Overnight rescuers saved 132.

[Graybeard]

The Lt. Gov. Of Oklahoma just said on an MSNBC interview that rescuers worked all night, some with just flashlights for illumination. Before the sun came up they had rescued 132 survivors who were buried under rubble or otherwise trapped.

Some wonderful stories of dedication and effort by the responders.

[uppityperson]

1. k&r, looking for positive news and thank you rescuers

[randome]

2. Damn, that's amazing!

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[tblue]

3. Question:

Actually, several questions:

Knowing this is an area with a history of devastating tornadoes, why aren't there more underground shelters? Why did schools have to improvise? Shouldn't they have had a tornado plan? Shouldn't they have had tornado drills, at least for faculty?

Not criticizing. Just trying to understand why there wasn't some kind of preparation.

[hack89]

5. Who says the schools improvised?

Last edited Tue May 21, 2013, 01:53 PM - Edit history (1)

in towns like Moore, they are very much aware of tornadoes and spend a lot of time planning for them. I can guarantee you the schools had a plan and they routinely held drills.

[loli phabay]

9. i dont get this idea that some people have, that these people are dumb

Or not as bright as people from other areas. When something this big hits there is not much to do but pray you get through it. The disconnect seems to be all over DU. There is only so much planning one can do but if the big one hits then sometimes you need luck.

[CBGLuthier]

11. The Connie Chung Effect

When that silly ass woman came here after the Murrah bombing and asked if we had the resources to deal with it. Damn near ran her out of town.

[loli phabay]

12. yup ive seen it before, it seems that people believe they are superior in some way to others

So they must have all the answers. It does not matter where you go in the world the same story gets played over

[fishwax]

14. yep -- she lost her CBS gig not long after that

I hadn't thought about that in quite a while. She became quite the villain in Oklahoma.

[tblue]

36. What does Connie Chung have to do with it?

Why didn't their govt have shelters for those school children? Sheesh. Stop the ugly.

[fishwax]

38. there was no ugly

just recollecting an event from decades past

[tblue]

35. I called nobody dumb.

Didn't even think it. Don't twist my words. Why did they not have shelters?

[AtheistCrusader]

19. Wrong.

City of Moore:


"On May 3, 1999, one of the most violent tornadoes ever recorded struck central Oklahoma, including the northwest part of Moore in its path. Warning for this event was outstanding - one research survey suggests that over 95% of the people in central Oklahoma knew of the tornado and its location. While many people evacuated, many others took shelter in their homes. The vast majority of these people...in fact all but three in Moore...survived! Their homes were destroyed, but the people survived. Emergency management and weather warning professionals see this as a testiment to the tornado safety rules have been advocated for years: "In homes or small buildings, go to the basement (if available) or to an interior room on the lowest floor, such as a closet or bathroom. Wrap yourself in overcoats or blankets to protect yourself from flying debris." May 3rd was an extremely unique event weatherwise. There has never been such a strong and violent tornado ever in the recorded history of the City of Moore. Statistically, there is only about a 1-2% chance of a tornado - of any size - striking Moore on any particular day during the spring. But of all tornados that do strike us (again, not very many historically), there's only a less than 1% chance of it being as strong and violent as what we experienced on May 3rd. Put another way, there's a very small likelihood of Moore being struck by a tornado. There's an extremely smaller chance of Moore experiencing another "May 3rd" type event. If we are struck again, it will very likely be by a much less intense storm. Sheltering in your residence - assuming it is a reasonably-well constructed home - is the best option. The opinion of our emergency management severe weather professionals is that community sheltering is not only not possible in our situation, but not advisable."

That's not preparedness. That's fucking suicide.

[tblue]

33. Who called anybody 'dumb'?

Just wondered why a teacher had to lie down on top of her students instead of having a shelter to take them to. Or is that what they drill?

[Justice]

15. some of the children drowned because they went to the basement - which is what the drills teach

[hack89]

16. Underground is where you need to be in a tornado

it doesn't guarantee survival but it is the safest place from flying debris.

[AtheistCrusader]

18. Plans, yes.

Practically nothing in the way of physical preparedness.

[hack89]

21. What was lacking?

what didn't they have that you would reasonably expect them to have?

[AtheistCrusader]

24. Actual shelters.

Especially in public schools and other public spaces where large groups of people congregate.

They had none, and had none as a conscious decision not to build them.

[hack89]

26. Considering no town has done what you propose

I wouldn't point to that as an indictment of Moore.

Without rehashing the pros and cons of large underground shelters, I can understand the reluctance of towns to spend millions on shelters that most likely will never be used. There are better uses for that money.

[AtheistCrusader]

29. You don't need large underground shelters.

Fuck, we used to build heavy basements in schools and other public buildings in the 50's-70's for fallout shelters. Concrete is cheap, lives are not. That town lives in an area prone to tornadoes. It has been hit many times before, it will be hit many times in the future. You don't have to build the entire school like a bomb shelter. A few strategic rooms for SHELTER with solid reinforced concrete walls/roof is sufficient.

Hell, they don't even require hurricane clips for residential roofing trusses. That's INSANE.

They spent two million on some bleachers and a press box for the public school football stadium. That's money that could have saved lives.

[wercal]

30. I believe 1999 was the first time Oklahoma City Area was hit

So the statement: "It has been hit many times before" isn't completely accurate.

I know nothing about the schools or when they were built, but I would not be suprised if they were built prior to 1999, when the people of Oklahoma City (and surrounding area) felt immune.

I have been involved in some retrofits - adding a gym to the high school with a shelter, and adding classrooms to a wing of an elementary school - made out of concrete. I'm sure these retrofits are happening in many communities...but it doesn't happen all at once.

BTW, hurrican clips are somewhat controversial. Anything that 'buttons up' a house could potentially make it fail in an explosive manner, since the pressures drop so low in a tornado. So, a flipped off roof might be better than a completely collapsed house. This debate has played itself out for years, with varying opinions on whether or not to open the windows...and I honestly don't know what the current recommendation is.

[AtheistCrusader]

31. Pressure drop doesn't do anything. Your glass windows will fail LONG before the walls or roof will.

The only controversy on that that I am aware of is, where the source of the various legends about opening your windows, or only opening the north facing windows, etc, come from. Nobody seems to know how it got started.

That area has definitely been hit before. This is a map of the nation for tornado landfalls just in the month of November, from 1959 to 2004.



I can't find the year-round, multi-decade map at the moment. But just for November, you can see about 8 direct hits in the greater OK City region.

Now, if you filter it down to magnitude, for say F4 and above, there might not be very many hits in the area, sure. (There's even one in Tacoma/Seattle on that map, my stomping grounds)

[wercal]

32. 1999 was the first F-5 in Oklahoma City, in Recorded History

I guarantee it.

It doesn't matter if they got an occassional smaller tornado...the F-5's are in a class of their own...and I can very much understand how a feeling of compacency could occur.

I wasn't around then, but my community (Topeka, KS) used to feel completely invincible to tornado damage...because they had never been hit with a big one, and they thought a particular geographical feature (Burnett's Mound) protected the city.

Then and F-5 went right over the mound and detroyed the city in 1966. Now we're not so complacent. Its just human nature.

I readily admit not knowing what the current status of windows up/windows down is...and I don't necessarily subscribe to the notion that houses explode in tornados...merely pointing out the controversy.

[AtheistCrusader]

34. I agree.

There is some controversy over the windows thing, but all sources I know of that have studied and experimented on it, have debunked it. Just one of those things that lives on and on.

On the magnitude of the Tornado, I also agree, I don't know of any very large F4+ tornadoes that have hit that area in recorded American history. When I said 'hit before' I didn't specify magnitude (and to be technical, you didn't either when you responded) but I can see why you point out that people who live there might not have appreciated the threat, based on the historical data that hadn't shown any very large tornadoes hitting that location.

I thought it would justify shelters based on even the threat of smaller tornadoes, after all, they have put in place a very good warning system in response, so that's one half of the equation. But the warning system is of questionable efficacy, if the building codes don't withstand the tornadoes, or shelters aren't readily available. Especially when the prevailing public safety instructions are to shelter in place in an interior room of a structure, rather than flee.

[wercal]

37. I listened to a weather reporter this morning

He was tracking the storm, in the field. He said he gave on-air instructions to get below ground...and if you can't do that, get in the car and run!

A very unusual recommendation...but he said it was obvious that this tornado would completely destroy a house, and sheltering in place was no good, if you couldn't get underground.

I ate lunch with a friend today, and we talked about the tornado. He lives here in Kansas...in a slab home. Even though it is plainly obvious that there is a real danger in this, he blocks it out of his mind. He doesn't think he can afford a place with a basement.

Anyway, its very easy to think 'it can't happen to me.'...and alot of people do.

A few years ago a tornado destroyed Chapman, KS. When the residents rebuilt, they wanted to put in basements. FEMA blocked this (through making it impossible to get flood insurance required by banks) since they were in a flood zone. The upper level of the house was fine, but any basement could be flooded. The residents put up quite a fight, and eventually got an exemption...that's how badly they wanted basements...after they were hit by a tornado.

[AtheistCrusader]

17. Because they don't believe it is likely to happen.

City of Moore's disaster info website:

"On May 3, 1999, one of the most violent tornadoes ever recorded struck central Oklahoma, including the northwest part of Moore in its path. Warning for this event was outstanding - one research survey suggests that over 95% of the people in central Oklahoma knew of the tornado and its location. While many people evacuated, many others took shelter in their homes. The vast majority of these people...in fact all but three in Moore...survived! Their homes were destroyed, but the people survived. Emergency management and weather warning professionals see this as a testiment to the tornado safety rules have been advocated for years: "In homes or small buildings, go to the basement (if available) or to an interior room on the lowest floor, such as a closet or bathroom. Wrap yourself in overcoats or blankets to protect yourself from flying debris." May 3rd was an extremely unique event weatherwise. There has never been such a strong and violent tornado ever in the recorded history of the City of Moore. Statistically, there is only about a 1-2% chance of a tornado - of any size - striking Moore on any particular day during the spring. But of all tornados that do strike us (again, not very many historically), there's only a less than 1% chance of it being as strong and violent as what we experienced on May 3rd. Put another way, there's a very small likelihood of Moore being struck by a tornado. There's an extremely smaller chance of Moore experiencing another "May 3rd" type event. If we are struck again, it will very likely be by a much less intense storm. Sheltering in your residence - assuming it is a reasonably-well constructed home - is the best option. The opinion of our emergency management severe weather professionals is that community sheltering is not only not possible in our situation, but not advisable."

[laundry_queen]

23. That's ridiculous

There are plenty of places in the US that have been struck several times by strong tornadoes. a 1-2% chance in the spring on any given day is NOT a low chance. That means they need to plan for one tornado for every 100 spring days. And if it's only a 1% of a EF4 or EF5 (although there is debate about that - the 1% figure is a worldwide figured - I'm guessing that figure is likely higher for tornado alley, but I can't seem to find any statistics regarding it), then that's 1 historically devastating tornado every 10,000 spring days. However, a direct hit with an EF2 or 3 that is slow moving, or with multiple vortices can be equally devastating (and at that point the chance rises to 20%)

That is really a strange statement to me, very dismissive of the risks IMO. With the increase in warning times, I think community sheltering is not only a good option, it should be mandated that there are shelters in all areas.

I live in a northern Canadian city. We had an F4 hit when I was a kid. There hasn't been another F4 since (I think there was one or 2 F0's in 30 years). Yet, at my kids' school, they do tornado drills (all the kids into interior rooms, under desks, etc) Now, I know that they do tornado drills in Moore, but when you have such an elevated risk, you'd think there would be sufficient safe rooms and shelters at the schools. I mean, there is a near zero risk any of my kids' schools will be hit by a tornado, but yet they plan for it - even though our tornado season is in July. It's kind of strange they aren't planning for it where there is a significant risk of injury and loss of life, every year. Even an EF0-EF1 can kill people who are ill prepared and an EF2 can destroy a well built home.

Interesting, they just had the mayor of Moore on CNN talking about now requiring hurricane clips on roofs in new builds. He said, and this is no shock, that they've actually looked at it in the past but didn't want to mandate it because of 'big brother and all that' but now they will probably go through with it. Oy.

[AtheistCrusader]

25. Exactly.

I'm... speechless.

[Warpy]

27. Underground shelters and hardened rooms

are expensive and school districts and homeowners in OK are often cash strapped. The ordinary plans of where to shelter in a tornado, combined with the frequent drills the children have there, will allow high survival in anything but a direct hit by an EF4-5, which was the case yesterday.

We had tornado and fire drills in the 60s in NC. You bet they had them and knew the right spots to shelter in OK.

There was extensive preparation. I'm trying to understand why you assume there was not.

There were FEMA grants available for homeowners to install hardened rooms. Unfortunately, the bureaucrats keep changing the design specifications and nothing has been done. Honestly, the grants should have been available for underground storm shelters, instead.

[tblue]

39. Why was a teacher protecting

children in a hallway with her body? That poor teacher!!!! How awful for her and those kids. I am not criticizing. I just don't understand. Is that the preparation you're telling me is in place? I just don't accept that that poor teacher should hsne nothing more than her body to use as protection from a tornado. I think she needed a safe place to take those children for all of their sakes. What about this setup is acceptable? If there wasn't another plan, then something really has to be done ASAP.

[Warpy]

41. Please note that at the Briarwood School

the same protocol saved all the kids. They didn't get a direct hit, the center of the storm passed a couple of blocks south.

This was simply not survivable above ground during a direct hit. The fact that so many kids did survive at Plaza Tower is nothing short of amazing and due 100% to their being well protected by their teachers using standard storm protocol.

This setup did save lives at both schools. It is simply not a perfect one.

[11 Bravo]

4. Between them and the teachers who protected students with their own bodies, that's a lot ...

of over-paid, public employee parasites sucking at the government teat, don't you think?

[siligut]

6. Imagine being trapped and then hearing someone searching for you

Those rescuers are angels.

[Graybeard]

7. Woman spotted her dog while on TV.

Saw this happen, live, on one of the morning talk shows

An elderly woman was being interviewed on TV about the terrible experience and she related that she prayed that her dog was safe. Just then the reporter and woman saw a little face peeking out from the rubble.

The little doggy had heard and recognized his owners voice and decided then that it was safe to come out.

Needless to say tears abounded. ( I had to reach for the Kleenex. )

[siligut]

8. I watched the video here on DU

The change in her voice and demeanor when Toto responded cleansed my eyes and nose too.

[Phentex]

28. It's all she needed!

It was her most precious possession. I was so happy to see this!

[tblue]

40. Oh how wonderful!!!

Thanks for telling us! I will go look for the video.

[sarge43]

10. Blessings on their house. n/t

[HappyMe]

13. That's wonderful news.

Wow. Firefighters and rescuers never cease to amaze me.
Good to hear some good, positive news.

[Quantess]

20. Great news X 132! (no text)

[fayhunter]

22. I'm always thankful for

the people among us who run toward and not away from other people's needs.