As an atheist, I shopped at a Christian bookstore today

[bobja]

Those darn Seventh Day Adventists are the only ones around here who sell those delicious vegetarian Loma Linda Big Franks in a can. Yum. Plus, I got some cans of Vege-Burger for the meat-free chile I'll make later this week. Good stuff.

While there, I only read the ingredients on the cans, not any of their literature.

Yes, the store is open on Sunday since their sabbath is Saturday. I hadn't know that. But I do wish other stores sold those items. Yet, I have no problem buying food from them. Seems they do know how to eat healthfully.

Just thought I'd share. Mrs. Bobja and I will now go and grill us some Big Franks!

[Warpy]

1. If you read the labels on those cans

you know they're better living through chemistry, which is why health food stores generally don't stock the stuff.

I remember it in the 70s at a vitamin store that didn't know any better. Some of it is really, really good. However, their products do have a lot of crap in them.

ETA: Amazon sells their stuff if you use a lot of it.

[bobja]

2. There is a lot of stuff in them,

but it's mostly flavorings. Sure it's highly processed food, but better than "meat" hot dogs. Red #3, as the last ingredient is the only chemical I see. The rest is food derived ingredients.

I don't eat them often, and they taste better than dogs I've tried from health food stores. These were recommended by my wife, a former health food store manager.

[Warpy]

3. Then they've changed for the better

I seem to remember Tofu Pups were pretty good veggie hot dogs back in the day. Hot dogs are one thing the natural foods people managed to duplicate early.

Health food store managers often eat stuff they wouldn't carry in the store. I was one and I did.

[DesertFlower]

8. i remember tofu pups. i was vegetarian for a while

around '85.

i used to shop at a health food store in new york where the owner would not carry anything that had sugar or white flour.

[BlueStreak]

9. "Have a blessed day"

I don't have any problem doing business with religious people if they don't insist on shoving their views down my throat (and most do not).

But I must admit, few things annoy me more than a Christian slipping in a "Have a blessed day" at the end of a conversation. I consider that an aggressive act. I wish I could think of a similar pleasant-sounding phrase that would allow me to communicate my preference for the reality-based world rather than imaginary spirits.

I'm thinking something like "We have but one chance in this universe. Make the most of this opportunity.", but that really doesn't do it. I need something a bit more pithy.

Can anybody help me out here?

[arely staircase]

11. would it bother you if a wiccan said that?

it wouldn't me and I am a Christian. When people of other faiths wish me well in a way that is identified with their faith, I take it as what it is - a wish/prayer/whatever for my wellbeing.

[BlueStreak]

19. I don't think a Wiccan would say that.

This is a rhetorical game, and a very aggressive one. I do agree that many people do it so commonly they don't even think of it as a challenge, but to me it is in the same general category of the Mormons posthumously baptizing people of other faiths.

I'm sure they don't understand why anybody would consider that a hostile act.

[arely staircase]

20. i think you see aggressiveness in the way small groups of fundies see it in happy holidays

if someone wishes you well, accept it and be thankful for meeting a nice person.

[BlueStreak]

21. Yes, I think that is true

But I also recognize the normal greeting would be "Have a nice day" which I greatly appreciate and respond in kind. It is a conscious choice to substitute "blessed" for "nice" and we all know exactly what is going on here. There can be an argument whether it rises to the level of deserving a response or whether Christian zealots should be entitled to a free shot whenever they want. I get the argument that it is a misdemeanor, not a felony, on the scale of bad manners in the name of proselytizing.

I did a little searching and discovered that many people are as annoyed by this as I am, and nobody has been able to come up with very good counter-measures. One suggested "Have a scientific day", but saying that preemptively would be pretty dickish to somebody who had no intention to proselytize in the first place.

Someone else suggested "May Cthulhu eat you last." I had to look up that reference, so it surely would sail over the blesser's head.

The best suggestion I have seen is to respond to the "Have a blessed day" with "Live long and prosper". That should do the trick. I expect the blesser to thank me for my kind words because, you know, I'm just sharing good wishes.

[Major Nikon]

23. It's not the same at all, really

"Have a blessed day" is presumptuous. "Happy holidays" is not which is exactly why the fundies get wrapped around the axle over it. They like presumptuousness because it perpetuates the notion of Christian privilege. When Christianity is presumed, everything else becomes second class. That is exactly their objective.

The very best you can say about it is it's collective assholery whether intentional or not on an individual basis. Nobody said "have a blessed day" 20 years ago, so it's not the same as saying "Merry Christmas" which can often have a secular meaning through centuries of use. The only people who say it are evangelical Christians. It's not a big deal, but nice person is not what comes to mind when someone uses it. YMMV.

[arely staircase]

24. it is the same in that

someone is wishing you well. accept it and thank them instead of looking for reasons to get mad.

[Major Nikon]

26. I don't get mad about it

But neither do I think they are wishing me well or they are a nice person for doing it.

[arely staircase]

29. i'll take a religious based blessing or well wishing from anyone who wants to give it,

or a secular one. I am a Christian but is someone wishes me a happy Hanukkah or Diwali or Ramadan - all of which have happened, I'm not going to take offense. If some wiccan says goddess bless I would say thank you.

[Major Nikon]

32. That's not the same situation

In this country, as a Christian you have social privilege and don't have the experience of not having it. Spend your entire life without it and you don't necessarily have the same attitude.

[BlueStreak]

40. Now that you know that many people find this offensive, does that change anything?

I am perfectly happy to excuse one's using it is they truly were not aware that this is a dog whistle sort of term used intentionally and aggressively by many people.

But if a person keeps on doing that after they know that others find it offensive, there really isn't much of an excuse for that.

It is like watermelon comments and African-Americans. My (very white family) always enjoyed a lot of watermelon, and I never knew that some saw that as a pejorative until maybe age 17. If I continued to make watermelon references after knowing how others take it, that would be a very bad reflection on me.

So now that you know, does that change anything?

[liberal_at_heart]

25. You are right about it being mostly evangelicals. My father is an evangelical Christian.

I have to listen to all his televangelist tv crap. After you hear some of the crap they spout on tv you can't help but look at some of them as saying Have a Blessed Day as an aggressive act, not all of them, but definitely some of them say it so they can go away with a 'this is a Christian nation and it will always be a Christian nation' kind of satisfaction. The other day I had to listen to my dad spout out a bunch of garbage about how he believes women shouldn't serve in the military because he wants to protect them. I'm sorry but that is passive aggressivness. I told him that kind of attitude was well intentioned oppression, and I really only used the term well intentioned because I know he thinks his beliefs are altruistic. I don't think it is well intentioned at all.

[Major Nikon]

27. It's proselytizing

Which is assholery.

[RebelOne]

34. Yes, you are correct. I was a Wiccan for a few years,

but am an atheist now. But a Wiccan would not say that. But it does not bother me when salespeople say to me to have blessed day. I just reply, "Same to you."

[trof]

44. I take it as a "Look at ME! I feel called upon to share my faith with EVERYONE!"

meh
I've had good days and bad days.
None of them were 'bless-ed' or 'non bless-ed'.
And they sure as hell weren't affected by someone's 'wishes'.

[cordelia]

13. "Thank you" works for me any time I'm wished well by another. n/t

[KinMd]

22. I agree

...of all the things that might offend me, this isn't one of them

[Fla_Democrat]

14. If a person is wishing you well..

does it matter the words used? If you sneezed, and someone said "Bless you"... would it be an act of aggression?



"May Elune watch over you and yours..." the novice priestess whispered.

"May your ax arm be strong." he returned.

His peculiar response made her frown, but then she recalled what sort of life he must have lived. His wish for her was, in its own odd way, a wish for life and health.

"Thank you," she responded smiling.


"Have a blessed day" would normally get a "Thank You", or an "And to you", from me.

A "You're going to hell if you don't change your ways.." might elicit a stronger response.

[BlueStreak]

18. Actually I'm not looking for a retort. I want a pre-emptive strike

before they can land the "Blessed day" business on me. I agree the protocol is that if they can lay that on me, I have to shut up and say "thank you."

But I need a clever line I can use to get the jump on them -- and naturally they will be obliged to thank me.

[justiceischeap]

28. Well, one retort, if you must, is to use the same blessing on them.

I think evangelicals say "blessed" as in, "Jesus blessed the food." However, pagans say bless-ED... so you could always throw in "Bless-ed be" before they get out their blessing. They'll know you aren't Christian by using bless-ed. Or you could say, "Namaste" that'd really throw them off.

[arely staircase]

35. both pagans and christians use the blessED pronunciation.

I think

[OriginalGeek]

31. If I sneeze and someone says "Bless you"

I smile and say "No thank-you". Usually they look confused for a second and go on with their day but if they ask for an explanation I tell them I'm an atheist and thank them for allowing me to share my worldview with them. "Would you like to come to a meeting?"


That's where it gets dicey as there are no meetings. If they say yes I gotta come up with a meeting somewhere.

[BlueStreak]

36. Actually, the Center for Inquiry has lots of meetings.

They aren't "Atheist contraindication meetings". In fact, the subject of gods and worship probably don't come up in many of the meetings. They are more likely to be on the topics of science, reason, secular solutions to secular problems in our society, etc. So if there is a chapter near you, I think you would be on very solid ground mentioning meetings.

See more info here:
http://www.centerforinquiry.net/

[BlueStreak]

38. And for a sample, here is CFI's comment on the tornado

http://www.centerforinquiry.net/news/cfi_statement_on_the_tornado_disaster_in_oklahoma_and_the_midwest/

Everyone at the Center for Inquiry is heartbroken over the lives lost as a result of the tornadoes in Oklahoma and across the Midwest. Damage and devastation throughout the region is unprecedented, with yet-untold numbers of people injured, homes, schools, hospitals, and businesses destroyed, and tens of thousands without power. There is still a risk of further tornado activity even today.

We are reminded of the power of nature, and how diligent we must be in better understanding how our species contributes to the conditions that can lead to such natural disasters as tornadoes, hurricanes, and other destructive phenomenon.

But we are also reminded of human beings’ capacity for compassion and self-sacrifice in times of incredible strife and loss. We are heartened by the heroism and generosity of friends, families, communities, and total strangers who have wasted no time in committing themselves to rescue and recovery.

Let’s help them out, too. Please give what you can to support relief efforts such as the Red Cross.

[uriel1972]

15. One of my pet peeves...

All matter is made up of chemicals. The idea of chemical free something or other is ludicrous. /endrant

[RebelOne]

4. I am a vegetarian and an atheist,

and there is Christian book store in my neighborhood. I will check it out.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

6. Most Christian bookstores don't sell vegetarian food

only the ones run by Seventh Day Adventists.

[Warpy]

16. If they have Ten Talents, pick it up

It's the most user friendly vegan cookbook out there, good, plain everyday cooking without exotic ingredients. The preaching is there, but it's easy enough to ignore.

I'm on my third copy.

You will need a blender, though.

[kestrel91316]

17. It's like those Mennonite books - Living More With Less, and the

More With Less Cookbook. I use them and reread them all the time and don't have any issues with their religious foundations.

[undeterred]

5. They do have very good health habits.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/episodes/march-23-2012/seventh-day-adventists-and-health/10575/

[johnp3907]

7. Now I'm hungry.

And I just had dinner.

[arely staircase]

10. you bought groceries at a bookstore?

eom

[evlbstrd]

12. I've found that Catholic book stores

are a great source for costumes.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

33. And incense!!!

I burn incense outside by my Kwan Yin statue, just to baffle the neighbors. They have a large ancient Roman torture device in their yard.

[liberal_at_heart]

37. I love the smell of frankencense and myrrh incense.

[Bay Boy]

30. Why are you vegans so obsessed with

making your food into meat shapes? I don't have the chef make my steak into the shape of a carrot.

[politicat]

39. Because a tube or a patty conveniently tucks in a roll & leaves room for condiments.

Indian vegetarians have been making croquettes and patties for centuries to be wrapped in naan. Same with Chinese Buddhists (though their buns are wrapped around the center and the whole is steamed.) Modern falafel are spherical, but that's the result of technology. Before cheap deep frying, falafel were often croquette shaped because they were shallow fried and a croquette's shape means the heat gets to the interior faster than a ball.

Bread + filling = street food and street food has been around since approximately 5 hours after the invention of the street.

[Codeine]

43. Because it fits the buns you meat-eating bastards make!

[datasuspect]

41. praise hell

hail satan

[politicat]

42. It's okay. Christian book stores also carry excellent stealth tablet cases.

They call them bible covers or carriers, but the zipper ones are exactly the right size for a tablet or netbook. I usually get the plain black one, but I've given serious thought to the one marketed at Manic High School Evangelist girls - the bright pink WWJD one -- as device camouflage. After all, there's no point in stealing a bible, and if I leave it behind accidentally, the chances are very good that it will just get turned into lost and found.

Thanks for the pointer at the 7DA bookstore. It would be nice to have a few cans of palatable vegetarian protein in the emergency box. Beans are great, but it would be nice to have some variety in the ten day stash.