IMO, people who diss Angelina Jolie

[darkangel218]

Are just jealous. There is no other explanation, because she's an amazing human beign who has dedicated her life to helping others.

That's all, and good night.

[hlthe2b]

1. It appears to be predominently men doing so... which raises some significant questions...

Given some of the ugliness posted here and elsewhere, it seems clear that a minority has some real issues--regardless of how they might feel about her as an actress and celebrity....

[AnotherMcIntosh]

5. "predominently men"? What, even remotely, leads you to that conclusion?

[hlthe2b]

7. I never said "me" (i.e., you?)

I said mostly men--and if you have seen the tweets and comments on Huffpo, as well as a few here, you wouldn't need to ask that.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

10. typographical error - now corrected

True, you never said "me".

You are the one who said "predominately men".

You've said that you've seen that. How many posters that you've seen with an animosity towards Angelina Jolie identified themselves as such? Can you quantify that, either by number or percentage?

[H2O Man]

12. circumsized vs uncircumsized

[hlthe2b]

23. to the men who have expressed compassion and understanding of the issue

such as this comment from 1StrongBlackMan (and others), http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2866800 I say kudos... Should the women in their lives experience such a difficult situation, I have no doubt they will receive the understanding and support to carry them though.

But, for those whose idea of compassion is to suggest Jolie's action is inconsequential, or a "publicity stunt" or other equally ugly comments, I despair for the women in their lives.

And, yes, most of those comments are coming from males. While Jolie may have her female detractors, there is no way a woman would ever diminish another woman to nothing more than a set of breasts and post that Brad will now be "bonking" the maid. Those and other similar comments are unfortunately not hard to find.

Most of the DU comments have fortunately been of the former set, which still are despicable but not as horrendously misogynistic.

Again, I applaud the DU men who "get it".. Those who focus only on how this impacts THEM as men (or by extension their perceived loss of sexual gratification to Brad" are deserving of nothing more than contempt.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

24. there are also people who can be relied upon to jump into threads in order to try and tell us

That certain excessive and arcane calculations were not done by the poster, therefore:

[font size=4 ]MEN NEVER DO THAT AND SEXISM DOESN'T EXIST, so stop saying that!!!! 11! 1 [/font ]

[AnotherMcIntosh]

33. "people who can be relied upon to jump into threads" -- Referring to yourself?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

38. oh, are you part of "the brotherhood"?

You know...you guys who avoid addressing anything substantive. Just gotta slag women--and then band together to support each other when women call you on that shit.

And don't try to claim you and brotherly little pal aren't singling out women for abuse---because if you were merely guardians against discussions of discrimination, you'd be jumping in to slag people analyzing racism and homophobia.

Funny how I've never seen you or your he-man's club members aim at those discussions.



Thank you for kindly providing an example of the behavior. Fascinating.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

42. Are you? n/t

[BainsBane]

2. Who knows what the fuck is wrong with these people

but it's not that many of them. I've only noticed one actually.

[H2O Man]

3. Recommended.

Speculation on my part, but I assume that her decision was a difficult one for her to make.

I'm not a "fan" of actors and actresses, etc. But she strikes me as an honorable human being.

[lumberjack_jeff]

4. It'd be wonderful to have her looks and her money...

... and her legions of fans willing to come to blows with anyone who dares to disagree with the amazingness of her human beign-ness.

I don't understand celebrity worship. "Objectification"? Absolutely. Unless your TV is much larger than mine, she's a roughly 10" tall object in my living room, and she's there because a movie studio considers her an attractive subject.

The funny thing about this is the dozens of posts (and blog articles) telling men that "her masectomy is none of your business!!!!".

Thing is, unless Jolie has roughly 400 sock puppets on DU, they're not your boobs either.

Your opinion that she's courageous for electing to have this surgery is no more or less valid than someone who considers it injudicious.

And men get breast cancer too.

[hlthe2b]

8. It isn't coming to defense of her and her celebrity... It is recognizing a very difficult choice and

her courage in making that very personal decision public.

I care little for her or any other celebrity for celebrity alone. She, however, has managed to do some good with her celebrity and wealth, along with Pitt. They are both progressives and deserve at least a few kudos for that.

This ugliness some are perpetuating is inexplicable to me, though.

[lumberjack_jeff]

9. She's just a person, maximizing her opportunities and doing the things that bring fulfillment.

As people, we're all a mixed bag of good and bad wrapped in self-interest.

I am pretty cynical about the economic and social value of "celebrity".

[BainsBane]

11. I haven't built any homes for folks displaced by Katrina

Have you? I find it interesting that the celebrities that draw most criticism are the ones that try to do something for others, as opposed to the ones sitting around stuffing cocaine up their noses all day long.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

25. a celebrity who lives that old saying,"To whom much is given, much is expected"

Is pretty damn respectable!

Don't hold your breath waiting for a response, by the way. You're messing with his script.

[lumberjack_jeff]

28. Her celebrity is her asset. It's impossible to separate the things she does for altruistic reasons.

Her job is to sell soap. The fact is, lending one's celebrity to charity causes is a good investment for all parties concerned.

No one gives a shit when I dig a ditch or swing a hammer for Habitat for Humanity... except me. I only know why I do it.

That said, due to the absence of paparazzi, I suspect that the motivations of the people working alongside me are similar to mine.

[BainsBane]

47. Her job is to act

I'm not going to resent her because she has been fortunate economically or by winning the genetic lottery. My point about celebrities that use their fame for good vs. hedonism still applies.

[lumberjack_jeff]

50. I don't resent her for it. Neither do I idolize her for it.

The difference between using one's fame for charity and using charity for fame is subtle.

[BainsBane]

58. The last thing she needs is more press attention

She definitely doesn't seek it out.

[lumberjack_jeff]

59. not sure if serious. nt

[LanternWaste]

80. I imagine I'd do my best to trivialize, minimize and call into question the motivation

I imagine I'd do my best to trivialize, minimize and call into question the motivations why someone is doing so much good in the world if my own lack of any profound good relative to hers were implicated in any way, too.

[lumberjack_jeff]

89. "If"?

Tell me a story about Bill Gates. Surely his capacity for "profound good" must make him the awesomest human being that ever lived. It is a testament to his awesomeness that he willingly debased himself to tread upon on the same dirt we morlocks have contaminated by our passage.

The difference with Bill is that being a celebrity doesn't pay him very well. His money comes from other things. It's harder to connect his income stream to the Gates foundation's work on the topic of global health, for instance.

And you don't need to repeat your subject in the message. It's redundant.

[redqueen]

90. Whathefuck?! Newsflash: The difference is Bill's overwhelmingly RIGHT-WING, PRO CORPORATE largesse.

FFS!

[lumberjack_jeff]

91. You're just jealous that you can't match his amazing human beign-ness.

You're attacking to compensate for your "own lack of any profound good".

We are all mixed bags of good and bad.

[WeekendWarrior]

18. And I'm pretty cynical about

the value of pomposity.

[sheshe2]

34. What?

She's just a person, maximizing her opportunities and doing the things that bring fulfillment.

You think Jolie is getting "fulfillment" from a double mastectomy! Are you serious?!!!!

I may not be a fan, however that statement is just low.

If she helps just one woman, in making a choice that could benefit her health and her life, then I thank her!

[lumberjack_jeff]

40. a) the words in my mouth? I choose them.

b) She's not Jesus. She didn't sacrifice herself to take away mankind's sins. She does what she does and says what she says for her own reasons.

Adversity and difficult choices face us all. She chose one path and there's no more reason to sanctify her than to criticize her for it.

Personally, I hope doctors, not People Magazine, help women make their medical choices.

[sheshe2]

44. 1) I never said she was Jesus.

2) My question was: Do "You think Jolie is getting "fulfillment" from a double mastectomy!"


ful·fill·ment [fool-fil-muhnt]
noun
1.
the act or state of fulfilling: to witness the fulfillment of a dream; to achieve fulfillment of one's hopes.
2.
the state or quality of being fulfilled; completion; realization: a vague plan that had no hope of fulfillment.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fulfillment

[lumberjack_jeff]

53. It's a question now? Then your answer is "no."

The point I was making is that she's a celebrity and as such it's impossible to separate her good works from things she does for publicity. Further, it's presumptuous to claim to know the difference.

People are complicated. If I'm showered with accolades for doing a good thing, that is one kind of fulfillment. If it subsequently brings me wealth, that another kind. If I repeat that process enough times my motives are ambiguous.

If I get a movie role partly because of my recent two page article in Vogue for (insert worthy cause here), motivations are impossible to determine.

[Tien1985]

15. Men are not often

Judged by their chest or lack of. At least people don't often start conversations like, "I don't find Lance Armstrong attractive, and I don't understand why so many people think/thought he was sexy, also, I find his use of steroids troubling." How things are said is important.

I really don't watch much tv, and rarely catch movies. As far as I'm concerned, Jolie once played something in a batman movie (I think). I couldn't care less about her as a celebrity. Even the doctor in the link you posted said Jolie is a good model. It appears she went public with this in part because it will help others. That's pretty cool. Personally if some actor came out about his fight with breast cancer, I think that'd be pretty cool, too. Wasn't there even some guy who did?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

29. "unless Jolie has roughly 400 sock puppets on DU, they're not your boobs either." <---

how dare you.

How fucking dare you.





By now, I should be used to you coming along to minimize women's experience, and to slag women who do good things in the public arena.

But I'm not.

[lumberjack_jeff]

30. LOL!

How dare "I"?

How ludicrous. Your opinion about what medical procedures she should choose, or value judgments to apply to the choice, are no more valid than anyone else's.

She made her choices for her own reasons. Nevertheless, the sisterhood is rallying the troops around her as a cause celebre. Now she'll sell even more soap. Was her editorial clever or conscientious? It is impossible to tell the difference.

I don't get celebrity worship at all. You'd think I just ripped up a photo of the pope.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

37. oh no, this isn't about celebrity worship at all. And, your dogwhistle is noted.

"The sisterhood"--a well known insult used in attempts to disable feminist discussion---- and to sabotage those who dare to stand up against the detractors.

What shall we call the men whose main goal in internet life is devalueing women?

[ReRe]

49. I think the word you're looking for is....

.... misogynist.

[delrem]

46. No. This isn't "selling soap" ffs.

This is recognized as important just because she is who she is, regardless of whether anyone is a fan, or likes her or likes celebrity culture. It helps mainstream many issues regarding cancer and esp. breast cancer that are easily swept under the rug, so the majority are unaware.
Just one example
http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2013/may/19/angelina-jolie-cancer-row-genetic-technology
Angelina Jolie's cancer decision highlights row over genetic technology
Concerns that firms' rights to hold patents on genes linked to breast cancer is pushing up cost of testing for disease.
Also highlighted are issues w.r.t. affordability in countries which don't have regulated single payer care.

Another big issue that your crankiness dismisses is psychological, the fact that a good part of Angela Jolie's celebrity is based on her looks, her associations with "the beautiful people" - not to diminish her talent and achievement in any way. Whatever contempt one may have toward the 100% celebrity oriented papers and mags and shows, and the people who are addicted to tuning in, the fact is that when those mags and shows now tout her as being even more beautiful and courageous it is stereotype breaking and is positive.

[ScreamingMeemie]

6. I would agree if this read, "IMO, people who diss Angelina Jolie over her decision to have a double

mastectomy..."

I diss her all the time... for her acting.
... for her clothing choices.
... for her "dramatic poses."
... for her "blood" marriage to BillyBob.

But never for her humanitarianism.

They put themselves in the spotlight and should expect a bit of commentary.

However, to diss her for shining light on this subject is ridiculous.

[pintobean]

13. Rec. If they don't have anything nice to say

they're just stirring shit.

[BainsBane]

14. +1

It's possible to have a thoughtful discussion about breast cancer and preventative mastectomies without passing judgment on her appearance. As an aside, I would love to be so unattractive.

[pintobean]

19. To me, she seems to be weird

and has a huge heart. Weird can be a good or a bad thing. With her, it's a good thing.

I don't have much interest in any celebrities, so that's just a casual observation/opinion.

[Cha]

16. There is no excuse to diss her now.

I'm not a fan but she's done something that will surely help women in the same crisis. Good on her.

[randome]

17. 'Dedicating her life' might be a bit of hyperbole. But I agree with everything else.

We only see one tiny facet of a celebrity. None of us know her as a person.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[lumberjack_jeff]

32. "might be a little bit of hyperbole"? Ya think? n/t

[Marrah_G]

20. Everytime I hear someone say "oh they are just jealous" I think of high school

Perhaps maybe they just have a different opinion for whatever reason. I happen to like her. But to classify people who don't like her as jealous is just really, really juvenile.

[randome]

21. 'Not liking' her is one thing. Going out of the way to belittle her is another.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Marrah_G]

22. True, but neither assumes jealousy

I like to belittle Sarah Palin. I am not jealous of her. Her juvenile fan base would probably say I was. It's just a phrase I find irritating and rarely accurate.

[HiPointDem]

62. +1.

[Shrike47]

26. Especially Jennifer Aniston.

[Canuckistanian]

27. I'm jealous

I'd love lips like hers. My wife doesn't share my enthusiasm.

[DesertFlower]

31. i agree. nt

[sheshe2]

35. K&R!

Thank you darkangel! I agree.

[ZombieHorde]

36. I want to rec this, but I feel like I shouldn't assume motivation.

I have a lot of respect for Jolie.

[me b zola]

39. Helping by stealing poor families children?

[BainsBane]

70. Is that what you call adoption?

[Deep13]

41. Actually there are pretty good alternate explanations...

...most of which do not involve junior high school rationalizations.

[NRaleighLiberal]

43. Oh, really? That's a really remarkable, arrogant, assumptive statement.

[NYC_SKP]

51. Reductio ad absurdum....

We get it all the time here, don't we?

Off Topic:

I have some volunteer tomatoes all around the rancho and they make me think of you!

[NRaleighLiberal]

54. Is it the skinny green foliage? the aromatic aroma? the promise of red orbs to come?

[NYC_SKP]

56. It's the memories!

High School Summers spent in the commercial fields, and farm life before that with huge gardens, self sustaining were we, and even sold a bit of surplus to one of the supermarkets in town for extra money.



That and the orbs!

[davidthegnome]

45. Not interested in dissing her...

I'm not really interested in her period. The media circus, while annoying, is at least good for perhaps shedding some light on the issue.

I have yet to notice anyone going to any lengths to insult her, particularly based on her decision, I probably missed some threads about it somewhere.

What gets to me is that plenty of women have had this procedure... and the world ignores it and goes about it's business. Yet when someone like Angelina Jolie does it, suddenly the whole damn world is sitting up and paying attention, because the media is suddenly very interested. Why do you think the media is suddenly interested? It's not because of the procedure she's having - it's because she's a celebrated, beautiful woman who is greatly desired by men. It's not because she's a woman, that is, not for that reason primarily. The media's intentions have shit all to do with anything noble or progressive - generally speaking.

It's good that this is being talked about... but why does it take someone like Angelina Jolie having this operation to get a real conversation going? I'm not judging her personality, her character, or her personally. I just think it's sad that it requires the celebrity status of someone like Angelina for the talking heads to start pretending to give a damn - and for most of the rest of us to actually think about it.

I suppose if it doesn't effect us personally - and if it's not a celebrity doing it, most of us either don't know, or don't care.

[darkangel218]

67. "plenty of women have had that procedure"

Plenty more women who may be at risk don't even know about the BRCA gene test. She could've kept it secret, but she chose to share it with the public and thus spread awareness on this extreamly important subject.

I personally don't care much for her movie career, I just respect her as a woman and as a person who chose to share her fortune with others. She didn't have to do that either, but she did. And for those who're saying that she "stole babies".. those babies would have had a very bleak future if any, if were left in their impoverished homelands. She gave smiles and happiness and HOPE to so many.

It's sad not everyone can see it.

[davidthegnome]

74. A fair point.

You're right. The fact that she made this public does say something about the kind of person she is - that she would deliberately use her celebrity status to increase awareness of this issue. I've always been a glass is half-empty kind of guy... but I'm trying to be more glass is half-full. I suppose I look at the more cynical, shady aspects of just about everything before I consider the lighter side.

Aside from being a very beautiful woman, she seems to have a beautiful heart as well. I don't really know squat about her acting career - I watched Tomb-Raider some years ago and thought it was absolutely dreadful. However much talent she might have as an Actress though, it's great that she's doing something good, something positive with her money and status. If more people, -particularly if more celebrities - acted in this manner, I might not find our Nation's celebrity obsession so severely depressing and shallow.

Glass is half-full... while I'd gladly tell the talking heads to go to Texas (don't believe in hell) perhaps Angelina really is an admirable human being. Something to be said for that.

[DeSwiss]

48. K&R!!! n/t

[badtoworse]

52. I feel a great deal of empathy for her; she deserves support.

[ReRe]

55. Yes, but it's a particular type of jealousy...

... I can't put my finger on it. Seems like it occurs when someone famous and RICH does good in the world on a massive scale, there are certain people who come out of the woodwork and from beneath the rocks to diss them. Then the media joins in, giving the sociopathic voice. It's hateful and it's vile. It's EVIL.

[tech3149]

57. IMO, I don't give a shit

For her it was a personal decision that may or may not be correct. For the professionals that advised her and performed the services, I hope they worked to the highest standards of their profession.
For those that want to bitch and moan and pontificate about the issue, I'd advise STFU because even the hand ain't listening.
When you have to deal with the same situation, I'll be the first one to lend a sympathetic ear or a shoulder to cry on. Hell, I'll even paint your porch or cut your grass.
I might even take care of your 12 kids, only for a couple of months, but seriously it's her decision based on her professional advice.
The fact that she discussed her decision in a public forum opens the topic to discussion. I am not a medical professional but I've worked with them for better than 3 decades.
They're trained to think a certain way and fed concepts of what treatments work but most of it is just hooy, BS, shit salad.
Most medical "professionals" have so little training or even exposure to dietary, naturopathic, homeopathic responses to ailments I wonder why we even trust their judgment.
Our so called medical profession doesn't try to cure any ailment, they just try to find ways to sustain you and make you feel better so you will pay the bills.

[bunnies]

85. ^^ this ^^

[CrawlingChaos]

60. This is absurd, there are very good reasons not to like her

I make it a point to know who the right-wing celebrities are so I can avoid supporting their work. Angelina Jolie falls into the Randian category.

I first became aware of this when she was trying very hard to get a movie version of Atlas Shrugged made, starring herself and Brad Pitt:

http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2008/06/18/angelina-jolie-calls-atlas-shrugged-once-in-a-lifetime-film/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/jan/28/books.film

That is disgusting, and it can't be dismissed lightly. IMO there's no rationale for claiming that someone is both an admirer of Ayn Rand and still a good person. The very essence of Rand's philosophy is fuck the poor, I've got mine.

Furthermore, for all Jolie's alleged concern for the plight of refugees, she always seems to be supporting some military intervention or another. Remember when she wrote (or at least put her name to) this disgusting piece of pro-Iraq-war propaganda?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/27/AR2008022702217_pf.html

Yes our military is such a beacon of humanitarian goodness.

And in another telling moment which I have not forgotten, during the 2008 campaign when everyone was so ecstatic to finally see the last of the BushCo, and so hopeful about Obama -- Jolie gave an interview in which she stated that hadn't yet made up her mind and was considering both Obama and McCain/Palin!! Now really, if you're truly someone who cares about refugees, in a million years are you going to consider for even one nanosecond voting for that most belligerent of warhawks, John Fucking McCain? It just doesn't add up.

My guess is that she's just not that bright and has been unwittingly used by power players who exploit her celebrity and apparent need for constant adoration.

[darkangel218]

61. Jennifer, is that you?

Lol.

[Marrah_G]

68. How old are you?

[ScreamingMeemie]

88. 15... tops. At least, I hope.

Otherwise the behavior is very strange. He/she is even lashing out at those who agree with a part of his/her statement.

[BainsBane]

69. DUzy!

Though I suspect they won't really consider it.

[HiPointDem]

63. +100.

[darkangel218]

64. lol

[HiPointDem]

65. i find you as lol as you find me

[darkangel218]

66. I find you ... fill in the blank.

Enough said.

[leftynyc]

71. Sorry - I don't do celebrity worship

She's done some good stuff, she's done some bad stuff (sleeping with another woman's husband). She made a difficult choice and good for her to bring the subject out into the open and if she uses her name to highlight that many insurance companies will not pay for the kind of preventative treatment she got, I'll sing some more praises for her. But I hardly think she's amazing.

[darkangel218]

72. Insurence companies DO pay for BRCA!! i fuking had the test two years ago!!

Perheps you should educate yourself before making FALSE statements!!

Jeez!!

[leftynyc]

73. The test - yes

How well do they cover the mastectomies and or the removal of ovaries or a uterus. A friend of mine did exactly what Angelina did and it cost her $150,000 personally to get it done. Thankfully she was financially able to do it but how many people have that luxury? Do you think that's fair?

And so sorry - I seem to have dumped on your angel of perfection.

[BainsBane]

75. Most do if the person tests

at the kind of probability for cancer Jolie did. That is at least what NPR reported.
My understanding is that ACA requires that they do so.

[leftynyc]

76. My point is that even with

insurance (which my friend had but this was before ACA kicked in), she had to come up with a pile of money to get it done (the mastectomies and the reconstruction). Not many people can afford that.

[bettyellen]

82. Wow, I hope that's true! I bet a lot of people didn't know that.

[darkangel218]

78. My insurence would have paid for entire cost of surgery

Minus 10% my co payment.

Dumped on my angel of perfection/? My mom is dying of breast cancer, thanks a lot for telling me how perfect my life is.

[leftynyc]

79. I'm sorry about your mom

but I would appreciate you never putting words in my mouth the way you've done here. The only woman I've spoken of here is Angelina Jolie and to pretend otherwise is simply not true.

[ScreamingMeemie]

81. THANK YOU!!!

[darkangel218]

83. LOL!!

And on the end of the day, Jolie and anyone else who brings genetic testing and premptive surgery into the light, wins.

Positive will always outweigh the negative, no matter what.

; )

[ScreamingMeemie]

84. What I love most is how you conveniently skipped over my sensible post to you yesterday.

Please go back and read it...between lols. Thank you.

[darkangel218]

86. NOT interested in your negativity.

Goodbye.

[ScreamingMeemie]

87. You mean the part where I defended her humanitarianism? Okay.

I guess we can see how slavishly devoted you are.

[quinnox]

77. that is a good illustration of typical "fanboy" thinking

It is the same way with devoted fans and any celebrity or even certain companies. Example - You don't like Apple's products? You must be a "hater!" Or you are just uncool. Because anyone who is cool likes Apple. | As someone earlier said, it is simple-minded fanboy-like defensive thinking.

I like Jolie as an actress, mainly because of a recent movie I really liked her in, but that doesn't mean I don't think other people can dislike her or think she sucks. I think an earlier poster was correct, it is pretty silly to say "you must be jealous" to anyone who doesn't happen to like your favorite celebrity. No, maybe they just think the celebrity sucks. Maybe they think the celebrity can't act/sing/is an asshole/whatever. There are many possible reasons other than "you are just jealous!"