"The best thing you can do is pray"

[Demo_Chris]

This and similar expressions of faith have been a regular feature of the news coverage I have seen. Typically I am tolerant of this kind of thing, but tonight I think it demands a response. So here's mine:

No God caused this disaster. It wasn't supernatural punishment or part of any plan. It was something called weather. Weather is real, smashed homes and bodies are real, god is not. Expressing a belief is this magical being and calling upon him for assistance will not help anyone -- including the person doing the praying. It will only hurt. American does not need more magical thinking and belief in the supernatural, it needs less.

God cannot help, but science can. Science saved lives today, and it will save more in the days to follow.

[RudynJack]

1. Then send

the first responders home to pray.

We'll see how quickly these fake Christians change their tune.

[hrmjustin]

20. How do you know they are fake?

[GeorgeGist]

29. Be still and know ...

that god is a hoax.

[hrmjustin]

33. Your view not mine, but I respect your view.

[Deep13]

52. They're real Christians all right...

It's their god that's fake.

[hrmjustin]

54. Well we disagree but I respect your view.

[Deep13]

62. Thanks. nt

[MNBrewer]

104. Just curious

but what about it do you respect?

[hrmjustin]

107. I respect that he is not a believer. I respect the fact that others have differences from my view.

[MNBrewer]

108. so "respect" in the sense of "accept and acknowledge"

vs. "have admiration for"

[hrmjustin]

109. Accept and acknowlege, and live in peace with and discuss rationally about it.

[marions ghost]

110. +++

[Lex]

2. The best thing you can do to help at this point is donate

or volunteer.

[Dawson Leery]

3. +1,000,000,000,000

Our abilities to use logic and reason will give us more answers than prayer.

[sakabatou]

4. As the saying goes, "Two hands working does more than a thousand clasped in prayer."

[pokerfan]

32. One finger texting 'REDCROSS' to 90999

does more than two hands praying...

Text the word REDCROSS to 90999 to make a $10 donation.
http://www.kcbd.com/story/22303976/lubbock-red-cross-on-standby-for-oklahoma

[hrmjustin]

5. Prayer does not hurt.

Prayer helped me get through tough times. I don't think God did this either but there is nothing wrong with asking for prayer.

It is correct to say that there is more you can do besides prayer. Donate!

[CAG]

12. Are you not amazed at how quickly posts like this crap come out to spew their stuff? It reminds me

of every opportunistic televangelist

[hrmjustin]

17. People have their opinions and I respect that but a little respect back would be nice.

I agree saying all you can do is pray is not accurate but it does not hurt. Religious people donate despite what some may believe. Oh well!

[LostOne4Ever]

73. Agree

Its important that we respect each other and each other beliefs.

But also like you said, it is also important to make it clear that there are a lot of other things that can be done (in addition to prayer) that will help. Pray can give comfort to believers; but, it, by itself, can not provide shelter to those who lost their home.

Both could have put their messages in a way that is more sensitive to the belief (or disbelief) of others, but I think both the News media and the OP had nothing but the best of intentions in what they said.

Sorry that you feel disrespected

[hrmjustin]

88. Actually I understand what th OP was trying to say but it came out very wrong.

I am sorry the OP got locked out of the thread.

[Union Scribe]

48. They have it ready to go

and just change the name of the disaster to reflect the current headline.

[CAG]

50. Its unfortunate that we can practically predict their behavior. They really need

to get a little bit more subtle or unpredictable or something before they become total bores.

[RudynJack]

15. It doesn't hurt, no

but it doesn't help the victims, either.

It's far from the "best thing" one can do.

[hrmjustin]

18. that is your opinion that it doesn't help the victims.

I think it does. I agree that donating is a great thing to do. By the way many praying Americans will donate today and tomorrow.

[RudynJack]

22. I'm not denigrating prayer.

Pray all you want.

I dispute that it's the "best thing" one can do.

And numerous studies have shown third-party prayer has no effect on the targets. I'm sure it's comforting to the pray-or, but it doesn't do any thing for the "recipient".

I think a more valuable use of time would be to explain to any young people in your household what has happened, how people are impacted, and what can be done to help them. Maybe have them check their piggy-banks for any money they may be able to use to help. Later, when shelters are set up, they can give up some clothes, toys, etc. Maybe open a lemonade stand to raise money.

[hrmjustin]

23. I understand your point of view.

We all have our views.

[cynatnite]

66. It's fine if it helps you, but it does nothing for those you are praying for...

Donate is always the better option.

[hrmjustin]

67. Your view and I respect it. I don't agree that prayer does nothing for people.

[cynatnite]

68. I'm not sure if you understood what I was saying...

If you pray for yourself because you are going through a difficult time, I do believe it has the benefit of helping you deal with it.

If you pray for other people because they are suffering, it may help you deal with it, but it does nothing for them. They cannot know if anyone is or is not praying for them. They will not be benefited by it in any way.

[hrmjustin]

69. I get that point of view and yes it is a logical point of view,but I do think praying for someone

helps them. That is a matter of my faith.

[Gravitycollapse]

76. Except it has been demonstrated that prayer can actually hurt...

At least one credible study has demonstrated that patients who were told they were being prayed for recovered more poorly than those who were not told they were being prayed over. Turns out the pressure to live up to the will of God causes unnecessary stress.

[undeterred]

6. I really don't think it demands a response.

Certainly not a response that ridicules what many of the people experiencing this tragedy believe in.

[Logical]

7. Atheists "pray" with donations! n-t

[CAG]

10. christians do too

[Logical]

41. Donations are proved to work! n-t

[hrmjustin]

43. Are we wrong to pray. If we honestly have faith what is wrong with that.

[hrmjustin]

13. As do believers!

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. I was out and somebody told me that

Way out of the area...I had little patience.

No, the best thing you can do is find a way to help.

This person looked me in the eye and started to scold me...

I just answered back, "God helps those who help themselves" and walked away. My patience is really thin on this

[CAG]

9. I'll let all of the churches in the area that are providing food, lodging, and support to know

how you feel. How about letting those kids get out of the school before making light of their parents prayers. Meanwhile, why don't you go over to the freeper board to spew your little sarcastic wit, since its more in tune with their spirit.

[Demo_Chris]

28. You think Freepers are Atheists? nt

[CAG]

35. Yep, plenty of them are, their just not stupid enough to turn off people from their

political aims by constantly criticizing their faith.

[Demo_Chris]

37. I did not know that. I thought they were HARDCORE social conservatives other there...

Add that to the list of things I have learned today.

[kwassa]

53. Being a social conservative does not mean one is religious.

There is no essential connection there.

It is often simply about power.

[hrmjustin]

38. there are some.

[Mariana]

42. Those churches apparently agree with the OP.

Clearly, they don't believe "the best thing you can do is pray". If they did think that, they'd be spending all their time praying rather than providing food, lodging, and support.

[hrmjustin]

45. I doubt they would agree with the whole OP!

[Lady Freedom Returns]

11. No, it does not hurt.

It is a comfort to know people are praying for you. Don't dismiss it.

[hfojvt]

14. science can save lives

but it cannot make them worth living.

But you are right, the best that you can do is fall in love, not pray

Heck, I think prayer can help, jokes can help, music can help, singing can help, tears can help, hugs can help, kind words can help. Every little bit helps.

That's doubtless not scientific or efficient or economical, but there it is.

[cordelia]

16. Don't you ever give it a rest?

Praying doesn't hurt anything.

Action is needed.

You don't want to pray? Then DON'T.

And, just so you know, you've made yourself look small and petulant.

[CAG]

26. small and petulant are an understatement

I commend you for your restraint

[cordelia]

92. Thank you. Some days are more difficult than others.

Crap like the OP are making this site less and less attractive.

[pintobean]

19. "Typically I am tolerant of this kind of thing"

I'm calling bullshit. I think times like this demand tolerance. People deal with disasters in different ways. Fucking let them.

[Demo_Chris]

31. Have you been watching the Oklahoma news?

I have, and for fuck's sake at times it's like watching the 700 club. So yeah, I am normally pretty tolerant but this is getting to be ludicrous.

[pintobean]

40. Do you need a waaaambulance?

[undeterred]

47. Its too bad science can't teach you how to turn off the television.

[CAG]

55. Or be a little bit more compassionate describing watching people whose neighborhoods have just been

torn apart. Ugly, Ugly, Ugly. I thought all atheists were amazing, wonderful, compassionate, giving people. At least we're constantly told this by them every day here, and then a couple of their "representatives" come around here in times like these and just spew the hatred and ugliness.

[undeterred]

58. Intolerance stinks.

It has no compassion.

[Puzzledtraveller]

87. Maybe they were blinded with science

[Number23]

90. + a million. Really ignorant, really ugly, really stupid OP.

And the ridiculous stupidity in the OPs hidden post offends me more than watching people love, care and yes PRAY for one another ever will.

EDIT: Whoops, this was supposed to be in response to Post #55 but I'll leave it because I agree with this post too.

[CBGLuthier]

81. I seriously doubt that you are tolerant of anything

I am dismayed by the sickening garbage I have seen here since yesterday. Your description of our local news is stupid and meaningless. I do not respect your opinion I think it is mean-spirited and only furthers the argument that there is something WRONG with atheists.

And for the fucking record I am an atheist. You are a hate-filled small-minded person.

If I respond to all of the hate I have seen here I will be banned by the end of the week and that may just be fine with me.

[Bobbie Jo]

86. .

[Number23]

91. Thread Winner.

[cordelia]

93. Yes, indeed!

[truebrit71]

21. I have been biting my tongue as well...

...its at times like this that the religious are at their most deluded...surely the time to pray would have been BEFORE the fucking great big tornado came along and relocated a large portion of the town...

My thoughts and best wishes go out to the victims, especially the parents of the children, I cannot imagine their pain, but please spare me the faith-based babble because tonight, with at least 51 dead, this all powerful "god" seems to have dropped the ball a bit...

[CAG]

30. I'm sure there were lots of prayer before the tornado. Please spare me the

incredibly ill-timed "atheist/agnostic-based babble" because tonight, with at least 51 dead, most faith-based people aren't using up their time posting about how those atheists are at their most deluded.

[truebrit71]

82. That's because we're not the deluded ones...

....

[madrchsod]

24. that`s your opinion

there are a lot of folks down there who are praying. it`s not about your or my beliefs it`s about theirs.
i`m a spiritual person who believes there is more to existence than black and white. i live in that grey area and i like being there.

[H2O Man]

25. bless you!

[Demo_Chris]

36. Thanks. nt

[Arugula Latte]

34. My heart goes out to the people suffering there.

I'm sure many are "praying." But, yeah, are they praying to the same deity they believe either caused or failed to prevent the devastation? That is an abusive relationship. Many of them say: "God didn't do this." So do they believe their god only does good things? Or is it not omnipotent? I never understand this way of thinking. Even if you twist your brain into a pretzel it makes no sense. Still, everyone is expected to nod and go along with it. Yes, yes, let's all pray to the giant A-hole in the sky who seems to get off on human suffering. That is deemed an offensive statement in most parts of this country. But frankly I find the "Let's all pray" sentiment offensive.

Not that it matters. Nobody will change their minds, most likely. I'll just go donate.

[Dreamer Tatum]

39. "I'm an atheist AND I DEMAND ATTENTION!!!" nt

[CAG]

44. heehee

[Arugula Latte]

46. As opposed to the people demanding attention by demanding that everybody pray?

[truebrit71]

85. Right?

[cordelia]

94. Who did that? When? Didn't see it in this thread. Did I miss it?

Didn't see a link to it in the OP.

[Arugula Latte]

97. It's all over social media. "Pray for Oklahoma!"

Nobody says a word about the upteen thousands of people who post that, but once someone with a different view speaks out they're an attention-whore and told to shut up, which is par for the course when it comes to atheists. Churches can blare their ridiculous messages from their signs, people can invoke God and Jesus in public settings and expect everyone to bow their heads and go along with it, but the minute an expression of non-belief gets out there (on something like a billboard or a bus ad) it's "offensive" and "rubbing people's noses in it" and "screaming for attention."

It's a huge double standard.

[chollybocker]

49. Yeah, I heard that too, Demo_Chris.

The Governor of OK, on CBS News, was asked what people can do to help the situation, and she asked for people to "pray" and "say prayers" and then something about "miracles."

She should stfu and grab a shovel.

[CAG]

57. Even though I've never said a kind word about Gov Fallin, I bet she's working her a*& off tonight,

much more than us keyboard typers are doing.

[chollybocker]

65. Hope so. It's her job, after all.

But the praying part (ref: this thread) is a big waste of her time.

[Deep13]

51. If I were governor, right before being assasignated I would say...

"The worst thing we can do is pray. Don't waste time asking an imaginary friend for help. Do something instead! Pick up a shovel. Volunteer at the hospital. Anything."

[Rowdyboy]

56. Some of us who live far away and have nothing to give can't do anything more? Are we wrong to hope

for comfort for these people and the safety of their children? Does it hurt anything or anyone at all?

I expect when I go to bed tonight I'll offer up a hope for an easing of the unbelievable pain they face. Will it help them in any way? Doubtful. Will it help me cope with the tragedy and wrap my head around the deaths of so many innocent babies who only went to school on the wrong day? Maybe. I really don't ask for much more. And I really can't offer much more. Why begrudge me the little I can do or belittle my reasons for doing it? What do you gain by lessening my (or anyone's) emotional response?

It just seems hateful.

[hrmjustin]

59. Well said!

[Bobbie Jo]

61. +1

It is hateful, needlessly so.

[patrice]

70. It is hateful and hate is non-rational. Despite OP's words extoling science, that contempt comes

from someplace else.

[AngryOldDem]

80. It's amazing how much spite comes to the surface in a time like this.

I am by no means a religious person and I more often than not see coincidence where others claim miracles, and randomness where others find patterns, but if prayer helps people cope, far be it from me to mock or argue.

[patrice]

60. uh . . . not very anarchic of you, Chris, in fact, quite the opposite of that, Authoritarian. nt

[JI7]

63. it's not the "best thing" for everyone, but for some they really can't do much

and if prayer comforts them what is the problem ?

[LostOne4Ever]

64. The best thing you can do

I agree that the best thing people can do is to volunteer or donate.

But I also think that its necessary we non-believers keep in mind that most theists turn to their faith when confronted with these types of disasters. Saying something in favor of prayer is not meant to discourage people from donating but to give comfort. I don't see a problem with theists giving other theists comfort.

So, I don't think what the news coverage said was malicious, but it is a good idea on the part of us atheists/agnostics like us to remind everyone prayers alone wont feed the hungry, or help the injured. Further I think we can do that without tearing down something that comforts them.

[patrice]

71. THANK you!

[tavalon]

72. I don't believe in the traditional guy in the sky but I do believe in the power of

thoughtful caring. If that takes the form of meditation (prayer) so be it. Then, you roll up your sleeves and do what you can to help.

[Rowdyboy]

74. Seriously, if someone offers me "good vibes" and someone else offers "prayers"....

I tend to view them all the same. Then when you've done that-as you suggest-you roll up your sleeves and do what you can to help.

I think some posters here like to emphasize differences when we should be focusing on our commonalities.

[tavalon]

75. As I said on another thread, we all bleed red.

Tomorrow, I find a place to give blood. It won't help Oklahoma, but it will help replenish the supply.

[Rowdyboy]

77. Goddammit, I'm HIV positive and they don't want mine. But thank you for doing what you can tomorrow

And next month give some for me. Because if there was any way possible, I'd be right beside you. Giving blood (back when I was able) always made me feel really good.

[tavalon]

89. Sorry, dude, they wouldn't take mine either

because I broke my shoulder last month. Not sure what the connection is, but they seemed confident that they didn't want my blood. I hope your HIV is being controlled well. I want to see (and dance ) on the day they find a cure for that disease. It's funny, I hate that disease more than cancer because it attacks us sexually, and that's just an extra load of cruel.

[Rowdyboy]

96. Well under control due to good medical care and adequate perscription drug coverage....

Otherwise I would never have made it to 2000! When I was diagnosed in early 1998 they said I probably had 18 months at best. Now I take one pill a day and see the doc twice a year.

[tavalon]

111. That is magnificent to hear

May it be that way until you slip away in your sleep at age 101!

[In_The_Wind]

79. +1

[Inkfreak]

78. Oh looky, another ones of these...

Yawn.

[marions ghost]

83. Praying is wishing

that's how I see it. Asking for help from where ever it might come. Sometimes we need help.

Yes, a lot of inexcusable twistedness comes from extreme Xtians. But the simple act of wishing, of expressions from the heart for the best possible outcome, of acknowledging our human fragility in the face of forces that overwhelm us--these acts are not "bad" in and of themselves.

Putting out thoughts of sympathy and compassion--IF SINCERE (& that's a big if with some calling themselves Christians, duh)--but if sincere, often gives people strength to cope in a situation that defies rationality. And churches who rally to help certainly can be commended--they are able to harness the synergy of a group, and that in itself is not a bad thing. If harnessed for good.

Athiests--could you spare some compassion for those who feel better when they pray and band together to comfort each other, even if you think it's only a form of self-hypnosis?

[datasuspect]

98. praying is useless begging

servility worthy of a slave.

[marions ghost]

99. Directing thoughts of sympathy and compassion

...wishing & hoping for the best for others (or yourself)...is not servility. And is it useless if it helps you to help others in need? Asking for strength--even if it amounts to self-hypnosis--is that weak?

Whether prayer or self-hypnosis--some people need it. Now Religion (as opposed to praying/wishing)-- certainly can be carried to an extreme, as we see in this country today. But the simple act of wishing for the best--directing positive thought toward a person or a problem--that's what I call love & kindness & empathy. I think we need more of that good stuff.

You can make a religion out of anything--money, career, science, art, children, designer handbags. Doesn't have to be the standard religious traditions. That's what I'd worry about--the religions of greed and acquiring of power and things-- not the act of asking for help in this hard life.

Live & let live.

[datasuspect]

100. money talks

bullshit walks

[marions ghost]

105. OK LOL

My god is Bullshit. For Sure! I take that as a compliment. I come from a long line of Bullshitters.

Money talks--I guess that's your god? (Not sure if this is your meaning)

I think you'd like this vid. It kind of gets to the heart of your point maybe:

[Puzzledtraveller]

84. OUTRAGE!

[Phillip McCleod]

95. k&r

i'm over it.

the agenda of the fundies and dominionists and jihadists is clear.

so let's be clear..

fuck that.

[MotherPetrie]

101. Know what makes me crazy? THANKSGIVING SERVICES after natural disasters.

Yes, let's all THANK Gawd for sparing OUR asses while destroying our neighbors' -- let's PRAISE him for flattening our homes, schools, and businesses - let's be oh so humbly GRATEFUL he left us with the wreckage. Hey, at least WE'RE alive! So we better get our asses together and start kissing HIS ass ASAP, so he doesn't do it again any time soon.

Fuck that shit! That's no god I want any part of, and that's no cognitive dissonance belief system I want any part of.

[sarisataka]

102. Is it not possible to pray

and work at the same time?

[Tikki]

103. I don't know who said that quote...but the best thing you can do is plan ahead and listen to..

what others have successfully done to save life and limb; demand as much safety advantages as possible for all.


And then it is chance to a certain degree..
If a person wants to pray while taking care of business, well, it's their
time and their brain.

I'd hate to think someone would stop me from helping them or others because I don't pray.


Tikki

[olddots]

106. is there an Ap for praying ?

n.t.