GOP raffling AR-15 “Sandy Hook”-type rifles as macabre pro-gun stunt

[deminks]

http://americablog.com/2013/05/gop-giving-away-free-ar-15-sandy-hook-rifles-as-pro-gun-stunt.html

Nothing says “I’m responsible enough to own a gun” than Republicans who mock the deaths of 20 first and second graders by raffling off AR-15s, the very gun used at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut.

But that’s what Republicans and pro-gun groups, including GOP members of Congress, are doing nationwide in a macabre show of force for their right to be bear arms that mass-murder children.

Republican member of Congress Steve Stockman of Texas got some attention this week for offering a free AR-15 Bushmaster assault rifle as a raffle prize on his campaign email list. In the same email, he calls President Obama a “socialist.” Which in Republican circles means the same thing as “communist,” which also means the same thing to Americans as “Soviet.” In other words, Stockman is actually suggesting that President Obama is a dictator puts his opponents to death. Keep that in mind when you hear Republicans use the term “socialist.” It’s far crazier, and dangerous, a usage than you might even realize.

(snip)

But it’s not just Stockman.

(snip)

In Maryland, Republican delegate, Don Dwyer, is raffling off an AR-15 and an AK-47 on his campaign Web site. The site includes a comment from someone quoting Sandy Hook trutherism, namely that Adam Lanza didn’t use an AR-15 because the authorities found it locked in his trunk after the attack. As Snopes shows, that’s a lie. They found a shotgun in his trunk, he used the AR-15 to murder the kids.

(end snip)

But, of course, let us wallow in faux scandals day after day rather than deal with the work of the people. /sarcasm off

[HappyMe]

1. Horrible asshats.

Sounds as if they are mocking tragedies.


As far as the 'scandals' go, we can focus on more than one issue at a time.

[justanidea]

2. I don't think you can really say they are doing it to "mock" the dead.

The AR is the most popular and best selling rifle in the U.S.. Has been for years. There are dozens and dozens of manufacturers both big and small, nationwide who make them. Go to the rifle section of a gun store and you'll see 10 times more AR rifles than you do anything else.

It's really not surprising that it would get chosen for a raffle.

[NightWatcher]

4. Yes, they've proved to be such nice guys

They've openly mocked the "whining" parents of Newtown. They've posed with cardboard targets that resemble Nancy Pelosi....

But I'm sure they're just raising...what money? gun awareness? They are doing this to flaunt the gun in people's face.

They are trying to out teabag each other and see who can be the biggest antagonist.

[justanidea]

10. You seem to be assigning the actions of a few nutcases to everyone.

"They"

By "they" are you referring to all gun owners?

Don't you think that might be a bit of an overgeneralization?

[aquart]

35. Judged by the company you keep.

And elect.

900,000 gun deaths seems like a "few nutcases" to you? Seems like a deadly steel penis outbreak to me.

[HappyMe]

45. LOL!

Of course. The well reasoned 'penis' argument.

[NightWatcher]

47. No, the GOP asshats who are stirring up shit by raffling off AR's

[premium]

48. The only people they're stirring up are people like you.

As long as a proper background check is done, then what's the problem? Nevada gun stores do this frequently for charities.

[billh58]

55. Ah, there's that NRA

talking point again. A true NRA apologist attempts to twist ANY criticism of right-wing, cold-dead-hands, gun nuttery into a criticism of "ALL gun owners."

"ALL gun owners" do not own AR-15s. "ALL gun owners" are not against any and all forms of gun control. "ALL gun owners" are NOT fucking right-wing Republican shit-for-brains NRA puppets.

Sensible, responsible, and reasonable American gun owners are NOT a part of the irresponsible "they" that NRA apologists presume to represent. Most sensible, responsible, and reasonable American gun owners despise the anti-American NRA and its cold-dead-hands nut jobs as much as we sensible, responsible, and reasonable non gun owners do.

[Lizzie Poppet]

5. It's not the only vacuous statement in the article.

The incredibly tortuous chain of "logic" trying to say Stockman* is calling Obama a murderous dictator, for example...


*Not that Stockman isn't an idiot. He is...but that ridiculous assertion about what's meant when someone calls Obama a "socialist" is no less idiotic.

[otohara]

34. First Time Ever A Congressman

has done this....why do you suppose he's doing it?

Hint: He hates the president and....

[AlinPA]

44. Not really "mocking". IMO, more like a GOP celebration. Celebrating that no new laws were enacted

Last edited Thu May 16, 2013, 02:03 PM - Edit history (1)

and nothing is being done to stop more killings like the murders of the children in Newtown. It really looks like the massacres increase gun sales and that makes them benefit the NRA-GOP and Gun Industry.

[Hoyt]

51. And that's the problem, too many yahoos interested in those damn assault weapons.

Here it is again, a line of yahoos lined up at an Atlanta gun show just one week after Sandy Hook hoping for a chance to fondle an "assault weapon," however you choose to define one.

[premium]

54. So predictable Hoyt,

so predictable. The only reason for that line is because of people like you who immediately called for a ban on assault weapons, so, if you carry this to it's logical conclusion, you and your fellow travelers are responsible for lines like this.
Congratulations, the firearms manufacturers thank you for the increase in profits.




Now, I'm not one of those that thinks there should be no gun control laws, neither am I one of those that wants every gun control law just short of an outright ban, here's a few laws I would support:

1. Universal Background Checks.
2. Magazine capacity limit modeled on the recently passed CO. law.
3. More funding to states for better reporting of prohibited persons to the NICS.
4. More funding for mental health care.
5. More stringent enforcement and stiffer penalties for straw purchases.
6. A National FOID card, like what Illinois has.
7. Safe Storage laws.

That's just a few things I would definitely support, their might be others, I would have to take a close look at them.
Unlike you, I'm flexible when it comes to gun rights/control.

[Recursion]

3. It's the best-selling rifle in the US for the past 2 decades

That's one of those cultural disconnects here; to a lot of people this isn't the "Sandy Hook rifle", it's just the most commonly bought rifle in the country.

[HappyMe]

7. So are raffles like this pretty common?

Are we just hearing about this stuff now because of the gun control debate and Sandy Hook?

I really don't know squat about guns.

[Recursion]

8. I don't know that gun raffles are terribly common, but the ones I've seen are all AR-15s

Are we just hearing about this stuff now because of the gun control debate and Sandy Hook?

Probably? It's kind of a mutual culture-war tweaking, in my opinion. The raffle winner still has to pass a background check.

It's a popular gun, which is probably why Lanza's mother had one. It was legal under the 1994 assault weapons ban and Feinstein changed the text in her attempt this year to make it illegal based on the shape of its grip (specifically its grip, not its ability to shoot X rounds in Y seconds). So the result would be AR-15's with a different grip shape. Yay?

[HappyMe]

13. I think you are probably right about the

culture war tweaking. At least the winner has to pass a background check.

I suppose Feinstein was just trying to get done what she thought was do-able. Maybe in the hope that the factories would have to change the production line and delay more sales.

I really wish that the number of rounds per second thing could be dealt with. I think that the extremists on both sides may be preventing any reasonable discussion from taking place. Something has to happen here.

[Recursion]

19. I'm torn on that

I really wish that the number of rounds per second thing could be dealt with.

It's a thought, but three things come to mind

1. Pretty much all semi-automatics with detachable magazines fire at the same speed
2. That's a technology that's over 100 years old and includes a lot of what people indisputably agree are "hunting rifles" (wooden finish, traditional grip, etc.) as well as every handgun that's not a revolver; more than that, it's about 3 quarters of privately owned guns, and virtually 100% of new sales for the past 20 years or so
3. As horrific as mass shootings are, the 99.9999% of gun homicides that are "normal" shootings almost never need more than the first or second bullet.

I don't think banning semi-automatics with detachable magazines is unconstitutional, but I think it would exact a huge political cost and fail to address the main problem, which is urban handgun crime.

[HappyMe]

22. Well, this is why I generally

stay out of the gun debates. I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

[Recursion]

26. Meh. Everybody has a right to an opinion

I wish the anti-gun-control "side" were less eager to vomit forth technical details at the drop of a hat. I try to only do it when it's pretty much central to the question, which unfortunately it becomes too often. If I had to sum up my views in a sentence it would be:

I'm much more concerned about who has a gun than what particular gun they have.

Which is why I'm much more interested in universal background checks on buyers than on feature restrictions on weapons themselves. Actually there are a lot of parallels to the pit bull arguments here, which doesn't bode well for civility, sad to say...

[HappyMe]

30. I agree.

Who has the gun and I also want to know how they got it. Did they steal it, or does it belong to them.

I have to admit that the lack of civility in the discussions keeps me out of them.

[AlinPA]

49. Your concern is the same as mine. WHO has the gun, vs which gun.

[premium]

28. Ahhh,

but it's a good thing that you're willing to learn the basics, which is what's needed here.
I happen to agree with what you said in an earlier post, extremists from both sides have made a reasoned debate on reasonable gun control without trashing the 2A nigh onto impossible.

[HappyMe]

31. I think getting rid of the

2nd amendment and confiscation is one of the kookiest ideas out there.

With guns there is so much technical stuff - it's not like an essay question on a literature test where you can slip a little bullshit in.

[premium]

21. I think you're right about Sen. Feinstein,

the problem was that it poisoned the well for other measures that could have passed.
She knew from the start that her AWB and mag. limit had no chance of passing, Sen. Reid told her that from the beginning, yet she had to do it and what we got was a big, fat, zero on new gun control law.

Every proposal put forward got the majority vote except her AWB:40 yeas/60 nays, and her mag. limit:46 yeas/54 nays.
So, in essence, I blame her and Reid, her for putting forward that which she knew couldn't pass and galvanized the pro 2A people, and both her and Reid for not reforming the filibuster in the Senate.

[HappyMe]

27. It would have been better for them

to wait and propose something that was agreeable.

I agree with what you said.

[Bake]

33. I hope they at least do a background check on the raffle winner ...

Bake

[Pholus]

9. Don't forget the GOP raffle 8 months after Gifford was shot -- in her district.

Of the same brand of gun used to shoot her and the others.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alex-brantzawadzki/az-republicans-celebrate-_b_943014.html

There is a certain type of tone deafness (bad) or twisted gunner humor (worse) behind it.

[Recursion]

11. Except that article points out it was a different gun

Giffords was shot with a 3rd generation Glock 19 (a relatively cheap handgun) and they were raffling a 4th generation Glock 23 (a very expensive handgun).

EDIT: I kind of want to clarify something. This isn't a "you don't know X Y and Z about guns so shut up" post. I'm trying to point out that the way different people around the country view certain guns is very different, often based on their familiarity with them.

[Pholus]

14. Darnit, you added reason AFTER I posted a reply.

As the article says, even members of the Pima County GOP were thinking it was a bit off.

Pima elections been having a flair for Palin-esque "Don't retreat, reload" style rhetoric.

It may appeal to a certain type of voter, but the eliminationist undertones are in poor taste.

[Recursion]

16. Sorry! I edit too much sometimes

I just didn't like leaving that how it was.

[Pholus]

18. Thanks. I appreciate that. nt

[Pholus]

23. I have to stop editing over.

When it comes to eliminationist rhetoric, I'm overly sensitive.

Come by that honestly. While I was a kid, disagreeing with my conservative gunloon brothers led them to constantly describe in great detail how they'd put me up against the wall (or take me behind the barn, or whatever tickled their fancy at the moment) when the revolution came.

So, anytime I hear that kind of talk ("Get on target" to remove Giffords from office -- before the shooting at least) I have a VERY strong sense that there is other unpleasant offal lurking beneath the surface.

[aquart]

39. It was a GLOCK. Sufficient for breathtaking insensitivity.

[Recursion]

41. Glock is popular because it makes good weapons

Civilians like them for the same reason police departments like them.

[justanidea]

12. I remember that.

Not really surprising either.

Glock is one of the most popular brands of handguns in the U.S. I would say 7/10 (or more) police departments in the U.S. use Glocks. If you go to a gun forum and ask "I want to buy my first handgun. What would you recommend?" I bet one of the first responses you get will be something along the lines of "You can't go wrong with a Glock."

That Glock raffle occurred over 6 months after the shooting. I highly doubt the raffle was an intentional attempt to mock the shooting.

I think people are trying to to fabricate connections where there are none.

[HappyMe]

15. I think it's as Recursion said,

a kind of culture war tweaking/rub your nose in it kind of thing.

It's a fucking shame. Stuff like this doesn't help a reasonable dialog from emerging at all.

[oldhippie]

17. Well, yeah, everywhere I've ever lived ...

I remember gun raffles at the Polish Sportsmen's Club in upstate NY back in the 60's when I was a teenager. The volunteer fire company I belonged to had a gun raffle every year at the summer fireman's picnic.

I've lived in NY, GA, MS, CA and TX. Everywhere I have ever been various sportsmen's clubs, police departments, fire houses, Boy Scouts, and schools have held gun raffles. Back in the day they were usually shotguns and .22 rifles, but as was mentioned, today's most popular rifle is the AR platform.

Even when I lived in Germany gun raffles were common at the local shooting clubs.

[HappyMe]

20. Well, sportsman's clubs make sense.

Like I said, I don't know anything about guns, so I had no idea how common raffles are.

[premium]

25. They're pretty common here in Nevada also,

gun stores will raise money for charities by raffling off firearms.

[TheMightyFavog]

32. Every year at our county fair, one of the local VFW chapters does one.

Though I don't think they've ever done an AR-15. Usually usually they offer a nice bolt-action deer rifle and a couple pump action hunting shotguns, a couple of .22 rifles and cash and free stuff donated from local businesses as prizes.

[HappyMe]

38. My uncle used to hunt

deer and pheasants. He belonged to a sportman's club.

One of my sons also hunts (he lives in WI). He keeps his rifle or whatever at a friend's house. They have a room where there is a vault type safe where the guns are kept. It's one of those rooms that you have to know that the door is there to actually find it. I was pretty impressed at how secure it was. There are any kids in the house. They only buy ammo when they are going skeet shooting or hunting.

[aquart]

36. To use for what? Killing ants at picnics?

[Recursion]

40. Target shooting and hunting small animals mostly

It's a low-caliber lightweight rifle, so you wouldn't take it after deer or anything, but people use it for coyotes, groundhogs, etc. But mostly it's used just for target shooting.

[aquart]

42. It's a squirrel gun? That's the story?

[Recursion]

43. I don't know about squirrels so much, but .223 is not a round for large game

Like I said, it's not usually hunted with in the default chambering, and people usually don't hunt with carbines to begin with, but it does see some use particularly against "pest" animals like coyotes and groundhogs. Again, in case you missed it the last few times, it's primarily used for recreational target shooting.

[Hoyt]

52. Again, that indicates a problem -- too many yahoos coveting most lethal weapons available to them.

[Pholus]

6. Yup, Mr. Drunk Boater Dwyer himself is a pillar of our MD society.

Local news last night had a supporter saying something like "Well who HASN'T operated a boat while intoxicated." I'm sitting there thinking, well......me for starters.

So I am not surprised about the gun raffle. Check out his facebook page if you'd like to barf. It's public with about a hundred followers.

What gets me is that all those "responsible" gun owners will sit there in silence about this raffle because they have their own little version of Reagan's "eleventh commandment" when it comes right down to it.

[JoePhilly]

24. Massacres are great (free) Marketing Opportunities.

The Gun Industry and the NRA don't need to even advertise.

They just wait for the next massacre and then reap the profits.

[AlinPA]

46. I'm now believing that the NRA and Gun Industry (and the GOP) see the massacres as an increase

in business and numbers of guns. They are really crazy now.

[ladjf]

29. The Republicans appear to be proud of their meanness. America, are you paying attention? nt

[Tommy_Carcetti]

37. I'll be okay with them doing that WITH one major caveat:

If they are going to be allowed to fundraise using the raffling off of AR-15 semi-automatic rifles, then they MUST advertise the weapon as such:

"This remarkable AR-15 semi-automatic rifle can be yours for a donation to my campaign. You too can own the same gun used by Adam Lanza to shoot dead 27 people (including 20 school children under the age of 7), not to mention James Holmes in shooting to death 12 people and injuring 58 others and John Allen Muhammed and Lee Boyd Malvo (you all know them as the "Beltway Snipers&quot in their shootings of 13 people (10 fatally). Own your own proud part of the legacy of this most remarkable of weapons!"

If they include that language, then yes, go ahead and raffle away.

[Dawson Leery]

50. Is this an implicit endorsement of Adam Lanza's terror?

[Hoyt]

53. Maybe. But probably more like, "we don't give a flying f%*k how many kids get murdered, I'm

clutching/fondling/loving my guns no matter what."