"I wish those vicious creatures could be banned." ***WARNING: GRAPHIC***

[baldguy]

Last edited Thu May 16, 2013, 11:55 PM - Edit history (1)

"I would sooner trust a neighbor with a gun than I would a neighbor with a pit bull."


http://www.aroundphilly.com/blog/2012/06/26/we-are-officially-horrible-burned-pitbull-dies-reward-doubles/

"I am always reading stories about pit bulls mauling and maiming people."


http://opdogblog.blogspot.com/2010/11/badly-burned-dog-deserves-safe-loving.html

"It seems it's always pit bulls whether they are family pets, feral, guard dogs it doesn't matter. They kill people."


http://dogtime.com/pit-bull-pup-burned-by-acid-is-in-recovery.html

"These dogs prey on the weakest - the old and infirm, or the very young. Dangerous stuff."


http://www.ahscares.org/showarchive.asp?id=999

"Pit Bulls are predators, wild animals. They do not belong in the domestic setting."

"Who really gives a shit if they die out or not?"


http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2010/11/09/news/local_news/doc4cd896ff0e5c4582627628.txt

"I don't hate the breed , I don't hate any dogs. But something needs to change here."

"Like with most everything else, Americans are too fucking stupid and emotional to do the right thing - ban Pit Bulls."


http://www.northjersey.com/topstories/passaic/_Homeless_owner_Polish_Ted_cant_explain_beaten_pit_bulls_wounds_clues_scarce.html

"Pit bulls should be shot on sight."

"Pit Bulls are born and bred to hurt and kill things."


http://dogtime.com/pit-bull-takes-a-bullet-during-home-invasion-saves-owner.html


http://www.examiner.com/article/hero-pit-bull-shot-while-defending-owner?CID=examiner_alerts_article

"I can't stand those dogs."

"They're worthless and need to be gotten rid of."

"When pit bulls bite people, they don't stop biting until whatever they're attacking is dead. This is why they are vicious killers and other dogs... notsomuch."


http://www.azfamily.com/news/Man-arrested-for-animal-abuse-after-puppy-found-with-2-broken-legs-150509275.html



http://www.animals-abused.org/oogy-story.htm

"I've done plenty of reading about pit bulls. The fact is, pit bulls kill more people than any other dogs."

"I like to be informed. I have watched hundreds of videos and I can say with absolute certainty that normal pet breeds do not attack like a pit bull does. My conclusion is that pit bulls are fucking evil as hell and need to be all killed off ASAP for the good of mankind and all the creatures of the world."

"Pitbull deniers sound like the NRA. Or like tobacco companies when they used to claim that cigarettes were good for you."

"I've always considered pitbull owners as compensating for their short comings... if ya know what I mean."


http://chicagoist.com/2013/04/08/pregnant_pit_bull_who_suffered_burn.php

"Most murderous dogs are Pit Bulls or Pit Bull mixes. Not so many Golden Retrievers or Golden Retriever mixes."

"You don't ever see any gang bangers hanging out with golden retrievers."


http://passion4pits.blogspot.com/2011/12/pittie-of-week-lucy-face-you-have-to.html




http://petopitbulls.blogspot.com/2009/08/gypsy-most-beautiful-dog-in-world.html

"Pit Bulls are dangerous animals that should be subject to the same restrictions that wolves and big cats are subject to."

"These dogs are different. Once they maul or kill it's too late to say ʽI'm sorryʼ."


http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/pets/Owner-of-starving-Delco-pitbull-turns-himself-in.html

"They were bred to be fighting dogs, and generations of breeding by some breeders have maintained that trait. So, as a group, they ARE more dangerous than many other dogs."


---------------------------------------------------------

This is the result of holding out a particular group of beings as "worthless", "different", "dangerous", "vicious", "murderous" - when they are none of those things.

Pit Bulls are the most abused animals in the world, and every time someone spreads lies about them they get abused more.

It's just too bad if you can't stomach it. If you're one of the sick fucks who want to indiscriminately ban Pit Bulls, then you are responsible for abuse like this. And you are just as bad as the people who abuse them.

[uppityperson]

1. JFC, what the FUCK is wrong with some people. Appalling. ETA

my sister's mix disappeared and we really hoped she was eaten by a cougar as the alternative was too awful to think of (getting grabbed and used for fighting).

[Drale]

2. Anyone who supports BSL laws

Probably akso think that drug and alcohol prohibition work aka they probably aint very smart.

[joeglow3]

43. What about those who support gun laws

Are they smart?

[Scootaloo]

64. Do you have difficulty telling the difference between an object and an animal?

I hope you're not a pet owner, if so.

What I want from advocates of breed bans to do is, first, take a comprehensive test to see if they can tell breeds and "types" ("pit bull" being the latter rather than the former) apart via appearances. This test will be more comprehensive than this one, including unrecognized breeds, mongrels, and whatnot. Consider that I'm a fan of pit bulls and it took me three tries to get the correct animal.

For those who pass this test - and this will be in the double digits - I want each of them to volunteer at a shelter for two weeks, minimum. I want them to be the one who clips the leash to the dog's collar and brings them to the room to have the animal euthanized. And I want them to stand there, and keep a tally. They don't have to administer the injection or handle the animal aside from leashing it, they just have to watch. And then go get the next one when it's time. And the one after that. Hell, keep three tallies; one tally of every dog brought to the table; a second tally for each of those dogs that could reasonably be mistaken for a pit bull; and a third tally for each of those animals the ban advocate truly believed needed to be destroyed.

If you're going to advocate something, you need to first know what you're advocating, and second, you need to know the product of the advocacy.

I've been that volunteer. And I can tell you, if every single gun on earth were cast into a smelter never to be seen again, I would not shed a single tear for a single one of them. I can't say the same for the dogs I've had to take care of.

[OwnedByCats]

149. You are awesome

Could not have said it any better!

[joeglow3]

168. I have a request of you

Visit this friend of our family and explain to them why we should do nothing to ensure other 4 year olds don't have their bodies torn up and their penis ripped off by a dog. Visit just three people who have been permanently maimed by these dogs and tell me why you are more concerned with a dog than them.

And, since the point went over your head, let me explain it. Gun owners continually tell us it is not the gun, but the owner. This is the exact same thing you are telling me about dogs. It is perfectly reasonable to feel sorrow in those situations. But I guaran-fucking-tee it does not compare to the sorrow you would feel meeting with this young boy.

[Scootaloo]

180. It's a false dilemma

There's no either / or problem there; concern for the people harmed does not translate into advocacy for the deaths of thousands of dogs, nor does advocacy for the proper treatment and perspective towards the dog mean a lack of sympathy for the unfortunate people who have been attacked by some of them.

And again, you are mistaking a living being for a tool. The problem with a gun is that if someone wants to kill someone, the tool is specifically designed to make it as easy as snapping your fingers. Snap, dead, snap, dead. And that is the sole purpose of a gun. That's all it's for, to fire a pellet of metal at high enough velocity to cause significant trauma to a living thing to kill it. Without that purpose, all it is is a funny-looking chunk of metal. It is dangerous no matter the handler or their intent; some hands may be safer holding it, but only because those people are fully cogent that they're handling a dangerous weapon

A dog, on the other hand, is a living, breathing domesticated animal with a mind, with emotions. It will behave according to its training and upbringing. While the gun - an inanimate object, a weapon by design - is always dangerous no matter its owner a dog given care, affection, and training is no more dangerous than any other type of dog given the same. A dog misused, abused, and poorly-trained on the other hand is a frightened feral animal that is either psychologically scarred, or in a constant state of self-defense.

If you scream at your gun and beat it with a stick, it doesn't care. it will never react, it will not become extra-dangerous, it will not behave differently, ever. If you leave it on a shelf and never oil it... it still won't care, it'll stay there and just be a gun gathering dust.

If you scream at and beat a dog? If you tie it up alone and forget to feed and water it, though?

[joeglow3]

182. That is my point

I can beat a gun every day and it will still not harm a person until a human decides to use it. Conversely, I can abuse the shit out a dog and then it will, of its own accord, carry out the kind of damage we have see before.

It is not as if we apply your logic and allow people to own any kind of animal. There are many animals that are effectively kept out of heavily populated areas because of the damage they can dish out on their own. No one is advocating the death of those animals. Just reasonable care to ensure they are not in heavily populated areas.

[Scootaloo]

206. Your point is weird.

Okay, we agree that mistreatment of dogs creates bad dogs, even dangerous dogs. On this, I think you and I can shake hands and admit common ground.

From there though, you veer off into some weird argument where the dog is to be held responsible for what was done to it - and not just that dog, but every dog that shares certain physical traits with it. You seem to assume that abuse is the "default" setting, and that the human in the relationship - the one and only sentient being in hte pair - bears no burden of responsibility.

And no, we don't allow people to own "any kind of animal. However, I think we can agree there is a large difference between any breed of domesticated dog, and captive wildlife, for instance. Or between a dog and the logistical problem of owning a livestock animal. In large part these are animal welfare laws, not "OMGFUCKINGSACARYANIMAL!" laws - Lions weren't banned as pets because they were dangerous (though, good lord, they are, but because the number of people in a given city capable of caring for one and giving it what it needs to be healthy and happy (as happy as we can expect from a captive lion, anyway) can be counted on one hand, without the thumb, and i'll bet most of them are bright, thoughtful people who would be horrified by the thought of a pet lion.

Same too with other "exotics" such as primates, wolves and coyotes, and so on down the line. It's not because they're dangerous (some are, some aren't) but because proper care in a private setting is next to impossible to guarantee. Know why skunks and raccoons aren't allowed as pets? Not because they're particularly dangerous (they're not), or even because they smell bad or something like that. it's simply because existing vaccines aren't proven to work on them. There is no rabies vaccine for raccoons, and skunks have to have both cat and dog vaccines, and it apparently still has something like a 50% chance of just not working. If your cheetah gets sick, who's going to take care of it? Your vet doesn't know a damned thing about how to treat a cheetah, they're not "just a big kitty," after all. What are you going to feed that tamandua, mealyworms for all of its life? etc, etc.

Comparing a domesticated animal to a wild animal is ignorant.

[laundry_queen]

212. Interesting test. Took me 2 tries.

I agree breed bans would be difficult to enforce, especially since 'pit bull type' breeds are many different breeds. Banning only the American Pit Bull Terrier would be stupid if your goal is to reduce fatal dog attacks, and you can't ban 20 breeds (do you ban mixes too? Which mixes? what about a dog that is 50-50 pit bull/golden retriever? What about one that is 25% Akita, 50% Labrador retriever and 25% American Staffordshire terrier?)

BTW completely agree about guns/dogs. Not comparable in any way.

[DirkGently]

232. It's a weirdly eugencist argument, isn't it?

What exactly do people fixated on the supposed evil of one supposed type of dog think we should do with all the mixes, dogs of uncertain origin, etc.., which by the way, would probably constitute most of the supposed vicious "pit bulls" in the world?

Don't breed bans basically go on looks? So good luck if you have an unknown mixed breed with a large head and a muscular build.

Shall we develop a test for the horrible, tainted "pit" blood that makes an animal a bloodthirsty killer?

What kind of thinking is that? Who is so deluded as to think the nature of an animal can be deduced by its appearance or ancestry?

It puts me in mind of a host of horrific pseudo - scientific ideas about humans that have come and gone. Measuring the shape of the skull to define intelligence and all of that.

Don't we know better?

[azurnoir]

217. Thank you

BTW it took me 2 tries and I'm an owner of pit mix my first choice was Presa Canario mainly because of the brindle markings

and we didn't purposely go out chose a pit she came to us via an acquaintance who was having domestic difficulties and wanted to know if we'd take her for a couple of months, when it was time for her owner to take her back-she did not want to leave, she was friendly to him, but when he tried to take her out the door she ran and hid behind my daughter, Ruby made it very obvious where she wanted to be, without so much as a growl

[SheilaT]

89. What are BSL laws?

Not everyone knows what various letters stand for.

[DRoseDARs]

92. Let me Google that for you...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bsl+laws

Anyway, here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breed-specific_legislation

[SheilaT]

100. Thank you.

I am often irritated by the assumption that everyone else knows all the abbreviations out there.

[tblue]

114. I'd never heard of it either.

Neither the acronym nor the term. (I guess you and I didn't do our homework--or else we'd understand the esoteric post. Whoops.)

[Quantess]

220. what is this BSL you are talking about?

I have no idea what BSL stands for.

[OwnedByCats]

148. What it stands for is

Breed Specific Legislation, what it should be called, as I do quite frequently, is Bull Shit Legislation, no pun intended.

[defacto7]

3. The pain and abuse of these creatures is horrifying.

What was the cause of it? What actually caused the primary damage?

It really is utterly terrible that this is allowed to happen.

[baldguy]

6. Of the pics I posted: set on fire, starved, beaten, stabbed, shot, doused in acid, legs broken....

I included a link to go with each of the pics, too. Also, Google has literally millions more stories about Pit Bulls being abused.

[defacto7]

21. It really is a terrible thing.

You said Pit Bull type canines are the most abused animal in the world... I really would like to know the source of this. If there were a specific link for this it may be helpful. If you don't have a link it doesn't mean your claim is not so but I would like to know your source.

I have seen the same abuse of cats, bears, wolves, monkeys, snakes, rats, squirrels, and many other dog breeds; the list is very long. And I have seen much worse treatment than shown as I am sure you could produce of the PBs. My opinion of Pit Bull type canines does not need to be an issue in this particular case. All animal abuse is insane.

[OwnedByCats]

151. All animal abuse is wrong

Are pit bulls the most abused? I don't know to be honest because of misidentification, although generally speaking, those that rescue them tend to know if they are pits or not, they will be more accurate than those who don't have the experience or knowledge on how best to ID a dog. It would not be in the dog's best interest to be inaccurate on their breed since pit bulls are harder to find homes for than most other breeds. What I do see is between the cases that are really pit bulls and those that are assumed to be, it's got to be one of the most frequently reported on as far as abuse cases. Out of approx every 10 dog abuse stories involving dogs that I hear on a very frequent basis is at least 7 of them are reported to be pit bulls - at least in my neck of the woods. I tend to believe that pit bulls are in a higher risk pool for abuse because they have become the new cool dog to have if you're a thug or scum bag dog fighting ring operator. It stands to reason that under those circumstances, it would more likely lead to abuse because these people have a propensity to treat their dogs horrifically.

[Jenoch]

133. Are any of those photos

depicting the results from dog fighting?

[Control-Z]

173. Did someone really say this?

"I like to be informed. I have watched hundreds of videos and I can say with absolute certainty that normal pet breeds do not attack like a pit bull does. My conclusion is that pit bulls are fucking evil as hell and need to be all killed off ASAP for the good of mankind and all the creatures of the world."

Does the link go to this quote? I hope that person is named and feeling some kind of shame.

[baldguy]

174. All the quotes in the OP are taken from DU posts over the last couple weeks.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022848439#post46
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022848439#post56

This particular person was alerted on, and "death to Pit Bulls" post was allowed to stand.

The pics & links in the OP are the results of this type of attitude on Pit Bulls. Anything can be done to these "worthless", "evil", "dangerous" dogs, and the people like the one quoted who advocate this abuse don't care.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

210. I think my posts were allowed to stand because

my opinions were backed up by facts. Don't you see the hypocrisy here? Your opinion's about gun deaths and injuries are also allowed to stand. You are upset because of the human life being maimed and killed by gun violence and you don't beat about the bush with your opinion.

I am upset by the damage being done to people and animals by these monster dogs and I have been allowed to state my opinion..just like you do about guns.

About your pictures; kind heart people like me don't set dogs on fire, chop their heads in half and all that.

People like me want the violence to end and think that getting rid of these dogs, bred for killing their own kind and also anything that moves, would be a step in the right direction. You can get rid of a type of animal by preventing it from breeding again. No need for more cruelty. The cruelty to these dogs has been done by the same people who invented them in the first place and keep breeding them.

Use your common sense now. Would someone who is horrified at the sight of pit bulls tearing into a good decent pet, horse, cow, sheep etc, think it's okay to set dogs on fire?

Pit bull 'fanciers' are doing those things to pit bulls, probably because they weren't good enough in the fighting pit, or some other horrid reason.

BTW; I've been a ethical vegetarian for 40 years. I don't hurt animals. Your kind do by encouraging pit bull ownership and bullshitting people into thinking they are NANNY dogs.

SHAME ON YOU.

[AnnetteJacobs]

227. You're a real work of art.

[DirkGently]

230. What are "these dogs?"

This is the logical disconnect you're having. "These dogs" are not the same as "all of the dogs, everywhere, that anyone may refer to as a 'pit bull.'"

"These dogs" are in reality any powerful animal raised, trained, abused, or encouraged to be dangerous. What exactly do you anticipate could be done vis a vis "pit bulls" in particular? Bear in mind the term refers to three different breeds, their mixes, and anything else anyone refers to by that term.

So you do what? Make it illegal to own a pit bull, Staffordshire Terrier, or American Staffordshire Terrier? Put them all down? Arrest anyone found to have one?

And that will do what? After all the normal, healthy, well-socialized dogs have been eliminated, do you think the thugs and street breeders will have to stop keeping vicious animals? They won't grab a Mastiff or German Shepherd, or Rottweiler, or Presa Canario, or Akita, or Rodesian Ridgeback, or any of a dozen other breeds, and abuse and train them to be savage as well?

Are you prepared to destroy every breed of dog bred for guarding sheep or policework or guard duty, until there are no dogs in the world that, trained and socialized accordingly, could hurt a human being?

How do you plan to measure what breed a mixed-breed dog is, by the way? Will there be mandatory DNA testing? If a dog looks like a pit, but really is a lab / Shepherd mix, do they have to go as well? Do you understand that a lot of vicious dogs are of completely unknown breeding in the first place?

And aren't you the person who thinks Australian Shepherds are great, by the way? Given the savagery and destruction wrought by these needlessly powerful, prey-driven dogs, are you prepared to see them eliminated as well?

http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_sarasota_manatee/bradenton/deputies-man-steps-in-to-help-13-year-old-boy-being-attacked-by-dogs-both-bitten

BRADENTON, Fla. - Two Australian Shepherd dogs are the Grinches who managed to ruin the Christmas holiday for Justin Curtis and his family.
The dogs left him with stitches and on crutches after attacking him on Christmas Eve as he tried to give the mailman a letter his father forget to send out.
"As soon as they got close enough they just sank their teeth right into my right leg," said Justin.
On his bike, Justin tried to fend the dogs off. It didn't work and they ended up dragging him to the ground. During the attack they bit him six times. A bite to his left calf was so bad it exposed muscle.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

209. Yes that was me. Why the hell would I feel shame

because of your cruel pit bull culture?

The pictures and videos of children, men, women, babies and good pets, mauled or killed by these monster dogs should make you ashamed!

The pictures posted by baldguy prove these dogs are killers - monsters. Normal dogs, bred for hundreds of years to be pets, don't fight like this.

These dogs need to be banned. People need to stop breeding them. For the dogs own good and for the sake of humans all over the world and their decent pets.

The pit bull, as a breed, needs to be killed off. I stand behind that statement. I've seen enough of what these monsters are doing.................and it's getting worse!

[Control-Z]

211. Hey. Back off!!

It is not MY cruel pit bull culture! But YOU are attacking me. Don't you dare!

Your comment was unbelievable to me. I thought baldguy was making it up. That is the only reason I asked. I thought he was exaggerating.

It sounds like you are far too emotionally involved to be rational about the subject. I get that. I have my own pet issue. But I have never treated anyone as offensively - even those who disagree with me or say cruel things. And believe me, I win when it comes to the cruel things people say.

So, don't take your problems out on me. You are the one posting over the top declarations.

"The pit bull, as a breed, needs to be killed off." Pit bulls scare the crap out of me. But I don't want to kill them off. There is no creature on this earth I want to kill off.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

214. Yes they need to eliminated.

The world would be a better place without assault dogs.

Has it occurred to you that if people stopped breeding these monsters, that in 15 years they would all be gone?

Pit bulls are worthless in my opinion. I live out-west and often come across rattlesnakes on our ranch/farm, sometimes right outside the door. I take them back to the sage brush, out of harms way, because rattlesnakes are part of nature, they serve a purpose. I never interfere with nature.

Pit bulls are not natural.

Have you ever watched that program about what the world would be like without humans? It occurred to me that all the nice dogs, like mine, would be eliminated by the pit bulls, who were bred to kill their own kind. I think your protection of pit bulls, as you stated, would actually 'kill off' all the decent, sweet and hard working dogs from the face of the earth. Left to their own devices, pit bulls would become nastier and nastier as only the nastiest survived.

I've been a ethical vegetarian for 40 years and it really bothers me to see horses, foals, sheep, dogs, cats, cattle, children and grown ups, killed or crippled for life by these creatures.

[Control-Z]

216. My protection of pit bulls?

Last edited Sat May 18, 2013, 03:32 AM - Edit history (1)

You are imagining things. I don't protect pit bulls, and never have. I gave you the benefit of the doubt - trying to understand that rage and anger you have about this dog breed. And yet you continue to attack me. I probably should have alerted on your first personal attack. Please stop now.

If anything, you owe me an apology.

Edit to add: In case someone was wondering, you wrote:

"My conclusion is that pit bulls are fucking evil as hell and need to be all killed off ASAP for the good of mankind and all the creatures of the world."

[OwnedByCats]

221. Do you honestly believe your own

drivel? If no humans were on earth and only animals, they can't be bred to be a certain way, that's the intervention of PEOPLE. Their development and evolution would be completely natural. Not to mention the fact there would be no "domesticated" animals (also a human intervention only situation), they would all be wild and the natural food chain would commence with them all killing each other. And for the sake of argument, say we weren't here - we just all magically disappeared leaving dog breeds as they are now. You would worry about pit bulls eating all those other sweet dog breeds? They, and pit bulls alike, would more likely be eaten by bears, wildcats, wolves and host of other wild animals higher on the food chain. Do you even know what the hell you're talking about? Good grief.

And an ethical vegetarian? Give me a break, if you had any understanding of animals, you wouldn't speak like this about a breed of dog - calling them monsters. Animals aren't monsters nor are they evil, they are animals. They don't know what's "right" and "wrong". All they know is their instincts and what kind of environment they were raised in that shapes their temperament. You can't hold them to the same intellectual standards as people, oh but that's only pit bulls right? Pit bulls are the only creature who kills people because they are monsters. What a load of bollocks you speak. I've never in my life met an "ethical" vegetarian that would call for the culling of an entire breed based on the actions of a tiny percentage of them - and you do realize, it is a tiny percentage based on the population of them? In countries that have banned pit bulls, and I used to live in one so I know what I'm talking about, Dobermans and Rottweilers are in the top slots for mauling and killing people, should they be slaughtered too? Why do you think that happens? Are Dobermans and Rottweilers just dangerous monsters? No, it's called being a product of their environment. They were trained to be aggressive, maybe not in all circumstances necessarily to kill people, but ultimately in any circumstance where you train a dog to be aggressive, that can have unintended results and that can happen with any dog. There are also those that abuse dogs or not properly socialize them because they are tied up in their backyard most of the time. Again, that is a dangerous thing to do with any animal large enough to maul or kill a person. People have created this problem, not the dogs themselves and someone like you should know that. When I was a kid, Dobies and Rotties were the "dangerous monsters". Now it's pit bulls. The more things change, the more they stay the same. The only difference is the breed of dog, the bullshit still runs rampant.

So pit bulls are "assault" dogs now? Is that like an "assault rifle" or "assault weapon"? Any gun can be used to assault somebody, and any dog can be used to assault people, the damage varies depending on the size and strength of the dog just like the type of gun used. Nobody ever talks about how dangerous pellet guns are, that's because a pellet gun is rarely, if ever, fatal - handguns, AR-15's, whichever you like, are often fatal. Same with dogs. Chihuahuas are one of the most reported to bite people, but we don't consider that an issue because they don't have the capacity to kill. However any medium to large size dog can have much worse consequences. This is why only responsible people should own them.

Pit bulls aren't natural? Well if we're going to go down that road, neither are most (if not all) breeds of dog because their characteristics and breed standards were developed by .... PEOPLE. Not the natural order of things.

When you spend all your free time rescuing pit bulls, or working in a shelter, vet's office, kennel or any other capacity where you are around high numbers of pit bulls - and you still think they are monsters, I'd take you or anyone else with this bigotry more seriously, but none of you have. I've never come across a single person with vast EXPERIENCE with pit bulls, including myself, that shared your opinion. These same people, except for the rare exception, also know what end of the leash to blame for any problem dog, including pit bulls. You evidently don't get that concept either. Before you call for the slaughter of entire breeds of dog, you better know what the fuck you're talking about.

[uppityperson]

215. Blame the victim. Incredible. Out of all those photos, only 2 were caused by other dogs, rest humans

Here is the list of them. WHICH of these prove the dog is the monster? Why should these dogs be killed for being victimized by humans?

Burned
Burned
Acid thrown on
Stabbed
Burned
Cut up by a person
Shot during a home invasion
Abused puppy with broken legs
Abused, tied to a stake for dogs to attack
Burnt
Starved
Attacked by other dogs
Starved

[DRoseDARs]

4. And this is why I simply can not watch Animal Planet. Rage spikes to 11. nt

[Arkansas Granny]

5. Animal abuse is ugly and people who abuse animals should be punished.

However, if pit bills are abused more often than other breeds, it has no bearing on the breed characteristics or their suitability for family pets. It just means that some dogs are unlucky enough to belong to cruel people.

[baldguy]

8. It's the false ideas about "breed characteristics" which bring about the abuse.

Just like every other breed of dog, 99.9999% of Pit Bulls are bred & trained to be members of a human family & live in human society, and are exceptionally successful in that role.

[PD Turk]

23. exactly

I've been living with APBTs as family members for 35 years, my cousin who lives right up the road from me even longer than that. Between the two of us, we have raised and loved a whole lot of these dogs over the decades, rescued some and boarded others for friends and family. In all those years with all those dogs, NOT ONCE has any of them ever bitten, mauled or otherwise attacked anybody.

We know these dogs, we love these dogs and we know what the fuck we are doing with them. 99.9% of the time when they get out of hand, it's because their "owners" are doing it all wrong.

[sarisataka]

24. The last Pit I encountered

was a lady walking one in a park. She worked with rescued pits and was so happy that my wife and I actually approached her to see the dog. Most people either ignored her and the dogs or fled like she was walking some infectious monster.

Very sweet dog. We simply treated her like any other new dog, a couple of get-to-know-you sniffs and a new friend is found.

[OwnedByCats]

155. Have you ever watched the show

"Pit Boss" on Animal Planet? It stars a little person named Shorty Rossi who owns several pit bulls, one of which is his service dog, Hercules.

What you said reminded me of something he talked about regarding Hercules. He travels a lot to pet expo's and what not to help promote the breed. He said when he first started doing this on a national level, he would be at the airport with Hercules and he said it was like the parting of the Red Sea, nobody wanted to get close to him. After all the promoting he's done, now he says that when they're at the airport he often worries he's going to miss his flight because everybody wants to pet him and get a picture. With more awareness comes more acceptance.

I was able to see Hercules when they came to my area and he's so easy going and a very sweet boy. He handles the attention really well.

[sarisataka]

176. I haven't seen that one

but have watched other (the name escapes me) where formed convicts rescue the dogs. The interactions between them all are very interesting to watch.

[OwnedByCats]

178. Yeah that one is "Pit Bulls and Parolees"

That is also a very good show. Tia has one of the largest, if not the largest, pit bull rescue in the country. With her and her 4 adult children and the parolees they hire, they have rescued hundreds.

[blueamy66]

172. And the last pit I encountered bit me

So we are back to square one...

[sarisataka]

177. I have been bit by dogs

but never a pit- so what does that say about other breeds

Whenever I encounter a new dog I keep in mind it is a predator with an unknown temperament. A pit, St Bernard or Great Dane has the ability to do far more damage than a Yorkie, Chihuahua or Pomeranian but all of them can be aggressive.

Dogs and humans have been together for so long the same rules apply: Do not pre-judge, be aware of risk, approach with caution and use common sense

[blueamy66]

179. I don't know what that says about other breeds.

I just know that a pit came after me and my Jack Russell 2 weeks ago and bit me.

I will pre-judge pit bulls from now on. I am aware of risks. I didn't approach the dog; it ran out of its yard and bit me while I was walking my dog in the street.

Common sense? Yeah, put a freaking leash on your dog.

[OwnedByCats]

225. I agree dogs should be properly

contained/restrained, but at the end of the day, the owner was at fault for not controlling their dog.

[kysrsoze]

42. I'd like to see life in prison and daily beatings for people who would do this.

You'd have to be a complete monster to do this to an animal.

[truebluegreen]

7. Keep fighting the good fight, Baldguy.

How many times does it have to be said? " No bad dogs, only bad owners."

--proud "owner" of : Charlie, Girlfriend, Spike and Rover (Doberman / German Shepherd cross; Rottweiler cross; pit bull cross; American Staffordshire Terrier. All large, all black, all rescues, all cupcakes).

[baldguy]

10. How much you wanna bet the dog haters won't appear to post on this thread?

BTW, all of those quotes? They're posts from the vary same dog haters from the last couple weeks on DU.

[truebluegreen]

14. I hear you. And you are right.

Sometimes my rage, at the owners and the "judges" is difficult to contain. Then I think of my pack, and what they need, and I smile and go on.



Some of us understand.

[OwnedByCats]

159. I feel the same as you: rage

Maybe it's because I'm an unapologetic hard ass when it comes to treating animals well because I love animals. Or maybe, on top of that, I witnessed an act of animal cruelty when I was 16 years old. I had never wanted to kill anyone until that happened - I had truly in that moment felt like I snapped. I had to be restrained. 24 years later I still carry around the trauma of that incident and the guilt that although I tried my best, I couldn't save that animal's life. That really did mess me up pretty bad. I just think to abuse the most innocent of creatures (all animals) takes a real special kind of scum bag who should rot in hell. There is no excuse for treating an animal badly.

[truebluegreen]

166. +100

[Boudica the Lyoness]

213. I'm here and I'm a PIT BULL hater.

I hate the fucking monsters. I LOVE normal dogs.....you know, dogs bred for herding, hunting, being good trustworthy pets and all that. I hate creatures that were bred to kill their own kind. Monsters that wag their tails as their victim bleeds out in their jaws. They are being good doggies when they do that because they are doing what they were made for.

Shame on you for promoting these killers!

Also please read my other post to you on this thread. I'm trying my best to make you understand that people like me, who want these dogs eliminated by them never breeding again, want to END the violence. We are disturbed by the cruelty these pit bulls inflict on other animals and humans. The last thing people like me do is set dogs on fire or hurt them in anyway (unless it's self defense and I'm all for defending myself).

It's the PIT BULL CULTURE that is cruel.

[OwnedByCats]

222. Another post full of twaddle

Pit bulls were bred for multiple purposes, to work on farms and be companion animals. And yes, one of them was dog fighting, but not to kill people. Do you know that people who fight dogs do not want people aggressive dogs? Why might you think that is? Gee, so the dog doesn't turn on them eventually maybe? They even admit to killing ones that show any people aggression. If anything, they are more likely to be dog aggressive, I expect you know the difference.

However any time a dog is bred for specific reasons, they don't come out of the womb knowing what their job is. Sure they have characteristics bred into them to aid in their purpose, but they have to be trained. Pit bulls don't come out just wanting to decimate every person they see, which is how people like you make them out to be. Only in extremely rare circumstances is a dog born vicious. Even most fighting dogs can be rehabilitated - ask the people that seized all of Michael Vick's pit bulls. Ask anyone who does that kind of job and they'll tell you most of them aren't even aggressive towards them when they enter a property to confiscate fighting dogs. The people who speak like you, have no vast hands on experience on this subject because first of all, your hate and bigotry refuses to allow objectivity, perspective and an open mind. Just regurgitating the bullshit you read in the media and only trusting sources that railroad pit bulls as evil, vicious monsters. Your ignorance and refusal to even see a little of the other side is no excuse to slaughter millions of dogs who did NOTHING wrong. If one viciously attacks someone, I agree that PARTICULAR dog should be put down for public safety reasons. Serial killers are usually white males, does that mean we kill ALL white males even though a tiny percentage of them like to kill for fun? No, everyone is an individual and that includes our pets. It doesn't make all creatures bad. You think highly enough of animals not to eat them, but you have no problem with lining up every pit bull in the country, even the vast majority who are innocent, and having them put down in a dog style holocaust? Are you freaking kidding me?!

Holy cow, because I don't support the culling of white men because that's who serial killers generally are, I support murder?! Replace that with pit bull and it's the same thing. Whether you want to consider that on a lower scale, fine - but it's the same mentality. Don't accuse us of being supportive of violence when you don't know any of us or what we've done in our lives that helped us come to the conclusions we have because you don't know shit about it.

People like you are too lazy to look at the source of the problem and try to deal with that, you just want to ban shit because you think that's an easy fix. There is no such thing. Cull all the pit bulls you want and thugs will just find another breed to manipulate and they are maligned and people like you call for bans when you find out OTHER dogs are still attacking people. That doesn't take the violence away, it just replaces the medium used. In other countries, thugs use Dobermans, Rottweilers, Mastiffs, German Shepherds and others to replace the pit bull they can no longer get their hands on. These violent acts commited by people, some of whom use a dog as a scape goat, are the root of violence. If you don't deal with the source of the problem, you're still going to have a fucking problem! Prohibition was stupid because it caused more problems than it solved and the drug war is the same. Wanting to ban all guns, not just some of them, won't solve all our violence issues either. People who intend to commit a violent crime will a) keep their weapon even if there was a mandatory hand over because that will give them an advantage because chances are, the person they hurt or kill, will have no means to protect themselves, and really, who gives a shit about breaking some gun laws when they want to kill people?! The psychos who do that, that's who - or b) find some other way to do it (ie, bombs - I hear they are not hard to make especially when one of the main components can be a kitchen appliance, or we have knives, baseball bats, cars, poisons - I could name stuff all day. We take all guns away, but did we actually address WHY people want to do this? I'm not a fan of guns, but I'm also not a fan of criminals running around with them while your average law abider is a sitting duck. It's quite a quandary.

I don't like violence and for the most part, these dogs aren't violent. I don't care what you think you know about it, but it's a fact. Get your head out of the sand. PEOPLE have done this to them and it's too bad that you can't see that. Dog maulings and fatalities are the least of our problems in this world. You have so much of a better chance of your fellow humans hurting you than any of these dogs but I guarantee you that 99% of the ones that do attack, there is a person behind that animal who is 100% responsible for it and those people should be punished, not millions of dogs who did nothing to deserve the kind of fate you want to give them. But you go ahead and stay ignorant without actually getting involved in the subject - doing as I said in another post, being around them, seeing how really great they can be when having been blessed with responsible owners. Even most pit bulls that are abused bounce back with the right people, I've seen it happen many many times. Unfortunately not all these dogs can bounce back. It's just like people - some deal with a bad situation differently than most of us, everyone is different in their make up, some unfortunately succumb to the bad that's happened to them and that includes dogs of any breed.

Our animal cruelty laws are not strict enough, especially considering in the state I live in, a judge is more likely to give a fine or community service than actual jail time for animal abusers. How about replacing the pot smokers (who commited no violent crime) with animal abusers so we have space in jails for the bastards?

I know you'll think what you like regardless of what anyone says. No experience would be enough because you know it all, right? Why don't you talk to some pit bull rescuers? The owner of Villalobos rescue has rescued hundreds of pit bulls, funny though - she still has all her limbs, no scars or injuries and her life. I wonder how that happened? I guess she must be really gifted to keep such vicious dogs from attacking her.

[DirkGently]

231. No, Boud. It's vicious dog culture that is cruel.

You've almost got it. You have seemingly locked in on the idea that there are people who cherish the idea of raising and keeping a savage dog. That's good -- that's the problem. What you are missing entirely is the fact that a lot of said people choose dogs they -- as often inaccurately as not -- call pit bulls.

Plenty of other breeds have the same type of "breeding" you seem to think condemns pit bulls. Bull dogs, for starters. Every type of sheep dog. Every dog commonly used in police work.

What you're missing is that there is nothing magic about the term "pit bull" other than the fact it appeals to some of the worst dog owners. You also incorrectly assume that every pit bull in the world comes from a line of dog fighting.

You apparently don't understand that plenty of normal, responsible dog fanciers have pit bulls that -- surprise! behave just any other well-bred, well socialized dog.

You know these things, right?

You also understand that there are plenty of other powerful breeds that bad owners can and do use in exactly the same way, and who would be utterly undeterred in their dog-fighting / junkyard guarding, irresponsible animal keeping habits if large terriers -- which is all 'pit bulls' are -- were somehow made unavailable to them.

What you mean to target is the practice of abusing and socializing large dogs to be vicious. That's a human problem, not a dog problem, and thus you can only address it through the humans.

[TheProgressive]

9. Your post is as disgusting as the abuse of these dogs..

Graphic warning or not - this thread exceeds normal dignity.

Your message of dog abuse could have been delivered differently.

This thread should be removed for such gross graphics.

[truebluegreen]

12. Your concern is noted.

[baldguy]

13. How many posts have we seen spammed across DU showing human victims of dog attacks?

All supposedly attributed to Pit Bulls - but with absolutely no proof? I've never seen you complain about them.

[TheProgressive]

18. As I said, your post is disgusting as is the dog abuse...

One can only speculate as to why you post such disgusting graphic pictures...

[Luminous Animal]

22. To illustrate the lengths that disgusting human beings will do to turn an

animal into a killing machine. And certainly, you were given fair warning. If you don't want to see graphic content, don't click on the link.

[flvegan]

30. Uncomfortable for some reason?

[TheProgressive]

34. This post is more for the *pleasure* of the author

and others equally sick...

The abuse was DU reported and you won....so have fun with your sickness.

[flvegan]

35. So...no answer, then.

Duly noted.

[Quixote1818]

104. And what if you are wrong and the OP cares deeply for the animals?

Did that ever cross your mind before you called him / her sick? You owe the OP an apology. If you don't know for a fact they mean well then don't attack people on such a personal level.

[sibelian]

164. Probably not.

I don't think posting pictures of abused animals is particularly pleasurable.

[OwnedByCats]

175. Pleasure???

You think we find it a pleasure that this shit happens? Are you kidding me? That is one disgusting comment!

Yeah, I get pleasure from being pissed off and depressed over this shit happening to animals. What complete bollocks.

I hope you go to the threads that show mutilated people, alert on the post, and tell them just how sick they are posting that stuff. Being consistent is not some people's priority around here.

[Quixote1818]

105. No only YOU would speculate. nt

[OwnedByCats]

162. Well why don't you tell the anti-pit bull

crowd to stop posting pictures of people who were attacked by dogs? I mean all baldguy is doing is showing the other side, since a handful of people here can't be bothered to do their own research.

Besides, he did put up a huge warning about graphic pictures, you know, so you could skip them if you couldn't stomach it.

[dballance]

46. You were warned about graphic pictures. You didn't have to click on the thread. /nt

[kysrsoze]

49. ...according to you. I think people need to see just how vicious animal abusers are

I see nothing wrong with this post. If you're sickened, move on, or do something about it.

And before you reply about doing something, I am a consistent donor to a local shelter and all our dogs come from the pound.

[nomorenomore08]

70. Can't handle the truth? "Such gross graphics"?

This is what people do to their "pet" dogs on a daily basis, and they largely get away with it. A species bred specifically to love, and submit to, human beings deserves nothing but benevolence from us. Anything less would be unfair to them.

[Tien1985]

158. Then hit alert.

I certainly wouldn't vote hide. This is news. Go bury your head in the sand if you don't want to view reality.

[justiceischeap]

160. Sometimes reality is disgusting.

Why shouldn't people see how animals can be treated in the hands of the wrong people? If you don't like what you see, instead of complaining about how disgusting this post is, do something about it.

[Chan790]

169. Um...no.

He warned you. If the thread bothers you, there is a nice little box you can check and viola! The thread is hidden from you. Presto-chango! It's like magnets...does anybody really understand how it works? It's magic!

Some of us give our time, efforts and...because animal-abusers and dog-fighters are criminals and often extremely violent themselves¹...sometimes our lives to save and protect these dogs and make sure the humans responsible are sent away from the rest of human civilization. The least you can be asked to do is witness and be aware...asked, not compelled. In there is the kernel of truth: nobody made you look at this thread. You did so...and now horrified, you're misdirecting your anger at the people making you aware of this horror rather than the people committing these horrors. If these pictures bother you, don't complain...call your local ASPCA or HSUS office to ask how you can help.

¹: Which is not even getting into the large overlap between dog-fighting and the drug trade; dog fighting and gang activity; dog-fighting and human-smuggling including human-slavery and forced prostitution; dog-fighting and violent crime.

[uppityperson]

11. I forgot to say, I like the quotes you put in italics between the stories of the dogs.

Reading them elsewhere on DU is infuriating

[Luminous Animal]

19. Yep. The quotes are greatly appreciated.

[REP]

15. Sadness and rage

I could barely look at the photos; I know I can't read their stories. I hope they all recovered.

I can't post what I wish for their abusers.

[Luminous Animal]

16. I have 2 friends that do pit bull rescue and are highly successful

in rehabilitating them. Beautiful bullies.

Thank you for this post.

[one_voice]

17. WTF is wrong with people...

Some days I really hate people.

I'm glad my daughter rescued her pits, they're great dogs. I was with her when she rescued her boy, Vegas. I spent his first day of 'freedom' with him too. So he's got a special place in my heart. Denim is her girl.

[baldguy]

26. Good dogs!

I hope they got treats after sitting so nice for the pic.

[Dragonfli]

33. Those are the eyes of lovers not haters. Dogs know when they are rescued and love you for it.

Sometimes they even love and forgive the humans that habitually harm them, they are that good of heart.

[Bonobo]

20. Illogical argument.

Are you suggesting the fact that they are abused at the hands of humans somehow mitigates the fact that they are responsible for representing an outsized danger to humans?

Even if there is a lot of abuse of pit bulls (as is there is of many animals), it has nothing to do with reducing the threat faced by them.

[baldguy]

25. The abuse creates the danger.

Which can happen with any dog.

[flvegan]

28. Factually incorrect.

"Responsible for representing an outsized danger to humans."

Back it up, or shut up.

[Bonobo]

45. Compare pit-bull (ish) dog attacks vs. irish setter attacks.

Do you contend that there is an equal number of attacks by both varieties of dogs proportionally?

[flvegan]

60. Let me know when you can front that data.

Until then...

(love the &quot ish)" btw. way to concede beforehand. nice.)

[Bonobo]

62. I'm just recognizing that you are correct

about the fuzziness with the definition of pit bulls.

But I think it is clear that you are avoiding the question I am asking?

Do you admit that some breeds of dogs are more dangerous by nature than others in general?

BTW, I won't engage in snark with you because I like and respect you.

[baldguy]

63. The are some dogs which are more dangerous: unspayed/unneutered dogs who are't trained & socialized.

The breed doesn't matter.

[flvegan]

65. And I like and respect you, Bonobo. We've come a long way.

But that's not what you asked.

Now, as for your question, you'll have to define "by nature" before I'd tackle that one. A 45 pound "pit bull" isn't as dangerous as a 25 pound cocker spaniel, depending on the circumstance.

Have a 6 year old pull on each dog's ears and see what happens.

[Bonobo]

67. Retrievers have an instinct which makes them

more likely to want to dash out, pick up something and bring it to their master.

Australian sheepdogs have a weird built-in desire to want to herd things.

Terriers tend to hunt and be very tense in anticipate of an event. They are high-strung unlike labs for example.

These are all examples of genetically bred characteristics., That is what I mean by NATURE.

It is my opinion that some dogs are more likely to be aggressive and my personal experience bears this out as my own parents bred Airedale terriers who could be either very sweet in some individual cases or rather fucking crazy in others.

But labs? It would take a lot of abuse to make a lab as dangerous as, for example, the potential to make a terrier dangerous.

[Scootaloo]

76. A few preleminaries.

1) Definition. "Irish Setter" is applied only to a specific breed, and within that generally only recognized (i.e., registered / papered) members of that breed. A dog that conforms exactly to the breed standard for "Irish Setter" but has no recognized lineage is a mongrel that looks exactly like an Irish setter. "Pit bull" on the other hand is very murky. I knew a guy who thought an afghan hound down the block was a pit bull because it attacked the fence every time someone walked by; it was a mean dog and thus it was a "pit bull." That's an extreme example, but the truth is there is no "standard" for pit bull.

2) Population. There's just more "bull-ish" dogs than Irish setters... Not the least because in addition to unrecognized breeds, "typed" mongrels, and mistaken identities, there are also about seven distinct, recognized breeds that have the common physical characteristics of a pit bull, but there's still just one Irish setter.

You seem to recognize both of these features, I'll grant. Unfortunately they contradict; Since "pit bull" is such a vaporous term, figuring their true population is next to impossible, while the paper trails make it pretty easy to calculate the number of Irish setters.

However, there's a third factor that you missed, which also needs to be considered; Owner and environment.

A reputable breeder evaluates you and your environment before selling you a dog. If they feel you would not provide a suitable home and appropriate care for the puppy, they'll just refuse to sell the animal to you. of course this isn't 100%; as one of the "pretty puppy" breeds, Irish setters have a pretty large puppy mill market going, I'm sure. Even then though, the people purchasing one of those animals is probably looking for a cute fluffy puppy for their child to play with or something. The animal might not get the best possible home, but they're probably well-intentioned towards the animal and will love it. It's unlikely some tough guy looking for a status symbol "butch" animal to show what a hardass he is, is going to come looking for some skinny puppy that fell out of a direct-to-video Disney film, though

Now come over to pit bulls. While there are recognized breeds fitting the "type," and thus reputable breeders (Staffordshire terriers come to mind) a lot of these animals come from backyard breeders who either just pass out puppies to all comers, or sell them to a particular, shall we say, market. Maybe these breeders are nice people whose bitch just got pregnant, maybe they're total assholes running a mill in their basement, whatever, what matters is where the puppy ends up. Since of course "everyone knows" pit bulls are monsters, evil land-sharks out to eat grandma, the odds of some nice family stopping by to pick up a bunch-o-cuddles bully puppy are... rather slim. On the other hand, remember that fellow wanting a muscular, "manly" dog to show what a hardass he is? Yeah, he's going to be knocking on the door.

So between the two, which animal do you think might end up being mistreated, and thus become a mean dog? "Billie," the irish setter puppy who runs around the backyard with a seven year old who chucks tennis balls for him, or "Dawg," the bully puppy who ends up chained to the bed of a pickup and is punched in the face now and again to keep him from "trusting"? Now, trade places, who's the mean dog, who's the well-adjusted dog?

It actually becomes self-fulfilling. The more peopel insist this dog is a mean, savage "fighting animal" who can't ever be trusted... the more interest people who want a mean, savage 'fighting animal' are goign to have in acquiring such an animal... and molding it to conform to that image.

[Bonobo]

80. You laid that out beautifully.

Thank you. I will give it a lot of consideration.

If there is one thing that I feel you missed in your analysis, it was that you gave zero recognition of genetically-guided behavioral characteristics that I think are beyond serious dispute. Of course there is great variety from individual to individual, there is a great deal of variation between breeds based on these intentionally "bred-for" characteristics.

[Scootaloo]

96. "Instinct" is something of a red herring

It's like gravity; People hear a lot about it and imagine it to be this overwhelming force... but in reality, though present, it's pretty weak and easily overcome.

Pit bulls, along with other terrier breeds - as well as most hounds (sight and scent) and husky-types - have a tendency towards animal aggression. Their breed backgrounds are to hunt down and kill other animals, whether in actual hunting or in a fighting ring. However, as just about anyone who owns any of these animals can attest to, training, handling, and acclimation can do away with that very easily. Instinct, then, again comes down to the responsibilities of the animal's owner.

That said, they're still animals. A pissed, startled, or injured animal is likely to lash out, regardless of breed, regardless of training. I've seen a big dumb cuddly St. Bernard turn into Cujo for a moment when some idiot fired a gun nearby and scared the animal. Well-trained does not mean "we can leave our toddler alone with him for ten minutes," regardless of breed (but especially for poodles; good lord, people think those dogs are wussies?!)

[caseymoz]

108. They wouldn't have made breeds

if they didn't breed for certain characteristics, including behavioral ones. If you don't call it instinct, call it an emotional repertoire.

[Scootaloo]

110. Direct hit narrowly averted!

[caseymoz]

135. Hilarious.

Um, no, I mean lame.

You say these inclinations are easily overcome (paraphrased). If an animal has five atavistic minutes in its life span-- which is a very, very low percentage of its lifetime-- where bred behavioral characteristics hold sway, a person, or other dog, could die. It would be fair to say in that case the training and environment had overcome the dog's bred characteristics, and it was just bad luck.

Or the triggering event might never happen, and you might judge the behavior as having been extinguished, when actually, the potential was still there. What you're talking about when a dog has been bred for a pit bull's behavioral characteristics is luck.

If you're going to bond with a dog, why with a dog that has that history in its breed at all?

[Scootaloo]

141. Yup, they are easily overcome

That's the point of training. Not hard to understand, is it? It's your responsibility as an animal's owner to mitigate its bad behavior. 100% of the responsibility for this is on the human in the relationship.

And you ask, "why a dog with that in its breed history at all," well, you'll find that pretty much every type of dog has that in its history.

This guy:

Bred and developed to tear wolves, foxes, and other dogs into pieces. That was its "job," to protect herd animals from predators.

How about this fellow?

Bred and developed to chase this into its own burrow and kill it;


Okay, okay, dachhunds might not be the most intimidating of dogs (though the ones I've met have been little bastards)
How about this guy?

DAW wookit him, such a cute widdle smirk... Bred and developed to chase down, harry, chew up, and subdue lions.

How about Scruff McGruff here?

This buddy is a human-hunter, bred to trail, harrass, and pin down human quarry; forget old british detective dramas, thus guy's first job was chewing the feet off escaped slaves.

And this guy!

...Pit fighter with a breed history that makes pit bulls look like yorkies


Who were, by the way, also famed pit dogs, pitted against rats and other small dogs.

And of course we have this big huggable galoot;

...Who was a multi-purpose kill-shit-dead dog. It was a warhound, boar-hunter, a stag courser, and most famously, owes its name to basically chewing every wolf on Ireland to death.

yeah, who could ever love such savage monsters.

[DRoseDARs]

142. Gee, looks like someone down-thread is going to be busy for a while exterminating all those breeds.

eom

[Scootaloo]

143. And this isn't even the tip of the iceberg!

I guess we'll just have to purge the whole of C. lupus familiarus until nothing is left except for Labrador retrievers.

[DRoseDARs]

144. Nope, them too. Looks like they've a bit of Mastiff in them. nt

[Scootaloo]

145. Well... I guess there's always the aibo?

[Jamastiene]

152. No, they might not be safe for children under two years of age.

They may have some plastic parts that come off and could choke a two year old who is unsupervised. They will want them banned too.

After dogs, they'll go after cats, birds, and every other animal that exists. People who think like that make me sick. There must be a term to apply to that type of prejudice. Breed prejudice is as ignorant as all the other prejudices/isms.

[dorkzilla]

150. Great post, thank you! nt

[cui bono]

146. Pits were initially, during times of "legitimate" dog fighting (whatever that is)

bred to be dog aggressive, and any of them that showed human aggression was put down to keep that out of the breed. After a fighter was retired it was common for them to become the family pet. After dog fighting became illegal they have been bred to have no aggression by legitimate breeders. In the 50s they were thought to be the best family dog and were quite popular. Petey from The Little Rascals was a pit as was the Buster Brown mascot and the Marine's mascot and one of the President Roosevelts had one, can't remember if it was Teddy or FDR.

Unfortunately, backyard breeders who want macho dogs or fighters breed for aggression and don't care if it is directed towards dogs or humans, so it is possible that some of them have that in them and unfortunately they are strong and tenacious. But in reality the breed is a wonderful breed and having had two of them I know that that is the only breed I will ever have again. They are so much more in tune with humans than other breeds imo. My babies were the best. The female was dog aggressive when she got older after having been very submissive to all other dogs as a youngster, so I'm certain it was fear based. I had to put a muzzle on her whenever I took her out, but she got along fine with her brother and all people. But there are plenty of dogs from other breeds who are like that. I've seen them on The Dog Whisperer.

With all dogs, they are pack animals and need to know who the leader is and you have to make sure they know it is you and any other person in the household. And really, pits are the most obedient and easily trained breed I've encountered.

[haele]

183. I was bit hard by a neighbor's Irish Setter when I was 13. 7 stitches and a lot of bruising.

And bit by another neighbor's elderly Cocker Spaniel at the age of 5. No real injury there, it was just a nip that caused a bit of bruising and a small scratch. I admit blame for the Spaniel (do NOT pull on ears like you do with Grandpa's mutt), but the Setter was an intact male and was pretty much unable to be handled because he had just come back from being bred.
The neighbors had him out with them in a side yard, and he jumped the low fence to go after us kids playing on the street.

The other dangerous dog case I'm intimately familiar with is that of the St. Bernard male that was the father of the dog we had when I was growing up. He got in with a pack of dogs that were allowed to roam free in their neighborhood - a Dalmatian and a yellow lab - and tore up two cats, injured a miniature poodle that was being walked down the road, and bit a toddler before he and the others were relegated to indoors unless controlled.
He had been a very friendly dog, but once he got in with that pack, he was deadly. They ended up putting him down because it became too difficult to control him after he went on his rampage with his buddies.

Owned my own stupid, sweet natured dog (Shari of blessed memory) for 15 years. She was a Australian Shepard/Heeler/Golden/Boxer mix of about 45/50 lbs. She had a vision problem, and would nip at people in suprise if they came up behind her - we always had to watch her around children and smaller animals. My husband and I were bit occasionally when we were trying to control her if she was hyper-focused on something; sometimes just when putting her leash on her. She'd always be contrite afterwards...she was just startled.
If she was a "Pitt Bull", she would be considered a dangerous dog and people would be howling to put her down. But because she was a Shepard/Heeler/Golden mix and didn't have that nasty punched in looking face, everyone thought she was just a sweet, stupid dog that barked alot and nipped occasionally.

I've never been harassed or bit by a "pit bull", even though I currently live in the 'hood where pretty much everyone who has a dog has either a Staffordshire Terrier ("pit-bull looking&quot mix, a Rottwiler mix, or a shit-load of Chihuahuas and small yap dog mixes. The Chihuahuas are usually the ones who are let run free and attack people, but they don't do much damage.

In my experience, the dangerous dog category is:

Any excited intact males
Dogs in packs
Any un-confident dog attempting to impose dominance
Dogs trained to guard/attack who are approached too closely
Any "Momma" dogs who might feel their babies are being threatened
Any Elderly or injured/disabled dogs who is surprised or threatened.

I have never found a "breed" that was naturally aggressive, just aggressive dogs (either because they were alphas or trained to be aggressive) that are capable of doing significant damage because they're bigger or in packs.

A human being can tear off an entire ear, part of a nose or some loose underarm skin just with their teeth in a fight (and I have seen a drunk bite the ear off another in person when I was in shore patrol!).
Then realize what a creature with three times the mouth size of a human being and born with a full set of canine teeth made for killing or tearing into prey can do.
That's one of the primary reasons why dogs are licensed - someone who owns a potentially dangerous animal that can run loose or become uncontrollable should be required to take responsibility should that animal cause damage.

And for those who want to ban "dangerous dogs" by breed, the reality is that you pretty much need to ban every dog over 15 lbs.

Haele

[cui bono]

37. It does when you take into account the type of people who abuse them and fight them

are backyard breeding them to be aggressive. They are macho a-holes who want macho dogs, so they tend to want pits. And when neglected, abused dogs that have had zero socialization get out, well, that's not the breed in and of itself that is causing a dog to behave badly.

Pit bulls were thought of as the best family dog in the 50s. They are exceptional companions. They are the most loyal, devoted, loving and affectionate dogs I've ever had or known. They bond and connect like no other breed. Seriously, mine really understood what I was saying. I didn't have to go through weeks of training, they knew what I wanted them to do after telling them once or twice. They are goofy and silly and will make you laugh more than once a day. They're known to want to be part of the family, to need to be part of the family. If you haven't read any books about the breed it's a good idea to do so.

Mine are no longer around, may they RIP, but I hang out with my neighbor's daily and he is the sweetest thing. Avoids confrontation at all costs. His goal in life is to be a good boy, and that he is.

They don't deserve their reputation or their abuse.

And btw... can you define "outsized danger"? I really don't know what you mean by that.

These babies were no danger to me:

[Luminous Animal]

47. A-a-aw!

[Luminous Animal]

38. Any dog that is raised to fiight for their life is going to keep on fighting for the

rest of their lives.

Human beings (even with their big brains) would do the same.

[Bonobo]

48. I don't disagree

that part of the reasons for the number of attacks by pit bulls is their treatment.

But part of it is their nature.

If you wish to argue, then tell me if an irish setter or golden retriever has the same degree of aggressiveness (in general).

If you say they are the same, I say you don't know about dogs or are being willfully disingenuous.

[Luminous Animal]

121. I know dogs. I know how hunting dogs are trained and I know how

house dogs are catered to and accommodated.

And how you treat the dog, no matter their breed, is how they will live up to their expectations.

During hunting season, in the town I grew up, if one or several dogs stray wandered into your property, you didn't approach them, you cocked your gun. The dogs that stood down (trained to respect the sound) would be led by an assertive voice to the barn or shed. The dogs that would crouch and wag their tail would be led to the house. The breed could be the same, the raising was the determinate.

[nomorenomore08]

53. First of all, people have to clarify what exactly they mean by "pit bull."

The American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT) is only one of several breeds commonly identified in the media as "pit bulls." Most dogs of this breed are only about 35-50 lbs. - when you hear about some 100-lb. monster then that's either a cross or a different breed entirely, perhaps a Presa Canario for instance. A pair of Presas were responsible for one of the most infamous dog maulings of recent years, which happened in the S.F. Bay Area back in 2001.

Banning the APBT - which is what breed-specific legislation aims to do, generally - is an ineffective safety measure.

[Bonobo]

54. I never called for any ban on any dog.

And yes, I recognize the lack of clarity people are using with the term pit-bull.

Having said that, I think that some dogs really pose a danger to people and current laws, at least, need to be enforced more vigorously to protect people.

A dead toddler or even an emotionally scarred one is an awfully high price to pay just because we wuv our wittle doggy.

[nomorenomore08]

66. I agree that certain dog owners, and their pets, should be monitored more closely.

And that some dog breeds - though I'm not sure if the APBT is necessarily one of them - aren't suitable for households with small children. And furthermore, that laws against animal cruelty - especially dog-fighting and related "training" activities - should be more vigorously enforced than they are.

[Dragonfli]

27. From all evidence of comparative behavior -

If any particular group of beings is most "worthless", "different", "dangerous", "vicious", "murderous" - It is Homo Sapiens; Canines are nearly universally "altruistic", "kind", "gentle", "loyal", "brave" and "loving" in comparison - I trust them far more than humans.

[baldguy]

29. Dogs deserve better from humans.

[tblue]

115. I believe in Dog.

I swear Dog is more Christlike than any human.

[SouthernLiberal]

31. I hate to see any animal abused

And I am old enough to remember other breeds that were given this sort of reputation. I can even remember when Doberman Pinschers were commonly bred to be much bigger than they are today. At that time, they were the 'tough' guy's favorite dog. It was 'known' that dobies were inherently fiercer than other dogs, that they were 'one man dogs' and would happily attack anyone else. Look at today's dobies and tell me you believe that about them.

Later, it was German Shepherds, then Rotweilers, and now, Pit Bulls.

What we all too often forget is that dogs are what we have made them. Even if every accusation about Pit Bulls were true (and they are not), it would only be because human beings wanted them that way.

[flvegan]

32. This pit bull rescuer thanks you for this.

On every level.

I see what you did there.

[whatchamacallit]

36. What fucking garbage!

Last edited Fri May 17, 2013, 10:01 PM - Edit history (1)

Your shameless stunt is akin to a pro-lifer showing a trash can of fetuses. None of the "sick fucks" on this board condone this or any abuse of animals. The OP doesn't even make sense as a defense because the pits involved in the all-to-often attacks are of sound body, unlike these poor tortured wretches. Nice try, Bald Guy.

[baldguy]

39. How many posts have we seen spammed across DU showing pics of human victims of dog attacks?

All supposedly attributed to Pit Bulls - all with absolutely no proof? I've never seen you complain about them.

[The Straight Story]

52. They have less pit bull attacks in France - because they have laws against those dogs

Just like they have strict gun laws.

PARIS, Jan. 6 – As everyone knows, the French love dogs and don't mind what they do on the sidewalk. Starting today, pit bulls are an exception to the dog-loving part.

A new law requires all pit bulls, said to be the most dangerous of dogs, to be sterilized, muzzled, registered at city halls and kept out of public places. The District of Columbia and other U.S. jurisdictions are considering or already impose various controls on pit bulls, while a number of European countries have enacted their own limitations.

In the Netherlands, for instance, breeding of pit bulls has been forbidden since 1993, and they are required to be sterilized. The country expects the breed to be extinct there in two more years. And an "aggression test" is required for five other breeds; dogs that fail must be muzzled, sterilized and kept on a short leash.

In France, pit bulls are responsible for relatively few biting deaths. But, as in some other countries, they tend to be mostly owned by alienated young people in low-income neighborhoods who raise them for fighting – a bad sign for potential enforcement of the new law.

"In ghettos where the police don't go in already, I don't see why they will go in because of this law," said Paris city councillor Jean-Michel Michaux, a veterinarian. In fact, France is a country with many laws no one obeys, and this threatens to become another one. The police have been given no special training or increased resources to enforce it. According to Gerard Boyer, head of the police union, nine bureaucrats will administer the law for all of Paris.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/pmextra/jan00/06/pitbulls.htm

France, since January 2000, has required that all pit bulls and dogs of several other high-risk breeds be neutered, with the intention of eliminating them entirely by 2010.
http://www.animalpeoplenews.org/dogFight1100.htm

Getting a permit/licence

It is obligatory to register the dog at the Town Hall (Mairie) and receive a licence (Permis de détention). Any dangerous dog owner without a permit may be fined and imprisoned. A form must be completed and submitted to the town hall along with the following documents:

A behavioral assessment of the dog, performed by a veterinarian
A certificate of competency of the owner, issued by a certified trainer following a training course (the mairie can provide the contact details of certified dog trainers in a region)
Proof of identification of the dog,
Proof of valid anti-rabies inoculation
Proof of third party public liability insurance for the owner or handler of the dog
Proof of sterilisation (in the case of a category 1 dog)

If the dog is not yet eight months old, a provisional permit is issued and the dog must undergo a full behavioral evaluation at one year of age before the full licence can be drawn up.

The registration forms can be downloaded online:

Category 1 dog: Relevant documents for registration: Click here
Category 2 dog: Relevant documents for registration: Click here

Dog owners' responsibilities

Any dog, regardless of its category, which bites or injures a person must be reported to the town hall by the owner. The dog then undergoes a behavioural evaluation by a vet who will advise what the next steps will be.

Category 1 dog:

Acquisition, sale, purchase and importing these dogs is banned
Sterilisation of male and female dogs is compulsory (must have a veterinary certificate to prove this)
Access to public transport, public places and common areas in apartment buildings is prohibited
The dog may be taken to wide open places but must be kept on a lead and muzzled

Category 2 dog:

It must be leashed and muzzled in public places and on public transport

http://riviera.angloinfo.com/information/family/pets/restrictions-on-animals/

Dogs are like guns. Blame the item people own, not people.

[Luminous Animal]

41. Consistent abuse of the animals contribute to their disposition.

Many of those animals grow up to keep fighting and fighting and fighting so they won't die. The life force is strong, even in "dumb" animals.

[tblue]

122. I'm just glad his name is 'baldguy'

Last edited Fri May 17, 2013, 03:30 AM - Edit history (1)

haha!

Eta: because I thought you were calling him a name at first.

A few weeks ago I saw a pit bull run across a busy street and attack another pit bull. One was vicious and aggressive and the other was just a doggie walking on a leash with his owner. There are plenty of lovely sweet pit bulls and there are some that are mean. I don't fault the breed. I am a Dog Lover with a capital D. If people don't know enough about pit bulls, they need to be informed, not grouped together with people who torture animals.

[nomorenomore08]

40. Some of the sweetest dogs I've ever known were pure-bred (or close to it) APBT's.

There's only one (housemate's dog) I've ever had a problem with, and that was after she'd given birth and was hyper-defensive. Had a few scary moments but no injuries.

All dogs belong to a species that has evolved to - actually been bred to - love and depend on humans. This is no less true of APBT's or any other dog labeled a "pit bull" - which has actually happened with a number of different breeds, as well as crosses.

BTW American Pit Bull Terriers - that's the proper breed name, not for all dogs labeled "pit bulls" but for one particular breed - are not particularly large dogs, usually around 35-50 lbs.

[Starry Messenger]

44. I've written here before of being bitten by a Golden.

The other dog story that sticks out in my mind is working at a book store at age 19 with a guy who had a pit puppy and wouldn't let us touch it because he didn't want it to get trusting of humans. He would bring it to work in a large paper bag and threaten us if we touched the bag. Of course, the minute he turned his back, we were into the bag. It was as sweet as a little stuffed animal and loved people.

I think of that dog a lot when I read these posts here.

[DRoseDARs]

50. Man doesn't want puppy growing trusting of Humans, brings puppy with him out in public.

Someone needed a punch in the dick.

[Starry Messenger]

55. It was 23 years ago and it still distresses me.

He was a douchebag. I'll never forget the sweet little face of the dog.

[DRoseDARs]

59. And you would have gone to jail if you'd tried to rescue the little guy. That's the tragedy.

Punished for mercy rescue. No way to know for certain what happened to the pup, but depressingly easy to guess. Even the best case scenario - junkyard security dog - is awful to think about.

[flvegan]

72. Unlikely.

Some animal thieves get away with it for a good long time. Open rescue rules, too many stand behind you.

True punishment is not doing anything, and living with it.

Blessed are the liberators.

[FedUpWithIt All]

51. The majority of those images are of dogs that were used as bait for dog fight training

The images inspired a mixed reaction from me. I detest the people who would put animals in such a position but i am also fully aware that the devastating damage done to many of these dogs was actually inflicted by other dogs, albeit under human pressure. These animals are both intelligent and extremely powerful. Your pictures show what can happen to a being on the receiving end of another dog's strength and bad ownership.


It really does little good to sit and discuss bad owners when it is clear that the pairing of bad owners with bully breeds is extremely common.

So what is the solution? Do nothing and continue to allow people, who should not have these types of dogs, to either abuse or poorly train them until more tragedy happens? Or do we take the other extreme and ban the breeds all together?


I tend to think real positive change, on this as any controversial issue, lies somewhere in the middle. What if an education class of some sort were required for large dog licensing? Or obedience training?

[baldguy]

58. I specifically selected cases where the abuse was *NOT* inflicted by other animals.

Dogs don't set fire to their victims. Or spill acid on them. Or shoot them, Or stab them. Or starve them. All of this damage was done directly & deliberately by humans. Click on the links & read the stories.

[newmember]

79. That's not just pitbulls it happens too , it happens to all breeds

[baldguy]

83. It happens more often to Pit Bulls, because of people like you

Who sensationalize dog attacks & blame them all on Pit Bulls - with no proof. You're one of the worst offenders on DU.

[newmember]

85. Gotcha , you get angry when you see a true story of a pit bull attacking and killing a person

At least we got that straight.

[baldguy]

88. "Gotcha"? You advocate genocide just to score some brownie points with DU's anti-dog crew?

How sick, shallow & immature can a person be?

[newmember]

90. The only one showing immaturity in this thread so far is you

[baldguy]

95. Paul Reubans did it better than you. He could dance in the Big Shoes, too.

And you're still a liar.

[newmember]

98. I don't get emotional on the internet

thanks for the laugh though

Now go outside and cool off.

[baldguy]

101. Every post you make on this subject is emotional.

That's another lie, there. You're really racking up a string of 'em. Aren't you? Care to try another?

[Kalidurga]

218. You aren't fooling anyone...

except maybe yourself.

[FedUpWithIt All]

234. Several of your own links clarify that the injuries are from use as bait dogs.

Oogy, Gypsy and the pup with the broken legs are some well known examples.

[Rex]

56. http://www.aspca.org

Third Reason

The last group of people who hurt animals are the worst. These are people who intentionally hurt animals because they enjoy hurting things, or because it makes them feel powerful. Many of these people would hurt other people if they could get away with it. They just choose to hurt animals because animals are more helpless than people.

Why do these people hurt animals? There are different reasons. A lot of these people want to have control over others. They will hurt an animal because they think this means they control the animal. Or they may hurt the animal to control another person. For example, a husband might hurt the family's pet to show his wife what he could do to her if she doesn't obey his commands. Someone else might make his dog kill other dogs because he thinks that makes him powerful.

Others simply enjoy pain and violence. Those who enjoy violence might also destroy inanimate objects as well as animals and people.

[Scootaloo]

57. "You don't ever see any gang bangers hanging out with golden retrievers."

Aaaaaaaand there it is. Out in the air, an unironic dog whistle.

[baldguy]

61. But if you call them on it, they get all offended.

[Apophis]

68. People who do this to the poor dogs should get the same punishment

as they gave the poor dogs.

[galileoreloaded]

69. not only should they be banned

but for safety, sadly, destroyed on discovery.

its a cruel world.

[baldguy]

71. People like you are part of the problem depicted in the OP.

It's the logical end result when you make a living creature disposable.

[galileoreloaded]

74. i make hard choices to protect the public, yes

you are the one all gobbed up with emotion.

sorry

[Scootaloo]

78. Well, wait... Wait a second.

You say...

not only should they be banned but for safety, sadly, destroyed on discovery.

Another poster points out that the animals in the OP were set on fire, beaten, shot, poisoned, had acid thrown on htem, and otherwise tortured in attempts to kill them.

To which you say...

i make hard choices to protect the public, yes

Excuse me, I... really don't want to jump to this sort of conclusion, but... are you telling us that you would set fire to a dog that looked like some breed or another, and that it's you "protecting the public"?

I hope I'm wrong, but good lord, that's really what it looks like you're saying!

[baldguy]

97. Yes, that's exactly what they're saying. This is the point of my OP.

Which you get, but some less than honest people refuse to acknowledge.

[baldguy]

81. You're too thick to get it, aren't you? You "choices" would make things worse - and do.

BSLs are an uninformed, emotional response to a very rare problem, and don't protect the public because they target dogs instead of the people who abuse & neglect them.

[galileoreloaded]

82. your pits kill. people. real people. every day.

i get it fine.

[baldguy]

86. That's a flat-out lie. 34 were people killed by all dogs in all of 2012 - out of 89 million dogs.

[uppityperson]

137. Search says 34 last yr not 352.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States
This says 246 in 25 years and 34 last yr.

[flvegan]

73. Why is that?

Be very specific. I look forward to your answer.

[galileoreloaded]

75. because i embrace reality?

novel concept, i know

[BainsBane]

124. You hate dogs too?

[newmember]

77. ..

31 U.S. fatal dog attacks occurred in 2011.3 Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 600 U.S. cities, pit bulls led these attacks accounting for 71% (22). Pit bulls make up less than 5% of the total U.S. dog population.4
Notably in 2011, adult victims of fatal pit bull attacks more than doubled the number of child victims. Of the 22 total pit bull victims, 68% (15) fell between the ages of 32 to 76, and 32% (7) were ages 5 years and younger.
The year 2011 also marks an increase in pet pit bulls killing their owners. Of the 8 total instances this year in which a family dog inflicted fatal injury to its primary caretaker, the dog's owner, 88% (7) involved pet pit bulls.

[baldguy]

84. Actually, the number deaths attributed in 2011 to Pit Bulls is 2. Not 22.

http://www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/tinymce/2011%20Final%20Investigative%20DBRF%20Report.pdf

BREED ATTRIBUTION IN DOG BITE-RELATED FATALITIES IS UNRELIABLE

The news media regularly describe dogs as members of breeds. However, recent developments in canine genetics, along with extensive surveys conducted by university researchers, show that breed identification of dogs of unknown origin based on visual inspection does not correspond with DNA analysis of the same dogs. Equally important, the professionals surveyed disagreed with each other when they attributed a breed or mix of breeds to the same dog.

Unfounded assumptions about the significance of breed and misplaced confidence in visual breed identification have diverted us from a consideration of factors pertinent to the discussion of community safety and dog ownership.

NCRC investigations of the dog bite-related fatalities in 2011 showed that in only eight of the cases could the breed descriptors assigned to the dogs be documented, or otherwise considered reasonable. We have reliably identified six different breeds of dogs in those eight 2011 incidents.

[newmember]

87. Yea okay the ones I posted the dogs were killed and identified

They weren't beagles , they were pit bulls

In each case it was the dominate gene in the dog.

And why don't we go over exactly how the breed developed and has been changed over the years.

[baldguy]

93. Who were they identified by? Were they AKC registered?

Were there any DNA tests done?

You see, the NCRC actually went back and attempted to do those tests and make those identifications. In 91% of the cases where the dog was ID'd as a Pit Bull, it wasn't a Pit Bull.

Sorry, you're lying again. But thanks for playing!

[newmember]

94. Do you know what a pit bull is ?

[baldguy]

99. I definitely do. You obviously don't - or simply don't care. I'm willing to bet it's the latter.

Are you going to tell us another flat-out lie again?

[newmember]

102. You are way too emotional to have a conversation with

I don't know your age but from your actions .

I would say you're very young. Maybe when you grow up we can talk.



have a nice night

edit

maybe tomorrow

[baldguy]

103. This from a person known for hyperbole, is lying left & right, and is channeling Pee Wee Herman.

[newmember]

106. So I guess my post was right about you then

I really was hoping I was wrong .

have a good night kid

[DRoseDARs]

109. Guessing from his username, it may be safe to assume he's old enough to be bald. Just sayin'. nt

[baldguy]

112. If you hadn't noticed - facts have no effect on them.

[newmember]

113. Perhaps , I'm not angry with him

It's very hard to have a conversation with someone so emotionally attached
to the breed . I've had this discussion at the shelter before with people looking to adopt.

Some people don't know enough about the breed and the cross breeding that has happened
over the last 75 or so years. These dogs were at one time very sought after and good family pets.

[uppityperson]

138. Says the person claiming pit bulls kill people every day. It is hard to have a conversation with

Someone so obviously clinging to fallacies and insults.

[baldguy]

111. That I'm emotional about this? Yeah, you caught me. I'm guilty.

Forgive me for being a compassionate human being. Forgive me for caring about the helpless, trusting creatures who seek nothing but love & companionship from the people that torture & kill them.

People that you cheer on, apparently.

As I've indicated before: you're one of the biggest offenders on DU. Your posts do nothing but stir up shit for the PEOPLE THAT CREATED THE QUOTES IN THE ORIGINAL POST! Those are the people you side with. Those are the people who wait anxiously for your next "Pit Bull monster" story. And those are the same type of people who caused the damage in the pics in the OP.

[Scootaloo]

116. Imagine that, getting emotional over animals being tortured, right?

What were you thinking?

[baldguy]

117. And he supposedly works in a shelter.

An all-kill shelter, I'm sure.

[newmember]

119. see what I mean

Yes , I don't get paid I volunteer.

You should try it maybe

[baldguy]

120. You're the one they get to shovel puppies into the gas chamber?

[DRoseDARs]

123. Don't tell us you volunteer at one of PETA's shelters, that would be appalling.

Seriously, they're monsters. Their public image? Total bullocks.

[newmember]

126. No not PETA, it's our local shelter in town , If the dog is unadaptable due to aggression

the state does step in and destroys them. We can't put them up for adoption.
Sad thing is it's usually the owner that brings it in.
Due to having a child bitten or another family member.

[DRoseDARs]

127. For not being PETA, you have at least that respect from me.

There's a lot of antagony going around in this thread, but at least there a bright point can be had.

[baldguy]

131. So it is an all-kill shelter.

You don't really get a broad spectrum of normal canine behavior there, do you? You get the disposable dogs that people want to throw away.

I would hazard to guess that about 90% of the animals you kill are put to death unnecessarily. Those are the kinds of dogs I adopt.

[newmember]

134. Absolutely not , we have adoptions for almost every dog .

I say we but I'm just a volunteer , some dogs you can't by law.
It's a sad reality but it's a reality.


My job isn't a big deal there , I clean the kennels and feed them . If I finish early I take a few out and play with them. I don't make those decisions where the dogs go but I do take them into the play area
and watch them interact with the people looking to adopt.

[BainsBane]

132. Good for you

Stay that way too.

[Lordquinton]

118. Get caught in a falsehood and bounce

Guess we know your age too, for what that matters.

[DesertFlower]

91. i watch "pit bulls and parolees" and it

amazes me how sweet these dogs are even after there chained up and left to die.

dogtown (best friends animal society) took 24 of michael vick's dogs and socialized them. some of them were terrified of people -- others were terrified of dogs.

[ErikJ]

107. Human breeders can be such cruel sick fucks.

I have no objections to banning the breeding of pit bulls OR their cousins the English Bulldog.

Read this letter by a vet about his critique of the the suffering human breeders breed into the English Bull dog! Such cruelty should be not only banned but punished. Likewise the pit bull was bred to fight other pit bulls which is their raison d'être which is even sicker if you ask me.

Dr Gerry Retief, BVSc, MRCVS, in another thread on this forum, wrote a stinging critique of the modern English Bulldog their and breeders thus (editing and emphasis mine):

“Unfortunately nowadays from a veterinary point of view the English Bulldog in South Africa is a walking disaster. If nothing is done about the way these dogs are being bred in South Africa, this loveable breed is doomed.”

“For the past 100 years the bulldog has been bred with shorter and shorter deformed legs, a deformed spine, the scull has become so flattened and deformed that the top dogs can hardly breathe.”

“As a veterinarian I often have to do plastic surgery to treat problems associated with screw tails and excessive skin folds on the nose and face. To breed the "modern" show dog is a challenge. Because the male is so deformed with it's broad chest, short deformed legs and struggle to breathe most breeders nowadays have to resort to artificial insemination to produce a litter.”

“Because of the hugely exaggerated broadness of the heads, pups are seldom born "naturally" so a caesarian section has to be done to get them out. The dams are so clumsy that the pups often have to be removed from them and fed by hand to prevent the dam from smothering her pups.”

“The British Kennel Club has recognised this problem and has promulgated new standards for breeders in the UK to start addressing these problems. Unfortunately, in their wisdom, the Kennel Union of Southern Africa decided to reject this new standard for the next three years. After that, I presume it will be possible to extend this moratorium on the new standard.”

“Having bred these dogs many years ago and given up in disgust because of the problems mentioned above, I feel sad that this ancient breed is being bred to extinction.”

http://www.vet2petnet.co.za/plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?292

[Scootaloo]

130. Watch "Pedigree Dogs Exposed."

It's a BBC documentary that probably led to the BKC recognizing the problem.

Afflictions like this aren't limited to english bulldogs; the head shape of the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, for instance, leads to the brain being crushed by the skull in some dogs, resulting in seizures and phantom pains. Then there's that whole hip dysplasia thing among all sorts of breeds...

The problem is the excessively narrow genepool and the drive to get features even more exaggerated. For instance, the pug.

It used to be more or less like a boxer; smaller body size, but recognizable as a dog.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bQOT7RtkVe4/T-Y3lnm7c2I/AAAAAAAAA24/lWfazDyfBDs/s1600/Pug+antique+pooch.png

Now? They look like potatoes suffering a mental breakdown


Now, I'm not knocking the dogs, or even their owners really. But this whole thing about getting generations upon generations of dog that cleave perfectly to some platonic, unflinching "standard" even at obvious cost to the well-being of the animals, that's just bad. I'm not going to take the PETA route and compare such breeders to the Klan (...really, PETA? Sigh, wasted potential) but it sure seems several steps on the wrong side of the fence, with regards to animal welfare.

[caseymoz]

125. There is no way this suffering is relevant

. . . to any debate about whether pit bulls should banned or not. Or are you arguing that people who get pit bulls hate them so bad because people think they're dangerous? Why the hell would you get a pit bull if you believe the breed should be banned. I hope you can make a connection between people who abuse dogs and the people who don't own pit bulls and wish they were banned. Are you saying that one latter set of people have any sway over the former? Isn't the likely reason for abuse that the former group has a few violent people?

Or is the purpose that I'm supposed to feel so sorry in those pictures, that I'd feel too guilty to want to ban pit bulls? I feel terrible about those abused dogs, and that pity does nothing to make me defend the breed as a whole. Nothing.

And much of your message is lost. I couldn't read 80% of what you wrote because of the pictures. It won't help if a reread it either. Not only that, I'm on the edge of saying I don't want to read anything you write. I think this is the first time I've read anything you've posted. You made a terrible impression and you sucked at making your argument. Call me prejudiced against your cause now. I tend to think anybody who posts a series of pictures like this for the justification you've given is plain wrong. Wrong in the way he thinks, wrong in his temper, just wrong. I'm trying to be fair by telling you this. But I can't be reasonable about anything you say now, and probably won't be for at least a few days or a week.

I'm not the only one who reacts like this either. I'm the only one who told you. Instead of not looking at the pictures that offend me, what if people take the challenge and decide that anybody who posts them for the cause of saving pit bulls is wrong-headed, and can't be trusted on the subject.

Good work, and goodbye.

PS-- even if the blame is the with hardasses and SOB's who tend to buy the label "pit bull," then the breeding is going to select for more aggression. I tend to believe if there's a problem it's going to grow worse, and solution will be even more painful as time goes on.

[DRoseDARs]

128. Thank you for your lengthy post filled with words and sentences. nt

[caseymoz]

136. And you're title, filled with redundancy.

Though, to be fair, isn't every post filled with words and sentences? Or have you noticed?

[DRoseDARs]

139. You chose to type a lengthy post dismissing the entire thread without reading.

Added so much to the discussion from your soap box.

[Quixote1818]

129. I think the point was more in line with "should people be banned?"

because clearly humans are more frequently violent and cruel than Pitt Bulls and the photos make a good case for this. I am sure he / she is not really arguing for people to be banned but getting people to think about how we point to a species and think it's violent but then refuse to look at our own species and what it does. Just my two cents.

[caseymoz]

140. That question is foolish

first, because you must presume the questioner is exempting himself. Second, because what are you going to do if its true? I believe we do ban people who do violent things. It's called prison, and we have about two million people there. It seems we're doing our level best. If we could put everybody in prison, we probably would, but then, who would be the guards?

Therefore, with nothing you could do about human violence anyway, you're left with this logic: because people can be vile, we should allow dogs to be vile, too. What the hell? If anything we have far more power over dogs than we do over other human beings.

You mention pit bulls as a species. We're not talking about a species, here. We're talking a breed that human beings created. The way we created it was we killed the ones on the tree that didn't measure up to our desires. What is so right about slaughtering dogs to create a breed that makes closing out the breed so wrong? Fact is, we can actually do it humanely now.

Just to point out, there was nothing humane about the way we created pit bulls, and the fact that they're around is a legacy of our inhumanity to dogs. You might say they're a reflection of our perversity.

[TXleigh]

147. Side note...

I completely agree with the OP. Any wild animal can be potentially dangerous but that potential for danger exponentially increases when it's in the hands of people who mistreat it and promote dangerous behavior.

Interestingly enough, I would pose the same point to counter those who fight for harsher gun-control laws.

Point to ponder...

[Jamastiene]

153. What always gets me about dogs is how much abuse they will take from someone...

Yet, they will turn around and forgive in a heartbeat. There is no love like a dog's love. It is truly unconditional love. The people who abuse that willingness to forgive and urge to please people should be put in jail. Some people have no compassion whatsoever.

There must be a way to shame the people who buy certain breeds then torture them to try to make them mean. They are so rarely caught and punished under the animal cruelty/abuse laws. I wish there was a way to stop the abuse.

K&R because specific breed hatred is so ignorant. No animal should have to endure the types of abuse shown in the OP.

[Sunlei]

170. good post. I think there is an easier solution instead of ban by breed.

require a basic obedience title like an AKC companion dog title instead of banning specific breeds.

Not hard to train any dog to get an AKC CD. It is the most basic of obedience titles.

The dog walks on leash calmly and comes when called. The dog sit 'stays' for a couple mins. and down stays for 5 mins around large groups of dogs and humans.

Pass this test under official dog obedience show judges 3 times and your dog has his "Companion dog Title"

[smokey nj]

171. This is Stella, one of my dog walking clients.

Her guardians (I prefer that to owners) found her abandoned on the streets of Jersey City, she was chained to a pole. Stella had been abused and was sick and emaciated when she was rescued. When I see Stella, she greets me with thousands of kisses and hugs - she actually puts her paws on my shoulders and hugs me. Stella's mom once told me I was a saint to let Stella kiss me, I told Stella's mom I'm amazed that, after all she'd been through, Stella trusts any human enough to kiss them.

[LostOne4Ever]

154. It is worse than that

Every single year MILLIONS of dogs and cats are killed each year in the US by humans. How many people died in 2011 from dog bites? 31! And whopping 2 were shown conclusively to be by pitbulls!!!! TWO!!!

Not only are humans killing their pets, but they are driving entire species extinct! This is only the tip of the iceberg humans kill other humans in droves!!! Over 15,000 people were killed in the US in 2011.

Obviously we need a species specific ban against humans!


Thank you OP for posting this and helping exposing the lies about this group of dogs (which isn't even the worst when you consider breed and population, and have been show to actually be LESS aggressive than other dogs)!

Keep fighting the good fight!

[newfie11]

156. OMG POOR DOGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

anyone dog this needs to have it done to them, and life in prison. ANYONE that can do this to an animal would do it to a person or helpless child!!!!!!!!!!!!

If anyone did this to my dog I personally would go after them!

[life long demo]

157. I spent this morning reading all these comments

I really started paying attention to pits during the Vick thing. But I read a book on the rehabilitation of Vick's fighting dogs and it was amazing. Some of them are now therapy dogs. This isn't a dog problem, it's a human problem. If the punishment for dog fighting was more severe, that might at least start to stem the availability of backyard breeding of these dogs. If the punishment for animal abuse was more severe, that might at least start to stem the abuse. Punishing the dog for what humans have done isn't going to solve the problem.

[Sunlei]

161. dog fighting, animal abuse are crimes. unfortunate a Misdemeanor in many states

if the people are even charged with a crime at all. Frequently police in many townships, counties are contacted several times about animal abuse and don't even respond.

According to the FBI people who would be violent towards animals are also violent towards humans.

The higher violence rates, higher crime rates are even noted near poor/no regulated animal industries like slaughter houses and factory farms.

The Mayor of Kauffman ,Tx. noted her towns crime rate was cut in half when she finally managed to shut down the horse slaughter plant in her town. It took her 5 years, almost 80 times going to the courts and the plant almost bankrupted her town. Overwhelmed their sewer system. Records exposed in court showed the plant only paid 5.00 in income taxes.

Lately industry has tried to make it a crime to vid. tape animal abuse, in many states. States such as this one..where Animal Angels exposed a dairy where an employee, along with a complicit owner was a house of horrors for the animals. Is is a known fact spent dairy cows and the male calves do go to slaughter..but do they have to be tortured on the way?

This man is a veteran, he was arrested and charged with misdemeanor crime after a lot of foot dragging by authorities and the dairy owner. A slap on the wrist is not enough to keep society safe. By the way in court he complained he was due to take his Police department tests. Do you think this man will ever make a good police officer and family man? reports are he also fired many weapons around the dairy although those events were not documented or admitted to.

warning graphic undercover video!

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="

?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I place this stuff in this thread because showing pictures of abused dogs is not enough. People need to understand that animal abuse, dog fighting, violence against animals is a crime that should always be taken seriously by authorities. It's not just the animals who suffer.

[get the red out]

163. Execution

People who do this to dogs should be executed; I will never back down from believing this, don't care if I'm called names for it either. They should be put to the needle. I don't want people who do such harm as is illustrated in these pictures on this planet, and YES, I want revenge when I see pics like this, I want it badly.

Sometimes I think the human race is simply a wretched abomination.

[xchrom]

165. du rec. nt

[Arcanetrance]

167. I personally wish I could ban humans from existing we are the number one threat to ourselves

and the world around us.

[Egalitarian Thug]

181. I have noticed that virtually all of the anti-pit advocates here are the authoritarians.

I'm sure that's purely coincidental.
& R

[uppityperson]

185. Speaking out about animal abuse gets "people and beloved pets killed"? What?

[baldguy]

190. You're irredeemable. Such sensationalism cases the abuse depicted here. And you are lying.

So far this year there have been 14 fatal dog attacks; 1 from a German Shepherd, 1 from a Pit bull, and the rest have been mixed breeds or unknown. You are lying.

[uppityperson]

192. "Erroneous reportage" happens a lot, where the dog is not a pit bull.

"erroneous reportage" does happen often where a dog is reported as a pit bull and turns out it wasn't. I am not sure how this proves "the breed is irredeemable" since those erroneously reported dogs are not pit bulls.

"I think that this year, pit bulls will break their own record in human slaughter". And you base this wild prediction on...what? Let's look at what dogs have fatally attacked since 2000. OOOoooo, look at 2000, a Pomeranian killed someone.

Pulling out "pitbull"
2000-1
2001-1
2002-0
2003-4
2004-3
2005-10
2006-14
2007-14
2008-12
2009-11
2010-15
2011-14
2012-13

Huh. And you predict 40's by the end of the year. Oh Kay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States#Fatalities_reported_in_2013

2000 5 Mixed breed dog (2) (40%) Rottweiler (1) (20%) Pit bull (1) (20%) Pomeranian (1) (20%)

2001 13 Rottweiler (6) (46%) Mixed breed dog (1) (8%) Perro de Presa Canario (1) (8%) Unknown strays (1) (8%) Pit bull (1) (8%) Chow (1) (8%) Husky (1) (8%)

2002 6 Rottweiler (4) (67%) Mixed breed dog (2) (33%) German Shepherd (1) (17%)

2003 14 Rottweiler (5) (36%) Pit Bull (4) (29%) Mixed breed dog (3) (21%)

2004 15 Mixed breed dog (10) (67%) Pit Bull (3) (20%) Rottweiler (2) (13%)

2005 29 Mixed breed dog (11) (38%) Pit bull (10) (34%) Rottweiler (4) (14%)

2006 30 Pit bull (14) (47%) Rottweiler (9) (30%) Mixed breed dog (4) (13%)

2007 34 Pit bull (14) (41%) Mixed breed dog (7) (21%) Rottweiler (4) (12%)

2008 23 Pit bull (12) (52%) Mixed breed dog (7) (30%) Husky (2) (9%)

2009 30 Pit bull (11) (37%) Mixed breed dog (11) (37%) Rottweiler (2) (7%) Husky (2) (7%) Mastiff (1) (3%) Boxer (1) (3%) Alaskan Malamute (1) (3%) Weimaraner (1) (3%)

2010 35 Pit bull (15) (43%) Mixed breed dog (9) (26%) Rottweiler (3) (9%)

2011 31 Pit bull (14) (45%) Mixed breed dog (5) (16%) Rottweiler (4) (13%)

2012 34 Pit bull (13) (38%) Mixed breed dog (9) (26%) Rottweiler (3) (9%)

[baldguy]

186. You're advocating the abuse of defensless, innocent animals that have comitted no crimes.

Anything can be done to these "worthless", "evil", "dangerous" dogs, and the people like you who advocate this abuse don't care.

As far as I'm concerned, you're as guilty as the fucked up subhuman monsters that set fire to this puppy.



http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/01/04/puppy-set-on-fire-in-sacramento-8000-reward-offered-for-information/

[baldguy]

191. People like you set fire to that puppy.

[uppityperson]

193. THANK YOU JURORS!!!

[pintobean]

223. I just found out a few things

The Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT on this post.

I'm not on your blacklist
.
One can serve on a jury in a thread that they recced.

I voted to leave it.

[L0oniX]

228. "member's posting privileges were revoked on Dec 31, 1969" Wow

Information on this Transparency page is currently displayed to logged-in members because the member's posting privileges were revoked on Dec 31, 1969.

Hey Elad ...uhm ...a little coding error

[AnnetteJacobs]

229. Must have been a particularly egregious infraction

to have been banned retroactively all the way back to 1969!

[Texasgal]

188. its awful how much pitts

Are defiled and used in our society! This thread breaks my heart.

[Nine]

194. I'll be interested to see if this thread gets hidden...

...considering that two of my posts showing pit bull injuries to humans were hidden for being too graphic:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022828732
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022848792#post36


Also not sure what the point is here. Pit bulls can be abused like any other animal therefore they can't possibly be dangerous or aggressive? Tigers can be abused too. That doesn't make them suitable as pets.

[baldguy]

195. The abuse & neglect of irresponsible owners creates dangerous dogs.

And irresponsible, sensationalistic media, along with uninformed morons who push the characterization of these dogs as worthless, evil, monsters with no redeeming qualities creates the abuse.

[Nine]

196. Got it. If I believe pit bulls should be regulated I'm responsible for the actions of animal abusers

Not a stretch at all.

[baldguy]

197. It's good to see you admit how poisonous, destructive & disingenuous it is to believe otherwise.

Animals abusers, their supporters & those who enable them are the lowest & worst humans around. I'm sure you'll agree.

[Nine]

198. Is this really how you want to represent your side?

In other posts you've called legislation of pit bulls "genocide". Now you're saying that anyone who disagrees with your views is basically an animal abuser. Do you really feel you're making a strong case for your side? I have posted about injuries and fatalities done by pit bulls but I have never said anything like, "People who own pit bulls just like seeing children get mauled."

ETA - As I said in a recent thread, I don't think pit bulls are "evil":
"Dogs act according to their instincts and their breeding. Those dogs that have been bred for pit fighting now have an instinct for attacking without warning or provocation and for sustaining that attack as long as possible. Does this make pit bulls and similar fighting dogs 'evil'? No. But it makes them dangerous and it makes them unsuitable for continued breeding. Good and evil are constructs I will save for humans."

[Nine]

201. Keep it up. You're making a great ambassador for your side.

I disagree with your premise that pit bulls are always (or even usually) abused by people who fear their aggressiveness.

I would guess most animal abuse is done by the owners of the animals, not by people roaming around looking for animals to abuse, and certainly not by someone with a grudge against some particular breed. I think a lot of these pit bulls got abused because they were owned by bad people to begin with - criminals and low-lifes. I think pit bulls are more common among that element. Note that I am NOT saying that most pit bull owners are criminals.

[Nine]

204. Well I could post pictures of mauled children and accuse you of supporting it.

But I wouldn't stoop that low. I'll let you keep the monopoly on that tactic.

[flvegan]

208. Nah, you stooped.

ETA - As I said in a recent thread, I don't think pit bulls are "evil":
"Dogs act according to their instincts and their breeding. Those dogs that have been bred for pit fighting now have an instinct for attacking without warning or provocation and for sustaining that attack as long as possible. Does this make pit bulls and similar fighting dogs 'evil'? No. But it makes them dangerous and it makes them unsuitable for continued breeding. Good and evil are constructs I will save for humans."

Your quote.

You don't know anything about dogs or this breed in particular, do you?

[Nine]

219. Here's that quote in context

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2850318

I clearly was not implying that pit bull owners are evil if that's what you're getting at.

[cry baby]

200. And some say pit bulls are dangerous...seems people do much more harm

to other people and animals than any other species. Perhaps we should ban people. Goddamn those pics make me mad!

I have a rescue pit mix. He's as sweet as honey and subservient to our other dog, a Brittany spaniel. He digs for moles and barks at dragonflies...that's about the extent of his aggressive nature.

[wercal]

202. I think you are making a linkage that isn't there

I favor bsl (there, I said it). But I don't think my attitude about them somehow leads to a general attitude of worthlessness towards them, which manifests itself as cruelty to the animal.

Its the exact reverse.

Its precisely because people fight these dogs and are deliberately cruel to them (to make them more aggressive fighters) that I prefer bsl.

Look, the bottom line is pit bulls can kill. A few years ago here in Topeka we got rid of bsl, to the delight of pit bull owners. Guess what happened six months ago? I think you can fill in the blanks...young child...pit bull...mauled to death.

And I have worked in a shelter...and you left a very important detail out. You should share the whole story. I will:

These pit bulls aren't being euthanized solely because they violate bsl, are they? So why are they being euthanized? Well you should tell the folks - the shelter destroys dogs to fulfill court orders. Court order? Oh yes - that court order to destroy the dog, that you get when a dog bites a human.

I am absolutely sure that I'm not going to convince you of anything, so I don't want to get into a long winded debate. I just wanted to let people know that pit bulls get destroyed because...well....they bite people.

[baldguy]

205. You don't really get a broad spectrum of normal canine behavior in a high-kill shelter, do you?

You get the disposable dogs that people want to throw away.

I would hazard to guess that about 90% of the animals you kill are put to death unnecessarily. If they bite, it's because of the actions of people who never suffer the consequences of their actions.

The connection between abuse & aggression is well known & well understood - at least among people who understand canine behavior. (And no, spending your free time shoveling puppies into the gas chamber doesn't qualify you.)

[wercal]

207. Go ahead. Insult me.

I don't think you understamd the dynamics of a kill shelter. The people working there all love animals....and they don't kill them for sport. But over half get destroyed...that is the end result when people don't neuter their animals. And no kill shelters don't change that dynamic...at the end of the day, as long as there are more pets than owners, animals will ultimately get destroyed.

And you should be appalled (and take a good introspective look in the mirror) at how many dogs in the shelter were pit bulls...forty percent. Such a large percentage that, if it weren't for the pit bulls, we would actually be on the cusp of equalizing the equation and not needing a kill shelter.

So go ahead and insult me (really you are insulting the vets who volunteer to do the euthanasia)...and completely ignore the fact that we are the ones left holding the bag and doing the dirty work to fix a problem caused by pit bull 'lovers,.

[99Forever]

224. Ahhh yes.

"If you're one of the sick fucks who want to indiscriminately ban Pit Bulls, then you are responsible for abuse like this. And you are just as bad as the people who abuse them."

Yep. I'm every bit as "responsible" for selective gore you posted, as the Abolitionists were for the evil of slavery and the Allies were for the Nazi death camps.

And those tens of thousands a year of gun deaths would just disappear if us "gun grabber" types would just stop trying to get some sane restrictions on the sales, possession, and use of deadly weapons.

You are full of shit.

[dipsydoodle]

226. Its some of the owners of those dogs who need putting down :

not the dogs.

[War Horse]

233. Would have rec'ed this post if not for this:

"And you are just as bad as the people who abuse them." This is totally over the top.