General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAnyone else sensing a HUGE zit-pus of covered up lies working its way to the surface?
And, before all is done, BOTH parties will be scarred.
Want to know how Third Parties emerge? You're looking at it.
And that Third Party may NOT be a nice Liberal party, in fact, odds are it won't. The Media, the Money... much more likely to see some crazy Brown Shirt party than, say, the Greens in the 'Merica of 2013-2014-2015-2016.
May you live in interesting times.
tridim
(45,358 posts)They didn't make up the lies.
Both parties DON'T do it.
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)GOD, can't post anything here without it being pidgeon-holed into the usual talking points/counter talking point slots.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)as compared to the other 20% extremists who don't like the demographic change coming in.
it's evident.
MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)Clinton would win by the same narrow margin that any candidate on either side would win with in this polarized country. If you think Republicans are going to vote for her you're insane. They hate her with a burning passion. Demographics are on the Democratic side in Presidentials for sure but expecting 50 million Republicans to also vote for her is a pipe dream.
118 million people voted last year. 131 million in 2008. Your numbers make no sense.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Third party voters may as well not vote in a national election. All they do is take away votes from one of the other parties and then someone wins by less than 50%.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Shivering Jemmy
(900 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)but the "Spin" will be something to watch.
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)And God help us if it's more than Jay Walking.
Spin indeed.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)it's distressing...but, seems to be what it is. I think we walk another step to some kind of "Break Through" or "Enlightenment."
At least...I hope so...!
Hekate
(90,202 posts)Creates a lot of damage; destroys people's lives; creates nothing. The GOP is awfully good at it by now. I don't know why anyone in their right mind would believe them any more.
FSogol
(45,363 posts)Sorry. Your dream of 3rd parties won't come true.
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)With the Media and Big Money being what it is, the prospect of a Third Party scares the shit out of me.
Hekate
(90,202 posts)"Both sides" are not doing it. Good luck with that.
The current "scandals" are par for the course with the GOP. They have been at it for 20 years, in case you do not remember the Clinton administration.
The GOP is desperately trying to find something -- anything, any lie -- that will stick long enough for them to impeach Barack Obama. And it will all be founded on lies.
apples and oranges
(1,451 posts)GOP says jump and we say, "How high?" There are some similarities between the parties, but all the so called scandals of late are a direct result of GOP actions (cutting aide to embassies, demanding investigations on AP leaks, setting up a bunch of tax exempt tea party organizations, and the list goes on).
KoKo
(84,711 posts)Twice. WE DID IT! HOW HIGH? We jumped...but, we never got a "Treat" either time.
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)and it comes up as anti-Obama.
apples and oranges
(1,451 posts)We didn't get everything yet, but we got a hell of a lot. And the republican agenda has mostly been stopped. But, since you didn't get 100%, then I guess we're doomed. Vote for fucking Rand Paul, Jeb, or whoever the hell you think can do better under the same circumstances. Let's see how that works out!
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Corporate Democrats pretend, ludicrously, that Republican obstructionism is the main problem.
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10022786386
The REAL main problem is that Wall street has purchased both parties.
The vast majority of the betrayals on this list had nothing to do with Republican obstructionism:
Corporate and bank-cozy appointments, over and over again, including major appointments like:
A serial defender of corrupt bankers for the SEC; the architect of "Kill Lists" and supporter of torture, drone wars, and telecom immunity for the CIA; and a Monsanto VP who has lied and been involved in extremely disturbing claims regarding food safety for the FDA. An Attorney General who has not prosecuted a single large bank but wages war against medical marijuana users and *for* strip searches and warrantless surveillance of Americans. And let's not forget Tim Geithner.
Bailouts and settlements for corrupt banks (with personal pressure from Obama to attorneys general to approve them),
Refusal by Obama's DOJ to prosecute even huge, egregious examples of bank fraud (i.e, HSBC)
signing NDAA to allow indefinite detention,
"Kill lists" and claiming of the right to assassinate even American citizens without trial
Expansion of wars into several new countries
A renewed public advocacy for the concept of preemptive war
Drone campaigns in multiple countries with whom we are not at war
Proliferation of military drones in our skies
Federal targeting of Occupy for surveillance and militarized response to peaceful protesters
Fighting all the way to the Supreme Court for warrantless surveillance
Fighting all the way to the Supreme Court for strip searches for any arrestee
Supporting and signing Internet-censoring and privacy-violating measures like ACTA
Support for corporate groping and naked scanning of Americans seeking to travel
A new, massive spy center for warrantless access to Americans' phone calls, emails, and internet use
Support of legislation to legalize massive surveillance of Americans
Militarized police departments, through federal grants
Marijuana users and medical marijuana clinics under assault,
Skyrocketing of the budget for prisons.
Failing to veto a bipartisan vote in Congress to gut more financial regulations.
Passionate speeches and press conferences promoting austerity for Americans
Bush tax cuts extended for billionaires, them much of it made permanent
Support for the payroll tax holiday, tying SS to the general fund
Support for the vicious chained CPI cut in Social Security and benefits for the disabled
Social security, Medicare, and Medicaid offered up as bargaining chips in budget negotiations, with No mention of cutting corporate welfare or the military budget
Advocacy of multiple new free trade agreements, including The Trans-Pacific, otherwise known as "NAFTA on steroids."
Support of drilling, pipelines, and selling off portions of the Gulf of Mexico
Corporate education policy including high stakes corporate testing and closures of public schools
Entrenchment of exorbitant for-profit health insurance companies into healthcare, through mandate
Legal assault on union rights of hundreds of thousands of federal workers
New policies of targeting children and first responders in drone campaigns,
New policies of awarding medals for remote drone attacks,
Appointment of private prison executive to head the US Marshal's office
Massive escalation of federal contracts for private prisons under US Marshall's office
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Hekate
(90,202 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
PufPuf23
(8,689 posts)I'm too old and unwilling to change and would rather fix our own Party.
I don't want Ms. Clinton in 2016 but a liberal woman would be great as POTUS in 2016.
POTUS Obama is likely going to be under fire the remainder of his term.
Odd how POTUS Obama told us to hold his feet to the fire and ignored many that have put him in office twice.
A third party would be ugly and likely very right wing.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)I think it will come.. a Third Party...not now. But, it will come. Us older Dems have seen too much in our life times not to know that ONE DAY some REAL CHANGE will come.
For now...I stick to the voting for ALL ELECTIONS which some of the younger Dems forget about...and blame US Lib Dems for 2010 where the Tea Party took over? It was NOT OUR DOING...it was the Obama for America who didn't get the Young to Show Up.
The Young will Figure it Out...just like WE DID growing up with VietNam...Nixon...and trying and trying to find a Dem who would be like FDR or at least not a Toady for MIC!
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)The first point (which I was HORRIBLY unclear about) is that we're seeing Democratic scandals now, way way bigger Republican scandals are just around the corner. Since you posted on my Benghazi and "The Innocence of Muslims" thread, probably you knew where I was going. Obviously, few others did. My fault.
The second point, which I thought was clear, is that until we de-Fox the media, if there is a Third Party, it will probably be bad. I can't see a Progressive party being anything but trashed at the current time by the Corporate Media.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)But, these days we often seem to talk past one another in speed read or whatever. I'm often guilty of that, also.
I thought your post was worth a reply and that's why I answered it. It was an interesting read.
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)will reject our Pravda-like media and move forward. I'm not so sure.
But, hey, in 1964, say, who saw the Counter-Culture coming? Perhaps you're right.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)I'm hoping it will be SOONER rather than Later...but...resigned to "Later."
Still...as a banned DU'er used to say: "Gotta Keep on Truckin'"
And, that's a good thing to do, imho. I figure I'll keep going until there isn't any more to "keep Going." RUEFUL...
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)Everyone pushes on DIFFERENT parts of the wall until some finds the weaknesses. THEN, and only then, do we come together for a while and all push on the weak spots.
But all the millennials are self-possessed, don't cha know.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)Tim DeChristopher...and what you said:
Everyone pushes on DIFFERENT parts of the wall until some finds the weaknesses. THEN, and only then, do we come together for a while and all push on the weak spots.
He gave that talk only a block from where I used to live on West 13th Street in NYC...Many Years Ago...
I wish I was back there...many times. But, other times I figure I am where I am in Republican Country for a reason. He's where he is now for his reason..as I was way back then.
Yes...there are so many bright lights out there. Moving along..forward.
It's good ...it will be better one day.
Thanks for the Video...it was a good reminder never to give up.
PufPuf23
(8,689 posts)Like your posts in general. Thank you for your DU content.
ananda
(28,783 posts)This too shall pass.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)Read, people, it does NOT say that both parties do it.
Nor does it advocate 3rd party. All it says is that a 3rd party could arise, which would make things "interesting". Not "good". "Interesting" is what Hunter S. Thompson would want to report about.
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)Neither are good.
I assume people know these things. I assume too much.
Thank you.
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)Repukes lie. Repukes are fucking bigots. Repukes refuse to govern and fuck everything up. THAT is what will come out of all this shit.