Why are there so many apologists on this board for the civil liberties overreaches of this...

[villager]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Turborama (a host of the General Discussion forum).

...administration?

Disgusting and appalling. The kind of groupthink for the other side that used to be justifiably noted, parodied, and made fun of on this board.

Until many posters on this board realized -- Pogo-like -- that they have seen the political toadying, and it was them.

[CJCRANE]

1. Was looking for the person who outed Valerie Plame

a civil liberties overreach?

[Luminous Animal]

42. Journalists were directly subpoenaed. None of this back door 3rd party bullshit.

As much as I can't stand Judith Miller, she did the right thing in maintaining confidentiality and going to jail for it.

[frylock]

105. going to continue that BS argument despite being corrected this morning?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022840575#post9

[cali]

2. it's freaking the hell out of me. I don't know what to say beyond

that except it seems as if a dem imprimatur on anything makes it acceptable.

[Melinda]

3. Happy to be the first K&R.

The things that make a head spin. Rabbit hole, and all that...

[on point]

4. Defending party, not principle....

[Yo_Mama]

119. But what will happen to the party if we don't focus on principle?

I admit that the tradition and the name evoke a fondness, but that too will fade if this sort of thing becomes common. Dissent, in some cases, really IS the highest form of patriotism.

[morningfog]

5. Too many start with the question,

How is this good or bad for Obama/dems instead of asking whether it is right or wrong. It is sad to see people put party first and party only.

[JoePhilly]

12. For a second ...

I thought you were referring to DU's group of perpetually outraged folks who find Obama's every utterance a terrible slight.

From what I can see in the OPs, some of them seem rather giddy today. Facts or no facts.

[graham4anything]

30. +44. they indeed are happy. But then they never were happy in 2008 or 2012 in the 1st place

[Skittles]

34. you are both WRONG

[graham4anything]

37. you are entitled to your opinion as we all are.

[Skittles]

38. not opinion, FACT

[jaysunb]

50. It was correctly called OPINION

and that's what it is.

[Number23]

82. + a million. Go get'em, jaysun

[Skittles]

87. get 'em?

[Number23]

90. Witty as ever. Truly.

[Skittles]

92. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Number23]

93. Oh, the pleasure is all mine. You Better Believe It.

[Skittles]

97. creepy

[Number23]

100. Don't be so hard on yourself.

[BlueCaliDem]

113. Excellent comeback!

[still_one]

6. Perhaps they want to make sure they know the facts. Just because the media says its so, doesn't

mean it is

That is NOT an excuse, one is innocent until proven guilty

[JoePhilly]

9. Facts, Facts??? We don't need no stinking facts.

[still_one]

16. When the press goes out of their way to get the views from folks from the bush administration, I

really need to wonder why they would do that, because it sure isn't to try to get at the truth

[JoePhilly]

21. No argument there.

The media loves a scandal, any scandal.

Lacking a terrorist attack or some one having sex with some one they shouldn't have sex with ... any scandal will do.

[Niceguy1]

23. in the case of the

IRS the Inspector General found fault with what's going on.

[quinnox]

7. K&R

I agree 1000 percent with this OP.

[upaloopa]

8. I don't think all of the story is out there

Why do so many accept the Faux News version of all this?

[AnotherMcIntosh]

17. Who said, with respect to the AP story:

"The media's purpose is to keep the public informed and it should be free to do so without the threat of unwarranted surveillance. The Attorney General must explain the Justice Department's actions to the public so that we can make sure this kind of press intimidation does not happen again."
...
"Obtaining a broad range of telephone records in order to ferret out a government leaker is an unacceptable abuse of power. Freedom of the press is a pillar of our democracy, and that freedom often depends on confidential communications between reporters and their sources."

It wasn't Faux News.
http://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/justice-department-secretly-subpoenas-ap-phone-records

[JoePhilly]

26. Let's look at the second qoute you posted ...

"Obtaining a broad range of telephone records in order to ferret out a government leaker is an unacceptable abuse of power. Freedom of the press is a pillar of our democracy, and that freedom often depends on confidential communications between reporters and their sources."

Do you see the word I placed in bold?

Is that word "always" or "often"?

The difference suggests that, at times, such confidentiality is not warranted. In this case, we can't be sure yet because the facts are not in.

Now, when Valerie Plame was outed ... was Judith Miller jailed for not revealing her source (contempt of court).

Did you become concerned when that happened?

[bobclark86]

63. The word often means...

that particular tool isn't always needed for a journalist to do their job — as in there's public information available. Often, though, one has to go deeper. It's a tool the media uses to get information, and the word "often" has NOTHING to do with it's sometimes OK to get subpoenas.

BTW, we really need a federal shield law, like many states have in place now. Confidentiality is often necessary, otherwise whistle blowers would be thrown in jail because they saw something was wrong and decided to go against their party and voice their concerns.

[upaloopa]

28. Like I said I don't think all of the story is out there

I read here today that Holder recused himself, there were sophenas
issued for the search I'll hold my judgement until I know the truth.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

101. You qualified what you said by saying, "Why do so many accept the Faux News version of all this?"

[DeSwiss]

58. This is NOT about one story. :-/ n/t

[JDPriestly]

64. With regard to the IRS story, I agree.

I am not an Obama-is-right-all-the-time DUer, but I don't have enough facts about the IRS story to do more than say that the IRS should not target either individuals or organizations based on their beliefs.

On the other hand, I heard a discussion about this specific IRS case, and one speaker pointed out that the IRS sometimes investigates non-profits that claim tax exempt status to make sure that they are really entitled to it. That may have been the case in the IRS situation. Having worked for a 501(c)3 for some years (quite a few years ago), we had to report a lot of things to the IRS. Of course our activities and what we said about them were subject to IRS review. There is no problem with that.

[winter is coming]

73. ^^ This.

I'm seeing a lot of flapping around, but not much useful information at this point. We're getting news frenzy, not news.

[geek tragedy]

10. There is some middle ground between

the people who insist nothing is wrong and the perpetual outrage junkies calling for resignations and impeachment before getting basic facts in order.

[CJCRANE]

15. +1

[G_j]

22. maybe

but even there one gets accused of being a hater. It's not even possible to have the discussion here anymore.

[geek tragedy]

24. just like when people get accused of being authoritarian fanboy worshippers . . nt

[G_j]

31. very true

equally unproductive.

[maddezmom]

86. +1000

[AnotherMcIntosh]

11. Maybe because they are neither liberals nor progressives.

[NorthCarolina]

115. No "Maybe" about it. nt

[Fire Walk With Me]

13. Blind faith, blind allegiance are exactly what the powers that be want most in a people.

"Just following orders." "You are either with us or with the terrorists."

Some may imagine that toe'ing the party line, no matter how far it has been drawn away from party values or even American, Constitutional values, is important to party success in the face of the malevolent "other". Which is a nice trick in and of itself, innit.

And the bankers and plutonomists behind both parties sit there and laugh as we are divided and conquered, never uniting against the real problem. Pay no attention to the dollars behind the curtain.

Unity IS important, populist uprising the answer. Unite behind and demand FDR values. That would swing things in a nice direction.

[KoKo]

25. +1

[graham4anything]

40. -1 but then everyone has an angle.Everyone knows everyone's angle.redux.

[TheMadMonk]

116. And YOURS is to REPEATEDLY excuse behaviour in the current Administration,...

...that which THIS website was devoted to condemning in the previous.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

14. It's O, it's a Dem --

it's not really that big a deal -- the usual excuses when this WH poops out something that stinks.

The current thing I am primarily po'd about is the spying on the AP. Will wait for more info on the IRS fiasco before coming to a conclusion. And Benghazi is a non issue for me.

[JoePhilly]

29. Where was the DU outrage when Judith Miller was jailed for not telling who her source was

when Valerie Plame was outed?

I was here then and I recall no outrage of any kind.

[Luminous Animal]

45. I was pissed off.

Journalists ought to maintain confidentiality.

[dkf]

51. That was one reporter with one source, not the entire New York Times for 2 months.

[asjr]

66. That source turned out to be two-faced and only wanted to line his pockets.

Judith Miller's ego kept urging her on, thinking Pulitzer Prize and in the end was relegated to inferior newspapers.

[JoePhilly]

72. Ah, so the issue is the number of people.

[dkf]

88. Yes. It should have been targeted if anything.

Now you've got an entire organization freaking out over which of their sources have been compromised. 100 reporters! If you are a whistleblower do you feel comforted by knowing this?

[Egalitarian Thug]

18. Some republicans had a tenuous grasp on sanity and so started calling themselves Democrats? n/t

[Johonny]

32. pretty much

Sorry I can't reach FOX news levels of paranoia about subjects that I can barely form a care about. The IRS bias seems to have been eternally discovered and corrected, the AP story so far appears to be the news only complaining about a policy when it directly affects them, and Benghazi... I remember when DUers threw ACORN under the bus because WE NEEDED TO BE OUTRAGED. It turns out we didn't need to be.

If the IRS lead to a real discussion about how the IRS reviews potential applications to different tax status it might be interesting. If the AP story lead to real evaluation of wire tapping American Citizens then it might be interesting, if Benghazi lead to... anything it might be interesting. Will they? Probably not. So I'll save my fake outraged for actual bad things the Obama Administration is doing.

[Zen Democrat]

20. Because my friend, it's the LAW and not an overreach.

Obama voted against the over reach while in the Senate. He voted for a shield law, which didn't pass.

[randome]

27. I don't know about you but...

...when I see a good number of people disagreeing with me, I at least think it's time to reassess my own position.

Maybe, just maybe, I can be wrong. Or, at the very least, not as right as I'd like to be.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Skittles]

33. they are Groupies

don't pay attention to them - they are swooners and are unable to think logically

[MjolnirTime]

36. whatever, I can remember you all in swoon over Hillary.

You're still upset about the 2008 Primary.

[Skittles]

39. I WAS NOT A HILLARY SUPPORTER

because of her support for that INSANE war

see how fucking OFF BASE you are? NOW BEAT IT.

[Marr]

109. I get that regularly, too.

A confident assertion that I supported Hillary Clinton, and so 'never loved Him'. They say it like they specifically remember me.

It's completely untrue, of course-- but they don't care. It's just some stupid excuse to latch onto so they don't have to think.

[graham4anything]

43. not to mention John the fraud Edwards, who used a whisper campaign against the other 2

[MjolnirTime]

35. Why did you make this President into an enemy to be defeated??

That's even more appalling.

And not very intelligent, either.

[villager]

46. When did this administration make his most ardent supporters an enemy to be shunned?

Whose policies they voted him in to defend, propose, protect -- must be shunned, in order to appease his -- and your -- enemies?

[NorthCarolina]

118. Don't bother trying to figure it out,

it will only make your head explode.

[Fire Walk With Me]

80. I can find no possible excuse or rationalization for the continued unConstitutional actions of POTUS

over the last several years. Literally unConstitutional, in the case of Hedges et. al. vs Obama, regarding the NDAA section 1021, which Obama signed on New Year's Eve (and has signed into another year of function). It provides for the indefinite detention of US citizens with neither trial nor representation. A judge ruled it unConstitutional and struck it down. Obama sent lawyers and got it reinstated. Reinstating an onConstitutional law, which hacks out sections of the Bill of Rights.

It is equally telling that republicans have zero, zero, zero problem with such things as the NDAA. It's because the two parties are owned by the same money sources and vary only in quantity of negative influence. Obama has continued the neocon/Bush-era 9/11 power grab and added significantly. When Bush did it, we screamed and marched. When Obama did it, we said "stop bashing Obama". Extra-judicial executions of Americans abroad. Drones killing hundreds of children in some five countries at whom we are not at war. Militarization of US police forces, $3 billion a year spent turning the country into a surveillance state (someone is getting VERY rich doing this. Can you say ARMS DEALERS?). He continues to bail out and even protect wall street after they nearly trashed the economy in 2008, and continue to reap amazing bailouts at taxpayer expense. The "recovery" has only been for the rich. The poor have even lost ground since 2008, and now Obama is installing European-style "austerity", which is nothing but another combination of bailout at taxpayer expense plus the added insult of cutting social programs because "there's no money" (which is all going to Wall Street and the military industrial complex and surveillance state).

So far as the Trend, Obama is Bush on steroids, and hasn't even said a word about punishing those war criminals, much less eliminating their very policies.

[valerief]

41. Welcome to the Flintstone Era loaded with DINOs. nt

[chillfactor]

44. thanks..but I will wait.....

until all of the facts are in.....I cannot believe the hysteria on this board....good grief....get a grip already!

[Progressive dog]

47. When the main outers of these civil liberties

overreaches are the same republican thugs that have been ignoring civil liberties forever, who are serial liars, then I take their claims with a grain of salt.
That does not make me an apologist for anything.
Waiting to hear both sides of the story does not make me an apologist.

Realizing that so far even the alleged overreaches of this administration do not come near the proven overreaches of the preceding administration does not make me an apologist.

[L0oniX]

48. Cult of personallity worshippers and pride.

Too many American Idol watcher types on this board can make it suck.

[Southerner]

49. "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power...

corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." - Lord Acton

History repeating itself over and over.

[Tarheel_Dem]

52. What distinguishes you guys from Teabaggers? I'll be damned if I can tell the diff anymore.

Some of the kneejerk bullcrap here leads one to believe some of you have gone so far left, you were bound to end up in the same camp. I blame the Dennis Kucinich/Ron Paul coalition for some of this phony outrage, afterall Kooch does sit on Paul's advisory board. Ugh!

Is this gonna be the one? Tony Rezko couldn't stop him. Rev. Wright couldn't do it. Solyndra blew up. Fast & Furious fizzled. Eric Holder is still AG, and Obama is still president. Will this be the one where either or both resign? Hardly.

This isn't, and has never been about "civil liberties" for you & your cronies. It's always been about dislike of any and all things Obama. A cursory search of the archives establishes that fact. Good luck with this one.

[villager]

54. Wrong on... well, pretty much all counts, Tarheel!

Not that there's much surprise there....

Good luck with the continued backpedaling and explaining you'll be doing over the next 3.5 years! :wave:

[Tarheel_Dem]

78. I'm gonna let this thread die a proper death. I won't be "explaining" anything further.

I'll be participating in a discussion forum, just like you. This crap will live, only in the minds of the Obama haters, for the next 3.5 years, no one of consquence will give a shit!!! Oh, and another one of you guys pet "scandals" is already falling apart at the seams. Why don't you go over here & give it a rec?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251305737 Enjoy!!!!

[Cha]

67. Kucinich was trying to blame Pres Obama on fox screws the other day..

for the IRS investigating TeaBaggers A useful idiot for fox.

[Marr]

69. You could've just used your "You Never Really Loved Him" stamp.

[treestar]

75. Ya Better Believe It!

[NorthCarolina]

122. Not sure why right of center folks keep making the mistake of associating Kucinich with Ron Paul.

The two actually have very little in common beyond that they are both against fighting unconstitutional wars.

[Whisp]

53. what I still find disgustig and appalling after all these years...

is how the press cheered on the Chimperor's murder rampage in Iraq.

I am having difficulty standing up for their rights as their rights are mostly dedicated to giant corporations.
Freedom of the press never existed - just like 'all men are created equal' (well except these and those and hers) that those guys back in the 1700s said - never existed. Candy floss for the cut off chicken heads.

[Anansi1171]

55. Let's impeach! Impeach! Impeach! Impeach!

That's the only way to hold this administration accountable, right?

So lets impeach him for his gross violations of civil liberties and hand the mantle of governance over to those that value civil liberties like the Tea Party in 2014 and Rand Paul in 2016. Seems to me that's a fait accompli now, as folks like you refuse to give the President the benefit of the doubt. At least you will have the strength of your convictions, realpolitik be damned.

I feel much better now, having voted for Ralph Nader in 2000, I had thought I had made a terribly naive mistake in forsaking the DLC for the sort of Third Way choice that's so advocated by progressives here that are every bit as dogmatic in their moralizing as any southern baptist preacher. I thought maybe I was in a dangerous state of denial about what the United States truly is and the ugly realities of actually governing. I thought my choice, along with others who simply wanted to do right by their ideals and their aspirations for the possibility of a new and better world, had in fact helped to bring about incalculable harm to those same.

So be disgusted and appalled, I will lean on Voltaire for my support of your right to express those feeling.

But accusing anyone of like mind of "groupthink" in giving the administration the benefit of the doubt? From my vantage point, sadly, it is this point of view that is in the minority here on DU. The AP shouldn't have taken the leak out of the time-frame the administration graciously requested and they were playing simple partisan politics, and the leaker broke the law. The "secret" subpoena was a subpoena nonetheless. The Tea Party Patriots are completely gaming the system and can kiss my ass. Benghazi is a tragedy and if blame is to be found its likely with the CIA and I would not be surprised if it was a frame-up.

If you're so blindly-outaged as to help the down-fall of this administration, mistakes and all, even grave mistakes, then yes-I'm sure I disgust you. I have no desire - none- to see political power relinquished at this moment. I saw Sunni thugs kill their poor Shia and Druze neighbors for simple greed and dress it up behind political and religious rhetoric and I know that is what the Tea Party is and that is what they would and will do when given the chance. I cannot countenance the alternative. I am black, my three young children are black, and I take the Freepers at their word.

So please be appalled and disgusted, but do not accuse me of groupthink, please.

[Ikonoklast]

77. Fuck Ralph Nader.

[George II]

56. So many?

[JDPriestly]

57. What specific breaches of civil liberties are you referring to?

I often criticize the Obama administration for these breaches -- on this board.

But not all of the accusations against the Obama administration about breaches of civil liberties are, in my opinion, actually breaches.

Having seen these breaches in all administrations throughout my life, I am convinced that they are the product of entrenched, conservative, fearful interests in our bureaucracy. This is especially true in the Justice Department and in our national security apparatus at this time.

[villager]

60. JD, it's true that there are deeply institutional assaults on our civil liberties, that transcend

...party and administration.

What's been disheartening is to see how each Democratic administration, including -- especially, given the time in which he was elected, and his rhetoric on the campaign trail? -- this one.

Expanded wiretapping, assaults on medical marijuana, going after journalists -- and all this White House can think of doing is running after Republicans to curry favor.

[Nye Bevan]

59. What's the point of being in government if you can't sic the IRS on your enemies?

And you know what, Guantanamo ain't so bad after all. And drones? Meh. Obviously we can trust President Obama to decide who gets to live and who gets to die. And it's not like there's ever going to be another Republican president to abuse this power.

[Octafish]

61. Loyalty Oafs.

Must. Prove. Loyalty. Must. Prove. Loyalty. Must. Prove. Loyalty. Must. Prove. Loyalty. Must. Prove. Loyalty. Must. Prove. Loyalty. At all Times. No matter the Cost. To Democracy.

[villager]

62. +1

n/t

[Marr]

70. +1

[Skittles]

89. but it's just OPINIONS, don't you know?

they are worse than the gun humpers!

[woo me with science]

117. Loyalty. Obedience.

And adorable, radiant dogs.

The Contentment Ration has been increased!

[WillyT]

126. ROFLMAO !!! - K & R !!!

Perfect !!!

:evilgri:

[Junkdrawer]

128. Pain avoidance

Post x and the hordes descend.

Hell, I just posted a "Third Parties are not necessarily good" thread, and the anti-Third Party hordes descended.

Didn't read my post. Guess some auto-response thingy went off.

[Hekate]

65. I consider the source(s). The MSM is tainted by bias to the GOP, & the GOP is hellbent on destroying

...& the GOP is hellbent on destroying Obama and blocking everything he does. Considering the amount of outrage toward Obama going on at all times, and considering how much of each instance of outrage has been found to be FALSE, it seems the intelligent thing to wait for all the FACTS.

If that is being an apologist, count me in.

[Vietnameravet]

81. Add my name

The GOP has cried "Wolf" long enough...we know what their goal is and we know the tactics they use. I dont believe anything they say...not a word .. Why would I believe a bunch of KKK'ers talking about a black man?

[emulatorloo]

120. +1. And hellbent DU'ers are more than happy to jump on the GOP/Bandwagon

Very interested to see the facts come out.

[Hekate]

125. I think some will actually feel justified...

... when the GOP trumps up enough lies to start impeachment proceedings. I grow more cynical by the day.

[Politicub]

68. Because we're waiting for the facts

The IRS scandal and Benghazi talking points issue were a rush to judgement, as we're starting to see. Both issues were pushed by the GOP for political ends.

Unlike many on DU I'll hold off on my moralizing until more facts are known.

[treestar]

74. So people who don't agree with you on everything are all the things you say in your post?

All is needed for you is a statement or accusation and you believe it lock, stock and barrel?

Many of the outrages on the board have not held up to scrutiny, thus, they become less and less believable especially when they come from the same posters.

[texshelters]

76. How about some examples?

Just saying it doesn't make it so. That's a tactic used by those trying to manipulate us: create outrage without backing it up.

PTxS

[woo me with science]

79. This board is heavily propagandized.

Corporate government has very deep pockets. We are relentlessly propagandized to accept a new authoritarian "normal."

Even before these scandals, there has been a creepy uptick in posts cheerfully announcing that we don't need these silly civil liberties and protections. It's worth noting that these posts come from the same, predictable group that defends every single corporate and war outrage coming from this administration.

I don't buy for a moment that Americans don't still cherish things like freedom of the press and freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. Every poll shows that we are angry as hell and feel assaulted on all sides and *not* represented by our own government.

IMO it's important to keep bringing the discussion back to the fundamentals: We are talking about our fundamental rights, freedoms, and civil protections here. We need to call out the garbage when we see it and expose the bids to circle the Red and Blue wagons around unconscionable violations of our freedoms as the manipulative propaganda they really are..

[Phlem]

83. !

What you said!

and thanks for the sanity break.

-p

[daleanime]

91. +1

[NorthCarolina]

127. Hammer meet nail.

[emulatorloo]

129. This board is heavily propagandized by Pot-Stirrers

and GOP operatives masquerading as "Leftists," ala Richard Nixon's "rat-fucker" program.

My guess is Crossroads spends heavily here. Rove learned from the masters.

[Cal Carpenter]

84. This is a partisan website

First and foremost.

The public face (and no, I don't specifically mean Obama but he contributes to this) of the Dem party is becoming more clearly center/center-right, aside from a few social issues and nominal bits of legislation. When it comes to economics and all the things that protect the status quo in that realm (including foreign policy, budgets, health care, protection of civil liberties that protect freedom of speech and the press, and so forth), the Dems in federal power will do the things that will keep things moving in that center-right direction. It should be no surprise that the DU population is reflecting that.

It is a partisan website, first and foremost.

[ProSense]

85. I notice

Why are there so many apologists on this board for the civil liberties overreaches of this...
...administration?

Disgusting and appalling. The kind of groupthink for the other side that used to be justifiably noted, parodied, and made fun of on this board.

Until many posters on this board realized -- Pogo-like -- that they have seen the political toadying, and it was them.

... people who buy whatever the media and anti-Obama sources are selling.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022843810

Maybe on a discussion board, there will be disagreements. Learn to live with them and defend your arguments.

A thread simply to scream "apologists" and "groupthink" and vehemently demand that people accept your POV seems ironically authoritarian.

[Addison]

94. Because the enemy of my enemy is my friend even when he is also my enemy

[timdog44]

95. My opinion.

And I know I will get jumped. I find this thread disgusting.

Find all the evidence and turn it over to the authorities. Lets get him impeached and be done with it.

[MetasticTwine]

98. +1

Some on this forum hate PBO as much as the wingnuts hate him.

[golfguru]

96. My knee jerk reaction was...

It is not so bad to use every means possible against the Teabaggers.

On second thought, civil liberties is what makes our country better than
others. No jack booted thugs in my country!

[Proud Liberal Dem]

99. Maybe some of us want to wait for all the facts to come out first before freaking out?

I'd be loathe to trust anything that crawls out of the woodwork right now at the moment, particularly if it is right-wing based.

[timdog44]

102. My thoughts

exactly.

[nadinbrzezinski]

103. When politics is a sport...you will defend your team

no matter what.

[H2O Man]

104. Fair question.

I'll begin my answer by saying that I think there are several sub-groups on DU. There are the people who are here for no good reason; hence, there is no good reason to consider what they are here for. Then, there are good people who, in all sincerity, are always in a "pro-Democratic Party" mindset. They are convinced, and not without some very good reasons, that anything the republicans are for, they must be against ..... and that anything republicans are against, they are for.

Thus, when republicans cluster like flies around anything a Democrat in office does, they tend to dismiss the very possibility that the Democrat might have done something wrong.

The truth is that the conflict between all three branches of the federal government and the "free press" -- or, Amendment 1 -- has long been fought most frequently by the executive branch. This is merely part of the executive branch's on-going attempts to limit our constitutional rights ..... primarily those found in the Bill of Rights .... and it has included some Democrats, among more numerous republicans.

I believe those expressing support of the Attorney General's Office -- and indeed, the Obama administration -- on virtually everything are sincere. But they are wrong.

[timdog44]

111. Not a fair question.

Signed - sealed - delivered in your eyes.

There not being any real facts yet, and actually there are some real facts if you would listen to them and read them, it is disingenuous to side with anyone but the party and the administration. Period.

[humbled_opinion]

106. Geez can we at least wait....

for the facts and investigation to be completed before we grab the torches and pitchforks.....

[John2]

107. So we are suppose to be

crying for the GOP and the Media. I will tell you what, the GOP has been violating my Rights and the Media has assist them. If that answer is not acceptable to you, then I don't know what will be? You are talking about a group that suppressed Voter's Rights and are trying to double down instead of treating people with respect and you ask us to defend them?

You are talking about a Media that consistently echos the Right's propaganda without doing real investigation. The Media does not tell the whole truth, starting with Iraq and how they let Bush get away with his lies, including Cheney. With me, my anger against them has been built up over years even back to the Clinton years. And I definitely don't like their drumbeat about entitlements. As far as I'm concerned, it is not the Democrats or Obama the major problem with this country but who you are defending. Even right up to the Highest Court in the Land which they try to attack my rights. And you ask us to defend them! It will be a cold day in Hell before I do. Boehner might had been joking but I hope they are annihilated. I don't like them just as much as they don't like me Sir!

[Eddie Haskell]

108. Same sheep

different color of wool. The big bad wolf is LHAO.

[Skip Intro]

110. Some put party above everything.

And only see this from the standpoint of how it affects Obama and/or Democrats in general, and are willing to ignore, mock, and try to spin away any news they see as negative. As if that will make it not so.

Others here, myself included, place country and principle above party, and react honestly to news of flagrant disregard of civil liberties and the bill of rights, and abuse of power.

[woo me with science]

124. Thank you. nt

[Douglas Carpenter]

112. "Americans" who criticize our country during time of war are giving aid and comfort to the enemy

and are traitors!! Why don't they just move to Benghazi if they love it so much there??

Well it's pretty same boneheaded thinking.

[AAO]

114. A spade is a spade no matter who holds the hand.

That's a long way to say "I agree!".

[bhikkhu]

121. Perhaps "Thanks, Obama!?!" isn't always the right response to a problem

...as many things that happen in this country aren't under the direct control of the president.

Not knowing exactly what you're talking about, the IRS probe comes to mind, which so far looks like a middle-management thing that the IRS chief found out about late. And Benghazi as well, where you have a combination of congress cutting security funding, the ambassador himself (who was directly responsible for security) dying tragically, the military doing its best under unexpected circumstances, and the president having no particular direct role.

Maybe there is groupthink defending Obama, but perhaps it because we're used to the media screwing things all up (for money), the RW screwing things all up (out of hate), and people in general jumping the gun because most of the time its more fun to rant about things before the facts are known.

[emulatorloo]

123. Why is there a handful of loud DU'ers so eager to join the Rightwing Noise Machine?

[Turborama]

130. Locking

Host consensus is that this is a violation of the "No whining about DU." clause of GD's SOP.