WITHIN THE CONFINES OF OUR CONSTITUTION is a Democratic value, not giving up freedom for a little security.
historylovr
(1,557 posts)magellan
(13,257 posts)I wasn't going to add anything but I have to. It's stunning to see a Dem defending the Patriot Act as necessary. There are few better examples of how far right the party has moved than that.
tblue
(16,350 posts)an AMERICAN value. Checks & balances per the Constitution are as American as jazz & apple pie. People who want unaccountable government should visit Saudi Arabia or North Korea or something.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)
treestar
(82,383 posts)Thought not.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)to be the ultimate in your face to the 99%. Penny is the ultimate Corporatist. She labels herself a Democrat, which I guess anyone can. IMO she is as far from a Democrat as possible. But Pres Obama loves her billion dollar power.
What's your opinion of Penny? Do you think she will be kind to the lowly 99%? Maybe give us some cake.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Any nominee for anything whatsoever?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)to respond in the same way.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)is as far removed from being principled as one can be. It's biased and prejudicial.
You're innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around AnotherMcIntosh. I'd think you'd agree with me at least on that Democratic value.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)calling for a criminal prosecution of Holder.
You're "innocent until proven guilty" statement is applicable to criminal prosecutions. If you have evidence that Holder has done something that is worthy of being prosecuted, please share it with us. A number of people would undoubtedly be interested, as would I.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)intelligent enough to understand at least that much.
But when it comes to Obama, Holder {that nasty AG who wants to keep MJ out of reach of MJ connoisseur}, or any other person in this administration, by some Professional Leftists, it's guilty until proven innocent, right McIntosh?
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Reread my post and stop seeing ghosts between the lines already.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)"But when it comes to Obama, Holder {that nasty AG who wants to keep MJ out of reach of MJ connoisseur}, or any other person in this administration, by some Professional Leftists, it's guilty until proven innocent, right McIntosh?"
QED: if someone does not agree with your statement that the innocent-until-proven-guilty principle is applicable in a non-criminal context regarding Holder, you consider them as being within the group of "Professional Leftists" or potentially being within the group of "Professional Leftists".
Name calling isn't very persuasive.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)I clearly made an insinuation that you are a {possible} reader of the professional left blogosphere; a blogosphere that's more Green Party {that never wins anything but a big yawn from the majority of Americans} than Democratic Party {that actually wins elections and power} since you obviously have a disdain for President Obama and his administration - something you share with them.
And as you've rightfully alluded to, a Professional Leftist is a person who profits from attacking this administration {you made that allusion with your "but now I'm a "Professional Leftist"? If so, somebody owes me money". They make more profit if a Republican is in the White House. Not so much when a Democrat is unless, of course, they can demonize said Democrat. Even you can't deny that.
So no. You're not a Professional Leftist. I consider you a member of the anti-Obama crowd who is easily excitable and easily whipped up in a frenzy by the Professional Left instigators while they make money off of your passionate clicks. You know? People like Jane Hamsher. Or Glenn Greenwald - although he's more of a Professional Rightie since he's a Libertarian. Or Michael Moore {made tens of millions off of outrage from the Left under Bush and would like to do so again, but alas, a Democrat is president} or DKos' Markos Moulitsas Zúniga. Get the picture? Those actors are the same people Rahm Emanuel referred to as the Professional Left, not the people who were whipped up in a frenzy because of them.
So no, no childish name-calling intended. It's simple and proven fact. But whoever this person was who called you a Purist, well, based on your anti-Obama posts that require unrealistic results from this admin, that person should get a medal.
treestar
(82,383 posts)
G_j
(40,568 posts)of comparing people here to tea-baggers?
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)of posers on this MB pretending to be Democrats while doing nothing more than bashing this president, his administration, and every single fucking thing he utters as if HE'S the enemy, not the Republicans OR the Professional Left who enable them.
That's what I'm tired about. In fact, I'm sick and tired of that.
karynnj
(60,949 posts)In the first place, Holder has been accused of many things that he actually did not do by the right. Lacking anything that is a smoking gun on a major issue getting him to resign when he is under fire adds credence to the Republican litany of lies.
In the second place, consider how difficult the confirmation process is. Holder resigning means Obama has to fight to get confirmation of someone else. Do you think that we could get someone better confirmed?
In the third place, there is an open question on whether the actions that are most disliked here were actually decided by Holder - or whether they were the decisions of Obama and his closest aides.
randome
(34,845 posts)
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morningfog
(18,115 posts)As AG please share.
randome
(34,845 posts)I just think the vitriol aimed in his direction is often too much and usually energized by someone's personal issue, like MMJ.
And I have nothing against MMJ being available but Holder trying to shut down dispensaries that state officials ask for help in closing is a non-issue to me.
(Not meaning to hijack this thread with another topic, BTW.)
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BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)dispensaries crack down. I've seen plenty of proponents of legalizing MJ - even when the citizens of a state voted against it - blame Holder for the actions taken.
Of course, they quaintly overlook that it were state officials who called in the DOJ's help, but that's a minor detail when the major focus is on hating they guy who had to do the dirty work.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)DonViejo
(60,536 posts)do you have a link to an article about it?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)that have gone to prison be what you are looking for? There are lots of articles on the Internets. He is even busting growers in the state of WAshington where the citizens have made it clear that they want marijuana legal.
Holder's got a lot on his plate but he chooses to spend lots of his resources busting medical marijuana users. He doesnt touch the big corporate corruption but spends his resources on denying patients their medicine. Holder's credentials all favor big corporations. He is not a friend of the 99%.
DonViejo
(60,536 posts)you said he has "hatred" for the folks. I want to see links to articles wherein he speaks of his hatred.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)"enforcing federal law". It appears that persecuting medical marijuana (the 99%) users has a higher priority than prosecuting Wall Street (the 1%) corruption. Guess which one the American people are most worried about.
DonViejo
(60,536 posts)the member dared ask for some further info regarding an allegation/assertion. Patronize folks much? Oh, BTW, I use medical marijuana on a nightly basis so, please take your condescension somewhere like Freak Republic where I'm sure it will dazzle the loons.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)So let's discuss condescension. I stated that Holder was concentrating too much resources on something that America (the 99%) is ok with instead of prosecuting Wall Street (the 1%). You said that he was just enforcing federal law. Now that sounds like condescension. But of course. No one is arguing about whether or not he is "enforcing the law". The issue is why is he spending resources on enforcing those laws in lieu of enforcing laws to control the corruption of big corporations. The decision on how to allocate resources is up to him and the President. That's the issue. Care to comment on that?
DonViejo
(60,536 posts)You made the statement the AG has nothing but "hatred" for folks using medi-mar. I asked you if there was a link to an article to support your allegation. You responded well, there's this....and if not that, try this,...but, then too, there's this.
Bottom line, you relied on hyperbole and were asked to back it up. You didn't/wouldn't/couldn't.
Have a good evening.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)He probably doesnt care a bit as he puts growers in prison for 20 years. It's just his job to carry water for the big corporations like big pharma.
My "hyperbole" aside, dont you agree that the Obama admin have their priorities messed up? I think the persecution of medical marijuana is to appease big pharma and to distract from the lack of prosecution of big corporation corruption.
Have a good evening.
treestar
(82,383 posts)They are "prosecuting Wall Street." They have many laws to enforce.
randome
(34,845 posts)link:http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/04/07/medical-marijuana-industry-growing-billion-dollar-business/2018759/
He doesn't appear to be waging a very effective 'war' against them, does he?
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rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)people want. Interesting that big corporations like big pharm approve of their persecution of medical marijuana users.
One of the president's powers is called selective enforcement. Congress writes the laws but he can determine whether resources are focused on big corporation corruption or focusing on the medical marijuana users. I guess we can see where his focus is.
randome
(34,845 posts)But I still think the 2,000 dispensaries currently operating show that he isn't trying to shut them all down. A lot of them were shut down due to local requests. And some were quite flagrantly flaunting federal law.
On balance, I think the DOJ is leaving alone those dispensaries that are squeaky clean. They don't earn a profit and they keep meticulous records.
That's how the law stands now. And I can't see turning a completely blind eye to the issue especially when states request help in closing some facilities.
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rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)Justice Dpt. had subpoenas - complete non story.
IRS Chief responsible has already resigned, that's like asking Obama to resign because Bush started an illegal war - another non story.
What were you saying about hype?
ProSense
(116,464 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)but please don't agree with me....
"No offense but please don't agree with me...."
...who are you afraid of?
demwing
(16,916 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)"there's no fear - it's just you"
...you're on a discussion board harboring some serious issues.
I agree with you on that issue. Don't worry, no hard feelings, and sorry for the stress that caused you.
I can't promise that I'll never agree with you again.
demwing
(16,916 posts)and I think the way you frequently cite yourself as a reference is...I dunno...arrogant?
I have plenty of issues, but you are not one of them. I don't like to auto-ignore anyone. So far, manually avoiding your comments has worked just fine. I'd like to keep things that way.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)"Listen - I just don't agree with your absolute commitment to cheer-leading the President and I think the way you frequently cite yourself as a reference is...I dunno...arrogant?"
...you're a rebel! Thanks for that great declaration of your independence from me.
"I have plenty of issues, but you are not one of them. I don't like to auto-ignore anyone. So far, manually avoiding your comments has worked just fine. I'd like to keep things that way."
Apparently, I am one of "plenty" issues. Otherwise, why did simply agreeing with you set you off?
As for the "manually" thing, it clearly didn't work.
galileoreloaded
(2,571 posts)and you excel at both but clearly engage in order to further some cohesion.
i wouldn't take it personally, i never do.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"people are sensitive to manipulation and propaganda and you excel at both but clearly engage in order to further some cohesion. i wouldn't take it personally, i never do."
...say the darndest things, and then you realize they're taking a discussion board way too seriously.
galileoreloaded
(2,571 posts)im just suggesting that maybe calibrating the message a bit merits looking into.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"lol. look, you know i respect your purpose and what you do here"
...I think you're projecting an impression you have.
galileoreloaded
(2,571 posts)
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)
randome
(34,845 posts)Nothing else.
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BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)You've got some serious personal issues with ProSense that you can't even accept an agreement from him/her? How immature. Oh, and no offense intended. Just pointing out a fact.
demwing
(16,916 posts)And though I may be immature, you are confused between the meaning of the terms "fact" and "opinion."
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)There was no need for you to come swinging out at ProSense for agreeing with you, and then to tell this DUer to "please don't agree" with you is childish, offensive, and divisive. Then you add insult to injury by following that post up with another post calling him/her a cheerleader.
I don't agree with a lot of what the anti-Obamanites infesting this MB post, either, but if I do find something I can agree on them with, I'd like to know that they wouldn't go adolescent on me and tell me not to agree with them as if my agreement is the equivalent to getting "cooties".
You were wrong in your response. It was uncalled for. I just hope you're mature enough to at least acknowledge that much.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)
How does it feel to be on the same side as the baggers? I would think it would be at least, uncomfortable?
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)with that particular poster.
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)Holder should have been out for a dozen reasons LONG before this, imo
morningfog
(18,115 posts)They have never been good at controlling the message, now they are getting buried under it. The second term is as good as over unless they clean house.
randome
(34,845 posts)But I don't see that happening. These are all non-scandals ginned up by the GOP and now AP. There is no 'there' there.
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morningfog
(18,115 posts)"The wheels are coming off this administration. They have never been good at controlling the message, now they are getting buried under it. The second term is as good as over unless they clean house."
..."wheels are coming off this administration" because you think the Republicans are better at "controlling the message," and the administration should fire people because of fake scandals?
Republican Threatens To Block Funding For IRS Agents To Implement Obamacare
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022841795
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)Justice had subpoenas, and the IRS Chief at fault resigned months ago. Why are you starting fires?
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)quinnox
(20,600 posts)Yup, they better attend to this mess quickly by cleaning house. Putting heads in the sand as some (the cheerleader contingent) seem to want to do won't solve a thing.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)your CONCERN is duly noted.
Javaman
(65,676 posts)I have ever read on DU.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Things are going swell and he is set to get all of his big agenda items passed. Everything is going as planned.
Javaman
(65,676 posts)I stand by what I said.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Javaman
(65,676 posts) MjolnirTime
(1,800 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)because he was a potential target, genius.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(130,404 posts)There is only an acting head. The Bush appointee who was the agency head when all this happened is already gone.
premium
(3,731 posts)but not for those bullshit reasons, he should resign for his refusal to prosecute the Bush crime cabal, his crackdown on MM dispensaries, for not prosecuting the gangster banksters that nearly destroyed this country.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)President Barack Obama does not need these people or this garbage. As the "executive" in the executive branch he can show he means business by not leaving either of them an option.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)You know? Like the Republicans and Big Corp have been wanting him to buckle?
Why would any Democrat want a Democratic president to look weak?
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)The republicans are beating him up anyway, strong decisive action by the president weakens any attack they can make on the whitehouse.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)resign? Did it make the Democrats look strong when that fucktard Breitbart was hogging up the airtime to ridicule Weiner as he made his resignation speech while the likes of Vitter, Ensign, pro-abortion-for-himself-only-serial-adulterer and physician U.S. Rep DeJarlais not only maintained his license to practice medicine but remained untouched while he sanctimoniously sits in judgment on the panel of Issa's witch-hunt tribunal on Benghazi?
No. It makes the Democrats LOOK WEAK and disorganized, but it makes the Republicans Party look loyal and united.
The last thing the Democrats need to do is cut our own while looking the other way when Republicans have done worse. Holder has done nothing wrong here. Why in the hell should he resign? Instead, this should open up the Emerging America scandal, the Democratic group that was the first to be denied 501(c)4 tax exempt status by the IRS under a Democratic President that were only trying to work to get more women elected.
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)No reason to give gravitas to Thugs who are acting like this because they lost the election.
NightWatcher
(39,376 posts)It's only fair.
Beacool
(30,514 posts)
quinnox
(20,600 posts)villager
(26,001 posts)A pity that if he does, it will be Obama appeasing his Republican "base" again, and no one else...
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Holder hasn't been a strong AG, but to have him resign now would play directly into the rabid-rightwing base who will believe they smell blood in the water. And the last thing we need to do is give these fuckers an inch.
geckosfeet
(9,644 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)
chillfactor
(7,694 posts)Holder needs to ride this out...and if he resigns after that fine....but his leaving now solves nothing but fuel the flames
and since there IS no IRS chief that point is moot...
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)
demwing
(16,916 posts)GAME OVER MAN!
oh wait.....
never mind...
siligut
(12,272 posts)Do you own research and reasoning
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)If an anonymous poster on an internet message board says this is damaging, I just don't know how the Administration can recover.
We be screwn!!!1!(one)11!!
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)it's job.
Maybe you should get a job with FAUX News and resign what ever you do now for a living.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)He had to be the one who signed off on a DOJ subpoena - unless someone else lower down in the department did not follow the regs, which is of course VERY possible.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)All this has been posted and linked to today on this board.
Holder recused himself
tularetom
(23,664 posts)No he appears to have no culpability in the IRS or AP gates but the fact that he has failed to put a single crooked banker in jail or charge any of the cheney/rumsfeld torture crew for their many crimes is reason enough for his worthless ass to be gone. Not to mention his vendetta against medical marijuana.
If this crap will get him out the door, then I'm OK with it.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)I agree that Holder needs to go pronto.
okwmember
(345 posts)heads roll at the IRS yesterday, all I could think of was Shirley Sherrod. Why is the president saying, if the allegations are true I'll take care of it, but I want to know what happened first such a disappointment to these people? I guess that's why he's the president and they're paid to be reactionary on the tv.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)It seems that regs in existence since 1980 were not followed, but that doesn't mean that Holder violated them. It could have been someone lower down in the department who didn't follow the regulation that requires the AG to issue the subpoena.
Don't assume anything here, except that we have a problem and there needs to be an investigation to find out WHO screwed up.
We're not going to retain freedom of the press if the government can just secretly demand months worth of personal and office phone records of major reporting outfits secretly, without judicial review.
randome
(34,845 posts)Nothing was done 'secretly' since a subpoena was issued and the AP was notified of that, albeit later than one would have assumed was necessary but that's to be determined, too.
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quinnox
(20,600 posts)Heads need to roll on this one. I think Holder should be held responsible regardless though. He is the number one guy.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr]
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FSogol
(47,609 posts)
Get an F'ing clue.
Zen Democrat
(5,901 posts)Please try to read and keep up before posting such crocks of ignorance.
madokie
(51,076 posts)and trust me I've read some stupid ass shit today and hell, its barely past noon
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)Sid
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)are fully protected by the running of the 5-year statute of limitations.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)Holder has been terrible from day one. The impression that Obama seems so loyal to him is disturbing.
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)"Have the wheels come off the Obama administration bus yet? Anything we can do to speed it up???"
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr]
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geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)ZRT2209
(1,357 posts)Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)Because if the Deputy did this without telling Holder, then the Deputy AG violated DOJ regs. But if the Deputy AG told Holder, then Holder violated the regs.
Zen Democrat
(5,901 posts)Sorry to disappoint the trolls.
sinkingfeeling
(57,779 posts)Last edited Tue May 14, 2013, 04:36 PM - Edit history (1)
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)issue.
Jeebus, they are drooooooling......
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)about "union thugs" helping push passage.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)
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alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)
The baggers of all stripes are going bananas. I'll be laughing at them all through January 2017 at the earliest!
Morons.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Got that in lime green and puce? Or maybe Halloween colors??
FSogol
(47,609 posts)Response to geek tragedy (Reply #98)
geek tragedy This message was self-deleted by its author.
treestar
(82,383 posts) 
tridim
(45,358 posts)
And like the last 500 times he will not resign, because as usual he did nothing wrong.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)quinnox
(20,600 posts)I stand by my OP for Holder to resign, however.
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)maybe you should check the facts before calling for resignations.
http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/14/18253923-holder-addresses-ap-leaks-investigation-announces-irs-probe?lite
Sid
Response to quinnox (Original post)
Post removed
quinnox
(20,600 posts)MjolnirTime
(1,800 posts)none really possible.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)should resign?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022842968
quinnox
(20,600 posts)I suggest to take another look at the OP, and you will find an update. That doesn't change my feelings in that Holder has been a terrible attorney general.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)expect a bit more from you.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022842968
quinnox
(20,600 posts)And even if Holder wasn't directly involved, I feel he should resign in this matter. And you never know, maybe it would help take the heat off the story. Otherwise, This could really blow up and hurt all Democrats in office IMHO.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Why not the President, too?
quinnox
(20,600 posts)The president has no reason to resign for this, it is on Holder.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)
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quinnox
(20,600 posts)and hurt all Democrats nationally? It is time to take one for the team, Holder needs to go.
randome
(34,845 posts)He can't recuse himself AND be part of the investigation. I think you have other motives for disliking Holder.
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MetasticTwine
(67 posts)Holder recused himself from the case because he had to be questioned and could have become a target since he was informed as to the thwarting of the terrorist attack planned by the Yemeni Al Queda branch.
If you're looking for some patsy to take a fall over a 100% legal subpoena of telephone records under the USA PATRIOT Act, I suggest you look towards Deputy Attorney General James Cole as he was Acting Attorney General for this investigation and he would have been the one to sign off on the subpoenas, not Holder.
Of course if you just have a general beef with Holder you're no different from the GOP who went after Holder over Fast and Furious, looking for any excuse to call for his resignation.
If your real beef is with the extraordinary powers granted the Executive Branch by the USA PATRIOT Act, I suggest you contact your Congressperson and your Senators to urge repeal. That is my particular plan of action as I do have a problem with the DOJ having these extraordinary but still 100% legal powers.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)Ya know, like leaders are supposed to do. He is ultimately responsible as the top dog. Plus, it is well past time to get a fresh face in as attorney general, Holder has had his chance.
MetasticTwine
(67 posts)and are looking for any excuse whatsoever to call for his resignation since he had absolutely no responsibility in the AP investigation whatsoever.
In other words, you're no different from Darrel Issa in regards to Holder.
Gotcha.
I had hoped your real beef would be with the extraordinary powers granted to the executive branch via the USA PATRIOT Act since the actions taken in this case were 100% within the bounds of that act and the SCOTUS has upheld those powers.
I guess I understand what you're really looking for all too well.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)I realize that it will be a long road to correct it, and won't happen any time soon. Maybe not until we get a new president and congress.
MetasticTwine
(67 posts)you should be calling for the resignation of Deputy Attorney General James Cole sine he was the "top dog" or "the guy at the top" in this investigation and Holder had precisely nothing to do with it as he had to be investigated over the leak.
But no, you're going after Holder (again, who had absolutely nothing to do with it), which puts you right up their with the likes of Darrell Issa.
randome
(34,845 posts)
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quinnox
(20,600 posts)You obviously think Holder should stay. I don't. We will have to agree to disagree. Notice I did not insult you once during this conversation by linking your opinion with right wingers. 
MetasticTwine
(67 posts)Get Holder at all costs even when he bears precisely zero responsibility.
That's pretty screwed up.
And on top of that, you want somebody, who had nothing to do with the decision making process, to take responsibility for an act that was 100% within the confines of the law, law which has been upheld by the SCOTUS.
That's even more fucked up and Issa-like.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)I bet he thinks the sky is blue, and the moon is not made of cheese. Tell me I'm wrong... Come on, this is silliness. 
WillyT
(72,631 posts)quinnox
(20,600 posts)Nice to see others feel the same way.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)graham4anything
(11,464 posts)I would nominate Holder for US Supreme Court.
these stories are just beltway boredom.
Maybe you are rushing to judgement by the way.
I would take a look at the events of the last few minutes.
still_one
(98,883 posts)illegal so it must be so. They also told us their were WMDs in Iraq, Gabby Giffords was killed, the ACA would not pass, and were essentially silent as individual civil rights were violated through mechanisms such as the patriot act, which may make this legal but uncontitutional, but they are upset because the corporations are the victims, not individuals
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)... and he left the IRS in November 2012.
Hamlette
(15,556 posts)no flipping way should he resign over this. He had NOTHING to do with it (as far as I can tell)
You do not give in to blackmail or hostage taking. You stand up to those empty suits and fight it out.
I'm a little surprised how upset all of you are over the IRS incident. I thought the Tea Party was non partisan. That's what they always say. So it wasn't a witch hunt for republicans at all.
Turbineguy
(40,034 posts)not wait for all the facts to come in!
randome
(34,845 posts)
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Turbineguy
(40,034 posts)I read on the internets that they forced tea-party patriots to eat yellow meatloaf! I can't provide a link. OK, maybe somebody mentioned it in a restaurant. Anyway, IT MUST BE TRUE!
randome
(34,845 posts)Although there apparently IS something called buffalo chicken meatloaf. Who would have thought?
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Zen Democrat
(5,901 posts)I was VERY proud of him. He went toe to toe with the GOP last year.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr]
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LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Like Bernstein said, Nixon-esque. The Benghazi thing is bullshit, but the IRS and and AP scandals aren't.
This is probably my all time low in terms of morale. It's the kind of shit I expected out of Bush.
LiberalFighter
(53,544 posts)
Hekate
(100,133 posts)Haven't you learned that yet?
Obama is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. From Day One.
JCMach1
(29,196 posts)time to bring in the hook...
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)kiranon
(1,738 posts)newmember
(805 posts)dennis4868
(9,774 posts)He was not involved in the AP subpoena situation as he recused himself. Every time GOP demands someone should resign that means they should resign? Don't make sense. So many here on DU are making crazy comments with nothing to back it up.